Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 201: Margaret Cho

Episode Date: January 10, 2023

New Year. New Season. Same old Ding-Dongs. Andy and Nick open the show with a bit of intellectual foreplay, kissy-boy updates, and cake sitting fetishists; but most importantly, we got San Francisco native and multi-hyphenate comedian, Margaret Cho! She's a lovely and deeply endearing person with stories that'll make your head spin: from kinky sex to network sitcoms... is there anything she can't do? Oh yeah, she's also on tour! Do yourself a solid and see her live show: margaretcho.com And don't forget to catch the band in a town near you andyfrasco.com/tour Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy Frasco & The U.N. (Feat Little Stranger)'s new song, "Oh, What A Life" on iTunes, Spotify  Produced by Andy Frasco, Joe Angelhow, & Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Arno Bakker

My first student athletes. We are going to call them the Twin Towers, boys. How are you feeling about this? Incredible. How are you feeling? This is a life-changing opportunity. Okay, so what do you need from me to make sure you feel good on the court? So we are going to become the world-saving college athletes, and we are going to wear an Andy Frasco's World-Saving Podcast warm-up for every single game. We're going to look sexy as hell in it, and then we're going to fuck people up. Let's fucking go. Okay, so tell them the college you guys are at. We are going to look sexy as hell in it. Yep. And then we're going to fuck people up. Let's fucking go.

Okay, so tell them the college you guys are at. We are at the University of Mount Union. I need you guys fucking rocking. We're going to dunk on people. I want you to dunk. You guys are seven. How tall are you guys? 6'10".

6'10". I need you guys dunking on motherfuckers. I need you out there. I want your dicks on their foreheads, okay? We got it. Let's go. Let's start the show. Guys, watch out.

Frasco is in the sports business. That was actually good for having seen each other for a long time. And we're back. Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. Where have you been? I've been everywhere. New Year's, bro. All right, I'll tell you all about it.

I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our minds? How's our hearts? How's we staying out of trouble, Nick? Speaker 3 and I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our hearts? How's we staying out of trouble, Nick? Speaker 2 and I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our minds? How's our hearts? Speaker 3 and I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our minds? How's our hearts? Speaker 2 and I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our minds? How's our hearts? Speaker 3 and I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our hearts? How's we staying out of trouble, Nick?

Speaker 2 and I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our minds? How's our hearts? How's we staying out of trouble, Nick? Speaker 3 and I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our minds? How's our hearts? How's we staying out of trouble, Nick? Speaker 2 and I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our hearts? How's our hearts? How's we staying out of trouble, Nick?. Actually, I was at a show and he's like, you kind of have some like low key steez in the way I dress where it's like, you don't realize it, but then you kind of look at my outfit and you're like, Oh, this

is put together a little bit. Isn't it? This isn't an accident. You know, people think like you just, your type of duty just rolls out of bed. Oh, this shirt. But then you actually put some thought into your, you know. Nice black oversized t-shirt. Some joggers. I'm going to clap up to you. Way to go. They're my 90s. And I'm rocking this because they have our new gummy spring in the store. Oh, yeah. I thought I read Cush Club.

Oh, yeah. The Cush Club. I love Cush Club. World-saving gummies. They're delicious. I forgot to bring them over. Dialed in gummies. It said, you know what?

We're going to try this out. And we sold out on them. Let's go. We're selling them out. So buy them if you're what? We're going to try this out. And we sold out on them. Let's go. We're selling them out. So buy it if you're in Denver. And they're Lakers colors. Lakers colors. I like how those are just Andy Frasco colors. I feel like soon the Lakers are going to have enough material to sue you. Right?

Probably. I don't think they'll sue me. I think they'll probably give me a cease and desist. Please stop like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, LeBron and AD. Yeah. Westbrook. So every once in a while. He's playing really good.

I'm proud of him. He's taking his ego out of there. He got me a fantasy championship one year, so I like him. I know. I know. Respect that. What did you do for Christmas? I didn't.

I chilled at home. Me and Julie went out to eat at a nice restaurant. You guys have like steamy sex? I don't comment on my sex life on the podcast. Mistletoe? No. Do you believe in that stuff? Do I believe in what?

Santa? Just like those like, oh, we should have sex by mistletoe. Oh, no. I don't believe in that stuff? Do I believe in what? Santa? Just like those like oh we should have sex by mistletoe Oh no I don't believe in Santa Claus anymore Why? I don't know better around you long enough I'm starting to turn into a Hanukkah boy I hung out with some old hippies In South Carolina because basically I didn't go home

In Chucktown? In Chucktown they're talking about Santa Claus is like some I want to go to Charlestown. Like some Indian tribe or something, or African tribe or something. No, he's Turkish. St. Nicholas is Turkish. He's a real guy.

There was a St. Nick. Okay. He's not Santa Claus, but there was a St. Nicholas. He's a Turkish guy. Oh. I don't know that much about him. And they said they were taking hallucinogens, so that's why they thought the reindeer were flying and stuff.

They were taking someinogens so that's why they thought the reindeer were flying and stuff they were taking some like weird turkish yeah and then they gave you a speech about how john mayer is not as good as jerry garcia that kinda did you have fun though in charl i want to go back to charleston and play some horn i didn't go home and see my family i was uh you know i'm going through this you went to thanksgiving oh we're talking about the breakup on the pod now oh man i don't want to talk about it you brought it up i've been reading this book called attached oh god yeah who wrote it um just these psychiatrists and um you know same dude from men are from mars and women are from Venus. Oh, that guy? So I've been like in my feelings because this has been like a weird, this is the first relationship I've ever been in.

So I read this book. I'm saying like, am I damaged? Like, why can't I keep a relationship? Why can't I keep anything going in my life besides my music? And I don't think that's true. I think you have tons of relationships you've kept going. You're right. Well, that's the one kind of relationship.

Yeah. But like John's been in the band for 15 years. You're right. That's more complicated than any relationship you've kept going you're right well just one kind of relationship yeah but like john's been in the band for 15 years you're right that's more complicated than any relationship you've ever had with any woman you got a point you got a point but they're saying like how how types of people attract and i am an avoidant like i avoid when people get close and I am an avoidant like I avoid when people get close yeah to my so sort of yeah when I am in an intimate relationship with someone they call it the anxious there's like avoidant anxious anxious and secure over these books everybody why is everybody the self diagnosis of console no you don't you broke up it happens you're a guy and you broke up with a chick and it happens.

Okay. It wasn't like you did anything stupid. Things just run out of gas. You're right. Some cars last three years. Some cars left 30 years. Some cars are classics. Some cars are lemons.

You know? Wow. That's a pretty good actually. I fucking dig that. I just thought of that. You know? Oh my God. I'm clap to you.

