Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 43: Steve Kimock & Dave Schools (Widespread Panic)

Episode Date: April 23, 2019

Andy sits down with Dave Schools: a mentor, collaborator, and rock&roll extraordinaire. They catch up on Widespread 2019 and talk about the band over the years. Then they dive deep in all things Steve Kimock...Schools describes him as “a guitar ninja.” This is a perfect primer for a wild interview. Andy and Steve talk about Steve’s journey, different projects/collaborators, philosophy, and everything in between. Episode 43 is live now. Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, tour dates, the band and the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com The views discussed on this podcast do not necessarily reflect those of the guests. Keep up with the virtuosic, Steve Kimock at http://kimock.com/ Check out Andy's new album, "Change Of Pace" on iTunes and Spotify Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Arno Bakker Todd Glass Shawn Eckels Ahri Findling

Andy, it's your new manager. And things are going to be a little different now. You need to be doing drums. If you want people to think you're cool and fun, then you've got to experiment. Name one good goddamn musician over the last 50 years that didn't experiment with some drums when they were younger. You want to go up there? You want to be drinking green tea on stage like a fucking

loose cannon? You need to do drugs. You need to do them in front of the audience. If you want to be respected in this goddamn business, you want me to go back in time and put you on tour with Pat Boone or some old fuck from the past you do drugs you do coke you do it all baby or you can go fuck yourself you need to be getting drugs from the audience tell them to bring it up to you. Tell them to put it on the keyboard. Andy, I swear to God, if you don't start doing more drugs, this tour you were going to do in Tokyo is done. You're not going to get the big money payday job from Smooky Fuck.

And Clem Simpson and the Funky Fuckers aren't going to go on tour with you. Because they don't want to go on tour with some limp dick motherfucking piece of shit who doesn't do drugs. And start crowd surfing more. And we're here live and in full effect, Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. This is a very special day. We got my co-host, my mentor, my band brother, Dave Schools. Hey, bud. Hi, Andy. How are you?

Dave, what a fun year back with the boys for a little bit, huh? You're playing with the Panic Boys. That's Panic, yeah. We just got back from three weeks on the East Coast. We did three shows in D.C. These are smaller venues than you normally do, right? Yeah, we like it. Summer's coming up.

There's going to be plenty of the wide open spaces and outdoor shows. But, you know, the Capitol Theater in Portchester in particular is, you know, that was a target. When you were a kid? No. I mean, I had a Grateful Dead tape or two from there in like 1970 that blew my little mind. But we actually played there, Panic did, in the early 90s. I think we opened for Blues Traveler, and we played with the New Orleans Radiators there.

And Elliot, the guy that is like the house local crew guy, he brought out a piece of paper. He just points at it. He goes, 27 years. Like, it's been 27 years since we played here? So what's that like, going back to a venue that's like, this is my first time watching your band, and I thought it was perfect watching your band in a theater

because I feel that's you guys. Do you feel that way too? Do you like playing in the theaters bigger than those big open air? I like everything. Too much of anything can get old. But to get to go back to a place like the cap and have the crew be really sweet you know and obviously peter shapiro has done a beautiful job it's it's a lot cleaner and nicer than i remember it it had fallen into really that was sort of a rock and roll disrepair um that sort of seductive did shapiro have it in

the 90s i don't know who had it um but it's definitely come a long way, and the staff is so sweet. Everybody was really nice. They were nice to the fans, and that just adds up to a good show. And, yeah, I do like the little theaters. They're contained, and so when the energy bubble happens, it stays tight. Sometimes it gets a little weird at a huge festival if you can actually whip that energy bubble up. Yeah. Sometimes it feels dangerous. What at like a huge festival if you can actually whip that energy bubble up yeah sometimes it feels dangerous what in a theater no in like when there's 80 000 people

fuck you know it's like have you ever caused a riot at one of your shows no but i remember uh in athens when we did the world's largest album release party and the outside show the outside in the streets and uh you know they estimated there was 90 to 100 000 people there which is more than the uga stadium holds for a football game 90 000 people showed up for you guys yeah it was crazy so what happened like what was it like like how is that feeling well you know i remember thinking all we have to do is just keep them focused yeah because don't let don't let terrible things happen and then the mayor of Athens, Gwen O'Looney, Athens' only female socialist mayor, she was great.

