Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 209: Isaiah Sharkey & The War on Drugs Podcast

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Call/text us and leave a message: [phone] No topic is out of bounds Andy is joined by fellow podcast hosts, comedian Clayton English and Greg Glod to discuss the stygian reality of Nixon's heinous and misleading initiative- The War on Drugs. Spoiler alert: Nixon was a criminal and his "war on drugs" is itself the real problem. Don't miss this illuminating conversation and check out their podcast: Lava for Good's The War On Drugs. Then on the Interview Hour we got a modern day troubadour, masterful guitarist & songwriter: Isaiah Sharkey! Pour yourself a glass of your favorite beverage and find some peace thru Isaiah's music. And don't forget to catch the band in a town near you andyfrasco.com/tour Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy Frasco & The U.N. (Feat Little Stranger)'s new song, "Oh, What A Life" on iTunes, Spotify  Produced by Andy Frasco, Joe Angelhow, & Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Brian Schwartz Arno Bakker

Hey, it's Schwartz. I'm getting calls that you're telling people that folks like Bruce Springsteen and Jimmy Buffett and Jimmy Page are sitting in on your shows because you think it's funny and you think it's showbiz. That's your new thing. Like, hey, Schwartz, it's showbiz. So just fucking lie. No, that doesn't work. That's not how it works. Bruce Springsteen is not sitting in with you.

Jimmy Buffett doesn't even know who you are. Maybe someday. But please, I don't know what got into you, but it's show business. Just lie isn't going to help you. It's going to hurt you. It is show business, but it's based in reality. So stop with this it's showbiz shorts. And no, we're not going to just add random shit to your posters because you think that's funny.

So for reals, this whole showbiz kick that you're on has got to stop. Stop lying to people. Stop lying to yourself. And it's the beginning of tour. It's the first night. Please do not do anything ridiculous. Don't give away illicit substances to anyone. Don't take them from anyone.

Don't do them on stage. Just music, music, music. Great show, great show. Tight band. You know, yeah, that's it. All right. And we're back. Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads?

How's our minds? Are we staying out of trouble? Are we not letting the government fuck with our vibe? You know what I'm saying? This is why we got the boys on here, to talk about the government not fucking with our vibe, because we're going to open the show with two guys who have this amazing podcast, Love for Goods, the War on Drugs podcast featuring comedian Clayton English and Greg Glod. Guys, thanks for being part of the show.

Let's fucking go. I appreciate it. No, thank you for having us, man. So tell me a little bit about the podcast before I talk about my problems that I need some advice on. a little bit about the podcast before I talk about my problems that I need some advice on. I mean, I think this podcast is for everybody. I think the title might, you know, you might think it's just for people who maybe dabble in drugs or maybe it's involved for people who have people who have been a victim of the war on drugs but this podcast highlights how the war on drugs affects every single person right and just the impact that it's had on society and how it's

been going how how they've been going about it has like ruined people's lives and um i think greg was so dope because he was able to like give you these little missing puzzle pieces because he knows it from the legal side and he knows it from the origin side. So, yeah, I think that's my little quick run. But, you know, I thought to my homeboy, Greg, I'm taking. Now, I think you hit it. But, yeah, I mean, we have all these policies in place. And, you know, I think we all went through kind of like the DARE program and all these scare tactics that the government kind of provided on drugs. And we just live in this world where we just throw people away because of these crimes and whatever else when they're struggling with addiction. And don't really ask a lot of questions about like the why.

Like, why are we here? Why is this the only way we do this? how we have done the same playbook over and over again since the 1920s on failing with drug policy, why we keep throwing addicts in prison, how we keep getting worse results. And so I think that's what this podcast is really all about. It's like, why are we here? How the hell did we get here? And how do we get out of it? And so that's really what we go through. We tackle it from the history and then into opioid epidemic and fentanyl and talking to addicts and people that are incarcerated for weed still and all these different things. It's pretty fascinating how the drug war doesn't just touch, like Clayton was saying, people that use drugs or are in prison, it touches everyone. And so that's what we really want to get across.

Is it racism? Definitely. Right. Shit. Is it racism? Definitely. Right. Shit.

It seems like a lot more African-Americans are getting popped for drugs versus, you know, you know, Susie from Calabasas, you know? Yeah. And that's kind of what I was saying with those missing puzzle pieces. During this podcast, I was able to see that the war on drugs, you know, we always think it starts with Richard Nixon, but it goes back to Harry Anslinger. You know, we always think it starts with Richard Nixon, but it goes back to Harry Anslinger. And his whole motivation was purely racist and wanted to, you know, vilify certain people, you know. And that's kind of the basis for you.

I want to listen to the podcast. I feel like I'm telling them to end it by saying this, but it's not even the end. It's in the first episode. You know what I'm saying? It's kind of like the Titanic. Like, we all know the boat sank. Yeah, yeah. We know how it's going to end up.

I don't think you're spoiling anything there. Yeah, man. That little boy going to be Darth Vader if you saw the prequels. I just think it's fucked up. What about, like, keeping the privatized prisons funded?

Is that a part of why people are why so many people are going to prison over these petty drug crimes? For me, I mean... Oh, go ahead, I'm sorry, man. Well, no, I was going to say, I think I know where Greg was going. I think it's part of it, but I

think also just the incentive to make money or get money from this drug war or hit your quota is like one of those things where once you follow the money, you start unveiling all types of things. It's like they have to arrest these amount of people if they want to get the same budget they got from last year. But yeah. Yeah. And I think it's public and private prisons. I mean, they both are riddled with problems and a lot of this has to do with that. But no, it's public and private prisons. And so, I mean, they both are riddled with problems.

And a lot of this has to do with that. But no, there are it's almost like with like, you know, Enron and these banks, like we bail them out because they're too big to fail. Like the drug war and the prison industrial complex are too big to fail at this point. There are too many jobs, too much money, too much funding. And then you start looking at these like grant programs at the federal level that incentivize low-level drug arrests. And this is how people build up their resume. If you're a prosecutor, you want as many convictions as you can. If you're a cop, you want as many arrests as you can.

This is how a lot of the government is funded off these things. You'd be shocked to see how many fines, fees, and civil assets for which the government the government can take yourself without even charging a crime actually funds law enforcement agencies like significant amounts of their budget yeah so like in ferguson like you know that was a great example you know obviously everything went crazy there um after they had this like one issue but there was so much underlying stuff that was going on where their government was essentially funded on the backs of poor black people and they had had had enough getting all these traffic tickets and things like that. They were just using their community as fundraisers. So when this happened, there was this bubbling effect underneath that was like,

we're tired of this. It wasn't just about the one death. It was about everything else that was bubbling up. And it's crazy. I mean, some places, it's over half their budget is from revenue, just from the people that are probably in the worst positions to help pay for that. It's pretty wild. So, some places it's, you know, over half their budget is from revenue just from the people that are probably in the worst positions to help pay for that. It's pretty wild.

So it's too big to fail. I mean, long story short. Isn't that enslavement? Some could say. Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah, that's the prison complex. That's the last, you know, remnants that this country has of slavery.

