Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 223: Ken Jennings (Host of Jeopardy!)

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

This week we bring you your most sought after answers followed by all the big questions. Such as... Answer: YOUR MOTHER. Question: Who is most stoked for this week's interview?! That's right. This week on the Interview Hour, we welcome one of the most learned people we've ever met: professional smarty-pants and current host of Jeopardy!, Ken Jennings!! Listen in as Andy & Nick discover just how real and sharp-witted Ken is as you ask yourself: who else could successfully succeed the legendary Alex Trebek as host? Also: are there Jeopardy groupies?? Shawn & Beats offer insight as to proper nutitional intake. Keep tabs on all things Kenneth Wayne Jennings III at ken-jennings.com Watch this episode streaming now!! Psyched to partner up with our buddies at Volume.com! Check out their roster of upcoming live events and on-demand shows to enrich that sweet life of yours. Call, leave a message, and tell us how you really feel: [phone]  Check out our new single, You Do You streaming on Spotify and Apple Music now! And while you're at it, give a big middle finger to the bigots in your life Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out our good friends that help us unwind and sleep easy while on the road and at home: dialedingummies.com Produced by Andy Frasco, Joe Angelhow, & Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Shawn Eckels Andee 'Beats' Avila

Now, a message from the UN. All right! Oh, yeah, I like dessert, but I know what's better. I've got the tools that can make you wetter. Woo! Legs are spread, I can almost taste that. It doesn't matter if there's too many

hairs. Maybe just pull down those underwears. Licking push. Licking push. Oh. We're licking pushing Lick and push, lick and push We're lick and push now This is the World's Saved Podcast, let's do it! It's impacto like our friendship

Yep And we're back Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast I'm Andy Frasco How's your heads? How's your minds? Are you living the way you want to live? Are you you doing you?

You like that? Yeah News to go loud We do you Come on The other day The other day Julie goes She was talking about my book or whatever

Or something She goes, can you self-promote stuff on the podcast? She asked if I was allowed to. I was like, no, I'm not, actually. It's part of my contract. I've been working on that. No, it's fine.

Buy Nick's book. Promote your own shit, because you've got more going on. Please buy Nick's book. You have a lot more overhead to cover than I do. Fuck. So much overhead. I have designed my career perfectly to where my profit margins are massive. Yeah. Everything I do, it's just a huge profit.

I keep almost all the dollars. Then I think about bigger bands who have so much other shit, like tour buses and lights. Like an accounting tour accountant? A tour accountant. But those guys, actually, that's probably the one guy on the fucking tour that pays for himself. Schwartz was a tour accountant. That makes sense. For Ozzy Osbourne.

I bet he was amazing at it. But those guys actually, probably like the money they save you pays for their salary and more. So it's like. If they're good. How you doing, Nick? I'm doing fine. Big week tonight. Ken Jennings.

Dude, I've been telling people. The host of fucking Jeopardy. Everyone's stoked. Even my mom's stoked for this interview. That's what I'm saying. I've been telling people. The host of fucking Jeopardy. Everyone's stoked. Even my mom's stoked for this interview. That's what I'm saying. I've been telling people about that he's coming on and they're like, it's the first time I've told them. They're like, whoa.

Because I've told them we had Tony Hawk or some famous people, but when it's a comedian or an athlete, this guy works for Disney. There's something harder to get about him. He's a network star. And he was on the World's Saved Podcast. We're asking about groupies and everything. He talked. Let's go. He's a network star. And he was on the World Saving Podcast. We're asking about groupies and everything.

He talked. Let's go. He was a great interviewer. We are getting good at our job, bud. He's honestly a better interviewer than a lot of musicians we've had on.

It's like, why is this guy more interesting than a person that travels the world doing drugs? Yeah, I've been interviewed. He is smart as shit, though.

That's why. Yeah. And he's Mormon. I thought he wouldn't talk And he talked No but I think You know there's levels to this shit You know what I mean

There's levels to every religion There's the Hasidic Jews And then there's the people like you Who are like Yeah I'm Jewish Once you get your bar mitzvah check You're not Jewish anymore You know what I mean

I And by the way I grew up in the Catholic church There's the exact same thing Existing now What like a Kinsiara No that's like just I think just like in Latin countries. That's more of a Hispanic, Latino thing.

But those are, they're all. Same type of thing. But they're Catholic. But that's when you turn 15. It's like sort of like bar mitzvah. Right. But in the Catholic church, they have confirmation. Yeah.

But they put the oils on you and you're finally fully Catholic. That's when you're like 12 or 13, I think. See, in my campaign, my campaign of running for mayor of Indianapolis, I will let you be whoever you want. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if you're Catholic. If you want to be a Jew that lives in Indiana,

fuck yeah, I'm here for it. We have a JCC. Yeah. We're going to build three more. That's where I don't think there's enough to support. Nope. I'm bringing the Jews to Indiana. It's where I don't think there's enough to supply. Nope. I'm bringing the Jews to Indiana. It's where all the great basketball players go. It's a migration like Moses across the desert.

That's good. That's part of my campaign. I'm going to split the Mississippi River when we get to it. We're coming. Why are they all coming from LA? They should be coming from New York. They're going to realize that. No, I want the LA Jews actually.

Denver and Chicago are way too fucking expensive. We're going to go to Indianapolis in 10 years. India, I might get there right before it pops off. I've been heated about this. The mayor thing? Yes. Because I am baffled. Dude, it's purely a political move.

I am baffled that you wouldn't have me as your co-star. It's just a play. I need to get a minority. I can't just be the two white guys at the top. And Jewish, that's not going to play as good. I need a black woman. Okay.

It's only about race. It literally has nothing to do with your quality. I mean, you'd be great. Also, you might be too famous by then. I've been thinking about this. I know you're going to like this. This is a great reason. I was thinking you might not have time

because you're going to be way too famous and successful by then. I respect that. Got it. Got him. I know you're going to like this. This is a great reason. I was thinking you might not have time because you're going to be way too famous and successful by then. I respect that. Got it. Got him. I respect that. But you are going to play my inauguration. Fine. I'm slowly becoming the idea that I will be your Bruce Springsteen. Once I said you're going to be too famous and successful, all of a sudden, things started to click,

didn't they? You are, though. Ten years from now, who knows how famous you're going to be. Or maybe I'll just lose my career and become crazy. Yeah, how famous you're going to be. Zero to 100. What if I become like Jerry Busey? Gary Busey.

Gary Busey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that'd be awesome. He rules. He does rule. Anyone who doesn't think that guy rules, get out of my life. That guy's awesome. I like crazy people if it's fun.

Well, you know, I was thinking about that. And I'm going to actually... Because I'm still going to run. That's fine. I'm going to run against you. And my assistant mayor is going to be... Deputy mayor. You don't even have the terminology right.

I'm going to have an Indian lady. Okay. You don't even know who it is yet? No, I haven't found her yet. I already have someone that's a huge person in the education world of Indianapolis. It's gotten many underprivileged youth into Harvard, Yale. Okay, cool. I mean, she's a Hall of Famer.

You know, have you heard of Butler University basketball? Yeah, she's a Hall of Famer there. Okay, cool. Just got inducted. Cool, great. Yeah. That doesn't scare me. Leading rebounder all time in Butler University.

That's a Indianapolis institution right there. No, I'm going. Guess what? She's also six feet tall. Oh. Do you think that scares me too? Yes, because I know tall women intimidate you. Yeah, they do actually.

I do love a tall woman though. Shout out to tall women. They do scare you. I didn't say you don't like them. I said they intimidate you. They do intimidate me. Do you like to be intimidated a little bit? I do. Yeah, yeah, though. Shout out to tall women, but they do scare you. I didn't say you don't like them. I said they intimidate you. They do intimidate me. You like to be intimidated a little bit. I do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always think about that. A couple girls I was running around with when I was in my 20s were... A couple girls I was running around with. You sound like you're at the gas station in Topeka, Kansas. I used to run around. Yeah, back in my day, I used to run around with these tall women. They used to play basketball at Cal Poly.

