Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 212: Andrew McMahon (In the Wilderness & Something Corporate)

Episode Date: March 28, 2023

Watch this episode streaming now!! As the West Coast Tour wraps up, Andy is joined by our dear brother Damn Skippy as we reflect upon the mustaches grown, the sleep deprived, and the mushrooms consumed. What was it all for? Oh yeah: FOR FUN AND PLEASURE. On the Interview Hour we got a real legend and personal hero of ours, Andrew McMahon! Frasco lets on how much Mr McMahon's music influences and his sartorial choices inspire. Frasco may even garner some sage wisdom along the way. And don't forget to check out andrewmcmahon.com for more info and tour dates. Party hard, sleep late, and follow that bliss of yours. Psyched to partner up with our buddies at Volume.com! Check out their roster of upcoming live events and on-demand shows to enrich that sweet life of yours. And don't forget to catch the band in a town near you andyfrasco.com/tour Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out our good friends that help us unwind and sleep easy while on the road and at home: dialedingummies.com Check out Andy Frasco & The U.N. (Feat Little Stranger)'s new song, "Oh, What A Life" on iTunes, Spotify  Produced by Andy Frasco, Joe Angelhow, & Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: The Guy Around the Corner "Clark" Westby Nick Gerlach Shawn Eckels Damn Skippy (Alex Veazey) Arno Bakker

Hey Andy, it's the guy around the corner that you were hanging out with last night. You forgot your wallet over here and I just didn't know if you wanted me to mail it back to you or if I should just spend the money in it. And you have a couple of dollar bills that might be rolled up in here. So what have you been doing lately, guy? and you have a couple of dollar bills that might be rolled up in here. So what have you been doing lately, guy? Andy, dude, I really do want to watch Cocaine Bear with you, but, like, I'm getting a lot of no's here from the more responsible people that seem to want to tell me what to do tonight. Don't tell us.

Come on by, buddy. Hey, Trasky, it's Clark Gridswold. I heard the good news. You fucking little bitch. Andy, Andrew, Drew, it's Clark Gridswold. I heard the good news. You fucking little bitch. Andy, Andrew, Drew, it's your boy, Nicholas G., the co-host. You're on the road, so we haven't seen each other in a while. And while you're on the road, I got a little whiff of saying they wanted to watch Cocaine Bear with you, and then I started wondering, is Andy doing cocaine again?

I never really knew Coc cocaine Andy that well, but I can only assume that it's one of the most insufferable things you could possibly experience on the face of the earth in the history of humanity. So what I'm saying here is maybe no cocaine. I know you're in California and you know, you're probably hanging out with reggae guys again, since you're going to be in San Diego in a couple of days, you know, just go to the beach.

You can drink. No cocaine, okay? You can see cocaine there, though. But don't get any fucking ideas about it. Times have changed. The band is strange. Here we are doing cocaine. Right where to it goes. It's strange, here we are doing cocaine Brian, we're doing blow You could be right, you could be wrong

The bag's so big and the line's so long Brian, we're doing blow Your friend gave us a record deal in a big old fatted face we told this to invest in stocks but we did blow with our fans we played the show we sold it out we met a guy and we bought an ounce we're sorry. We need help. Help us. Let's start the show, baby.

All right, and we're back. Andy Frasco, the World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our minds? Are we not letting two weeks of drinking nonstop fuck with your head, right? That's what I'm talking about. We're feeling good today. I knew where you were staying.

You hear what I'm saying, BZ? I'm staying positive. Holy shit. This has been a lot of days. The gauntlet. Some would call it. We call it the meat grinder. Ah, the meat grinder.

Yes. I feel like I have been put through a metal contraption and squeezed out the other side in tubular form. We got Dan Skippy as my co-host for this episode. If you don't know Dan Skippy, he's in a band called Skiplo. And he's also... I technically think you're in Little Stranger, too. I'm the third hippie.

Some say it is so. Let's go. We get in here. Hey, get over here. Jason, too. It's Jason's birthday. Get over here. It's Jason's birthday. Get over here. Sit over here. What? Is this the probiotic or are you trying to dose me with mushrooms?

This looks like the probiotic. This is the probiotic. Yeah, it's not the mushroom. Yeah, mushrooms are probiotics. It was Jason's birthday last week, guys. Sit down. Sit on his knee. So Jason's going on tour.

Are you going right away on tour with Little Stranger right after this? I have like a week off and then we're going right back out. Let's fucking go. The meat grinder. Yeah, the snorchestra. Little Stranger was worried. They've been texting me saying, you're going to break them.

No, I don't think you can break Skip. But are they going to break you? This is the first time you're going to break them. No, I don't think you can break Skip. But are they going to break you? This is the first time you're going to be sleeping in a cargo van. I'll be stealing their bunks too. Let's go. Happy birthday, Jace.

We love you, buddy. It's great. Vibes are right. Vibes are high. We're so excited. It was the last week of tour and we're feeling good. I'm going to miss you, Skip. Are you going to come back? Are you ever going to come back and do merch for us again? I already told you, if I'm not with Little Stranger, I'm with you guys.

All other bands can get fucked. But it's Little Stranger, Andy Frasco, and the U.N. I love it. What's the difference between the reggae scene? They have reggae scene. They're not a reggae band, but they have a lot of reggae scene. What's the difference between the reggae scene and our scene? Well, first, the way that that was even broken into was shout out to Bad Fish and Cats Like That

who took them on the road at first. Really, the fans of the reggae scene I think it's important that it's just like the same reason that it worked really well with you guys and Little Stranger it comes down to like the live show you know and there's of course like one or two songs with John and Kev like Bag Full of Money

is like a nice like reggae slink like kind of paves the way with them starting with that and then the reggae scene as soon as they hear that and then that fat fucking bass that john brings in comes in they're just like sold i don't give a fuck what you're playing right now i love it it's good shit what about the fan bases who's crunchier are we talking like granola crunch or who we? Who has a crunchier fan base? Our fan base or little stranger.

I'm going to have to say you have a crunchier. Let's fucking go. That's my people. My people. Like you think that they got crunch bars. Granola forever. No, but they're both friendly fan bases,

right? Oh, incredibly. Yeah. Super accepting. Like everybody's just like, I make a thousand friends at the fucking merge table every night. You know, But they're both friendly fan bases, right? Oh, incredibly. Yeah. Super accepting. Like, everybody's just like, I make a thousand friends at the fucking merch table every night. You know? It's not just because I'm trying to slang t-shirts.

It's literally like, you're making genuine connections with people, which is cool shit. I love it. Man, we've had some memories on this tour, man. We really have. It's been fun as hell. Everyone, I feel bad for the weed growers here because because right it's weed is so cheap now all these like all these like we're in nevada city right now and they are just they can't sell it to save their life like they're selling pounds for like 500 it's fucking crazy dude like i hope they're

just running it through like those manual trimmers and shit because when when we did it back in the day it was like you had to sit there with your boys and trim for a fucking week straight. Sean does that. Sean, do you still trim? Oh, he can't hear you. I think he does. He makes dope. I mean, Colorado, they're making bank off weed. Do you still trim, Sean?

