Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 221: Round 3 with Vince Herman (Leftover Salmon)

Episode Date: May 30, 2023

You are about to enter another dimension. A dimension not only of sight and sound, but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land of imagination. Two men with a whole lotta heart offering each other support and a couple of chuckles through time & space. Vince Herman: you are a beautiful soul and we're lucky to exist on this planet alongside ya. Keep in touch with him at www.vinceherman.com Watch this episode streaming now!! Psyched to partner up with our buddies at Volume.com! Check out their roster of upcoming live events and on-demand shows to enrich that sweet life of yours. Call, leave a message, and tell us how you really feel: [phone]  Check out our new single, You Do You streaming on Spotify and Apple Music now! And while you're at it, give a big middle finger to the bigots in your life And don't forget to catch the band in a town near you andyfrasco.com/tour Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out our good friends that help us unwind and sleep easy while on the road and at home: dialedingummies.com Produced by Andy Frasco, Joe Angelhow, & Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Vince Herman Ricky! The U.N.

Hey Schwartz, I'm sitting up here at a show, got a lot of shit going on. I'm getting blown up by our group text with your amazing label services folks at Soundly. And you sent the group a picture of some mushrooms or something. And then you say, sorry, wrong group. And I don't know what, again, what the fuck? What world? I don't know if you think it's funny, but I can tell you that I'm not texting the wrong group shit

that they shouldn't be getting. And so I'm trying to help you here. You know, we spoke this morning. You're on fire. You're kicking ass. You're doing everything right. You're having a killer morning in a super group, getting a ton of shit done. And now here you are capping off your day, no pun intended,

capping off your day with a fucking text of mushrooms to your label. So I'm not sure how that makes a lot of sense, but maybe check who you're sending shit to. Okay, bye. I'm going to make a toast. Everybody, this is a dream come true. I love you guys with all my heart and

I just hope we just keep doing this until we're fucking 155 years old. Cheers. Sing us a song, Vincy. Sing us a song. Sing us a song. Sing us a song. Please take my advice But never, never on a Sunday A Sunday, a Sunday Oh, no, that will not do Cause if you drink there on a Sunday

A Sunday, a Sunday I'll fall in love with you Everybody! La, la, la, la La, la, la, la, la La, la, la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la, la, la. Cha, cha, cha. Ricky.

All right, and we're back. Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our minds? Are we staying out of trouble? Are we staying just a little bit outside of the darkness? It's okay to stay, you know, you have a little bit of darkness in our lives, but we just got to be close enough to the sun. So just in case the darkness gets a little too deep, we could just walk to the other side of the street because

this is all we got. We got one life to live and I'd rather live it knowing that I could get to the sunshine. But maybe you can't. Maybe sometimes you're just depressed and feel like there's no hope for sunshine, but you got to get out of your head a little bit and realize things change all the time. little bit and realize things change all the time. Personalities change, feelings change, it all changes. So keep your head up and know that good times are on its way. Yeah, this is great. I'm solo on this one because we have Vince Herman.

I interviewed Vince Herman for the fourth time and every time he flies into Denver, because he lives in Nashville now, so I don't get to really see him as much, unless I'm writing my record. Because I've written like five songs now with Vinny on the last couple records. But he came to the house and we talked for like fucking 90 minutes.

So I'm going to make this opening short so we could just get down to the nitty gritty so you could hear, you know, the thoughts of Vince Herman. But I love Vince. He's the best. He's the goat, leftover salmon, the guy who I emulate a lot in this life or inspire to be in my life. You know, he is the life of the party. He's got thoughtful lyrics and he really cares about the scene. And that's everything I want to be in my scene as well. So you're going to love this interview.

But first we got to talk about our sponsors. Dialed in Gummies. Yes. From Colorado. Go grab yourself some Dialed in Gummies. It's a very Colorado episode. We got Vince Herman on the show. So you might as well be eating Dialed in gummies if you're in the Colorado area.

They, um, they're the best. I take them every day when I go to sleep or I take a half or a quarter when I'm flying just to get that little, little, little Zen moment because, you know, everyone needs, everyone is going through anxiety or maybe like for me, like it's hard for me to smoke like anything anymore. I have like bad allergies and bad sinuses. So if I need a little buzz, popping a little dialed in gummies and we're all set to go. And then also if you want to watch this video,

like watch it with your eyes and not just your ears, head to volume.com, go to volume.com slash Andy Frasco. All the podcasts are archived in there. So if you want to watch, you want to go back and maybe you listen to one on Apple or Spotify. You're like, I want to re-watch it or re-listen to it, but I want to see my favorite artists.

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All right, Vince Herman. Wow. I'll do the pitch for Vince right now, even though podcast fans, you know Vinny. Vince Herman, Leftover Salmon. He started a solo project. He's going Tupac on that ass right now. He's got the Vince Herman band. He's got the High Hawks

with Adam Gruhl with Adam and Brian Adams. Tim Carbone from Railroad Earth. I sat in with the High Hawks last week or a couple weeks ago and

that band's on fire. It's like a bluegrass band turned rock and roll, which I fucking loved. And then Leftovers going on tour. It's like a crazy... They got a crazy song. I'm worried about him. He's going to be busy as shit.

So I was glad he stayed at the house and we had a beer or two and a conversation about life. But Chris, play some Leftover Salmon. Or play, actually, Chris, play some Vince Herman Band. He's going solo. Play a song from the Vince Herman Project. He's the man.

He's my favorite person on the planet. He keeps me optimistic. He keeps me inspired. I really think you're going to love this. He's going on tour. It's like a super bluegrass tour. He's going on tour with Railroad Earth. And who else?

I forgot the other band. But the other band is going to be pissed that I said that because they've been on the podcast multiple times. And then he's also going on tour with Little Feet. Leftover Sam is going on tour with Little Feet as well. Big summer for the boys. I'm excited for them. I'm happy for them. They're out there. They're fucking

kicking ass. And then you'll see Vince Herman and his solo band is going on tour too. I think I'm playing with them at Mountain Music Festival. And so we're going to do a super jam, you know, how we always do. That's my boy. Alright guys, are you ready? I'm ready. This is 90

minutes of fucking knowledge. Knowledge nuggets from our man. The field we roam Every road is a new beginning Leading us back home I was made for the road less traveled You were made to be right here by my side. Lay your head on my shoulder.

Let go of your worried mind. Kick back and enjoy the ride. The hero comes to town. Vince Herman. Hey, bud. How you doing? I'm fresh off the plane, man. I know.

Tell me why San Francisco. You just got back from San Francisco. Yeah. Why is San Francisco so important to you? Why do you always keep going back for Wavy Gravy's birthday? Oh, Wavy Gravy is just, I don't know of any other human who has done so much with a life. Right. Really, there's a film about him called St. Misbehaving that kind of gets into it.

But, man, he's done everything. Those famous riots in Chicago in 68, Mayor Daley and stuff, Wavy had his back broken at that. What? He suffered with it for years with back pain. How'd he break his back? The police beat the hell out of him in the riots in 68 in Chicago

when Mayor Daley was, you know, won't you please come to chicago and all that stuff what the fuck in fact i just saw a thing with graham nash saying that wavy gravy called him said hey you should come to chicago and he wrote that's when he wrote that song holy shit so his back was broken and all that stuff and for all these years since then he's been going to kids hospitals and stuff as a clown and you're just bringing brightness to them even though he's in just total debilitating pain is patch abams about him yes well patch and he were good friends what yeah so patch was a person too that was doing this

and like so they were like a team and they were just basically help making people happy in hospitals they they definitely spring from the same humanity. Just really great people. I mean, he's done things. He's told me stories about when the International Whaling Commission was about

to try to make regulations to stop whaling. They went to The Hague in the Netherlands where this world meeting was taking place. Just to show presence for the whales.

Bay Area guy. You gotta support the whales. So, you know, they were doing what they could to do the thing and they were part of kind of related to the street theater scene. The Chicago actors who did this real kind of thing. Their whole thing of theater was bringing reality into it.

So they took theater to the streets. And that's what the Chicago riots were in 68 and all that kind of stuff. The Living Theater, it was called. Well, Wavy took those lessons, and as they were hanging out in the Hague wondering what they could do, they got this idea to get a water pump, a hose, and spray it out through the RV

that they were traveling across Europe in. And they got paper mache and made the RV into a whale, and then drove in front of the Hague with all these reporters and all this stuff. And there was this whale driving through that got on all the international news programs and all that stuff. I mean, oh my, wavy fucking grave. He shows up at protests as Santa Claus now. So he doesn't get beaten up. Who's going to beat up Santa Claus? No one's going to beat up Santa Claus now so he doesn't get beaten up. Who's going to beat up Santa Claus?