They were Cal Polyauly basketball players One was a shooting guard One girl, Holly, she was amazing I fucked that up I think you fucked up a lot of those things That's what you do in your 20s I guess I like dating two, three girls at the same time

That was fun I can't date two people in the same town I've done it I just told you about it like 30 seconds ago. Well, I wasn't really dating. God damn it. I have too much shit on my fucking head today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Break that out.

What else you got going on? Besides... Oh, just promoting this fucking tour that we're about to go on. Promoting... Promoting's a lot of work, but the more you do it it does work. I don't like having to promote five things at once. It's not tight. It's not fun. It's not... It's harder. It's fucking hard

and it's like you feel obnoxious because you keep on promoting all these different things. I know, but I don't think people actually care. Really? Yeah, maybe I shouldn't feel like I'm being obnoxious. My thing with that is the only people you're going to bother with that are people who probably weren't going to go anyway. Yeah.

Fuck them. Yeah, you're right. I should be more proud about promoting all this stuff because I really am. All this stuff is like I'm really proud of all this stuff. The new single, You Do You. The other single, Iowa Moon. The fucking tour.

The band's killing it. The podcast is killing it. I mean, I just feel like I'm a promotion wh band's killing it, the podcast is killing it. I mean, I should be... I just feel like I'm a promotion whore sometimes. Yeah, it's part of it. I don't know. I don't have any advice there. I don't think it's too much. I think you have to do it. The music industry is fucked up.

When you promote stuff, it doesn't make it look like you care more, too. I do. Yeah, exactly. I feel like I don't want to... I feel like I'm boasting. It's the biggest issue, I think, with the sort of jazz kind of guys They don't, they're scared to promote themselves It's like sort of weird in that scene You know what I mean

It's almost like you're like sort of I don't know, you know the vibe Like the sort of artsy people that don't really promote themselves Because they think it's sort of like embarrassing Speaking of that, dialed in gummies You want to hear fucking money worth spent dialed in gummies I eat dialed in gummies I actually use them to shave my pubes.

Yeah, I eat them. You just take a dialed in. I take the tin and I go. The plastic because it's plastic now. It's still sharp. Anyway, dialed in gummies. The best gummies on earth. And I'm not saying that because they give me money,

but I kind of am, but I'm not because they are good. They're great. They're actually great, and they taste better than any other gummy. That's the hardest thing for me is I can't stop eating them. I forget there's drugs inside of them. Yeah, see, I did that once. I love delicious candies. Yeah, you love candy.

Candy's good for you. I think about that. I think about that a lot. There's one guy who did that little thing you do, like, yum, yum, little sweet treats. Oh, yeah, you sent me that. Little sweet treats are good for your soul. Yeah, they are. It's kind of my booze. They give me acid reflux. I don't drink at home, but I like to have a couple treats.

Hence the body. I love kid food so much. Some Airbnb left some dino chicken nuggets. Bro, that's how Americans should be eating. It was so good. I love those dino chicken nuggets.

I'm so sick of these people with their restaurants and their artsy food. I'm not trying to eat a piece of lettuce just to be healthy. Why can't we make dino chicken nuggets healthy? How many years are dino nuggets going to cut off my life? Two?

Yeah. I'm not going to be 82. That's another campaign I'm going to have. As Indiana, every school will have the option. Every-

Tyson. Elementary school will have the option. If they don't want to have the chalupa, remember the chalupa? Yeah, Taco Bell? No, no, no. The chalupa

when in public schools. Oh, yeah. Did you have that? It was like a taco shell with like shitty meat and some cheese. Yeah, we had all the same. The taco, we had all the same.

No, you went to private school. I found out you went to a rich school. So did Bayless. But not everyone that goes there is rich. Bayless went to that school? He went to the same school in a different town. Remember? We were like rivals. So here's the thing with that school. Yes, there are rich kids there. There's also poor kids that are just Catholic. There's also people

that want to go to a good school. Sometimes when I'm sad, academically good school is a really good... My first two years of college were fucking easy as shit compared to my high school. It was like that. I do love smart people. Ken Jennings. Look at that dude. Brilliant. I wonder what his high school... Sometimes those trivia guys

aren't good at school, though. It's weird. He said he was good. He was in the debate team. I know what I'm saying. He's got it both. He's got the type A in the left brain, right brain, left brain. You know what I mean? I wonder if he was taking dialed in gummies, he'd be smarter. Probably about the same. I think he's still smart.

Anyway, they're homogenous. They're clean. They're made with just like... There's no solvents in them. Great word. That's a smart word. This episode's about being smart. Solvents. They're homogenized, so they're equally spread.

Keep using big words for this ad. Homogenized, so they're equally spread. Just like butter on a perfect piece of toast. Yeah, serotoninous. Serotoninous is not a word. And also, if it was a word, you were thinking of serotonin. And that doesn't even apply to this. Yes, you get great serotonin is not a word. And also, if it was a word, you were thinking of serotonin, and that doesn't even apply to this. Yes, you get great serotonin.

You probably got better grades than me in high school. I guarantee you got better grades than me in high school. I had a 3.6. See, I had like a 3. I fucked off so hard. I was that kid that like, I would sit in a class for an hour and not hear one word the teacher said. I'd just be daydreaming.

Really? I daydreamed all day. ADD. Well, I was close with my teachers. This was the 90s. I'd be working in my teacher's offices so they gave me A's. Plus you were hot and they just liked the hot guys. Well, yeah. I think because I was talking to them,

I'd go hang out with them. So I didn't really do a lot of homework and they just passed me. My teachers didn't really like me that much. But I did get into Indiana and I got into Boulder, Colorado. I almost went to Colorado. That's good. You got good grades then. I wouldn't have got into any of those schools because I was just like, I got into Boulder, Colorado. I almost went to Colorado. That's good. You got good grades then. I wouldn't have gotten into any of those schools.

I don't know. I just didn't take it seriously. It happens. I hate those people who are like, I was super smart. I just didn't try. It sounds so lame. Yeah, but it's kind of true. I kind of feel that way about some of these musicians. They're all like,

some of these bitter musicians who are really good, and they just talk shit about success. I'm like, you're not working hard enough. Yeah, I hate that. Actually, that's one thing I try to really avoid doing. You'll never hear me talk shit about a band. Who works hard? I'll make fun of their music a little bit, but I won't

question their work ethic. I'm not mad they're successful, but that doesn't mean I can't think their music sucks, right? Yeah. Fair. I don't get how people dog on work ethic. That's because what they're doing there is they're just embarrassed by their own work ethic, so they're lashing out. It's just like how people don't like the pretty girl, like the homecoming queen, you know? Oh, yeah.

And I heard this thing like- It's hard to be hot in this society. I mean, you get everything, but homecoming queen, you know? Oh, yeah. I heard this thing like... It's hard to be hot in this society. I mean, you get everything, but everybody hates you. Yeah. I heard like hot people are the loneliest because they're just so hot. That makes sense. And they're like the super, super hot.

People are intimidated to talk to these beautiful people. People are hot phobic. I like that word. Indianapolis, we're going to change hot phobia. Yeah, there'll be no more hot phobia. Indianapolis, we're going to change hot phobia. Yeah, there'll be no more hot phobia in Indianapolis. If you're hot in Indianapolis, we will fucking support you.

We will rave about you. Set up a meeting with my office. Come on in. I'll meet with any hot person first. I'm not hot phobic. Attractiveness is a good model to judge people by. Okay. If you're rich and you're ugly,

come on in. Bring it on. I got 10 years to learn about Indianapolis. You only need about six months. Rubbin's racing. You got to learn about auto racing. Right. Dowding gummies.

I think they've got like three mentions now. Yeah, so shout out. They're the best. I'm going to go get some samples tomorrow and a little checky check. Ooh, we're going to make some. Daddy's going to bring the check home. We got to do celebration.

I should get you a bell. I want them to. So you would just like ring the bell when you get to the house. Money's here. Money's here. Like an Arby's.

Ring the bell if you got good service. Money's here, Andy. Yes, come up to the podcast arena so we could come and cash that check of ours.

Shout out to another check we're getting. Volume.com. Hell yeah. We love volume.com as well. Backslash creator. We need more people to become creators on volume.com. It goes back to work ethic. It's like these trivia videos I've been making.

