Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - Ep 355 Nancy Wilson

Episode Date: February 10, 2026

This week on the World Saving Podcast, Rock n' Roll Hall of Famer Nancy Wilson joins Andy Frasco and Nick for an interview that covers the entire span of her career. They talk about scoring movies like Elizabethown and Almost Famous, being a trailblazing woman guitarist in a male-dominated industry in the 70s, what's next for Heart in terms of albums and a movie, and much more. She also discusses what it was like switching up their sound in the 1980s to keep up with the times and how she has stayed creative during her five-decade career as a bona fide rock star. Tune in this week for one of the best music interviews yet with plenty of fun facts you've never heard before about Nancy Wilson's career. 

What is your philosophy on staying creative through this long career, Nancy Wilson? You know, I say this, but it's kind of my only skill. Yeah. I'd be good at a few things other than being a creative artist type person, but I'd have to work with animals, I guess, or be a teacher of music. Sounds like the music industry. Some kind of a teacher with little kids or animals. Not that much different between an animal shelter and a tour bus. Yeah.

Or animal shelter and dealing with a record. label executive working with dogs you know i go through these phases like right now i'm in a phase of really feeling like creating some new songs and i've got songs going on great um but i feel like this is our this is the perfect time for heart to make a victory lap out of our legacy right so i figure we need to make one more heart album that's awesome oh hell yeah and we're live indy frasco's world saving I'm Andy Frasco. How's your heads? How's your hearts?

How's your minds? How is my boy Nick's fucking heart doing? My heart physically? Yeah, is it enlarge? I hope not. For having such a beautiful soul. That's what people usually say about me first. Yeah, big heart.

Nick girl, like beard, beautiful soul, good reads, trivia. We have Nancy Wilson from Heart on the show this week. She was amazing. She was unbelievable, dude. I couldn't believe it. She's so chill. You know, like... But not boring.

Not boring. You know, like, sometimes I worry about, like, um, rock stars in that era, the legends, and if they get jaded or not. Yeah, I don't think she is. She's not. She's written so many hits.

Hart was the first original... Like rock female band. Rock female band. She's ahead of her time. Who's second? I mean, like... I don't even know. Spice girl.

girls. That's not a rock fan. I'm just kidding. Their first album does slap, but that first record does slap. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she's incredible. I couldn't believe how successful she's been for so long. I forgot about all the movie stuff.

I know. She used to, she was married to Cameron Crow. Who was my all-time favorite director. I knew Nancy Wilson before I knew she was in heart because I loved all her scoring. She scored my favorite films, almost famous. She scored Elizabeth Town, which fucking ruled.

She wrote the original music. Have you watched Elizabeth Town? I like that movie, yeah, yeah. Orlando Bloom kind of ruled in that. He was kind of cheesy, but kind of cool. But the whole movie was cool. It was like about a dad's funeral and having redemption with the dad and finally giving him like his road trip.

It was like a more watchable Garden State or something. Well, it happened right after. It was Cammer Crow's Garden State. Yeah, yeah. I thought it was better. I thought Gardner's a little too stiff in its ass a little bit. Yeah, he's better than Zach. breath. I mean, he's

Cameron Crow and the guy from Scrubs. The goddamn book is on my is on our wall. I love all this. Uncool. I love almost famous. I mean, Cammy Crow. The original music for that, like the fake band. That's her shit. That's probably made the movie so much better having an actual musician.

A lot of people don't know about Cameron Crow's. He's the one who found Led Zeppelin. Oh yeah, because he was super young writing for Rolling Stone or whatever. That's that band he was writing about is Led Zeppelin. That's crazy. But they kind of seem more like the Almond brothers in the movie. Yeah.

They have an almond brother's vibe to them. Fibba dog. Oh, that's a great. The scene in the movie,

I'm gay. Yeah. I think about that a lot. Yeah, I bet you do. I bet you think about that a lot.

So you're home for 10 minutes. I'm home for 10 minutes, but, you know, I don't want you to get sick of me. I got to get in and out. I just want you to make

sure that, you know, that I don't think about you, that I am thinking about you, but I don't want you to feel like, How many times a day do you think about me on the road? I think about you probably.

Three? No, I think, no, per day? I probably five or six. A lot. I do, I love you. It's like, what the fuckest dick do you want to see him making clips? This interview with Nancy Wilson was killer. Yeah, we killed it.

He killed him. All right, guys, enjoy Nancy Wilson. Goodbye. You love your bands, don't you? You really love your bands. If you really want to love your bands and you really love your bands and want to support them the real way, head to volume.com and subscribe. Volume.com!