Okay. That makes sense. Whatever. Now, maybe you don't need a car for a while, you know? Maybe you can just Uber around. Oh my God, I missed you. I can't have these conversations with the band. Why? Because they're what? Too judgy?

No, because they're all married and they all just stick it out. Yeah, but I'm like that. I stick it out. I've been with the same chick for, it'll be 10 years next year. I know, but you've never fought. You guys never fight guys don't fight but not like fight about nothing crazy just normal stuff yeah usually just me being in my own little world too much maybe yeah oh really like what oh i like this i mean no i mean just whatever i'm not the most present guy either but i think she likes that because then she can go read. She read 70 books last year.

What do you think about? Did you see her best books list on Instagram? No. She made her top book. She's the best. She's way too good for you. No. She's still a person.

Oh. Yeah. Okay. Respect. Okay. Respect. What'd you do in new year buffalo i went to chicago first hung out with bayless and their family god they think i love bayless's fam their kids love the out of me he lets you in his home it's amazing and and i could be the uncle i'm like shooting i'm sure you don't have real nieces and nephews like i'm an uncle over there yeah they don't with me my nieces and yeah what's up with that they're not like that i feel like if you were

my uncle and i was a 12 year old boy yeah how old is he well he's three and she's not i thought he was like okay but like if i was nine and my uncle was you i'd be going crazy about i don't know i think it's a little bit mixture of your sister my sister maybe talking or just like agreeing when they don't like say i don't want to hang out with andy i'm like well she should say well too bad you're gonna hang out if i was nine you'd be like my dream person to hang out with what you know i think it is i took kira to my concert too early in her life oh like three or four and i think i scared the shit out oh yeah it's like when you watch the wizard wizard of oz too young she I scared the shit out of her. Oh, yeah. It's like when you watch The Wizard of Oz too young. She was, yeah.

You know what I mean? You know how The Wizard of Oz is actually like a really good story, and it's like sort of, you know, has a good message, but if you're like for the flying monkeys and like, it's a scary fucking movie, actually. Yeah, yeah. She probably thinks I'm like a demon child. So maybe Wizard of Oz-er. I think I Wizard of Oz.

Yeah, that's a good point. I'm going to ask my sister that. Is Wizard of Ozz your oldest child you're the wicked witch you're supposed to yeah you showed her the monkeys too young i don't know so yeah i went to um so i i went to my you know the god i'm the godfather over there the self-proclaimed godfather um and i hung out with them we watched movies and stuff and then I got to think what I oh that's what I want to talk to you about I got to tell you something what I had I've been doing cocaine more oh yeah we don't like that I don't like either I'm finally off I'm off the road and I don't do it but I did I think but this is what i was saying like why do i want it why do i want cocaine when i'm sad because it's been like two weeks of this because it's like a upper but that doesn't make me i don't know he never made me like oh like i could see molly or

something i see other people who get euphoric maybe you just did it a couple times you're like oh yeah this is fun don't do cocaine you're too yeah no you're kind of like too cool right famous right now for cocaine. That's for like people more around my level. You know what I mean? Like if I die, no one's really going to care. You know what I mean?

But people love people. People are relying on you to make money. You can't be doing cocaine. I know. And I was doing it, I think cause I was sad, but I mean, that's not,

it was the end of the tour. Yeah. Granted, it was the end of the tour. Then I went to Christmas in Chicago. I was off, but I was doing some tutors with some friends going out. That'll happen in Chicago. You know, it was just negative 20. What do you do? You go do tutors and fucking have a, I've been to Chicago, Jameson, you know, then I got to Charleston where the cocaine was there as well. So I started, I did it.

It's everywhere. That stuff, isn't it? It's fucking everywhere. But also, I was also sad. I was vulnerable. And the tour got off, and I was depleted. And I couldn't stay up to go hang out. So it was a whole mixture of things that made me on this little bender. But now that I'm home, I've been home for four days, and I finally sleep, and I'm like,

why the fuck did I do that? It's not good for you. It's not even fun. It's not fun my my nostrils no it sucks the risk reward not good yeah and i was i was like i couldn't get because i was already also sick from the everyone's got that just make sure someone make sure like two or three people around you do it first yeah like when a king would have his people test for poisons taste tester for the food that's also scary too like people are just like they're trusting their drug dealers that there's no fun there's one person you can trust it's a cocaine dealer there's some of the most trustworthy people i wonder if i know any cocaine dealers that i

trust yeah there's one guy i trust yeah but like that sounds like still a huge you know massive about cocaine i trust him. But also, why are we talking about this? I don't know. Because I was sad and I spent the, you know, I was in Charleston. So I finally,

because my house has been rented and forever and I finally got it back on the 1st of January and I slept for four days. Really? Yeah, I came over the other night

with Kyle and you were so out of it. Yeah. It wasn't like your usual out of it. It was like a tired out of it. Now I'm looking at Instagram out of it. I was depleted, man. This whole tour, this whole year was fucking big for us. Yeah. But you sold a lot of tickies. I know I'm proud of our band. That was a big year. I like that. Good job guys. We worked fucking our ass off. Bo you worked your ass off. My guy. Harder than all of you. Hell yeah. He does what you do and then extra stuff. Hell yeah. And he's got a better body than all of you too. He I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go.

I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go.

I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go.

I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm proud of you. I love it, dude. When it rains, it pours. Let's go. It's a good looking guy. He stands up straight. He's got a nice body. Look at the how he's up here. How was your New Year's Eve show? It was crazy. Buffalo. I had this girl text me the night before like, hey, there's

this thing going around with cake fetishes. Oh, I saw the video of this. So yeah. She was like, people are sitting on cakes and people are turned on by them. Like, that's fucking weird. So I started going into this, you know, this loophole of watching all this porn where women are just sitting on cakes and shit. I'm like, damn, this is pretty intense.

