Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 316: Mike Campbell

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Andy and Nick are back and they're talking upcoming shows, body massage histories (in which the only happy endings are emotional), and the weirdly sensual appeal of trashy beach towns. But most importantly, we welcome the Ultimate Rock Star: Mike Campbell! Andy swears they met once when he was a kid… Was this a full-circle moment? Perhaps. Did Mike remember meeting Andy as a kid? Debatable. But the vibes: Immaculate. Come for a legendary interview with a real life Heartbreaker. Stay for the inappropriate oversharing. Suffering from aphantasia and need a visual aid to accompany your podcast? Well, fear not. We gotchu. Watch this episode now, exclusively on Volume.com We're psyched to partner up with those buddies of ours at Volume.com! Check out their roster of upcoming live events and on-demand shows to enrich that sweet life of yours. Call, leave a message, and tell us your opinion on Gilmore Girls: [phone]  Check out our new album!, L'Optimist on all platforms Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Produced by Andy Frasco, Nick Gerlach, Joe Angelhow, & Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Mara Davis

Wow. And we're live. Andy Frasco's world saving podcast. I'm Andy Frasco. How's our heads? How's our minds? Are we staying out of trouble? How's our hearts? I feel way better than last week. Yeah. Why is that? I don't know I think I learned a lot about myself through that Relationship therapist who we're gonna be posting next week and just like talking you guys out and I normally just keep it What are you looking at?

Watching you convince yourself Everything's okay. Everything is okay Convince yourself everything's okay. Everything is okay. Did you finally talk something out, Andy? I did, I talked something out with myself and I feel better, I do feel better. It's so weird when you're not communicating. Yeah?

I don't know, you don't communicate at all. I don't have anything to communicate to you people. What about the Julia? How's your relationship even like fucking sick? It's good. Okay. What about the Julia how's your relationship even like fucking sick? It's good If you never complained to them they think you're gonna be like, what do you guys she someone has a problem When someone has a problem, we address it you address it in a very calm and what are the some of the problems? She has with Nick Gerlach. Oh I'm too witty. My penis hurts because it's too big. She's too funny and she thinks it's great.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm too smart. It's intimidating being around someone that's smart. This is, this is. I take stuff too seriously all the time. I'm just kidding. Um we don't have a lot of like, but we don't really have blowout fights ever. No? Just address things immediately. Okay. She's the one with all this anxiety though. I know.

But you're not answering my question. You're being funny. I thought this was a goddamn. Jesus. I don't know. She just says don't do that anymore and I don't do it anymore. Okay.

I don't know. It's not that. What about, have you ever argued, are you ever mad at her? Not very often, she's pretty quiet. Okay. Jesus fucking Christ. The only thing I get mad at her about is like,

she just kind of... We got Mike Campbell on the fucking podcast today. No, I'm gonna finish my thought, I'm just trying to get there, he kind of sprung that on me. She's kind of OCD, so she kind of gets obsessed with things. It gets annoying when she keeps bringing something up. Like her thing of the day, you know? Okay. She's not that of annoying of a person. I don't know. Maybe. Anxiety. I think we just have a good relationship.

Yeah. I feel way better. We're very good at addressing. We're just good at adjusting problems. You know, some problems never get fixed and you just live with it. Yeah. We got Mike Campbell from Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers on the show we're talking I mean he had a hard life his his writing partner passed away mm-hmm and then one of his joint or one of his bandmates also passed away and he's just I've known him forever yeah you guys are pretty good close friends I noticed he didn't remember me, but I understand I'm sure I'm really close with his son Darien and we used to play music together and we used to play baseball together

He used to come over to Mike Campbell's house. What did Darien play bass? Sick bass. How come he was never in the UN? Too young. I didn't even know the UN was gonna exist back. Oh fair Oh, yeah, and also is like an emo kid. He was like a metal kid. It's like before you yeah, okay, but I used to love going to Mike Campbell's house just fucking Go into the trophy games and then and then you know seeing him and Tom just hanging out chilling. He's all Tom. Yeah I'm petty has a very unique look to them. Oh, yeah Yeah, I told you I was wondering why my dad would show up to the fucking trophy party

Where's my dad? He didn't go to one game all year He hasn't been no one. He went to games or soccer soccer But we were on the same baseball team to what position did you play in? really Yeah, I was fucking good at it. I like being the general. You're big too. I like being the point guard.

I was always second base in the little league. I was a really good catcher until everyone started pitching 80 miles per hour. Dude, it's so scary. Holy shit. Or when they're fucking, when that ball's moving, like a curve ball, and it's still 70 miles per hour, and you have to like, that shit was fucking scary.

I think an MLB catcher has to be one of the hardest jobs in sports. Yeah. But I think you're gonna love the interview. I was a little nervous and you know, he was, you know, he's a fucking ultimate rock star. So, you know, I tried my best. Blood from the stone, baby. I think I did good, right? Yeah, you did great. Okay. You're gonna love it.

I didn't say much. He's the guitar player of Tom Pitt. Heartbreakers. Yeah, I could tell when you're really trying to help me focus is when you don't say shit and you're like Yes, no, I know my play. I'm not gonna help if I talk. Yeah, it's called being a great co-host. Look it up I don't know. I'll clap to that. Sometimes in the words of Miles Davis, it's the notes you don't play. I need to talk about this because I just saw yesterday, Sturgill fucking Simpson. The Simpsons. What a fucking goat that guy is.

This guy was on the flu. He had a flu. He had to go to the hospital. That's what it was. Rip some steroids. It felt like Jordan in the flu game. Oh yeah. And he played for three hours, no break.

What's this thing? They all wore the same t-shirt. That's his band, Johnny Blue Skies. It's kind of like a... But, no break, singing his ass off. No break? No break for three hours. Damn.

Jack, have you seen Sturgill? Holy shit, we got Jack. He's one that he's running cameras He's basically he's running the show now. We're both casting We are here. He has our daddy and we will listen to him completely We're both Cavaliers fans, but Sturgill's that was one of the better shows I've ever seen I think it I didn't go I don't know why I didn't even think I couldn't I it was just amazing to see an admission Barman seems like he's so much bigger than it does seems like he should be like 11 But he said we want to play I was talking to Scott because Don Strasburg is promoter and like we just want to do

Cool rooms on this trip. We could probably do stadiums Stadiums, I think you do basketball. I was thinking like he could do like what's the fiddlers for sure that yeah Yeah, that's 14,000 dude, but he did did two nights yeah so he did he did 11,000 pretty gonna make it that boys gonna make it I like I was talking shit to the jam band kids too I didn't know he really ripped guitar like that yeah dude he's a monster remember he had the he's on Saturday live any of that killed horn section that was cool he's like I'm a songwriter that jams. I'm not a jam band. Hmm. I fucking love that Yeah, as soon as you say you're a songwriter, I know you're not a jam band

Oh, I got so hard when he said that this morning. I've got you love that Ah, you want to like you get it can't wait to hear your version of that and your next I'm gonna rip that off every night Yeah, I know you are I'm a songwriter my band jams. I'm in no damn jam band. Okay. I also get a southern accent. I mean, jam bands can't write songs. I will not comment on if I was in a jam band. That's what I would do. I would hear that we're a jam band and we don't write songs. We're going to get up here and jam for y'all.