She comes out and she just looks out at the audience and she says, don't hurt my town. Here's widespread panic. We wanted to call the film Don't Hurt My Town, but Panic in the Streets wound up being that way. You know, but it's just really, if we do our jobs, we keep people happy and focused, and then fucked up shit doesn't happen.

What's your job, you think? As a bass player? Oh, we know that, but as a band, when you're doing something like that for that important of a 90,000 person, what would it be? I that's it just rodeo the energy and keep people happy i mean that's why they're there you know our headlining bonnaroo and it's like 105 degrees and it just rained but the humidity's already boiled it back into the air and people are dirty and they've been there for three days it's like these people go through a lot to have a good time so maybe our

job is just to ensure that that happens yeah especially as like you know the main event i mean like i bet it's like is there a lot of pressure when you're like the main event at a bonnaroo or main event at the like you have to put on this fucking show that's worth it? You know, we don't ever really think of it that way. We work so hard, and we started from parties, house parties and things, and it's just like you get tunnel vision. Yeah. I know you understand what I'm talking about,

where it's just night after night. You're doing your thing. You're getting better at it. You're learning every night with feedback from the audience. And maybe at some point you're like, well, we're just doing this for ourselves, and that seems to be working just fine. Yeah. And that was it. But I tell you one thing I learned, and this happened twice at Bonnaroo.

I don't ever want to follow Robert Plant again. What? What happened? He's so fucking great. I know, dude. He's still got it. And one was Alison Krauss. Oh.

Oh, the Krauss and Oh. You know, the- Oh, the Krauss and Plant. Yeah, the Raising Sand Band. Even the soft side of it is like- I tell you, he's still got 80,000 people singing Black Dog with him, whether it's acoustic or not. And that's the thing. I mean, that guy, you know, he's a mythical legend. He's a god.

Did you meet him? I've never met him i'm just too scared really i mean led zeppelin is one of the reasons i do what i do i'm not so crazy but it's all subjective you know you understand it's all subjective i'm just really grateful that after 35 years i still you know managed to have fun out there and. And you can come see a show and experience it for the first time, something I've done 3,000 times. Good, bad, medium, sick, in great health, high as a dog, sober as a dog. What's the sickest you've ever been at a show? I think the sickest was I came down from Richmond.

We were just starting out as a band, and I'd gone home to get my wisdom teeth pulled. And I basically turned around and came back, and the thing got infected. I had dry sockets or whatever, and I just was so sick. I had a bucket behind my amp on stage. I'd just turn around and spit blood in and throw up in. But, you know, we get through the show.

Fuck, yeah. Damn, that's rock and roll. You got to do it. I know. Seriously. I mean, like, who else is going to do it? Like, you ever get so sick they had to have a fill-in, like, last minute? Hell no.

No. I won't. No. No. I've never missed a show. Yeah, you've never missed a show. And this is what you have to learn. It's like, even if you cancel a show because the promoter fucked up or like you know the stage is really

unsafe or something we want the show to go on because anyone who's there and is disappointed when the show doesn't go on you know it's the band yeah all they know is the band didn't play yeah you know they don't know that the promoter you know had a shitty stage yeah they don't know that the guitar player was about to get electrocuted and that they wouldn't cough up the money for an electrician. So the show must go on. And that's like something you can learn from the Grateful Dead.