I don't really... Is anybody seeing them? They got a couple hundred views, but you never know, dude. You got to make shit. You got to put it out there. It's about having assets. Create assets. Even if they don't work, it's very cheap and very almost free to get on there. You know what I mean?

It's free to get on the platform. You might have to spend a little money making it. You want people to skim through the fat of YouTube and have to go through a billion fucking videos just to get yours? Or do you want to go through volume.com and have all the top quality shit? Because they have all the top quality live streams. They have our podcast. If you want to see our face, look, Nick, you look great. Did you trim your beard? Oh, the other day, yeah. It looks awesome. I shaved my head too. You look great. I shaved my head. Do you want to see Nick looking hot?

Go on volume.com. You want to see me looking raggedy as fuck? Not bad for a guy in his 40s, you know? I try to shave my beard and I'm just patchy. I mean, I look good for a guy in his 40s. You look hot. For a guy in his 40s? What about me? I'm 35. Yeah, you're not alright.

That's what I'm talking about. You want a guy who loves everyone? Vote for Frasco. Or do you want an honest guy who gives it to you straight? You know what I mean? No, shut the fuck up. Jesus fucking

God. That's pretty good. No, shut the fuck up. Jesus fucking God. That's good. That's pretty good, though. Okay, volume.com. Yeah, volume.com. First of all, everything looks good on there. Their tech team's great.

You're getting the professionalism of a massive streaming platform, but it's like mom and pop still. But it's going to be that big because that's how good it is. So get in now. It's going to blow up, people. Do you want to be late to the party? Do you want to get there when shit's about to go down? You need more digital assets online. They are evergreen.

Yes. I don't get why people don't understand. Instead of complaining about other bands being successful, why don't you just try? That way when you fail, you can at least know you did everything. God, this is awesome. Like Cosby Sweater, I have no regrets with that failing because I know I

put everything I could into it and it just didn't work out. That happens a lot in the music industry. What I don't like is all these half-ass guys who mostly still live in Indianapolis and never left, who act like they tried their whole 20s and now like, the music industry sucks. It's like, you didn't even leave your hometown. What do you want to do, America? Do you want to be

in your 50s or 60s and realize that, oh, I could have been on volume.com or do you want to get your fucking, while you're in your prime, get your ass out there and get signed up to volume.com? Yes.

Stop complaining. Yeah, stop complaining. Unless you really tried. But we complain every week. Well, yeah. We're getting paid. We got to fill out that. We got to do something around the ads. Yeah, you're right. Ken Jennings to fill out that. We got to do something around the ads.

Yeah, you're right. Ken Jennings, ladies and gentlemen. Kenneth Jennings. A man who doesn't complain. He's been studying. I wouldn't complain about him. He knows everything. I thought the craziest part of our interview with Ken Jennings.

So if you guys don't know who Ken Jennings is, Ken Jennings won Jeopardy 76 times. Let me do it. Ken Jennings won Jeopardy. Okay, so until 2004, you could only win Jeopardy five times consecutively, and then you're out. Then they changed it in 2001, I think, and he came in 2004 and won 74

consecutive. Holy shit. From June through November 30th, he won. He sets a lot of records that still stay in one of those being most correct answers per game. He got 35.4 were correct. The person who was second at that time wasn't even above 30. Wow.

That's insane because he held that average for 74 games. The other people were only doing it for five. He's like the winningest game show host and a game show contestant in American history across all the game shows he's been on. Cause he's done other stuff like promotionally. He won the goat tournament. Like literally had a greatest of all time jeopardy tournament him jane his enemy who we talk about in the interview you'll learn more about him james holtzauer this guy brad rutter had a three-way match four matches he won three out of four brad won zero

and holtzauer won one uh so he's the goat he has a trophy that says he is the greatest of all time and he's so good that he's now one of the hosts Let's fucking go Look at our show I'll say she does a great job as a host too Really? Yeah she's a little more like an actress than him But she has like a degree in neuroscience from Harvard or something

Aren't you proud of us? I'm proud of us From jam bands From small jam bands when we started the show, to now the host of fucking Jeopardy. We are going global. How did you do this without a co-host so long? Shut the fuck up.

I'm serious. What? I'm serious. It's hard. Anyway, we're going to have a great week. We're done here. Volume.com. Volume.com.

Dialed in gummies. Ken fucking Jennings. Ken. I don't think that's his real middle name, but is it? Remember when I said that? I'm like, holy shit. This is Ken fucking Jennings. Ken? I don't think that's his real middle name, but is it? Remember when I said that? I'm like, holy shit, this is Ken fucking Jennings. I was like, god damn it. He's on Disney. I know, I fucked that up.

But you're going to love this interview. We talk about Jeopardy groupies. We talk about... He's on the same network as I.E. Carly. Yeah, we talk about him being smart, him being rich, him hiding his richness because no one can... Because he won. Because he won. Dude, that's impossible. If he had a kid... No, him hiding his richness because he won. Dude, that's impossible. If he had a kid...

No, but I like how they do that. They don't give you the money until after the show airs. So if you fuck it up, you don't get your money. Ooh, tight. There's no fucking way. I could do it. There's no way you could do it. I know for a fact you wouldn't be able to tell someone. I tell people I have record deals before I sign the contract.

There's been people come up to me saying like, I heard you got this amount from volume. I'm like, what? It's like way more, you know what I mean? Because I know how you are. You're just like, oh my goodness. We might get this and we end up not getting that. It's like a third of that.

But it's still good. I'm not complaining, but it's just like making fun of Andy because he gets delusions of grandeur. Well, I get excited. No, I get it. My brain tells me like, this him a fun of Andy because he gets delusions of grandeur. Well, I get excited. My brain tells me this is how much you're worth. You get predictions of grandeur, not delusions of grandeur.

We're going to have a great week. Keep pumping yourself up. If you feel like you're worth big money, you're deserved big money. Ask for the fucking money. If you want more out of your partner, ask for it. You got to ask out of your partner, ask for it. You got to ask.

If you don't ask for shit, you're never going to get it. The higher you ask, the higher their counteroffer is going to be. Yeah. Ooh, hot. I think I would be a great negotiator. I would love to get into a... That's good to know. I would love to get into a job or something. I'm just going to start being ridiculous with my offers for my festivals.

Yes. Ask for, you know... Bonjora is going to kill me. No, but ask for like... And then you'll get every time. That'd be tight. They don't know.

You sell a lot of tickets. I know. But no, it's all metric. I know. I know. What venues you sell and how much tickets. It's all fucking.

They have math people that figure out how much you're worth. But I do think that But you're worth as much as you think you are. So go out there and follow those dreams.

You're worth 50, 60K a year. Get a nice little house in Milwaukee. Raise a couple kids. Not a bad life. Sup, Denny's? Dude, that guy. You love that guy. I love that guy. I bought that shirt off of Shithead Steve. Says, sup, Denny's.

I started a blog where I didn't finish it about Denny's, how they should all switch into being music venues and only have metal bands after 9 PM. Oh, hell yeah. Be a good rebrand. I think for them.

Yeah. Two hangs out there anyway. Yeah. Yeah. 4 AM. I always see metal heads in there. It's just people smoking cigarettes and having shitty coffee. Yeah.

I used to do it. I used to do it too. All right. Goodbye. Enjoy Ken Jennings. Thanks. Wow. The Michael Jordan of trivia. Ken Jennings. Thanks. Wow. The Michael Jordan of trivia.

Ken Jennings, how you doing, buddy? Hey, thanks for having me. What's going on in your world? How's it feel? Pretty good. Jeopardy's wrapped for the summer, so my day job is over. Got a book out. It's getting nice in Seattle for a change. It's been a long, rainy spring, so we always look forward to

the month and a half of nice weather. Is it hard for you just to sit around and do nothing? I actually am kind of a restless soul, which I guess Buddha would say is not a sign of virtue.