And people are like chatting. Nice to see a cake where they're not sexualizing children for once, you know? At least they're keeping it wholesome. Yeah. So she's like, I'm like a bur burlesque dancer i'll do a splits on the cake i'm like yeah it i'm down so we i told her to send it center to bow like and i didn't think it was going to happen she made a cake she made a case she made a cake she baked it yeah i'm sure i would go store-bought there shout out to casual hand send this up it's like that's a store-bought situation yeah no but it was

really nice and there was like 40 there was like 40 candles on it so we put it on for birthday song today's my birthday and the cake is on and then it was just lighting and she's burlesquing and i didn't know she had like googly eyes on her ass yeah i saw that and then she got on stage so she was like when the when the last song when the last note hits all through the splits but i was like kind of already on mushrooms and like adrenaline from selling out that big ass room so i wasn't like i was kind of dazing off at the end of the song they're like blow out the candles because she was about to get burned what if she got burned oh i'm like because i was thinking like damn is she really this good where she could just like do the splits and all the candles get burned out and stuff she was going to put it out with

her flesh yeah yeah she goes fast i've seen some crazy circus like that yeah she went fast enough it could happen so she's like blow it out i'm like oh so i blew it out and then she put it out splits and it was amazing and it was like it was so clean and never none of the frosting was anywhere on the keyboard it was straight in the vagina dude it's the cleanest gimmick you had it was a great gimmick i can't even get that cleanness when i kiss floyd on the mouth you guys still kissing how's that going a little bit he gave me he gave me a new year's eve kiss that was sweet i liked it i think we should leave i think i think i think it's over i think we're over the kissing thing yeah well you know it's over. I think we're over the kissing thing. Yeah, well, you know, it's also the boys.

I can't like, you know, go to big something and like start kissing them on the mouth. They're not going to fall for it. Fall for it? Don't say fall for it. It sounds like you're... It sounds bad. Not like that.

Your Honor, it's going to be... Not like that. Your Honor, he said they are falling for it. Your Honor. Not like that. Yeah. I don't know. But, you know, Floyd, but he's like, he's like,

you know what's sweet about Floyd too? I was like, you know, I just been super sad last couple weeks. I was on tour. I was doing these shows and like, I've never had to break up with someone. And so he's like, you know, we were talking one day. It was like 2 a.m. We're about to get on the bus to get to the hotel yeah you know yeah yeah i'm floyd

you could call me sometime you're gonna call me if you ever need to talk i was like floyd thank you if you ever need to just call me just call the island and they'll come find me why does he sound like sean connery that's carter he has like that low that's kind of how he sounds like i even forgot to even so he you know so he got me through it a little bit. Speaking of killing things, um, dialed in gummies, killing it with the gummies. They sponsored this show and it's season. I can't believe it's season six, season six, nice. The devil's number. So dotting gummies is, sponsoring the whole season season six thank you doubting gummies get us get some powder delicious they're solventless they're homogenized and they have cool artwork and they're strength specific and they're pretty affordable oh yeah they are pretty

affordable yeah yeah so good i mean they're a little more expensive than some other gummies but they're also two to three times better so you know who else um likes weed what who margaret cho she's on the show tonight oh wow big show tonight margaret cho it was a great conversation i just did it this morning yeah she's like you know she's had like a nice 30-year career in comedy oh yeah she's dealt with she's a wild and she's we talked about her sex life we talked about the dominatrix how she likes to get she wasn't roped up i thought though yeah we talked about her sex life. We talked about the dominatrix, how she likes to get roped up. She was a dominatrix I thought though. Yeah. We talked about her heroin addiction.

And you talked about, did you talk about her having a sitcom in the nineties? Yeah. That had to be wild. Like people, if like you're younger now, like the cultural impact you would have as a comedian, if you had your own sitcom was tenfold what it is now. Cause there's already three channels. Well no, there was, this is the nineties. This isn't like, No, she said there was only three channels. Well, no. This is the 90s. This isn't like... No, she said there was only three channels. Network channels. Yeah, you're right.

I mean, cable existed, but you're right. She was saying Fox was only the weekends. Yeah. Fox was like started in the late 80s. Married with Children, I think, was their first show. But like back then, 20 to 30 million people. And now if you have a sitcom like that, it's like on Netflix and it gets canceled after three episodes.

Yeah. So that was a great conversation. You're going to love this interview with Margaret Cho. I'm here for a couple months, buddy. Me and you. And we should tell them we changed the format a little bit.

So every month, we're going to do three interviews. And then just me and Andy. And then at the end of every month, we'll do a recap of the month for the whole episode, Nick and I. Yeah. So three interviews a month, and you get Nick and I. And we'll be opening the whole time.

And we're going to have better guests, you know? All right. I'm out. I'm done. Yeah, me too. All right. Bye. All right.

Next up on the interview hour, we have Margaret Cho. Yes. Big time actress. Big time actress, big time comedian, big start to season six of the podcast. Margaret was amazing. She was very honest about her addictions, her love life. She used to date Quentin Tarantino. She was on a huge show that got canceled over some drama and it was kind of bullshit why it got canceled over some drama, and it was kind of bullshit why it got canceled, and I'm Team Margaret on it. But I think you're going to really love this interview.

She's a legend. And to start Season 6 with this, I'm excited. So ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy Margaret Cho. How you doing, Margaret? I'm doing great. There's a bomb cyclone outside, but I'm doing really well. Where are you living right now? I'm in Los Angeles.

Yeah. But let's talk about... I got so much to talk to you about. I'm a musician and kind of am a free spirit, seems like you. How hard is it to be authentic with your art when you've been chastised in the past for being honest with how you are as a person?

It's sort of like you gotta just turn that off. You have to turn off the sort of critical voice because the problem is is the critical voice is really the major enemy to art because we just shut it down no matter uh what like we shut down our artistic um intention because we're just like oh nobody's gonna like this well and now i realize I'm actually the ideal audience. I'm going to like this. So every art thing I do, I try to reframe it like I'm the primary audience. And so that leaves me a little freer to know because I have sort of stopped criticizing

my own intention, my own work. And then, you know, that helps a lot. Because I think once you do that, once you have the freedom to do that, then you can sort of do anything artistically. How long did it take you to get to that point in your soul? That's a lifetime. That's a lifetime's worth of work. And lately, it's gotten a lot easier.

I think silencing that inner critic, it takes a lifetime and it's really, really hard, especially when you grow up in a sort of very narrow confines of identity. Like, so I'm, you know, an Asian American woman. When you're like an immigrant, you're really encouraged not to be seen because you're sort of un-American-ness is so visible. So you're kind of like,

your silence is really encouraged in really subtle ways, but it's strong over time. So that is something that I have to constantly fight, that kind of upbringing and that kind of silencing. Because it's really important to create as an artist, that's our whole life's work and so we can't conquer uh our our own voice of like disagreement we can't do anything so that's the first thing is to deal with that yeah you know it's like when people is that the reason why you got into art in the first place is because everyone was categorizing you as someone who needs to shut the fuck up and just live. Yeah. Maybe.

I think it's also like, I mean, it was just something that I always knew that I would do. I always knew I was going to be a comedian even before I knew what the profession was or understood. It's almost like um i just chose it before like um when you're a korean and you're 100 days old they set like all these things around you they put like a a spoon or a fork or chopsticks and then or a pen or money and what you pick or paint brush what you pick sort of dictates what you're going to be in your life. So I got a pen. Oh. So I was going to be a writer.