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Where you get to meet us. Like, I'm doing Monday morning motivations where we could all have coffee together and talk about how we're going to achieve and attack the week. So this is how you could support your favorite artists. Head over to volume.com and let's get personal. Wow. Here we are. We have one of the greatest.

on the planet with us. Nancy Wilson, how you doing today? Wow, thank you. I'm doing better right now than I was before. It was a very affection. Well, on it's a, you know, it's a, I know, you could have picked Rolling Stone for this article and you picked us. I really appreciate it. So, before we talk about, you know, hard stuff, I just want to let you know some of the most memorable movies have your music in it. Elizabeth Town, not a lot of people talk about. I love a movie.

I think the scoring was unbelievable in Elizabeth Town. It was... Oh, thank you. I really appreciate that. I have a 100-year-old mandolin that sort of led the way for that score project. It's a really nice, you know, Southern comfort kind of sound

and that's film. Yeah, tell me about the process of like when you're watching a film. What's your process about scoring? Because almost famous, too, was unbelievable. Oh, thank you. Same mandolin. I know. I mean, it was like it really felt like you had a different character as a composer,

as like a, or a scorer. So what was your philosophy for those films? Well, I think it's, I come through the door of being a songwriter first and foremost. And when I wanted to, you know, start my family and I was, I kind of took a sabbatical to stay home and try to start a family for a couple of years. And I worked on film for a while. It was a really, it was a great education as a songwriter to kind of look at scenes and try to figure out how to support what's happening in a scene. But not to step on the dialogue because there's no lyrics necessary. It's just the music necessary.

The lyrics are kind of what the actors are saying in their scene. So it was really a great musical kind of assignment for me as a writer to learn how to hold it back, how to restrain. Right. And like when to shut up and what not to do, you know, what not to play. Was it nerve-wracking when Cameron first asked you to score those things? Um, yeah, but, you know, I'm, I'm kind of a, I like a tall order, you know, like that. It's a tall order musically, but I feel like as a music person, I'm, I'm all game. I'm just completely game for doing all that kind of stuff because it's what I know how to do.

And I, I really have no other skills to speak them, you know. Oh, man, we're musicians too. area. You know, or something, you know. Yeah. That's amazing. So what, so what was it like working with like your ex-husband? Like is it, was it like more pressure or I don't, you know, it's like this like you

don't shit where you sleep type of thing. Is it like that? Is it like that with like a big movie like that too? And like. Or is there like an advantage to it? Or is there a more comfortable? Are you more comfortable? It was a, it was disadvantage.

it's disadvantaged for the most part. Yeah, I bet. Just because it is so nepotistic, people observe that, and they assume that I'm just getting a really big break in the Hollywood movie industry because I'm married to the director. You know, oh, yeah, she slept with the director, she got the part, you know, so. So it was kind of a little bit of a, a, uh, a little bit of a, uh, perception thing that I had to kind of fight against that.

And also, you know, the way that it was lucky, the way that it was easier was to know that to communicate with the director, who I was married to, who came through the door of music in his way of working in film and writing for film. So we both had the same idea musically instead of me working for a movie company where You get all these notes about your music, which classically is true, where they say, we don't know what to tell you that we do want, but we don't like what you gave us. But we cannot guide you for what we want. We don't like what we hear, but we can't tell you what we want to hear.

So it's a big, just a tall order. Either way you slice it. but I think I gained a lot from it. I just, you know, I learned a lot as a music person by doing stuff like that. And I'm glad you liked Elizabeth Town. I got to meet the guys in my morning jacket. Yeah. Oh, cool.

Fictitious band like Jim James. Yeah, Kentucky, right? Because Kentucky based. We just got him at a show, yeah, recently. And they were the fictitious band called Ruckus in that film. It's, yeah, yeah. Kind of like Stillwater, Fictitious Band in all the same. So, you know, we worked on a funny song for a ruckus to do and all that stuff.

But, yeah, it's just a great experience that brought me. I could bring some experience back into the fold with the heart band and make more music that way, with added additional knowledge on board, you know. It's unbelievable. And then, like, I think about that when you said, like, nepotism and I'm thinking like what about like misogynist like have you dealt with like misogyny's your whole whole fucking existence as a career well yeah you know I mean uh the culture today is even more like crazy going backwards in that particular isn't that crazy even like

politics everything it's just like full regression fucking bro party it's it's really it's really uh It's really irritating and disappointing because people of my generation, like the loved children from the late 60s, right? We were the hippie crowd. And my sister, you know, like I'm the end of the baby boomer generation myself at 72 almost. And so it's like, we fought so hard for all of this, you know, mind expanding, you know, mind-broadening

thought and music and all of the work we did for against the war mongering and, you know, the greed of the corporate greed of it all and all the stuff we were really, really working hard. Yeah, fighting for.

