Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 287: Paul Hoffman (Greensky Bluegrass)

Episode Date: September 10, 2024

Scandal & Corruption Erupts! Late night on the tour bus, an unsuspecting and uninitiated sweet baby angel boy tastes the bitter wrath of interminable whiskey shots as he tries to match Frasco's intemperance. Why are we always so tired after tour again? And on the Interview Hour we get a deep dive into the beautiful mind of a killer songwriter and dear friend from Greensky Bluegrass, Mr Paul Hoffman! Andy & Paul talk about their upcoming Red Rocks Amphitheater show Sep 14th and debate the number of chimpanzees to enlist for the event.  We're psyched to partner up with our buddies at Volume.com! Check out their roster of upcoming live events and on-demand shows to enrich that sweet life of yours. Call, leave a message, and tell us if you think one can get addicted to mushrooms: [phone]  Check out our new album!, L'Optimist on all platforms Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out our good friends that help us unwind and sleep easy while on the road and at home: dialedingummies.com Produced by Andy Frasco, Joe Angelhow, & Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Shawn Eckels Travis Gray  Mara Davis

Now, a message from the UN. Play one more. When times get bad But I wanna fuck If you're still down In a river of cum About to drown Jump off Cause I'm coming Jump off Cause I'm coming

I don't wanna be a dad Jump off Cause I'm coming Jump off Cause I'm going to be a dad. You're a boss. Because I'm coming. You're a boss. Because I'm coming. I'm going to slay it. All right.

And we're live. Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our minds? Woo. Are you sleep deprived from another long-ass tour? Hell yeah.

Woo. Feeling good, though. I'm just doing this from a hotel room. Just the opening. We got Paul Hoffman from Green Sky on the show this weekend. Because we are playing this week. Because we're playing Red Rocksater yes with our boys green sky um wanted to you know for my fans who don't really know green sky i want you to get to know them before we all embark into the rocks that is denver colorado this weekend. He's a great guy. But the tour has been amazing. Holy shit.

What? Crowds were so big. Everything is just getting so big right now. And I can't thank you enough for all the help and everything you do for our band. How much you were there right from the beginning. Like right at doors, everyone was there to hit to watch uh dogs in a pile and you guys stayed through the whole show it really felt like a traveling circus and like a lot of people went to a lot of these shows multiple shows i saw them traveling all

around the fucking country watching this tour and um just to see their smiles on their faces throughout the whole tour it made me feel feel proud that we were doing something different. We were doing something fun. It was the killer. It was fucking killer. The best part of the tour, I mean, I'll go deep into depth of this when I get home. I decided to not fly to Denver today. I'm going to Chicago for a night.

I'm going to fucking just have some fun, eat some crab legs. I don't know, crab legs in the middle of the country, but fuck it. I'm going to fly to Chicago. I got a fancy hotel. Just going to chill out and get ready for the Red Rocks week. Before I did that,

the day before, I got to tell you this one story because it was fucking hilarious. The last week of the tour, it's all fucking sad and lonely. Not lonely, but it's like sad that we're all... Because I don't know when we'll be able to do this again. All these bands are... We're all bigger bands and we can't... It's hard to do this.

So we knew that this was going to be the last time we do this for a long time. So I would have sleepovers in each of the tour buses. I had to spend some time with the Pigeons boys. We're adults. We're adults in that area. And then the second time, I was with the— Hold on one sec. They're trying to kick me out.

I got a late checkout. I'll be out in 20 minutes. 12 o'clock. Thank you. I'm sorry about that. Trying to kick me out. So, you know, we were having mature, drinking wine, having fun on the pigeon's bus, you know, laughing. And then drinking wine, having fun on the pigeon's bus, you know, laughing.

And then the next day I get on the dog's bus and it's like Uncle Andy shows up. And we were having fun. We were drinking heavy. And I forgot that, you know, those boys are 25 years old. So I was going, was shot with Jimmy Law. And I realized that he doesn't really drink that much. And it was like turned into like a 6 a.m.

The great thing about being on tour buses, you drive through the night. So like you wake up, you're at the town. We hung out, we're writing songs. We wrote like five songs that night. And I didn't realize that their alcohol tolerance was not as strong as mine and i hear just as jimmy law is throwing up out of the window while the car is driving i'm like i thought i was having a nightmare while the bus was driving i was like i thought i was having a nightmare i was like fuck what is going on and And I realized it was Jimmy throwing up. I didn't realize until I got off the bus. I woke up

and I saw that I'm like, what? Why is the whole bus stained? And I see Jimmy walk out. Well, brother, I don't really drink whiskey. I was like, oh my God, my sweet poor boy. don't really drink whiskey. I was like, oh my God, my sweet poor boy. Should have told me, Jimmy, I would have not happened to have given it to you. But we had a blast. I love him so much. But it's been fun.

This whole tour was great. I'll go into details when I'm with Nick and we'll do like a whole hour episode about the tour. But until then, volume.com baby. Happy anniversary. We're having a volume.com party, company party anniversary. Although we're having a volume.com party, company party at the Red Rocks show. Head to volume.com for all the great live streams,

all the great content. If you're a content creator, they are the best. They will give you royalties. They will help you with content. They will help you with their staff is amazing. And if you're just a fan that wants to listen to some good quality content, head to volume.com. There's so many live streams going on.

All right, guys. Chris, play some Green Sky off the new record. Or play Windshield. I know it's an old song, but I fucking love that song. I don't know how I'm feeling and no one can verify. Green Sky, Paul Hoffman. These guys were one of the first bands that ever gave us a shot as a touring band. And then, you know, one thing led to another.

We had to disperse our ways because that's what happens when, you know, you get the road takes you. And it's going to be amazing to finally be reunited with our brothers in charge. And I really think you're going to love this interview. Hoffman is, you know, he's a sensitive guy. And I think I got some good stuff out of him. All right, guys. Enjoy Paul Hoffman. And I'll catch you next week with J.J. Gray,

where me and J.J. have a special announcement we're going to be introducing to you. All right. Love you guys. Bye. Wow. Here we are. It's two dudes in Denver

talking about music, life, COVID, and children. Yes, man. I have all those things to talk about. Yeah.