So I think it's like that was something like I just knew that was what I was going to do. Not that I was necessarily encouraged to do that, of course, as a kid. But your internal purpose for me was already built in. I already knew this was what was going to be my career. And how hard is it to establish your internal purpose when maybe your parents didn't want you to do this? Were your parents supportive? They were supportive later. They just didn't understand what it was.

They don't have a tradition of stand-up comedy in Korea. They have a long tradition of stand-up comedy in Korea they have a long tradition of stand-up comedy in Japan oh really um in Japan stand-up comedy has been performed for um centuries actually a form of it but they didn't really have that um in Korea they have like satirical plays, they have kind of like more of like theater that's based on fables. It's always very class based. Like there's like this incredible creature that eats rich people. And so it's like that.

There's like a theater tradition. There's like always like it's always class based. Everybody's reversed. Like the monks are always really like sexually promiscuous. It's all this stuff like going on, but it's all theater based. Instead of comedy in Japan, it's like really just one narrator. Yeah. Telling the story.

it's like really just one narrator yeah telling the story so um i think they just didn't understand actually like the the frame of it or what it was um but when i started to do television then they really were like excited so and i started i became successful pretty early still in my late teens so how old were you i had an easy how old old were you when it started taking off for you? Probably about 18. 18? No shit. 18, 19. Yeah, I started to do very well. Do you think... My parents, I don't know. I started my career really early too. And my parents didn't start seeing my value until I started making money. Were your parents like that? Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Because that was a concrete assessment of success. That was where they could understand that this is actually going somewhere. Did you believe in those values? Absolutely. I mean, I think that's totally a legitimate way of assessing what you're doing. Although, not always. Yeah.

Not always. Some people never make money, you know, throughout their career and that's okay too. I guess it just depends what your priorities are. Yeah, you know, looking at... And the society that you're living in. True. And looking in retrospect, the art you're doing when you're 18, do you... What's that dog? That's your dog?

This is Lucia. Hey, Lucia. How you doing? What about now that you look back on the art you were doing when you were 18, are you cringe about it or do you still think it was great for the time of your life? Oh, I thought it was great. To me, it's really encouraging. I think I'm better in just unaffected by society. I'm really a fan of my younger work. I think I'm really punk rock. I'm like really a fan of my younger work. I think I'm like really punk rock. I'm really into it. I really like it. I yeah, I feel like cringy is my cringy period is probably more like 2010s where I was really like in a weird color wheel where I was mixing warm and bright color like warm and cold color. Like when you mix like a pink and orange, there's a problem.

No, I hear that. So what were you doing in 2010 that you felt that you regretted? I think it was just like the time period. I think it's the time period. I think we thought we were in the future, but we were really not. Yeah. So there's a, I thought I was like really an adult, but I was really not. So that's more,

to me, that's, that's more cringy because it's just like, it's more the era. That's the cringy. Yeah. So when you're, when your show got canceled, did you feel like you didn't have an identity anymore?

Did you feel like you had to go full raunchiness? How was that era going into the 2010s for you? Well, that was like... When I was doing television then then it was like 1994. So it was a different, almost a totally different era. But I really became a better comedian from doing television and getting massively like disappointed by the industry as it was, you know, so there's a lot of benefit to disappointment in art, because you can like, go back and realize, okay, well, what's really important to me, it's like the self expression, or fitting into a kind of role that's set aside by mainstream entertainment, which, you know, now it's a lot broader because in 1994, they didn't even have cable, really.

All that stuff was really new. And like HBO just sort of started it and they only had three networks and Fox was only available, I think, on the weekends or like sometimes very like rare. So, you know, we really don't remember how limited television was. It was all about indie filmmaking. Which to me was my inspiration.

The films that I really loved like Reservoir Dogs. Yeah. that i really loved um like reservoir dogs yeah um and uh you know like all of those really early great indie films which i think are so important yeah you know you talk about like the movies that really inspired you and then you you were with someone you know you're with quinn tarantino for a little bit too who made these amazing movies what did you guys learn in the process of art when you're dating quinn well he um it was like it was really like a being with a king and then whenever uh he would see we would like go out and we would see john travolta it was like a king meeting the pope it was like the new king meeting the pope i mean that level of like show business doesn't really exist anymore which um it's too bad because i think there was a kind of

like mystique about these old movies i mean i'm from like kind of a weird old, like the very remnants of old Hollywood, like the real old guard, like Milton Berle. Yeah. Like those early days of like going to the Friars Club and don't you dare park in Milton Berle's parking space. That kind of stuff, which I think is like, it's very different. You know, now you could park in anybody's parking space. No, it's so true. And you it intimidating hanging out with all... Because you weren't a slouch

either. You were badass. You were a top of your game in the 90s too. What was that like? Were you intimidated by all that fame around you? No, I think it was just like such a baby. I didn't really understand. And I was just watching it unfold and seeing it was really interesting. So to me, it was like kind of constantly being in the space of like, is this actually really happening? Is this real? Or is this some kind of a dream? But I really appreciate it. And I think it's something that like, oh, I should actually write a book. I think I have to wait till everybody really does die. I'm really trying to stay alive

so that I can write the definitive tell-all showbiz memoir. You know, it's like, it was when, you know, it's like cocaine and drugs are glamorous, you know? Now it's like psychedelics are glamorous. When you're going through your phases, how was dealing with the alcoholism and dealing with the addictions? Was it something everyone was dealing with? It didn't really affect you? Really?

No. That stuff to me is much more of a solitary thing like i'm not a partier per se i'm really like in my house alone od'd with dead with my body bloating and my cats eating me like it's like really like i'm definitely not a um i can't do cocaine i have a deviated septum which i i i didn't do cocaine to get i i just have one i was born with it so i could never do cocaine i don't like uppers i'm more of like um heroin fentanyl not fentanyl because it was that was out before i got um sober i was out after i got super so it's good because i probably would just die yeah especially now with all this i yeah you can't you can't

really do drugs anymore because you'll just die like no matter what you get it's going to have like fentanyl in it yeah it's insane it's you have to have a really high tolerance if you're going to try anything so don't even start anybody trying to do drugs now. You can't. It's too hard. But it's like, I don't do drugs in a social manner. So it's not fun for anybody. It's just, it's not fun, certainly for the people who find my rotting skeleton. Right. I don't think it's a good idea. Did any of your friends find you od'd like who found you when you're passed out on your floor no no i would always like immediately um kind of try to like wake up and get out of it or um for some reason i never completely died which is good but it's like um yeah the way that i quote unquote party is more akin to that

than it is but that's also my generation too like that that's more like the grunge era of doing drugs it's really not very romantic yeah you know what what do you think made you go inward with the with uh you know those inward type of drugs um i i just like that kind of experience i think um or like i like marijuana i like so if you sort of either like um uppers or downers i think if you're like if you're a drug person in general. I never really got into psychedelics. The one psychedelic that I did do that was so intense was DMT. And it only lasts for about five minutes. Yeah. But it feels like hours.