They'd be funny. That would be funny. People would actually probably cheer for that. I was in Tampa. I, fuck. Beautiful Tampa. I kinda like how trashy it is. Me too, I love trashy places.

I love a trashy beach town. I'm from Indiana, bro. It's all we got is trash. Oh my God, I was talking to the locals. I'm like, what happened? Did you like rain? We're not I was like what happened the hurricane y'all leave like fuck no Would they stay where we supposed to go Gainesville? Yeah

I will not hang out my mother the Tampa Bay Rays are playing in like a Triple-a Stadium dude sick. I drove past that it's right across the street from the Buccaneer Stadium What's awesome love to see a pro team in a minor league. People are saying like it's like really been cool, a cool vibe. Yeah. Hear the whole crowd talking shit. Yeah. But the A's one looks bad, but the Tampa Bay one looks cool.

Also the A's one is for a dumb reason. Right. The Bay has a good reason. So I've been doing this thing where I just stay in the towns for a couple extra days. Just hang out. I saw you were playing some weird show. I got asked to do a private party. Little Stranger, their fan base is very culty

and it's kinda awesome. It's like real, I don't know man, they're just, you know they play a lot of the same songs and their fans will come out to every single show. That reggae scene, huh? Oh my God, it's unbelievable. They're a reggae band, so. I mean they're a really good band, but that was really crazy

They're not ready They get so pissed. I know not ready, but their whole fan base is reggae. I'm sorry. They are kind of a reggae They're not not right. I mean I guess they're not like John gets so pissed when I say they're not the whalers, but Everybody that goes to your I mean come on. Yeah,'re something. I will not comment on that as well. I'm commenting on it. You're kind of a reggae man, John. It's fine, you're making money. Shut up.

Well, I mean, it's sensible. Who gives a shit what people call you? True. That's true. Who gives a fuck? God, you've been just fucking speaking truth, knowledge the last fucking eight days. Unbelievable.

Who gives a shit? If you wanna buy tickets, you can call me Polka. I don't give a hell. You know me polka. I don't give a heck Yeah, he kind of coming to see me May 2nd. It's a Rontes. I'm opening for Victor Wooten again. Go see him Speaking to come to see me. I am I Am playing Copper Mountain April 25th, and then we're doing goose They've been asked me to promote the show Mexico Viva El Ganso and Cabo San Lucas Come on out

This is only this is the type of Mexico or travel show where you don't need to pay for the all-inclusive resort If you just want to go get an Airbnb. Yeah, you could do that. I know that yeah So come on out to Mexico. I'll be saving a little money on this tour I'm going back to fucking Toto Santos this weekend this week to all Saints. I'm like fuck. Oh, this is the problem Okay, I have to go to Mexico. Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. No Okay, so No, it's it's more of like I Don't have a control

Valve mm-hmm, even in Tampa when I I was like I'm gonna go for two days I'm gonna hang out in the airport hotel and I just I party and do drugs with the band. You gotta think about who you're hanging out with. Exactly. They're called enablers. Yeah. Little Strangers for sure enablers. Oh they were there. Yeah. I didn't know that they were actually there. I played their party. I thought you just like some of their fans hook something up and they you went no they played I just like was the guest appearance. Oh They like they do they could throw it down I'm like I can't even throw it down as hard as they can throw it down

I used to but now I'm warm. How are they 25 my age? Just in his late 30s. Yeah 34 I'm just kidding. John's in his late 30s? Yeah, 34. Yeah, he's way outter than you. So I'm like, fuck. Gotta take a breath. I'm like, I was shaking before I went into their thing.

I'm like, I know what's gonna happen tonight. I know what's gonna happen. Oh, I thought you meant something else. I thought you were shaking from that. But we did have fun and I love catching up with them. They're good boys. I like them. Yeah, they're the best.

I like Kevin and John. But I was hanging out with Cooney, you know, for the two days and just hanging out in Tampa. I really fuck with Florida, man. I could live there. There's certain parts of Florida that are amazing. Oh, yeah. Tampa, even Miami kind of gets a bad rep. That Naples is pretty cool. Yeah, even like even like the the sticks of Tampa. Broxville wherever we played. The sunshine, get down. People are hot there too. of a Brock'sville wherever we played. The Sunshine, Get Down, whatever.

People are hot there too. Fucking beautiful women and dudes. Even like the redneck dudes are kinda hot out there. Yeah, they're all skinny. Did you attend any stripping clubs? No, I don't fuck with that. Me neither, we talked about it. Why, Tampa's got good titty blood?

I guess that's what people say they have like the. Oh! Mm-hmm. Ah! People are saying that Tampa Bay has like a different strip club. It's like more like Everybody Goes. Oh, cool. It's like a vibe. Yeah, I think strip club. It's like more like everybody goes. Oh cool. It's like a vibe. Yeah, I think it's like the last call. Yeah kind of. I think it's like the equivalent of going to like the alley cab in Indianapolis.

That's cool. Yeah. Speaking of that, this endorsement, speaking of titty bars, this endorsement is by volume.com. Grab your subscription, Andy Frasco, and the UN subscription model, Only Frasco. For five bucks a month, you get a live stream a month from us, from the band. And what else? You get discounts on merch. I can't fucking think today.

Just sign up for it. You'll see when you sign up. It's five bucks, nothing's five bucks. We keep on adding more and more and we're gonna do the Mondays hanging out having coffee with me You can't even get a Chick-fil-A chicken sandwich for five bucks anymore Yeah, what's how much how much is merch these days or I just bought a $50 hat I'm like you could do the whole year of my subscription for I think if you do the whole year, it's 50. Oh, you get like a little discount Yeah, so it's 50 bucks a year. You get to go see us. You don't have to fucking travel.