So nothing has changed. A lot of it is stuff by a different name at this point. And it just holds people back in a lot of ways. And, you know, generationally, I mean, think about, you know, the amount of trouble that like I got in as a kid, just screwing around living in like a white suburb with like a dad as a cop and a mom and then both there, let alone being a poor black kid in the inner city, just doing some BS and having your dad,

you know, go to prison, your mom going to prison, your mom started on drugs and there's no help. You know, it's generational. I mean, you know,

we can start making improvements. Like you said, legalization is going to start helping kind of reducing these rest of start helping, but we're not going to see significant social impacts a lot of this stuff for generations down the line like how do you start that process i mean you know i mean just the you know the the disparity and the crack and the cocaine sentencing you know like that can't be undone at this point you know people are still in yeah it's crazy that crack and cocaine

the only difference really is like baking powder and the amount of time that it like lasts in your system and a hundred times more cocaine um at the federal level was the same sentence as you know for for cocaine to crack and so you had to have a hundred times more cocaine powder cocaine because that was much more considered a white drug and then other than crack And so that's Hold on That's fucked up Yeah And it's basically who uses crack More than cocaine

Or at least perceived to be I'm not trying to stereotype crack No that's where it came from I mean then we get into that Like with Len Bias Yeah we did that episode Yeah the Marylandland like basketball superstar died of a coke overdose right um got drafted by the boston celtics and they said that this was crack and so they vilified crack passed a bill on that and made it like 101 ratio for prison sentences it's fucking crazy and the guy's testimony that

they took to figure out the uh you know, the sentencing or whatever, they took it from an undercover cop. This dude was the most fraudulent, made up motherfucker. I'm sorry, my bad. I don't like that. But he's just lied about everything. He was a cop. He lied about he lied about like witnesses. He lied about where he went to school. He lied about so many things. And this is who they based their information off of that these laws lasted for what? 30 plus years? Probably longer. Crack, man.

And then it probably wasn't even crack. He just signed an NBA contract. He was getting some good coke. It was like really high grade cocaine. Yeah, it was like it's like that fish book When you have as a kid The rainbow fish

Yeah That's so incredibly racist And this country is still You know they can hide it over a blanket But we are This country is still I remember having a situation Where I got caught having sex

in my car and I just got a little warning. And I know my friend got he was African American, also had sex in the car and they put him to jail. It's not a this is a real fucking problem in our country that we can hide it all we want with

laws and changing the names of these laws but it's a race it's a racism problem we're having in this country. And it's scaring me that, you know, like what's the most petty thing you've seen, petty crime that someone's in jail for 20 years over something, the silliest petty crime that someone could get out with no problem if they had money? Louisiana. What happened? A dude down there, right? Like $10

bag of weed. He's in there for life because they have repeat offender laws and it doesn't matter what the offense was. So your third strike is you're going away. Yeah. And to your point, but if you have a good prosecutor, you're going away yeah so but and like to your point but if you have a good prosecutor you're able to potentially drop those charges defer them like

it's in the hands of the prosecutor and the government whether they want to initiate that so yeah clayton's bringing up a case uh this guy kevin allen it was this third you know case so now he's considered a habitual offender for selling a $10, $20 bag of weed. And he's in prison for the rest of his life because of that. And he can't get out? There's ways that the governor can help commute and there's some things that can happen, but those- There's got to be action taken from outside. He shouldn't be in there in the first place. Right. And the amount of work it takes to get him out is, but yeah.

What type of action do you think we need to get people like that out of the jail system? A lot of it's just awareness and, you know, how many times have we seen, you know, some, some white chick does a true crime podcast and, you know, someone gets out of prison. I mean, you know, do you think Ahmed Syed would be, you know, you know, if someone gets out of prison. I mean, do you think Ahmed Syed would be, you know, you know, still in prison right now? Kim Kardashian.

Kim Kardashian stopped going down to the prison, man. She was on a good little run. She was on a good little run. I don't know, man. Like, I don't know if we can get her back. Yo, shout out to Netflix. Let's go. I mean, those are the types of things, as crazy as it is,

it's just a lot of the times media attention and accountability. I mean, who is your local prosecutor? You know, people don't like, you know, we talk about president and who your congressman is and your senator. That's all well and good. And they do some things. But it's the local actors that are like the biggest ones that kind of move and shift things. You can write the best law in the world and say this, that, and the other thing. If your local district attorney, your local prosecutor, your local judge just says, fuck that, we're

going to continue to do things. And they get to do that on the shroud of mystery because no one pays attention. You have to pay attention when you start shining lights on some of these atrocities. These aren't crazy few and far between cases. These are things that are routinely happening in our criminal justice system,

even if you're not getting locked up. Because we hear this all the time, like, oh, our prisons aren't filled with people with a joint in their pocket. And that's true. But there is a bunch of people in prison where it started because they had a joint in their pocket, and they got arrested, and they got sent to jail, and they couldn't afford $200 worth of bail. So they're there for three days. They lost their job. They lost their kid. They have nothing to come back to now. And they start committing more crimes. And it just keeps routinely going, going, and going. And so the impact that the criminal justice system has just at that lowest level, even from an arrest, we could probably survive and manage a couple of

these things. But if you're a 17-year-old kid or an 18-year-old kid, you have some job that you're barely able to get, or you're trying to apply for schools, maybe you're trying to get out of your system and situation, you get arrested for that and you're going to be disparately impacted by the criminal justice system. It's such an uphill battle. And race has a huge part to do with that. I mean, you can't look at the numbers of people that are in prison and who are arrested and the prison sentences and lengths of stay and all this stuff and not say that there is a racial issue within our criminal justice system and the drug war. Why do you think people are addicted to drugs? I think there's a lot of reasons.

There's a chemical aspect to it. It's the one thing that makes you feel good. It's just like any addiction, sex addiction, gambling addiction, anything else. When other things are missing in your life, you kind of turn to these things. And that has a huge aspect to it. This is why we see addiction levels rise during points of trauma. You see going back even to the Civil War,

heroin became a huge drug of choice for people because imagine being in a frigging trench during the Civil War and the trauma that brought around to you. And then you look at during Vietnam, all these GIs coming back that were addicted to opium and heroin and things like that.

How do you shoot a gun on heroin? Yeah. How do at a gun on heroin yeah how do you not shoot a gun right this is like it's like damn that's yeah so i mean that's a lot of going on it's so much of the mental health side of obviously they have like chemical components to it you know and that you get you know addicted to but a lot of this is on the social aspects. No, you're talking about like sex addiction and things like that. It's triggering those same parts of your brain because something else is whatever's missing. Yeah. And you're, and you're looking for something a lot of times, like when you, especially like, you know, younger people that get involved with drugs, a lot of times they're the outcasts

or they're, you know, the only requirement is you got to do drugs. It's a community. You know what I'm saying? Even if you just smoke weed, you're going to find out who else does what other things. And just the stigma that we have with it, like weed isn't the worst thing, but it teaches you how to be a drug user. It teaches you how to be sneaky. You know, when you were a teenager, you had them eye drops. You were trying to spray yourself in the face with Febreze before you went in there. Like, you tried to cover it up.

You know what I mean? Like, yeah. You got a point. Yeah. Clayton, tell me about this. You and Eric Andre are suing the Atlanta's Clayton County Police Department. Yeah. What's going on?

Why are you and Eric doing this? We got an episode, and we just kind of talk about it and it's crazy because it came together separately the war on drugs was something else that me and greg were working on and i saw that eric andre had been harassed at the atlanta airport and i had gone through a similar situation where they stopped me on the jet bridge and they were asking me this is after i've gone through security this is after tsa this is right i'm in the airport i'm getting on the plane the jet bridge that connects you to the actual airplane is where they came out and they started asking me questions do i have drugs uh and first of all i was going to la and so like

i was confused already like who's gonna bring drugs to la like i'm gonna get them when i get there like what kind of dummy what are you doing like i was like i don't want to tell you how to do your job but i think this is so i just remember and i do remember it was i really called eric and Andre to see who messed with him because I remember it was a short. Black officer and it was a tall Asian officer, and I just remember thinking this is a reverse rush hour like this is rush hour. It's like I'm like I'm here with Chris Chan and Jackie Tucker. This is crazy. Like what? Chan and Jackie Tucker. This is crazy. Like, but I like I should be upset. Like I start. But then like everybody else got to go around me. So many white people just went around me,

able to get on the flight and everything. They searched. They didn't find anything. They're trying to be buddy, buddy. They allow me to get on the flight. And I'm just thinking they're going to come and take me off this flight. I don't even know what I did. But I didn't even say anything until I saw Eric Andre. He was on Jimmy Kimmel. He talked about a situation. I reached out to him. And then, you know, fast forward, he had some people give me a call and asked me if I wanted to be involved in this lawsuit. And they came and told us what they discovered in the eight months between me and Eric Andre situation. It's supposed to be a drug interdiction program.

