Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 219: Craig Finn (The Hold Steady)

Episode Date: May 16, 2023

Nick & Andy get into it. But not until Brian and the moderators of Cameo give Andy a proper chiding. Plus: a very special interruption by your friend and mine (and maybe the Lakers?!): Dolav Cohen! Then, on the Interview Hour, we welcome singer of The Hold Steady, Craig Finn! Andy will not and CANNOT hold back with the real talk. Let's get at some Truth; and while you're at it, apologize to Beau and catch a live show near you: theholdsteady.net Call, leave a message, and tell us how you really feel: [phone]  Watch this episode streaming now!! Psyched to partner up with our buddies at Volume.com! Check out their roster of upcoming live events and on-demand shows to enrich that sweet life of yours. Check out our new single, You Do You streaming on Spotify and Apple Music now! And while you're at it, give a big middle finger to the bigots in your life And don't forget to catch the band in a town near you andyfrasco.com/tour Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out our good friends that help us unwind and sleep easy while on the road and at home: dialedingummies.com Produced by Andy Frasco, Joe Angelhow, & Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Brian Schwartz Dolav Cohen Arno Bakker

Hey, it's short. Listen, you're not responsive. You're not delivering on what we need to properly promote this new album. It seems you've sort of pushed your whole career aside to make videos. And it's great. You got a lot of views. I love the videos. I would encourage you to get back in the game,

to pull your head out of your ass, but the reality is you're a much better musician than you are an editor. You're also a much better entertainer than you are an editor, and I'm not going to let you fuck up the last three years of my hard work, my team's hard work.

The label's been asking for quotes. The label's been asking for interviews, and you're ignoring everything. And you're hurting yourself. You can't survive on making videos with whoever. Andy, it's Mike at Cameo. I'm looking at an email that I got complaining about a cameo you sent yesterday where, according to this recipient, you were completely nude chugging a bottle of Jameson.

We've gone over this. I called you last month. You can't do stuff like this. You have to adhere to our guidelines. You can't be nude. You can't curse at the people. Can't do any of that kind of stuff. We're going to remove you if you don't adhere to the guidelines. If you have any questions, go to your page on the site. Everything is there. There's tons of FAQs. There's a lot of rules. Please just follow them. I don't want to remove you from the site. We have a lot of requests for you. I want you to be able to earn a living, but you just can't be completely naked. Call me if you have any questions. Otherwise, just see the page on the site. Old middle class Frasco. You're not rich in LA unless you're making

what, 1.5 million a year? I'm being serious. No, my dad doesn't make that much money. No, I know. I'm saying that's what I'm saying. You're not rich in LA unless you're making over a million dollars a year, I feel like now. And we're back.

Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasco. This is my co-host, my confidant, my ringleader, my hype man, my guy. Yes, you didn't say show pony. No, you're not my show pony. I'm your show pony.

Yes. I just learned that. You're not, yeah. I've been trying to explain to you what show pony is. You keep calling managers show ponies. It's like, no, you're their show pony. Well've been trying to explain to you what show pony is. You keep calling managers show pony. It's like, no, you're their show pony. Oh, yeah. Well, I think about whoever makes me money is my show pony. I get that, but you're making them money.

It's true. It's true. You don't get 85% of what they make. Let's go. Frasco business is booming right now. You're not getting 85% of what they make. You know what I realized? What?

I never talk about you. What made you realize that? Last week's episode? I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. No, for real. I keep listening. And you say things that you're trying to talk.

And I just don't even hear it and just keep talking about myself. I know. I'm such a good person for never pointing it out. I'm just glad to be here. I just want to say... Thank you for being a friend. I'm such a good person for never pointing it out. I'm just glad to be here. I just want to say... Thank you for being a friend. Come on, baby.

It's Tuesday. We're feeling good. And we started from the bottom, now we're here, girl. Oh, yeah. That's my... That's my butt right here. That's so hard to nail. It's always...

Oh, that's my fair lick Wow Alright guys, we'll see you next week So how you doing? You didn't ask me about beating off last week That's the only time I get to talk about myself You know what it's been nice to? You're finally being vulnerable with me What do you mean? Just like, you know, you

used to just cut that right off. Yeah. Well, now I'm getting paid. Oh, true. And when you weren't paying me? No, no, no, no. We're not talking about jerking off. I'm not just going to talk about my personal life for free. I had a good weekend. I played a crawfish boil that had no crawfish because... You heard that right, people.

They had no crawfish? Yeah, it's not their fault. See, I told you this was sketchy. Yeah, I got paid. It was like during the day, you know? Who has crawfish in Denver? No, here's the thing. I'm getting to that.

You're doing the thing. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I'll tell the story about the thing where I was there and you were not. Okay, so you were wondering about how they get crawfish. Okay, never mind. Keep going. I thought I was muted the whole time. That was so good.

That would have been funny if you were muted the whole time, considering what we were talking about. So, you know how you were asking how they get crawfish here. So, what happens is they don't freeze it like I thought, like they do with the sushi fish. That's really good. They fly it live. Which is now as of 10 days ago,

illegal. Fly it live? Oh, so they're alive? Yeah, they're alive the whole time. Why is that illegal? I don't know. Some new federal government, you know, the government stepped in. Seems like animal cruelty. I guess, but I don't know. I don't know the reason. It might have something to do with the species. A live crawfish

should not be... Oh, that's probably it. Some agricultural thing. It's the Democrats, basically. No, I'm just kidding. They still had shrimp and they still had the andouille sausage. It was like a boil. I like that stuff. It was just funny that people were like, oh, there's no crawfish.

It wasn't very well attended because of that. They're taking our land. They're taking our jars. They're taking our crawfish. We need our farmers, though, of America. Yeah, I do. I agree. What's that sound? Oh, lawnmower.

Lawnmower. Lawnmower man. It's Tuesday morning. Every Tuesday? Every Tuesday. But it doesn't do my house. Why? You don't pay for it?

Oh, yeah. I got to pay for it. They don't just come around and do lawns for free. It's not a charity event. I don't know. Sometimes they'll just do it and send me a bill. Oh, yeah. That's what I would do to you. Yeah. Just say, hey, you look like you need some...

If I did anything with a mile of you, I'd just start sending you invoices. That's what happens. That's what all your other friends do. Poor Andy. Lakers won. Lakers are fucking killing it. Let's not get too excited. I can because I'm not a true Lakers fan.

But this is going to come out in like four days, so they could win the series. They could, but they could also be 3-3. So I'm going to be excited about it. Lakers, let's fucking go! Hello, everybody. Welcome to Sports with Dolan. He's talking shit about the game. He's got a weird fucking name.

It's Sports with Don't Love. This week, we're going to be talking some NBA playoffs. That's right, baby. We in the playoffs. Lakers take down the Gold State Warriors in game six. Holy fucking shit. Wow. Lakers just beat the Warriors.

What the fuck? Are you in the conference final? What the fuck? I still can't believe it. LeBron went off. AD came back. He barely beat the fucking Wolves. They got the seventh seed.

They fucking took down John Moran and the Grizzlies. The Lakers fucking won. Holy shit. LeBron had a monster game. What a series. The Lakers showed up. Showed out LeBron had a monster game. What a series. Lakers showed up. Showed out. I gotta give it to my man, Frasco. Damn, Frasco. Mad respect. Fucking can't believe I'm saying this. I talk mad shit. Y'all fucking did it. I fucking love you, bro. They took down the Memphis Grizzlies in the first round. They took down the Warriors in the second round.

And now they're coming for the Denver fans. Home versus home. Brasco's old home in LA versus his new home in Denver. Home versus home. Go down! Joker versus LeBron. It's gonna be hard to beat him. Versus AD versus my fucking nutsack.

Wow, wow, wow. I can't believe it. Fuck the rest of the Laker fans. Fuck the rest of the Laker nation. I love you, Frasco. Only happy for you. It's Sports with Dolan. Cock motherfucking bitch.