No one's going to beat up Santa Claus. So how did he get in cahoots with the dead and that whole San Francisco scene? Why did he move to San Francisco? Well, he was a beat poet. He was in... I just hung out with Maria Maldauer this weekend. She said that she saw Hugh Romney,

who was what was Wavy's name before B.B. King gave him the name Wavy Gravy. B.B. King gave Wavy the name? At the Fillmore. Why? Man, you're like Wavy Gravy. You're like Wavy Gravy. Shout out to B.B. King. Let's go.

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, he was a beat poet In New York And you know I guess You know The beats And all that Had a pretty big

Stronghold there In San Francisco too And I'm not sure How that migration happened But once it did He was part of the BNs And the acid tests And all that stuff

How has he inspired you Through your entertainment You know Career Like how Did you want to be him When you were a kid Or of tests and all that stuff. How has he inspired you through your entertainment career? Did you want to be him when you were a kid? No, I didn't want to be him until I became an adult. And then I became a kid.

He's a kid, right? He runs a kid's camp, Camp Win a Rainbow, which is what the benefit was for this weekend, along with the SEVA Foundation, who he started and as has i think it's over 500 000 people wow who have had their eyesight restored by the seva foundation which gets doctors to go to places all around the world that don't have access to simple cataract surgery and people walk from villages for miles and miles to come to these clinics.

And over 500,000 people can see on the earth because of Wavy Gravy and the Sava Foundation. Holy shit. I mean, this just... This man is unbelievable. Scratching the surface of all that he's done. So why do you think he... What pushes him to

do all this amazing stuff, you think? Love. Like all of us. No question about it. He's just pure love. What pushes him to do all this amazing stuff, you think? Love. Like all of us. Yeah. No question about it. He's just pure love. How does one become pure love, you think? Well, one of the effects of being pure love is that Wavy never, he doesn't have a mansion.

He lives in this house that he shared with the farm, the hog farm kind of cooperative. They have the ranch up in Laytonville, and then they have this house in Oakland that they've lived in since the late 60s. And he has one room in this house, and he and his wife are there. He doesn't have an income. He's just love, so that's one of the things about living for love. I mean, he's got an ice cream named after him.

Shut the fuck up. He does all this stuff. He does all these great benefits for so many people. But, you know, he's just a simple man. He's done fantastic things for humanity. Does he bow his money? He just doesn't ever get paid. He just doesn't have any. That's pretty wild.

He's the Bodhisattva. So to live like that, contently, and everyone always taking care of you, that's how much the universe gives back to all the love he probably gives, right? Yeah. What about you?

Are you all love? God, I wish. You love to work? Always? I always had to work. Yeah. Were you like poor? Did you grow up poor? I always had to work. Yeah. Were you, like, poor? Did you grow up poor and shit?

I didn't grow up poor, but, you know, I didn't grow up extravagant anyways. My dad was a union steel worker. No shit. Mom was a, you know, housekeeper. And, you know, I guess, you know, well, back then, union guy, you could make a living and feed a family of seven. Yeah. You know, on that. But he had two other jobs, too.

He was a cabinetmaker. And, you know, if he had some time off, he'd shuffle cars for the local car dealer to different places and stuff. You know, like he was working all the time. So I think I get my work ethic from him. Yeah. What did you learn from seeing him double dip in all these careers? Like, damn, this motherfucker's got to do all this shit to raise all

of us? That's fucking a lot of stress on his hands. Did he ever show it? Did he take it out on you guys? He's real calm, kind of. Just stoic, kind of take it as it comes. Real quiet sense of humor.

If you did crack a joke, it was a good one. But I learned to talk politics with him. What did he teach you? Well, he was in favor of Nixon all during the Watergate thing, and I had a paper route. And I felt like you had to read the paper if you were going to deliver it. And I felt like you had to read the paper if you were going to deliver it. You know?

Yeah. So, you know, I was digesting the news. And that's one of the things we really bonded over, I guess, was talking politics. What was his, like, take on politics versus yours? Once Nixon was kicked out, he started voting for Reagan, you know? Oh, so he was always right? Yeah, far right.

Wow. And then you became a fucking hippie. Yeah, absolutely. And then what happened there? Was the dynamic changed? Did he ever want you to be like a right-wing guy? Or did he let you just be a fucking hippie? No, no. That was it, man. In another day, not like today, you could have political

differences and not have it affect your personal relationships. I know. Why did they? Another day, not like today, you could have political differences and not have it affect your personal relationships. I know. Why do you think? That's the thing that's happened. Yeah. Wow. I just thought about that.

That's so true. What do you think that is? Because social media made us just know the whole being instead of just knowing the idea of a person? That might have something to do with it. And the algorithms that social media feed us to promote conflict. We're living in algorithm times. And man, it's weird, man.

Wait till AI starts getting a hold of stuff, man. Yeah. So I'm glad I remember things like wrestling and payphone booths. Think about if you were a kid. Think about if you were a kid. Think about if you were starting Leftover or starting Salmon. Or what was your first band called? My first band? Left Hand String Band.

Before that. In college, I did a thing called Free Beer. Free Beer, yeah. And Nexus. Think about if you had to start Nexus and Free Beer in 2023. Ooh. Do you think you would still have this career for 50 years? You know, I don't know, but it would be fun to be 18 again.

Fuck yeah. You know, that would be fun. I wouldn't mind a do-over. Yeah? But it's a rougher world now, I think. Yeah. Do you think you could be Vince Herman that you transformed in, in 2023? I don't know, man.

Because you're so free. I mean, I guess the times and history makes us who we are, I think. The times we interact with. What Wavy Gravy became out of the 60s. And being a leader at that time of a social movement that was huge. That made him who he is. I don't know, playing bluegrass at the Gold Hill Inn. No, you're the festival king.

Who I am or something. No, dude, you are a legend in a lot of people's eyes, Vince. You are that wavy gravy to me. You're that wavy gravy I know to a lot of people. Jack Cloonan, you know. Dave Bruza. As Wavy describes himself, i am a temple of accumulated error it was hampton like that too oh absolutely and was he just pure heart too did he have money

like did he like oh no make money it was just straight no no he you know that when i went to his place in florida he was living in a trailer, you know, out in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. It was cheap. You know, it was hot, you know, and he was, no, he just, you know, his gigs, he never got the, you know, the big gigs, you know, that all the folks who he ruined. Right. who he ruined. Right.

Did, you know. You know, but he was the mentor of so many people. But no, he himself, he never really had that big mailbox money. Why is it all these guys have, they inspire so many people, but they're the brokest ones? Because there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. They don't mind it. Nothing wrong with that. You know? Yeah't mind it. Nothing wrong with that.

You know? Yeah. See, I grew up in a community where, and I was like, my parents taught me, I have to make money. Yeah. Money, money, money, fucking money. You got to make the goddamn money.

Yeah. I'm like, it's stressing me out. Yeah. But like, I wish I could feel that way. How do I change my mindset of just like, not worrying about money and just worrying about, I guess, being present, I guess? Because I do give a lot of love to everyone, but I still stress about money all the fucking time.

Well, man, you're in the love business, man, and business takes some attention and some head space to how to figure out how to make it all work, man. Putting six guys into, I mean, I bought a Toyota Sequoia for 5,000 bucks about six months ago. And I'm touring with Vince Herman band, the six guys in the back, there's a missing seat in the back. So it's, it's like the hole you get to sit in the hole. You know, someone takes the straw man to be the sixth guy back to the fucking old days, baby

Let's go Is that a weird transition? Just being on a bus with Leftover And then doing your own project And having to be in Tacoma and shit It's great, man I get to be in a band with my son That's what I wanted

I wish he was here with us Him growing up and shit I think of this with LeBron James His son, so he's been in the league That's what I wanted. I wish he was here with us. Yeah. Like him growing up and shit. It's like, I think of this with LeBron James, his son. So he's been in the league. He's,

he's 40. His son had just turned 17 going to USC. Then he's going to go to the pros. So this is going to be the time LeBron and his kid could play together. Ooh. But like, how, what,

how does that, I think about that moment. Like I don't have kids, so I don't know that how truly magical that must fucking feel that Silas, you know, followed your footsteps and being a musician. And now you guys are playing together. Like, what's that fucking feel like? It's the best.