You could just see us from your couch if you want to and head over there. It took for a good cause. It helps me keep these lights on on this studio. That he hung with care. So go to volume.com. So what are you doing this weekend? What do you do now? This week is pretty I might go see the motet. Oh, yeah, I'm just kind of getting ready for that gig and Put some rehearsals together working this that was nice That's my next gig. So this weekend I'll be you know, it's writing and I go see the motets 420 It's also Easter 420s on Easter this year, which is always funny

Oh, yeah, or 20s Easter Is that Hitler's birthday too? I think is this for 19 He was born on 930 p.m. It's also the date of the horrific tragedies what no Columbine Oh, really? Yeah a lot of horrible things happen on 420 yeah and Easter which is the day Jesus was well that's the day he came back I actually so that was a good thing well maybe he was you killed him on Friday good Friday you specifically but your people it was the Romans too but I think it was the I actually blame the Romans it It was all Romans. It wasn't Jews Let's not blame it all on the Catholic. I mean it was the Jews had a part in it

My Campbell my Campbell are is our guest tonight Tom Payne the heartbreakers the guitar player. He's I mean he's written so many songs for everyone helped work He worked with George Harrison He worked with the list of people he worked with is pointless to say a lot. Yeah, it's everyone You're gonna leave out Aretha Franklin or something. Yeah, he's a major rock star Yeah, you know his co his partner in crime passed away Tom Petty who we all love and yep just to hear him Hear the stories and he's got a new memoir book that he's promoting just to hear the stories. And he's got a new memoir book that he's promoting.

And I hope I did the energy justice. Because this guy's a rock star. And he has so many hits and he's kind of shaped my, he's no one. He is cool as shit. He's 75 years old. Yeah, he looks so cool. He had sunglasses on,

but it wasn't like, pretentious somehow. Yeah. When are you gonna do your memoir? I don't know. Relics, the editor of Relics keeps asking me to do it. He gotta be at least in his 50s. I gotta be, yeah, I still need, I need to go through a drug addiction and the combat.

I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. You gotta headline Red Rocks before you write a memoir. Yeah, yeah. Or like get my own radio show. Hell yeah. The Andy Fresco Hour. Hey guys, this is Andy Fresco, 94.3 The X. I don't listen to music, but here's some music my friends told me is good. Yeah, my friends told me I should play this song, so here you go. I only listen to my own song.

Or songs that sound like mine. Here we go, 4579. 4579. I wanna be a fucking radio show host so bad. Or songs that sound like mine. Here we go. Four five seven nine I want to be a fucking I love it's so funny. I had to do my my callouts for on someone's couch yesterday What oh I got my fucking have you ever gotten your lymph nodes drained drained? Lymphatic drainage or something. I don't even means, Jack? You know what that word? Where they drain your fucking... What do they drain out of it? They drain all the shit from like the toxins that your body holds. Your lymph nodes kind of filter your body.

I know, but what do they do? How do they do it? They were just doing some weird... Massage thing? Yeah, moving my fluids and my face down through. It felt so good. Who did this? This some guy.

Darren, this is the first time I ever got a forehand massage. This girl Sierra, it was crazy dude. Like as a tennis? It was two people. Oh, forehand. Forehands. Yeah. I was thinking like forehand.

Just like Pete Sampras instead of backhand. You know what I mean? Oh. Yeah, there was thinking like forehand. I just like Pete Sampras and set a back hand But it was unbelievable in Denver no at Tampa Oh before you left. Oh, yeah I wish I had the plug but I'll do the post I'll put in the book. It work It was the most amazing thing I've ever had the best I know a lot of people a lot of massage people, they just like, like professional lotion putters, honors, you know, it's not like you're not getting a massage, just getting fucking lathered up. Yeah.

I fucking hate that. I've never gotten a professional massage. They were fucking good, man. Never heard on it. You should get one. I think you'd like it. I don't know. Actually, you wouldn't like it.

I don't like people touching on me like that. You have to like kind of get naked in front of them. I know you're so insecure about that shirt. Yeah I don't really like taking my shirt off in public. No I've never seen you without a shirt on ever. I've never seen you with shorts. I don't own shorts. Or just short shirt. I wear short sleeve shirts sometimes. I have great forearms. Okay. I don't own a pair of shorts or sandals. But it was so good. They drained me. It was my glands as well. I could do a massage waist up though. I'm not, I don't like when they rub in your butt. I like the head massage. That sounds good. It was tight. I could do the happy ending probably. I've never had a happy ending. Have you ever had a happy

ending massage? No, I've never had a massage. Jack. Have you ever had a happy ending massage? No I've never had a massage. Jack have you ever had a happy ending massage? He's like no comment, no he's like I'm a married man. I'm a married man. Don't fucking tell me. He probably actually hasn't he's a pretty good guy but uh I think they should do it at the beginning. It's so gross hearing Gonzo fucking talk about uh happy endings. Dude he's like uber eating. He loves the happy like Uber. He loves the happy. Gonto loves the happy ending. I'm like, I can hear you. What the fuck? He keeps talking about guys are going to go clean the van and then go get happy. OK, dude, the Wednesday special out there and it's half off there on federal. I got my seventh punch called.

We're going cold free one yeah But by six get one free, but kind of though. He's so open about it to know Feel like you don't can't that's not something you should be open about no You know, maybe it would be okay with the massage cuz I've done the chiropractor. I guess I say that then I talk about like Having sex with a hooker. You didn't have sex with a hooker, did you? I had sex with one hooker in China. China. And it was the weirdest thing.

Yeah, you didn't like it. I did not like it at all. So it doesn't really count then. It was the weirdest thing ever. Also other countries, stuff that happens in other countries doesn't count. I thought that's like the cool place to do it. But it wasn't.

It felt like Rush Hour 3. What do you mean by Rush Hour 3? Oh yeah, I forgot about that scene. They made us all get naked in a fucking. But it wasn't. It felt like Rush Hour 3. What do you mean by Rush Hour 3? Oh yeah, I forgot about that scene. They made us all get naked in a fucking spa. Oh yeah, you've told me this. And then, you know, I'm just naked with a couple of my homies and I'm just seeing how big all their dicks are.

And they're just like, their dicks are just like swimming in the water like an anaconda. It's just like so, it looked like a berry. You're over that small of a dick? It grows. Well everybody's dick grows. Not my bands! Those things are fucked. If it's growing that big! Maybe it is. Oh I got it. That's how the human body works. Ah you know I keep it you can't have it all. I can't have it all. Yeah or any apparently. But it was just a weird experience like they pulled out Tickling my asshole and showing people in other countries are way too comfortable being naked together. Yeah, stupid be American Yeah, every time I'm in a sauna in him in in like Germany. Yeah, they don't care. They're very they're hot They're uncircumcised hogs and they're just like don't shave anything

They're very they're hot. They're uncircumcised hogs and they're just like don't shave anything Yeah, they're just out there like the four dude. They're very very comfortable very comfortable. I'm out there my boxers Just looking at a wall not looking at them. They're trying to talk to me like so as America Have you seen that scene in Bruno you watch Bruno I love that shit where the dick is swimming Oh, yeah, yes, it points at the camera in the dick mouth goes Bruno. Yeah, that's why I felt like it was in a sauna I wonder why Americans are so uncomfortable. Well, we come from we're prudes come puritans It is a nation founded by puritans, but they kind of have a point We don't need to see but even like how they're like banning porn in all these different states on the red states Yeah, it's fucking crazy. You gotta put your porn in all these different states. On the red states, yeah.