Ooh. Wee-wee. Let's fucking go You're going to Florida I know You're going to like this place Sugar Shack Sessions My grandma and grandpa bought a place there in 92

Bonita Springs Yeah It wasn't Now it's like this super posh kind of Between Naples and Fort Myers Supposedly all You know Little Stranger did this session and blew them up

So Maybe we'll gain some more fans. Yeah. So they bought a house there in 92 and it popped off. This is like a retirement home? No, it was like a... No, they weren't that old. Is it by the beach?

Yes, close to the beach. Oh, sick. So they had a house there. It's like she sold it. Now she's in like an assisted living home. She's 92. Maybe I should extend my flight. And just hang out? I mean, it's all old people. It's not like a fun part. She's 92. Maybe I should extend my flight. And just hang out?

I mean, it's all old people. It's not like a fun part. It's not fun there. It's a hot take. Hot take? Not a big beach guy, huh? Florida kind of freaks me out. Ooh, I see.

I'm the opposite. You like Florida? Yeah, I like it. I like how anything goes there, man. They got gators. They got white trash. They got crazy people. They got bad salts.

They got fucking the Miami Dolphins. They got, you know They got white trash. They got crazy people. They got basalts. They got fucking the Miami Dolphins. You know what I mean? They got Ace Ventura. They got Ace Ventura. That could be real. If Ace Ventura existed, I would only believe it if he lived in Florida. That's why that movie works. How many guys in Florida do you think look like Dog the Bounty Hunter? I think there's a lot of women in Florida who look like Dog the Bounty Hunter.

Man, chill, chill, chill, chill. I mean, no. Chill, chill, chill the fuck out. Well, you know. Speaking of that, we are announcing our Florida tour. Florida tour. I love Florida.

End of summer. I'll go to Florida for a month. I do. The shows have always been fun. The people have always been fun. I don't know why I'm so worried about it. I thought they'd be like racist.

Everyone talks about Florida man. Florida man. Florida man. But then there's a bunch of Jews out there that, you know. It's literally the other Jewish part of America. It's New York City and then they go to Miami. So shout out to Florida. They go to Miami to die. I'm fine with Florida.

They have everything. Cubans, Jews, white people. There's a lot of black people. They're just afraid of humidity. Humidity sucks. I'll give you that. That's the worst. I grew up in that. Is it LA? No, it's dry as fuck.

Oh, it is. I just thought maybe because it's right off the ocean. No, it's dry. Indiana, very humid, so it sucks. I'm loving this time of year in Denver. Sun's out, 75. I wish I could leave my house more. Work like a dog.

I'm so fucked. I yelled at Bo. I've been thinking about it the last two days. Bo, I'm sorry. I called him. I was just so stressed out. These guys are just getting wasted on a Sunday at Cherry Cricket. I'm like, my team is so

incompetent when they're drunk. Yeah, so is you. But no, I'm a good... I work hard when I'm drunk. Okay, but let's not act like you're a welder. I know. I fucked up. You've been working hard all morning DMing drag queens. Yeah, yeah. Low serotonin. That was my fault, Bo.

I didn't mean that. You're a fucking great worker. I love you. You're also stressed out and shit and you're like, oh, you're so worried about if I was doing all right because I just got off a New Orleans bender. Yeah, I was dead. I was a little dead, but I'm back. But I just want to apologize for calling you incompetent because you're not incompetent.

You're a fucking great worker and I love you. I don't think you can hurt Bo. No, I did hurt him. I felt it in his eyes. His eyes sank a little bit. It did, right? It hurt. Oh my God. I don't think you've ever really gotten mad at me like that. No. Well, no. Sometimes I got annoyed at you

once. Yeah, once in a tour. In two years. Yeah. That's normal. I'm just saying you've never like blown up on me though. Yeah. You know what else is not annoying at all? Dialing gummies. Volume isn't annoying at all. They fucking just saying, you've never blown up on me, though. You know what else is not annoying at all? Dialing gummies. Volume isn't annoying at all. They fucking love us, dude. Shout out to volume.com. They're obsessed with it.

They're just letting us be us, and we fucking love that. As artists, creators, journalists. Talking about beating off. Yeah, I was like, how about this for the breakout this week? Just us beating off. I love it. Yeah, because it's interesting. People like that. Everyone jerks off. Guys, get. Yeah, because it's interesting. People like that. Everyone jerks off. Guys, get over it.

I get texts from Brian. Yeah, you fucking... Why did you do a message that you're beating off? Because that's what people like on the internet. They like dumb shit. What do you want us to talk about? The presidential election? Who cares? Yeah. It's going to be the worst one ever. I am worried about

Tennessee, Florida, everyone banning these LGBTQIA. Yeah, that sucks. I mean, I'm not a fan of the Republicans. But why are they doing that? I don't know. It's religion, basically, I think. Yeah, they're not allowing that, but they allow titty bars and

strip clubs. I mean, we can sit around and just point out that kind of stuff for hours. Well, we're here to fight. All they do is contradict themselves. We're here to fight. I don't care what you believe. Just don't be a hypocrite. Yeah, exactly. That's all I think about, too. Don't be a hypocrite. Which is pretty impossible.

I do it all the time, but like... Yeah, true. They're doing it on a fucking extreme level, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's insane. Like, especially if you're a Catholic, let's lay off the drag queens, okay? I don't know. Pick up, watch Spotlight. This rant was sponsored by Dialed and Gummies. Dialed and Gummies. Denver,

Colorado. Go grab yourself some Dialed and Gummies. They're the greatest. They are the greatest. I just had one last night when I was all, you know, the Lakers were one and I was like, I couldn't sleep. I knew we had an early morning podcast. So I was like,

11 a.m. So I took one. I fell asleep perfectly. They had the perfect dose every time. I like taking a half before I go to bed. My mids tolerance isn't the greatest. I've been just hammering them lately.

I've been taking them during the day. You might be addicted. They're fun. They make me feel good. That's addiction. I can also not do them for two weeks and not care. I haven't done it. I don't think you can do that. I haven't had one for like...

To be honest, I really don't think you can do that. Okay, Andy. If I can't do it, you can't do it. You want to do a test? I'll go longer. Two weeks, no dialed in gummies. I'll go two weeks without. What are you going to go without for two weeks?

Drinking? No, I'm not doing that. There's no way you can go two weeks without drinking. I did that last month. I went like a month without eating. Remember? I was trying to stabilize my tolerance a little bit. So I didn't do them for a month.

So you're already wrong. Plus, you're an alcoholic. You're a real alcoholic with problems. You're a real weedaholic. Eh, that's not a thing. That's not a real thing. No. It's not a physical dependency. No, if you're calling me an alcoholic, you're a weedaholic. Fine, I'm a weedaholic. It's way less embarrassing than being an alcoholic. Actually, it's not. Jesus Christ.

I'm just kidding. I'm so sick of potheads being like, it's menacing. You're addicted, okay? You're addicted to weed. It's fine. You get in a bad mood when you don't smoke weed at 10 in the morning. It's like those people who do ketamine all the time. They're like, yeah, it's helping me. Yeah, when a doctor gives it to you and it's like a certain dose. Yeah, not when pounding a gram of it at the Disco Biscuit concert. Yeah, not $300 worth over a Red Rocks weekend.

I'm not depressed anymore. That's abusing it, people. I'm not depressed anymore. Well, you're going to be depressed as fuck on Wednesday. I could say that about mushrooms. Yeah. I took a break on mushrooms and I finally, I took like a two-week break. Yeah, we're all a bunch of hypocrites, basically.

But it was nice to take that two-week break for the tolerance reason. Right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't care. You don't have to eat that much. I think people should just get fucked up all the time, and who cares? Like, who gives a shit? You've got to find something to feel good in this world. Gerlach, 2024.