They stopped three people. One person had maybe 10 grams of weed. Somebody else had some gummies and somebody else had pills in a bottle that wasn't identified. But in the same timeframe, they confiscated a million dollars from passengers. Oh my God.

And I believe 67% of the people that they stopped were black yeah i'm not mistaken i think it's like eight to ten percent of like airline travelers are are black at any given time so you stop like 400 people and then like 200 whatever are black like and they're calling this random i mean i forget what the percentage but it was like one trillionth of a percent or something. It was something crazy. For it to be random, it would have had to been one in one trillion,

like something crazy, some ridiculous long, yeah. Clayton, take those racist motherfuckers down, baby. Go get them, every one of them. Take them down. And the thing is, nothing was taken from me, but what it opened up was people reaching out to me. Right.

Because I reached out to Eric and people are like, hey, they took $15,000 from me when I came. Right. And then like you're running to these people who are like, well, why did they why do those people have so much money? And one thing I'll tell you about Atlanta is the entertainment city. Right. Like if I go out, I'm a comedian. entertainment city right like if i go out i'm a comedian if i go out and i do a show and i sell my t-shirts if i sell my merch i'm probably gonna come back with some cash right it's this is a city full of uh musicians uh a lot of people make beats a lot of time they're paid in cash we got a

large strip club culture down here a lot of people are paid in cash. A lot of like serving and waitstaff people. So I don't like when people are like, well, if somebody had cash, that means they're a criminal. It's U.S. currency. Right. You know what I mean? If you're saying you can't have this, then... And it's show business. We get paid in cash more than we get paid in checks.

Come on, man. Yeah, shout out to the Claremont Lounge, by the way. I fucking love the Claremont Lounge. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's fucking go. That's my plan. Old titties.

You know, I love me some old titties. Yes. Yes. Guys. The only strip club that operates off a jukebox. And menopause. I teach you a few things. You teach me a few things.

Yeah, exactly. That's a fun fact. You see? I love it thanks you guys for being on the show I got one more question and then I'll let you go this has been awesome we should be friends this has been so fun and anything we need Mara Davis is

my home she books our show and I'm glad that we got to we're family in that side so I bring mushrooms everywhere I go She books our show and I'm glad that we're family in that side. I bring mushrooms everywhere I go. On planes, everywhere. I'm wondering how much trouble can I really get for having mushrooms on me on an airplane in Arkansas.

Places that aren't as legalized as... I live in Denver where everyone holds an eighth in their pocket. But tell me about this. I know you're asking a question, but I have so many questions just off your... But Greg is the dude to answer this for you. I take mushrooms every day.

That's my thing. Yeah, and it's kind of crazy. I mean, we do a podcast interview with this guy, Jesse Gould, who was an Army veteran. He was suffering severe PTSD. And kind of going back to how our government continues to just fail everyone on this. They were just pumping him with a bunch of antidepressants and things. And he was actually, you know, starting to drink and having, you know, bad suicidal thoughts. And so he went down to Peru, sold all his stuff and did an ayahuasca trip.

And now he runs a nonprofit that helps other veterans get down there and go through this sort of stuff. And so we talked about all the benefits of like psilocybin that has on like antidepressant and there's so much better results coming out of that than just all the drugs that people are pumped with right now. And so I'm hoping like place like I live in DC, we just did very similar with like what Denver and Colorado did decriminalizing and things like that. Um, so I'm, you know, I, I think it's the research on that is becoming really good, but yeah, from the trouble standpoint, I mean, it mean it depends i mean it depends on how much you have and how big of a jerk the um the tsa agent needs to be technically it's a schedule one drug which is crazy because that means it has no medical value or purpose um what the fuck yeah that's marijuana schedule two yeah just arbitrary yeah let's just start throwing i

think they literally have like a dartboard or something like that and they're just like all right cocaine now all right let's just fucking throw it out of here schedule two now it's crazy so i mean technically it's a schedule one drug it's federally you know illegal but if you're bringing it through you know a place where it's you know illegal the feds could technically do something about it but are they going to want to bring a federal charge on some guy holding like two, three grams of mushrooms? Probably not. The local cops could do something about it, but they'd have to like test it and do all this stuff and take it to a lab. I mean, you can get in trouble, typically depending on quantity, if they think like you're selling or doing something like that.

But if you have like a little bit, again, I'm not giving legal advice here. Come on, give me some legal advice, Greg. It's very... So go check out Lava for Goods, the War on Drug podcast co-hosted by these fucking awesome guys, Clayton and Greg. Thanks for spreading the good word. Thanks for doing

the good fight. Keep fighting, bros. Let them know that you are here to stop racism and to stop the drug problem, okay? No bullshit. I want you to fuck this drug problem up. Okay, boys? We're on it, man. That's a promise, Andy.

Go get them. Go fucking get them, boys. I'll talk to you later. All right. Later, guys. Bye-bye. All right, guys. Enjoy the next interview.

We'll see you next week. All right. Later, guys. Thanks, Andy. Bye. Hey, guys. I totally spaced out and forgot to talk about our sponsors during my little opening segment.

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go see Red Rocks, go see a gig of Red Rocks or the Mission Ballroom or wherever you are, Dylan Amphitheater, all these great venues in Colorado. Go grab yourself a can of them and have them. They're great for sleeping. They're great for just keeping your vibes right. So grab some dialed-in gummies whenever you have a chance. All right, back to the show. All right, next up on the interview hour, we have guitar player, producer Isaiah Sharkey.

Yes, one of the baddest guitar players out there, in my opinion. Hailing out of Chicago, Illinois. I mean, this man's played with everyone. He's played guitar for D'Angelo. He's played with John Mayer. I mean, the list goes on and on. He is a true talent. I just love everything about him.

His story was amazing. I met him on Jam Cruise. And I really think you're going to love this interview. Hey, Chris, play a little Isaiah while I'm pimping him out a little bit. How can this be? Holy shit, he is the real deal. So, ladies and gentlemen, hope you enjoy this interview. You're going to love it.

Isaiah Sharkey. Every day, thoughts of endless time. Sharky. For you And I feel the same way You do too But this week ain't the night Lady That you're gonna be Isaiah, nice to meet you, bro. Nice to meet you. Yeah, man.

How's it going? Going pretty good. Pretty good. Having some fun. What's your vibe, bro? Oh, well, my vibe is whatever the day is. It's just peace. As long as it's peaceful, that's all that matters to me.

How important is peace to you? It's very important. It's just as important as love. I mean, you're able to relax, be calm, be cool, treat yourself well, and treat others well. Have you ever had a time in your life where you felt like you weren't peaceful? I mean, you have moments, but for the most part, you know, I try to stay pretty peaceful and keep a peaceful environment with energy. What was it like living in Chicago? It's great.

You know, it's a big city. It's an amazing city. You know, a lot of great things. Some things that are not so great, but it's home. It's pretty good. There's a lot of music, a lot of good food, a lot of, you know, different seasons. It's beautiful, beautiful people. What are the things you don't agree on about Chicago?