It's fucking crazy. You gotta put your ID in now to masturbate. Yeah. I fucked, I told you about the OnlyFans thing, right? When I accidentally, I was in Florida. Do you know about this? I tell you this. I go, alright, we'll cut this if I have to.

You know, I was in fucking Arkansas and they're like, you have to show your ID to watch porn. So I'm like, I'm not fucking putting my ID in a fucking system so they know what I'm jacking off to. No, that's too much data. Yeah, so I went to OnlyFans my first time, and just like, I didn't realize, if you subscribe, you subscribe for monthly.

And I just beat off once, you know, came, forgot about it. Three months later my business manager said, hey Andy, did you realize you have $750 in OnlyFans.com? Oh, cuz you thought you were just buying like a one-time. One-time thing, but I bet $750 on a band account. So you actually subscribed to like probably 15 of them. 100%. And then they're just recurring. I wonder how much money they make off people

just forgetting about this. 100%. Like HBO Max. Yeah. They just have all these people that don't even use it. Exactly. They're running money off of it. It was such an embarrassing talk.

It is kind of like the most ethical porn though, OnlyFans. Yeah, I guess. Not owned by some weird guy. I feel so much better since I've not been beating off. Yeah, they say that about people, but you don't want to never beat off, do you? I mean, I'm just not doing it because I have to go to bed. You know, like a change to my brain format.

I'll do it like every now and then. Every three, four times a day, whatever, whatever. All right, guys, enjoy Mike Campbell. He's going to love that opening. He's not listening to this. He's definitely not listening. He's writing songs. Writing songs.

Some famous person. Margot Price or something. Yeah. Shout out to Margot, she's actually badass. Alright guys, enjoy Mike Campbell and we'll catch you next week where you get to find out all about how fucked up my relationship life really is. All right, goodbye. It's bad.

It's bad, it's bad. It's bad. Yeah. Hey Mike, sorry about that. So. That's okay. I don't know if you probably won't remember this, but I am, I was one of Darien's close friends in elementary school and middle school and we were on the same baseball team and we used to go to your house for

all the trophy, the trophy games and I was always wondering I always wonder why my dad wanted to come like oh shit he's in the Heartbreakers and me and Darien was gonna we're in the we've been playing bands together and I'm still I'm in a band that's like my my main career and I just want to say this is an honor to have a full circle moment with you on this. So thanks for taking your time. Thank you. So I was wondering, you know, the memoir is amazing. So many different things about the relationship you had with Tom, the relationship you had with other people. I first want to talk about what was your relationship like with Bob Dylan? Well, I consider him a friend. I don't know if he considers me a friend, but he considers anybody a friend

Yeah, is he a dick or what? What is he like is he like? Like he doesn't want people he doesn't allow people into his life like closer in his life Well, you know, I can't speak for Bob really but I think he's annoyed with all the attention and all the expectations people have of him. So he maybe puts up a shield of he doesn't want to get too intimate with people if he doesn't know them or they're approaching him like he's some kind of God or something.

Right. My take on it. So what, what, tell me about the story about when he, when he came to your house with the Great Dane, like, and had a moment with your dog. I was curious about that. Like what, what was, what was the situation like there? Well, he pulled up in a Cadillac convertible with a great gang and My dog was a Newfoundland that had just in the backyard had just been in the pool and running up and Jumped into Bob's car all wet

He was cool with a dog That's a big you had a big dog too Yeah, he was pretty big gray boy was his name his name? Good dog. Why was he coming over? You guys writing together? We wanted to try and write some songs and then first thing he did was ask me if I had any lyrics. You got any guitar licks? Well, I was kind of counting on you for that. It didn't work out, but we did end up writing a song called Jammin' Me with Tom. It turned out pretty good.

What are the different processes between writing with like Bob Dylan or writing with Tom Petty? I mean, like you guys are so close. Maybe a better example, like when you're writing for other people, what's the difference between how you approach songwriting in a session versus like just being with your boy? It's always the same.

I don't really write for other people. I write for myself. And when I was in the Heartbreakers, I would write sometimes with them in mind, in the back of my mind. But the writing process to me is not about creating boundaries on it just you know I just write for what pleases me and then if it turns out someone else likes it that's a bonus. So what what records do you think weren't pleasing you but you still had to finish them? That were not pleasing me? Yeah like you

know when you're in the studio process and you feel like this isn't... Oh hundreds of them. They pile up like coke cans in the garbage can. You know this is like I write all the time so a lot you know one out of ten might be good. Sometimes if I'm lucky I'll'll get a handful out of ten songs. But I just don't worry about it in the process. I write the song that's happening in my head the best I can. And if it's not a Grammy winner, then so be it. Have any songs you thought were just pieces of shit

that actually became one of the biggest songs? None of our songs were pieces of shit that actually became one of the biggest songs. None of our songs are pieces of shit. I mean to be honest with you, none of them are. Some of them are just better than others. Yeah, so you know that's what I'm thinking like in your head like you're feeling like it's not... This isn't the hit. This isn't the hit. If it feels like that I don't do it. Oh really?

You know what happens though, not that doesn't happen but sometimes I'll be writing something and I think it do it. Oh really? You know if I feel a little dizzy. You know what happens though, not that doesn't happen, but sometimes I'll be writing something and I think it's a genius, and then I'll look up and I'll go, oh fuck, it sounds just like you really got me or something. Oh right. Oh yeah.

I've subliminally copied somebody without realizing it. What do you do, has any like situations happen like that or people try to sue you? Well you throw it out, start doing something else. You do that before you put it in. There's plenty of other songs to pick from. I don't want to get plagiarized or be accused of it.

Yeah, that brings me to a good segway. You talk about like you're down on your luck during Boys of Summer and then hearing that song on the radio really changed your perspective. What was going on in your life then? Well I was just overextended with my mortgage really basically. We had a couple of tours booked up and I found this house that my wife loved and it was a little in range but just barely and then the tours got pushed back and I was a little in dire straights for a minute there. Yeah And the accountant was saying well, maybe you should just sell the house and rent for a while and my wife says no fucking way Don't take away don't take away a musician's dream

So she stood behind me and then that happened, you know, it's like a miracle like my whole life's been a miracle Hey Katie, would you hand me that pipe, you know, it's like a miracle. My whole life's been a miracle. Hey, Katie, would you hand me that pipe, please? Well, so, talking about that, you know, you've been with your wife for, before you even got famous, how important is she towards the growth of Mike Campbell? She's huge, you know, and like you said, we met, I was a nobody.

She was making more money than I was, and I had very few options. I was working with Tom, but it wasn't happening. And I was just a starving musician, and she connected with me anyway without any of that window dressing. So as the years went on and I became the mega rock star that I am. Yeah, fuck yeah. Hell yeah. I mean, it's true.