Why still trim? Trim. Let's get Sean in here Sean Eccles Sean get in here I haven't seen Sean Get in here Here this early

Here take a seat I never I haven't seen you this early Up This is the day walker The day walker You got a mustache too Did you make a mustache?

I make mustaches Yeah He makes mustaches Make mustaches How's it going? It's going good, man. I slept in the van, you know? You slept in the van?

Yeah, we got nice memory foam bunks and stuff, but, you know, the sun beats down. The thing is hot as fuck. It gets hot. Is the AC working right now? Somebody go crawl in your bed for a little bit. Yeah, go ahead. Is the AC working right now? The AC doesn't fucking work, bro.

We need to charge the van. Oh, it's charged. And it's on work. What's going on, man? I tried knocking on it, you know, hitting the Fazzarelli. Did you try blowing in the vents? Like Nintendo? Like a Nintendo cartridge?

Yeah, yeah. Didn't work. Doesn't fucking work, bro. But we're good. Everything's good. How are you feeling? Tired? I'm really tired, yeah.

We did 900 shows in 10 days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go watch Cocaine Bear today. Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm down. We can watch it on Amazon. I'm going to eat a little food today.

I think I'm going to smoke a pound of weed. Yeah. A pound. A solid do it. Let's do it. I'm down. We can watch on Amazon. I'm going to eat a little food today. I'm going to smoke a pound of weed. Yeah. A solid pound. Yeah. I love it. Hopefully you can get one for $500. You ready to see Toby? Oh, man.

She's coming to LA. She's coming to the Troubadour. Coming in hot. What are you guys going to do? You guys going to see your brother? Yeah. We're going to see Joel, Nicky, and we're going to smoke a bunch of weed. Yeah.

Are you staying there for an extra day or two? My brother lives in Laurel Canyon. We're going to stay at his place. For a couple days? Yeah, until Monday. Oh, cool. Speaking of weed, Dialed In Gummies are great, aren't they? This is the biggest sponsor of Dialed In Gummies. Dialed In Gummies. Give it to them. Was it rosin-based?

Hold that. Fucking incredible people. I eat up to 50 to 60 milligrams at a time now And I get fucked up on those things It's pretty awesome Just drift away Sail away in the night

My wife Toby will eat 250 milligrams What the fuck? She's a crazy person I got her that There's a thousand milligram bottle of tincture That they left us here at the band house And you're going to gift it to her? She's going to love it

How are you going to fly with that? I'm not Oh, we're going to drive it back her? She's going to love it. How are you going to fly with that? Oh, we're going to drive it back. That's right. That's our guy. In the trail. Unless you're police, we are not going to drive it back. We never drive with anything. Never, never. Sean Eccles, go get some sleep. You're killing it, buddy. Give it up for Sean Eccles. Wow. Our guy. Our show

pony. Looking skinny, working out every day. Just fucking I might run today. He might go on a run today. He's been at the gym every fucking morning we've been at a hotel with a gym. This man's just in there like, he went twice in one night. The fuck is wrong with people?

Twice in one night. I went to the gym. I didn't really go to sleep, but I went to sleep at like 5.30 in the morning. I was at the gym at 8. Let's fucking go. Our guy's getting healthy.

I'm fucking killing myself. Fucking killing himself. Sean Eccles, rock god, extraordinaire. He went from ripped to ripped. Oh, man. We're going to have a great week. We have Andrew McMahon from Something Corporate On the show

He was Andrew McMahon Well he was in Jack's Mannequin He's now in the band Andrew McMahon Into the Wilderness He's the reason why I play piano He's the reason why I wear sandals He's the reason why I wear

Bun down shirts He is the reason why I got into pop punk music, the reason why I got an internship at Drive Thru Records because he was on Drive Thru Records. It was like a complete meta situation, or it was like a full circle situation because now I'm a musician, and we got to open for him at Rock Boat or something.

So cool, man. It was awesome. Damn. I didn't know too much about his latest part of his career but so i kept on asking him about all the old school stuff and he gave me all the honest answers you know he fought leukemia holy shit and like went on tour and had to do chemo and then went right back on the road after he was um through chemo. Holy shit. Fucking epic. That's amazing. You're going to love this interview with Andrew McMahon.

Also, volume.com. Guys, the video component is on volume.com. Yes, that is our new network. The World Saving Podcast is on volume.com. If you're not watching, if you want to watch our videos, if you want to watch us instead of listening to us on Apple or Spotify and see how hungover we really are

after 14 shows in a row, or probably now it's 17. It's a lot. Head to volume.com, watch the show. We got some great things. Volume.com is a live stream website where you can watch all your favorite bands

perform live and you can watch your favorite podcasts on, I'm not saying ours is your favorite podcast, but I hope it is because we love you very much and we love our fans. So head to volume.com Also, if you're in a band, if you're a creator, if you want to eat dialed in gummies

or, you know, I don't know if you could do the only fan thing Maybe you could do the only fan thing on Volume. I mean, I think you could pull it off. I'm down. Let's get volume.com on the line real quick. Volume.com slash Andy's feet. If you want to see me

wash my dirty feet, I will be on volume.com as well. But if you want to be a creator, go to volume.com slash creator and yeah, get your stuff up there. And bands, a lot of bands listen to this podcast. Start doing some live streams or start putting your shows on volume.com. All it does is help.

It helps, it helps, it helps to get your content out there. Besides just using YouTube, let's use all the platforms to get your music out there. Right? It's important. And then instead of just listening to our beautiful voices, you get to see our beautiful faces. Yes. That's what I'm talking about.

So head to volume.com for all your favorite bands. And if you want to watch us on, because we're not on YouTube anymore. We're only on volume.com. So do it up for us. There's enough on YouTube. You got to spread your limbs. Yeah on YouTube. You got to spread your limbs. Yeah, yeah. I don't want YouTube to be the monopoly

anymore. I want everyone to have their cake and eat it too. You know what I'm saying? You are a freedom fighter if I've ever met one. I fight for the people. I'm a people fighter. He fights for the people, for you. For you, America. For you. Alright. Have a great fighter. He fights for the people, for you. For you, America. For you.

All right. Have a great week. Andrew McMahon, I'm so excited for you to listen to this. Even if you don't know something corporate or Jack's mannequin or his band Into the Wilderness, I mean, he's the biggest he's ever been now with his new band. Listen to this interview. Listen to me geek out a little bit because, you know, when I'm really interested in the guests, I'm dialed in.

No pun intended. Like a gummy. Like a gummy. So you're going to love this interview. Do you have any motivation for the people, Skippy? Because this is the last – I'm not going to see you for, what, a couple months? I hope not. I'm going to fly to Charleston and go hang out with you. Yeah, you got to yeah um and i'll come to denver any fucking time okay cool

yeah and then this isn't goodbye we're not none of us are gonna say goodbye okay my grandmother used to always say she she wouldn't say goodbye she'd say so long oh you know what i'll see you on 422 yeah for the little stranger cervantes set you set. Okay, so 23, right? 423. So 22nd, we're at Red Rocks. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then the next day, you're at?