Well, I mean, just like anywhere else, violence that that happens in chicago and you know stuff like that yeah how how long have you you've grown up there all my whole life yeah yeah i heard some great stories about you know you being you've been in this your dad was a musician or that was a musician yep and was that like intimidating to get better if Or was it like something you needed Like a spark up your ass to like get better Well I mean I think A spark up your ass is always Necessary to get better

I don't know if it was necessarily intimidating But it was definitely He challenged me To challenge myself And so and my brothers And sisters as well. And so that's what I grew up with, with very, very, you know, he believed in anything that you did,

that you decide to do, that you would be the best at it or the best you can be at it. You know, so if you're a janitor, be the best janitor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, if you're a football player, be the best football player,

and such and such. Have you ever thought like you were being the best at something and then your dad came on like, hey, I could have been better. Oh, yeah. There's been plenty of times I, you know, would learn something, a transcriber solo or a song or something like that and be like, you know, dad, look what I learned. He said, yeah, you're playing the right notes, but go back and figure out why they played it and how they played it, you know, and get the tone together. You know, it was always some type of critiquing. And then if it was right, he'll tell you it's right.

Yeah. But, but yeah, definitely. Would that ever piss you off? Oh yeah, it pissed me off. Hell yeah.

Hell yeah, it pissed me off quite a bit. Yeah. But it made me the musician that I am today. It made me very detailed. It made me very, keep my integrity with learning music up. And,

uh, I think that's one thing The reason why I Work as much as I do Is because I take pride in Learning the details And grabbing the feeling Behind everything

I'm not really an athlete But I admire athletes so much About the dedication it takes I love Kobe's i love the kobe's of the world love the michaels of the world like i grew up in la so i had kobe you had michael these guys who are just relentless about getting better was that ever inspiring for you to be a better musician oh yeah you know when you see someone else that's great at what they do you know it's like man i want to i want to be great like that at what they do, you know, it's like, man, I want to, I want to be

great like that at what I do, you know? So there's always, you always surround yourself and expose yourself to people that are great at what they do, you know, so that you don't want to, you know, be around or see so much slack, you know, because then that, that'll give you kind of a slothful spirit or a slothful way of doing things. So I tend to like to be around people that are greater. When did you realize you were great? I don't know if I'd necessarily say I realized when I was great. I'd just say that I'm striving, always striving for greatness.

And if that makes me great, you know Maybe someone will say that But I don't I'm just looking at greatness I'm not trying to I'm trying to be the best I can be At every moment So you know The greatest thing is to

Be as good as you can In the moment Right And that's your best Yeah And then that will make you great Every time that you do something When you're trying your very best

How hard is it to be in the moment? You know, there's times when certain situations won't allow you to be free enough to be in the moment. Like, you know, if you're playing again with musicians or surrounding yourself with people who are not like-minded, it'll hinder you from being able to Be in the moment and play Efficiently

Or to express In an effective way But even in that There's a level of improvisation that you You take or you utilize To try to still make the moment shine Yeah That's what I'm

Trying to get at like improvisation Isn't supposed to be perfect Or do you think it should be perfect No I don't think it should be perfect I mean it's I think Improvisation Is just what you leave room

For mistakes you leave room for To search The whole point of Improvisation is searching And in searching In anything You're gonna Have little bumps

In the road And hiccups But it's up to you To decide whether or not You go this way Or that way After the Right after the hiccup

Right So you practice Yeah You practice You know Correcting whatever those Bumps are In the road are you know in in the moment do you have that same philosophy about just being a human absolutely that comes

first that comes before yeah being a musician i think you know once you realize that as a as a human being then you say okay you all of that your attitude your your personality all of that spills over into your music. Right. And the feeling. As a person, I have feelings. So when you bring those feelings into the music, the music begins to have a feeling.

And that's the most important part of music anyway. What's easier, improv-ing life or improv-ing music? Say that again? What's easier for you, improv-ing life or improv-ing music? I don't know if one is easier than the other. I think it's hand in hand. I mean, I think that life is music. You know, it consists of energy and vibration. Just like, you know, music is the same way as life, you know, everything comes from some sort of energy or vibration. And so that's what we're dealing with as musicians. And so to deal with those frequencies and vibrations and energy

is an ongoing quest. Yeah. You know, I heard a great story about you that you saw D'Angelo at a record store. Mm-hmm. And you ran up to his ass. I did. I made fun of him first.

I said, oh, man, he looks like a fake D'Angelo because he was a little heavier at the time. And then I looked again. I said, double back. I said, wait a minute, that is him. So I'm a massive friend. And the guys that I admire play with him. And a mentor of mine who had passed at the time,

Spanky Alford, was part of his band. Were they all Chicago kids? No, no, no. They were not Chicago musicians. They were all fantastic musicians from all over. Like Pino Palladino was originally from Wales by way of London. Then you have Roy Hargrove, who's from, I believe, Texas. And then Spanky Alfred's from...

So all of these people are from different places. They were legends playing with D'Angelo. And that's why he reached for them So when he brought you Into the group To start recording Like Black Messiah and stuff What was like

Your philosophy How old were you then? I was about 19 So to have the balls 19, 20 years old To get up to D'Angelo And be like Yo D'Angelo

I'm your guy Well I didn't say that But like Was it implied? No It was never implied I came up You know

Solely as a fan You know I was like Excuse me are you D'Angelo? He's like yes I said well listen I just want to let you know I'm a huge fan

And I love your music You know A guy who was a friend of mine Who was also a mentor Spanky Alfred Played with you And you know It just so happened

That me and Spanky Alfred Had a lot of things in common You know We would meet up with each other And Sometimes be learning The same things The same lines

From the same song Same artist You know At the same time And And so we had similar styles And so You know

When D'Angelo said Yeah I knew Spanky You know He, was that you playing in the store? I said, yeah, that was me. I said, man, you sound, you know, you remind me of Spanky, even your spirit. So he heard me in the store again and went back in the store, played, and he asked me to be a part of his band. I didn't definitely wasn't like, you know, saying, hey, I'm your guy, you know. It's not my vibe at all.

Because I was like, growing up in a major city, you kind of have to survive. You got to really go out there and express yourself to get these gigs. When you're working with a guy like D'Angelo who loves your music and you're 19 years old and you're like, this is a fucking... You love his music too. I mean, it's pretty fascinating to,

um, have this like, like script in life where like Spanky, like he was your mentor. Like why did, why was Spanky the guy that you like felt what wanted to be your mentor? Well, he was,

he was, he was one of my mentors. I mean, he was, he was more like a, a big brother. Um, what did he teach mentor. Well, he was one of my mentors. I mean, he was more like a big brother. What did he teach you? Well, he just taught me different things about approaches that he took with certain songs and music.