Robbie Taylor, their stage manager, he's proud when the show goes on despite whatever sort of meteorological event is happening. Because that's why we're doing it. They come and we come and we come together the show happens and everybody's happy you go i want to go back to it's fascinating to me like when you when you're talking about going back to the cap and doing like three days in the cap you're like you know at first it was like i guess you said it was

supposed to be acoustic or what'd you say yeah we had planned on doing wood which is us sort of sitting down and playing acoustic guitars and and it's quiet and i just i thought to myself why would we do that here we haven't played new york in a long time and the cap is like it's a bullseye gig yeah you know a lot of people would come from a lot farther away to see us at the cap because of its history and the vibe and the fact that we played there 27 years ago it's sort of a recipe for interest so why would we want to sit down and and play beautiful music we should come in there and stomp them dude you guys did that talking heads cover on sunday fuck because we do it too i'm like nope i'm retiring that because you guys fucking just

destroyed that shit, dude. Well, we love this. JB is a great singer. He's a great singer. And Talking Heads, that's one of our sacramental bands. You ever meet Burn? Once. What happened?

He was as nice as could be. And I was just like... Do you know your band? No. No. Oh, no. Really? No, no, no was it was lucky he was playing at the warfield in san

francisco and our usual bus driver yogi was driving for david byrne and i was with a girlfriend in san francisco i went to see the show and i'm like that's yogi's bus oh you recognized the bus i recognized the bus so i knocked on the door and yog Yogi's like, oh, come on up and meet David. And came on the bus and met David Byrne, and he was as nice as nice could be. Is he, what was he, is he, like, you could tell he's just, like, genius-minded, like? You know, no, he's just, he's a normal guy, you know? It's like, we see people on stage,

and maybe that's, we tend to project that that must be what they're like. But that's the guy's art. Yeah. You know, and he works long and hard to create that art. And it's pretty amazing. Why do you think we put musicians on pedestals in this country? Wow, that is a deep question.

We could spend a whole podcast talking about that. Let's talk about it. I think it has a lot to do with the blues. And I think it starts with the blues because the blues is an American form. And if you trace it back, it's a messenger delivering a message that resonates with the listener. You know, my baby left me, it hurt so bad. Okay, my baby left me, I hurt so bad. I totally agree with that guy.

He's saying the way I feel, and that means something. And the thing about the blues is if you're in love, you still love the blues because he's saying my baby left me and it hurts so bad, and you're thinking, well, I remember when that happened. I'm in love now. The blues feels pretty good. But as the blues morphed into rock and roll

and the media began to push it as a product, there were a lot of trappings associated with it. Limousines, groupies, private jets, huge, huge funds. So it's like... But Sunhouse wasn't getting like that fucking... No, no, no. I'm talking about the blues being the beginnings of rock and roll and then rock and roll with like Elvis and then the seventies artists,

you know, and Zeppelin and Bowie and limos and glam. And I think we put them on a pedestal because at the core of it, they're all saying a relatable message, like you said, but because of the trappings and, you know, a lot of artists went broke in the 70s and 80s

trying to make themselves look bigger than they were because like that jealousy thing is like let's go see this artist he's huge everybody wants a winner yeah you know but even david bowie's like i didn't realize all those cocaine parties and limos and all the trappings of rock stardom that I was enjoying in 73 and 74 that they were coming out of my wallet. You know, I'm out here acting like I'm rich and doing this is actually breaking my bank. So he literally went bankrupt and had to kind of start over again. But, you know, I think we put musicians on pedestals mainly because they're relatable and but also because they like exemplify something we might want for ourselves yeah that's true do you think uh low-key under the radar like your band kind of slipped under the radar enough where like you didn't you weren't in

the paparazzi all every day and stuff but you're still making the same or doing just as well well like do you think that helped you it did it helped us have a career yeah you know it helped with the longevity but none of that stuff ever meant much to us you know we we would never wear makeup when we do something like letterman or or what about the limos and stuff and the big tour buses like was that the did you always want to be that well the tour bus is definitely something that you strove for because we were putting our lives in danger driving for hours and hours after shows.

You guys would drive? Oh, yeah. In the beginning years? Who was the driver? We all were. Who drove the late night shift? Well, I mean, everybody took a turn. The only time I didn't like driving

was we used to have an old Bluebird school bus that didn't have a first gear. And that thing scared the piss out of me. Hold on. You had a big ass. So what years was this? Was it after college or like? It was in the beginning. In the beginning.