And when you do DMT, you realize that time is really a social construct. Yeah. We don't have... We are just told what time is. And when you do TMT, you're like, oh, time actually isn't real. It's just something that we've all agreed exists. It's so true. And it's so trippy. Give me your TMT experience.

Well, I was with two of my friends and um we did it and then uh they all turned into giant vines like their bodies turned green and they were like 30 feet tall and they grew like all these like leaves and stems and then their heads were huge blooms of tulips that just totally um bloomed and pollinated each other as they were talking yeah and i'm like looking at them and like and the whole experience was five minutes i didn't turn into a flower they turned into i was the same they turned into total uh flower beings that were talking to me it was so visually um arresting but not scary um but just i've never seen uh anything like that like hallucinogenics don't affect me visually the only other time they did was once in the 80s in san francisco i think i uh it may have been um peyote or something something like that or mescal i don't

know something that was i'm not not sure exactly what it was um and uh there was a mastodon in the kitchen, which is really unusual. Did it scare you or were you amused by it? No, I was just like, there's actually a mastodon in here. Do you think we should stay in here? They're like, actually, it's not there. It's extinct. It's not possible for it to be there. Okay.

It's not possible for it to be there. Okay. And so it's that kind of stuff. I think the rarity of the visual experience, you know, to me when people say like, oh, it's like, you see all this stuff. I never really saw anything like with LSD. I never saw traces. Yeah. Because when I was doing a lot of acid,

people would look at the TV and pull the static out of the TV. Yeah. And I never saw that. Yeah, I take a lot of hallucinogens too, and I never got there. Even with DMT, I never got to that point where the aliens are pulling me into the spaceship. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, there's something about DMT where, for me, I think, it was that one time

was just so incredible. But it also made me not want to revisit it. Yeah. I don't think that's a good idea. It seems like you don't get scared a lot about stuff like that. Has there ever been a point in your life where you're truly scared? One time I was living in a

house in Atlanta. I was working on a show. This is in the 2010s. And the house that I was living in, it was like a really weird kind of suburban tract home, but it was like a really weird like uh kind of suburban tract home but it was seriously haunted i think i always felt very uneasy there and uh one night somebody got in bed with me and i could feel the weight i could feel the covers flipping over and i could feel the weight of somebody getting and it could have been a dream also, but it felt so real. And by the time I got the courage to turn around,

there was nothing there. But it was so like the weirdness of feeling the weight of a body, of just something very casually getting in bed with you. That was the only time really, I think. Oh God, do you believe in all that? Do you believe in spiritual stuff yeah yeah yeah for sure for sure um my house now is reportedly haunted my house is 100 years old well it's

reportedly haunted i haven't experienced anything but um the koreans often believe like there's like a your ancestors are always sort of there and then so like the spiritual component component of our culture is a very alive and that we have death days that we celebrate along with like people who have died we have their birthdays we celebrate and then certain times like you will create like banquets for dead people uh with all of their favorite food but you don't have to prepare all the food what you do is you take like um paper towels and then put pin the food around the towel so it looks like there's a big pile of food yeah because they're not going to eat it right so it's like you could do like fake food or you can buy like for chinese things like you can buy like a fake iphone and burn it and then uh like when joan rivers died i went to hong kong and i bought um a bunch of

jewelry and cookies and i bought her a fake yorkie and i went to the temple and i offered it to her so that she would have like a nice handbag and a dog and all the stuff so you know you you make an offering and you like take it to the temple and they send it so there's like full stores that you can buy um paper items for the dead and then what my favorite gay uh a Cantonese pop star who died in the 90s. He was just this amazing actor and singer. He had died before the invention of iPhones. So I bought him the newest iPhone paper version, and I drew a grinder on it.

And I burned it in the temple so that he would have a grinder in the afterlife. I fucking love it. I burned it in the temple so that he would have a grinder in the afterlife. I fucking love it. I'm clapping to that. I'm clapping to that. You talk about Joan being so important to you. How important was that relationship with you? Were you guys close?

Yes. She was so... I mean, I really admired her and I was really in awe of her all the time. And I still... I really miss her. I think she would have had a lot of fun, especially now. I think especially during the pandemic, she would have great masks and great pandemic fashion and had a good time at home and yeah i think uh you know um yeah her her voice uh was really impactful for me as um you know a woman who was successful later in life and a comedian and crass. There's just so much about her that I really admire. And she was a good friend and somebody who just impressed me

all the time. So I really love her. What type of advice did she give you when you're going through your downfall? Not downfall, but during those early years where you felt like you were being misunderstood? She would just always say, it will get better when I got older, that they will always want what I have to offer the older that I get. And that now is when we shine. those of us who were ugly in high school now we get to shine and i'm like who are you calling ugly you and she was like you know what i mean i'm like no i don't and so she was really encouraging about how like

you can get to a place of really um achieving more uh older that you get. If you're a comedian, it's really better to be older. It's the opposite of young, ingenue actresses who don't have that experience or getting old in front of the camera. For us, it's much better. So she's right about that. What about sexuality? Did she teach you how to be open with your sexuality? she's right about that. What about sexuality? Did she teach you how to be open with your sexuality?

No, I think that that was more, um, the, probably the gay men in my life. Really? They were very, um, you know,

just very, uh, open to experience. And, uh, really they were outlaws like to be gay and tattooed and in throuples in the 70s was so outlaw. Yeah. You know?

And so it was the gay men that I grew up around who really were so incredibly vocal vocal about their sexuality political about who they were that was really i think really stunning so that i'm really lucky that way yeah and growing up in san francisco it was still hard to be open as a gay man or gay woman well not necessarily but in certain avenues yes like san francisco is actually um in a lot of ways very conservative which is super weird yeah because it's an old port city which is like heavily um it's it's a very um it's very italian american which a lot of Italian American culture is very patriarchal, very masculine, very masculine identified. It's kind of an old boys club.