You know, my biggest mentor is my father. Right. And then my uncles, my dad's brothers, they were guitar players. And so I basically just took All that I could All the information I could From all the people that I admired And gathered that information And studied

But I liked Spanky Because of just the style of his music And the style of his guitar playing And it sounded close to what I grew up on I grew up on a lot of jazz music and R&B and soul and rock and gospel because I grew up in church. But mainly, most of the stuff that I listened to was jazz music. I just so happened to be doing a lot of gospel stuff in the beginning of my career because I was playing in church. But, you know, and some of the music that I grew up on, i don't get a chance to do it as often as i would like to but but um that's just one part of you know the many things that i grew up

playing and listening to you know you know i talked to cory henry about the gospel music business and he said it's kind of kind of fucked up because like people are you know not paying you enough or because and they're blaming that it's for god and stuff like what was your take about the gospel music scene well um there's a there's a bit of that you know i've had some good experiences i've had some bad experiences with certain artists and you know you know uh facilities that that that taught religion and stuff like that. And some would try to use God to not pay, and then some people didn't have a problem with playing. And it's the same thing with what they would call the secular world,

you know, when you're dealing with R&B artists or hip-hop artists or, you know, whatever, so forth. It really just depends on people. You know, the whole industry, music industry can be shady and it can be great all at the same time. But, you know, you just try to take the good out of it and roll with that and not dwell on the negative and, you know, and make the best out of it. And that's it. You know, take, learn the lessons that you need to learn from the

negative stuff in in any situation whether it's gospel or the church or the world you know what was the biggest lesson you learned from the music industry that helped you grow not take any bullshit well uh you know um there's been sessions where i uh you know, a producer would say, hey, you know, I got a drum beat. Just vibe with the drum beat. And I would vibe. And then that vibe would be all of the melodic information for the song, including the melody and the chord changes. Oh, shit. And I was much younger.

And I learned my lesson because I was credited as a guitar player and not a writer. Oh, fuck. Or a composer. And somebody else got the credit and ended up being on an album which would rename Nameless. That's cool. But did you lose a lot of money? I don't know how much money they made, but I lost some money because I didn't... Yeah.

You know, whatever it is It was You know My money Whether it was $5 or $10 Exactly The point is Is that You know At any given moment

If somebody decided To use that song On a movie Or anything That person Or those people Would be credited And not myself

And so I learned How to Go into Any type of situation And realize You know, in a situation like that And discuss business Right

Before even playing, you know There's been times where I Be noodling around While I'm getting sounds And, you know That noodling was being recorded And then chopped up And placed in hip-hop songs

It's fucking wild You know what I mean? Stuff like that It's stuff like that that happens And it's, you know It's fucking wild You know what I mean Stuff like that It's stuff like that That happens And it's You know It's a common thing That goes on

But I just learned my lesson From that type of stuff Yeah you know And it's It's experience too It's experience yeah You know how to navigate You know what to do

You got my sound Okay cool Yeah cause I think about Like George Porter Like all those meter songs That he didn't get any He didn't get any royalties for That's all over those hip-hop tracks now.

I mean, we're learning from our ancestors and our generations before us. What can we teach the generation next about what we've been treated like in the music industry? The same thing we're just talking about now, just taking our experiences and sharing that with them and just really trying to get younger musicians and artists to to understand as much as they can about the business and understand uh you know the role whatever role that you're playing whether it be in a session or whatever you know are you just a guitar player are you just a bass player okay is there arrangements

already are there is there a chord? Okay. Is there arrangements already? Are there, is there a chord structure there already? Are there lyrics already? You know, and, and understanding that if, that you are contributing, if you are indeed including,

adding something to a composition or, or, or, you know, a song, you know, where, where, you know, like, okay, that song does not, it's not the song if it's not, if that part isn't there.

You know what I'm saying? And that's creating and you're partly a writer. Yeah. It's greed, isn't it? Mm-hmm. Why are we so greedy in this country? Well, in the world, you mean. Yeah, exactly.

I don't mean to correct you, but yeah. You're right. The world can be a bit shady. But, you know, it's people get away with what they can get away with. And it's up to you to be able to be as aware and open-minded as possible. Or as some people say, not sleep. And that takes a bit of studying and knowledge, not just music. You know, knowledge in your field.

You know, knowledge in what you're doing. You're not going to use, a painter is not going to use indoor paint outside. Right, right. You know what I'm saying? So he's got to understand the difference. Was your dad savvy with the music business or was he just a great musician? Well, he started to be savvy in the later years He was just like a lot of musicians

Back in the day where they didn't understand the business Back in the 60s and 70s And as he Trial and error and the experiences He learned a lot And he helped me And then the things that he didn't know I took it a step further

And then my daughter's a musician now She's 13. How old are you? I'm 33. Damn, you had a kid at 20? Well, 19, yeah. Holy shit. I'll be 34 in a couple months.

Was it an accident or were you married? No, it wasn't an accident at all. It was my girlfriend at the time. So we were together and we decided to have a child. Yeah, I'm basically i basically you know going to be teaching her those things i'm slowly and you know telling her things that that she needs to know in case she wants to do it for a living how tell me the experience you had raising a kid as being an up-and-coming musician well um it's you know i had to learn balance you know um

knowing when to say yes and when to say no about, you know, to gigs and stuff like that. Learn how to take gigs that matter. That's going to really make a difference either in my career or, you know, financially. And taking that time out. And if it's not going to, you know, kind of, how can I say, benefit either one, then I need to be taking that time out to spend time with my daughter. And also trying to take her out with me when I'm, you know, as much as possible when I can, you know, when the environment is proper, you know. So it's a balance. Communication is key.

Your presence when you have a child is key. And it took some adjusting because, you know, you're growing up. You're 19 years old. You're still trying to figure out life yourself. Right, exactly. And, you You're 19 years old. You're still trying to figure out life yourself. Right, exactly. And, you know, I'm 33. Still trying to figure out life, you know. I'm still a 65-year-old still trying to figure out life.

They got a good grip on most things, but there's always something to learn. And so, you know, at that age, I just had to make some adjustments. And I'm adjusting every day as I mature. It's so fascinating To me when you're Were you making money in I guess you started working on the D'Angelo record When you were 19 right? 19, 20 years old yeah

So were you on salary with D'Angelo Or was it like a prove it deal or what was it like? Well you know it was pretty much You know Get paid through the union You know you get paid Whatever your rate is For a session You know

Just like most Most sessions are You know And that's how I always Kind of treated it Like that So like when you're with When you're in these sessions

Was it intimidating Like give me a little Like inside scoop Of how D'Angelo produces Or how Whoever Who was producing that He was producing it

so like I mean he plays everything too so was it like you know you talk to this idea where this guy has the whole thing in production and you're playing was it that same feeling with D'Angelo? Well um D'Angelo usually has an idea

he definitely has a great idea of what he wants and sometimes it can be notes you a great idea Of what he wants And sometimes it can be notes You know on the guitar That he wants to be playing A certain feel And then sometimes It's just a feeling

That he's looking for And that's what most Most artists and most musicians That know what they want They may not be able To play it themselves That's why they hired you Yeah

And Or sometimes They want what you Contribute What you have to contribute To the situation And so It's a nice combination Between what he wants

What he wants it to feel like Sometimes it can be An exact Note Or notes Set of notes And he wants you to Execute it with your feel

And sometimes It's just a feeling That he wants you to Kind of You know Put your input In on it You know So He's pretty open He wants you to execute it with your feel. And sometimes it's the feeling that he wants you to kind of, you know, put your input in on it, you know. So he's pretty open but very, very true to whatever the structure and the feeling that he wants for the song. That's what I was going to ask.

Like how, you know, you're talking about whenever, maybe there might have been a moment where you guys butted heads. Like how did you, did you have to take your ego out of it or did you have to like listen or can you like bark back bark back say i think it's this way or was that type of relationship with with the with the artists i never try to butt heads with artists only because you know that song is their baby yeah and what i think of something doesn't matter in someone else's picture and paint you know i can I can say, I can, I can say all day, you know, well, I feel like it could go this way and that's cool if it's my song, you know,

and I might say, well, what do you, you know, you can, it's okay sometimes to say, what do you think about this if they're unsure, right, but if there's a definite thing like, boom know this is what i want you know i i i have to play that and respect that because who knows what else you know he might add later that that might be you know kind of countering or going you know working or marrying with another part in the song so uh i always stay open-minded and that's and i've and there are some some things that when I work with other artists, I'm like, in my mind, why would they want to do that? But then when I hear the big picture, it works. And it's their vision.