And, you know, Colin, my other boy, is a musician also. Oh, yeah, THC. Yeah, yeah. Herman Clayton. Songwriter, singer, you also. Oh, yeah, TSC. Yeah, yeah. Herman Klein. Songwriter, singer. They're both doing this thing, and I apologize to them for sending them down that road. But I think we've learned that this is how you enjoy life with friends, and it's the thing to do to make music and make joy.

Like I said, that's just what we do right you know yeah it's it's crazy i don't know how like do you remember the moment where you realized oh shit this is exactly what i want to do um i remember when i understood what music was for for the first time where were you how old were old were you? Give me the whole thing. I was in eighth grade at the Smoky City Folk Festival in Shenley Park in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in the summer. Took a bus into town. You could take the bus that young?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Eighth grade? Oh, 13. Yeah. People were older when they were younger back then. That's true. You know?

Yeah. My mom older when they were younger back then. That's true. You know? Yeah. My mom was so neurotic. I had to have a walkie talkie to go to the fucking park. That was a park with two walks. Okay. You're on the bus. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.. I'm a band of the band. I'm a band of the band of the band of the band of the band of the band of the band of the band of the band of the band pittsburgh area and i see like these 30 people underneath the tree playing banjos mandolins and fiddles doing these doing these old time tunes that i realized man like these people don't know each other necessarily right and they're doing that that's what's music's for and if you learn this common repertoire these old time tunes and bluegrass tunes, and it occurred to me that I'd always wanted to travel. And it occurred to me, man,

if I learned those and I could travel, I could meet people and have friends wherever I went playing this stuff, sign me up. Wow. So that's where you found music 13

Now Give me the moment Where you're in that van Or in that car Traveling for the first time And said Now I want to be A vagabond

Okay At my first gig ever A guy named Al Pickett Who I'd met on the street In Pittsburgh Playing at At an arts festival I was just busking

On the street In Pittsburgh? Yeah How old were you. I was just busking on the street. In Pittsburgh? Yeah. How old were you? I was probably 10th grade. Sick. So two years later. Maybe 16.

And you're two years into an instrument? What, guitar? Oh, no. I started playing at three years old. Oh, six. You're good. I played a rubber band on a cut-out plywood guitar at three years old. So why did it take ten years?

And then I started taking guitar lessons in third grade. By eighth grade, I was already playing and doing that kind of stuff. And then I saw what it was for. So tenth grade, I'd met this guy with an upright bass on the street in Pittsburgh. And he said, hey, man, you want a job in this country band I'm playing with this weekend? You guys just walking around the street by yourselves with your guitars and all that? Yeah, busking, you know? In Pittsburgh?

Yeah. Was Pittsburgh popping? During the arts festival, it was. Sick. So yeah, man, he came uh picked me up in my van i wheeled my guitar amp out to the van and jumped in and he fired up a big one and put in david grissman mondo mando record really which which i'd never heard anything like it and went to the gig and i had a absconded with some of my mother's mascara. And I got that little bit of mustache hair

that I had enhanced. And I used Al's ID and drank that night. No way. And it worked? They were like, this motherfucker ain't fucking 21. Or 18. What was it, 18 back then? It was 21.

Yeah, it was Eddie and the Knight Riders. Ed Close, man. This kind of... Were you smoking pot yet? Yeah, yeah. You were smoking pot in eighth grade? Eighth grade, yeah. Eighth grade, ninth grade, something like that.

So you get into the bar, you're 16. Yeah, yeah. What's going on in your head? Like, whoa. Well, the gig was at Archie's Gone Country on Route 51. Is it still there? Outside of Pittsburgh. Probably is.

It's an eternal honky-tonk. I don't want to be there for thousands of years. It seemed like it had been there. But yeah, a red checkered tablecloth and a guy named Archie with a red checkered shirt and a kerchief running around doing that sort of country host thing, you know? Right. And I played with that band probably, you know, 10 or 12 gigs

before they fired me because playing too much of that bluegrass, man. People don't want to hear that. They want to hear country. Who were you listening to in ninth and tenth grade where you're like trying to be inspired by? Oh, man. Doc Watson, David Bromberg, you know know Country Gentleman Rolling White

that kind of stuff so you're playing all that in this rock band and they're like what the fuck's going on yeah no it's not a rock band it was a country band and you're playing all this picking stuff yeah so what'd they do they stop you like

hey kid then you're done so that was the moment and stuff. So what'd they do? They stop? You're like, hey, a kid, and you're done. So that was the moment you're like, I love this? Yeah. Getting kicked out of a band? Yeah.

Thank you. That was my guy. Thank you, Ed. Yeah. Okay. So you get kicked out of this band. Yeah. But did you go on,

were you, did your parents let you like go on a tour in high school? Oh, no, no. I was strictly playing these couple honky-tonk gigs with this guy go on, were you, did your parents let you like go on a tour in high school? Oh, no, no. It was strictly playing these couple of honky tonk gigs with this guy. And then, you know,

you know, I, I put a band together with some high school friends and stuff. We played a couple of graduation parties or something, but, but then I went to school in Morgantown, West Virginia and started playing, you know,

with a bunch of bluegrass and old timey folks. We had a band called Somebody's Wallet and Free Beer and Dutch Boy Paint and the Drips. Were you going regionally? Were you just playing? No, we were just standing on top of tables and bars. What type of college is West Virginia? Was it fratty?

I wasn't sure I was going to go to college, man. In my senior year, my uncle had a heart surgery, and it was down in Morgantown at the university there, and my parents were going to visit him. And they were like, hey, you know, we're going down to visit Uncle Bill. Do you want to go check out the college while we're down there? I said, sure, man. And it was the last day that the Mountaineers played

on their downtown stadium. Oh, my God. And they beat Pitt. Oh, my God. The drinking age was 18. And so they dropped me off at the Student Union. Two hours later,

they picked me up and I'd had beer spilled on me like four or five times from rooftops. I'm like, you know. And I'm thinking, I could learn in this. You know?

Was it that wild? You caught it on the right day. It was like the ultimate party day. It was the ultimate party school. It was professional. They were excluded from the Playboy Party School poll for being professionals for years. Were you, like, getting laid yet? Oh, hell yeah.

You were getting laid in high school? Yeah, yeah. Not nearly as much as college. That's when you start becoming the sexful, the bear beast. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. Wow.

I've seen pictures of you when you were in college. You were hot as fuck. You were. You were. You were ripped. You were hot. I was like, fuck, Vinny. This guy must be getting some pussy out of here.

Let's go. I'll clap it up for that. So you're doing the college runs. You're playing all the frat houses and stuff? No, man. No, we weren't doing college music, man. We were playing rugby parties. So what type of music was it? You know about rugby parties? There's a whole genre of rugby tunes, man. We were playing rugby parties. So what type of music was it?

You know about rugby parties? There's a whole genre of rugby tunes, man. What? Oh, yeah. Is it like Irish fight songs, kind of? Kind of like that in that tradition, but raunchy as hell. So we learned all these raunchy tunes

from the ruggers, and then we'd play them. We'd put music behind them and do all that stuff. So they loved us. Hold on. So going from Doc Watson in high school to this raunchy ass music literally two years later.

Who were you listening to that you fell in love with all the raunchy shit? That was the oral tradition, man. It wasn't recorded. No? It was learning it from people So just meeting people at the bars And songs that are handed down by the rugby players Holy shit

There's this whole genre of rugby songs You know, like soccer songs and all that kind of stuff, you know It's like Irish pubs where they just turn God, I wish I had that I wish we had that in our culture Yeah Maybe they have it in New Orleans. I mean, you just did it in San Francisco yesterday.

Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, doing an old song, you know. Got to do Stealin' with Maria Moldauer. Yeah. You know, which is just a bucket list for me, man. You know, I, yeah, Maria Moldauer is like my model of what a cool hippie chick singer is, man. And you met her once before this? I met her once before, I think, at Sweetwater in Mill Valley.

But this was the first time you got to hang and sing together. What was it like? How did you feel? I'd love it when those kind of circles come around. Did you know she was coming? Were you prepared? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I knew she'd be there, but, you know, I was... We were rehearsing a set with Sam Grissman. Sam Grissman and I played this thing, and I mentioned, you know,

let's do the song Stealin', and then it occurred to me, wow, you know, Maria used to do that with the Jim Queskin Jug Band. Wow, like, I wondered out loud, man, I wonder if Maria would do that. And Sam's like, oh, Aunt Maria? I mean, man, I wonder if Maria would do that. And Sam's like, oh, Aunt Maria?