You are. I knew that she saw me as the little boy that she met, you know? And so that's very valuable. Was there any moments in, what was the hardest part of like, what were the years where it's like you thought you're going to lose her? Well the hardest part was early on when the Heartbreakers started touring. We went to Europe several times. You know, we'd be gone for six, eight weeks.

Yeah, she'd be home with the baby, you know, and that was really hard on her and me, but mostly on her, you know, I'm out, you know, playing in a rock band doing whatever I'm doing. And she's home, you know, nursing the baby and changing diapers. And I come home, we should we don't even recognize each other. You know, we don't we have to get to know each other again in a way because we've lived separate lives for a little while. And I give her credit for sticking with me through all those years. It was tough. And then, of course, later on, when I had some money, she would always come with me.

She still comes with me now. Oh, that's cool. Oh, that's great. You know, it's you know, I've been doing I've been in the band not as long as you,, I've been doing, I've been in the band not as long as you, but I've been doing 250 shows a year. Nobody's been in a longer band than me except maybe Keith Richards. You know, what advice can you give me about turning it off? You know, when we're so addicted to this idea of moving and moving and moving, when we get home, is it hard for you to transition back

into that other type of life? Or how do you, what advice can you give someone like me who's been on the road 10 months a year and I have to turn it off or I'm, you know, I'm not gonna make it. Well, be true to yourself, you know. Remember what's important, what's really important? you know music the like music lifestyle on the road and all that can be an

illusion, you know that everything is four-star hotels and people screaming your name and yelling at you and traveling and you can lose track of you know, what's really important which is love and Family and your well and your own, you know mental health, you know, what's really important, which is love and family and your well, and your own mental health, you know, you need to, if you're asking for advice, I would say if you're traveling that much, you know, uh, be careful to stay healthy, get lots of sleep, read, read a lot, uh, eat well, and stay in touch with the people back home. Yeah.

You ever get into hard drugs? No, I did some blow, you know, and some speed in the eighties. I never did heroin except well, once we snort, we all smoked it once with Howie. Yeah. We cut the song spike. We're all on heroin on that song. Really? But you're smoking it.

You know, I didn't and Drinking, you know, my stomach told me pretty early on like it didn't like that So I wasn't able to become an alcoholic and I never I don't know I liked Drugs a little bit when I tried them out But then I just got like well, this isn't really working for me. You know, it's making me unhappy as opposed to happy. So I just walked away from it. But some people can't do that. I understand that now it's a disease for some people.

Yeah. It wasn't for me. Yeah. What was it? A disease for anyone in your band? Yeah. Howie. Yeah.

For sure. He died. Yeah. How hard was that? I didn't understand it at the time. I was angry with him. Like, get your shit together. You know, we got stuff to do and he was all out of it.

And now I understand it because I've been through Almanan and this and that and I understand that it's a disease. It's not just necessarily a choice for some people. So I wish I'd have been more sensitive to him at the time. It is what it is. Yeah. How are you approaching that when you're seeing your best friend kind of just dying?

Well, it's hard, you know? You just, I was, if I had been, if I understood the program, I would have been more supportive of him and I would have got in there and helped him go to meetings and sat and talked with him. But at the time, I was just mad at him like, you know You know wasted you know, we're laying you were giving you a great gig here and you're fucking things up

What's wrong with you? You know, I didn't get it, you know I was arrogant about it and I can't I slightly regret that but it's his problem You know, he had to deal with we took the band sent him to rehab several times. We tried to support him But he was on a mission and there he went. Right. And like, yeah, and we forget that it's a disease. Like some of us don't have that, don't have that in us. But I see it with a lot, you know, we see people on the road. My question is who was the band leader to slap him into sense? Or was he, were you all just, was it kind of like a democratic thing, the My question is who was the band leader to slap him into sense?

Or was he, were you all just, was it kind of like a democratic thing, the Heartbreakers? Or was Tom like? Tom was the leader of the band. But it was a benevolent democracy. Or benevolent, benevolent. That's correct, yeah. Whatever, anyway.

Yeah, you got it. Tom was leader of the band. And we all tried to talk to him. But we weren't, we didn't have the tools or skills to help him properly. We did send him to rehab, like I said, and it's tough. I just didn't understand it.

I wasn't able to really, I couldn't have saved him. He was on a death wish. He was going down that path, no matter what I said. What do you see in signs of that you couldn't save him? Like what was he doing throughout the? The last couple years that you're like, oh, he said to me once he said You know my both my parents died in their 40s and I'm not gonna live past my 40s so he had this thing in his head, yeah, and he got sucked into the hard heroin and His teeth started falling out.

His face started, you know, dripping, dripping and his bottom lip was like, you know, it was a slow thing. So you didn't notice it overnight. But then after a while, you go like, this guy's not well, you know? Right. And I don't know what you're asking me, but it was just hard. Yeah. Well, I'm asking like, yeah, it's like, because you know, I've watched band members go through drug problems and I'm like trying to figure out a way

because you can't help them. They have to help themselves, but you have to be supportive, right? Well, it's up to them, but the best thing you can do is be kind and understanding and compassionate. I learned that in Al-Anon, you know, like you said.

What helped me understand it was, it's like if somebody had diabetes and they were dying from it and they wouldn't take their medication, you could tell them, well, you gotta take the medication or you're gonna die, you know, it's a disease. And now I understand that. They aren't capable of dealing with it because it's, they're sick.

Right. And I'm not a doctor. I'm just, I could be a friend, but you know, it's like the guys, whoever it is, guy, girl, they got to hit the bottom and then realize like, you know, it's up to me to pick myself up or go down the hole. Yeah. You ever had any? I don't want to talk about this that much.

Yeah, it's okay. We don't have to. Um, you ever had anyone talk about this that much. Yeah, it's okay. We don't have to um you ever had any near-death experiences I Had let me think about that I had two yeah The first one of the first time we went to Hawaii Stan goes let's go surfing you know so I grab I had my t-shirt on I grabbed a surfboard I'd seen it on Beach Boys albums. You know I thought I'm into it I got out there in a Honda lay, I'd seen it on the Beach Boys albums, you know, there's nothing to it. I got out there in the Hanalei,

and I got caught in a set of waves, and it took me under. I mean, every time I'd come up for breath, boom, down again. And I thought that was it. I remember the last time I came up, I looked around, I thought, well, this is a beautiful place to die,

but I'm not gonna make it. And then Stan was able to push my board to me, and I grabbed onto that. And so I definitely saw my life make it. Wow. Stan was able to push my board to me and I grabbed onto that. And so I definitely saw my life pass before my eyes. Another time was in the 80s when I was dabbling in some amphetamines. I thought it was coke and it turned out to be amphetamines. I shut my stomach down and went in the hospital. And I was in there

for you know four or five days. They had the tubes in me and everything and they said oh you've got pancreatitis which I didn't and it was just a an incident you know because and I did did it cross my mind well I may not get out of here. When you when that is happening what do you what are you visualizing when those last near-death experiences? Well, you're regretful. You're regretful. Actually, there was another time that I had a near-death experience.