And it's like, damn, I would have never thought about that. What was the moment? Like, what song was it where you thought about that if you want to express it? I can't remember an exact song, I want to say. But there has been moments Yeah With You know

Different artists You know And But again You know You learn your place You You respect the vision

Yeah And you go And you move forward You know And hear it out And nine times out of ten If I'm thinking That something's not working

And I'm like It just doesn't feel right, doesn't feel right. Sometimes it is like that, and then sometimes if it's really not the right thing, the artist will say it eventually. Just don't worry about that. Don't do that. Or, what you think? And I say, well, let's try this. You know, always

leave the room open. You never want to outshine the master. In their head, right? Yeah, you never want to outshine the master. I could be the greatest guitar player in the world, and a person may have a song, and they hear a part on that song, but it doesn't matter how great I am. If I can't execute being a part that they need in order to create and finish their vision, I'm not such a great guitar player. I'm not such a good musician.

You know, that's my job is to help paint your picture. Yeah. And that's how I feel about it. Is that what drives you? Yeah. That's one of the things that drives me is, you know, you think as a producer when you're playing your instrument, you think as a, I think the camera's falling.

I think as a musician, you should think as a um i think the camera's falling i think uh as a musician you should think like a producer a producer is ultimately trying to get the song to be at its best and you're trying to almost read the the the artist's mind you know what i'm saying and so uh you just you you do that and then if there's something that you can do with what they give you or that vision to improve it, then you do that. And sometimes what you may think improve it might fuck it all up. And so it just depends. Yeah, yeah. It just depends, you know, because, again, you can never know exactly what a person's vision is.

Who are we to intrude on that, you know? So with that same philosophy, what about when you're producing your own type of music? It's the same thing. I always try to give the musicians that I work with my vision. And sometimes what I give them may not be exactly what I need. And I leave the floor Open for them to When it becomes

A train wreck sometimes I leave the floor open For them to make suggestions And sometimes They're suggesting it work Or sometimes it won't Sometimes we might collab And say okay

What about splitting The difference between This and this And then that works So it's just being open At the end of the day You just want to make it It's not about ego

It's not about Who's the best guitar player or the bass player or drummer or anything. Put the ego aside and let's make the song or the music do what it needs to do at the end of the day. What about when it comes to your own music that you're producing? The same thing. Okay. So you like writing with people or do you like having outside voices helping you construct these songs or do you like just taking the lead on it? Um, you know, um, sometimes it happens in different ways. Sometimes, you know, um, I'm writing most of

it. And a lot of times when I write music, it's alone a lot of times, you know, in my own space. Um, and then there's been times where me and my keyboard is Tim Trippett or, you know, in my own space. And then there's been times where me and my keyboardist Tim Trippett or, you know, me and the bass player Maurice Fitzgerald or even the drummer Eric, we'll all just stumble up on something and create from there. And sometimes, you know, you know, because it's like my album, I kind of give the feeling of direction and where I want the album to be, the vein. And then they kind of just flow from that. You know, you have to take some sort of lead if it's your project, but not be, you know, narcissistic and be like, you know, this, you know, you don't want to be like that. Was there any albums looking back where you felt like, hey, I was a little jaded there?

Hmm. I think, I don't, I would, I think some stuff i think i would have probably did different like which record um hmm there is that's a good question i would have probably did a song that i wrote called uh lh i would have had another drummer do it i did the drums yeah i did the drums but and it wasn't bad at all it's just i think that track date i was i didn't have anybody available to play the drums okay call space and so um i called the drummer in to replace the drums and before you know before i let him play it he was i let him listen to it he's like don't touch him i was like what he said don't touch him i'm like dude but you could you

could kill it you kill away better mind he's like no you said what i had to say and so it sounds great leave it alone what's the was there another song you want me to play and i should have listened to my gut and allow him to play it anyway Even though he said You know That it was good Because now You know That can haunt you You know If you don't Go with your gut instinct

Right You know You have to live with that You know It's like It's so funny Why don't we trust Our first instinct

Sometimes I mean It's always the one We always go back to Yeah I think I think Sometimes overthinking

Yeah Sometimes overthinking Yeah Sometimes overthinking can cause you not to Trust your gut Or sometimes outside influences that causes pressure You know, trying to compare your stuff to someone else's music And, you know, like, well, I got to stand up to this And it's like, you know, wait a minute No, what is it about? Is it about the way you say things? Yeah And what you want things to be? music and you know like well i gotta stand up to this and it's like you know wait a minute no

what is it about is it about your what the way you say things and you want things to be so sometimes that can question your your gut instinct you know you've worked with so many people in so many different eras of people's careers like isaac brothers fucking john mayer d'angelo what's the difference between the growth of a musician when they're writing music in the studio say like with the old heads like Isley's versus a D'Angelo in his prime or John Mayer later in his

life is there a lot of the parallels the same in the recording sessions or does everyone have their own different vibe in how they're recording? I think all of them have their own different vibes you know John is very I mean all of them are very particular about what they want in their own ways you know um uh d focuses on uh you know a lot of the feel and and tone too i mean yeah they all

have their different ways i think they all have the same kind of things that they're they focus on but they have their own ways of getting to it you know what i'm saying in their own ears it's just like two people can play a boss pedal right the boss ds1 and it sounds totally different you know and it's just the way they they hear things you know so you kind of just learn how other people hear and, and, and put that in your musical palette and be like, okay, I've got that in my back pocket in case somebody wants me to say,

Hey, can you, I want to eat this type of sound. I need this type of approach. And you just use that and have that in, you know, in your arsenal. No.

And it has that made you a better producer just being in the studio with all these guys. Absolutely. Cause you, you, you got more than just your way of looking at music and thinking about Sonics and learning just shit. I've been in studios where a drummer would take an old suitcase, those old school hard shell suitcases, and make it a kick drum. I had never seen that shit in my life.

And it had a great tone? It was great. Yeah. And nobody to this day would know. I won't say what record it is. It's okay. Because it's their shit.

But it made a it made a huge difference. And I again I would have never thought of that. So then I was like oh well I got that

in case I know how to get that sound but then it spark other you know that concept should spark other concepts like what if i use this as a kick drum right what if i use this as a snare and this is you know so on and so forth so you know learning from these other people will automatically give you even more growth in your own imagination so being in different situations definitely helps what about like when you're in a session with a producer that's also an amazing guitar player is it just like is it a pissing war is it okay like

what what's the vibe i haven't experienced that just yet um. I think if a guitar player calls me in for a session, it's usually because it's something that I do that they don't do. And it's already a level of respect to even have me in there. And if it was a pissing war, I wouldn't be involved in it. I would just be like, what do you want me to play? You want me to play what you just played? Okay, cool. And in that moment, I submit to whatever, this is yours. I would just be like What do you want me to play? Yeah You want me to play What you just played? Okay cool Yeah And I

You know In that moment I submit to whatever This is yours Yeah So I submit to that Who gives a shit about Who's better or whatever

At the end of the day I could be the baddest dude In the world But you hired me To play this part And this is your record So you're the baddest dude In the world

On this record Yeah So it just takes A level of maturity Who taught you this fucking Calm, cool collectiveness, bro? That's just me, man Yeah?

Were you a troublemaker? Like, did you get into drugs or alcohol or anything? I never got into drugs, man No? I think I didn't start having drinks until after Well, in high school I had Maybe like sophomore year high school That's when I had my first drink

You know, of course my parents didn't know, but they had water bottles at school. We could have water bottles. We couldn't have soda and pop or whatever at school. So they were big advocates about staying hydrated. And so, you know, gin looks like water in a water bottle. Let's go. And so I put the gin in the water bottle.