Cervantes. Perfect. All right, cool. So Denver, a lot of Denver listeners, go watch. They're almost sold out. Let's sell. Come on. Denver, let's sell it out for the boys.

Little Stranger at Cervantes. Sell it out for the boys. Let's fucking go Cervantes. Sell it out for the boys. Let's fucking go. Let's fucking go. You guys need a place to crash? You can sleep with me. Can I? Yeah.

I would love that. Get the boys. Save some money. Hell yeah. All right, cool. Can I sleep in your bed? Fuck yeah. Can we all sleep in your bed?

Dude, it's a California king, baby. Let's go. Let's fuck. So any direction? Is that California? Or is the California king longer? I want your booty right. I want to be Big Spoon, okay?

Unless we're forking. Oh, man. You got any motivation for the people to make sure they have a great week this week? Yeah. Well, if there's anything that I've learned from Andy Frasco, it's that be yourself. Don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks. Yeah, fuck them. Get out there. Enjoy your fucking life because it's short. It's that be yourself. Don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks. Yeah, fuck them. Get out there.

Enjoy your fucking life because it's short. It could end any fucking day. Yeah. You know? And if they don't know this, I mean, they need to tune the fuck in on Mondays, first of all. My weekly therapy sessions with this man right here.

That's my guy. But keep the people you love close to you, man. Fucking party hard as fuck. Sleep late unless you got van call. We haven't been able to sleep late. No. No. I feel like a crackhead right now.

Sleep in the van. Sleep in the car. Fuck sleep. Just live. I fucking love you, Vs. I love you, Doug. You're the best. We some men.

We some fucking men. It's been a pleasure in my life to have three weeks with you, brother. Thanks, bud. I hope we can have more. Yeah. All right, guys. Enjoy. I'm Andrew McMahon, and we'll see you next week.

See you then. Bye. Peace. Peace. Peace. in the cold telling secrets under starlight with the blue light of the cop cars getting close

we were climbing through the branches of a tree Andrew McMahon, hell yes how's it going brother? man, um Andrew McMahon, hell yes. How's it going, brother? Man, I don't think you know how important you are to the growth of my life. And I just want to, we'll talk about it all in a little bit.

But we met on Rock Boat. Excuse me. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, and I worked at Drive Thru Records when I was 15. And the only reason why I wanted an internship at Drive Thru Records was because of something corporate. No way. That's amazing. I feel like we might have talked about it on the boat, but that's awesome, man.

I appreciate that. I'm a big fan, man. You're the reason why I wear rainbow sandals when I was in high school. You're the reason why I wore button-down white shirts. You're the reason why I wear rainbow sandals when I was in high school. You're the reason why I wore button down white shirts. You're the reason why I play piano for real. So I just wanted to know. I'm a big, you're one of my idols. So this is going to be, I'm looking forward to this. So let's get this thing popping. Okay. All right. First, do you mind we talk about the something corporate years? I don't mind at all. Okay, cool. So I was always curious, you know, because I was looking at those deals, those record deals.

Because Drive-Thru was such a family that once you made, you know, because of the Geffen deals and the MCA deals, after you reached like 100,000 units, they bumped you to MCA. Was that hard to get away from the drive-thru family? Or were you like at that point, because leaving through the window was an amazing record, but was it kind of that transition of going to a major freaky because you didn't really have that family that felt like more of a machine?

So I'll let you in on a secret, which is not such a secret but um we were actually only ever officially signed to mca really yeah so so you know when when when drive-thru came and and found something corporate right i mean i think if you i mean it sounds like you know a lot of the early something corporate stuff like we were pretty far from a punk band i didn't really know anything about punk music other than like you know like you know i mean obviously i came up listening to like bad religion and and and you know there were there were certain punk acts that i that i dug but i was like i was more of like a petty and a billy joel guy right and so we we had actually already been doing a development deal with um at the time with inner scope and and like frankly i i

i didn't have any interest in being signed an independent label i thought it was going to be too expensive to tour with the piano and i really didn't want to tour with the keyboard and so i had all these you know i had sort of had this like perception in my mind since i was nine years old of like what i really wanted and i was like i wanted to be on a major label and um and then drive-thru came calling but they were like their passion was so much so much deeper i think than even some of the other labels that had expressed interest in the band and and you know they sort of told us what a deal would look like what the drive-thru deal would be and we were just like i i mean we knew in our heart of hearts, like one, we had other labels that were interested, but two, we just like, we needed more money to fire up the operation. Right.

It was just like, you know, like there were so many things that we were going to have to do to do them well. It wasn't, you know, going to be able to just be like, hey, you get a van and, you know, 15 grand for gear and then, you know, hope you can stay alive. Right. And, you know, and I had to pull guys out of college and there was like, Oh, there was a whole lot of, there was a whole lot of stuff. And so, you know, we basically said, look, we really want to be a part of drive-through. Um, but we need to know that, that there's the major, that we need to know that we're going to get a major label push on our,

on our, on our record, you know, and, and that we're going to have that major label push on our on our on our record you know and and that we're going to have that support there and and um and so drive-thru did a thing with us that i don't know that they did with anybody else which is you know in order to make sure that we were part of the family they uh they brought us directly to gary ashley at mca and we did the deal with them directly but with drive-thru written into it as-through written into it as obviously a partner in our branding and our development. And so the transition, I guess, to answer the question the longest way possible,

the transition really wasn't so tricky for us because we were so deeply embedded in that MCA world from the jump. I think at times it was harder maybe for richard and stephanie because they didn't get to have the same level of involvement in right the a and r and the development on the music side as they did with their other acts um but they were still obviously you know very um very supportive and and and despite the kind of circuitous route we took, they were, uh, you know, always in our corner and, and obviously touring with all the drive-through acts and being a part of that,

that scene was so integral to the, the, the growth and the trajectory of, of something corporate success. Yeah. You know, and I, and I think about that too, cause you totally are a petty, you totally a billy joel that it was it was it a hard transition when you're starting getting these like tour like offerings and like getting these co-bills with the newfound glories of the world and did you feel like you're having this like existential crisis like this isn't the route i need to be going on i wouldn't say that it was an existential crisis i mean i think at some points there

was an identity crisis you know i think there were there were points where like um you know there were there were times where it'd be like i would look out at a crowd you know we'd be opening for you know it you name a name a punk band we got to play with so many awesome but like you know and kids would be like moshing to kavanaugh park right yeah exactly yeah and like and you know and so i and i think that there was like and i think unfair even to the scene in general i think there was sort of an intention of um sort of the mainstream music press and fans and radio and all these things to sort of uh you know pat pat bands from the scene on the head and say oh yeah you're for the kids right you know so i think there was there were times where i felt like that was a little unfair yeah but we were kids too

we were writing we were writing songs about you know about coming of age from high school into being young and on the road and college age. And so I think more than anything, that characterization isn't far off, but I think there were times where it felt like we didn't really get taken as seriously as I thought we might have. But it was such a, like, it was a trade-off though that was so well worth it and i mean i i like i didn't come up playing with those bands and playing for those fans and and really

getting embedded into a scene even if i didn't feel like initially like it made it didn't make a lot of sense to me but the fact that we were adopted there um and so lovingly like it became this thing was like i look back at it now and i'm just like wow like how bizarre and how beautiful to have been able to be you know at the sort of ground floor of that that moment you know um in the early 2000s ands and get to ride that wave with so many friends. And I don't think that we would have had that if we had done that Interscope deal or if we had sort of taken another route

that didn't place us on those stages. Because I just think there was so much heart to that scene and I was really lucky to be a part of it. Yeah, because I remember those first years was so much heart to that uh to that scene and i was really lucky to be a part of it yeah because i remember those first years when you're you know i went to a bunch of your house of blues shows in la those were like when you're starting to really start to pop you're starting to sell out house of blues orange county started to sell out house blues in hollywood and i knew something was waste it's you know it's like the same exact example that Steel Train with the drive-thru thing. Steel Train became, you know, Jack became Jack.