Paul Hoffman, how you doing, brother? Good, man. Good to see you. You're at my home. Thank you for having me over, man. I fucking love it. You don't live too far from here. Do you live in the mountains? I live in Golden. Oh, that's cool. So yeah, not too bad. Tell me the growth of Colorado. You've been here forever. I've been here for about eight years only. Only

eight years? Yeah, and I lived in a couple spots. I just recently moved to Golden, living in the suburbs. Digging it, man. You love it? Yeah, we've been there about a year and it's like a change. We're not as close to the local restaurants we used to love and all that kind of stuff, but I love suburb life, dude. It kind of gets you away from the riff-raff, too. My neighbors are great and we meet some parents in the neighborhood

with kids who are real cool and there's some musicians in my neighborhood and stuff. It's fun. Yeah, and you have a kid and a wife and you don't have to go out on a Tuesday anymore. There's some musicians in my neighborhood and stuff. It's fun. Yeah. And you have a kid and a wife. You don't have to go out on a Tuesday anymore. No, we rarely do anyway. I got teenagers in the neighborhood to mow my lawn. Really?

I got teenage babysitters. Are you the cool neighbor because you're a rock star? I don't know, man. I'm not there enough, I guess. Who the fuck is this Jesus-looking dude over here, dude? Yeah, he's that long-haired guy painting his garage, listening to Dr. Dre at 9 o'clock at night?

I see you guys a lot. You're hiking and shit a lot. Is that part of your everyday life? You love hiking and camping with your family? We do a bit of that. We have one of those camper van things. We got out a bunch this summer as a family and just did some camping and around gigs and stuff it's pretty fun yeah kind of like because like my

question is like how do you i mean you've been doing this for so long with your band how do you like have like in your brain feel like you have balance to like keep going because we're just talking about tour schedule and work life and stuff like what's your take on balance it's tough man it's like back and forth. And then I was just telling you when we were talking, it's like I've got to stretch home now, home for 17 days, as long as I've been home for quite a while. But there's so much stuff I've got to catch up on, you know?

Life stuff. I'm on my lawn and go see the dentist and shit, you know? Yeah. The van helps because we get out in the woods and it's like you can't do your chores at the house because you're just at your campsite. You got to do campsite chores. So it's not like total sloth mode. You got to level the van each day and flip over the car seat

and cook a meal on your propane stove or whatever. Do some dishes in the river. It's fucking crazy. Go hound other campsites for firewood. How many days do you do those? A couple years ago, we did like 6,000 miles around Green Sky gigs. It was pretty extreme. Hold on, what?

Yeah, two, three weeks. We went all the way to Canada and back. What, like with your... With my wife and kid, yeah. So you would keep walking and then you'd have a gig fly? No, no, no no we drove the van drove the van all that way no we didn't i don't can't hike that far dude i fucking around like 1.5 legit jesus dog like just walk in the fucking i'm like forrest gump in it my sweet angels

my family i will be back in two days after i play des moines iowa no we drove the van that's uh it's funny after all those years of driving your own tour van and then driving a little, we had a little bus for a while, and then we got this camper van, and I got back out on the highway, and I was like, whoa, I'm back. And I can just have this endurance to drive for so far. I missed it, I think. I know. Yeah.

And it's kind of like a safety blanket, because that's all we really know is traveling. Yeah. Yeah. it's kind of like a safety blanket because like that's what we really know is traveling you know yeah i love that like highway highway hypnosis to quote the billy string song you know it's just like you're driving this you're all you can use your brain but like you can't i'm gonna kind of have a fault of multitasking i'm always doing a million things at once on my phone and while i'm on the phone i'm mowing the lawn or whatever you know it's like and then you're driving it's just like, just thinking. You write while driving?

I get a lot of ideas and try to get Siri to get them down right and she didn't do it. What was your favorite write? Like, I love that too. Driving and just like, I don't like even putting on music. I just like just being silent with the road, just driving. Yeah, there's something to that, too. So what songs have you written on just fucking spacing out on the road?

I can't think of one that I wrote driving. Sometimes, because it's easy to write in meter, like tap my hand or whatever. I wrote one in the shower the other night. Yeah, what was it about? I think it was just about working too hard, taking a break. That's what I'm talking about dude It's the shit I'm writing about all the time Why do we have to force ourselves to kill ourselves on the road?

Man that's It's a tough balance If you do what you love for work And you don't want to get up and go to work Then what the hell does your day look like? You don't love what you love anymore Right It's tough.

Yeah. But, you know, it's like that creative, you got to follow that creative voice wherever it finds you. Right. I know, that's the thing. Like, creativity, having a job in creativity is so hard because it's not like you go like, I mean, I see Nashville, they turn it on like that. But like us, it's like, we're torn so much. When we get home, we're exhausted. Takes us a couple of days to rewind.

And then we have to get back on the road. Like if you take a full time amount of break, maybe we could be more creative on a daily process. But I think our brain is just catching up with the exhaustion. Like how many years have you been in a band? 24. 24. I'll clap to that.

Let's clap. That's more than half my life, man. I know. And you guys still love each other. Yeah, you got to learn how to turn... I mean, I think you got to just learn how to turn it on. Creativity can be a skill, too. I think when I started, it was like I was sad about something,

so I wrote a song. Or I was going through a breakup or wanting to break up or something like that and wrote a song. And I just kind of learned to find that it can be a skill, being creative. You can find that inspiration in the same way by turning it on, and it's not contrived. It can be hard, though. I take a lot of notes

sometimes if i'm just like thinking about stuff like what i might write about um you know like some some paradoxical thing like a pride and jealousy or something like that and where they meet and then i'll like meditate on it for a while pride and jealousy let's talk about that i see a lot of the bands that open for you just get super fucking famous i would be so fucking i'd be so pissed, dude. I'm so proud of all my friends. No, it's like very proud. It's like, just like for the ego inside yourself.

You know, sometimes I get like that where my friends get really, like my boy's little stranger fucking blowing up. I got to stop myself from being jealous and be proud. Yeah. There's a, there's kind of a fine line there, right? Right.

I've been trying to write that one for a while. I haven't figured it out yet. Yeah. Like what is the fine line? You know, it's like, it's just internal bullshit. It's just like,

it's like ego telling us that, Oh, you should be working harder. You should be working harder, but it's not about working harder. Sometimes it's just, you know, it's not your time yet. We got to realize when it's our time yeah and i you know we what we have is really special and really great and we have a lot of loyal fans that you know as

long as we keep it up i think i feel like most of them are going to keep it up with us so right there's some uh security there yeah and john i think of john prine a lot like john prine didn't really famous until like way later in his career yeah but he was writing fucking killer songs when he was younger dude killer song same chord progression same melodies yeah it's us i did man i did that the other night dude i came up with this i was worth this song and i wrote like verses and chorus with no music and then I was like wow started messing around with my guitar and I'm like I'm just gonna sing this just and I just start playing my chord progression I always play just sing it and I'm like okay so later I'll

repurpose that with a different melody or something but and I just prying man all those same chords all I love it some melodies Van Morrison too is like that. The good ones. Yeah. What's the, I mean, why are we overthinking? Why can't we just 4, 1, 5,

6 all day, man? That's what I want. 4, 1, 5, 6. I know.