Back in Gainesville, I took some bad acid when I was a kid, and I thought I died. I literally thought I passed into another dimension. I'm not in my world anymore, and I'm never gonna see my parents again. This is another world I'm gonna live in now. But the thing that hit me, and it's hit me every time, is my music. Damn it. I don't get to do my music. I don't get to take it where I wanted to go. I fucked up. And so it was always kind of that was in the

back of my mind. If the music is so strong and the love of my wife and my family that that's more important than my selfish needs. You know, this is getting kind of deep. Yeah. Sorry. Let's, let's talk about some music, but, uh, you know, I'm just very, you know, I've just, uh, I've been over your house a lot when I was in elementary school and writing songs with Darien and like, I never got to get to know you, but we've always just been in your studio in the Valley.

And just like, I've just been a part of that. It was just like, I'm just very fascinated. You're a hero. You're a hero to me. I mean, you're one of the reasons why I play music. I don't remember you saying, sorry, you say there's a lot of teens coming and going in all states of anenebrium. No worries, man.

No worries. So tell me about the music. How did you and Tom meet and how did you guys realize you were destined to be together? Well, it was just a feeling, an understanding, a vibe. We met at a house I was living in, and they were looking for a good drummer, and they needed a guitar player. I came and sat in with them. And just instantly it was like, I know you.

You think just like me, you want the same things I want, and you like the same music I like. And we were just stuck. It just happened instantly. We were joined at the hip, as they say. Yeah, what was the first song you guys wrote you felt like damn? This is this is a connection

Her song that we ever wrote was I think a song called tough wrote a hoe Back in Gainesville and everything never came up, but it was a pretty good song I wrote some chords, and he wrote the words to it Without that girl. It's a tough road a hoe that was the punch line That tough road a hoe that's a tough road a hoe that was the punch line that tough road a hoe that's a southern colloquial colloquialism is that the word and phrase yeah yeah yeah that was you know we started dabbling with songwriting he was already writing songs in his own I was just kind of making up chords I didn't have concept of lyrics or anything yet and we just we just you know I think we both saw on each other

this guy can make me better yeah you know that guy can help me go places that I can't go on my own and you think that's what was in boss yeah what was the moment you finally found thought you're famous? Hmm. Am I famous? I think you're one of the goats. You're famous in this podcast. You're one of the goats to us. Famous. God, I never even thought about that. Probably when we played Madison Square Garden after Torpedoes was out and we started playing bigger gigs. I remember going to the sound check at Madison Square Garden and playing Street fighting man on the guitar. Yeah in that room. Oh, wow. I'm okay now. I've made it

What's the difference between playing arenas what's your approach on the set playing arenas versus playing like club shows? In those. Well, for the Heartbreakers, it became play the hits, you know? Right. And it kind of narrowed the set down quite a bit for most of the bigger gigs, especially because there's so many people that have paid so much money to come and they want to hear what they want to hear. And you don't want to go out there and drop a new a bunch of new like jazz exploration and D on them

you know so we would feel a responsibility to play the hits and those venues the smaller venues you could make get away with changing the setup a little bit right but it's basically you know it can be like ten people or 300,000 people you're up up there, you're doing your thing. Right. You know, if you can see their faces, that's great. If it's just a mass of humanity, that's a whole other thing, but you're still just playing your song.

Did you, what was the, how was, did the writing change when you started playing those arenas or was it always the same philosophy? The writing? Yeah, the writing. Like, were you writing for arena big, big choruses? No, no, no, no. I never did that. I never write for anything. Cool. Except the moment I'm in. Yeah.

You know, I never think that way at all. What about nowadays when you're writing? Same. Same. Yeah. I wrote a song this morning just cause I felt like I wasn't thinking about the Heartbreakers or the Dirty Knob's or Don Henley or anybody. I was just thinking about this thing is coming to me

and see what it is. That's the way I write. Yeah. I don't have boundaries. The, you're one of the reasons why I quit school. I saw Dirty Knob's played the baked potato and it was one of the greatest experience because I got to be this close and the baked potato is such a great it's a small room. Yeah. It's tiny. Yeah. So why did you

want to do that? We played a bunch of new songs we've never played since we were just we had a bunch of songs we just learned and we went in and just threw them threw them down. Yeah so uh my question is like you know you're you write for the day, you write for the moment. So how do you pick your favorite 12 for a record? Well, that's a good question. This new record, the Dirty Noms record, we've just almost finished it, our fourth record. We went in for two weeks, we ended up with 20 great songs. So we're now trying to let go of the ones, we like them all, and try to find 10 or 11

that kind of have a flow and an arc to them and say something and save the other ones for something else. Sometimes the sequencing of a record will help you realize what stays and what goes. Or if you've got too many songs in the key of A, you've got to put some other stuff in there. Right, right, right. I like that too. What's your philosophy on sequencing?

What? What's your philosophy on sequencing? Like song order. Sequencing, well sequencing to me is very important. Of course nowadays, I guess it's a long art because people are all into their quick fix, Instagram or whatever, social media, pick a song here and there. But in my day, I learned to make albums.

I still think of it that way. It's a program. And it has a start, it has a build, it has art, like a set, a live set. You start out, you grab them, and you kind of flow around, you peek out, you mellow down a little bit, and you take them out strong. So I look at the sequencing of an album

the same as you would think of a set, a live set. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're a live band, and so what's... But also you're a fucking record band. Yeah, they're kind of just good at everything. Yeah. Mike, you are the goat. So what was the first record,

what's your favorite record of the heartbreaker experience? First one. First one. Why? Because we were finding, it was that moment of discovery. You know, we were struggling, we didn't know what we were, we didn't know if people would like us. We didn't know how we were going to sound.

On that first record, especially on songs like American Girl and Breakdown, American Girl was the one where I just thought, this is our sound. We hit on a harmonic between the guitars and a vibe and a character in the singing and exuberance and we discovered it right then like this is us. Nobody else can do this like quite like we can do it. And so when I hear that record, I hear that kinetic discovery in it. Later on, it became more refined art, so to speak. But that has a that has to like a kinetic

Fizzle to it, you know, that's exciting. Like these young guys are just figuring it out as we're hearing it, you know Yeah. Yeah, what's the difference between working with the heartbreakers and working with like George Harrison? Oh Well It's very similar it's a a high bar, strong songs, striving for perfection. I guess that's the only way I can answer that. What was George like? George was great. You know, George was one of the nicest people I ever met.

He liked me for some reason. We got along really well. And we played guitar a lot together. We talked a lot together and he was very kind to me and big hero of mine and I miss him terribly. Yeah a lot of death in your life how you approach that Well, you just hang on I'm at the age now for every other week. wife goes, so and so just died. It's closing in on us now.