Like I should just be happy in the moment, right? But instead, I'm very much like, boy, what did I do today? What have I gotten done? Even if I'm doing something dumb like watching a movie or binging a show, I do feel like I should be accomplishing something like, okay, what's the next show we're watching? Let's knock out three episodes tonight. That was productive. Yeah, when you're making Jeopardy,

you're the host of Jeopardy now, but before we talk about being the host, what strives you to keep learning? I don't think it's a choice. It's probably a compulsion, like maybe an unhealthy one. I mean, I do feel like it's a choice. It's probably a compulsion, like maybe an unhealthy one. I mean, I do feel like it's defensible. You do become a more interesting person. It's easier to get to know people when you know something in common with them. It really does pay off in life to be a curious person, a lifelong learner. But I can't say I just, I can't say I chose it

because I'm a good person. I just have always been that way. I was like the little kid carrying around the Guinness Book of World Records and being like, hey mom, hey mom, hey mom. Like, do you know what

the biggest omelet ever made was? Do you know how big it was? Do you know how big it was? Like some kids are just like that, you know? What was the first moment where your parents said, damn, this motherfucker's smart?

I don't think they said that to me. They were very careful. They had me tested to see if I could get into the smart kid kindergarten, and they never told me what the results were. They didn't want me to have either a big head or a wounded ego,

I guess, just from having a number. Right. So I think they didn't want me to be a quintessential gifted kid, which is good because those kids can be insufferable, right? Yeah, yeah. And they burn out sometimes too. That's what I was always wondering. Is winning Jeopardy that much?

Do you have Jeopardy groupies that always just watch, just are obsessed with the show, write you letters? We're in bands, so we have different side of the groupie situation. But for Jeopardy, what was that like? It felt like you're on tour. You're living there. It's exactly the same. You got to get all the naked women out of your hotel room every night. No, I mean, there is a groupie situation on Jeopardy,

but all the women are maybe 75 and up. They all have double ARP cards. Yeah, double ARP. They're a lot easier to outrun. And if you go to Denny's after seven, you won't see any outrun. So, you know, I got a lot of questions for you. I want to start early in your life.

Were you raised Mormon? Did you go to BYU because you were a Mormon? Yeah, my family's Mormon. Like, back to the pioneers. Like, we're as Mormon as you get. Yeah. Oh, no shit. So, are you still Mormon?

Yeah. I mean, I host Jeopardy during the week and I teach Sunday school on weekends. And, you know, it doesn't mean I'm not critical about religion in general or particular things about my faith tradition, but it's really made me a better person in my life. And I feel like I have to grapple with that.

I'm the kind of person who needs a little bit of nudging to not be a dick. And it turns out the Christian gospel is pretty good for that. Yeah, I'll clap for that. Let's go, let's go. I'll clap for that. I the Christian gospel is pretty good for that. Let's go. I'm Jewish and I'll clap to that. There's a good overarching message. No, but it's fascinating.

So you went to BYU. What was it like? Were you a social butterfly or were you just always studying? No, I feel like in college, they like in college, you know, they say in college you find your people. And weirdly, I had to go to like Provo, Utah, where I did not think

my people would be. But weirdly, like my first week on campus, I saw a flyer for Quiz Bowl tryouts. And I was like, oh, I love game shows. I'm going to go do this. Maybe I can get on the team. And like those turned out to be my college friends for the next three or four years. We'd kind of crisscross the Western US in a van playing quiz bowl tournaments in dark campus

buildings after hours. And it's a weird little subculture, but- Was it competitive? Honestly, that's- Yeah. You play against Stanford or Berkeley or whatever. And we were good. We weren't great, but we were pretty good. And I started to see people from that world show up on game shows. I'd be watching Win Ben Stein's Money and I'd be like, Oh, wow, that's Richard. I totally know that guy.

It's a whole scene. And I almost think that was the moment where I was like, you can try out for these shows. These people don't just come out of nowhere like clones. If you want to be on I was like, you can try out for these shows. These people don't just come out of nowhere like clones. If you want to be on a game show, you can try out. Yeah, my friend is on a bunch of game shows, five or six of them.

Not the smart one, but she has a game show agent. Really? Did you have a game show agent as Jeopardy? What? She's a contestant, but they just get her auditions to go on different game shows? Yeah, she's on all these teasers. The Cube or whatever.

Yeah, The Cube, Floor's Lava. You're the ones where you just run around and try not to hurt yourself. Yeah. I had no idea. You're touring the Quiz Bowl. What tournament do you remember the most of? You either lost or you should have won or you weren't prepared. What makes you... I feel like you're pretty competitive you should have won or you weren't prepared what makes you

you know what do you you know you i feel like you're pretty competitive do what you lose sleep over these yeah ones yeah you always lose sleep over the ones you lose honestly like i read in john mccain's obituary like that guy no matter what he had done for the rest of his life you know national decorated hero yeah he was still mad about the time he was on the art fleming jeopardy in 1972 and he didn't know what is ecuador you know like i gotta look that up on youtube that's it's but it's like that like the you know you never forget the one that had your name on it yeah like in quiz bowl i remember there was one tournament we won against like a pretty good team like caltech or something and we were high-fiving because we we rarely were the best team but like

then we played like kind of a separate pop culture tournament after and we were high-fiving because we rarely were the best team. But then we played kind of a separate pop culture tournament after and we almost beat them again, but I didn't remember the name of this obscure 80s Parker Stevenson TV show called Probe. And like as a kid, I loved this failed TV show, Probe, and I couldn't think

of it in the moment. And to this day, when I see Parker Stevenson's face, which doesn't happen often. Yeah. I'm still back, you know, back in my post-traumatic moment. What's the difference between studying for a Quiz Bowl versus studying for Jeopardy?

I mean, Quiz Bowl is like deeper and more academic. You know, the idea is like you actually know this obscure king of the Franks or of Tuscany or whatever. Whereas Jeopardy, the show only works if the folks get it right. Nothing's worse on Jeopardy than three people just standing there slack-jawed looking at the camera. So the secret of Jeopardy is all the clues are written for them to get it right.

There's little nudges and helps and hints. It's actually nicer than Quiz Bowl. What did you learn as being the host? Have you learned the game better being the host now or is it you always knew all these things, all these tricks? We re-watched some of your highlight reels. It felt like ESPN. We were re-watching

all your stuff this morning. It's a puzzle, right? It is. And it's also, there's a bit of psychoanalysis. You're actually trying to read the mind of the person who wrote the clue. Right. This thing didn't come down on stone tablets. It wasn't written by Chad GPT.

It's a text. A series of creative decisions went into this clue. How can I figure out what the guy was thinking, what the writer was thinking, and will that get me to the right answer? It's like reverse engineering almost or something in real time. Yeah, exactly. Like think like the writer. Like why is it like this? And what does that mean the answer is?

And, you know, for whatever reason, I did okay under that pressure. Like it's an insane crucible being a Jeopardy contestant. You know, you're not running around like floor is lava, but it's very intense. And I see people kind of... I see hands shaking and I see panic attacks. It's intense.

That's what I was thinking. What's the green room like before the... Because you do like five of them. Don't you do like five of them in a day? Yeah. So you just keep winning. You're on a tear. You're like Wolf of Wall Street.

McConaughey and Wolf of Wall Street just pounding his chest. I see you, Ken. I bet everyone's fucking scared shitless of you, dude. I mean, in general, there's a contestant staff there that's trying to make everybody forget the competitive angle. Trying to make you forget that it's a zero-sum game and you should all be like

friends and you're in this together. And it works pretty well because generally our contestants feel like they found their people and like they'll stay on the group text or the group chat for years with the people who beat them on Jeopardy or whatever. But I do remember I was not the most popular person in that. Yeah, yeah. Are there any people

that go in like... I kind of have survivor's guilt. Are there people that go in like trying to psych out other contestants before the game? Is that ever a strategy? It happens. It's pretty rare. Like that's the occasional person who's the people that go in like trying to psych out other contestants before the before the game is that ever a strategy it happens it's it's pretty rare like that's the occasional person who's got that kind of swagger because like be it yeah exactly being good at jeopardy is a very different personality type i think than being like a college basketball star yeah a lot of these people tend to be too friendly and shy and retiring so So occasionally, somebody will try to

talk some smack, but it's not really the right thing. They probably end up losing a lot. Generally, it's pretty collegial. So do you wait till you win to talk that shit back, Ken? He's like, I got $4 million in winnings. Yeah, suck it.