I think about that a lot. Like I think of Van Morrison, the band kind of changed it up a little bit, but there's still some, you could tell which songs are, who's writing which songs and stuff. But yeah, it's just like, how do we like get out of our own way that's my question you know like that's like all i'm like

we gotta get out of our own way yeah we are doing some dope shit you know we are we're doing great shit i mean we're who makes a living playing music who gets to go to fucking red rocks every year like we do we do i'll clap to that let Let's fucking go. Go to Red Rocks this weekend, ladies and gentlemen. 14th and 15th, Green Skies with 13 and 14. 13 and 14. Yeah, Friday the 13th, baby. Oh, yeah. Honey Drops got that. Yeah, and your Saturday.

Saturday the 14th. I'm going to come to Buena Vista. Damn it. But yeah, come see us. Two nights. Green Skies, a family affair. Honey Drops, too. What a family affair honey drops too what a fun lineup yeah what a great band how many times you played red rocks um four sweet this will be five five this will be 18 and 19 for us crazy right there's gotta be pressure dude like that's so many tickets that's 20 000 tickets bro yeah man it still is like i hated it first time we played why because

it just said like i Because it was so hard. And then it was such a big deal for everybody. Like, that must have been the greatest night of your life. And I was like, well, no, it wasn't. Stress the fuck out. I was really scared. I was uncertain if it was good enough. And then I had to just sort of fake it all night when people asked.

Like, wasn't that so amazing? And I'm like, yeah, it was. But inside, I was like, no, that was awful. I want to go home right now yeah i'm crawling to a ball up yeah yeah why do we put so much pressure over a show it's man red rocks is intense right it's like 10 000 people like upright right in front of your face like you can see people in row 60 and you're like what up neighbor yeah exactly it's great that's actually true it's like it's like on a fucking there's like right vertical right there man it's like on a fucking vertical. Right there, man. It's like I can see the people in row 25 better than I can see the people in row 1.

Yeah. Where normally it's like you got those people right in front of you and that's it. Do you have that pressure in Michigan? I mean, I think I feel it a little bit everywhere. You know, it's like I always feel like we play really great shows the night before a big weekend. Yeah. I think a lot of bands are that way too, right? 100%.

We got a big weekend this weekend. We're saving this and this and this and this for Friday, weekend. Yeah. I think a lot of bands are that way too, right? 100%. We've got a big weekend this weekend. We're saving this and this and this and this for Friday, Saturday. Yeah. And then Thursday night, just nail it. I know. With all your Bs. Fuck. All the stuff you're like, we don't need that for the weekend.

Exactly. Everyone's like, that Thursday show was lit. What do you think it is? Because you're not thinking about it. Yeah, I think so, man. We got to get out of our own way. There's a delicate balance there too, man. Not caring at all isn't good, probably.

No, but caring, but knowing that you're the man for the job. There it is. It's like, of course we're going to care. We care about our art. We're not going to say like, fuck off. Just be pretentious. But just own that you deserve to be there. Have a little faith in yourself.

Have a little faith. What is that? Have a little faith in me. That's what I. What is that? Have a little faith in me. That's what I was thinking of. I was thinking too. I love that. But it's so true, man. I'm like, I got to get out of my own way. I got to get out of my own way. It's

the most important thing. It's like, how do you get out of your own way when you're making, how many records do you have now? I think we have eight or nine or something like that. So we're about to do a new one yeah what was it i got a lot of questions about the iceland thing yeah yeah that was fun kind of no little personal information yeah and i was wondering like how do you get people inspired to be present when they're sad

like musically or the fans just uh you know maybe a band if a band member is not involved you know or like someone that's going through it at the moment or like yeah man whatever it is how do you like as like the quarterback because i feel like hoff you're the quarterback of this fucking thing you run this show you know i don't want don't listen to this boys if i'm completely wrong but i feel like you're the quarterback of this. And as the quarterback, sometimes you got to rev the engines on some of these guys. Like, hey, I know we're all feeling shit. Let's all get it there.

And this is why we're in Iceland to keep our emotions away from the studio. How do you, how do you approach that? I think, man, so we've been through so much together. It's like, I've had my turns, you know, I've been through some shit and they've been there for me and vice versa. The Iceland thing thing was really cool i felt like we were all in a really great place we um we do real well when we're like isolated together iceland isolation yeah it's really close um and man that was really something dude we didn't see any people for days and there was no darkness either so like we recorded for 18 16 hours a day or something

just like non-stop um you gotta just i mean the sadness i try to embrace it and like i think music is a great place for sadness i'm sure people who've listened to my songs are probably like that makes sense yeah because didn't you have like a film crew film that we did we made a documentary that's going to come out uh eventually and it's pretty uh vulnerable dude that's what dave was saying like it's like he was telling me like all the kind of like what you all are going through we don't have to discuss it publicly because i will save it for the movie yeah you'll see it in the film but pretty heavy shit yeah we kind of it's kind of a rebirth for us in a lot of ways a lot of us were going through some changes really all of us kind of at the same time and i mean that That's maybe the key to survival this long.

They can't be the same guys we were 24 years ago. We have to be able to evolve. But you want to be the same band, but a different band, a better band. And like communicating. Yeah, we're talking more than we used to. Yeah, I feel like every band later in their life finally gets it. They communicate and then they're fucking happy. It took like 20 years to. Yeah. I feel like every band later in their life finally gets it. They communicate and then

they're fucking happy. It took like 20 years to fucking communicate. We were communicating but it was late and we didn't remember the next day. Yeah, exactly.

But now all y'all are sober. Most of y'all are sober so it's like you probably remember the conversations. We're pretty well behaved now and it's like a little bit more organized and

boring. No. No. That's my biggest fear about going sober is the road going to be boring we were in this last year dude we were playing we were playing cribbage and shit in the bus and like i was like we're so old we're watching watching the olympics playing cribbage like eating apples and fucking peanut butter pictures of all your kids and like hey look at this video of my kid and stuff. And like the band's all on the bus, like 40 minutes after the show,

and I was like, good night. But you know, like there was one night recently where Dave was just cracking the fuck up, and we're all getting in our bunks, and we're all laughing. I was like, this feels like a teenage slumber party instead of like a frat boy rave. You know, it's like.