I grew up going to her house at Thanksgiving. Let me text her right now. Yeah. So we would just walk next door to her room and Sam, this is Vince. Want to do stealing? She's like, I'd love to. Was your heart racing? Oh, absolutely. What was going on? Absolutely.

It's like your heart it's like your high school crush or what is it yeah yeah i mean like it was unbelievable it was unbelievable and she sings so well you know and is such a character and has been around for so much you know she was you know she toured the garcia she was one of the backup singers for the garcia band you know i mean she's j Queston, you know, the historical stuff, man. But like, she's still just absolutely badass. Dude. Is it crazy seeing all those guys get older?

Yeah, man. It's kind of weird to be 60 and feel like the young guy in the room sometimes, you know. But you're the 60. You're the youngest 60-year-old man. I know. But, like, yeah, it must be. Is it weird getting older? You're such a young spirit.

60th birthday was a different one when you realize there's more behind you than is in front of you. Yeah. That's a tough one to swallow. What were you going through? What were you thinking about? I don't think. I know.

I just do. That's why I love you. How do you stay present through fear? Wow. I guess I really don't do scary stuff. You know, my brother was in an auto accident when I was in grade school, and I hung out on the spinal injury ward for a while and talked to all these guys who'd, you know, swung out of trees

or, you know, climbing this hill or or climbing this hill or doing stupid stuff. And so I kind of swore off doing stupid, dangerous stuff for a long time. Plus, I'm a wimp. But scary in terms of facing death, it's nothing to be scared of.

It's just what happens. It's like going to work. It's just what happens. What about going to work It's just what happens What about when you ate shit at Jam Cruise On that On that fucking motorcycle Remember when you brought That must have been scary Vinny

You were in pain dude I saw you get back on that fucking Were you on that bus that went by You saw me go down I saw the whole fucking thing I saw the whole fucking thing, dude. Oh, God. I saw the whole thing. Oh, God.

And then we were like, that was Vince Herman. What the fuck? They speak Spanish. They're not going anywhere. They just keep going to the travel destination. That must have been scary.

The scary thing was getting back on the boat in time before we were left and the grand caymans but uh yeah that was that was a trip man i had a choice that you know this car went around us and and and you know spun out and can you grab me a cigarette and it was a choice of of t-boning the car or dropping the bike. T-boning you would have died, right? Who knows, man.

Because you're going pretty fast, or no? No, actually, you're in 15, 20, right? Yeah. 25 mile an hour or something like that. Marissa went off the back and kind of landed on her tailbone, and I flew forward in a frog-like position and kind of landed and just tailbone and I flew forward in a frog-like position and kind of landed

and just splayed my legs apart. Your legs are all fucked up. I kind of felt like I was filleted for a few days, man. But I went back onto the boat and saw this incredible Aaron Neville set.

Where he's talking about life and death and you know. Like Sympathica. Yeah. You know, where he's talking about life and death and, you know. Like Sympactico. Yeah. It was, it was incredible. What about when you had the little heart scare? Was that scary?

Yeah. Oh yeah. What was that like for you? What even happened? I didn't really talk to you about it because you were straight into it. Yeah. Because I got there the last day.

Yeah. I think it probably came from sleep apnea. Yeah. At least my surgeon thought it probably did. I do a CPAP machine now. But basically my heart was out of rhythm and the beat was starting in a couple different places rather than in one spot.

So they had to go in and zap it with a laser and a little balloon thing. I thought I was having lung trouble because I was at a gig up in the high country in Colorado, went back to Nashville, saw my doctor, and was like,

man, you got to check out my lungs. I can't breathe, you know? So he, you know, while checking out my lungs, determined that my heart rate was 180 beats a minute. You didn't even feel it? Or were you just...

I thought it was breath, you know. I was just out of breath. You know. Oh, man. So, yeah, I immediately went and they did this thing where they stop your heart and start it again. Do they tell you that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. We're going to stop your heart.

Fired up again. And I was good for about a month and then it happened again. Yeah. Then they took me to do the same procedure and it went back on its own while on the operating table right before they knocked me out. So I got out of that one.

You got lucky. But then it was clear that I had to fix it. Yeah. So we did the more complicated thing there. What were you thinking during this time they've turned it off before they'll start it up again yeah you know i mean did you have to change your lifestyle or like what what do you think it was well you know uh i i gotta you know the iron lung now yeah you know just hopefully that uh that keeps me in rhythm you have

to bring that everywhere yeah is it heavy no no just no because i remember my dad had it and it was a ordeal dude it was like a big old it looked like a like a macbook 1983 dude it was like it's like whoa darth vader's living out here But like it's pretty amazing Science is pretty amazing Yeah That would scare the shit out of me Vince Well you know Maybe I'm not scared enough

Because I haven't really changed my lifestyle You know I don't I don't drink nearly as much as You know perhaps You staying up late still? No you know You know I'm a little more tired than I used to be. And, you know, it ended my cocaine career.

Yeah. That's for sure. Oh, yeah. That was the first thing they said. Don't do, no more cocaine. Yeah, yeah. And not really coffee either. No coffee.

No caffeine. Yeah, yeah. Can you, like, drink? Is that cool? Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. But it's like. Yeah, but I should be losing weight.

And I'm not. And it's something I got to address. But, you know. Yeah. So what do you think stopping you from losing weight? Really good food. I know, me too. I fucking love it. I fucking love it.

And I love to cook. I love to eat. What do you like to cook? Oh man, all kind of stuff. What I really love to do is I love to eat. What do you like to cook? Oh, man. All kind of stuff, man. What I really love to do is grow stuff in the garden, cook it up like a good veggie lasagna made with zucchini or squash right from the garden, you know, and peppers and tomatoes and make your own sauce. Do you think Nashville was the best thing they were having you?

You're surrounded by musicians Songwriters I'm in a more creative period than I've ever been In my life I've written probably more songs Than I have in the rest of my life In the last year and a half Why? Do you think it's because you have all these people around you

That will just help you keep creating Keep creating Yeah, when your environment That's what people do. I go home to Nashville. I have a couple days a week. I'll write one or two of those days with folks that are doing this stuff because it's fun as could be.

I know. I love it. I wondered for years whether my improvisation kind of thing would work in a writing room, and I'm just really psyched with what's been happening with it. And I was really lucky to run into some great writers. As you know, that pile of cats. Oh, my God. We got to tell people about this situation.

So, first of all, we got to shout out to the Davidson Brothers. Yeah. Album's out, man. Let's go. The album's out. Davidson Brothers put out a new record, our boys. Yes, sir. After probably 275 songs were in, they finally picked 13. Yeah. a new record. Our boys, after probably 275 songs written,

they finally picked 13. It's crazy. Those guys are writing machines. And it's such a beautiful, like I lived in West Virginia for five years and just love the place. And this album is an absolute West Virginia love

song. It's so good. And it really gets to my heart and it boogies. It does all this stuff. Do you have any songs on the record? I do. Which ones? Appalachian Breeze

and one other one that I can't remember. You're writing too many goddamn songs. I am. Are you writing for other people? I'm trying to do that You know, this guy named Andy Frasco

Did one of my songs on his new record I mean, we've written now five or six songs together Yeah, yeah I love it so much That entices me to just have a pad out there Because I love Paul McDonald Oh, great guy I mean, these young cats he just got

a hold of me today he's doing this series of concerts like seven or eight of them uh to feed the homeless in nashville you know he's got a an outdoor space to do it in and he's like he's he's making the making the charge doing those good things man what music can do you know who the goat is that young kid there's two goats, I think. Chris Galbuta. Have you ridden with him yet? Oh my fucking God. Monster. Goat status. There's a great one called Field Hippies

with him. Really? Wow, he's so good with words. You are too, so that must have been magical. Came up with his word. Cocomolimushketamine. Look at that naked eye up in the tree. Must done some coca molly musha ketamine genius you know who else is a wordsman is that a aaron ratler aaron rate the air oh my yeah he's god have you written with him oh yeah yeah any two what didn't any of those tunes make the record yeah yeah, yeah. A Lotta Love Songs is one I wrote with him.

Oh, my God. And there's a song on the new High Hawks record coming out in the fall called Somewhere South. Wrote with Aaron and a guy named Ben Chapman. Who's Ben? Ben's a young writer, lived with Aaron in Nashville. Has a lot of cuts on a lot of records. Has a good new record out.

A young Nashville cat is going to be blowing up. You ever write with Rob Snyder? Yeah, Rob Snyder. He's a bad motherfucker too. All these guys. New Jersey guy. Yeah. Channing Wilson.