Yeah, after the game, I'm like, oh yeah, you thought your grandma would want to see you on Jeopardy? You think she wants to see that? You think she wants to see what you just did? She's getting old. This is probably the last thing she ever sees you do. No, in general, I found

that the people who were friendly before the game were even less, you know, less chatty after. It's not fun to get spanked on Jeopardy. And I felt bad because I was like them. You know, we all had the same dream like, this is our favorite show and this is our one chance to actually try our hand at

it. And then they show up and it's some guy who's been there for 48 shows. That's not cool. Right. And you're so comfortable. You had 48 shows to talk with Alec Trebek. What did he teach you about life? Watching him up close, I was mostly just impressed by what an amazing broadcaster right exactly you know like like nothing ever fazed

that guy the show he always could do the show in exactly half an hour with hardly ever a retake well um he was just he was just perfect for that job it kind of it kind of grew up around him and made him what he was and vice versa. And so now that I have to host, it's really the worst because he was so graceful and perfect for it. And I'm like, oh, I'm never going to... You can't replace that guy. He's irreplaceable. Yeah. What was your psyche like when you're doing your auditions and stuff? This guy's the goat at this. How did you prepare yourself to say, I could do this as well? I mean, it almost felt like sacrilege.

I didn't want to see anybody but Alex hosting Jeopardy. I didn't want to be there either. But it was really more like next man up. Some left tackle breaks a bone and then suddenly somebody's coming off the bench or it's just like new guy in NOM. And I didn't really have a choice. Let me try to stay afloat here,

but this is not what I want to be doing. It's a very hard hosting game. Right. And were you pissed that dudes like, who's the quarterback? Oh, Aaron Rodgers. You're competing against Aaron Rodgers and you're way more qualified than Aaron Rodgers.

Was that kind of like competition? Because that feels pretty competitive, you know? I thought he was pretty good. My wife was like, oh, he's so good at it. And when you drilled down, it was clear that what she meant was, oh, he's very handsome. It's okay, Ken. We think you're hot. I think brains is hot, Ken.

I'm not Aaron Rodgers hot, let's be honest. Yeah, it was, you know, it kind of did turn into a con and that was the downside like the upside of doing that whole guest hosting thing is people saw a bunch of different approaches and the viewers could kind of let go of this idea that it can only be alex but the downside is it created the illusion that it was like a it was like a reality show like a talent contest or something right made it seem all these people were kind of head-to-head, and you should pick your favorites and vote. And it turned into American Idol.

Yeah, what's the pro? Now you're dealing with... Contestants in the competition thing is different than pros trying to get a gig for a hosting gig. Was that a little more competitive than the contestants on Jeopardy? I never saw any of the other hosts. I was there when I was doing it, but I didn't see any of the rest. I was just kind of sitting at home here in Seattle

wondering how is this going to wrap up. For years, I've been telling people there's no way I'm going to get this job. I'm not a broadcaster. I know the game, but that's not what you need. But it turned out you can go both ways. You can take a performer like Mayim Bialik and teach you how to play Jeopardy, or you can take somebody who plays Jeopardy and try to teach them how to be a TV host,

and it kind of works out. It meets in the middle. Who gave you the call? Like say, hey, Alex, he's not feeling too well. He's not looking too good. We're looking for hosts. What was that conversation like? Were you like, I'm not doing this? Or was it, like you said, next manned up? You had that mentality.

I mean, I was already a consultant on the show. I kind of had this BS producer credit. And so when the producer called and said, hey, if Alex's health doesn't get better, we might need you to fill in. And at that point, it was like, okay, you know, but if he feels better that morning, like it should be him. But if this is what Alex needs, you know, okay. Like anything for that guy, you know, like he's the best.

And as it turned out, like the day I was supposed to go into rehearse, that was the morning that I found out Alex had passed away. So suddenly it got serious very quick. And I had talked to go into rehearse, that was the morning that I found out Alex had passed away. Suddenly, it got serious very quickly. I had talked to him the night before. I'd done a brief call with him. He was still Alex, even though his voice was a little bit

weaker than the last time I talked to him. We talked about Jeopardy. It was clear that he was still very engaged in the show. He wanted to talk about James Holzhauer and, you know, he was like, to me, it's like Steffi Graf and Martina Navratilo. You know, he had this whole metaphor

about how Jeopardy contestants were like tennis players, you know. He loved that show and it was nice to talk to him, but 24 hours later, you know, he was gone. That's so weird because like, I believe in that where like some work keeps people alive. If you didn't have Jeopardy,

if you have nothing to live for, he loved that show ever since the end of his career. What were those last couple conversations with him? When he knew he was dying, was he pretty like he kept it all in the chest or were you guys starting to get vulnerable as he was getting sicker?

I went to one of the last I went to the last show of the season that we thought might be his last season of taping. As it turned out, he did some more shows. But we kind of thought maybe he's going to hang it up over the summer. And he was not feeling great. He was doing chemo and radiation at various times. And so he'd be in a lot of discomfort backstage. But then as soon as the announcer said his name, he could just walk out there and be Alex Trebek. You're exactly right. That was the job that made him feel like he was still him and healthy and in an environment that

he had some control over and he was good at. And that was nice to see. And he had also just gotten this amazing outpouring of mail from... he's got 100,000 letters and emails of people telling him what he meant in their evening and to their family and in their homes. And, you know, he was visibly moved. You know, he was in touch with his emotions for an 81-year-old Canadian man. He was like, Ken, most people don't get to hear this stuff till after they die. You know, this stuff's in the eulogy, but I'm still here and I get to hear it. And he was very moved by that. And I gave him a hug, which I don't know if that is his thing, but, you know, I.

You're like, come here, big guy. It is now. Bring it in. He meant a lot to me. And it's still, you know, I still hear his voice when I, every time I'm doing the Jeopardy thing. Luckily, I can still hear him doing it. The rhythm, yeah. How would Alex say that?

Yeah, in your brain, he's like, Ken, you fucked up the pause on that. Do you think he would have been a great contestant? That's exactly what it is. Do you think he would have been a great contestant if he played in the game? Like, was he... I almost think the reason why he's so good

at hosting that show is because he was playing along. He literally knew that stuff. Every time he would be like, oh no, you're thinking of Henry VII. This is Henry VI. He is reading off a sheet, but also he's not faking it. He does know that stuff. You can't improv that kind of stuff. The best wrong

answer without knowing what the right answer would have been. Having all the answers in your hand, does that make you feel dumber or smarter? No, it's, it's so nice. Cause like I say, it's scary to be up there as a contestant. You don't know what's coming next. Like the next clue could be anything and you can look like an idiot. You could lose, you could lose the price of your car on a daily double.

Anything could happen, you know? And, uh, you know, there is a lot more, even though the host is doing more than the contestants are, and there's a lot to keep in your head, at least you know you have all the answers and it's a little more job security than those folks do. Right. And especially you're talking about the perfectionist that Trebek was, how hard was it to do these one-take shows?

In the beginning years, where you had to take a couple takes on it because you're nervous and stuff? Do you remember one show where you totally botched it? Yeah, there was, I mean, even in, Alice never had teleprompter ever. And so I feel like that's the way to do it. Like, just kind of go out there and talk about the game

and be yourself. And like, that's kind of what I strive for. But sometimes it means, you know, getting marble mouth or getting tongue tied. Like, during Masters, you know, James Holzhauer, great Jeopardy player, he's from Las Vegas. And I kept introducing him as from Los Angeles. And I did it like three times.

And James is like, you know, I can't believe I lost to this idiot. You know, like James is not enjoying this, but I kept getting it wrong. And always, as you say, I'm always thinking, well, Alex would have never done that. I never saw Alex do that. Yeah.

It's pretty wild to me because it's a pretty intimidating game, especially if you get in your head and you're doing what? How many do you do a day? Is it a two-month thing? You do it for two months and then you do four or five shows a day? Or is it kind of like a union hour gig or

Jeopardy? A week is a day. So we do five shows in a day, generally in two-day chunks. I'll fly down to LA for two days. I'll do 10 Jeopardys and fly home. And that's pretty intense for the players too. That's a lot, yeah. So when you were on the, what did you did, 48 shows? How many shows? 74, right?