America's going to get fucked up. I've been thinking about running for... Take your drugs, people. Mayor of Indianapolis. Gerlach, Frasco, 2024. In roughly 10 years, I want to run for mayor of Indianapolis. Mayor. That's a big city, bro. I think that's in play. I think I

could pull it off in 10 years. I think you need to go smaller. You need a smaller town. Fuck that. What we talked about earlier, we don't go small. Yeah, we stay up. Am I trying to win? No. Maybe. I could win. Yeah, I just watched the Man of the Year with Robin Williams where he's like kind of the Jon Stewart. Yes. I'm watched The man of the year With Robin Williams Where he's like

He's like kind of The Jon Stewart Yes I'm the man of the year In Indianapolis Here's what I have Working in my favor They haven't had a good mayor

In like 50 years right Because it's a big city Yeah To I think I'm funny enough That I could probably Make it a joke And make people

It's not that big of a city Don't make a million No you can't joke About politics Sure I can Why? Donald Trump was president for four years. He called Ted Cruz the Zodiac Killer during a debate.

I know, but like... And it ruled. Who did it? Well, Al Franken. Yeah. He killed it. But didn't it get canceled? I'm going to annex Carmel.

Did Al Franken get canceled? Yeah, but it was total bullshit. It was like a tit-for-tat thing. He like pretend honked a girl's boobs on a USO comedy. Even she was like, this is what? Yeah, but it was total bullshit. It was like a tit-for-tat thing. He like pretend honked a girl's boobs on a USO comedy tour. Even she was like, this is what? Yeah. It was a payback for one. They like, every time a Republican gets canceled,

they have to cancel a Democrat. It's like a back and forth. Speaking of political campaigns, my new single, You Do You, is out right now. Go listen to it. I watched the video. You liked it? Yes.

It's getting traction. I like the video You liked it? Yes It's getting traction I like the video more than the song It's on We got seven radio stations right now I would watch the video And then Because you can hear the song too And see the video

It's a good video Thanks buddy You had some cool stuff going on in it I thought I thought it was good I thought Danny Barbieri killed it She's a genius

Yeah We talked for like an hour last night. She's very talented. Very talented. She has a new hot boyfriend, huh? Oh, man. I love him. He was in the music video.

I haven't met him. Handsome. That guy's good looking, man. Fucking handsome. Yeah. Anyway, Mayor. Yeah. Let's do the volume.com pitch because it's already 15 and I don't know how long this

Is this Manny Fogey? No, this is the Hold Steady. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Hold Steady. Cold classic band. You're going to love this one. Is this Manny Fogey? No, this is the Hold Steady. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Hold Steady, cult classic band. You're going to love this one. They are a cult classic band.

They are. They're huge in London, and they do this thing in Williams at Brooklyn Bowl for three nights. I think it's called the Big Night Out or something like that. I probably fucked up that promo, but Hold Steady's a great band. I mean, they've been around forever. When I researched them, I realized something about them.

They're not a jam band, right? No. But their sort of touring patterns and business is sort of jam band. Yeah, that's what they're talking about. They do the culty thing. They'll go somewhere and play for three days. They have like, you know, it's very like Disco Biscuits energy, like how they market and promote and tour.

I thought that was kind of interesting. But anyway, volume.com. Speaking of music, let's do the volume.com pitch because we love them and we want to do it right. I'm pulling up these new... Yeah, Ben sent us some notes about what we should talk about. Here they are. By the way, volume.com wants to thank everyone

who listened to the stream, the NOLA funk sessions. That was fucking amazing. So if you want to go to volume.com and watch our face, we're happy to do this. If you want to see our happy mugs, go to volume.com slash Andy Frasco. We have happy today. You want to see our happy mugs. Go to volume.com. We have all the podcasts archived in video. If you want to re-watch

your favorite artists, you want to see their face or facial expressions, because I know a lot of people listen to it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, yada, yada. Go check out volume.com. Go check it out. Our studio is in my house. You can go see all these awesome art I've collected over the years.

They still have all the old NOLA performances. Yeah, they still have the streams. And our show is badass. Anders Osborn. God damn, that was sick. I didn't realize how fucking... I never checked him out. Yeah.

Honestly, I just like don't... I used to have like a bad feeling about him Because of something happened at a show But it wasn't him actually We like did a late show for his early show Whatever it doesn't matter So I never got into him I didn't realize he's like the man dude He's the man

That song that you were playing I can't remember what it's called Yeah It was like a masterpiece Yeah Oh yeah coming down Amazing A masterpiece

Yeah It was like so slow We gotta get him back on the show He was really working that groove with beats He would like Try to lay it back Yeah He was trying to find it

I was like No don't find it He's doing that on purpose You're in New Orleans Yeah Exactly So Volume.com is

Streaming shows at a venue A Bitter End in New York City Oh they're doing They're streaming at Bitter End Yeah yeah They're doing a bunch of shows They didn't give me any specifics Just check it out

Oh sick Yeah So it's backslash Bitter End If you don't know Bitter End Bitter End's Yeah, yeah. They're doing a bunch of shows. They didn't give me any specifics. Just check it out. Yeah. So it's backslash Bitter End. If you don't know, Bitter End's like one of the most famous New York venues. It's like CBGB and all that stuff. That's the one I haven't played in New York.

I've played a lot of them. Have you ever played the Gramercy Theater? I love that one. I haven't, yeah. Least favorite venue I've played in New York? Webster Hall. No. That's amazing.

BB King. I don't like The Cutting Room. I don't think I've done that one. I think it'd be good for podcast, Cutting Room. Yeah, I've heard about it. Brooklyn Bowl rules. Brooklyn Steel rules. I like Warsaw.

That was awesome. Yeah, yeah. So head to volume.com and go watch some streams or go watch us or just go over there and support the boys. They support us. So we want to, we want to help support them. Yeah.

Let's get out of here. You wear what you die in. Um, I got tour dates guys. I'm about to, we're doing 15, uh, fat music festivals.

Oh, this summer. And I just announced the fall tour and you're doing an Indianapolis festival. I'm very excited. Yeah. All in. Oh, all in music festival. That's going to be cool. I'm going doing an Indianapolis festival. I'm very excited. All-in. All-in music festival. That's going to be cool.

I'm going back for that. I think I'm going to be doing it after party. We're doing the podcast. This thing's driving me nuts. Are we? You said we might be doing the podcast. No, we are. Oh, that's why I should really formally announce my mayoral run in 10 years. Maybe that'll be the first bit.

10 years. What would you... Just do some local riff for about 10 minutes. You can just chill. I love it. Thank you. Nick's running for mayor of Indianapolis 2024. And I will be his vice mayor.

And go click. I don't know anything about Indianapolis though, but I do love the city. So I will definitely, it's fine. It's a city. It's like, you know,

Cincinnati, Indianapolis. Should I get Botox? Don't you need Botox as a politician? No, I'm going to be Hagrid. I'm just going to be the real one. Okay. I'll be the hot one.

You'll be the hot. You're the brains. You just trance me around. You'll certainly be hot in 10 years. Oh, there's some great dive bars. I love a good dive bar. Mousetrap is technically a dive bar. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that'll be a fun

thing to announce. Also, go follow my new Spotify band, The Coltet. Oh, you have a... I have one track up so far. That's cool. I'm going to do like one a month or so. That's a good idea. Yeah. It's a good slow jam. You can fuck your wife to it or go to bed. If you didn't know, Nick is a musician. I know.

People think I'm a comedian. And I'm like, I'm not even that funny. Nick is a real musician. He was a musician. He studied at Juilliard. At Juilliard. I'm a direct descendant of Johann Sebastian Bach. No, he's a great sax player, a great songwriter.

He did write Puff Break with me. Bitch. I actually kind of started it. You did? I said I want like a Chance the Rapper style song. Three hours later? It doesn't sound like Chance the Rapper

so we won't get sued. Let's go. Yeah, but it's a vibe. We got to say that because Ed Sheeran. Yeah, but you can be inspired by something. That's not...

I know. Actually, it wasn't Chance the Rapper either so it doesn't matter. But we'll not say who it was. Someone else. We just wanted like that hip-hop.

Ed won that case. Thank God he won. He did? You would have been fucked if he didn't win that case If you can copyright chord changes Half your songs are blues Who owns the blues? There's only so many chords That's why he won

You can't copyright 1345 I'm sorry, go to hell Did you think of 1345? No Someone did it before you God damn it Gerlach 2024 Will fight for your musical royalties as well 345? No. Someone did it before you. God damn it. Gerlach 2024. Indian Hempless Mayor will fight for your musical royalties

as well. Oh yeah, dude. I'm bringing back the arts in India. I'm bringing back that whole thing. The 50s are back, baby. Yeah, and we're going to legalize mushrooms. Yeah, I'm down. I'm just going to make Indianapolis. We're going to change it from being a cop state to a woohoo state.