Giving our lives in some cases, a lot of us for. And, you know, I try not to be discouraged, but it's really going the wrong direction. And you kind of have to look at people like Pope Leo, you know, and go, now that's the guy we should be listening to right now. Right. You're such a lack of morality and decency and kindness and just intelligent thinking, you know, in the powers to be.

Do you think religion, do you think religion creates a better idea of morality? Well, I completely do. Because, I mean, I've always been more of a spiritual person than a religious person, but it gives you a blueprint of ethical, a blueprint of the golden rule, for example. Right. How do you want to treat somebody else the way you want to be treated, right? Yeah. So simple as it sounds and corny as it might sound, it's the real, that's what it's really

all should be about. And that's what religion is, you know, even though religion itself, listen to me, but with God on our side, so much blood is always spilled, you know, for the wrong, for some kind of God or whatever. But religion itself, I think, is put there to a belief system that helps us steer our humanity in a better direction than its own worst nature. So it steers us into our more Christ-like behavior and the angels of our better nature, as we say. Why do we feel like we have to like rely on God when everything is going wrong?

Why can we just like fix it ourselves? You know, it's like every, it's always like these like like apocalyptic moments where everyone starts believing in God again. Right. Because why can't we like, you know, fix it from. inside. That's what I don't understand about that. Where's that glitch in human nature that always reverts back to the toddler, you know, in our sex? And the narcissistic one and like, me, me, me, me, it's mine, mine, mine, mine. Right. More, more, you know, more territory,

more stuff is my stuff than being kind and giving and sharing. It's, you know, the toddler mentality. I mean, nobody hardly ever graduates from high school, you know, emotionally. We all get so emotionally stunted that we don't treat each other like, you know, fairly half the time. So, I mean, I'm not trying to sound real negative or anything. I think that whatever it takes for people to get enlightened a little bit about how they treat each other. I'll take religion. I'll take whatever version of that we can Just give me something to fucking believe it it.

Well, music is one of those things. Yeah, yeah. And that's what brings me to my point about like, you know, this toddler idea of ignorance is bliss. Do you feel that way you wrote the best music when you're ignorant or when you didn't have like

so much pressure on you? Like when you're starting heart, you know? Like what? Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting, it's a really good question because when you're in your 20s, like we were, you know, early 20s of stuff, and you feel like that, okay, you know, I'm an old soul and I have the wisdom of the ages when I'm writing a song now. And it's before you've ever been through shit, you know, in your life. So it's kind of a real idealistic idea of wisdom. that you're putting forward, you know, when you write really cool stuff,

before you have it ever really experienced the harms. Right. Yeah, like I think about all everyone, a lot of your peers in your era wrote these prolific songs at 24 years old. Right. 25 years old. Like, how, they didn't experience life yet. Like, where do you think it was coming from, Nancy?

Well, you know, I kind of handed to, a little bit to the cultural impact of the late 60s of the Beatles and things like mind expanding, you know, with pot, smoky some pot, like just having perspective, widening experiences before drugs were too scary and too, well, you know, over the top, strong as they are now. I mean, we used to just have like little joints that were just mild little pot smoking, experiences that you listen to your music and you'd get really inspired and you'd feel the ages of wisdom of the ages coming through the music and so you wanted to join that army you know the army for good the you know and i've always been that same flower child all the way through regardless of how

hard and how much of the negative stuff I've had to withstand. Like what? What type of negative stuff? Well, just like assholes that are everywhere. Yeah, all those guys. Yeah, we run into those. Yeah, we're into those still in 2006. There's people in the business that think they know.

everything and they're trying to a lot of people have tried to get me and Anne like divided from each other over the years because there's a lot of control freak stuff that's been happening for a long time so I just keep

my I keep my hat on about it all because I have to be but it causes me to become this this radical optimist

you know, in as a way of survival, it's a survival mechanism to be radically optimistic in the face of all of the BS that we have to endure. Yeah, how do you keep family and friendship with and with all these other people whispering in your ear? Like, what do you do to like move forward in that? Yeah, that's, that is. that's been a challenge off and on

because we're very different, me and my sister. And I've gone through a lot of therapy which is very helpful, you know. What have they taught you in therapy? Well, you kind of have to learn how to protect yourself when you're giving too much and you're trying to fix everybody else and you have to look out for yourself

and give yourself some time with some credit and give yourself the gift of acknowledging you're doing good stuff and it's not all just a big challenge, you know. But it's kind of hard to stay, you know, radically optimistic sometimes because when you're in a family, family situation, but it's also professional situation.