And you had a. What made you scared the shit out of you? I just, you know, it's like a fucking giant school bus. And we cleared all the seats out and had beanbags and a cage in the back for the gear. It didn't have a first gear, so we'd have to push start the motherfucker a time or two, park it, back it up an incline so we could roll it down the hill and pop the clutch. Did you pull a trailer too, or did you put all the gear in the back?

No, the gear was in the back. Did you ever have any breakdowns? All the time. What was the worst breakdown? Probably the last one. We left it on the side of the road between Richmond and Charlottesville. What happened? It just, you know, it was held together with chewing gum and Q-tips.

Oh, my God. So, you know, it had just, it had had it. We'd ragged it out, but it served us well. Yeah. But, yeah, no, we all did everything. I mean, I'll admit that I don't think I did my share of, like, carrying stuff up and down stairs. Yeah, that's fine.

No, it wasn't fine. I was a punk about it. Oh, were you a dick about it? Like, you didn't want to do it? Were you entitled? No, I wouldn't think I was entitled. I was just more interested in talking to girls. And the rest of the guys are humping that shit up and down the stairs.

I'm talking to some girl that I never had a chance with. Yeah. But these are the lessons we learn. But we wanted a career, and we knew that going after all that other stuff wasn't necessarily going to guarantee us a lifetime of being able to play music together and having fun. Were the guys pissed that you guys would never grab the gear? Oh, totally.

They hated me me who would get the most pissed off probably hauser because he was the king of tetris we called mikey the king of tetris he was the one that could pack pack the gear the best way and he'd pack it in such a way in the van or in the cube truck that he had this thing called the sleeper which was like a long anvil case for drums or something and that would be in the center and have things stacked up on either side of it to the roof of the van or the truck and he could roll a mattress or a blanket out and then like crawl in there was like a bus bunk but you had to sort of snake your way into it oh my god i was in the sleeper one time i got food poisoning in memphis and the next gig was in suwanee tennessee ever played there oh no

university of the south it's beautiful but is it that trip from memphis i mean food poisoning happens fast when you get it it was like what'd you eat what do you think it was pineapple juice from the bar i was like food poison for pineapple yeah it was it just hadn't happened instantly i was like just projectile out of every orifice and they let me sleep in the sleeper you know poor dave and i remember sleeping for a while and then waking up and knowing that i had to puke and i had to worm my way out of this sleeper and i was like i gotta be a pull over and poor todd nance our drummer was in the passenger seat and i never seen him move that fast yeah the van stopped he threw the door open he leapt out and i like barely got out in time you know where does all this stuff in us come from i don't get it whether

we're ejecting it into a mud bath in calistoga or or out the side of the van on the road somewhere between memphis and swanee tennessee do you guys still do band bonding after all these years like say when you do these weekend things you fly in for the town you guys still do band bonding after all these years? Say when you do these weekend things, you fly in for the town. Do you guys still have dinner together and stuff and try to get back to, hey, we're a band, we're family? I don't think we talk about it in those terms, but I know that everybody's happier without the rigors of the road. I mean, we've done over 3,000 shows.

There were times in Vans years where we did 250 shows. But how do you keep the bond? It's always there now? The bond is on stage, and the bond is in rehearsal, and the bond is in humor. And that's the thing about this new Panic Touring model is everybody's got a great sense of humor. You know, we're all a bunch of clowns.

We like making each other laugh. You know, that's, you know, as well as anyone. I hung out with JoJo for the first time, and like seeing his, he's a fucking character fucking character he's intelligent and he's a character and you know he helped start fat possum records i didn't know that yeah you should have him on your podcast yeah you think jojo would be on jojo would be great oh what why did he start did he start it during panic like what he was living in Oxford, Mississippi. Oh, shit. He's a fan of the blues.

He's a fan of the great piano players. He loves Professor Longhair. Oh, Longhair. I don't know why I was picturing his bust at Tipitina's. Yeah. Yeah, JoJo loves that stuff. But he's got a great sense of humor, and so does JB. And everybody's sense of humor has bounced back. Yeah.