Tanqueray. And I drank it. You get in trouble? No, nobody noticed. But my music teacher at school, and he was pretty cool. He was pretty cool.

But, you know, he's like, son, just stay in the band room for the rest of the day. Because, you know, whatever. But it never really

got a hold of you, right? Alcoholism? No, I don't think so. I mean, there were moments where I was really having fun, you know, whatever. But it never really got a hold of you, right? Alcoholism or? I don't think so. I mean, there were moments where I was really having fun, you know, with it. But, you know, I never got taken by it. I don't think. You know, I've slowed down. You know, your recovery after 30 is kind of surreal.

I'm saying after 30, it takes a little while to kind of recoup. Yeah. So I've slowed down takes a little while To kind of recoup Yeah So I've slowed down Quite a bit That's great But I do everything You know I do what I do In moderation

That's great And that's important You know And I don't knock anybody Who does anything else You know If you know Just be safe

And do what you do You know Who am I to judge I don't know You're not a really Judging person No why should I be Yeah If I point at you I got you know A You're not a really judging person? No. Why should I be? If I point at you,

I got a thumb and three fingers pointing back at me. Yeah. I know. You know what I mean? That's the problem about, why are we so judgmental as Americans? Well, you know, I think that's a part.

I think that has to do with a lot of insecurities and lack of understanding and ignorance. That has to do with A lot of insecurities And lack Of understanding And ignorance You know When you don't See life From

When you see life From just your perspective You know I think That It's It's a mentality That's spilled over into

You know Politics Which we don't have to get deep into Religion You know Which we don't have to get deep into uh religion you know which we don't have to get deep into but like you know all of those different things uh has that that's why you have so many different denominations and you know and just in christianity alone and you have all of these different people you know parties and in the government and all this everybody have their respective and you know it's know, it's okay to have your

perspective as long as you don't make your perspective law. You know, there's a great philosopher named Saad Guru who I like. And he talks about how, you know, life is like a million piece puzzle.

And, you know, everybody get a couple pieces. You know? And you know how you put a puzzle together. You find the three pieces that fit. And you see a little image. But when you make those three pieces the big picture, that's a problem. Because now the puzzle, you think it's finished, but it's got

how many more pieces? 900-something thousand more pieces in that million piece puzzle. So It would Be very arrogant Of us to be judgmental When you don't know

Somebody's way And path Of life That they have To walk through And so That's our problem Is you know

Lack of understanding Lack of Consideration And empathy And you know For others You know I think at the end Of the day Lack of understanding, lack of consideration and empathy for others. I think at the end of the day... The same philosophy for racism. Yeah, all of it.

All of it. It's a fear of something that takes you out of your comfort zone because you have made your perspective law. Right. You know what I'm saying? because you have made your perspective law. You know what I'm saying? It's okay to have your perspective, but when it starts to negatively affect other people,

that's where the issue comes. Right. And that's when war happens. And that's when arguments occur. And then that's when separation and segregation and all these different things in music. You know, same thing with music. When we talk about music, if you have your way and perspective of something

and you're in a band, it's like, okay, that's cool. But when it fucks up the groove, you have then made your perspective law. You have then made what you think about it law. And that's not music. That's not music. And that's not life.

Yeah. Well, it's like the same thing About communication Like Are you really communicating If you're not listening? No You're not

No You know The root word is commune Yeah Right Right You're sitting with somebody When you commune with someone

You're sitting You're talking with them Not at them. And so, you know, commune or community. It involves everybody else. In order to have a community, you have to have several homes and families.

This person might be a fireman. This person might be a policeman. They're both necessary. You have a doctor. You have a teacher. It's all necessary. So maybe that's wrong with our society. No one's listening. They're both necessary. Yeah. You have a doctor. You have a teacher. It's all necessary. So maybe that's wrong with our society. No one's listening. Nobody. They're just talking.

Absolutely. Yeah. Fucking thank you for that. I'm glad we researched that. Oh, yeah. Isaiah, thanks for being on the show, man. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

Really nice to meet you. Are you here all week or you're going out? I'm here all week until the end. You're doing a master class? What are you doing? Yeah, we're doing master's class? What are you doing? Yeah We're doing masters at sea Every day

Right And I've been sitting in A couple nights ago I sat in with The Word With Robert Randolph And Taz Special

Taz is amazing I'm looking for him Because I want to Talk to him And tell him how great he is I love Taz Were you that good When that

You know I was good I was You know Was I that good I don't know I probably was He's great

I think Were you good at 11 I think I was pretty good I was My first record Was when I was 14 With who With my family

It was a jazz record Straight ahead jazz album What was it called Skyliner Do you Have you re-listened to it And see And judge yourself Or you like it Yeah I think I was pretty With who? With my family. It was a jazz record, straight ahead jazz album. What was it called? Skyliner. Have you re-listened to it and judged yourself? Or you like it? Yeah, I think I was pretty,

I think I was doing my thing. That's what we're talking about. I think I was doing something. You know, I transcribed a Wes Montgomery solo on there. It's note for note. 14? So I think I was alright.

You know, but Taz has, he has his own thing, you know know I love I love looking At young guitar players And listening to them And being like

God damn They're amazing I think that he He probably was better than me You know I haven't heard him play In different situations At that age

I was playing In a lot of different situations So it was rock And blues And jazz And R&B And gospel And this

So I haven't heard him in a lot of other settings but i i wouldn't be surprised if he could do it you know but as far as technically technically i think he's fucking brilliant and and and i think that it should you know they should you know younger players should be better yeah if not then what's the point right you know it should be better You know We should Be able to say George Benson Then John Coltrane

Then this person Then that person It should always have some sort of evolution To it If we're too arrogant to say Somebody's better Or more technical or whatever Then that's different If we're too arrogant to say Like you know Somebody's better Or you know More technical or whatever

Then that's different And I wouldn't even say better I would just say different You know That's his voice Right Let him be him You know

There's another guitar player That I love Kingfish Oh yeah Young Cat Oh yeah He's the man Yeah

He's killing He's killing the game right now. And so is Taz. You know, and then you got, you know, Marcus King, who's a badass. He's still in his 20s. Billy Strings. You know, bad as shit. Yeah.

You know, Melanie Faye. You know, who else? I mean, so many players, man. So many players. And I love them all. And I steal shit from them, too. What do you consider a good guitar player? What is the task that a guitar player needs to do to get Isaiah's ears perking? Play music.

Right. Anybody could play guitar. But in a musical situation, which that's what we do, I want to hear you what we do I want to hear you play music I want to hear you play things that are meaningful And things that I can feel I want to hear an effective player Not just an impressive one That's what I'm fucking talking about too

You know what I'm saying? Talk to me You know what I mean? I don't want to hear your scales Just to show that you have good technique I want you to have a Back to communication everybody has

I mean everybody and their mama got got an instrument and you can go on YouTube and you can learn how to play and you can learn

Satriani licks and Steve Vai licks and learn how to play like Jimi Hendrix but okay it's like like my dad said those are right notes

but where's the soul where's the feeling Like my dad said Those are right notes But Where's the soul Where's the feeling And isn't this what it's all about Yeah Okay So yeah Let me hear you

Let me hear what you got to say What was your first song Where you felt like I'm finally talking to people First song Like you felt you wrote That I feel like you're talking to people I don't know about song

I think Or session I think nowadays I think I've always had something to say But I think now more than ever I've been able to express myself honestly And I think it's just because I've You know, over the years

Accumulated a certain amount of experience And information To be able to express myself And also live the little life A little bit, you know To have some ups and downs And some trials and tribulations And some great moments

And some heartbreaks And I broke some hearts and, and all types of shit. And, and, and, uh, you know, taking all of that with me and really,

really, really just, uh, being true to myself. And at this point in my life, I'm like, you know, Hey,

if you want to be the baddest guitar player in the world, go ahead. Right. Just know that you're going to hear somebody that can fucking, you know, shred really, really, really, really good. Yeah. And it's always going to be somebody with a perspective and a way of doing things that are way different than yours.