Yeah. Not unlike working with your husband on films and the nepotism that's expected there is, it's challenging too. And the the different kinds of people that we are, we were like perfect yin and yang relationship, me and my sister. where I accompany her the best of anyone else in the world because we grew up doing that. And so whatever the outside influences that, you know,

try to keep us from being together, that things that the forces that are trying to divide us at all times just melt away when we're playing on a stage together. Right. It's gone. It's not there. It's only the other times when you're not in the magic bubble of the 90 minutes or two hours that you're, you know, experienced. It's like being in the headphones when you're on pod or something.

It's larger than life, you know. You're just in the painting that is the beautiful painting that you're, you know, living. So none of that comes into the musical and the creative part of our relationship. Isn't it amazing? It's my life every time. I'm telling you, I've been in a bay I've been in a band for 15 years and I want to kill my guitar player, but we're on that stage. We, we, nothing matters. And nothing matters. It's like, you know, we've been, we did 250 shows a year. I want to, I want to kill him until I get on that stage. And all of a sudden. everything disappears.

Isn't that kind of crazy in a way? Like your adrenaline and your, I don't know, all of your cellular energy that you have around doing music and the way it sounds and how it vibrates into your, the vibration goes through you. You know, it's in the air. You're moving air through the amplifier that goes through your body and all of your skin and your bones and your flow out too.

you know, and everybody that's listening as well. And so you could be like sick as a dog. Right. You know, I've got a hundred and four fever and I have to go play the show right now. And you get out there and it's like, I'm perfectly fine for 90 minutes. Right. Like I hardly notice that I'm sick as a dog, you know, at all. It's just something else that's going on with all that.

Pretty weird. It's happened to me. It's crazy. It's pretty amazing. It's really weird in the best possible weird way. Yeah. Like, have you ever, like, have you ever, like, beat your sister up on stage or anything? Backstage.

No, have you ever beat, like, beat up your sister on stage or right before or just? Who's the mean one? Who's the mean one? Who gets, who gets, who's more physical? Who's more, who's more, like, mind-fucky, like, emotional? You're the younger sister, right? So I'm going to assume it. Well, you know, people, one of the most frequently asked questions is, do you guys fight?

You and your sister fight? And I'm like, well, we have this amazing thing. We have really cool parents and we know how to communicate. So we're not, you know, kind of teenagers about that kind of stuff. But we kind of thought, what if we, what if we stayed? to fight. Like, oh my God. Because people will expect it so much.

That would be awesome for this tour now. We actually got on stage and I pretended we're having a big row. Right. You know, for some reason. And we'd get all kinds of publicity for it, you know, because it might help our career if we had a fight on stage. We just are not good actors enough to pull it off. We tried.

We tried practicing it. Yeah. It was just not going to fit. It was not a fit. I hear that. I mean, like, you know, going... It would work, though, I think. You know, it's like you guys, you know, you guys weren't just a jukebox.

You stayed creative and you stayed creative throughout the decades. What is your philosophy on staying creative through this long career, Nancy Wilson? Well, I think it's like, you know, I say this, but it's kind of my only skill. Yeah. I don't really know. I'd be good at a few things other than being a creative artist type person, but I don't, you know. Like what? I'd have to work with animals, I guess, or be a teacher of music or...

Sounds like the music industry. Yeah. Some kind of a teacher, you know, some kind of a teacher with little kids or animals. Not that much of between animals, I'll turn a tour of us. Yeah. Or animals. shelter and dealing with a record label executive working with dogs you know yeah at least the dogs are trained yeah um you know go back to this what what what how did you

stay creative through this like you know I know it's like it's a tool and it's like you work it's like a muscle memory but like you wrote so many great songs forever like that's it's pretty amazing well I think it's it's it's really I'm I feel still I go through these phases like right now I'm in a phase of really feeling like creating some new songs, and I've got songs going on. Great. But I feel like this is the perfect time for heart, the next, like this year, next year to make a victory lap out of our legacy, right?

So I figure we need to make one more heart album. That's awesome. And especially these players that we have in the lineup right now in this band, we're just, you know, really excited to play together. And there's no kind of limits on what we could kind of pull off as musicians. So it's like I've got a few songs, and Anne's working with those guys in her side band right now, writing other songs. But I think I'm going to like want to make the last hard album and do the Victory lap and make 2027 mainly. about the heart film, the heart documentary.

I heard about this. I heard some big things about a big movie coming in. Yeah, we got a big movie. And we've got a final draft soon to read that Carrie Brownstein actually did Portlandia's of Flutter Kinney's fame. She's a buddy and she's a good writer too. And we've been working on mainly with her. A lot of my colleagues

are talking about this It's pretty fucking cool It's big It's gonna be big And well You know And it's so weird too Because like

You kind of have to go Well Okay Who would be the actor That plays you You know I know And you get to find out

Who would you want to play you guys In a perfect world For me I mean Somebody like El Fanning Oh my god Amazing It's a good one

It's really good one Yeah And they're sisters too, so they can both play both of you. She's great. But, you know, there's a lot of, I mean, Flores Poo would make an incredible Ann Wilson, I think. Oh, awesome. I don't know.