Hell yeah. I'm going to make it like a dystopian hellhole, but like fun. Yeah. Like, remember Back to the Future 2 when he goes back to 1985 and it's just like a big casino? Yeah. That's what it's going to be like. Hell yeah. Except for Carmel's going to be paying for it. Instead of Al Capone's, it'll be Frasco's.

Yeah. Yeah. Except for it's legal. We're going to bootleg mushrooms. Yeah. It'll be like Vegas with NASCAR. Enjoy the Hold Steady. Guys, this band's amazing. We're going to bootleg mushrooms. Yeah, it'll be like Vegas with NASCAR. Enjoy the Hold Steady. Guys, this band's amazing.

I love them. I'll hold your steady. Hey, Chris, play some Hold Steady. I talked to the front man. He's the man. Yeah. They dealt with alcoholism. They dealt with almost breaking up.

I mean, they've gone through it all. To stay inspired through every record, to keep the band together, keep it rocking. It was an inspiring story. It's hard. And he talked about his mental health with what's going on. And he's a single man and stuff. Ooh. Yeah.

So, no kids. I don't know if he's single, but he doesn't have kids. That's single. Yeah. So, you're going to love this. All right, guys. Enjoy the have kids. That's single. You're going to love this. All right, guys. Enjoy the hold steady. Goodbye.

Bye. Bye. Hey, Craig, what's up, bud? Not much. How you doing? I'm doing good. Are you in Brooklyn? the sky. um did you you said you're going are you guys going on the road soon or what were you um we yeah we just we we've kind of been just uh with the whole study we've kind of been doing um we've kind of changed the way we tour a little bit we tend to do just residencies we go to you know we go to one city and play three or three shows or something uh for the most part so we just we just kind of um I guess a few weeks ago, we did a couple in London. And then we don't really have anything.

We had some promo stuff. We were just on Seth Meyers and did an in-store at Rough Trade here in New York on Wednesday. And then we don't really have anything going on until we have a three in Portland at the end of the month. That's great. Portland, Oregon. How do you think the end of the month. That's great. Portland, Oregon. How do you think the

chemistry of the band changed instead of touring so hard into versus doing just these three-day residencies? Do you feel the camaraderie getting better, not so burnt out? Give us the scoop on that. It's incredible. I mean, I honestly,

since we've been doing this, which is like five years now, I don't know why more bands don't do it this way. I mean, first of all, there's an amazing community around the Halt Steady. So like, you know, and we've been around for 20 years. So not only have we all gotten older, but some of the fans have gotten older too. So, you know, there's always that transaction of like, I can go to your small Midwestern city on a Monday night, but I know you have two kids and a job. So if we go on at 10 p.m., are you really going to be psyched? No.

Or can we all meet in Chicago this summer for three shows? Right. And we're going to play, you know, we have 140 songs now, so we're going to play wildly different sets each night. We're going to play, you know, we have 140 songs now. So we're going to play wildly different sets each night. And we're all going to, you know, be able to, for the band, we're going to be able to hang out and have lunch with our friends. And not, you know, it's not going to be all about travel.

And then it ends up being way more musical too. It's like at Soundcheck, you're like, what's a song we haven't played in nine years? Right. You know, what can we pull out tonight that's really going to blow people away instead of like you know does my amp still work um and and and it it's really great and you know and from a business perspective we do new merch every for each of these weekends so that's cool and a lot of people travel and a lot of people you know like i said the community people see each other at these weekends and they're kind of like oh oh man, are you going to go to Chicago? Are you going to go to Portland? Are you going to go to Atlanta?

And it ends up being kind of this, this, this community and a culture that, that we've created. That's great. And I think everyone's a lot less fried. Let's be honest. Yeah. I mean,

yeah, I feel you. So I think there's, there's a, there's a, there's a clear eyedness to the band that, that I think wouldn't exist if we were trying to pull off 150, 200 dates a year. Right.

And it's like, you know, it's that jam band philosophy. Like, your band isn't really a jam band, but you guys throw this, like, you run the business like a jam band, which is, like, I think very inspiring for people outside of the jam scene. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because I made a solo record. Well, I made a few, but a number with Joe Russo. But I remember the first record I made with him,

he was kind of talking about sort of how J-Rad was making, you know, like some of the decisions they make. And I was like, you know what? There's some really smart things in there. And, you know, how could I was like, you know what? There's some really smart things in there. And how could I apply that to the whole study? One of the things, because you're right, we don't really jam. It's not, you know, that's sort of missing of the jam philosophy. But because we have such a big catalog now, we really can mix it up just by song choices yeah yeah that's and i

think that's the beautiful thing like you know i'm i'm considered a songwriter but i'm in the jam scene i'm not really a jammer but now we have like 100 120 songs and i feel like i could still compete in this race of getting on all this jam stuff because we have the catalog now. Like 20 years in a band. You know, you guys have been together. I feel like you have mostly all the same original members, right? Yeah, I mean, we had a little bit of some switching up at the very beginning. And what happened, yeah, we had some movement.

There's been like three distinct parts. There was the first part where we kind of had a five-piece lineup with Franz, Nikolai, and Piano. Franz left, and Steve Selvidge came in, and we placed with a guitar player. So then there was kind of 2.0 with Steve. Franz came back in 2016, and now we kind of have the super steady, which is everyone, you know, six of us.

Like power band. And it's all hands on deck, you know? And in that sense, it's really good. And honestly, I can easily say that this is the best lineup. You know, I mean, we've got all the strengths here. And that's been since 2016, which ends up being, this is now the longest lineup of the Hold Steady. So this is, in some ways, the classic lineup too.

How close are you with Franz? With Franz? Yeah. hold steady so this is in some ways the classic lineup too how close are you with franz with franz yeah yeah i mean close i mean we it's funny we are all um we are all i mean this 20 years has and we were putting together like a coffee table book and oral history yeah and it so there's been a lot of reflection you know and a lot of reminiscing and a lot of kind of taking stock but i think the most amazing thing about the the band is that we're all all our friendships are intact you know i mean um uh you know even franz franz left the band for i don't know five six years i sort of i definitely understand why he would why do you have him back why did he do it

well i think he wanted to he wanted to pursue his own music you know i mean i'm the singer of the hold steady and you know um and then you know there was there's multiple songwriters and there's sort of that thing where it's like oh you know i i'm writing a lot of songs and only some of them are getting played and and we were we were in a rough spot. I mean, I think at that era, the wheels were coming off the wagon a little bit from the heavy touring and all the other behind-the-music rock and roll things that happened to bands. Did you get into drugs or anything? Was it alcoholism or any of that stuff or no?

I mean, I think the whole band was partying. or any of that stuff or no i mean my you know i think the band i mean the whole band was party i mean that was kind of our thing yeah like it was it was we wore it on our sleeves we're drinking crazy amounts you know i mean um when i look back at what our writer was even it was you know i mean it was cases and cases of beer two bottles of jim beam you know um and and all the stuff that goes along with it so yeah i mean it was really i mean the drinking on stage itself just just during the show was was excessive right um you know not to mention and you know at some point there was a film crew in in 07 the first time we went to europe and i remember you know i couldn't look at that footage

for a long time but a few years ago we showed it in london and i saw it and i was like i had a huge glass of whiskey at soundcheck you know in my hand yeah and i was like that is a dark drink to be drinking at soundcheck you know that is very brown yeah what do you think was making you drink that much during the day was it were you stressed out was it you felt like that was the rock and roll life like what made you start drinking that early in the day well i think in in you know the first part was like i think that you know we we'd all been in bands that no one kind of cared about so i think the first part is like you know you want to you just want to do it all, you know? People are giving you things and you want to take part.