74? 74. What was your relationship like with your wife when you're, I'm so curious about that because you're always, I mean, you're living in the studio in LA. Where was your wife living at the time? Was she living with you? We would come and go.

I'd fly down. We were living in... I was working in Salt Lake City at the time. So I'd fly down for 48 hours, do 10 shows as it turned out. Never knowing, but as it turned out, winning 10 shows and some kind of nutty amount of money. And then the shows weren't going to air for months. So I'd have to fly home and not tell anybody where I'd been. Go to the morning meeting at work as if I cared, you know, like, uh, I kind of had to have this double life. My wife, of course,

knew she had been in the crowd and she sometimes, she sometimes came down to watch, but you know, it was just this time bomb that was going to go off when the shows aired in a few months, but we didn't know what that was going to be like. Did you tell the Mormon church before it aired? but we didn't know what that was going to be like. Did you tell the Mormon church before it aired so they didn't take your money before they saw the television show? No tithing. I didn't tell anybody. My parents didn't know, my co-workers.

My boss was covering for me at work, so my co-workers didn't know. Wow. My wife would come down, but she would... I remember Alex razzing her because she'd be doing a crossword puzzle in the crowd. And Alex would be like, oh, Mindy, are we boring you?

Have you already seen too many? Has your husband won on Jeopardy so many times you do crosswords now? And her answer was like, no, I'm keeping my head down because the other relatives don't like me. Nobody wants to sit by that guy's wife. Right.

And she's just like, yeah, he's going to get this one too. It's like, pork. That's awesome. Keeping the secret. Keeping the secret of that much money. I would have quit my job. I would have bought an ice cream truck.

I would have got all this stuff. Sure, we all would. So what was that? How long did it take until it aired? How long did you have to keep the secret for I mean I kept the secret for three months but then like

at the time the shows air I'm still taping new shows so people are showing up backstage on Jeopardy and they're like oh this guy oh this guy you know

because they're already seeing me on TV it was they don't Jeopardy doesn't pay you until you know after your shows have aired

so you know they don't want anybody to ruin the secret by buying a new house or whatever. Oh, yeah, yeah. Ken Jenning buys a 17-bedroom house in Salt Lake City. Also, if you tell, you probably don't get the money. Take it away. Yeah, exactly.

The thing I was terrified of is like, we're actually pretty happy. We had just bought this little brick starter home outside Salt Lake. Like my son had been born and he was like one. Like we were, I had a day job, like things were okay. And I was like, this cannot be the thing that blows up my life. Like I do not want to ruin my life by suddenly being Jeopardy millionaire guy. So we were terrified. Like, let's not spend

the money. Like, I drove the same Toyota Corolla for another 10 years just because it was running just fine. I like that. I love that. I guess that's the thrifty Mormon pioneer heritage. You don't get rich. It's not just that money is evil,

but maybe it's a little unseemly to be spending all that money. Yeah, exactly. And also, think about if your kid was eight or nine and kids just talk. Dad was on Jeopardy. It was a perfect wave of not knowing. He's one. He's not going to say shit.

Yeah, yeah. I got to be honest. I can't see you driving a Ferrari. I don't think it's a good fit. The guy who directs Jeopardy has a pretty nice Bentley. He's British. He happens to park it right where the studio audience lines up. So every day I take questions from the studio audience and every

day they're like, is that your Bentley? What kind of Bentley is that? I'm like, no. I'm in a rental Toyota. That's not my Bentley. I'm hoping to get reimbursed. I'm keeping receipts. Yeah, exactly. I think it's a write-off.

So, when these episodes started airing, you're in Utah. I've played in Salt Lake City a lot. It's a small enough town where they find out, can Jennings win this thing? Who started becoming your friend first?

Who, like, out of the woodwork? They find out, can Jennings win this thing? Who started becoming your friend first? Yeah. Who, like, out of the woodwork? Were you cousin? Like, you're like, this guy's making a shit ton of money. I'm going to try to get some dough. Yeah, did you get an entourage all of a sudden? Yeah, Jennings has, like, five people in his crew now. Yeah.

He's got a driver. Umbrella guy. He has a Toyota Corolla, but he has a driver. There was actually none of it. It was actually really cool. It was like, these were the days right before social media took off.

So I did not know where all my friends from first grade were. You go on TV for six months and people pop up and they're like, hey, you don't remember me, but I'm Matt. We used to play together after school. And so people would reach out,

but it would be like amazing. It would be like some kind of, this is your life moment. And nobody was, nobody was creepy, actually. It was kind of faith affirming that like the people were awesome. Yeah. Did you ever get,

do you ever go through depression after like people maybe forgot about you after 10 years or something? Like did you ever go through like the post depression? Is there a depression years of Ken Jennings? Like what was going on? No, that was actually my dream. It always seemed unsustainable.

You can't be famous just for winning on a game show for six months. So I'm like, when does this go back to normal? And it never really did. But it felt more normal when it was not a big fame cycle. That's kind of what I miss. Yeah, that's crazy. And I think about your heel, James. That's crazy. I think about your heel, James. I want to think

about that guy. Is it a real heel? Do you guys really not like each other? Do you guys hate each other or is it all fake? That's all kayfabe. Is he going to be mad if I say that? No, I think you should keep it up. We've got to keep the beef going. It's like Biggie and Tupac. WWF. Yeah, like James Oldtower.

You know you're nothing. You know I'm coming for you. That's the thing. I'm retired now. It's a weird wrestling gimmick where the arch enemy became the referee. So what's he going to do about that? Well, Ric Flair comes back every five years.

I do like that he plays the heel. Then every time he does his little informational thing, it's some charity that he has. He has a bunch of... Every time you talk to him between rounds, it's another charity that he helps out with. Do you think... He's genuinely kind of a different guy, but like...

You can tell when he talks about that stuff. He's sincere, and he's lovely, and he's a family man, and... He does like winning, though. He just likes being the first ever wrestling heel on Jeopardy. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah. And also, you know, yeah, I think about that. Like, do you think he's like bitter that you got the job as the host?

I don't think so. Like it's I mean, it's just such a crazy thing that an ex-player became the host anyway, right? It's like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Like one of these children is going to get the golden ticket and they're going to keep the factory. He stars in another game show now, right? Where he's kind of

the guy they have to beat. Yeah, the chase. That's a birdie show. And I think he's very happy to be a contestant. I'm old. I am very happy to bow out and not have to play that guy anymore because he would kick my ass.

I'm turning 50 next year, and it's kind of a young person's game, the memory and everything. He's still at his peak and more power to him. Do you have a photogenic memory? Is that how you learn all these, prepare for jeopardy? Do you have a photogenic memory? No. From what I've read,

that's not even a thing. Maybe occasionally little kids can look at a page of text and the image will stay on their head. But I think for the most part, everybody's memory is the same. If we're interested in something, it sticks. And if we're bored without even trying, and if we're bored by something, there's no learning.

And I think maybe Jeopardy people are just more interested in more things. You know, they're just omnivores. Like they don't specialize. They're not like, well, yeah, I like indie rock, but I don't like jazz. Or I like basketball, but I don't like hockey. Like these people are just like sponges for everything. They're like information. Yeah.

If you can trick yourself into being that kind of a curious person, I think the stuff just sticks in your brain. Yeah. And going back to hosting it, I'm a huge Howard Stern guy. And I felt like Howard Stern was on your side of you being the host of Jeopardy. Was the Howard bump help you with your way to get to Jeopardy? I think it did.

Was he saying that on the show? I don't think I knew that. He was pitching you hard the whole time. He's like your number one guy. And the Howard bump, I think it's pretty real. So I was wondering if he ever messaged you saying, good luck out there, Ken. Go kill him.

I'd been on the show before, and it was great. It was a ton of fun. I love him as a broadcaster, but I had no idea that he had a horse in the Jeopardy race. That's probably why. I got to send him a fruit basket. Yeah, give him a fruit basket. I think he'd love that actually.

Let's talk about your book. You wrote a book? We got to talk about the book, Ken. Yeah, I've actually... I don't want to talk about the book if you don't want to talk about it. No, I just appreciate you pretending the interest. Like, I love that. I can't wait to read it personally.