Oh, God. And he put out a new record too. I love how all these songwriters are putting out records. Adam Hood. Adam Hood. Monster. Monster. And he put out a new record, too. I love how all these songwriters are putting out records. Adam Hood? Adam Hood. Monster. Monster. And he just put out a record.

Yes. Blackberry Smoke is the band on that, man. That's some strong stuff. Blackberry Smoke is the band on that? Yeah. Yeah. Damn, these guys are powerhouses. Yeah.

So, like, it must make you feel fucking young and energized that you get to create every day, even when you're off the road. Cause that must've been tough, you know, going home and like going to like, you're, I remember you in Oregon, you're in some fucking farm and then like,

you're just always in these fucking out, you know, now you're in the city kitty. Yeah. All the song is like, that must make you feel awesome. Like you said, you're writing the most songs you ever written.

How do you like pick the good ones? Two man, you know? Yeah. You you know the ones that rise at the top you kind of do a better demo of you know that's kind of what happens and you know you see you know i'm you know throwing some songs out there to people who are looking for songs i'm starting to get get messages from people hey man you got any songs i'm doing a record you know so cool. So I'm psyched to be doing it. And you're going solo like Tupac Shakur over here, fucking the Vince Herman band. What was that like? Well, man, it was fun after 33 years doing this for a living

to finally make a solo record. And meeting up with Dave Ferguson, Ferg, to produce it was a big thing. And he just called together all these A-list Nashville cats And meeting up with Dave Ferguson, Ferg, to produce it was a big thing. And he just called together all these A-list Nashville cats to make the record once I kind of figured out what songs to do. And, man, it just delivered. And Silas is on the record, too. And he hung with those A-list Nashville cats, man. He really won all their respect.

Why hasn't he moved to Nashville? He'd kill it out there. You know, he's into climbing rocks and doing things. They just bought a place in Boulder. He really won all their respect. Why hasn't he moved to Nashville? He'd kill it out there. He's into climbing rocks. They just bought a place in Boulder. They're settled in. That's dope. Nashville's such a trip, dude.

I'm in love with it. I'm in love with the songwriting. I'm in love with the culture. Steve Pultz, you introduced me to Steve Pultz. That guy's my fucking hero now. Another liberated mind I know You know He kind of had the same path

You did A little self-destruction In college In San Diego You know Shit on some stages Oh the rug burns man The rug burns were amazing

That's what I'm saying Can bands like The rug burns Leftover Salmon I guess I'm doing it. You know, just this rock and roll, just like free style. It's like, do you think in 20 years it's going to still be a thing? Or do you think it's just getting more and more?

I hope so. Anything else that makes you feel like that? No. It ain't going away. Okay. I get worried. I get worried that rock and roll is going to die. Well, I get worried that the pitch clock is going to really screw up baseball.

You know? Yeah. You know, last night the Giants had two on, and the dude gets called out for taking too long to bat on a 3-2 count. Yeah, that's fucked up. That ain't right. That ain't right. That ain't right at all.

So that's the same thing With rock and roll I can't take I can't take mushrooms On stage without getting Yelled at by every God damn concert promoter In the whole country I'm just trying to

Live the name out of The leftovers And the pulses Well you know There's all kind of ways To do it You know Yeah

You know I love Del McCurry. Yeah. You know, Del ain't going to drop F-bombs on stage like, you know, a certain guy does in his podcast or anything like that. You know? Yeah, there's all kind of ways to do this, you know?

Were you the one who told me when you sat, did you sit in with those guys and those guys, or someone said fuck or something? Yeah. McCurry freaked out. Like, you did not say, you know, he didn't say anything in front of everyone but he took them.

Yeah, there was a certain folk singer they were touring Europe with that dropped F-bombs on the first show and they cancelled the European tour. And this is serious, man, because Del told me, Vince, I built this career

and people knowing that when they come to my show, they're not going to be offended. They can bring their family, they can do whatever. And I've got too much invested in that to have somebody do that and do whatever. And I've got too much invested in that to have somebody do that and destroy that. I respect that. Yeah, we couldn't do that.

Oh, my God. It's great. Yeah, I mean, it matures you. And it shows you that you don't have to just... Like, that's what helped me, too. Like, I used to be all shtick. Now I just do one shtick, and I just rely on the songs. And it just takes someone to tell you,

you don't need to talk about pussy and talk about... You don't need to do that every 10 seconds. Play the songs. Music is what... You can get to that same spot of euphoric energy, I think what you're talking about, with everyone does it in a different way. Yeah.

And it's all legit. It's all legit. You know, it's expressions of joy, however you mine it out of yourself. Right. And it's being you. Yeah. That's who you are. Right.

That's okay. You know? Yeah. You know? It has implications of who your crowd's going to be and all that stuff. Good with that. I'm fine with that. You know?

I'm not going to be Justin Bieber. Too late, man. Too late. I'm not going to run for Congress. Andy Frasco eats a bag of mushrooms in Oklahoma. No, but you talk about that's me. That's totally me. What are you, Vince, in your eyes?

I'm that guy that stood on bar tabletops in Morgantown, West Virginia at 18 years old with, you know, my pants dropped to my knees singing raunchy rugby tunes at closing time. What was the raunchiest one? Oh, God. Do you, like, cringe, like, thinking about these songs now that it's 2023, or are they just part of the times? Yeah, this is all part of the times. I don't regret any of it. Songs all serve their purpose for the time,

which was having a good time of just unbelievably free expression. What was the wildest moment in your whole life? Wildest moment in my whole life? I can't, like craziest, like freakiest. Right now, thinking about it. Like at college or something, right? Or just like, was it free love? You know, no wild orgies to report or anything like that.

There was this time I went to a Grateful Dead show in Morgantown and went to a party out in the woods afterwards. And it's like four in the morning and I'm sitting on this picnic table and these two women in white robes come over to me and start tickling me. They come, we're the joy division. We're the joy division. And I'm hanging out and laid back on the table

laughing and they go... Oh my God, drop the acid on you? Yeah, it does to me. When'd you get into that? High school. Eric Clapton. Wow. Civic Arena.

Woo! So go back. They drop ass. So yeah. So fast forward from four in the morning until ten in the morning when I was hitchhiking back into town,

covered head to toe in fluorescent paint and mud and got dropped off in front of the student union there and just in time to go got dropped off in front of the student union there and just in time to go take my test

in social change in Appalachia. You couldn't have time to change it. And I decided nah, I'm not going to go take that test. I'm going to take that tomorrow. And so I walked into the student union and I saw a slide that said, want a job out west?

Interviews today at 10 o'clock I went to a job interview Covered head to toe In fluorescent paint and mud No fucking way Yeah, you know And, you know Nobody in the room

Acknowledged that I looked Any different than anybody else They were just like afraid To even address This elephant in the room And you're just sitting there in a sterile, just like waiting room. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kids with suits and shit. Yeah, yeah, and resumes. And, you know, just leading this discussion. And, you know, half hour later, it was clear that I was the best qualified for the job of selling books out west. Did you get the job? No, I didn't.

I didn't follow up. So maybe life is just all about just saying yes. Yeah. And forgetting to be embarrassed about who you are.

Even if you're covered in head and toe mud and paint. Were you still tripping dick or like? Oh yeah, absolutely. And you were, so you had the balls to walk in there, look at this job. I forget.

Fuck it. Cause you've always been confident. There was a, a, a, a board of the university dinner going on with all the

big to-dos and all that stuff. And I took a band of eight bluegrass players and busted in one door and led a parade through the thing and out through the other. It was like the college president and the board of regents. Were they cool about it or were they strange?

It was Morgantown, man. I don't know much about Morgantown. Was it a hippie town? Oh, absolutely. Like 25,000 students in a town with 10,000 other people. Wow. It was total domination. Fires in the streets.

Couch burning came in a little later. What about, like, any protests? Yeah, man. In fact, I was studying education and was doing a classroom observation at the University Hill School and was in, I was way behind, man. I wasn't getting my hours in.

It was early in the morning. I just wasn't making it. And I put up a sign for a protest march between the student union and the county courthouse for an anti-nuclear thing, physicians for social responsibility and all that kind of stuff. And I put this flyer up on a board

and then went into the classroom to do my thing. And over the PA comes, Well, Vince Herman, please report to the principal's office. And so I got up out of the class and the teacher, the principal, said, You know, one of the students reported that he saw you putting up this sign for this protest thing. that he saw you putting up this sign for this protest thing. And two days ago, there were members of the Communist Party

up here on the hill passing out pamphlets and the students ran them off the hill and burnt their flyers and threatened to beat them up. So the student came in and said, hey, I saw this guy putting this sign up. You need any help removing him from the school? So he's like, you know,

well, for your safety, I'm going to have to ask you to leave and you're not going to be able to come back and do the school. So he's like, well, for your safety, I'm going to have to ask you to leave and you're not going to be able to come back and do the thing. So I had a meeting with the head of the Department of Education at the university about endangering the program between the school and all that kind of stuff.