And then there's a lot of old money in San Francisco as well. Right. So you have this underneath the sort of like celebratory, artistic um hippie side there is a very uh Commerce driven um very conservative uh maybe less politically conservative but more fiscally conservative and you see that now actually a lot with the the tech bro side of San Francisco yeah which is Which is very like, you know, they're not necessarily, they're not social conservatives necessarily. They just want to make money, which,

and the sort of the fiscal conservatism sort of overrides everything. Right. So it is a kind of, San Francisco is a very, it's a very interesting place because the old money side of it always sort of renews itself and comes back. So that kind of very heavily driven sort of, it's like an immigrant trying to prove their Americanness and prove their financial prowess as a source of pride and definitely masculine definitely masculine identified so that's what i see san

francisco as do you think um the new money that's moving into san francisco is changing san francisco for the worst i oh yeah i mean it's totally different it's more not changing it because of um anything but that it's pricing out the weirdos. Right. That's what I'm saying. How do you ruin an art city that is such cultured with art and you just throw these guys who just like to have missionary sex and cum in a sock? Well, but they also really love things in their ass.

So that's still the kind of side that's very very uh wild and um you know there's still a side of san francisco that is really crazy and um i think that's always going to be there i think that's also whenever there's a lot of money there's a lot of uh lawlessness which i think that's also kind of great yeah so that adds to the kind of experience of decadence you know which i which i really admire um yeah you know what what type of lawlessness did you like more san francisco lawlessness or this hollywood this old hollywood lawlessness and i think san francisco uh the craziness of San Francisco, like in the second tech boom. So this would be like 2008 to like 2012, 13.

Yeah. There was a lot of like stuff. I would go to big parties at the Armory, which is where kink.com was based. So they had bought this like 158 year old building and put porn studios there and um they i would go to parties there and they i would just roller skate because there was like uh it was all linoleum the whole building so you could just skate the whole building probably skateboard down the stairs they're all marble and um there was just like horror and happening in every different room and there was a river running under the building and then in the under the

building that's where they would do oh i don't like it they would do the things where they would hang on hooks from their back. Ooh. You know those kind of people? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The extreme blade-piercing people. Yeah. Where they would be like... It was so scary to me.

Because they would be like this rushing river of water. And then hanging from hooks. Oh, please. From their back. In leather lingerie. i'm like no and they're asking me do you want to do you want to play with i'm like no yeah and roller skate away really it was like really scary yeah that's got to be scary like what was that do you think that was the most intense thing you saw at these parties? Or were you seeing like... Yeah, I mean, then there was just like so much cocaine because they're so rich. And

then everybody lived on the top floor. So because that was the most... They had like heating and like hot water and... So like all had their oil paintings in front of their rooms this is a huge building this is like a a huge huge like municipal building it's like a it was an i think part of um the the entryway i think they actually built film part of star wars I think they actually built film part of Star Wars when they had like this huge archway where they could film where they I don't know if it's where the Millennium Falcon is. But I think they film part of different crazy sci fi movies there. And yeah, but it's a huge place. So they would have their oil paintings in the top floor. And in every room, there was something happening all the time.

And now I think it's like a shopping complex or something. But it was really... I just would go and roller skate between the rooms and see different things happening. Did you ever get addicted to sex? Like you got addicted to heroin? Did you ever get addicted to sex, like you got addicted to heroin? No, because I really think that there's part of me that's deeply asexual. Yeah.

So I think that I use, I look at sex as a kind of way to get some kind of validation, is like not for it's not for pleasure it's for uh some kind of um social uh gain not necessarily financial gain but more like um a credit in terms of like oh this makes me cool yeah if i'm in involved in this this makes me cool yeah and it's actually not really it's pleasurable for me um it's it's strangely never been it's probably why i like drugs is because drugs sort of made sex more possible for me to enjoy because I was just high and then whatever was happening was happening. But yeah, I didn't really, I don't know, like I have like not been sexually active for a while and it's been really great. It feels really right. I feel that way too. But it feels good to not be.

It's so fascinating. So what about god what got you into like dominatrix and stuff if you didn't really enjoy the sex itself like what was it what were you into with the domination domination is not sexual like domination is really um for me like that's really just it's technical it's skill it's also getting into somebody's head it's um to me it's it's the most um it's like playing chess with somebody's phobias yeah and uh uh insecurities and uh all the way to terrors like you're you're you're sort of taking all the sort of like little pieces of their psyche and moving them around. I think a really satisfying relationship I had with was the young woman who just before the pandemic who looked exactly like me, but she was about 30 years younger than me. And so everybody thought she was my daughter, which is so embarrassing.

But she and I had this thing where we were like okay pain only so we're just gonna do like wrote where we're trying to learn how to do like japanese bondage and stuff and and like suspension and of course like it was we were teaching uh we're being taught by midori who's a very important umibari Japanese bondage instructor. She's a really, she's like the master of all masters when it comes to rope bondage. So we were taking classes from her and then everything shut down. So I think I'm sure that, you know, like,

we can continue, but it was really fun because it was all about the sort of mastery of learning knots and it's super dorky. It's like, so not sexual to me. It's like really like, for me, it's super dorky it's like so not sexual to me it's like really like for me it's just about um learning a skill which i think is really interesting yeah you're like a sexual sailor yeah it's like sailor it's like knots it's like suspension it's like engineering it's cool is there any like sexual sexual partner through these dominatrix period where they just really fucked with your head and really got to you? What was the moment?

No. No. That wasn't anything good like that. I wish. I mean, that would be great. But I'm so disconnected that I'm like, I don't know. Like nobody can get in my head that way because of my body's sort of not connected to my mind. So I'm like really I don't know like nobody can get in my head that way because of my body's sort of not connected To my mind. So I'm like I'm like really disassociated all the time. I'm not sure I wish that would happen That would be really cool. Yeah, you know, like I would I would pay for that like I would definitely pay For like a good Like dominatrix like I would definitely get into it there are things that i've

seen that i'm like i wish that i could get into that but i really don't understand it there was this guy who he was really cool he was a a lawyer and um he uh had a junk, like a Chinese schooner. You know those Chinese boats that are junk? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he lived on the junk. It was really fancy. And he had a veterinary suction machine that would suck out fluids during surgery for animals. Right.

And he would attach a suction cup to it, a large cup to it, and he would enlarge his penis to the size of a basketball. What? It would take about 24 hours. Oh my God. To get it to the, like he would take it off and go to the bathroom

and have dinner or whatever and come back and reattach the suction cup and then it would like stay the size of a basketball for a day or so without the suction wow and he would be super high from it like sexually stimulated but also high. He didn't do drugs. He didn't drink alcohol. That was his sex. And he would bring it to clubs

and show it. What, his dick? In a room at a club. Just the basketball sized dick. What do you wear? Do you wear like a Scottish dress? Yeah, it was a kilt. Yeah. It was a kilt.