I think you're super fascinating, Ken. I've been really looking forward to this. We've been looking forward to this interview for a while because it takes a lot to do what you did. So tell me a little bit about the book. Like, I wanted to be a writer after Jeopardy. Like, I kept my day job as a computer guy, but I wasn't happy doing that. And when I got the deal to write a book, I was like, this is the thing that I like to do in school.

I liked telling stories and weirdly, I liked library research and I really liked deep dives. And so I've written a dozen books. The new one is actually the weirdest deep dive because it's different versions of the afterlife. It's called A Hundred Places to See After You Die. And the idea is, you know, what if you had a travel guide to every possible afterlife, all the way from ancient Babylonia and Egypt up through Dante and Buddhism and everything up to the good place, up to Harry Potter and Tolkien and all the afterlives like that,

the Klingon afterlife. And it's really kind of interesting what it reveals, not just about how we think about death and religion, but also just about how pop culture has evolved. Because Homer was the pop culture of his day and so was Virgil and so was Dante. When these people were reading about the afterlife, it was basically like us watching The Good Place or that Albert Brooks movie about the afterlife.

Who do you think has a better imagination, Homer or this generation? You know, I feel like our afterlives are getting more prosaic and mundane as time goes on. I was watching a lot of old twilight zone episodes with angels and devils. Right. And it's all like a bureaucracy. Like the angels always got like a clipboard and he's like, Oh no,

no, no. You're you're six minutes late getting to heaven. Like that was the mid century idea of heaven was like a bunch of bureaucrats. At HR. And today it's almost like, yeah,

exactly. It's an HR department. And today it's even worse. Like today, all the, all the heavens and hells are like gig economies. Just like real life?

It's basically San Francisco is the afterlife. There's TV shows like Miracle Workers and Dead Like Me. The afterlife is now... You have to imagine an onboarding to your awful new DoorDash job or something. That's,

that's kind of where our culture is now. Who, who are your, who are the writers that inspired you to, you wanted to write like? I mean, mostly I read fiction, but I write nonfiction.

I kind of feel like if I'm reading a book for pleasure, like reading a book full of facts is too much like my job. You know, I just want to read a novel. But like when it comes to nonfiction, there was a book in the early two thousands called word freak about Scrabble players. And I was not,

I knew nothing about that scene. I was not predisposed to be interested in it. But the thing I realized reading that book is the author goes into so much detail that it becomes interesting. It's like a paradox where it goes through boring back into interesting. And I was like, this is the secret I think is like, you can do these nerdy deep dives and the,

you know, the reader can sense your obsession and like kind of, um, kind of, kind of glom onto it. And that's, that's kind of what changed my approach to writing. Do you think,

uh, you love, love writing fiction so much because your job is about facts? Yeah. I mean, when I read nonfiction, it's because I can relax. This is made up. And also, I have no gift for writing fiction. So to me, it's like a magic trick. When I read a well-researched, organized nonfiction book, I'm like, yeah, I know how you would do this. Maybe this guy's got a better pro style than I do. Maybe he's got access to sources that I wouldn't have. But I see how this would be done.

But when I read an amazing transporting work of fiction, it's like seeing a superhero. I don't even understand the brain that can do this. And I'm just in awe of it the whole time. This is wild. I've always wanted to write a book and I've always wanted to just dive into something like that. It just seems like

it's the most intimidating thing. How many months of it just writing down ideas and thoughts until you finally until your producer's like, now we're getting somewhere. You're a songwriter. I feel like you already have the muscles. Like it's somewhat, you know, it's probably more of the same, you know, it's a, you know, it's a little bit different, but I feel like you have the muscles for it. And when I, when I see somebody who can put together a song or a short story or a script

or whatever it is, I, it's just beyond me. I can do a workman-like thing where I put in the work and I have an outline and I know how it makes sense and I know what the reader should be thinking at different points. But I kind of feel like ChatGPT is simulating actual talent and inspiration to a degree. And that's kind of what I wanted to get at is like, what's your take on chat GPT? Is it, do you think we're becoming dumber because we're relying on computers to make us feel smart?

Yeah. I thought about that when I lost to Watson on Jeopardy, when IBM had the computer. You did beat the other guy to be fair. You did beat the other human, but that should be noted. But the machine kicked my butt. And I remember thinking like,

this is kind of like, you know, personally, it's really humiliating for me, but like, I think it's not great for the culture if everybody is like, yeah, our machines just know all the facts for us now. If I ever need that,

I'll just ask, I'll ask Alexa or I'll ask Siri or whatever, you know, because I really feel like we need facts to make good decisions, whether that's who to vote for, you know, what to study, who to date, like your life is full of decisions. And if you don't have the right facts, you're not going to sit and look them all up.

You're just going to make a dumber, you're just going to make a half-assed decision. Right. And I think, I think that's maybe the destiny for our culture is people making worse and worse decisions unless we, you know, unless we take advantage of the new information access instead of just outsourcing our brains. And selfishly, I think that's going to make Jeopardy even more popular because there's not going to be that many smart people anymore. So people are going to want to see people who actually fucking know their shit. We only have four contestants this year, Scott.

Only four people auditioned. Do you think it would be like... In Jeopardy, I feel like as a kid being kind of a trivia nerd, you felt like there was some social utility to it. You'd be like, someday somebody's going to want to know, hey, what's the name of the bassist in that band? What's the name of the woman in the TV show?

I'm the guy at the office that knows that stuff. Nobody needs that nerd anymore. Everybody just Googles. We're useless. You've been outsourced. By ChatGPT. Redundancy. Your job's been eliminated. Do you think

in the future there's going to be computer versus computer Jeopardy? Who has a smarter computer? I was in a hotel a couple weeks ago and I just started feeding Jeopardy clues into ChatGPT and you know the thing about Watson was Watson was not actually better than human players

it was faster it had better buzzer so you know when it got it when it knew the answer it got it but ChatGPT I think just as far as the clue answering is better than any human player you can still write clues that fool it, but it's difficult. How do you fool it?

What's the philosophy of fooling it? The wording, I think. Yeah, a lot of it is, you know, it's just got a big text corpus. So if you come like, I fed it a few clues, like I had just been in a country music museum in Nashville, and I saw

an interesting fact on a placard and i i made the jeopardy clue out of that and it didn't get it and i was like oh like maybe this is something that's not easily on the internet like you have to go to a physical place to see this fact the other thing would be like if there's an element of word play you know like you know take the word elating and move the g to the front and you get gelatin. That's the kind of thing you can build a jeopardy clue out of, but chat GP doesn't have that use case, you know, in its text corpus,

you know, so I can't do it. It will. Right. Do you think terminators coming, Ken? Do you think we're going to be in the age of terminator here in our generation?

I was, um, I was in a car ride with a guy who turned out to be an AI professor and I asked him that question. I was like, why do we think they're all evil? And he's like, first of all, it's pop culture, but it's also like pop culture going back. It's like in the West, our whole creation

myth is like somebody rebelling against the creator. Adam and Eve rebel against God in the Torah. Lucifer rebels against God in paradise lost frankenstein's monster you know we have this our mythology is all about the creation rising up and killing the creator and he's like so like we're locked into that but we don't have to be like in japan like they have a bunch of just nature is full of a bunch of nice spirits kind of doing their thing that are really chill and so when they think about robots and ai they have a bunch of just... Nature is full of a bunch of nice spirits kind of doing their thing that are really chill.

And so when they think about robots and AI, they have a very different vibe. So that's hopeful, I guess. I think I'll clap to that. All right, that made me feel a little bit better. Thank you. I'm sure the American culture will use it for good. Ken?

We have years of evidence that supports that. Ken, how strict are you with your kids doing homework? Yeah. I feel like that kind of thing is pretty counterproductive. It's hard for me because I was always the kid who would absolutely do what they were told. I'd do the least amount of effort to get the grade that I thought was okay.