And like, he wasn't part of that culture in that scene. So I'm like, I'm wondering, do you think when people put bands in a box, in a genre, do you think that fucks up the trajectory of a band? You know, I mean, I'm certain it it changes the trajectory and it's so hard to it's so hard to like pull the lens back and be like well what if we did this it's like that's not how it happened right you know and i think you have to make use of of whatever luck coincides with your hard work right and and i don't think you know mean, I think in the case of Steel Train, maybe it did fuck them up, right? Yeah.

Like, because I don't, like, they were, I think they were even farther afield of what something corporate might have been in that scene. You know what I mean? It's like, that first EP was like a Beatles record. You know what I mean? Like, it's great. Like, I love Steel Train. Like I love steel train. Um, but I do think, you know, at least in the case of, of my career, uh, you know, I think there, there are times where like you go, Hey, I'm like, I'm, I came from a scene, but it doesn't mean I'm making like scene oriented music. Right. And like, I've sort of changed my name and shapeshifted multiple times. I think in some ways to just accommodate my ability to not be like, not be pigeonholed, you know, I think there is like a,

I think there is a thing that, you know, if you do, if you do wind up affiliated with a scene, it is important that if, if you don't, you know, if you don't feel like you can honor that by, by repeatedly making the kind of music that like fits you into into that box then you have to be willing to take chances and take risks to to pull yourself out of it and and recontextualize yourself but you know at the end of the day being able to play in front of massive crowds of people and have them like what you do, like that's our job, right? So wherever, wherever you have to go to, to, um, you know, to do that, as long as you're

being true to what you create, you know, I think that's really the most important thing. How, how important is it for, for you to not be in a box? You know, like you have all your projects have been so, you know, they're very different in a way, but know, like, you have, all your projects have been so, you know, they're very different in a way, but they, the core is you, Andrew. And so, like, you know, you had your surfer years, I feel like you've, you had your, you know, when you're going through

cancer and all those songs, those poetic songs about how you're living through that. How important is, you know, not, you know, being free, I guess, is the question I'm saying. Is freedom important to you? It's very important to me. I mean, I think it's the most important thing to me. You know, as soon as I feel trapped in something, like, I can't produce, right? And I haven't and, and, and so, and I, and I haven't felt that

way in a very long time. Right. I think there are multiple iterations of that in what we do, right. You can be stuck in a label deal. You can be, you can, you know, be attached to collaborators that you don't feel like you're connecting with. You know, I think the, the weird thing for me is that it's like, I want to do a high level of business and I want to have really great collaborations. Right. But I think the reason I sort of transitioned into being more of an autonomous figure is it gives me the freedom to move into different spaces with different collaborators, working with and, and different people on the business side. And, uh, and I, and I, I think that lack of protection, you know, and the fear that is associated with that lack of protection is actually where I get a lot of my inspiration from, right? Like not knowing that I have the attachment of a, a, a band name or the safety of a scene or,

you know, or, or, you know, I think those are the things that have always inspired me. Like, you know, having to, having to, you know, sing for my supper, so to speak. Right. Like knowing, knowing that I have to do the hard work for it to work is, is really important to me staying inspired. Yeah, totally. I kind of, I, you know, you know, I overanalyze everything. It's my neurotic Jewish mind, but when you put out North, I really felt like my man's

going solo. I don't know. I just had this weird feeling, bro. I had this weird feeling when North came out. I didn't know there, I, you know, I don't want it. You don't have to go into like maybe the chemistry or the band at that time, but I just had this feeling in the lyrics that you wanted to find another path for yourself. You know, it's interesting because I don't know if I felt that way going into North. I don't think I consciously was aware of it. I actually think that interestingly, the time that we were recording North, like the bulk of the studio sessions, for the most part, we were as locked up as we had been in a long time. There was a there was like a real like we got out of town. We were like living in this house in Washington together and the studio was just underneath.

And we really were on a mission. studio was just underneath and we really were on a mission and i do think there was i think a part of that mission was like we definitely wanted not i don't think intentionally to distance ourselves from from drive through or from the or from the scene but i do think we were really trying to do something that that like that cut a deeper groove for the band. You know, we, you know, like we were listening to Radiohead and Coldplay. And like, you know, the, there was sort of an, I think an intentionality on that album to be a little moodier with it. You know, like if we had our high school,

like these are the songs we wrote when we were 16, 17 years old. This was going to be the record that we wrote as we wrote into our twenties, you know? And I think just all the travel and being away from my girlfriend years old this was going to be the record that we wrote as we wrote into our 20s you know and and and and i think just all the travel and being away from my girlfriend and all like and and yeah some of the identity crisis stuff that was all baked into into that record so it was definitely a more like emotive kind of you know sad yeah sad out there sure but but you know it was it was sad but it was inspiring it just

felt like the come it was it felt like a coming of age it felt like we are getting older and we can't dread about the past and all we could do is move forward right yeah and there's so i mean there's songs that i love i love that record and there were definitely i think we were really taking chances you know what i mean when we doing songs like me and the moon and and uh uh you know she paints me blue and just some of the stuff that we were doing on that record i think um you know i was really proud of that and proud of the band you know because we had been man we had been locked up next to each other for years at that point. And, and it was getting harder, um, at times like the, you know, the, we didn't fight all the time, but when we fought, like we didn't always fight fair, you know? And, and, and I, you know, that's just a part of being in a band and being cooped up and, and also do like becoming

grown men, like in like sharing, sharing, you know, bunk, bunk, uh, you know, the bunk area and being on top of each other just permanently. Um, but yeah, it definitely, there was, there was a thread of, of, you know, us coming apart in the, in the, in the following of that record. Yeah. I felt that. I felt like the chemistry between you and William was kind of off, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think that's a fair assessment.

You know, like I love Will and we're still friends to this day. But I think that he was sort of the first with an eye on the exits, you know, because he was the newest member of the band. He really joined, he joined something corporate sort of in the months leading up to our signing.