Oh, have the tables have turned. Yeah, man, it's good though Oh, have the tables have turned. Yeah, man. It's good, though. What made you get into rock and roll and music in the first place? How old were you when you found out you wanted to do this? Pretty young, man. I was like, I was a theater kid. Yeah, me too.

My parents put me in acting classes when I was like pretty young, seven or eight or something. Michigan? Yep. And I did. How about Mizzou? Muskegon. Muskegon. Muskegon. Oh, damn.

I did a, I did a, but that's like a, right on the lake. Grew up in the lake. Did a bunch of community theater and stuff. Bunch of choir. Started playing the viola when I was in like fourth grade. I think that was my first instrument, sort of. What'd you fall in love, what was the first moment you actually fell in love with it? I think I'm, the Beatles, man.

My mom was a big Beatles fan. And I remember making mixtapes of her records for her to listen to in the car. fell in love with it yeah i think i'm the beatles man my mom was a big beatles fan and uh i remember making uh mixtapes of her records for her to listen to in the car for sure commute to work because you know kids have been like the text like the i knew how to make the record player go to the tape player and i remember like listening to the radio at night with my tape cassette thing like waiting for that song i love to record it right um and the kids don't do that anymore just go on the internet and just listen to whatever they want all the time i'd be like i like that song like oh yeah place to stay get your booty on the floor tonight that's like me as a young kid i remember shit like that on the radio and be like i want to get that on my tape

i love pop music did you have kids or not kids you have a brothers and sisters or anything my brother is uh like 10 years older than me. Oh, so you're just kind of entertaining yourself. Yeah. Were your parents older when they had you? They're the same age I was when I had my kids. Wow. Pretty much. It's like that Fleas Flux's song.

I'm finally the same age that I was when their parents had them, but I'm still single and alone. I'm like 37. I haven't heard that one, yeah. I think about that a lot. So do you feel like you had to raise yourself as you were older?

No, no, they were there, man. My dad worked a lot and stuff, but my parents were there for me and real supportive. I didn't accept all that. Why not? Were you a rebel? Oh, yeah, yeah. Like what? I just was? Oh, yeah, yeah. Like what?

I just was sneaking out, staying out late. I used to bring my guitar into the woods, actually, and write songs and shit. Shut the fuck up. Really? It's this cliche. What type of songs? Just folky, heartbreak teenage songs. My Birkenstocks was like a fucking leather bag. My guitar strapped around my shoulder.

Have you been the same person your whole life? I think so. I think I'm still that same guy. What was that first song you wrote in the woods? Oh, man. My mom one time told me later, because I made a record when I was in high school. CDs sold to all my

classmates and stuff. And she was like, all those songs I listen to now, and I just think you just needed to get laid. And I was like, mom, I was like 16. And she's like, yeah, but. When did you lose your virginity? I was like 16. Oh, so you already were getting laid.

I was getting laid. Like, fuck you, mom. I was already pounding cheeks. I was always just, you know, I listen to a lot of Pink Floyd and stuff. I think I've just always been into that kind of sad. Yeah. Sad song stuff. Melatonin.

Were you always been a sad kid? I mean, I think I'm happy, but I just like, sort of like stewing it or something. Like, music is like a cathartic thing for me. Like, if I feel terrible I listen to a really sad song over and over and over again and just like fully like

scratch the wound dig in yeah what was the hardest what was the hardest day of your life oh man it was tough

yeah we had to we had to make some staffing changes in our band and about a year ago and that was pretty tough oh yeah you're like your best friends yeah we were best friends for a long time and uh how was that conversation who made that conversation we had a tim and i had to talk on the phone uh it was really hard man was it was really hard. There was a lot of love there, and change is tough. And I've been through a divorce and stuff, too, and some friends go through that. And it's like, even if it's the right thing for two people to not be together anymore, professionally or romantically,

it's like, it's still so hard. I had to separate from my manager, too, after eight years last year. It was the hardest thing. It felt like I was breaking up the hardest thing. It felt like I was breaking up with my girlfriend. It felt harder than that to me.

Yeah, because you were 20 years with him. 16. 16. Yeah. What was the conversation like? Was it supportive

or was it kind of angry at first? We stayed calm and friendly, I think. It was hard. It was just emotional and,

you know, it's hard to tell someone that you need to make that change and they don't see it coming. Yeah. Cause at the end of the day, it is just business and we're just trying to look out for our business sometimes. And it's hard to be stay loyal. It's,

I mean, it's like, we've been staying loyal the whole night, whole time. And it's like, I don't know. I'm never want to regret like, what if?

Yeah. It's a pretty intimate business though, man. Like the guys that are on the road with us i love them so much like that's a dangerous feeling right employing people that you care so deeply for i know but i just said you know i have to like trust trust myself to have the like the ability to handle those hard talks and get through those hard moments for better or worse. What a year, dude. And then Guido, too. He got a job. He got a job.

The crew guys, it makes sense. Eventually, they're like, man, I don't really want to be on the road anymore. And they're like, I'm going to get a house gig. And I think to myself sometimes, can I get a fucking house gig? Can I just play the Bluebird every week? You're like, fuck.

COVID was pretty nice just playing at the house. We're all just scared about it at first. I'm like, damn, like, oh yeah, it's actually pretty dope.

I think back on it sometimes and I was like, man, it was nice to get bored again. Yeah. I, I didn't understand what boredom was because we're always so high stimulated.

Yeah, totally, man. Like, look at you now, like, you can't get bored you have to clean the house you gotta fucking wipe diapers or whatever you gotta fucking write music write music shows

i try to get bored man i bought a looping pedal recently you get what tell me about it just i mean i've it's been like months since i've even played with it but the goal it's like i bought it to just fuck around with you know sit in my studio I got my old Casio keyboard hooked up to it like these synth bass tones that are just so cheesy as shit and I like try to teach myself

how to make these loops and I'm just in there jamming then I get my acoustic guitar out do some chords have you tried to pull it out during your solo shows? no no I'm not quite there