And he said, well, you're not going to be able to finish the thing. Why don't you write me a paper about what you learned through this? And I wrote this amazing, I thought, pretty amazing indictment of the school system. What did you write? The fact that the guy whose class

I was in, I was just about to raise my hand and object to something he was saying. He was talking about physicians for social responsibility coming out against nuclear war and saying that this is bullshit. He was one of those guys and you know and and so yeah i talked about you know the communist party folks being kicked off the hill you know they're like you know and and education bb about a discussion of ideas and and all these things and and and and yeah so anyways

i wrote this paper and and i never would have had the hours completed So I aced the paper Aced the course And really came out What did your teacher say after they read that? Aced me It's like, alright, this motherfucker knows what he's doing Yeah, and what really

Made me And a big part of the paper Was my experience with the course That I had been instructed right and uh no discussion of social issues no no anything like they were training teachers without a conscience of the larger picture which education needed right to do right which may perhaps we're seeing the results of not doing now. Now, right? Why do you think that is? Because we can't fight back through argument.

It's just their way or the highway. Yeah, that's becoming more and more. I think Newt Gingrich started that with the Deal for America where it was the first time that it was like, okay, team, we're side A. Let's not do anything that side B wants to do. Put the line in the sand. Yeah, yeah.

Just for our good. For the good of our brand. Right. You know, rather than for the good of the country and for the good of humanity. How do you think we got to where we are now when you guys were fighting for this? It feels like everyone was fighting for that 30 years

ago. How did we all of a sudden forget? I went to the No Nukes concert in Central Park in 1980. 81 I think. A million people marching through the streets.

It was amazing. I saw Carly Simon in a hot dog uniform. Hot dog sitting in a photo shoot that Right. It was amazing. Yeah. I saw Carly Simon in a hot dog uniform. Hot dogs. Did a photo shoot that day. It was great. What's your most proud song that you felt like you really took that formula where it's like really like it's a feel-good song. It makes people happy, but also it's thought-provoking.

I got to do Appalachian Soul on the Mountain Stage radio show, which is a West Virginia radio show, and it was sponsored by a big coal and energy concern. And I got to hear my song being done, Appalachian Soul, and then hear the ad for the

coal company afterwards. And know that I got the chance to do this thing about mountaintop removal and to see the song go to work right away. That was... Felt good? Yeah, yeah. Because you were fighting for that for a long time, weren't you?

Yeah, man. I love West Virginia and mountaintop removal was pretty much stopped, but basically because of the economics of it and fracking and natural gas. Fucking A. stuff, but basically because of the economics of it and fracking and natural gas. But yeah, I'd like to think that Blair Mountain, a place I also wrote a tune about where coal miners were bombed in the 30s.

Actual bombs dropped on this striking coal miners heading towards Charleston. And they were bombed in the hills there at this place called Blair Mountain. And that was scheduled to bombed in the hills there at this place called Blair Mountain and that was scheduled to be mountaintop removed and had this

big uproar about it and got it put on the National Register of Historic Places. It should be a monument to American labor. Yeah. It was the foundations

of the unions you know, growing at that battle. It really swayed public opinion in favor of the unions. So like when you're fighting for that, what's the other side of that?

Do people lose their jobs? Like those towns? I'm not thinking about that, but I think about paper mills. A lot of paper mills are going away and some of those get 15,000 jobs. Actually, what caused me to write that song, Appalachian Soul,

I had a couple days off on a solo tour and I went through Harlan, Kentucky. I always wanted to go to Harlan, so I went there. What's Harlan? Harlan is a coal mining town deep in Kentucky that's pretty legendary. And they just based their city just on coal mining.

Yeah. The whole town is, the economy is coal mining. Yeah, yeah. Holy shit. So I wanted to go check it out and on my way into town

I saw this high school with like a ton of cop cars at it and like just overflowing things. I'm like, what's going on there? Right.

I went in and just randomly ran into a meeting of of mine people, environmentalists, and regulators having a public comment period

on mountaintop removal regulations in West Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee. Shut up. You just randomly walked in? Just randomly ran into it. And so I'm sitting in the audience and there's guys with hard hats, there's guys the audience, and there's guys with hard hats, there's guys with suits, and there's guys with backpacks.

All three sides, you know? What? Kind of in there. And I'm listening to these guys testifying about if they lose their job doing mountaintop removal, then, you know, their kids probably aren't going to be able to work in there. But the fact of the matter is if you do this mountaintop removal, then their kids probably aren't going to be able to work in there. But the fact of the matter is, if you do this mountaintop removal, your kids and your grandkids are going to be living in a destructed area that's not going to have tourism, that's not

going to have all those things which these beautiful, beautiful places on the East Coast can give to that big East Coast crowd of people. And you see, like in West Virginia now, the trails and all these things that are drawing in a ton of tourists if it's not totally trashed from mountaintop removal. And so you see these guys saying,

I want jobs so my kids can stay here and your job is going to make it so your kid can't stay there. So they're not really... They're making the argument saying, it's for the future. But really, it's just for their fucking greedy-ass money they want to make now.

Because they're not thinking about the future because it's going to... It's for a way for them to make a living now. Right. It's not necessarily their greedy-ass, the workers. Oh, I thought you were talking about... Now, the mining, the suits... That's what I thought you were talking about.

The suits, that's another... Now, this is like, you know, the suits... That's what I thought you were talking about. Now, this is like a guy in a hard hat. My grandfather was a union miner. So, they're worried about the economy. Yeah, they're worried about keeping their jobs and feeding their family. Yeah, but the suits are the guys

that are... So, what were the suits saying? The suits are saying the same thing that the guys with the hard hats are saying because they're using them. Then what about the hippies with the backpacks? They're saying, are you kidding? You're going to destroy this place? And what's going to happen then?

The rivers, the waters, and you have these big slurry piles sitting up on top of mountains ready to just cave in these dams and flood valleys and schools and you know i mean you know yeah destroy the land yeah yeah so you got out of that meeting randomly it's fucking amazing yeah i think do you ever believe in like serendipity like you're oh yeah you're born to write that song it happens all the time maybe you know yeah rockstar parking and stuff like that All the time Yeah I fucking love it

I just end up where I need to be You know As we all do Yeah Oh my god Might not recognize it at the time You know But we all go

Where we need to go When did you When When did you Thought Think Sorry Your weed is very strong

I'm like a Fresh from California man Yeah You know I smoke that low tolerance shit Vinny come on you're trying to kill me here you know fuck I lost my train of thought I've never seen taller ants than you have here oh man I lost my train of thought

but I was thinking about is thought a train does thought come from within or does it come at you like a wind? Yeah, because consciousness may exist separately from what our brain perceives it to be. Let me think about that.

Consciousness may be external. Yes. Do you believe that you don't write the songs that just comes to you? Like a vessel? Sometimes, yeah. Not often enough, but... What about now when you're just practicing

all... I mean, you're working on your craft every single day. You're writing three songs a day, whatever you're doing. Whatever you're doing. I don't know what the fuck you're up to, but I love it. But like, do you know when the vessel is open even when you've written like... You're writing like three or two songs a day or like four songs a week, you know? Do you know when the vessel is open, even when you're writing three or two songs a day

or four songs a week? Do you know that special moment? Like, oh shit, I'm opened up. This is going to be a good one. No. You know, there are times, I guess, when you're a little more cinched up and not as open to the possibilities

and weird little changes or things. Sometimes you're more open to that than others. But I think for the most part, it's like shooting basketball. Yeah, you're going to play. Sometimes you have a good game. Sometimes you don't. But you're still doing the same stuff. Right.

Yeah, it's kind of like that. What was the... And sometimes, man, you get to write with some really good people, and it's like the Lakers and the Warriors back and forth, man, until they end. They're like, are we going to get this? Yes! Do you ever have, like, a couple years of writing block?