Because our other guitar player, Ruben, had taken a term abroad in Italy in college. And the chemistry was so good with Will that we ended up letting Ruben go and saying, like, okay, we'll do this. okay, like we'll do this. But I think when things started getting a little harder, whether it be with like, you know, the GEF and MCA getting taken over by GEF and us losing our guy and all that, I think there was sort of this energy where it was like, you know,

you could sense William sort of wanting to leave. And that made, I think, arguments a little harder. Like when everybody else, I felt a little more invested. And then all of a sudden you like you know it's like anytime you fight like it's like it's a you have somebody who who has their foot out the door at a job you know they're always way more inclined to burn it down every day exactly they're holding the mats dude they're holding the fucking mats but i i don't but i don't begrudge that to him at all. I was not a great band leader. And I think we were just young. I mean, I think all of us got a lot of forgiveness for everything that went on in that time because everybody's found amazing lives for themselves outside of what we did. And I think now more than ever has a real appreciation of the fact that we had that time together and made that music. now more than ever has like a real appreciation of the fact that we had that time together and made that music yeah looking back at it what do you think you know what do you think you would have changed as a band leader back then versus how you are how do you approach band leading now

well i i mean it's such a silly you know uh overwrought statement but not sweating the small stuff i think she you know yeah i think there's just an energy and i find this when i like anytime i write with younger artists or or you know take out younger bands on the road um i think there is like a sense that every decision is do or die that like every t-shirt design you know matters and it's not that you shouldn't care, but like when you, when you're five people making decisions, you have to, you have to be willing to yield when it doesn't really matter that much to you and you have to learn what matters to you. And I, I think for me, I was like, you know, it had been my dream for so long. And, and I think

in the early days of something corporate, because I was, you know, often the one spearheading kind of like I was the de facto manager for, you know, and I was the one who would call the coach house and try and get us booked. And I, so I think because I played that role early on when, when everybody was more hands-on, I got like a little resentful. And I think that, you know, of course, everybody should feel super hands-on. It's their lives. It's their livelihood. They've given up college and chosen this. You know, it's like, you know, I'm getting a pretty good publishing check.

Like these guys are working for, you know, for the record sales and for the touring. And, you know, and so I think that I just would that I just would have tried to be a little bit more compassionate and a little less domineering for sure. Were your parents growing up? I'm the same way, bro. I've been in a band for 15 years. I followed your path of micromanaging and making sure everything gets done. Who taught you that? Were your parents really strict on you? Did they teach you business savvy? Who got you into really being hands-on? So yeah, my parents were both successful business people, right? My father came up uh as a as a uh manager at at major department stores so he like he ran bloomingdales and he was a vp for gap for a while and victoria's secret and like you know so he kind of he was in

that um very sort of professional suit and tie like you know work 10 hours a day kind of dude right so i and i always like i loved going to his stores you know where he 10 hours a day kind of dude. Right. So I, and I always like, I loved going to his stores where, you know, where he, where he worked and, and saw like, he, he had a tremendous work ethic, you know, um, there's, there's sort of a work ethic just built into the DNA of the family. Um, I think some of it is innate, you know, like there, there's some things that I, I watched my, my, my uncle was an incredible entrepreneur in the entertainment industry, and he was a real idol of mine growing up. And then all through high school, my mom managed an

inn in Dana Point. And I worked for her from the time I was in eighth, until I graduated in the hospitality business. I was running bags and, and, and, um, you know, doing, doing everything from making beds to putting out afternoon tea and giving tours of the hotel. And I, you know, I hustled for tips, you know, and that was like, you know, and I w I would work, you know, I'd work 16 hours on the weekend because I, when I got off my shift, I'd have hundreds of dollars in my pocket and I could do whatever I wanted, you know? And so it was just sort of like, it's just sort of a part of how my family's always been. You know, we get jobs, you get your job when you can get your first, uh,

what do you call it? What's the, the, the, your, the permission slip you get. Whatever you, whatever you like, you go get a job, you know, like, yeah, but they weren't, uh, but they weren't uh but they weren't they weren't strict uh parents by any means you know they were super supportive of what i did and i worked for both of them at different points in my in my life and and they were just badass hard-working people so when you first tell them you know because they seem like business like music industry isn't like a big you know money maker idea when you're 16 who is the one who really said when you're like i'm focused on being a songwriter i'm focused on taking this

out to the people was there resentment with your parents first or did they believe in it at first or did you have to show like show them results for them to be proud of you no no they were i mean they were so uh they were so into my music my parents were like my biggest fan awesome honest it's fucking like they i mean i started writing songs when i was a kid um and i mean when i was gosh like 10 or 11 my mom and we we had fallen on hard times and my mom took every dollar that she had and would drive me you know an hour and a half both ways to like a record producer she found in the yellow pages in ohio so that i could make my demo tape you know what i mean like you know amazing there was a you know you know but it's weird because they they they walked this line they were like not even

not even close to what you would consider a stage parent. They didn't... There was never any... It was just more like, if I asked... At 10, I was like, I need piano lessons. I need to get better at this. So they got me piano lessons. But when I stopped wanting to show up, they didn't say a word about it.

There was this really cool push and pull where they let my passion steer. And they would meet me where my passion was and they would support it um but they knew i mean they knew i wasn't gonna do anything else and i made it fairly easy on them you know because by by my senior year of high school like i was you know i was working with some really great local promoters, and the band was getting shows every month. And by the time I graduated, we were selling out four or five hundred seat venues in Orange County. Like Glass House or Glass House or what Orange County venues were that? We were mostly out of the Coach House and the Galaxy. The Galaxy is now the Observatory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. of the coach house and the galaxy the galaxy is now the observatory um and then we would also we

would we would occasionally roll up and do like i want to say like the mint or the roxy or the whiskey um you know we would yeah we would bake an la club in there every now and again but um But my mom did, she did sort of like put a stipulation on me not going to college that I would defer. I had to take my SAT. I had to apply. And I had to defer enrollment for a year. And we made this deal. If I'm not signed by the year after I graduate, then I'll go to college, which I knew I was never going to do.

But miraculously, we signed our deal with DriveThru and CA almost a year to date from my graduation. My parents did the same thing to me, bud. It's fucking crazy. We have parallel. I grew up in LA. I grew up in West Hills, Calabasas.

And I had the same hustle. And that's why I was... First of all, shout out to your parents. Let's go. Shout out to your parents. Let's go. Yes. You're going through control. When you had leukemia and this total uncontrollable thing, give me your mind state. What was going on? Thank God you found it early. I know you're having laryngitis or something. You're losing your voice a lot.