I do a little bit like with my pedal board but not with this like full looper but it's the boredom thing I bought it as like a a toy for myself to just like play music and not have there be so much pressure to like i'm sitting down with my acoustic guitar on a notepad and i'm writing a song i'll just like sit down and

start messing around like i wrote this bass line and then like like what chords are those and then it turns into a creative process but like in the way that it used to be like when i just get a guitar out and start playing along with some music or something so i was uh i got to hang out with billy couple months ago and it's like he's got a sick ass studio at his house it's fucking unbelievable and he's out there playing with keyboards and shit doing like disco techno stuff i'm like wow this is how we fight boredom is just to like not think about what art what we're actually doing kind of like yeah it's like a good entry level into the entry into the creative process i've been to his house to his studio and him and i did that shit with like just some

fucking beats and stuff we wrote this song called uh spider-man's freaking hilarious is it yeah so good sometimes you just need to like not write you still want to write music but not doesn't have everything doesn't have to always be a green sky song or a frasco song or a billy song just or just just remember when we just used to write music just to fuck around with our friends the spider-man dude it's like it's it's kind of actually really sad too because is the first verse You said you were Spider-Man And I was Lois Lane And you would never leave me And I believed it

Oh my god It's like it's silly but that's so sad That's such an emo song dude Spider-Man and Lois Lane like the mixed metaphors Something about that makes me go whoa I just love it Are you into cartoons? Yeah When you were a kid like superheroes I'm like something about that makes me go, whoa. I just love it. Are you into cartoons? Yeah.

Like not. When you're a kid, like superheroes and stuff? I still watch like Disney cartoons all the time. Not just because I have a kid. Like Pixar, I love that shit. It's amazing. I think that's like my biggest, like how can you like, I think that's how you write timeless music.

Pixar is a perfect example of that. Because how do you like kind of like have the theme that kids can understand but also tug on the heartstrings that older people can understand and i think we figured that out in our music maybe that's how we write timeless music yeah yeah i mean i think i relate to that in like a way that like i try to say things simple when i can you know there's something beautiful about a great metaphor, but then something like you said you'd never leave me and I believed it.

That's just so simple, but so... That's the kind of stuff I'm always trying to look for. It's such simple words, but then to still be behind the creative process. I think that's where people of all ages and all different emotional feelings can relate to it.

It's simple. What song are you most proud of? That's a good question, man. I like a lot of them for a lot of different reasons, you know, um, in control is one that's really important to me.

Uh, that's like, I kind of need that one. You know, when we went through COVID and I didn't sing it for a while, I was like, I don't think I'm okay. I need to,

I need to sing that. You have to play that. Can you play that at least once a week? I don't know it for a while, I was like, I don't think I'm okay. I need to, I need to sing that. You have to play that. Can you play that at least once a week? I don't know how your fans are. We play that song. I'm pretty steady rotation. Yeah. What else?

Past my prime. That's my favorite. Yeah. I think about that song so much. Oh, thanks. Like it's really good. Fuck it song.

What were you going through during that? Why do you, why did you feel like that? Man, it was just, I think I was like getting ready to go through my breakup with my previous wife and stuff, or I was just kind of unsure. There's a lot of uncertainty in this career all the time.

I'm like, am I good enough? And like that feeling kind of plagues me. I try not to like obsess that it's a bad thing. It's like, that's just me checking to make sure I'm doing my best. Imposter syndrome? That's what it's called. Yeah. Yeah. I think about that too. You know, make sure I'm doing my best. Imposter syndrome. That's what it's called. Yeah. Yeah.

I think about that too. You know, I wrote that song real fast too. It's just like a real stream of conscious thing that I didn't put a lot of thought into. Those ones I think I like a lot because it's like, I don't know where they came from. Well, Windshield. Windshield is the same way. I wrote it real quick. Stream of conscious sort of thing.

I play that song a lot still too. We do play that one a lot. It's a great fucking song too. Thank you. I think about you when I hear that fucking guy, Zach Bryan. He's got a song that's not like it. Fucking song like... I'm like, those boys wrote that first boy.

You know, there's a lot of... The music's only got 12 notes. That's true. That pissed you off though? He told me that was his favorite song when he was 16. That's what I'm saying. He ripped it off. I mean, that just makes me feel proud.

I should feel proud of that. I'll fight him for you. He's a Marine guy. Actually, I won't touch him. Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. He's a great writer, man. He is a good writer.

I really dig his writing. But did you hear that? I'm like, oh, shit. People started playing it for me before I had heard it. And I was like, well, that's pretty similar. Did he ever say anything? We talked about it. What did he say?

He said it was his favorite song when he was 16. It's really hard to... I saw this... I don't know. Individual or being creative or being unique. It's like, does it exist anymore? Being unique exist anymore? Can we be unique in our own ways but still have the traditions of,

I think about bluegrass a lot. How many times can you like reinvent the wheel? How many times can you write a one, four, five? A lot,

I think. You know, for me, the unique is like authentic is what I'm trying to be. Like, I think if everyone's authentic,

it doesn't really matter how unique it is. Like, if it feels sincere and it feels real, I think that's what people crave from art. They want to see vulnerability too. There's always musically, instrumentally or something, I always wish I could be better

at the mandolin or something, but I'm up there every night trying my damnedest to play the best I can. I'm crossing the line a lot, making mistakes, taking it too far because I'm reaching for something. And when I watch players like that, I think it's intriguing and interesting.

And when I watch players that are so good that it doesn't look like they're even trying anymore, I think it's boring. I'm like, damn, that's really cool, but boring. Try. I want to watch people struggle. Yeah. I'm like, damn, that's really cool, but boring.

Try. I want to watch people struggle. Yeah. I mean, that's part of music, right? Hit that struggle. I think of the people who give up or kind of settle after the first 10,000 hours. It's that second 10,000 hours where you're fucking actually becoming a master at your craft, right? Yeah. I wonder if that

i've that theory i wonder where i'm at in the the hour you're way past 10 000 it's got to be right there's got what what record like what that question at or that theory what was that question what was that that breaking point or like on what record was it where it was like oh shit i might have hit a wall and i don't know what else to do and then you broke the wall and then all of a sudden other records came out like any records like that you know the two records i always think about a lot is handguns and sorrows and those are like over 10 years old now 10 and 12 years old and we produce those ourselves and i think that those are like you're popping them those aredefining records. That's when we figured out what we were.

Were you guys popping? Were you guys drawing really well 10 years ago? No, we were not selling a ton of tickets when we made those records. We started to in the tours following, but I always look back on those and part of me thinks that they're our best because I think that they're just

such band-defining moments. I listened recently to the records after that because we're trying to do this 25th anniversary project and coming up with ideas and stuff and we made some damn good records after that it's just that like we kind of like we got into like we are what we are and you know it's like

are we going to go make a record that's totally different somehow like I don't know what that is like we kind of make new records and they're kind of more we're challenging ourselves every time like better lyrics different chord progressions more intentional solos and stuff and the craft gets tighter but i kind of feel like we just make more and then there's a there's a creative part of me that's like is that bad or is that good i think people that are fans of the band don't want us to just like right do something totally different than be like like, oh, I don't like that.