And then there's just like the, you know. And then from there, it's like, wow, I don't feel so well today. Right. I maybe would feel better if I had a drink. But, you know, I mean, it wasn't that long into it that I think most of us realized that it was like, this is unsustainable, you know? And I think I want to feel better day to day. And, you know, also from the first part, like, they're going to keep giving us this stuff. Right.

You know, there's always more whiskey. And so, you know, you're never going to get to the bottom of it, and you should never feel like you have to take it. Right. Yeah, I reminisce with that quite well because, yeah, there's never a bottom. Do you remember the breaking point? Do you remember the show when you're like, we can't sustain this anymore?

I don't know if there was an actual per an actual show i remember after before the third album which was which actually ended up being probably our biggest album boys and girls in america before the third album i remember thinking like feeling pretty lousy and i my creativity i was really i found i wrote most of the stuff i liked when i was hungover. There's like a bleak, dark comedy that comes from being hungover. You're kind of like, oh, yeah, you know? Yeah, dude. Like everything's a little funny, but a little bleak and a little bit like, it's just this, I don't know, it's actually an enjoyable, dark comedy.

It really fits into my sense of humor. But I was like, well, I can't just create when I'm hungover. Like, what if – and I remember being scared. I do remember being worried. Like, if I knock off drinking for a little bit, like, am I still going to be able to write songs, write songs that I like, write songs that – and there was definitely like a pushing through,

and it ended up being totally fine. Right. It wasn't being hung over. I could tap into that sense of humor if I wanted to. But I remember being concerned. And then you do a couple tours where you take it easy, and you're like, wow, this isn't as hard. Right. And this is maybe more enjoyable.

I mean, you know, over the years, I've become a morning person. Yeah, isn't that amazing? The only time I'm not is when we do play shows. Right. Well, that is the other thing that's a little weird, that now, you know, some nights I won't have anything to drink. I still drink some, but like, you know, it's nothing like what it used to.

But even if like, you know, I've played multiple shows in a row with no booze, like right now, I always quit drinking for Lent. And right now it's Lent. It's like a holdover from my Catholic upbringing. And like, so, you know, if we played a show, but what's weird, because I'm 51 51 is that i still feel kind of bad in the morning after a show like physically um yeah and it's just it's it's a physical thing i mean it's a big rock and roll thing i mean and we play for almost two hours and like singing shouting for two hours and carrying a guitar it it's like, you know, I'm sore. Yeah. And I, you know, I think about, you know, what, you know, I'm going to see Springsteen two nights from now.

And I think about like, you know, wow, what about in your 70s? What is that like? You know? Oh, yeah. It's like, how do you keep a band? How do you keep a band happy through the 20 years? And how do you keep yourself happy through the ups and downs of the music industry?

Well, I think there's, I mean, you know, it sounds really weird. It sounds really like business-like or like, you know, really dry, but I think there is something to pay, really paying attention to supply and demand. And, um, you know, I, I have friends that are in bands that are like like like i feel like touring um touring their fans away you know what i mean like there's only so much time you can roll through a certain you know you can you know you take a i don't know kansas city like how many how many hold steady shows could we play in Kansas City before people start to go? I think I'll see them next time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I mean, we really haven't played Kansas City very often. That's why I'm choosing that one, because it actually doesn't apply. But I think if you keep on the road, you can burn out. So that's one of the reasons sort of devised our sort of touring model um because i think that you can if you if you just kind of get in the um i don't know if

you kind of uh you need to sometimes stop the supply to build up the demand you know right right what about um what about like so i think that was why you guys were so important in the COVID era, because you guys would do these live streams. There were such huge crowds. Like, I had my show on fans.com as well. I did a dance party with Jonathan Healy. And we'd always talk about how Hold Steady was just, the live streams were just really popping. Like, they were really big. live streams were just really popping.

Like they're really big. And do you think because of the, that philosophy of like, kind of like draining the well a little bit and then putting out these great live streams that it helped, you know, keep the, the growth of the band going through a time where you couldn't even tour. Yeah.

I mean, I think our philosophy generally is to make everything an event, right. You know what I mean? So, you know, it was never like, um, I mean, I think our philosophy generally is to make everything an event, right? Right. So it was never like, all right, let's get up in front of our computer and turn it on and play a couple jams on an acoustic guitar. Instead, it was like, let's pick a date three months from now, and let's go to an empty Brooklyn Bowl, set up all the gear, film it right, and get everyone and time it. So the first one we did was to continue our massive nights tradition, which is our fourth, four nights at the Brooklyn Bowl

that happens in the weekend after Thanksgiving each year. And that was kind of like we have to do it. And then we do one of those in London in March every year called The Weekender. And then we were like, you know what would be amazing? Let's do it again for The Weekender, but let's go on a stage at 3 p.m. I love that. I love that.

You know? And so once again, we played for an empty room. But we said it's The Weekender. We marketed it to our UK fans, which is a great fan base for us and a great community. And that was really cool. And it allowed people to know we were still thinking of them and that we missed them, but like we weren't it, but, but also people all, they all took advantage of the one time we did or the two times actually,

but the one time for each continent and, you know, made sure they had plans and made sure they had. And honestly, so the first one, you know, I think it was the first one. When I came off stage, there were monitors throughout the bowl so you could see people. Yeah. They were holding up signs. We said, like, so hold up signs from where you're from. And I walked down to the bowling alley in the Brooklyn bowl and there's all

these monitors over there. And Jonathan Healy or whoever was directing it was, was flipping through all the images, all the different places people are from and they're holding up signs. And it was literally around the world. It was Italy. It was Germany. It was California.

It was Massachusetts. It was Minneapolis. It was Colorado. And, and it was one of the most emotional moments I've had. Right. Like it was like, that gives me chills thinking about that oh people around the world are sitting in their living rooms and they're holding up their pets and they're holding up their signs and kids are dancing you

know there's kids you know which normally don't come to a hold steady show so it was really beautiful i mean it was it was moving to the point of tears. Yeah, and I'm going to clap to that. Let's fucking go, Craig. I love that shit, baby. Let's pop off. Because that's how I felt, too. It felt like you weren't as alone as you thought you were in your head. You know, especially when you got

all these people from around the world, your fan base, your tribe, who you live for as a musician and songwriter to all be there for you in this empty ass brooklyn bowl at 3 p.m you know it's like it's like heroin style or like you just walk into this dark ass brooklyn bowl and it's beautiful man i love it yeah it was really cool and you know the other thing that happened during the pandemic that i thought was like really cool was um i happened to be in nashville i had to go in kind of the heart of the pandemic in like

september must have been september 2020 uh to do something and it was weird to travel at that time but while i was there the broken bull was doing a live stream with saint paul and the broken bones in nashville and they said you know look we're inviting a few small amount of people when you can come. And I hadn't seen live music in months, six months, nine months. And so I walked into Nashville, Brooklyn Bowl, and there was only about 20 people there. We were all spread out wearing masks. And when I heard the kick drum, it was like a moment.

Like I was like, it felt in my chest and I was like, oh, that sounds really nice. I haven't heard a kick drum in a long time. And something about being in a room with live music again was really, really exciting.

Yeah, and the beautiful part about having distance from something is you appreciate it again. When we're doing something every single day and writing and doing this and the beautiful part about having distance from something is you appreciate it again. You know, we don't, when we're doing something every single day and writing and doing this and the grind, when we're forced to take a step back, you're like, oh, shit, I do love this. You know, it's kind of morbid, but you know.

Absolutely. I mean, that goes back to the supply and demand. You know, you kind of like, you lose, you know, it's like being on a ship. You lose sight of the shore. You know what I mean, it goes back to the supply and demand. You know, you kind of like, you lose, you know, it's like being on a ship. You lose sight of the shore. You know what I mean? And I think that, you know, coming down to dry land or something is important every once in a while.

Yeah. Yeah, and that's why I kind of want to talk about the songwriting now. And, I mean, you guys have, what, nine studio albums? Correct, yeah. This is our, the one we just put out is our ninth, which feels pretty crazy, but it's true. Isn't it wild how time, how fast life happens? It's funny, too, because, like, you know,

it seems like it's exponential, meaning, like, you know, when you're 10, 15 is a long ways away. Yeah, yeah. But, like, when you're 45, 50 comes like the hat. Yeah. I think about the length of people go to school. My friends have kids in college. And it's like, they're going to college.