Can you go through the process a little bit for my fans who don't know the backstory? Well, yeah. I guess it was probably the spring of 05 we were just sort of quietly starting to to you know let songs from the jacks manikin record out you know and we were really cautious i was really being protective of like i didn't want there to ever be like a andrew mcmahon from something corporate is right so we did this very kind of like clandestine where we would go to, to fan, fan sites and, and sort of, uh, music blogs. And we would kind of give them a song and we would hint at it, but never really say it was me. We didn't promote that. We didn't promote my

name or something corporate in association with Jack's Manic. And we just, and we just went on tour. We, we got in the van and we just started playing shows um and it was it was really getting exciting like i loved i was signed by maverick i had this amazing team at maverick who were like ready to go hard in the paint for for jack's mannequin and it was like and i loved the record and um so it was just this like really i mean it was just like we we were just it felt like getting shot out of a freaking can you know like all this there was all this excitement and i was like starting over with this new project and i and uh and yeah i got sick i i was i was on the road i'd known i wasn't feeling well for a couple of weeks but i i you know you do what you do when

you're a kid like i just was like just smoke more weed drink more you know, you do what you do when you're a kid. Like, I just was like, just smoke more weed, drink more, you know, you're going to get through this thing. And then I couldn't sing. And yeah, so, you know, it's May of 2005, and I'm diagnosed with leukemia while I'm in the middle of the first Jack's Mannequin tour. And, you know, you're right. Like, i think especially in that state like i had i had been a i was in full control finally right like this was my all your dreams i like i knew every note that was played and by who and and and it was just i just baked my whole soul into this record. Right. And, um,

and, and then I, and it, and it was happening. And then all of a sudden it was just like, sorry, you're, you're,

you could die. You know, it's like, you would think, yeah, you would think that my reaction would have been to like, hold on tighter and freak out. But I was,

uh, you know, it could have been shock. It could have been a million things. But I really, in that moment, especially for the year that I was in treatment, things changed afterwards. And I kind of went off the rails a bit. But in the time that I was treating and really having to focus on getting better and taking my chemo and my stem cell transplant, all that, I had a real sense of fate in that moment. It really did feel like it was the universe saying like,

dude, this isn't working for you. Slow down. Like, you know, there was, I think because of so many of the lyrics on that record that referenced hospitals and- Yeah, it was fucking wild, dude. Yeah, like all of all there was you know the i named the project after a song i wrote for a friend who had childhood leukemia and then all

of a sudden i have the same disease you know there's all these there was all this sort of you know mystical bullshit thread through that uh moment in my life that i you know and i you know i had been reading like so much eastern philosophy and, and really like, uh, in that moment, it was like, oh my gosh, like, I'm just like, I'm in the soup here. And this is, I'm supposed to put my hands in the air and just say like, and, and relent and, and, and don't put up a, don't put up a resistance, but instead, like, find some peace. And it really, you know, it weirdly was outside of, of course, like, the most painful parts and some of the real fear and anxiety and the moments where I, you know, felt very close to possibly, you know, going the other direction. Most of that time was a very quiet and peaceful time for me.

And I had a really good perspective, I think, you know, and I was very tuned into the people that I loved and the people that loved me and, and really able to see, um, you know, see life in a much more clear way, you know, that all shifted as soon as I was, as soon as I got better and I got control over my body again and, and, and my career and whatever, then I, I went right back to all the same shit, if not 10 times worse. Yeah. Um, I went to your first show when you came back. You were super skinny and you had no hair. And I remember you were wearing a beanie.

I was like watching you, not like a creep or anything. I guess now that I think about it, I was pretty creeping out, creeping you out a little bit. But I was like watching your eyes in a sense of like, I'm finally back in my dream. Do you think the leukemia made you live again?

Does that make sense? Like made you see that there's more than life and just what we're chasing our dreams about? Briefly, yeah. um briefly yeah i mean i think i think when i was in the middle of it um there was so much clarity and so much peace and so much of an understanding about what mattered um i think the and you know i think the misconception is or at least it is in my case, that everybody just comes out of that time with that appreciation intact, right? And at least in my case, I really, I sort of went the other way. It's not that I didn't have this massive appreciation for the fact that I got to live, right? And that I was one of the lucky ones who

survived you know that was always there there was a humility with that but there was also this sort of sense of having had something taken from me too like you know the the the sort of constant reminding of how fragile you are at a time when all the people around you are just like bulls in china shops you know and and you know you're crazy when you're in your early 20s and there's this this sense of uh of of sort of power that comes with with being that age that had been taken from me right and i and as i was resentful but i didn't realize it was resentment right i didn't i didn't realize what i was pushing up against because I was just like, I was just so out of my mind, you know, but I, I really, I went hard the other direction.

Like I, I, you know, it was just like trying, you know, like I, I had a death wish, you know, for a long time, really. It was like, how hard and how far can I put my hand in this fire before it really gets me? And I lived that way for a lot of years. Not full bore, but it was a roller coaster, right? It was really

inconsistent. And then I finally got my head around it pretty much, but it took a minute. Were you drowning or suppressing with alcohol and drugs or were you drowning or like suppressing with like alcohol and drugs or were you just trying to suppress it with work all of the above i mean it was most i mean i was just i was a i mean i was like a fucking all-day pothead you know what i mean like i was i was high from you know i was like i had a bowl on the side of on the bedside table because if i woke

up like i you know there was no way i was going to go that five minutes without, you know, smoking weed, which I, you know, I like, and you know, I'm all, I'm all for smoking weed. I just, I took it so far to the next level. You know what I mean? It was just like, and, and you know, of course there was everything else was in there too, but, but you know, pot was my biggest crutch for sure. And it was, and it was just like, you know, and, and work, you know, and I, and I was, it was, and it was like a tricky,

it was just a tricky thing because I was, I was kind of running, but I, you know, I, I, I, the business that we're in, that's not like, that's not weird behavior. No, normal. It's just sort of the norm. But I had been living within that norm on some level prior, but I think when you striped on this layer of depression and post-traumatic stress, and then you kind of put it in the cocktail shaker with the partying and endless work, you know, it was just, it was

a recipe for a real burnout, you know, and, and, and I did, I eventually, I burned out and, and eventually ended up in, in therapy and, and confronting a lot of that and, and actually finding along the way, so many other young people who are cancer survivors who went through the same thing right um and that was a that was a comfort uh that came way too late right um because i think if i had known i mean i felt so guilty about feeling that way and that guilt became another layer of something to run from you know and uh and just realizing that it was such a common response for for people our age coming out on the other side of something like that um it was a real motivator for you know why we build the programs um for the charity that i started you know was to let you know people know

hey sometimes the bumpiest ride is after you You know, your first job is to survive. Your next job is to thrive after, you know? And, you know, we're, you know, it's sort of an active part of my work as a philanthropist to remind young people who've survived this that you're not out of the woods yet, but you have people that are there that have gone through it too.

Totally. And it's not like a lot of people have seen the face of death. So like, how do you relate to somebody? You know, when you get back on the road, you know, you saw almost dying and then you get down the road where everyone's happy.