I mean, it's just fun to think about anyway. Is it weird to think of a victory lap? Kind of. But then as the grandchildren start arriving. Yeah, not as crazy to think about, like, doing less of the big rock tour. I mean, it's entirely exhausting to do that travel, right? And when you're not quite as young and rubbery, you know,

as you always were going through almost 50 years-ish of doing that, you really get paid for the travel, you know, on those rock tours. The show itself is the thrill. The million thrills and the glory and that magic thing we were just talking about. Yeah. I would do that for free, and I probably will end up doing music somehow for as long as I can live, you know. Right. But the tour part is really, it's really rough on you.

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And that's true. So grab Gardenaista and let them know Frasco and Jason's huge hog sent you. All right, goodbye. Enjoy the interview. When did it start beating you up a little bit? When you start realizing I can't, I don't want to do this as much anymore. Well, I mean, when you just get, I mean, the exhaustion of the travel. you know it's just it's a reality even when you're young you get really burned out

we used to joke about it like oh we're young and we're still young and unburnt you know because we're in our early 30s now but we always expected to keep doing it as long as we could do it and now we're kind of like well we're a little more burnt these days yeah yeah turn me over I'm done on this side It's still worth it. It's still totally worth it. You know, it's just a thrill that you get doing the work, but the travel not so much. And if I ever see one more bad pizza, I'm going to scream.

Right. Have you had a moment in your career where the record label wasn't working for you? You were now working for the record label? Oh, yeah. I mean, out of 50 years, what do you think? Yeah, like, what was the first record where you really saw the change? Yeah, I think it was, well, it was actually when the 80s kicked in with MTV. Wow.

Because obviously the whole culture shifted around then with that. And we'd already been, you know, pretty successful through the late 70s, the flower children from Seattle that we were, you know. But when the whole image-making star maker machinery of MTV came to play, we were not exactly built for that. We were not image-minded rock starters at all. We were just there for the music and songwriters and live performers. And so we kind of got put into these corsets and we put us into the stiletto and the fog machines.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those videos are fucking epic, though. Glam rock. And the big hair and all that stuff. But, I mean, it was kind of fun to play dress up like that, too. You know, there was not all bad. But we just weren't really, it wasn't in our nature, you know, to, to, it, we just thought where we came from.

So, but you see that stuff now, and it's still, the songs live. well through that era. Yeah. It's just some of the hairdoes and some of the fashion, maybe not so much. No, I hear that. The fashion always comes back. The fair hair of the 80s was a little, it got a little bit too, to, like, closer to, you know, God or whatever. They say, the higher the hair, the closer to God.

So you felt like, so you felt like it, heart wasn't being, I truly identified as, who you guys wanted to be. They were trying to make you something you weren't. Well, yeah, I think they wanted us to be ornamental more than we really felt like we were because we were artists, you know, first. So, and there was one time, which was one of those fog machine,

you know, three-day shoot videos, you know, with all these, all this hair and all this makeup and all this lighting that goes to all hours of the night with everyone's on cocaine kind of thing and you're just like, oh my God, you're going to do a close-up now at 6th of the morning. You know, I've been up all my life.

I know. And now they wanted me to get into a harness that and stand on top of a, like a mock, a building. It was like I was going to jump with a guitar in a harness off the building through the fog. Crazy. That's crazy. And how, like,

whoever thought of that was just so adamant that I had to try to do it. It's like, I don't want to do it. I don't want to jump off a building on a harness with a guitar. I just don't feel like it's me. It just doesn't represent, you know, how I feel as an artist. I just don't want to be Pegasus, you know, through the, through the clouds with a guitar. It does sound like a 6 a.m. Coke dream, Nancy.

Sounds like he was on Coke when he was on cocaine thinking of this. We're going to have Nancy Wilson drive out there with a megasus to fly out. It's like a 6 a.m. fucking. It's like you do it first. Fever dream. Yeah, it's like, the best thing I ever thought of when I was trying to 1,000 miles an hour. Yeah. Yeah.

So it definitely was a cocaine idea. It was like, why, you know. And I said, well, okay, I will do it. But if it's stupid, I won't, we will, it'll go on the cutting room floor. You know, so Anne started to cry at that video shoot because she felt like I was in danger because I was climbing up this ladder going up to getting in this harness. Jesus Christ. Way up high on this, you know, thing. And I was going to jump off this leg.

and it was just a little too much, right? And she felt protective. And so I jumped off the ledge. It looked really stupid. And we didn't use it, of course. Oh, my God. But that was kind of the epitome of that whole part and were the record company.