Yeah. It's kind of scary to change. But what change are we supposed to make? I just... Yeah. We've got a lot of different stuff on the playing field. We've got funky songs, bluegrass songs, slow songs. That's why I think having Holly in the band was such a perfect move. She's fucking incredible too, man.

Really, really incredible. How do you stay inspired to keep writing music you love and that you love and not writing it just because the fans want you to write that type of music? Yeah. I don't think I do that. I gotta love it, you know? Yeah.

Cause you're playing them every fucking day. Yeah. And you know, I'll write songs and then sit at my house and just play them. That's how I know. I write one and I just want to sit there and play. Yeah. And I'll be like, okay, this is good.

Then I can deliver it on stage. It's like I get the emotion behind it for myself and I'm not just up there singing. I'm emoting. Yeah. You said something really cool. You're working on this 25 year anniversary thing and you're re-listening to the records finally again, because when you're making the records, like you don't want to fucking

listen to them because you've listened to them for so, such a heavy concentration for a year. You probably like don't even want to fucking listen to them after that for a few years, right? It's been a while since I'd spun them, you know, from beginning to end. Which ones are you still proud of? All of them, dude, man. I think we did some really great stuff. I listened to

Shouted, written down in quotas, the record that we recorded after Sorrows. And I listened to that one first the other day and I was like, damn, this is good. And there's some jams on it. There's some heartfelt moments. There's some cool sonic under stuff that we did with padding with extra guitars and keys and blocking spiels and stupid shit you do

in a studio scream in a bathroom like and i was just really proud of it it's a great record um we're not like a i don't know our fans listen to our records i think but like we're not a record band like people can see us live so maybe part of me is like, soak that in. Like, we make the records and we love them. But that's not the thing that we get the attention for. That's why it was so cool to see that record with Pastor Prime on it. That song's shouted, I think. Dude, that record got a lot of recognition.

I think so. Yeah, maybe it did. Dude, that song was huge. That's kind of my breakup record. It's heavy. Wow. So crazy. Everyone loves fucking when you're marinating shit.

Most of the bands I love, I know which album is their divorce album. You know what I mean? What's your favorite divorce record? Rift. Who was that? Page. Let's go. So fell the weight I never could lift.

Behind us the darkness. Between us the rift. Oh, my God. That's just the liner notes from the inside, man. That's heavy, dude. Oh, dude, that record's good. Did you get into jam music, like fish and shit? I got into fish when I was like 16, 17.

Really? Yeah. Bruises was talking about it. He loved fish. He had a hard-on for train shit. Oh, yeah, I loved fish. Still do. I still do.

Why do you like them, looking back? What intrigued them to you in the beginning i think that was like my uh the excitement of that free form you know like the grateful dead too when i was like 13 14 because it felt like what i was supposed to do and i'd love and appreciate the dead but when i found fish i was like this is more for me did you see jerry no no bruise? No. Bruiser, I think, did. I saw Fish in 98 for the first time. I was like 17.

Shit. Oh, the heroin years. Yeah. Van Andel. And then I saw a lot of shows. Was he like, that was when he was all fucked up? I don't think he was that fucked up yet.

I mean, at least not my perception. Van Andel. Oh, that's where they just did the Billy thing? Mm-hmm. So what is Van Andel? It's just an arena In Grand Rapids Like a little hockey stadium Or something

Yep And it was brand new In the late 90s So I was like I think they put there In 96 too And I didn't see on for that What's the deal with Michigan

Like what is the type of people Come out of Michigan I always feel like It's like kind of conservative But then there's some freaks Then there's like A beautiful lake So there's like

There's a lot of beautiful lakes Tourist people Come there Like What was like Your growing up in Michigan like freaks. Then there's a beautiful lake. There's a lot of beautiful lakes. Tourist people come there. What was your growing up in Michigan like? The lake, man. There's a lot of lakes. Michigan's great. Seek a pleasant peninsula. Michigan's

really important to me. It's not on the way to anywhere except Canada. Yeah. I grew up by the lake and I swam in Michigan daily. You used to play at the place The Do lake, and I swam in Lake Michigan daily. We used to play at the place, the dock, the Red Dock in Muskegon. Yeah, in Saugatuck. In Saugatuck. The guy hated me.

Tony. Tony, such an asshole to me. I loved him. He used to say, don't go changing. Is that near your house, hometown? Yeah, it's about an hour and a half. Saugatuck? Yeah.

Did you kind of make a living just doing all those fucking runs. When we first started playing we would just play up and down the west coast of Michigan. Traverse City, Grand Rapids, Mesquite,

and what was Bells? Oh, because you guys went to college there. Mm-hmm. Played Kalamazoo a lot.

Every other Thursday at Bells for a couple winters. Who were you what bands were you growing up with? Like playing with like got

there was a band in Michigan called Steppin' in it that I really adored and loved. Joshua Davis, my buddy that's in that band, and Dominic Davis, who plays bass for Jack White. Great like folk, sort of like old-timey songwriter. I learned a lot about songwriting from that guy, Josh Davis. And they were just a great frigging band. Isn't Jack White from Detroit?

Yep, him and Dominic grew up together. Do you ever meet him younger in his career? No, I've met him, but not when he was young. Just in passing. Who else is big? Oh, Eminem. Yeah, we got Eminem. Madonna.

Madonna's from Michigan? Yeah, like Sinclair Shores or something like that. I was at Detroit. Wow. Did you like, looking back, did you like living in Michigan? Or was it kind of depressing? I mean, as I got older, I thought Muskegon was a little sleepy. But that's why I was in the woods and on the beach every night,

doing hippie shit in the dark. There was nothing to go do public i couldn't go to shows and stuff like that it just didn't exist um but i was close to deer creek where i go see fish every summer which was fucking cool did you take when when did you start taking like hallucinogens pretty young really like what like how young like high school shut the fuck up yeah dude like we just trip dick and go to go like, on a Wednesday at high school? Yeah, man. I came out with a disclose.

My mom's watching, man. He's like, I knew it. I knew it. Those sad songs. She knows. I was naughty. Maybe she had an eye. I had to wake him up a couple times when the police brought me home.

Really? You got arrested? I got a bunch of curfew violations and shit when I was a kid. Hold on. Like, what? What happened? What are you doing? I Just being out too late. The kids in my high school in my town would go to the beach and have fires and party and stuff.