Yeah. But he was not British, but he would wear a kilt. And that was so impressive to me. Yeah. I was like, that is incredible. And he was so happy. and I feel like he's probably died now he was in his mid 70s also that was the other thing yeah he's real I wonder what his dick looked like deflated it was normal it was really it

was like it was normal it was just like a normal size um maybe a little bit large on the larger size yeah um but uh totally like normal not it would go back to normal wow it would snap back but it took a long time yeah it took a long time to get that big it would take uh just as long to snap back but so could he come um i never saw that yeah that wasn't about it wasn't about that yeah yeah yeah it's about the so that's it's sort of like about the uh spectacle of doing it so i think it was a combination of um sort of body modification it's like the people who hang from hooks they would be super high from it as well it's kind of endorphins mm-hmm it's pain so it's endorphin rush it's the kind of

exhibition of it yeah but also it's like what is that amazing I'm like in the same way that I don't think I want to get hung by hooks in my back I don't think mm-hmm there this this seems more accessible right but I don't know how to I'm just like I can't even I don't even know you talk about this separation. And when you finally went into the sober house, how are they talking to you about, like what made you finally say, all right, enough is enough and I'm going to clean up for good?

Well, I didn't have a choice. Like I was like put there outside of my own, I had an intervention. I didn't want to go. Tell me what happened. All my friends got together and put me in the rehab and I would stay there for a year and a half. It was actually a year and nine months.

But I loved it. I really didn't want to go. And then when I went there, I didn't want to leave because it was so great great i love coloring yeah i love like a coloring book i love art i like to make art so to me it was like just time to spend on art and hang with people and you know um you see how uh difficult I see how difficult alcoholism and drug abuse, drug addiction, it just is so intense. Like 16 people at my facility died. They were all young and beautiful.

And some of them were super famous, super successful. And like, what the hell? Like, how is that? It's not right. But you know, it's like, it's deadly. So I just want to live. I just realized I wanted to live. Were you ever suicidal? Not, um, purposefully, but not, I mean, it's like, I would just do it when I was high. Right. So I didn't know that I was. So that's like not cool yeah yeah you know but it's like uh

yeah i think it's more um when you get out of that and you get to know yourself it's a lot more fun yeah totally and now that you get to know yourself and now that you know that you want to live what are you living for now i have have many cats. I have my dog. I have hundreds of plants. Yeah. I have 28 bird feeders that... Holy shit, are you serious? The birds are really upset because of the rain.

But the bird feeders you have to clean all the time because there's bird flu. So it's quite a... You know, like I do a lot of time spend a lot of time helping creatures live i do shows i did a show uh a really fun show last night and it was really cool um john mulaney came and did that which is really awesome he's amazing yeah he's really about sort of like a rough road of like getting to sobriety you know that's an intense experience that he's had right and uh so since tonight i'm doing a show with jeff twitty which is really cool and sick so like i get to do like art stuff and shows i do shows

i'll go on tour um this spring uh over the place, which is really great. But my main focus is my home life and my animals and my sobriety. Those are the things that really keep me going. That's great. Do you feel like you have to do art now because you have to or because you want to? What's your mind state on art right now? I love it. I just love it.

I love to just create and i love to pick up like a new instrument so now i have this um new like uh weird midi keyboard that does like chamberlain sounds i'm trying to figure out what that is and sick so i like to sort of figure out like new things to play and it's all um it's all interesting like i'm writing songs right now for a film as a sort of like so i'm a fake band so it's like gem in the holograms but i'm i'm gem but i'm doing songs that i'll probably voice and play but i won't play the actual singer on the screen so we'll see so i'm doing that for a film and so that's fun so i'm doing different things that are really exciting and interesting and

and i'm also a gamer so i love what do you like er i am trying to figure out bone lab i can't get anywhere it's so hard yeah i just have the frying pan uh i'm only at the frying pan but it's really fun and i like doing uh vr meditation which is really cool yeah tell me what do you think is what do you think of the state of um you know the film industry in 2023 with like no one is not as many people going to movies and what do you think what do you think art's going to with in film film is still stunning film is still so moving um i just saw probably one of my favorite films it's probably going to be my favorite film i keep watching it over and over it's um decision to leave which is uh park chan wook's film he made um old boy and my other favorite film uh lady vengeance and uh the handmaiden and he is like so amazing so his latest film decision to

leave um was playing in theaters now it's playing on movie it is so stunning so it's just probably my favorite movie right now and uh i feel like film even though uh there's a lot streaming you can't beat the experience of going to a movie theater to see a movie and there's nothing better than that but the accessibility of film is really amazing and the uh the greatest streaming services are mooby shutter and 2b and also hbo max has great movies as well yeah um you can watch like citizen k 2b is a free service that's kind of like if they took all of the big box movies you know the when the vpbcr uh vhs movies had the big box it was always know when the VPCR, VHS movies had the big box, it was always like Jim Cotta or any kind of Jean-Claude Van Damme

or something like Snuff. Yeah. Like really sleazy content. Yeah. Or like really crazy, intense, distressing movies like Martyrs. Those are all on Tubi. Oh, let's go go that's the type of shit i like it's the most the terrifying stuff also a lot on canada so tubi's free

canopy is free canopy is available through uh the library if you have a library card oh great you can get uh movies on canopy the canopy is so the the catalog is so deep so you can go from like really obscure silent films to like the most distressing upsetting they have like some crazy horror some crazy giallo um the horror content uh which i love horror movies, is really... Horror right now is probably better than it's ever been. Like on Netflix, the incantation. On Tubi, the medium, the sadness. If it's got the in front of it, it's the shit.

What about that movie with Ed the Clown? The Punisher 2 or something? Or The Punisher? Oh, Terrifier. Terrifier. I heard that's fucked up. Terrifier's great. I haven't seen 2. I want to see 2 in the theater. Yeah. I'm kind of waiting to go to a midnight

of that. And there's also a big range of terror or horror now that's not really gory. Which is all psychological. so there's um the scariest one is called speak no evil oh i think it's um it's nordic yeah it's on shutter it's like the most upsetting it i still like freak out there's no go gore. It's all social terrors.

Yeah, mind fucking. It's super upsetting. It's like super upsetting to the point of like, you can't even believe like, because it's sort of real life happening and it's heightened. But yeah, Speak No Evil is really, it's really, really upsetting. So I'll check that out. I'll check that out. You know, I want to go back. I know we have a little time left, but I want to go back into, you know, your love for music and who are some of the musicians

in your life that's really inspired you artistically? Like, in friendships, with conversations you having that you talk about art, is it Tweety? Oh, I think it's definitely John Bryan. Oh, he's the... Of anybody who's taught me the most about music and about listening and about playing and about instruments and about just the life of a musician. You know, to me, he's really really the ultimate somebody that i've been friends with and just idolized for 30 years you know he is he's the king of any of that um you know and uh

you know we all have that guy he's got he's got his guy is um Keltner. Oh, wow. Who's an incredible drummer. That's his sort of like a musical idol. So we all have sort of like the legacy. But... Did you ever go to that John... Yeah, John is like really amazing. Did you ever go to that John Bryan residency at the Largo? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. All the time. I was obsessed with that. He's so special.