They're done. Right. It's like, what? I thought they just went. I thought they're freshmen. Right. But it starts to move really quick when you're older. Do you regret? do you have kids?

No, no. Are you thankful? No, I mean, I think it could have gone, I mean, I think I see benefits to both. Yeah. I mean, it's certainly having no kids allows me to pursue things as artistically as i want to you know what i mean like uh you know i i i don't you know but but you know i think that there's a um i worry and i wonder

that like you know if we are sort of biologically supposed to have children if there's something about our our um our psyche that is incomplete without it. And I think in some ways, as far as a relationship goes, having a mutual project that you're both working on together, like your children, is probably good.

What was the hardest record out of the nine records you guys done together what was the hardest one to really like put a finish to either was it emotionally draining maybe you're burnt out on the road give it what were the two the couple records yeah this toughest i mean the two that there's two that comes to mind the first is um then they're right in a row uh and it was kind of in that 2.0 period I was talking about. It was Heaven Is Whenever and Franz Left. And I think we were trying to figure out what it would be like. And I think that the first four records we made was kind of like,

this is kind of epic. And then the next one was kind of epic. And then the next one was a little more epic. And then the fourth one. And then we got to this point where it's like, like you can't just keep doing epic epic you know what i mean you're you're gonna reach the point so what i think in hindsight we should have done with heaven is whenever is um we didn't really i know we didn't really have a plan and we kind of tried to self-produce it or we worked with a we kind of went back to working with a friend rather than like

a um the two records before that had been produced by John Angiello, who's a real producer with some levity. And I think we thought we could do it ourselves, but we couldn't. And I think we just didn't, no one was kind of like, I think to me, production, being a producer, I think leadership is the big thing.

Right. And it got like, it needed a leader and didn't have it. And we didn't have things together, really. And we were kind of, in hindsight, I think what we should have done, I talk about this a lot, but I think in hindsight, we should have made one of those records that a band makes, you know, for their fifth, it was our fifth record. I think we could have made a record that was maybe like,

showed a lot of personality. Like I'm thinking of records such as London Calling by The Clash or Exile on Main Street by Rolling Stones, where it's a double album and it's kind of sprawling. And some of the songs are really great. And some of the songs are just a little off the cuff. And it shows you, you know, Sweet Virginia by the Rolling Stones rolling stones where it's like they just sound like they're having fun you know and maybe the pressure's off a little bit and the london calling us a few of those

the band big thief made a record like that a couple like last year or the year before that that sort of seems like that there's kind of some fun songs and then there's some serious songs but there's a lot of songs and it's not like this big epic statement, you know, it's more just like, here's us recording a lot of music. Do you want to see? And I think we could have done that and it would have been better, but instead we kind of just didn't know what we were doing. And so that one was like kind of a mess.

And we reissued it a few years back, and I went through it. I did a lot of work on the reissue because that was the thing. We did record a lot of music for it, and we cut it down to a single album. And it was funny because when I went through the lyrics, the words, I thought it might be our funniest album in a way, but we were having a lot of problems internally. The funny lines weren't sort of matched with any feeling of joy

on the record. It kind of all fell flat. It's like self-deprived. It's like comedians who just make fun of themselves. You look back and be like, oh, fuck. That was actually pretty sad. We also had this thing at the time that Gail and our bass player and I were always riffing on what we called the cosmic philosopher. And that's kind of like a rock and roll thing.

I mean, Jerry Garcia, Robert Hunter kind of have a lot of those lines that are like kind of homespun wisdom. Like they're on the front porch and they're, you know, telling you how the world works. And I was like, I kind of had this kind of thing I was riffing on, like, yeah, man, cosmic philosopher. I'm going to like, and I think I was hung up on the fact that our fifth record, all of a sudden we felt like Elder Statement or something.

You know, a lot of bands don't get to their fifth record. So I was kind of Throughout the record I feel like I was giving advice It feels like I didn't really feel like in hindsight I was in a position to be giving advice It was like some asshole Older brother saying like

Hey kid, here's how you do it You know So that wasn't great Young Padawan, please Let me give you some advice My young sons Um, so that, that wasn't great. Young Padawan, please. Let me give you some advice. My, my young sons. Yeah. It was like, what am I doing?

Like when I listened back, well, who did I think I was and who did, what did I think people wanted from me? And then the next record was hard, a little hard too. Um, we got a little stuck and it took a while and um uh um we went that was called teeth dreams and that's um kind of just like uh like like sonically i i think when i look back the last three records we made with this guy josh kaufman i don't know if you know him but he's he's a great producer he's made my solo records too. And he always says, hey, we want rock and roll, but we don't necessarily want rock. And I was like, that makes sense to me. I don't know what it means exactly, but rock without the roll is,

I think, what we maybe ended up with Tea Dreams. Maybe it's a little hard rock. it up with tea dreams maybe it's a little hard rock um um maybe it's a little bit um modern or something um in a way but it doesn't sound as fun as again i think a whole steady record i think a whole steady record should have even if it's got dark topics or whatever i think it should sound fun um and i think um And I think that I think you can tell when we're having fun. Well, yeah, of course. And how can you have fun when you're in this

accidental dilemma with your band? Your boys just broke up. It's like everyone could smell shit from a mile away. When we're full of shit about being happy, when we're sad. Maybe in your head, you weren't really that happy during those times

to make fun records because your boy was gone. You're probably sleep deprived and you're drinking. It was an avalanche of stuff. I have this thing I tell myself always that which is like

if you think you're getting away from with something if you think you're getting away with something you aren't but if you think everyone's paying attention to you they aren't either you know i mean meaning like if you think you're fooling someone you're probably not but also if you wake up like one morning you're like did i make a fool And you're like, no, everyone else is thinking the same thing this morning. Everyone else was paying attention to themselves. But you don't get away with things. And you can't say like, hey, this is our record. We're really happy.

This is great. If people listen to that, I'm like, no, you aren't. No. Yeah. I mean, why is there so much pressure to just always put out new content even if we're not happy with the results of it? Well, I think my theory on that is that is 100% internal pressure. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, you may. I mean, maybe you may have someone who's telling you that, but at least the way in the modern music industry, at least the way we've structured it, we don't have anyone telling us anything about that kind of thing. And it's great. I mean, it's like, you know, maybe if I was younger or there was like a major label or something that was like, guys, you need this, you need this. And it's like, no one's, no one's ever telling me that and hasn't been for a long time, which feels good because then, you know.

But you have to also, I think, this is me giving advice again. I'm back on heaven as whenever. Young Padawan. But I do think you have to listen to yourself. And I've found in my life most of the pressure I felt turned out to be from myself. Right. Why do we put more pressure on ourselves versus putting pressure on anyone else? I don't know.

I think that's one of the mysteries of life. Maybe it's a little bit of a survival mechanism man because like you know if no one was putting pressure on you maybe you just you know you'd sit there until you grow old and die yeah um you know you want to put i feel like it's maybe good we put a little pressure on ourselves but yeah i think you have to kind of check in with yourself and say is this is this happening is this pressure exist outside of my head? Right. Well, you know, it's like, and then that goes back to your songwriting.

It seems like you talk about a bunch of characters, you know, like you put in retrospect your character-based songwriting. I've always been curious, like, what's the craziest story you've turned into a song? That's a good question uh i mean because a lot of these songs are are are are fictitious but i you know they always start with sort of a small bit of truth yeah and uh you know i mean one of them like one one you, yeah, let me think for a second, because there's got to be, there definitely got to be something that I've thought about. There's, I mean, I'm trying to think.

Now I'm putting my own pressure on myself because it has to be great, right? No, it doesn't. It's just a podcast. We're just talking. I mean, you know, I was thinking I knew this guy who was living in a house, his own house, but it got foreclosed on. And he was living in a house where the electricity and the gas had been turned off. And they'd actually taken his car away.