And the police would break them up. We all would get in trouble for it all the time. And you'd get caught. Yeah, and then they'd bring you home and go inside and wake your parents up. And I'm like, no, you do it. That's not nice. Everyone is like, all right. That's the worst.

Mom? Yeah, what is it? Someone outside wants to talk to you Oh that's That's more embarrassing than like Calling from jail I think I've done that too And I was like Yeah

For what I was like 12 years old And I was out with my buddy And we were gonna like TP this girl's house And we were riding our bikes On the side of the road And the police picked us up

Why They saw all the TP In your backpack We're just like 12 year old kids On the side of the road at midnight. And they're like,

what are you doing out here? And we're like, riding our bikes. And they're like, you can't be out here this late if you're this old. And I didn't even know. But my parents didn't know

I was out, you know. And they picked you up from... They picked us up, put the bikes in the cars, took us to the police station and to call my parents and come pick me up. So embarrassing.

Yeah, curfew violation. It was hilarious. But like getting in trouble, I never got, the police had bigger things to fry. But when your parents, when I got caught from my parents, like from being curfew, my mom would be. Because it's like embarrassing.

I think about it in a small town, it'd be even more embarrassing because everyone finds out about it. The whole town, it'd be even more embarrassing because everyone finds out about it. Yeah. The whole town. But it was all the kids. That's what the cops were doing to me. They were all getting MIP.

I never got an MIP. They were on the beach drinking. My friends and I weren't really drinking much when we were teens like that. Oh, shit. Is Muskegon like American Pie too? It's like a little beach town, a small community.

Sounds awesome. Suburby. So do people is the town quieter in the wintertime oh yeah because it's a resort town no it's not a resort town but it's like not at all it's kind of a sleepy lake town but it just you know oh winters are gray and snowy that's fucking awesome do you ever look at yourself and moving back to michigan with your family i don't think so no you're done i would and moving back to Michigan with your family? I don't think so. No, you're done.

I would love to go there. I would miss it if I didn't go at least once a year. I was just there recently swimming in the lakes and stuff. And it's like, that's just what I thrive on. But I don't want to live there anymore. It's a good little side house there. It's right ahead. My parents got a lake house there that maybe one day I'll live in.

Do they still come out to your shows? They do. Yeah. They still like it? They love it. Yeah. It's cool. They're very supportive. Yeah. Sorry, Mom. That's wild, Paul. That's like, what a fucking career. And you're still doing it. It's beautiful.

Through all the ups and downs, you know, employment changes, whatever, you guys are still happy and you're still doing it. And chain or employment changes, whatever. You guys are still happy and you're still doing it. And it seems like you're happier, you know, even with like the personal stuff,

you know, divorces and stuff and all the other wild stuff. And the heart, I thought that the Guido thing was going to be heartbreaking. And it probably was when he, cause I remember that last day. It was hard. Yeah.

Because we loved having him out. Yeah. Change is hard. Yeah. But you don't grow. If you hard, yeah, because we loved having him out. Yeah. Change is hard. Yeah. But you don't grow. If you don't change, you don't grow, right? Right. Is he like in St. Louis? You talk to him still? Yeah, I see him a bit. We keep in touch and we hang out still. He's a brother for life. Sick. So what do you got in store? Yeah, shout out to Guido.

Let's do one more clap for Guido. I know. I got a couple more questions. I'll let you go, Paul. This is great. I love getting to know you. We never get to do this. Yeah, we don't, man. This is great.

We're always with a group of people and we're all like, you know, when we're around people, we got to put on our fucking stage hat. Yeah, we're figuring out where we're going to see each other next before we even say goodbye. I know, exactly. So like, yeah, do you,

what do you, like, what about some advice to give like the younger bands to get through fucking ups and downs of and lefts and rights of being in a fucking band yeah you know and i you gotta just i mean i don't know what you gotta do honestly uh what worked for me i start to say that and i'm like you know what different things different things work for different people for us like grinding hard work we gained fans all over the place you know what? Different things work for different people. For us, grinding hard worked. We gained fans all over the place.

Daniel Donato's out right now. We just saw him the other day. He's on his 175th show already this year or something. That is intense grind. I can see it in his eyes. He's getting tired. I got to calm him down. I can see it working, though, too.

You get the name out. You give people access to the music. I don't know like hold yourself accountable to your own best that's what i always tell myself my best is good enough right exactly i you know it's like i just have to like do 250 shows yeah i did 250 shows a year for like 15 years or 13 years seriously yeah we Yeah. We never did 250. I would die. This is the first year I did 140. Holy shit. And I'm still tired.

That's a lot. I'm even more tired. Like, you don't have to say yes to everything. You don't. I think part of us feels like we need to

because you won't get the next gate if you don't say yes. Yeah. It's like the FOMO thing. Mm-hmm. Especially now with y'all with red light and stuff.

It's all new and shit. Aren't you with like Chris Stapleton's all new and shit like aren't you with like chris stapleton's manager exciting yeah he's a really cool dude yeah yeah zach is it what's the difference no just uh i mean it's a professional relationship from the beginning where the other one was a friendship that bloomed into business and i think that just makes it different from the get-go um now that i'm older and i've been in it longer the people that work for us, that I established a business relationship,

I become friends with them. Of course, we got a new tour manager who's great. And he took him on as a tour manager, as a business thing. Of course, I get along with the dude. He's a tour manager. He's in the biz. He's cool.

We're friends, but we weren't friends first. And I think they both work clearly, if you look at our organization. But it's nice to just have an appreciation for someone being good at their job and then then becoming friends with them yeah it's like uh we've built a relationship on everything becoming more personal than it should be sometimes yeah i feel so blue i feel so blue collar even just saying that last thing i put on my pants the same way everyone else does. I mean, it's like you were, that advice for the young fans, you know, the young bands

or whatever. Like if you got a buddy out there who loves you and wants to manage you and he's going to work harder for you than anyone else, let him. Yeah. You know, but just be careful. Yeah. I feel that way too. It's like bandmates too.

You ever had new bandmates? Only adding bandmates Never like replacing Damn no one's quit And we would kind of cycle through some bass players in the beginning When we were like an open mic band Yeah Like Duvall started in 04

And Honor started in 07 Holy shit When did Bruza? Bruza and Bont were playing an open mic When I saw them in the fall of 2000 Really? Yep Who's your closest

friend in that band? It's kind of changed through all the years in different ways. Now I hang out with our crew a lot. I love everybody. It's different things. Dave and I pretend to be brothers for a while. Bon and I got married the same summer.