Oh yeah, we're playing music. It's hard to, you know, to relate with people. I think I get why you went inward and I get why you overworked and I get why you suppressed yourself with weed and whatever. Were you taking psychedelics at all, like acid or mushrooms to kind of cope with the depression? You know, I mean, I did acid for the first, probably, I don't know, a couple of years into, uh, into my, my journey, but it was hardly therapy. You know, I, I'm a huge proponent of, of psychedelics in, in, uh, as a, as a therapeutic and, and, you know, I could, we could do a whole podcast on my journey with that at some point but uh but at the time it was it was like you know it was it was like another drug to do right i mean god it was it was fun but it was it wasn't like you know i wasn't i i would glean real insight from from you know the occasions where i did take psychedelics

it was it wasn't really like a regular uh deal for me at the time but it was a you know there somebody had you know somebody came across a bag of mushrooms i was not going to be you know i was probably going to be the second guy with my hand in the bag you know but that was yeah but that you know that would be like once a you know a year if that you know um but uh but it certainly wasn't being done for what i now look at as the right reasons which is like there's a lot of healing and a lot of self-discovery that, that can be, uh, uh,

sort of found in those spaces. If you, if you approach them with, you know, with the right intentions, I think. Totally. You know,

I've been doing 250 shows a year for now, what, 15 years now. And I hit a, uh, depression spell, my why, like an existential,

like, why am I doing this? And I took, I started taking a gram of psilocybin every day for a year straight or five days on, two days off. And it really did rewire my brain into focusing. So I think there's a lot of power in psychedelics if you want to do it that way. But it's also therapy works just as well. I mean, when you finally went to therapy, therapy works just as well. I mean, when you finally went to therapy,

what did you learn about yourself that you're doing that you didn't realize you were doing, but your therapist is like, Hey, this is kind of crazy what you're doing. Take a breath and take a step back and look at this. Yeah. Well, I mean like first I'll back up quickly and just be, you know, and, and make the, the cautionary statement that psychedelics obviously don't work for everybody, you know, and make the cautionary statement that psychedelics obviously don't work for everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Respect. You know, so just to throw that out there, you know, that's a personal journey and you should

definitely, you know, check with the doc. But as far as my experience in therapy, a lot of it was born out of it. You know, my response to my survivorship was to overwork and overmedicate and really kind of close myself out from – especially from the people I love, you know. Yeah. That the real motivator was that she was going to leave me, you know. She was done with me. Right. And I – and, you you know it wasn't all bad i think that like i think this is the things we we realize it's like easy to characterize at time of my life is this total nightmare shit show it wasn't like that it was just when it got bad it

got bad right then it would even out and plane out and you'd think okay i've like i finally turned the corner and i think what the biggest thing with therapy for me was trying to establish a baseline, you know, and also knowing that taking care of yourself is actually, it's daily work. It's not like, it's not a place you get to. It's not, you don't arrive at good mental health or good physical health. It's like, you actually have to just like look after yourself. And, you know, I was in the habit of I'd look after myself for a while and then I'd let everything go and I'd go crazy. And then I'd look after myself for a while. And so the big revelation was, you know, one, why I was doing it. And really just finally saying out loud what the experience of having cancer was like and being honest about it and being honest about how i felt you know what were the things that i felt it took from me and being once i just started saying those things out loud was huge um and then also looking at family patterns i think there were there was a lot of stuff um you know that that had gone on in my childhood that I think was born of the patterns that I kind

of grew up in and sort of being able to acknowledge that and go, okay, well, like, do you want to, you know, do better so that maybe you have a kid one day and they can want to do better than you did? And those things were really massive for me too. It got me on track fairly quickly, you know, for a while. I mean, it sounds like that tune you have, Resolution. Yeah. I mean. What year was that? Was that during the therapy years or right after that?

I was trying to create. No, God, no, God, no. I mean, I didn't start seeing a therapist until probably 2012. So it was after Jack's Manne i think that yeah like the dissolving of jack's mannequin and leaving la and coming back sort of to my the beach towns where i grew up you know i thought that was the fix right and for a minute it was so i like kind of i was like which was always my thing oh if i run you know if i change my name or change my band or or move to los angeles or move back home like this is gonna fix it that's the patch up and it's like oh no you don't that's not gonna work no you're just running

yeah and and i think for me i thought i actually thought when we moved back here we left la in like 2011 um and i sort of started winding down jack's mannequin i didn't i i honestly didn't think i was running i thought i was coming home right because i was i was coming home and i was like i really thought that leaving and going to la was the running you know i left you know like the support structure that i had in place when i was sick i just as soon as i was like a you know within you know inches of being better i was like i moved to a house in the hollywood hills right you know on you know lived up in like at the top of mulholland and just kind of like hermited myself up there and just threw parties every night you know like

and so i was like that was the running i'm going home now you know that's that was what i thought and then what i realized is that there's just there there was there was just too much uh there was too much to unpack and and and it became pretty clear within the first six months that we were down here that that i was still in the same pattern that i had been in for you know five or six years and we're like And my wife was like, time to go see somebody. Like, you just got to go. And I was like, I mean, it was like we had had a fight and she was like, you're going to go see somebody or I'm like packing and go to my parents' house. And so I spent all night, like, you know, just researching therapists.

I was like, and I found one and it's been, it's been good for me. What records did you feel like you forced versus the records that just came out naturally? Hmm. You know, it's tough. Like I don't, I,

I honestly don't really feel like I've ever forced a record. You know, I, yeah, I mean, like I, I think I, I mean,

I, I think certain records maybe are more, more cohesive than others and, you know, or, you know, or were easier to make or, you know, weren't, you know, like there's, there's certainly that. to commit to like making a record until i feel like i'm in a place that that's that i feel unlocked and i feel able you know and i feel open you know i think you know probably north there was there was like that was in some ways maybe trickier um um, just because, you know, there was this, you know, there was this sense of, of exhaustion and, and, and, you know, there, there was some difficulty, I, you know, and I will say the last Jack's mannequin record, um, that was, that was probably the hardest record I made people and things that,

that by far, I think, I don't know if forced is the right word but there was the most tension and the it took the most to just get it out the door there was like there was a lot of there was a lot of pushing uphill against the label um were you still at maverick for that record? No, no. So Maverick had folded into, um, Warner brothers by, by last passenger. Right. Yeah.

And then, and then, so then it kind of became sire. And then, you know, I had a different A&R guy for, but not, not for every record at,

at, at Maverick, but, or in the Warner brothers days, but it, it was like, there were different executives in the mix for every record at, at, at Maverick, but, or in the Warner brothers days, but it, it was like, there were different executives in the mix for every record. And so they got,

they got exceedingly more difficult to make. And by the time that we got to the last record, people and things, there were just so many, there were so many people getting fired and hired at Warner brothers that, that every new person that came into the mix was like, Oh, that's good. Why don't we do it over here? And I had already been doing it. You know, I'd like, I'd be halfway into the recording of a record and some new fucking

executive would be like, I think you should do it with somebody else. And I'd be like, I'm just, I'm doing it right now. What are you talking about? Like, and, and it really, it really, it put me over the edge i mean i think by the time that record was done i knew that i knew that the project was over that i knew it was over yeah i mean and and uh yeah because it just there was it and i was also a sim it was a symptom of my world but it was also the music business had gotten that was when it was really bad what year was that it was 2015 2011 yeah that was when it was really fucked yeah it just it it it had gotten to be so it was it was you know it just wasn't fun the way it had been because there were so many people like lording you know dollars and cents over your head and and questioning

every decision and they were all so afraid i mean every every music business executive and head of department at that point were so terrified to make decisions because they were they were also fearful for their job i know and and so they they like it was just watching in the early days with with you know like the first something corporate record and the first jack's mannequin record where people were just like let's fucking let's and let's just like like this music is great you know and then it had gotten into this like this place where you know where it was just you felt like if you made a phone call somebody be like are you sure about that lyric i'm like why are you talking to me