Oh, fuck. And it was in the suburbs, so there was nowhere. You had to drive to places you know and it was like um and you know things had gone poorly for whatever reason and and and i and so but i started thinking a lot about that and i started to um at that around that time i read about ulysses S. Grant, who he had come back from the Army. Pre-presence. Yeah, but first he was in the Army, I think, and he came back to Galena, Illinois, where he was from, and the family had a business.

And he did poorly. He had debts, I think maybe, I don't know if it was gambling, but just debts. He wasn't paying his bills. I think it's implied maybe he was drinking. He was not thriving. Right. And he did that for seven or eight years, and things had gone poorly. And then the Civil War broke out, and he was like, well, you know what I can do?

I was pretty good at being in the Army, you know, or the military, whatever. And so he joined up to that again because he felt like that was a worthy thing. And when he joined, he started to thrive in the military, and he ended up becoming, you know, a general. And then to that, he led the Union to the, you know, victory and became the president of the United States. To that, he led the union to the victory and became the president of the United States. But he had this seven, eight years where he was really not thriving. And so I wrote a song. And in that Fitzgerald book, what's it called? Sometimes a Great Notion.

There's a line in there that says, I'm granted Galena, meaning you know meaning he's he's failing um and so i wrote a song called grant at galena um about um someone who was living in a uh in a uh house that was foreclosed upon and didn't have electricity or uh gas and they were walking to the store because they didn't have a car and the chorus was kind of, I'm Grant at Galena. I need a new war. He needed direction. Do you think everyone needs to

fall off the horse to learn how to get back up on it? Yeah. I think so. Life is long so I don't see how anyone really avoids it. I mean, there's also existential crises that are part of it. I mean, think about like I like watching sports, and you think like at 50,

they talk about like a quarterback being really old at 32 or something like that. And you're like, that guy, it's gone really well for him. He's playing NFL football. He was great in college. He was great in high school. But, you know, for 32 years, 35 years, he's known only this. I bet you there's at very least, I mean, he's probably financially set, but at very least he could have an existential spiritual crisis

coming up when he stops playing football. I think everyone has their moment, you know, and certain things are covered, you know, whether it's like maybe you already made money or maybe you're confident about one thing in your life or a few things,

but something's going to happen, you know? Yeah, exactly. And I feel like maybe that was like a blessing in disguise that you guys had that little hiatus with Franz to make you realize what you're missing. Yeah, yeah. And not to get heavy on you, but...

No, get heavier. So I woke up this morning, and I realized that today, 10 years ago, my mother passed away. Oh, wow. And that was a really, like, you know, I talk about things that send you into an existential spiritual crisis. I had a very good relationship. My parents were married until she died. relationship my parents were married until she died and um i the next few years um i mean grief love and grief are like the two things right like that i figure that like that like in this world we don't really understand right we can do we we're very scientific these days we do research

and we figure out we figure out all these. We figure out how to cure diseases and whatnot. Love is a mystery and grief is a mystery. It's like, wow, what happened? I just fell in love. But grief was a weird thing for me. And it was not as linear as I expected it to be, meaning I was with my mother when she passed away. And there was some part of that was beautiful.

I was there, you know, and I got to say goodbye. And there was nice closure and we already had a good relationship. But then I went home. In fact, she passed to Minneapolis where I'm from. And I went home and then, you know, a few months later, it's like, actually what happened was, you know, a few months later, some days were good, some days were bad. And then a few months later, my girlfriend who I live with had brought a cat into our relationship. And that cat was kind of old and that cat died in maybe, you know, three, four months later. And that was like, that one set me off.

And like. Did you like become like close with this cat like you just uh connected this cat like why did it set you off i think it was just another death right you know i mean like yes i like the cat but it was like why are these things keep dying around me you know and um and then it was just like and then it was kind of a random good day, bad day kind of thing. And the first real brush I've ever had with actual mental health, like, wow. It was like that thing.

It's not funny, but I mean, it's like that, like, wow, I really didn't do anything today. And I'm kind of a guy who gets things done. I have a to-do list. And it was like, wow, my partner's a nurse, and she went to work, and then she came home, and I really didn't do anything. I didn't even, I was supposed to do my laundry,

and somehow that didn't get done. And that was crazy to me. And obviously, I still miss my mom but i'm you know i think like i've i've uh you know i i've gotten to a different place with it and but but like grief um is one of those things when you talk about a spiritual crisis like um or an existential crisis you can you can be taking care of yourself but people around you are going to leave too. And that will change your life. Yeah. Are you scared of dying?

No, not so much. I mean, I guess I'm scared of being sick. Whatever leads up to dying, that doesn't sound that great most likely. But I don't really spend much time thinking about that you know i mean and i i i do take care pretty good care of myself i'm not trying to brag but like i i i i do i i i look around i say i'm doing pretty good and you know at least you know my mom passed away uh pretty young she was 68 but i just got back i was skiing in snowmass um two weeks ago with my father who's 78 so hell yeah he's kicking it he's doing great yeah so um things are pretty

good on that end so you know um i have at least a pretty good chance of of of doing that yeah you know and going back to the going back back to, you know, you realize, realizing you haven't done anything that day during the passing. Do you think it was like your first realization of depression? I think I've always had, like depression is something I've always like, I've never been like diagnosed with actual, like, you know, depression or been medicated or anything, but it's something I've always like, I've never been like diagnosed with actual like, you know, depression or been medicated or anything,

but it's something like I can feel a gray sort of a grayness is the only way to explain it. Fall coming over me unless I remain active. I mean that in some way. And I mean, you know, uh same exercise is one one absolute way that like it burns it literally feels like it's burning it off yeah like you know like when the when the sun comes through the clouds it's that's what it feels like and so if i if i start to feel it i i i sweat i i do something and uh yeah and move it off. But I don't think it's as –

I think I'm much more prone to being down than I am to have anxiety. Right. I think I can – we all have anxiety on some level, but I think I can get that under control easier. But the depression – and when I was a kid and smoking weed a lot and all that kind of thing, like college, that was maybe where you'd get depressed. I wouldn't move around as much and get out of bed late and that kind of thing, which that's probably just teenage stuff.

But when I look back on it, I think that also mixes in with depression. Yeah, and as I get older, I smoke less weed. I can't really smoke real high-potent weed anymore because I'm in my head. I feel the gray cloud coming back. It wasn't like when I was having fun getting high when I was a kid. Now it's like, oh, here it comes. Tidal wave. It really sucks because I actually feel a hang.

It's a different, it's not an alcohol hangover, but there is a hangover if I was to smoke weed. So it's kind of like there's not much of it. And it's a fogginess. Clarity and energy is what I'm kind of into now. Again, when you wake up early and you become a morning person, you're like I have the whole day in front of me. And I

find I like creatively, like if I'm writing, everything before lunchtime is better. I love it too. I love writing in the morning. I mean, when I'm not all hung over, strung out, I mean I fucking work. Because I can't work at night because like it doesn't make sense

to me. You brought up a good point of that. The first half of your records were a lot about partying and fucking getting down and nitty gritty. Then the second half is really about mental health and focusing on internal self-being.

How is... Do you enjoy the approach of talking about mental health now that you've experienced all those years of partying? I think what it is is I've realized there are two sides of the same coin. Myself or a friend who's year 22, that's partying. Then at 42, it's like, man, he can't stop partying.

You know, like, what is it? And then you realize, like, why is that? Why is that? Someone I knew put something online that I thought was really wise, which was like, you know, make sure your partying's in order in your 20s because in your 30s, it, yous, it can come home to roost. Right. And I think that's probably good advice.

I think that, you know, you can go pretty crazy on your 20s, but, like, keep an eye on it, you know? Yeah. You know? And I think that mental health ends up being the root of all these things. I mean, I joked with a friend, but it's very true. It's like, I think when I was first writing songs, I was really interested in the guy who was maybe doing a lot of drugs.