I adore him. I haven't seen him for a while, but he's really incredible. Incredible everything. Just artist, mentor, really cool guy. That's awesome. How hard is it to... Does it stress you out making a new set every year?

No, I think it's a very natural, I used to forget everything. So I have to like write new things. Yeah, I feel that. I just don't know how anything goes. I have to either like record it and write it out or I'll forget it. So I need to have it sort of on record. But then um yeah it's not it's not hard to create no it's hard to remember yeah was um jerry seinfeld an when you opened for him no he's the best yeah what was it like touring with jerry in those what i love about him is that like he really um he's just such he's done a love of comedy he has a such, he's got a love of comedy. He is such a fan of the art form.

And that is really incredible for somebody that is as accomplished as he is to really love it as much as he does. He's really amazing. He's such a sweet man and I really admire him. I really love him. Do you think he helped you catapult your career stand-up-wise in the 90s? Absolutely.

And he gave me a lot of confidence, which I think is kind of like the ultimate. So he gave me a lot of confidence in what I was able to do and he still does. He's a great, great, great person. I love it. Margaret, this has been so wonderful thank you so much for being just being vulnerable like this uh we're we're normally a music show so to have someone like you on the show is uh very special to us um and i appreciate it um so tell me a little bit more about the music tell me what is inspiring you because you were into punk and death. Were you into death metal at all?

I do love death metal. I love a bit of that really like Golgoroth. I love Golgoroth. I love death metal when it's also gay. I love Norwegian black metal when it's gay. Which is Golgoroth. I love death metal when it's also gay. I love Norwegian black metal when it's gay.

Which is Golgoroth. I love that shit. And it's like, it's so freezing cold there. And the music is just like, it's so cathartic to me. So I really, I love the aesthetic. the aesthetic and I love the lore. I think all of that is really interesting. I don't think I could play metal just because I don't know how they make any of these chords. I'm not sure of the musical theory behind it all. My primary

inspiration for songwriting right now is Paul Williams. Yes. It's like the Birkbeck rap, Paul Williams, that kind of melodic expansiveness where you're using all of your fingers to make a chord. to me it's like how do you even like it's that uh it's those b sharp sevens that are like what are you i uh you know like i'm like so into that so to me it's like those guys there's like very it's musicianship but it's also these chords that i i didn't even think about yeah and you know how do you even sorry that's i think that's why you like john bryan's mixes because he has very wide mixes where you could hear those expansion chords and you could hear you know i think that's

beautiful it's really beautiful and he yeah he comes from it from like sort of, let's use all of the instruments to make a very simple song really expansive. So he's using a lot of different tones and everything, but they're all like kind of within a frame. So it's like using a lot of different colors, like pixels. Right. So I really love the way that he does that so it's looking at music in a more expansive way that's what I want to try to do but bringing in

those sort of 60s sounds it's like when they started to like have synthesizers and I have I like old synthesizers I like it like a sort of a moog yeah moment or which I still cannot figure out. Yeah, super weird. Yeah. So I'm just learning. Yeah, it's beautiful. I got two more questions and I'll let you go.

What was your most toxic relationship and what was going on? Oh, gosh, I don't know. Probably, it's like this one guy. This is probably why I went to rehab is because they was trying to get my friends were trying to get me away from him. But every time I would go away on tour, he would pretend to kill himself. So he sent me photos of a bunch of pills and like then turn off his phone what so i couldn't reach him and i wasn't exactly sure what city was in because i had a place in san francisco and i had a place in la at the time so then i was like which city is he in which emergency services do i call what do i do like i was like so and then it was like upsetting

me so much that i was like that's when i was suicidal then i was like i was like so and then he was like upsetting me so much that i was like that's when i was suicidal then i was like i'll just break up with him by dying oh my god i couldn't get rid of him so jesus that was like horrible and then um so he lived in my house and um that's probably why i was in rehab for so long too because they couldn't get him out right and uh the the sheriff finally came over uh guns drawn to try to get him out and they came into my house um and they saw this figure in the bed and it was a mannequin it was my mannequin dressed in all my clothes and my wig laying in my bed and they're like what the and it was just laying there and uh nothing was here. So he had sort of staged this weird fake me in my bed.

What were you so fascinated with this guy? I wasn't, but he was just like, I was just wasted. And I woke up one day and he was here. He had been here for like two years. I was just high. I didn't know why you shouldn't do drugs. You're disassociated because like things that happen happen like you have no idea what's going on Yeah, yeah, you're like that's the problem. You're right, so

You know usually people in relationship even if they're fucked up. They know what's going on, but I had no idea yeah fuck Margaret what a fucking life, bud. It's crazy This is crazy. I mean, and through it all, you don't regret it all. You don't regret anything, right? No, no. I mean, it's, it's, I'm doing really well, so I'm very happy. Yeah, I'm so happy you found light and so

happy you found purpose again and you have, you feel like you're glowing and I really appreciate you being vulnerable like this. My last question, when it's all said and done, you're not and i really appreciate you being vulnerable like this um my last question um when it's all said and done you're not you're not scared of death right you don't are you scared of death no good no um it's the one certainty that we all have is that we will die and that's really kind of beautiful you know yeah um and it comes when it comes so so i am ready so when it comes what do

you want to be remembered by i think that i had fun and that it was fun and i had lots to say and lots to remember me by and so there's a lot of work out there but you know that it was really a fun celebration well thank you for uh thank you for being a champion of fun. And I'll be rooting you on forever. Thank you. Have a great day, Margaret. And thank you so much for being on the show. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Bye. Have a great one.

Bye. You tuned in to the World Cipher Podcast with Andy Fresco. Thank you for listening to this episode produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angelo and Chris Lawrence. We need you to help us save the world

and spread the word. Please subscribe, rate the show, give us those crazy stars, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up. Follow us on Instagram

at world saving podcast for more info and updates. Fresco's blogs and tour dates you'll find at andyfresco.com and check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show, or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain.

And after a year of keeping clean and playing safe, the band is back on tour. We thank our brand new talent booker Mara Davis. We thank this week's guest, our co-host, and all the fringy frenzies that help make this show great. Thank you all. And thank you for listening. Be your best, be safe, and we will be back next week. No animals were harmed in the making of this podcast. As far as we know, any similarity,

instructional knowledge, facts, or fake is purely coincidental.