You ever sleep on the crew bus? We only have one bus. That's even better. So at least it's like not everyone is stuck together. We got a real good brotherhood going on

out there I think. I love it. Yeah. You don't really need that many people in your crew right? We're like 12,

12 or 13 or something like that. Because like your in-ears don't really have, do you have like a stage, who do you have,

who's your stage manager? Our front house guys are our production manager. Sick. Oh, so. We have like a truck driver though and a tour manager and you know,

merch seller. Oh, you have a truck driver too? Yeah, we have a truck. You have a truck? Not like a semi. That's expensive. Yeah. It's better than a trailer though.

Yeah, it's true. Why? Yeah, more stuff, safer. Yeah. So someone drives right a trailer, though. Yeah, it's true. Why? More stuff, safer. Yeah. So someone drives right after the show? Similar timing. I don't know when he drives. So you guys both leave at the same time?

I don't know, to be honest. God bless your heart. I'm so anal. Thanks, Bubba. Let's go. My man's a real rock star. He don't need nothing. He don't need nothing.

Play the music. How do you do that? With all the business stuff and stuff, how do you just like still make your brain just focus on music? I need to figure that out. I pay attention to the business stuff a lot too. Yeah? I just don't know what time the truck leaves.

What do you, like you run the show? I'm pretty involved. Like what, budgeting and stuff? Kind of all of it. There's a type A behind this hippie profile. I know. I feel it, bro. I've felt it for years.

I'm like, I'm the same way, bro. I mean, we could be hippies, but we also could run some shit. Yeah, yeah, man. That's fucking hilarious. So because we're talking about type A, what do you have planned for Red Rocks? What's this weekend going to look like for the Green Sky family? All the bangers, man. I don't know.

We're going to try and do some different stuff. We play there a lot of times, and I want to make every year unique in some way, musically, visually. We did all that pyro and shit last year. That was sick. Did anyone hurt themselves? No, no. It was cool.

Is that expensive? I believe so. Did you have to have a fireman and shit? I think so. Did you have to have like a fireman and shit? I think so. Like a fire marshal? They had to test it and stuff. And we all sat there in the crowd when they tested it. And we're like, whoa, this is going to be interesting.

Shit's hot. It's hot? Was it hot on stage? Yeah, yeah. Sweating? Yeah. I'd be afraid of my fucking afro going up. There was all those like sparkly.

So how far away did they say you had to be they set it up like 10 feet in front of us that was so scary just like flames of it's loud too and then there were these like bangers that just go really loud good red rocks allows that yeah dude there's people do all sorts of shit they're lasersD. This is the first year you're not doing like, what's it, Dylan? Yeah, we did Dylan last year and stuff. You like that? Two shows instead of four? Is it less pressure?

I liked playing up the mountain. I thought it was kind of chill. That venue's really nice. They're not doing weekday shows anymore. Yeah, the neighbors are fucking pissed. Yeah, their property values are really great. And they have that awesome venue in their backyard. I'd be pissed too. Oh my God. Like, what the fuck? Why are and they have that awesome venue in their backyard. I'd be pissed too.

What the fuck? Why are they... It's so beautiful. I brought my kid up to Jason Isabel there last summer and stayed for the whole show. Drove home at 9.30. Isabel played there? That was like an underplay. He did that last year and then I think Red Rocks this year. I love that. The shows were done early. Brought my kid. We stayed for the whole show

and then drove home. Fucking love it. Loved it. I love it. Well, Hoffman, I can't wait to do Red Rocks with you. Dude, let's sing into each other's eyes. I can't wait. Yeah, we got to figure out what we're going to do. Let's not tell them. Something real romantic. Let's do something romantic. I mean, like, let me think about it, too.

I know you're busy with what... I can't believe you're like, you run the show. That's crazy. I don't run the whole show. We're a very democratic band. We're all very involved. Totally, but there has got to be a point. It's unanimity to a fault. They're like, here you go.

What do you mean you all have to agree? What idea that you thought was such a brilliant idea and everyone said, this is the dumbest fucking idea on the planet? For like any, like from the past Red Rocks, like, yo, we're going to parachute someone in and he's going to fucking do a Mando solo. This year I wanted to get a juggling grizzly bear. Oh my God. Maybe we'll find it.

I'm still looking. It's got to be out there. I think people would be entertained by that. Hell yeah. I was watching HBO has this new show called Chimp Crazy. It's like Tiger King, but a woman in Missouri who owns a bunch of chimps. And Pete is trying to take away her chimps. Because she used to do birthday parties with the chimps and bring the birthday.

I got to go check that show out. I love that shit. Now nature shows are my thing. But especially these chimps are older and retired and they're just eating McDonald's and shit. It's fucking so white trash. It's awesome. Oh, cool. So you heard it first.

We're having Chimp Party live at Red Rocks. So grab your tickets. Paul Hoffman, you're the best. Thank you, Fresco. I mean, you really are one of my favorite songwriters. I know I try to not fucking try to keep it cool with you. You write great songs and you're a really talented dude. And I know I have a close relationship with Bruza,

but I'd like to have a close relationship with you. It'd be great. My friend's cool. This is the beginning of a great thing. Thanks for being on the show. One last question. I'll let you go. Cause I,

last time we asked, I was with three people and I'd like to hear your new, uh, take on this, uh, since you're by yourself with me all alone, just us, just us. Um, when it's all yourself with me, all alone. Just us.

Just us. Um, when it's all said and done, what do you want to be remembered by? I want to be remembered for putting it all out there. All the heart being real. Yeah. Transparent.

Well, you're fucking doing it, Doug. Thanks brother. Oh, ah, Paul Hoffman. Thanks for being on the show. Thanks, brother.

You've just tuned in to the World Saving Podcast with Andy Frasco. Produced by Andy Frasco, Joe Angel Howe, and Chris Lorenz. Please help us save the world by subscribing and rating the show on volume.com, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you're listening so we can spread the word and save the show on volume.com, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you're listening so we can spread the word and save the world. Follow us on Instagram at world saving podcast for updates,

for tour dates, merch, and whatever crazy special event Andy thinks of next, check out andyfrasco.com. Special thanks to this week's guest, courtesy of our talent booker, Mara Davis. That's me, or Andy's other mother. Be your best, and we'll talk to you next week for another great episode of the World Saving Podcast. Fuck.

I always say, talk to you next week. But actually, you do see them next week because it's a video podcast. Terrible, terrible.