So not really an overachiever, but definitely it's not an option. I'm going to do this thing well because I'm a, I don't know, oldest child, people pleaser or something. And my kids don't

necessarily have that in every subject. Well, they have AI. So I don't know how to deal with a kid who's not like, well, of course I'm just going to keep doing this until I get it right. Or no, of course this essay is half-assed. I'm going to rewrite it. Right. But

I do find that the Jeopardy thing of what are you curious about really helps because if a kid is not engaged, it's not because their memory is bad or their aptitudes are bad. The teacher just hasn't reached them. Like they haven't taught it to them in a way that sticks. So when I teach like my kid math,

like he'll tell me what his teacher taught him and I'll be like, look, don't do that. Like if you do it this way, like it's much clearer. And like, it actually works. Like he'll be like,

whoa, that is better. And I feel like I'm actually a good dad for like 10 minutes. You know, I'm smarter than your teacher. I went to Jeopardy 74 times. Is it Princeton or bust for you, Ken, with your kids?

If they go to a state school, are you going to chew them out? My son is actually a college sophomore already. And he put in applications all over the country and he wound up like 10 minutes from here at the University of Washington. Oh, that's a great school. So he's at a state school and

he's perfectly happy. I'm not a snob about education at all. In fact, I kind of... Those people are the worst. It's all a little bit suspect, right? These kind of weird... You get onto some Ivy League track and then you're set for life because you met the son of this guy and your roommate

is the son of the CEO. It's who you know. I don't love that. Who's a stricter parent, you or your wife? She is much better at child psychology than me. Like, I'm the one, like, my kid will just say something insane. I'm the one that'll be like,

what? And she'll be like, uh-uh. And then she'll, like, actually do it the right way and be like, hey, tell me why you think that. Or, how can we help you do that? You know? She's much more, like, I'm like the quick on the buzzer, the

Jeopardy guy. And she's like, like I'm like the quick on the buzzer the Jeopardy guy and she's like take a second that's beautiful actually I got a couple more questions I know I'm everywhere on this guy we're with the goat right now you are a goat you're one of the greatest he won the goat tournament it's like official you have a trophy

that says greatest of all time on it in your home right I do it's like above me and to the left right now. Do you ever go to bar trivia and just wear that around your neck and just like just dominate? Just clunk it down on the table real loud. How many points is this worth?

I don't really do bar trivia. It's not a good vibe. It's weird if I win. It's weird if I lose. Exactly. You can't do it. Were there any addiction years in Ken Jennings' life? Was there booze, the booze? Did you ever try hallucinogens? Did you go explore

the mountains of Egypt? No, it's like the worst behind the music. I don't even know what my... I gained 20 pounds during COVID, and that's like my only... That's like the dark part of my music biopic. It's like my only, that's like the dark part of my music biopic. And then he was extremely normal.

As a fan of literature and writing, what's your take on the writer's block? Strike. On the strike? I mean, I have so many, I work with WGA writers. I have lots of friends who are WGA writers.

And I'm really convinced that it's an existentially important moment that they don't let the studios turn writing into a gig economy. It stays a job. And that's not what the studios and the streamers want. the studios and the streamers want. I got placed in a lousy situation this month where we still had a week of Jeopardy left to tape and we already had 50 contestants flying in who had paid their own way and crew members who needed the hours

to keep their healthcare. It was a situation where on paper, I'm like, boy, it's really good for the strike if I can disrupt, shut down Jeopardy here, you know, power to the people. But the moral calculus was just really complicated. Yeah, it's gotta be. And luckily, and luckily my union was instructing people, you know, you still got to work, you know, you'll be in breach of contract if, you know, and it's, it's in our interest as a union to make sure that like that if we expect

the studios to abide by their deals, we want our members to do it as well. So I was in the good graces of my union. But I knew I'd get yelled at by keyboard warriors for hosting a week of Jeopardy. You'd also get yelled at if you didn't. Yeah, you'd get yelled at.

It was the right thing to do, but I kind of knew it was not going to be any fun It was a tough spot to be in Don't let him take your royalties, Ken Jennings You deserve those, baby You deserve those royalties Ken Jennings needs his back end Ken Jennings needs his back end

Behind the back end The great thing about winning $2 million on Jeopardy Or whatever it was I kind of feel like I can kind of do what I want now. I'm good. I don't need to worry about the money. And the trophy. And the GOAT trophy. What's worth more to you? The $2 million

or the GOAT trophy? I don't know if I can pawn the trophy. Is that real gold leaf? I don't even know. Ken, this has been amazing. I got a couple more questions for you. I'll let you go. I know you're a busy man. Growing, like, I do want to ask a money question. Fuck it, I'll ask it.

What's the difference between the dough being a host and being a contestant? Well, it's guaranteed. We always used to give Alex, we always used to give Alex crap about that because we knew that he was making, you know, we'd be getting these big checks

and I'd be like, Alex, you made more for this tournament than we did. Admit it. He'd be like... He'd grumble about that. As it rolls out as McCarron or something. I think if you're James Holzhauer and you're making... If you're making Holzhauer money, you're

making more than the host. I think even today, maybe the contestants might be making more than me because we're not making Alex money. Well, the Masters tournament is almost 40 years of tenure. What about the homie from Wheel of Fortune? That homie makes a ton of money. Sajak? Sajak. I mean, they've got...

When you've been in a job for like 40 years like they have, think of the leverage you have. Exactly. They can't replace Pat Sajak until he wants to be replaced. And they're not going to replace Ken fucking Jennings, baby. Let's go! Our guy! At least half the year. He does split it with Mayim Bialik.

She's great, too, though. I like her, too, as a host. Yeah, it's good to have the variety. It was so fun talking with you guys. Thanks for having me. Thank you, Ken. It means a lot. I got one last question. I'll let you go. When it's all said and done,

what do you want to be remembered by, buddy? I mean, I was talking to a friend about this and I was like, I'm at the point in my life where I want to leave the world a better place and it's hard to figure out how to do that. And he said, well, what if your legacy is like just the joy that Jeopardy brings to people? And I didn't like that

because it just seemed like such a cop-out. Like, boy, thank goodness that I get just you know the joy that jeopardy brings to people and i didn't like that because it just seemed like such a cop-out like boy thank goodness that i get you know i get paid incredibly well to to make you know to make jeopardy viewers happy every night at at 7 30 you know like it seems like it has to be more than that when when i was when i was raising young kids that's how you make the world better like by making your kids good people and fit for that world um but now that the kids are older um you know i think that that's actually my next problem is is uh is what what do i want to be remembered but if it's just like if it's just like jeopardy was so important in our house i always you know because people come up to me and they're like it's not a show you know that's my memories of my grandma or you know when my dad was sick or just watching with my friends at college.

Jeopardy is a real, it's almost like a ritualistic thing that people, it takes people back like Proust or something. And just to be associated with that would be the honor of my life. It was always my favorite show. It's beautiful, man. Thanks, Ken. You're wonderful and you've made my family happy growing up, watching you kick butt out there. And I know Nick,

Nick has a trivia show and I know you inspired Nick as well. So thank you, buddy. This was so fun. Thank you for having me. Thanks buddy. Hopefully I'll be a good test. Grab the book.

Oh, I got one more. Sorry. One last question. Was it scripted? Did you know that answer when you lost Double Jeopardy? Felt like you knew it. It's all rigged.

No! That would be like against federal law to read a game share. Sometimes you just don't know the Daily Double or the Final Jeopardy. Did Trebek say enough is enough, Jennings? It's done. Are you never going to use H&R Block?

You're not using H&R Block to do your taxes, I'm assuming. Are you never going to use H&R Block? You're not using H&R Block to do your taxes, I'm assuming. Yeah, you don't have H&R Block. They offered me a lifetime of free services, so I will never forget H&R Block. If you're going to lose on Jeopardy, lose on the corporate question.

If you lose on what is Belarus or whatever, you're not seeing a penny. All right. You can't get a brand deal with Belarus. No. Thanks, Ken.

Really appreciate you. Go grab his book and good luck out there, buddy. We're rooting for Ken. Really appreciate you. Go grab his book and good luck out there, buddy. We're rooting for you. Hell yeah. You tuned in to the World Saving Podcast with Andy Fresco.

Thank you for listening to this episode produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angelo and Chris Lawrence. We need you to help us save the world and spread the word.

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We thank this week's guests.