And meanwhile, they don't tell you that, yeah, they're footing the bill, but you're paying them back later. Yeah. Don't worry. It only costs $30,000. We didn't use it. Everything you put into it is recouped.

Yeah, yeah. It's made pay it back. Yeah. Yeah. What does recoup mean? Let's see. Yeah, exactly. By you, by the way, not them. You're like, damn, why we're going out to lobster dinner every week?

Well, yeah, what were the 80s like as record deals? When you first got your record deal, like, what was the first song that the label was like, holy shit, this is awesome. And like, what was that when everyone was excited? Let's talk about the exciting times. Yeah. The exciting sounds? were the ones that, you know, we as songwriters,

we were expected to suddenly start to listen to demos by outside songwriters, the LA stable of hit songwriters, like there was Holly Knight and Diane Warren and, you know, Tom and Kelly and those guys. And a lot of which we did work with, and we did have great songs with, like, Alone. and these dreams and what about love? Yeah, crazy. Once we chose, you know. But there were some other songs that we were really,

they really thought we should do that we didn't want to do. Yeah. Which ones? You know, we ended up recording. But it got to a point at one, over one song, I forget the song, the title, but it might have been, I can't remember if it was Diane Warren or one of the great writers of the day,

but we just didn't feel like it was a fit. And so they said, well, we can just not promote you or your album if you don't want to record this. Oh, my God. And we were like, okay, then, I guess we'll record the song for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Message received. The threat is insane, though.

And it didn't work because the spirit was lost on the song. Right. Somebody else could have done a really better version of that song, not unlike the Mutt Lang song we did called All I Want to Do is Make Love to You, which was our biggest hit globally ever. Yeah. Huge song. Yeah. A really great song.

Yeah. I love the hooky chorus of that, the way the track sounded and all of it was really great. Everything about it was great, except when Anne sang it, she couldn't really, really relate to the story, the lyrics, right? Because the lyrics are very much like, well, like a country song, like a story song. Right.

And somebody like Shania Twain had been singer, not a hard rock singer like Ann Wilson, right? The context of the song might have just fit better to the personality of the band that was saying it. So,

because it's all about, you know, it was a rainy night and she picks up this guy in the car and then they have sex and you know and then it was unprotected I guess because then the baby comes along later and then it looks like her

and him and oh you know this whole story that goes down and so Anne's like what the fuck and just like I don't do this well we changed the gender of the song to the female's perspective yeah right yeah yeah so they

band it in Ireland because it was like this wanton woman having sex out of wedlock. Oh my God, I didn't know that. Ireland needs to be really... I didn't know that. Yeah, we were kind of proud that they banded in Ireland. That's pretty rock and roll. Yeah, exactly. Pretty rock, yeah.

That's rock and roll. But we never ended up really putting it in our set either because people love it. It's a great song, but it's just not a heart song either. Exactly. So... Yeah, that's... We tried, I've tried to kind of fix the lyrics to, but it's really, it's a country song. Yeah, it really is a country song.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, like, you're the fucking first great female rock band. Like, what, who are your inspirations? You know, who were your, who did you look up to to become that? Well, there weren't a lot of girls to look up to at that time. You know, Anne's big vocal influence was. a lot more about Robert Plant. Oh, yeah.

Oh, interesting. Anybody else. And me, you know, we had Deep Purple and Zeppelin and Woody Blues and Elton John and Crosby, Still Snash, and Neil Young and Jackson Brown, and a lot of acoustic stuff, Simon Garfunkle, as well as a lot of hard rock stuff, you know, like Deep Purple and Zeppelin. So we kind of bridged. But I mean, when I go on the stage and I play a big loud, up to 11 guitar part,

I channel Jimmy Page. You know, I'm channeling or Paul McCartney or some dude is kind of what I feel like on the stage because those were our influences. But it's cool to see a lot more of girls out there now, you know, doing rock bands and doing actual rock and roll. Now you're the inspiration. Now you're the inspiration. Yeah, exactly.

To be the influence, I guess, on that, which is very cool. I love that. I have this one woman guitar, but she's 19. Grace Bowers. You're a big, she's from NAS. Grace Howard and follow her, yeah. She's amazing. She's unbelievable.

And you're one of her big inspirations. I talk to her a lot about you. Oh, yeah. She's, she's kick-ass player. And she's got a cool voice, too. And when she writes and sings songs, it's really, I just, and I love her band. They're so funky. Oh, yeah.

Just great. Those guys are great. But I love her stuff. I'm all about Grace Bowers, yeah. You know, who is, I was singing this. You know, it's like crazy on you. Such iconic song. Who was the first, like, massage?