Yeah, 30 of them. Yeah? Do you ever Do you ever have like a Couple years of writing block? Yeah 30 of them Yeah? What was the worst one? I was writing like One or two songs a year For 30 years of Leftover Salmon I

Really? I wasn't a songwriter really Until I Moved to Nashville? Pretty much I mean I got all kind of Unfinished songs But I never finished songs

Wow what do you think? It was always You know I'd I'd write something for unfinished songs But I never finished songs What do you think? It was always You know I'd write something for the record And that's about it And I found more songs than I wrote Did you just like not want to write with your boys? It wasn't something I did You know

And like the thought of co-writing Never really came to me. I thought, you know, that songs were something, you know, that kind of landed and you got what you got and you couldn't write a specific thing, you know, like we did that thing writing for you, like the idea of writing for someone, I'd never done that. Yeah.

You know, like, you know, I just thought that, you know, songs just rained down, whatever Bob Dylan let drip down below his stuff. Then you realize, oh fuck, I got to practice that. I got to work on this. Who was the first guy? Was it the Davidson brothers who said, hey Vinny, why don't you write more?

Yeah, the Davidson brothers had me come down and do this day where we had wrote seven songs in a day. My first day of co-writing in Nashville. What do you think, was it, were they all different ideas or was it all kind of like the same song? No, all different ideas, man.

What do you think woke you up? Being put in that environment. Yeah, yeah. The same thing that happens to all of humanity. You give a guy who's in a shitty environment a great environment to be in they're going to be a better person right

you see that with athletes all the time who are just like kicked out of their house and they had a family love them and nourish them Jimmy Butler was like that and became a fucking amazing athlete so wow it's that easy of changing It was like that and came a fucking amazing athlete.

So, wow. So it's that easy of changing your environment. Why do we feel like we're stuck? If it's just easy to change your environment, why are we afraid? Access. Access. Not everybody can land in Main Street and tell you're right all of a sudden. Are you right? You know?

Couldn't land in Main Street and tell you right all of a sudden. You're right. You know? I feel really lucky to have had access to all that I've had over the years. You know? I don't have any money. But, man, I got some experience under my belt. And I've been able to make a living at it.

You know? Which is. What about love? For me. Oh, man. Absolutely. I really believe in marriage. I think everybody should have at least two or three.

Yeah. Oh, man. No, man. Love's great, man. Have you ever been heartbroken? No, yeah. What was the worst one? Well, there's this one where a woman

became someone else before my very eyes. And I couldn't relate to that new person. And, man, that was a tough one. Yeah. I feel you there. But, yeah, man, I'm just really lucky to have had some great companions through life in all kind of different eras. I think everybody should have several lives. They leave in this one.

Do you ever regret leaving any of them? I regret that my family wasn't more cohesive. And certainly the traveling and all that stuff has kept me away from my kids for way too long. But it's my passion, and modeling, following your passion is, I think, something I believe in. So I hope that that makes up for it. Yeah.

Did they resent you when you were a kid, when they were kids? I don't think resent, but, you know, there's still issues that they're left with from not having me around. Yeah, like why is the dream, everyone, you know, the American dream, follow your dream, follow your dream, you follow your dream, it just fucks up everything else in our lives. You know?

It leaves challenges along the way. And it's certainly like Pete Sears, I was hanging with last night in San Francisco, playing the Jefferson Airplane, Hot Tuna. He's with the David Nelson Band now. I'd been on the road with him before. And every night at 7 o'clock, called his kids and his wife. Every night, that's what happened at 7 o'clock.

I can't say I ever did that. I didn't have the quarters for the phone booth sometimes. Yeah. I mean, you're torn at a different time too. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. That's pretty wild, man.

That's why I think about if I'm just going to be alone my whole life because I love my career so much. I let go of a good girl because I love my career so much. It's like, fuck. Is this just going to be the path? Like you said, there are several lives to lead in life. And during this thing, you've built this thing that's growing and becoming more beautiful all the time

and you're doing this thing and eventually you'll be able to take more time. But when you start a band, you got to go at it. There's not really any other choice if you're really going to do it and be a contender. Any girls in your life, like when you were younger, you wish you stayed with but you got on that van to the next town oh man

I just wrote a song about that tell me what was it give me the story oh when I was I think about that all the god damn time I think I was like 22 years old and had this sweetheart after my first divorce and this girl was just great.

And she eventually broke it off after about a year and told me recently that she didn't want to end it, but she knew what I had to do was to go on the road and do all that stuff she realized that she didn't want to be the woman left at home she told me that a couple years ago and it's like god damn it oh god damn it yeah that's the worst feeling in the world yeah and and she's such a sweetheart. So what's the song called? Sweet Southern Symphony. God damn it. That's what they don't tell you about rock and roll.

How many goodbyes you have to do. Oh, man, no doubt. That's the hardest part about rock and roll, I think, is saying goodbye so many times. Man, when Silas was born, our Volkswagen van broke down two days before he was born. Yeah. And I left about eight days after,

walking with my guitar case and my suitcase to hitchhike down the hill from Netherland down to Boulder to jump on the school bus. kimball was left with no car you know in netherland and you know that was the hardest goodbye ever man walking down the alley with my suitcase and i just felt like i was charlie chaplin or something with a stick. How old were you? I was, let me see, that was 1994. Did you cry? I was 32. 32.

How old was Silas? About seven or eight days. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's tough. Yeah. It's tough. And then, you see that, Vince? It Oh, my God. Yeah. It's tough. Yeah. It's tough.

And then you see that, Vince? It's me and you. And look at bottom. The bottom right there. I'll show you. Bottom. Oh, yeah. I think about you every time.

You're my guy. You really are my guy. You inspire me, man. So, I mean, that through, you know, how long has been your career now? 30 years? 33 years with Salmon, and I jumped off the cliff two years before that and just said I was going to be a musician. Yeah, so 34 years?

Yeah. So 34 years. Got another, what, 35, 40 more years to go. What did you learn in your middle point of your career? This is fun. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, yeah.

Do you think, like, you could ever be a banker? Yeah, you know, I think of it often. You know, there are times like you know when salmon took its hiatus uh-huh and i really thought about you know so what skills have i developed yeah in in this process that would be applicable in in the normal world you know i figured i'd make a great CEO. Oh, yeah. Because of my liberal arts education and my anthropology background and the understanding of human

systems. Why'd you guys go on a hiatus? Mark Vann had passed and it was really, really hard to carry on without him. And I think our mental health just required that. Just burnt out too?

To mourn him properly and burn out. But Mark really insisted that we keep playing. So we did. How did he die? Cancer. Cancer. Yep. How old was he?

Mid-30s. Damn, really? Yeah. What kind of cancer? mid-30s. Damn, really? Yeah. What kind of cancer? Intestinal. Oh. What was he like?

Did you feel like he was already getting stomach aches? Or what was going on? How did he know? Yeah, well, you know, he had a heart issue first. He got a pacemaker put in. Damn. That was a big thing you know we were recording the nashville sessions he was just pouring buckets of sweat because his heart was messed up and he thought it was just because he was playing with earl scruggs man but yeah he uh he got that fixed

and then it wasn't too many years later that the cancer came. What about, damn, was that your best friend? He was certainly one of them. Yeah. Certainly one of them. And, you know, really, really made the band happen. Yeah. You know, he was an organized guy. What did he teach you about music?

Put in the time. Yeah. Figure it out. Take it seriously. And then have a lot of fun he's a party guy? he's a party animal? absolutely

so who was it? was Drew a party animal? not as much it was you and him we all got a lot done you guys were wrecking hell weren't you? it was like the first big year Sam and you're like holy shit this is tight this is the wrecking hell I want to have

Probably when we got on the Horde tour You know Turned around and Neil Young Playing harmonica In your ear on stage Like what You ever do blow with Neil Young No

It'd be fucking awesome It's wild Vinny what about Little Feet Yeah. You ever do blow with Neil? No. He'd be fucking awesome. It's wild. Vinny, what about Little Feet? How important is Little Feet to you? Massive, man. Massive. Little George is, man, just a model of a player and writer. The experience of getting to know those cats has just been amazing.

Yeah, aren't you guys going on tour? Yeah, we're going on tour this summer. Sick. And having Bill Payne in the band was just the biggest thrill ever. Just the encyclopedic knowledge and his repertoire musically is just always surprising and incredibly complex. And really, did you ever meet Lowell?

I never did. Fuck. He's like the amazing. What happened to him? How'd he die? Um, the night of partying that didn't go so well. Yeah.

You know, you know, a lot of people that's happened to, uh, yeah. A few. Does that scare you? Um, yeah, I've, I've, I've, I've taken. Does that scare you? Yeah.

I've taken that lesson. Have you? Yeah. Did you ever do like musical theater or drama? Yeah, I did a play my senior year.