It doesn't make them better. It's just different. And so I want to be whatever I'm going to be. And I feel like I'm a very simple guitar player. Some people say, oh, you're very technical. I don't know about that. But maybe I am in certain ways. But maybe the technicality comes from the way that I think

more so than what I do. And that's what happens with a lot of colleges. I'm not knocking, but at all. I think education is great. No, talk that shit. Tell me about Berklee. No, I'm not knocking, but at all, you know, I think education is great. No, talk that shit. Tell me about Berkeley. I think, you know, what we have

done, I think, first of all, I think education, I'm an advocate about education. I think you should be educated. You should know music theory. You should be able to know whatever you can know to not have a limitation But

I am not an advocate Of trying to Have a curriculum To sound like someone Or to You cannot teach someone how to feel Right That's why I didn't understand classical music

Just to like I mean it's great to learn The technique But like Isn't music about Creating your own stuff Yeah Well I think that's

I think classical is a whole Another monster in itself Which is Necessary Because you know Sometimes the feeling Is in the composition And I think that's more

Of what it is Like I can still listen to Chopin or Beethoven or Mozart And Learn something from it And I think I'm sure those guys

Were super passionate About getting their shit Right And so that passion Spilled out Into The music And the recordings

And the music That they wrote. They made sure that they used the right signs and symbols and stuff for people to play that emotion. And I wouldn't doubt that some of that stuff was improvised and then jotted down.

And so that might have been their way of doing it. Now, am I a classical musician? No, I think the technique is great, and I think that some of the progressions are marvelous. I mean, you look at a pianist like Art Tatum, who studied classical music, and took the classical music, and took the structure,

took some of the language of it, and then distressed it and used jazz harmonies and everything and just made a whole thing. Same thing with Lenny Bro. He was super dope. And he took a little bit of Chet Atkins and Merle Travis and all of those people, along with the classical Lee Train stuff and the flamenco playing

and then the jazz and then some of the R&B stuff that was soul stuff that was happening during that day. And he applied it. So I think anything that... I can't criticize anything that anyone was moved by. Some people have moved by

those classical compositions. but get back to what you're talking about education but yeah education i think that you know i think i said exactly what i wanted to say what it was that um it's one thing to be educated about music and then there's another thing to to be taught this is how you improvise. Right. This is how you feel. That you're going to be a clone. And we found out there's a lot of clones.

We shouldn't be playing the same thing that Charlie Parker played. I think that we learn those things and be inspired by that. And that should trigger some ideas in us to be able to have our own voice and say something. Because typically, that's what they did you know you had standards the standards were songs of that were popular that during those times and they improvised over those things how they felt right and so how would you do all the things you are do you have to swing it do you have to do this type of bebop chop over that yeah is there a right or wrong way to improvise i think that and you know there is um a language that is that is there that you respect

but then take it somewhere right i'm saying do something with it don't don't don't be limited to something and and and the music doesn't go anywhere. Yeah. You know, 70 years later. Yeah. God, it's so amazing how music and life are so parallel. Because like you said, you didn't want to be that strict dad that your dad was. But you also want to learn the good things about it to be your own person. I feel like it's the same conversation we're having about music. It's like you don't want like it's the same conversation we're having about music. It's like, you don't want to

do exactly the same thing, but I want to learn from it and do my own thing. And that's the beautiful thing about music, right? Yeah, yeah. The moment you try to The moment that you try to How can I say this in a very, very

non-X-rated way? How can I say this in a very very Non X rated way It's okay this is a NC-17 show You'll be very unsatisfied If you decide to make love With someone else's body Right Okay

That makes sense You can't You have to use Your own body Otherwise you won't Feel anything Right Right

Holy shit I'm clapping At that Right And that's just One aspect of it You know But like

You know In another way You could say this What you eat Don't make me shit Right Right Right

Yeah So You know What I eat Is gonna make me shit right right right yeah so you know what i eat is gonna make me shit so let me be able to do say what i have to say let me do what i have to do what i this is how i feel this is where i'm at that's how you are and and that that makes it more exciting that's it makes it more way more exciting when it's you know more to, man. That's why I didn't understand A&R. You know? Like old school A&R.

It's a little changed now where artists have a little more control. But like, when you're getting million dollar deals back in the day and you had these A&R guys just telling you, oh, we're shelving that record.

We don't think that's it. You know? But it's so, it's... Well, a lot of the record labels, the people that work there are, you know, the high ups that don't have anything to do with music. They are like car salesmen.

They're, you know, people who sell insurance and all that type of stuff. And they're looking for... You look at it like this. What's the biggest hit right now, right? Right. In this genre. Okay, you're trying to be in that genre.

Let's see if it matches that hit. Right. Because that's what made us a lot of money. So we want to stick in that genre Let's see if it matches That hit Right Cause that's what made us a lot of money So we want to stick to that It's no different from cars Right You look at a Lincoln You look at a Cadillac

But that Navigator is the same car Exactly As an Escalade Yeah Just different name But like it's the same philosophy You're talking about like

Learning from Chopin And not doing Chopin So what It's like this It's like same philosophy you're talking about, like learning from Chopin and not doing Chopin. So it's like this back and forth of the industry wants us to be Chopin, but we want to be us. Like, how do we say fuck all that and be us? Yeah, you know, you say, okay, how different is a Nissan from a Toyota? Yeah. You know? Or like I said, Lincoln from a Toyota. Yeah. You know? Or like I said, a Lincoln from a Cadillac.

Right. Or, you know, a Tahoe or whatever. You know, like a Yukon and a Tahoe. What's the difference? If you really think about it, it's small little things.

Yeah. But it's like, oh, that's sold, so let us, our company will make the same thing, but it's going to be, we're going to add

this little thing. It's the same thing, you know, with some instrument companies. Right. We've seen certain types of style guitars before. What's the next one? Right.

What's the next thing that's going to make something different? You don't have to. We don't have to make duplicates. Right. You know what I mean? Progress. Yeah, progress. And expand.

You know what I mean? So when you see a clavinavinet You saw a clavinet You saw a roach You saw a roach You saw a whirlitzer A whirlitzer doesn't do What a roach does Right

An organ doesn't do What a, you know Farfisa does You know, it's different It's just different stuff That's what I appreciate about A lot of the The older things

It was the first of its kind. You know, when do we create some more innovative things? I'm not saying that nothing's innovative, but okay, they did that.

What are you going to do? Let's basically progress. Let's progress, man. Let's progress. Yeah. Well, let's progress out of this conversation

because I really did enjoy that and let's keep it there. Thank you. Isaiah, thanks for being on the show. I know you're a busy's keep it there. Thank you. Isaiah, thanks for being on the show. I know you're a busy guy. Big fan. Thank you.

I love what you do and maybe one day we'll share a stage together. Absolutely, man. Thank you for having me. Thanks, buddy. You tuned in to the World Seventy Podcast with Andy Fresco.

Thank you for listening to this episode produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angelo, and Chris Lawrence. We need you to help us save the world and spread the word please subscribe rate the show give us those crazy stars itunes spotify wherever you're picking this shit up follow us on instagram at world saving podcast for more info and updates fresco's blogs and tour dates you'll find at andyfresco.com

and check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain. And after a year of keeping clean and playing safe, the band is back on tour.

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