about my lyrics guy like i don't even know you you know what i mean like and and i so i got and i like i lost all trust in the business and i had already had trust issues and then and then i'm like you know getting pawned off on these new guys and it's it's nothing to say against anybody specifically other than just the culture of the major record business at that point it's just so toxic and it made making records really hard in the studio i could have fun but the business swirling around it was so unpleasant that i you know i just had to get the fuck out yeah and you a fascinating thing about you is you've been in the major label business since you were fucking a kid

well i have been but i i i've had all of my all of my biggest success i've had with the wilderness and it's all been on independent labels. That's what I'm fucking talking about. Let's go. There we go. What did you learn about that? From stressing out about all that shit to realizing, if I just followed my intuition and not listened to these

fucking people, I'm actually going to be more successful. Look, I'm not free of blame in my relationship to major label music either you know i think you know a lot of this coincided with doing doing my my work in therapy and and you know and figuring out like how to play ball you know what i mean like and how to and how to make sure i make the music i want but also make sure i'm doing the things i need to do to to to indicate my

support for the record company and not just be confrontational because i got to a point where i was just i just was a confrontational prick to anybody because i've just viewed them as the enemy you know so um so it really took me recalibrating. I took time off. I went and worked on TV. I did like, I did, I did other things for a bit. I put out a record completely on my own. And then I did the thing, you know, I hired a really good manager that, that really, you know, for the years we worked together, imparted some just amazing wisdom about, you know, just how to see the forest for the trees in this business. You know, like, are you going to get hung up about a deal point? You know, when it's, you know, if you're not

successful, it's not going to add up to any money. And if you are successful, you're going to be, you're going to be just fine. So don't stress about the one point that you're not getting on the deal things like that um i just grew up you know and and learned that you can spend a lot less money making records um if you work with the right people and you're focused and you and you're not indulging some you know you over overwrought kind of experience that doesn't actually end up making the record better anyway and that uh you can manage to spend a lot less if you work with really good people and you have good people in your corner um that spend money the right way you know and so that's how we did that's how cecilia and the satellite took off it was like the first time i was with an independent label you know using mostly indie radio, but we had a great radio guy management and, and they didn't spend a fortune and they didn't throw it all at the wall in the first two weeks, which is what happens at every major recording company. They were like, no, we need, we're going to ride this out because we believe in the song and we're going to work it.

And they just worked and worked and worked and took almost a year for that song to hit. It's so crazy. Nobody gave me the time. Yeah. So you realize, for me especially, I just need to play the long game all the time. You know, like, it's never going to be easy to work my music. You know, it's never going to be a perfect fit anywhere. And so you just have to find the right song and do the work.

I've always been curious. When you're riding in the van and you had that upright, how did you keep it in tuned? Did you learn how to tune it? Was it just a fucking machine? Was it a tank? That thing was a tank. I'm looking right at it as we speak, actually. You still have the upright?

I guess I'm on the other side of this desk right here yeah yeah that's what i write on um it was never in tune um we once we once we got you know like once we actually uh uh had some success we started hiring tuners at every show yeah um and even in something corporate i don't even know if we hired a tuner every show but we would get it tuned you know yeah uh and and honestly like this piano is it's it's bulletproof man i i adore it's like it's like my it's it's like my my best buddy or my kid or whatever it's still sounds still sounds great it's you know it's been

dropped off a forklift and really thrown on totally oh yeah and thrown on its back and you know and it lit and you know set on fire and and it it just still sounds good and and and holds a good tune so i i got lucky with a good piano too i mean especially playing the smaller gigs in the beginning where like you know like you have to take it upstairs and shit i bet the the stagehands are like are you fucking kidding me bro i still hear i still get it from stagehands you know what i mean and promoters and local sound guys yeah i uh oh my god if you knew the amount of times you're like uh maybe try a keyboard and you're just like i want to fucking kill you don't even say that well i mean we heard every show but but there is i think there's no question that the audacity of bringing

a real piano everywhere we went in those days and being unapologetic about it like like it it definitely it it set the trajectory a lot a lot faster for us because people people would pay attention yeah and it's rock and roll fuck like fuck you guys i'm doing this is my gig like this is yeah we didn't we didn't we may never made them load it was always the five of us who were loading the piano like some of those guys wouldn't even go near it we're just like all right fine we got really good at it yeah what about like when you're in a fight with your band and then you're like you guys are in a fight with your band during the day and then also like hey boys we gotta bring this fucking piano up to the castle they were always great man like that's one thing i can say about all my all my bandmates and something corbin man we were we we appreciated working hard you know and everybody i mean dude clutch our bass player was loading gear when we

were like in two semi trailers you know what i mean he would he would he'd finish the gig and he'd put on his gloves and we would just be like clutch man just like forget it you're like you're the word you we get it you're the working man. But like, we like, we like, you're allowed to have a beer after the show, dude. Like, he's just like, no, man,

we can go help the guys pack. We're just like, all right, dude. That's all right. Whatever, bro. Good luck.

Good luck. I love it. Andy, thanks for being on the show, man. This has been a dream come true since I was 16 to really have a talk with you and hope we could cross paths again. I just,

I, my last record I did with Chris, I know you went on tour with him with Dashboard. Yeah, no way. I did four songs with him. He's the man. And he taught me a lot about songwriting. And I love to see the full circle

of back in the roots with the boys. That was fucking cool to see. Oh, yeah. That was really cool. Oh, we had such a blast. It was such a great summer. It looked like a blast. Yeah, I was texting he knows i'm i'm a huge fan of you and i was like see what's what's going on he's like yeah it's fucking awesome you're killing it so

keep it up all right my last question but i'll let you go um when it's all said and done andrew mcmahon um what do you want to be remembered by oh gosh that's tough man i i think i think for me i i i think just the idea of staying in it you know and and you know i i i think the fact that i've survived as long as i have and that i've been able to shape shift into into multiple projects and do different things i I think that's the, that's what I'm most proud of, you know? Um, and I hope, I hope that I, I think if I look back, you know, that's, that's the thing that I go, like, it's what I want to teach my kid is like how to keep going, how to stay inspired, you know? And, and, um, and I just feel people see that that's like, I, I work my ass off every day to kind of, you know, to, to keep it interesting and keep, keep, keep doing what I love. Love it. Well, I'm from of, you know, to keep it interesting and keep doing what I love.

Love it. Well, I'm from talk, you know, you kept me going since I was 14. So thank you for your service, sir. Appreciate you. Thanks, Andy. Good to talk to you, man. Yeah, bro. Have a great day.

Good luck out there. Cheers. There, bud. You tuned in to the World's Health Podcast with Andy Fresco. Thank you for listening to this episode. Produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angelo and Chris Lawrence. We need you to help us save the world and spread the word. Please subscribe, rate the show, give us those crazy stars.

iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up. Follow us on Instagram at World Saving Podcast for more info and updates. Fresco's blogs and tour dates you'll find at andyfrescott.com and check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show or whatever springs to Andy's wicked brain. And after a year of keeping clean and playing safe.