Because we're not constantly exposed to each other. We're not in a 45-foot-long tube rolling down the road from Boise to Des Moines to L.A., you know, wherever. Yeah, I bet. And that's where most of these guys, I feel like, get angry with each other because it's like a month and a half in on the tour. And everyone's just like kind of just irritated. You're in a big cube like you don't have space you know it's like a relationship you know those little things your girlfriend does yeah that are cute at first yeah and then a year and a half later you're like will

you stop doing that i'm gonna kill myself you know there's the smell of that guy's feet or how this guy never throws his tuna fish sandwich away why do i find it under the passenger seat three days later you know we all have these little things every single one of us and they get old when you're compressed into a tiny little space are you more vocal about it now than you used to be vocal about what just like not like suppressing the fucking smell the dirty feet or something that doesn't happen we all have our own rooms we shower up we go to sound you still bussing tours no we just fly in fucking love it that's why you gotta do it thursday through sunday i mean that's who's i mean like you guys are a band where anyone will show up on a monday or tuesday or blah blah but i feel like it's less straining well it's just

great we get to play venues that we like we set up and do a weekend so people can fly in from wherever um and we get to go deep into our catalog yeah so we can do stuff we haven't played in five years if someone says do you guys realize that you stopped playing this song we're like why did we stop playing and then we look at the master list of songs and we're like oh because it's not on the master list how did this get left off the list do Do you have a master list every night? There's a system. There's always been a system. Can you tell me about that? What is it? Is it a secret? It's secret.

There's a movie where it shows us throwing darts at a giant set list. Really? But that was a comedy movie. I feel like there's a lot of pressure. It's like three days at the cab. It's a special moment. 27 years since you've been there.

Like, I feel like that's a very stressful set to write, right? Not really. Not when you have three shows. You know, we're going to play 70 songs. So you're going to play everything in the three days? Yeah, we're going to play. Or as much as you can. We're going to give them something that they want to hear,

something that we want to play, something that they don't know they want to hear, and maybe something they don't want to hear. Have you guys always done that where one guy comes out at a time that was so cool i watched it from the balcony at the cap and well you mean we just amble on stage oh it was so cool when uh dude yeah it was really cool and how all the light it's just you guys have a great show and the light the whole the whole home team guys are just so cool. And Timmerman's on the road with you. He's the man. Has it always been a family like that?

Yeah, it has. And because that's how we started it. That's the thing. And you understand this because you have a family. And you have extended your family. And it's a large nuclear family. And you've got those Scandinavian dudes. They're family.

Yeah. You know, and you got Caleb and you got, you're building your family as you go and it gets bigger and, and it's a team. I mean, you know, we all know the importance of team building and, and when it happens organically and like job descriptions are sort of embraced by individuals and everybody does their job. And, you know, you're the guy, it's your name, you're Andy Frasco. And so you don't even have to lead when you have a great team. Everybody does what they're supposed to do and everybody pulls their weight and out you go and you put on a show and, you know, you don't have to worry about anything other than doing what God put you on earth to do, which is play music, make people feel good.

How hard was it? Was it hard to play, say, a place like Cap where you played 27 years ago without Hauser? Yeah. I mean, he's always there. It's so funny. I'm not the only person in the band, and this has happened in the studio also, as well as on stage. I'm not the only person in the band and this has happened in the studio also as well as on stage i'm not the only person in the band to have walked off stage and go you

guys hear that phantom guitar and they're like sometimes they're like no sometimes we're all walked off stage just like pale like you where did that hauser sound come from you know because i'm using monitor wedges. Some of the other guys are using in-ears. You know, it's like, what was that? Was that some sort of bizarre phantom harmony? I mean, who knows? Do you believe in that?

I believe in that there are a lot of things we haven't been able to measure scientifically yet. And just because we can't measure them scientifically does not mean they do not exist. Amen to that. You know, and it's like the same thing when people are feeling anxious. You could feel that stuff. Oh, absolutely. There's no difference than if another spirit's in the building that you, maybe you're alone, but you feel the energy. That's right.