What? Dark of the Moon where I was a guitar player, narrator, wandering kind of guy. And I also did one in college. A thing called Slate Fall, which is a coal mining. So you love theater. You've always loved all that stuff.

Yeah, I started off as a theater student in my first year in Morgantown. Oh, and the hippies. Oh, my God. It's all making sense. So my first day of acting class, there's like 15 people in the room, and the teacher's just sitting there, and he looks like Jack Nicholson with the bowling cap. He sits there and is just looking at us for a while

and then says, all right, A and B. Everybody say A, B, A, B. All right, A, stand up here. And stood up there for 45 minutes. B. Everybody said A, B, A, B. He goes, alright, A, stand up here. And stood up there for 45 minutes. And then he said, alright, B's. Stood up there. They stood

up there for 45 minutes. Nobody said anything or anything. Everybody just went through the nervous shit they do. Some people are like, what is this? What is this? Stupid. And he just said, the nervous shit they do. Some people are like, what is this? This is stupid. Anisha said to him.

Oh my God. At the end of that 45 minutes, he said, all right, man. I've reached the life with Woodpecker. See you Wednesday. What was he saying? Oh my God. It was a class on improv. Unbelievable. He just sized us all up. what am i working with her

everything i know really what do you like what was the thing that's like making the mind blank okay and not you know doing these things that that led you to just spew without the filter on you know you know doing writing things where you're concentrating on the tip of the pencil rather than what you're writing and see what comes up. That's the shit I'm talking about. Playing scenes behind a chalkboard, a mobile chalkboard where you could just have this little

space below it. Play the scene with your feet. And the thing is the ultimate lesson is that you just do what you do. You know? And the thing is, is the ultimate lesson, you know, is that you just do what you do. Yeah.

You don't think about your feet. Right. You know? It's like, and there were, honestly, there were three times

in the year I studied acting and improv where I was totally free and going with it. Right. You know? And I try to hit that when I improvise lyrically at shows and stuff.

And, you know, I used to do a lot more than I do now. Do you do that with life? Yeah. Trusting in what's going to happen. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I'm driving all the way to the front of this line here because I know I've got a parking spot up there.

Yeah. And I do. It's fucking... That's Colonel Bruce Hampton. Yeah. It's intention. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Yeah, you know, if you just open yourself to it, you know... Did you, when you were going through your turmoil with your kids, did you always knew it was going to work out when you get older? I hope it does. I think it is. Slowly. Finally. When you're going through your turmoil with your kids, did you always knew it was going to work out when you get older? I hope it does. I think it is. Slowly. Finally.

Yeah. You know. I mean. It's pretty well. We're all trying to figure out who we are. Yeah. You think we'll ever will? When we go back to that big bright light that we came from, I guess.

Yeah. You'll see that. Some folks, you know, seem like they're already there. I was hanging with my friend John Thomas in Durango, who I think is the only self-realized person I know on earth. He studied with like, he went to film school with John Waters and David Lynch, you know. Jesus Christ,

David Lynch? Yeah, in San Francisco film school, you know. And then he got a guru in India. He, you know,

did that path and, you know, he's an artist, you know, self-ta and, you know, he's, he's an artist, you know, self-taught artist, he was a teacher and he decided he was going to build this place. He never built anything before. He just built it, you know, like, yeah, I could do that. He just absolutely, there was nothing that, that,

that he could think of doing that he would say, I can't do that. Right. And, you know, like, you know, we were just talking about, yeah, we should get together and write sometime. And five minutes later, we were halfway through the first verse. Yeah, yeah. No, we're doing it now. Yeah, yeah. Do it now.

That's how Pult is too. Yeah. He doesn't even keep food in his refrigerator. If I'm hungry, I'll go get some. Yeah. That's how I am. Yeah. I feel like that's how I live life, too.

I never thought I'd have a talk show. I never thought I'd make an Airbnb. I never thought I'd manage a band. I mean, do you think everyone has that in them, or is there only certain people who could do that? I think we all have the potential. Like you said, how do you live without fear? How do you just have faith in your ability

to make the most of things just by being yourself without editing yourself or trying to be someone else or anything or to try to play like someone else or sing like someone else? or anything or to try to play like someone else or sing like someone else. You know, like, knowing what you do is enough. Yeah. Or be okay with not knowing the improv.

Yeah. Yeah, because what comes out is always amazing. Yeah. You know, if he can really get out, then that begs that question we asked earlier, is consciousness external or internal? Yeah. You know, when you get into that free,

you know, I wonder if it might be external. Yeah, because what is freedom? Externally, you're free. You're not free inside something. Yeah. When you first met me, you're free You're not free inside something Yeah When you first met me You told me you were going to set me free Yeah

I think so far It's going okay It's going that direction I mean, look at you You're fucking writing 10,000 songs in two years I got a goal of 100 songs this year 100 songs, Vinny? Yeah.

I'm about 30 in. It's only April? Yeah. I'm a little behind. You guys have been working. Yeah. Sam has been out on the road. We've been working like mad.

Yeah. You making money? You good? I'm doing all right. Yeah? You got to get that mailbox money. Yeah. I feel bad.

I've... Andy? Yeah? I've let the government down. Oh. I haven't paid my taxes in... Well... How many years?

Well, not last year. Not this year. Fuck the government. Go get them, Vinny. You don't need that. Damn. I got nervous. I believe in government.

I believe in the things. I thought you were going to be like. I believe in a lot of the things they're doing. I thought you were going to Lauren Hill me. I haven't paid the government in like 17 years. This is my last question and then we'll have a part two and probably later on in our lives.

Do I need all these things? We're free people. We're energizers. Do I need all this shit? There's a chance. There's a chance you do. Thinking of my friends in Jamaica, you know, who I went to see them at their place,

and it was basically just, you know, enough bunks for them and their kids to sleep inside, and they lived outside. You know? They're happy. You can't quite do that here.

No, no. You know? No. In America, you said. You can't quite do that here. In America, you said. My friend Job Bim, we stayed at his place and just ate from his yard for like three days. Silas was leaving there and said, man, I think I know what it means to be human now.

It's not that hard. We asked Job Bim, he was showing us his gardens. He was like, how often do you water? Water? Me no water. You know? Water.

Water. And he had all these different vegetables. Oh, yeah, man. Bread, fruit, and like, yeah, like all this stuff. So that's what I'm asking, like why are we overthinking all this shit? Well, you heard Todd Snyder's

song In the Beginning? No. It's great, man. You know, In the Beginning, he talks about cavemen and you know, they got this place, you know, and one day this cave guy found this really cool thing and he took that back and put it in his place and the next day he finds this other cool thing he has in this place

and this guy comes along and says you know uh um you got these really i you know i've got these really cool things you know and uh so the other cave guys are like, man, let's kill them and take those really cool things, you know. And they're about to come kill him. And he says, no, no, no. See, God chose to give these to me, man. And if you just listen to what I say, God may give these things to you. But first, why don't you just clean up around here a little bit for me here.

You know? And ain't it a bitch that all these years later, we're still using religion to keep the poor from killing the rich. Unbelievable. You know? And that's Herman Frasco, 2024, our political party. We will kill religion.

Hit the music, Chris. Yeah, you know, I don't know how that answers the question before. I think it does. I think that's the reason why we're musicians. And I think that's a full circle

of how we started this conversation. Yeah. We didn't want that to rule our life. We want love. Yeah. And what music

brings to our souls and the people around us. It ain't the things, it's the people. Amen. There you go. I'm thankful to have you in my life, Vince Herman.

Yeah, buddy. I love you. You for being a friend. Oh, yeah. Now we're back again. We started from the bottom, now we're here, girl. Oh, yeah. Vince Herman, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much, Vince.

You got a new record. You're going on tour with Little Feet You got a bunch of shit going on A little bit of doing a thing with Railroad Earth And Yonder Mountain Oh my God, I forgot about that That tour going on, you know We've got some Vince Herman band shows

Coming up here in Colorado this weekend And doing it all, man Playing festivals with the Vince band And high hawking And salmon And writing And life is good, brother Don't burn out on me man playing festivals with the vince band and and high hawking and and salmon and writing and it's life is good brother don't burn out on me i need you i need you in my life okay never will thank you thanks vince peace brother love you you tuned in to the world's health podcast with andy fresco

thank you for listening to this episode. Produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angelo and Chris Lawrence. We need you to help us save the world and spread the word. Please subscribe, rate the show, give us those crazy stars, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you're picking this shit up. Follow us on Instagram at World Saving Podcast

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