Yeah. What's your take? Death is just a, it's a process. I mean, you know, one way to deal with that I've found it helped me deal with losing friends is my pets. You know, I've had many dogs over my life and when your dog dies, it hard you know but it you kind of learn the process we say goodbye and you appreciate them for what they gave you and then you grieve and you feel sad and then you go ahead you know being grateful for what you got and not sad for what you lost so that's the way I try to look at it you know hope and redemption yeah What's your fascination with animal rescue? Well, my wife, I just

love animals. My wife and I were brought together through an animal and we've always had pets. We have, you know, like four dogs, 25 chickens, two pigs, a turkey, and we have two goats in Hawaii. I just love animals. You know, they're, they're, they don't, they don't judge you, you know, and they have two goats in Hawaii. I just love animals. They don't judge you, and they have a lot of love, and they teach you a lot about yourself, about how to be kind and stuff. And my wife started a business many years ago called Bow Wow Bungalow.

She sold it now. But her partner was involved in animal rescue and they became friends and so we now help them. It's called the Tassie Fund. We help them when we can with fundraising and this and that. And what that does is it helps dogs that need surgery and the people can't afford it or we try to place dogs. I'm not hands on involved. I'm kind of like a distant supporter, but they try to connect dogs with soldiers with PTSD that needed support. These dogs are great support. They just give you unconditional love

and they can help you through grief and stress and things like that. So that's what that's about. How do you approach like loving an animal and loving your family? Is it the same approach? Well, I guess. Love is love. Yeah.

It won't fade away. I asked that because how hard was it to raise kids while being on the road so much? That's hard, I mean it was hard. I was away from them, I would come back and they were, six inches taller and reading books and shit. Last time I saw them they were in diapers. And I had to get to know them again in the early days. But later on, as you saw with Darien,

I used to go to a lot of games with the kids, support the girls in their ballet and their this and that. I mean, I went to tons of baseball games with my daughter, softball and Darien, through the mid rally league and then over at Crespe. He was on a team there. West Hills baseball too. Oh, West Lake. Yeah. Yeah.

So what was your question? My question is like, you know, I was like, I'm afraid to have kids. I'm, you know, I'm year 15. I feel like it'll heal me. And I'm afraid to have a commitment because I don't want it to ruin my career. I just have some advice on how important family is to help you settle down. Well, you know, the old wise one here will tell you. The right relationship and the right family people will enrich your career.

Right. Now, and they will pull you away from when you're sucking up on your own ass with your career. They'll pull you back to love and reality and perception and perspective, and it will enrich your art. That's my two takes on it. Love is love, you know, and there's nothing better. And love of a dog, wife, your children, and having children is scary.

I was scared to death too, you know, but in a way, it's kind of a leap of faith. But I wouldn't be so concerned about, oh, it's going to take away from my career. Well, no, it won't. It will only help your career if it's the right person. My wife supported me when I was, you know, lost in myself, you know, creatively. She supported me. It's good to have someone that believes in you, you know. It helps you be better.

When were you lost in yourself? Oh, just at different times over, you know, I might get fed up that I think I suck. My songs suck. I can't play the guitar. You know, I'm a loser. And she would just go, shut up. You're good. You know, you're good.

Mike Campbell. I feel way better about myself. Mike Campbell thinks he's a loser. It's called the tortured artist effect. Was Tom like that? I think all artists are. Yeah, I'm sure.

We all have our insecurities. And doubt. And you put your art out and it's judged by people. They like it, they don't like it. And if they don't like it, you feel like shit. And if they like it, you feel like the king of the world. So you're kind of like, you know, read them and weep.

How did Tom take success? Well, I don't know, you'd have to ask him. That's true. I never asked him how you're taking success, Tom. Yeah. He did pretty well. You know, he was a strong guy, but you know he

he didn't like all the attention you know he didn't like the loss of anonymity he didn't like you know trying to go somewhere and having a much people want to talk to him or tell him how great he was he got sick of that yeah what about you what about you was happy to be successful I mean success is fun. Yeah, it is. And the money doesn't hurt either. Nice to hear someone actually say that. Yeah. What about you? Do you like success?

I love it. Yeah. Well, I'm lucky because I'm not like Tom. I'm not a visual magnet. Tom, because of the way he looked and his aura, he would attract people that were starstruck. I don't get that. I'm kind of the sideman kind of thing. I'm in the back.

I get people come up to me when I'm on tour and they're really sweet and nice, but they don't hassle me and I don't get bothered by it. So it's very enjoyable for me. Yeah. I'm like, I know we don't have much time. So I'm kind of I want to I'm really curious about this Mick Jagger knocking on your door story What happened

well, Rick Rubin was doing a record with Mick and Mick was looking for songs and Rick had heard this demo of mine, which eventually became you wreck me. Oh my god It's one of the past ones. And my mom was out here in California at my house that week and there's a knock at the door and there's Rick Rubin and Mick Jagger. And my mom was like, oh, Mick Jagger. He was very gracious to her and we came into the studio, put the track on just the music and he jumped up and started doing the whole thing you know and I thought oh he digs

it you know he did dig it but then nothing came of it so he said you know he can't he told me he couldn't write unless he can dance to it you know so he jumped up out of the chair and was moving around it's pretty exciting I like those guys yeah well how did you have a close relationship with Mick after that or? Well, no, I don't have a relationship with him at all. Oh, yeah I was just one time I met him at rehearsal in New York once and then I met him at my house that day I haven't you know, I'm not a social person and I don't think think he misses my friendship Maybe he does and he hasn't reached out. No, I think he's doing fine without me.

He seems like he has a pretty rich social life. He just got engaged. Yeah. So you miss me? I think I'll know how that's gonna go. Yeah. Who is this? You know, let's talk about like newer, newer artists. And, you know, we're, I really love Margo Price. And I know you have a nice relationship with Margo and what do you see in her? She's a spitfire. She's a firecracker.

She's a rocker. She's a country girl. And she's a down home person. You know, we connected as people, her and her husband, Jeremy, They're just nice people, you know yeah, there were like-minded in terms of family and career and stuff and I Like the way she sings. It was fun to have someone good to sing with me on that first record. Yeah, right I've done some gigs with her here and there and Chris Stapleton. I've done some gigs with him and

I consider them friends. Yeah, you ever write a song with Chris I Did there's a song on his record or one or two one called Arkansas that we wrote and another one there was another one that I co-wrote with him. I forget the name of it now But it was on his album He's a great guy, too. He's just like down-to-earth Sweetheart, what's it? What's his process like songwriting, like when you're picking his brain, how does he process a song?