Who was the first male? Is it, hey, Nancy, you're a badass guitar player. You know, talk about that misogynistic thing. Who was the first one who kind of got out of that thing? Who gave you the love first, you know? Well, it was, it was Billy Gibbons. Really? He's the man.

He's the man. We were, when I finally joined Anne's Band, after, you know, putting myself through, like, creative writing class and stuff, I joined Anne's Band, and we were putting the first album out in 1975. In the year, back of the year of our Lord, in 1975

and and we were opening in Canada for ZZ Top which they would call them ZZ Top in Canada because they say Z

instead of Z Oh that's cool I didn't know that I was opening for ZZZ Top in Canada for a bunch of shows and he came up to me one time he goes Hey man you play pretty good for a girl you know.

And I'm like, thank you so much. How old were you? I was probably 21. Oh my God. Nancy, what a life. Right? Right. Oh, my God.

You started torn like that, 21? Yeah, well, I joined when I was 19, but I was sitting in. And then I joined for real when I was like 21, 22 or something. And, you know, join the Army. see the world. So how'd you convince your parents? Or they were cool with it? I said before we had really cool parents.

They were kind of mind-expanded people. They were very all about education and music and stuff. So we all sang and played instruments and had philosophy and reading and reading books and a lot of discussions and self-realization. type stuff that was going on in those days in the late 60s particularly. Yeah. You know, mind-broadening things. Like acid and shit?

What? Like acid, like LSD, mushrooms, like that type of mind expanding? Not with my parents. Oh, no. You were going on 12-hour trips. You weren't going on a piece of grass with your pots? Yeah. That was a few separate parties that.

That's a different part. Totally definitely had some psychotropic journeys that we had gone on. So I got a few times a long way. So when did they realize, Dan, this is exactly her dream? Well, they wanted us to follow our bliss, as they called it then. So follow your bliss. But my mom warned us, whatever you do, just do not lose track of who you are. you're wonderful, you're great people, you're good people, and don't lose sight of who you are

when you go to Tinsletown. And so we said, okay, Mama, we went to Tinsel Sound, and we lost track of who we were. Immediately. You on top of that building with the artist, you're like, fuck. I lost track. I'm a pretty good example. Like my mom would hate this. 6 a.m. on cocaine. Your mom's like, it's just like, what a great idea to do a zoom up on your face. Just all, I think it's got a bloody nose. I think it's a lot of shit wrong, you know, to get it right.

Well, yeah, I think, but I think that's part of life, right, Nancy? It's like, you know, like you can't, you can't expect it all to go your way, you know, but it's going to go to the way they'll make, yeah, or why would you want to? That sounds fucking boring, to be honest. Or be easy either. You know, you kind of have to fight for the stability and the balance and the love that you feel like you deserve and that you crave. But you have to give it to get it. Right.

All that stuff is true. And I think you have to blow it to learn it, you know, what not to do. And it's just, you know, it's all like Keith Richards would say, it's all another. prices of an education. You know, you regret anything in life? Any regrets? A regrets? Any regrets?

Well, no, I kind of choose not to regret because it's a waste your time that you still have left to not be respectful. Yeah, it's like, or it's like, you know, regret keeps you out of the present. and we should live in the present, right? I agree. I totally agree. Or future tripping either, you know. Yeah, that could be, I mean, that, in that anxiety, future tripping?

Yeah, the anxiety of what's going to go wrong next or whatever. Yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of a, it's a discipline to kind of stay radically, like I say, you know, radically optimistic. Well, maybe I answered my question about God. You know? The God? No, like that God question. And like it keeps people from talking about the future. Like, oh, God's got it.

Oh, yeah. Like, all I have to do is confess and then I can just do it again. I know. And I always thought that was really crazy. You could like confess to a priest that you killed someone and then he won't, he can't rat you out. That's weird. I love a good loophole, though.

Yeah. Yeah, Nick, my boy Nick loves a good loophole. He's a little, we call him conspiracy serious Nick. If there is some big, you know, dey-ed. but I think there is a big spiritual, there's a big spirit that there's a collective consciousness of spirit that exists out there with all of us included, you know, our spirits are part of it. Whatever big God there actually is up there, I think he should put us all on a big timeout right now. Oh, God.

All of us toddlers down here. I looked at, I looked at old Trump. Trumpy sent sending fucking showed him a picture of the whole North American continent and all the American flags on it. And he's showing this to Europe. I'm like, what the, we are living in a twilight zone right now. Well, this is, this guy is not well. No. Yeah.