Now I'm interested in why his grandma gives him $200 every day so he can go buy drugs and what that relationship, what that codependent relationship is. Oh oh yeah all the mind games around that you know and if the grandma knows what she's what he's spending the money on yeah she sort of does but he's got her on like all these guilt trips yeah and manipulation and it's his dad's fault and that's her son and she feels bad because she doesn't, you know. It's all this like psycho stuff that, you know, that fascinates me at 50.

Where at 25, I was like, you know, it's awesome. People getting wasted. Yeah, you know, and with that fascination, did you realize if you're doing that, that type of manipulation to your band to keep everyone going during the strung out years? No, I hope not. I mean, I think, you know, the thing about being in a band is there's always,

there's like, you know, and I don't know if I said it ever felt bad, bad, but like, you know, if there's things that felt less fun. But there is something about, and i think you'll relate that like like you know even after a bad travel day or just a bad whatever relationship day you get on stage you put on the guitar you get behind your instruments and you start playing and it's like okay yeah this is good this part is good. This part is good. Like the other 23, 22.5 hours were really hard today. But this is good. And if we can continue to do this, we'll at least have this every day or most days. And every time I've sort of felt bad, I've always been pulled back from that.

from that. And I think some part of it was, some part of that struggle, when there was struggle, was building things to be able to get where we are now, where we have been able to eliminate the things that we don't find as

fun. Yeah, totally. And our taste gets better. We used to enjoy just getting fucked up And not remembering Now we want to remember and have more substance in our life Yeah Yeah

It's like People are going to When we do these weekends It's like what did you do today I went to see this thing at the museum It's like oh wow We never used to do that. We used to like crash in the van. Hey, I'm actually going to read a book today and learn a little bit about myself instead

of nursing a hangover from the 4 a.m. bender. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Beautiful, man. You know, I know we're running out of time. I want to talk about this new record. What are you talking about on this album? What knowledge do you want to give the people? What stories do you want to tell the people? Give it to me, Craig. Well, I think that the record's called The Price of Progress,

and I think what it really relates to is kind of how where we're at now with technology. We've made so much improvements in technology. They've improved our lives in a lot of ways. They've made us very, very efficient, but at some cost. And I think some of, a lot of our problems in our, you know, in our culture, in our world, are us kind of reeling from these advances in technology that we've had. And I think that that's one part of it.

You know, we're talking about mental health. That's certainly a lot on the record. But there's this idea of sort of late-stage capitalism, where we're at with, you know, work and money and income inequality and all that and sort of how it relates to technology. And I think, like, this late-stage capitalism, for instance, has always been sort of the backdrop of Hold Steady songs. I think on this record, the backdrop's taken three steps forward,

and now the actors are kind of bumping their elbows on it, the characters and the songs. The first song is called Grand Junction, and that's about a couple that's driving around out west to Grand Junction, Colorado. They're just driving around aimlessly, but they're fighting, and they're fighting because the woman of the couple has this Amazon wish list.

And she's talking to weird guys online. And they're sending her gifts. And the dude's not that into it. But he's also kind of like, we need money. So maybe one of those guys could send you something. We could sell it. And that's like, when we started the band, there was no Amazon wish list. But that's kind of like a new technology that I kind of have been thinking about.

And also, those kind of stories are coming up from these things. Or OnlyFans. Yeah. A lot of the songs on the record kind of deal with the way we're trying to interface with this technology. I think a lot of people on the record are taking, rather than going with slow and steady, no pun intended as far as the hold steady, but are taking big swings. It's all or nothing. You know? It's like, I don't want to, I don't, I'd rather win the lottery, you know, than, like, you know, I'd put all my money on this blackjack hand rather

than, you know, go try to build something small and keep going. You know? So I think it seems like, I think it's our most au courant, you know? Our most modern record, our most topical record. Yeah, and with that being said, you know, what's your take on like chat GPT and how everything's going out of like how it's turning into Terminator over here? You know, I think obviously there's a part of it that's scary,

but actually, funny enough, I just interfaced with it yesterday for the first time. And one of the things that I thought is that it wasn't, at this point, it didn't make me feel like it was coming for my job quite yet. But a lot of my creativity is filling up a page with stuff and then moving it around. Meaning like first thing I do is I write a song and that might be a bad song and then I try to make it better. And the Chad GPT does kind of populate that page for you. So I wonder if there's an opportunity to use that to harness some stuff

to make your own, to take out a step and make your own thing happen. Because I think that what I saw is some of the, it could display options for you if you wanted to go that way or that way in a way that was very quick. And you're like, okay, all right, well then that's right there. But when I looked at it, it also helped me, it spurred a lot of ideas for me that weren't on that page. So did you like do a poem?

Did you like say like, hey, Chad GPT, what do you think of this track? What do you think do a poem? Did you say, hey, ChatGPT, what do you think of this track? What do you think of this poem? Or how do you think I should write this? Or how did you approach sending ChatGPT your art? I was with a friend, and he was kind of showing it to me. And he was like, write a song about this topic in the style of the Hold Steady. Oh, really? And it came out steady oh really and it came out yeah and it came out and it wasn't it wasn't good nor did i think it like really sounded like the hold steady but

it was like okay well that's interesting that's what you think it is that's like the most basic version of this so like what if we flipped it on its head you know what if we what if we you know what if we what would we change you know you could i mean you can almost go mad libs on it and say like okay now there's a structure right now like let's change it let's change every now to make something more interesting you know it's fascinating because yeah it's basically it's everything that's collected on the internet what people said about you what people like what you put out. So it's like, it's kind of like if you either take it as insulting or you take it as like, Oh,

this is what people think of me. Let's fucking flip this whole motherfucker out. Let's flip the whole thing on its head and let's just change the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. And like, but you know, if you take it as,

as that, like, like, you know, some part of it takes them every time you're making something, you have all these decisions. Should there be two verses in the song or three verses? So you put it in chat for GPT, and it comes out with three verses, and you're like, okay, well, this song has three verses then. Right.

You know what I mean? then. You know what I mean? That decision is no longer made by me. That's one way to approach it and say, I'm going to let this make a few decisions for me, but I'm going to make the most important decisions. Bring it on. All right, Craig, I got one last question and I'll let you go. Thank you.

When it's all said and done, what do you want the Hold Steady to be remembered by? I think we want to be... I'm trying to say this in a like a like i i think we want to remember it as a great rock band um with an even more amazing community yeah um around the band yeah i can't it's it's amazing the cult following you guys have through Europe or through London. We didn't even talk about how that got big. How did that get big?

We went over there and it was in 07 and the record just kind of, that record, Boys and Girls in America, happened. And we liked it. I think that's one part of it. We, Boys and Girls in America, happened. And we liked it. I think that's one part of it. We really liked it. And we met great people.

Right. And people related to it. And we did touring in mainland Europe. And we enjoyed that as well. But that didn't quite catch on. Our shows weren't as big. but I think some of our London shows have been our biggest headlining shows ever. Throughout England, we've had great shows.

And so we liked it, and we just made it a priority to come back. And the community that I talk about, the community that's in the States, has its counterpart in England, and actually they mix. Are Americans coming to the Weekender and vice versa? And definitely vice versa. But yeah, Americans are definitely coming to the Weekender in London. And tons of English people come to the massive nights in Brooklyn. And in both cases, people come from all around the world,

which is pretty amazing. Well, Craig, keep the dream alive. You're the fucking man. I'm a big fan of you. And just keep writing tunes, man. And keep fighting the good fight about mental health. And keep just writing great lyrics. Because I could say I'm a fan.

And I know a ton of your fans just want you to keep doing it. So don't get burned out. OK, bud? Thank you so much, man. I'm going to take care of myself. Good, good, good. All right, let's have a beer when i get back into brooklyn we'll have a hand i love that cheers craig thanks for being on the show take care man later bud you tuned in to the world podcast with andy fresco thank you for listening to this episode produced by andy fresco joe

angelo and chris lawrence We need you to help us save the world and spread the word. Please subscribe, rate the show, give us those crazy stars, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up. Follow us on Instagram at world saving podcast for more info and updates. Fresco's blogs and tour dates you'll find at andyfresco.com. And check our socials to see what's up next. Might be a video dance party, a showcase concert, that crazy shit show, or whatever springs

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