Well, you start with a fragment of some sort, maybe a guitar riff or a lyric idea, and you just start strumming along with it, and another idea comes, you go, well how about this, what if it went to this chord what if you said that and it used you follow the muse as it unfolds to you if you're lucky it's good yeah what's your take on the Nashville style of writing well I don't relate to that because I'm I'm a I'm an isolationist when it comes to writing mostly I've been opening up a little bit writing

with other people but all my life I've been opening up a little bit writing with other people, but all my life I've written on my own, you know, by myself and where I can make mistakes and sound crappy until I get it how I think it sounds right and then show it to somebody. So the Nashville thing, I get the impression that they just kind of show up at the door and say, here, here's the coffee. Let's start writing. Like I don't do that. Yeah. You know, yeah. I don't do that. Yeah, you know Yeah, and that it's maybe I'll learn yeah actor. Oh, no, it's like a gangbang. Yeah

Four people in it. I've been writing a lot in Nashville I kind of like it like I feel like I went to school too many cooks in the kitchen though sometimes sometimes That's very fascinating that you're your Isolated songwriter suit. Well, what was the process like when you had to co-collab with Tom? Well, it was isolation. I wrote my stuff, my music and my bits with me and the muse. It's just us working this thing out and I would give it to him and then he would listen to it.

We never sat down and eyeballed the album and made stuff up maybe once or twice but hardly ever. Yeah. And he would write, he would take the tape and write to it on his own and come back and show it to me. I like that process because I can self edit myself before anybody hears how bad I really am. Here's the best version of me. Wasn't Keith or Mick like that too? I don't know them. I don't know how they work. I can't speak for them.

My buddy was the engineer on one of the records and they said Mick, Mick would work from 9 to 5 and and Keith would work from 5 p.m. to 4 a.m. It was fascinating to me. You know I got I got two more questions and then I'll let you go. I know you're busy. Moving to the Valley, what was your experience about that? Did you enjoy living in the Valley? Yeah, I love the Valley. Um, it's close enough to action, but it's also far enough to feel a little separated from the desperation of Hollywood.

Yeah. And it's if you're raising kids, it's, uh, it seems, it seems like a more mellow vibe out here. Yeah. You know, do you still like touring? Do you still like, as you get older, do you still love it or do you want to, are you doing weekend stuff now? Or do you like being on the bus still? No, I love it. I'm not the sailor in the sea, you know. You book a gig,

I'm going there. And I just love it. I love being playing for people. I love being in the studio too. I mean, I like both. Yeah. Sometimes I'm on the road and I go, I wish I was in my studio and vice versa, you know, but it's all good. But no, I love playing and I'm going to keep playing as long as I as I can right is it hard for you to say goodbye to things Goodbye to things yeah, just like Like what anything in life like Pardon are we getting back to death again? No, I'm talking about like the next day like Leaving a town and moving on to the next city

No, I don't look back. Yeah, I'm always moving forward. Yeah, you know, I was there we had a great time Thank you very much tomorrow. I'm in another city. Hello. Let's do this again. Yeah new game. I'm always looking forward I don't like nostalgia. Yeah, that's great and bad drug Yeah, so oh, you don't like nostalgia, but you play all of the old songs? Say what? So what's the diff, what's, like, what's nostalgia in your book? Well, nostalgia was like writing the book. Right. Going back over old memories, reliving old memories and old experiences and taking your mind back to things that have already come and gone. I think it was Bob somewhere said, nostalgia is death.

I like remembering things to a point, but I like to think forward. So nostalgia is just kind of, I have a knee-jerk reaction. I don't really wanna think about stuff I've already done. It's like the heartbreakers being gone, you know, I'm nostalgic for them I was in that band once I was in high school once I remember these things But I don't want to go back and keep my mind in that space. I'd like to move forward So why'd you write the book if it's gonna give you pain? Well, they asked me to

Yeah, no, honestly honestly I had no idea writing a book and then my friends came to me with this writer and he said I was surprised they wanted to bother with it and I said okay I'll do this and then I got into it and it just happened you know. I'm really pleased with how people like the book. They love it. It was just an afterthought to me but I'm an author now. I love it. There you go. Another thing on the LinkedIn. I just think about you man because you don't like talking about the past and yet then you have to dig up all these things and like you know the death of your friend and like. Oh yeah.

I enjoyed it once. Now the book's done. I had to do the audio book, which is another go back and go over the stuff again. I've done it now. I'm ready. I'm gonna write another book. Yeah, what are you gonna write the book about? The Dirty Knobs. Yes. There you go.

So yeah, it's like, I love it. So what do you want the Dirty Knobs to be remembered by? The Dirty Knobs? Yeah. Remembered by, I want the dirty knobs to be remembered by? The dirty knobs? Yeah Remembered by I don't care what they remembered by I just hope people like them now. Yeah That's what people remember us by, you know, I'll be gone anyway. I care How it's a great band. It's it's it's my life's blood right now and it's carrying on my My need to play with other guys. I'm a band person, I'm not a solo artist and they're a great band, just incredibly great band. We cut this record so quick and they like my songs and they're great live and we're getting a rapport and we're playing

nicer theaters now and it's moving up a little bit to where we're comfortable. Yeah. I don't want to remember them, I just want to be them. nicer theaters now, it's moving up a little bit to where we're comfortable. I don't want to remember them, I just want to be them. Yeah, that's what, I got to get out of my own way of, this is my last question, I'll let you go back to your life. By the way, thanks so much. You said that 10 minutes ago. I know, sorry about that. I'm just like, this might be the last time

I might get to talk to you. I just, like, I really, you are one of my idols and I'm just so honored that I get to do this. You talk about present. How do you focus on being present like every day in your life to make sure you're not thinking about the past as much as you get older? I don't really, it's not an effort for me to be present. I mean, it's just look around you, you know. Dogs are good for that. They kind of keep you in the present.

You like come up and look at you and want some love. Okay. My wife is great. My music, music, I'm always present with the music. Music is the best medicine there is. I don't get down too much. I get a little depressed now and then, but I don't have mental issues, fortunately. I'm a pretty basically happy person most of the time, but my life has been so blessed

I'd be a fool not to be. Right. True. True. So that was my secret to being present. Just be present. Focus on what you want and what you're doing and love what you're doing. If you love what you're doing,

you're always present. Yeah, you're totally right. We'll leave it at that. Thanks so much, Mike Dambel. Thanks for the guidance and keep being that great light to all of us younger musicians. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck to you. Thank you. Have a good one.

Bye. You've just tuned into the World Saving Podcast with Andy Frasco. Produced by Andy Frasco, Joe Angelhowe, and Chris Lorenz. Please help us save the world by subscribing and rating the show on volume.com, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you're listening so we can spread the word and save the world. Follow us on Instagram at World Saving Podcasts for updates, for tour dates, merch, and whatever crazy special event Andy thinks of next, check out andyfrasco.com. Special thanks to this week's guest, courtesy of our talent booker, Mara Davis, That's Me, or Andy's Other Mother.

Be your best and we'll talk to you next week for another great episode of the World Saving Podcast.