That's so crazy. I mean, just like magnetic tape records things by shaping the ferric oxide on the mylar, it records sounds by altering the shape. Who's to say that stones and walls and things around us can't record things? I mean, emotions are – that's some serious energy. Like you said, people – there's shared energy. I mean, when a crowd is going off, it's like it's feeding on itself because everybody feels that and they notice the energy and then they notice

that everyone else is noticing it and then it doubles and redoubles and then the band picks up on it and, you know, finds a gear they didn't know they had on stage. I mean, that's, to me, that's life. It's like the same thing when you guys went into some, I don't know, excuse me, I don't know any of your song names, but you went into this slow song in the middle of the set, and you finished the song, you had the big ovation,

and then it takes a breath, and then it comes back. You know, that second ovation? It's that spirit. It gives you the chills like that's right same thing with hauser if you feel the tone like you knew he was in the building that's right i mean we're here in a physical form together and then some kind of transmutation happens and we don't know but we like to think that we have an idea. And every now and then when we get one of those feelings, just as human beings, it's like we scratch our head and maybe we know that this time physically right here

isn't the only thing we're going to experience. I like that. I'm okay with the idea of the light switch being turned off and I rot and go into the ground and I don't have consciousness. Have you accepted that? Accepted what? Like there's the mystery of the light switch being turned off and I rot and go into the ground and I don't have consciousness. Have you accepted that? Accepted what? Like there's the mystery of it.

I'm still trying to figure out if I'm like scared of death or not. Well, it's a coin and that's something I used to talk to with my first girlfriend. She was definitely scared of death. And in my stupid scientific logical mind, I was like, okay, well let's say there's consciousness after death, physical death. And we're sitting there going, oh, well, guess I'm dead now. And okay, what do I do next?

I'm hoping that there'll be an answer. And that's okay. So there's consciousness. And maybe we miss our corporeal being wandering around on terra firma. Maybe we're like, this is so much wandering around on terra firma. Yeah. Maybe we're like, this is so much better. Fuck that body. That thing weighed me down.

It stunk, and I had to clean it all the time. Fucking afro. Dirty feet and shit. Dirty feet and afro. But then the other thing is, and somehow this did not placate her and her fear of the unknown. If it is a light switch being turned off and there's no consciousness in our brain pans then we're not going to sit there and think wow this sucks we're dead because that would imply consciousness if it's off it's just off and we don't know so

so consciousness is over but you're the energy like we felt in that room in the cap and you feel it with the people that you feel like, oh, no, that energy is still there. So that energy is not conscious. Right. This is just a little logic problem I work up for, you know, to deal with like the scary scariness of, of death. Personally, I feel like all these questions we have about death and what comes after, they aren't going to be important if we retain consciousness. Yeah. I think we'll probably get a lot of answers or it'll be like going from middle school to high school. It's like exciting and you've graduated and it's like, whatever the supreme beings that give us the lessons we're supposed to learn, they'll be like, okay, well, you did good down there on Earth, and now get ready for this one.

Because here comes Mars or whatever. Whatever the next thing is. But I guess we're just trying to better ourselves and learn lessons and make progress and evolve as humans. I don't necessarily believe that the light switch is turned off. That would be Stephen Hawking. It's like,'s like click boom no more consciousness no more great ideas no more humor no more comedy from me yeah and if that's the case i won't know so it has to be okay yeah but if there's something else and i can like can i go back and see what my old band is doing? Yeah. Sure. But make sure they don't hear you.

Okay, wink, wink. I mean, I've had dreams with Hauser. Yeah? I had dreams where Hauser came in, and I'm like, but you're dead. And he's like, yeah, no, it's cool. And I'm like, okay, it is cool. Well, let's play some music. And it was just like, fine. Yeah, but it's a dream, you know?