He's dying. We all hope he's dying. Yeah. He's a nut job is what he is. Now we're on a list. I know now we're on a list. Yeah. We're definitely

Some of us knocked on the door Sorry Yeah This might be the last thing we ever do Sorry Putting in the red flag In front of all the haters So they can just

Right exactly Oh so true You know I gotta ask this Too much hate going on So we gotta Re-educate ourselves a little bit I got two more questions for you

Nancy And I'll let you go back to By the way I'm just thank you so much for your time This has been so refreshing It's been wonderful conversation Really a pleasure talking with you guys It's fun

About God and shit About God and cocaine About God and 6 AM cocaine music videos That's what we do We're not interested in what strings you use Yeah we're not yeah we're not I don't know I don't care about chords Nancy I do care about

I thought this was a little crazy I wonder I want your take about Your sister marrying the manager what was that like marrying the manager didn't your sister marry your manager or dated your manager early on at the very beginning

yeah what was that like what were you going through in your head well her boyfriend they never got legally married but the magic man was the guy that was his nickname yeah the song Magic Man was it's about him it's about him

about Mike Fisher oh my God I didn't put one on one together she fell in love with and left home for the first time to go and be in the band that his brother, Roger Fisher, was in. And then when I joined, I was the girlfriend of Roger Fisher and she was the girlfriend of Mike Fisher. Some fleet with Max shit going on. The Wilshers. Right. And I was still in touch with those guys.

And I just wrote a song. Mike Fisher, the Magic Man, just actually passed away last, last. year and I wrote a song for him that probably will go on the new heart album that we're putting together. That's awesome. Is there any advice about a love square like that as business partners? Well, I should have, you know, I think both in Fleetwood Mac and in heart, we, all the girls in both of our bands learned the hard way that you should never get involved with your bass. player, your guitar player. Especially the bass player. Oh, man.

Nobody in the band. I watch that Stevie Nix video of Lindsay Buggyham and they're still mad. Fire eyes, dude. It was. Right. Crazy. It's still there, I think, a little bit. Hell yeah.

I think that's cool, though. I think that's cool. Rock and roll. It is rock and roll. So much love and respect for those guys. It ain't rock and roll? I love a rock and roll story. I mean, I'm in rock and roll.

I'm trying to keep rock and roll live. I think it's, I don't think it's really going to ever finally die because like look at nowadays with all of the social media and all of the AI sounding stuff all over the life. It's authenticity is getting to be a more rare

and precious commodity. Yeah. You know, so the authenticity of real players and singers and rock bands, real rock bands, is, you know, rare and cool. So I think it's, you know, the pendulum will come back around once again,

I think. I do too. Get more rock in here. I love it. Well, the victory lap, as it should be, Nancy Wilson, because you are one of the baddest bitches on the planet.

Excuse my language. Seriously, you are a rock star. You're the coolest. And before I even knew you were in heart, I Googled you as just the composer of my favorite films. And to get the talk to you full circle, you really are. Thank you so fun. Honestly.

I love talking to you. It was awesome. And, you know, I'm always here for it. Do you live in Seattle? Where do you live? Santa Rosa these days. Oh, Santa Rosa, nice. Yeah, Northern California.

It's kind of used to be L.A. before, then in Seattle, but it's kind of the perfect in between Seattle and L.A. type thing. It's like near San Francisco? Yes, by San Francisco. We're playing the Independent next week, actually. Independence?

Yeah, we're playing the independent theater in San Francisco. Yeah, it's kind of far for you. It was an hour away from you? That might be two, three hours. Well, I'm going to be in L.A. And I'm going to be on tour. Yeah, you're a rock star.

I don't even know why I asked you to come to my show. I'm in heart. I'm in heart, Andy. I can't come to your jam band show. Jam band concert, Andy Frasco. I wrote barracuda. Yeah, I wrote fucking barracurias. Stop asking me to come to your dump console.

I am the magic man. I am the magic man. I wrote something in an odd meter that got famous. Yeah. Well, we should do this. We should do it again. Yeah, let's do another one. Let's do another one where you're getting ready for the tour.

Let's really highlight. We should do it when you put out the movie. We'll get you and L fanned on together. Yeah, it'd be awesome. Thank you so much, Nancy. Oh, this has just been a drink. I'm true. I got one last question before I leave.

is when it's all said and done, what do you want to be remembered by? Oh, let's see what my headstone would say. Or whatever. No, that sounds dark. I don't want that. I just, well, no, I just want to be remembered for, you know, just good music. I mean, just songwriting, really. And putting some love in the world, you know, asking for love and putting some love into a place that needs the love more than ever.

the world itself that's why the band's called heart and that's why you're the goat what a great band name of yeah I've got to live up to the name part somehow right yeah yeah yeah well you're living up to just the rock star that you are thanks thanks for

I'm honored to live in the same existence as the Nancy Wilson oh my gosh that's awesome we'll have a great day enjoy the rest of the day keep rocking out there Nancy okay let's rock

let's rock let's rock bye okay bye