But it's like but those dreams that feel so real it feels pretty real but i'm one of those people i've never had dreams that i'm like is this a dream or not it's always a dream for me sometimes it's a nightmare yeah you know but uh yeah those dreams and i'm not the only one to have those dreams no with hauser so oh other guys in the band too sure yeah i mean we just missed the guy have you guys ever had the same dream same night no that's parallel shit yeah that's some crazy stuff yeah i've had a same dream with my band really we're all had the same dream what fucking weird tell me uh it was basically a show and we all had a really shitty promoter

and he was it was everyone had the different reason why he was a shitty promoter but we all had we all could say the same story where the venue was what the circumstance was it was crazy and that made me believe in like quantum physics and stuff definitely Definitely. It's crazy. Yeah. You know, I mean, I'm a firm believer and we make our own reality and words call worlds into being. Yeah. You know, you have to be careful with what you say, especially to other people

because whatever lens they're wearing, you know, I've said things to people with the best of intent and... Whatever lens they're wearing. Yeah, whatever colored lens, you you know some people uh you know you can say that was great like that song was great it was my favorite thing you did in your concert tonight and if they're wearing the kind of lens that some people wear they're like that's the only song you like exactly that. That's exactly right. And they get mad.

Or, you know, I've had to learn, you know, maybe everybody should learn this, but it definitely was a tough lesson for me when someone's like, oh, man, I feel really bad about something I did. And I go, oh, don't feel bad. You can't say that. You can't say that to kids because then it's like, so you're disallowing my feelings? I'm like, okay, snowflake. You know, you're in control of your feelings but some people i mean i would like it if somebody told me not to feel bad when i thought i had fucked up yeah but that's just me that's me too i mean like going back to when we first met i mean like i need someone to tell me that i need to focus on the songs and not just partying.

And I need someone like you who experienced it and went through the same thing, not maybe in different avenues, but like... Decades. Decades. Go ahead, say what you mean. You know what I mean, though? But like, I needed someone like you to slap me.

With love. With love. That's all it is. I mean, we're all just trying to grow each other i think and the people who aren't trying to help you grow shouldn't be in your life that's right and some people you know i think they think they're trying to help but they're not doing it the right way and that's what empathy is about is like trying to give the other person some space to be different and to understand that your way of doing things might not work for them.

So to communicate something that's helpful because, you know, I genuinely want to help you. But I have to be careful how I communicate so that it lands with you in a way that doesn't piss you off or make you feel shame. And that's like, that's one of the big challenges. I think, you know or make you feel shame yeah and that's like that's one of the big challenges i think you know if there are other worlds and we do continue on you know after we discorporate um it's like the earth is a place where you try to learn how to communicate with people who think in vastly different ways than you might yeah and were

you successful did you make enemies did you salvage relationships did you go the extra mile to like ensure that you were empathetic towards someone else and their needs or did you get upset with them because they didn't take your feedback properly what about kimok does he does he we have kimok ste Kimmock on the show tonight, your pal. I love Steve Kimmock. He's an alien. Yeah, I've heard him called that. I've heard him called a monk, a guitar monk.

I refer to him as a guitar ninja because I think that ninjas are stealthy and silent, and you don't realize that they've mastered something until they're... Cutting you in half. Cutting you in half with the flick of a wrist. And, you know, Steve was like this mythical creature that I did not really encounter in the live arena until his trio band opened up a bunch of shows for Government Mule when I was playing with Government Mule around the turn of the millennium. Kim Oc Trio? Yeah, it was like,

God, who was it? Who was on that bill? It was Steve and some serious chop-worthy, I mean, it was like Guitar Hero instrumentals. And it worked perfectly with Government Mule, and I was just like, whoa, Zadazi. Yikes. That's some serious

stuff. Did you know of him yet were you oh i totally knew of him i'd heard you weren't his homie yet i know i'd never even met him that's when i met him and uh and then it just uh back out here i had moved out here and he came he was living out east and he came through and did some stuff at tri with bob weir for that internet tv show he was he'd come in and play and just it's a joy to play with him. And as I got to know him and I got to know his son John and his wife Jen and their kids, and they moved to Sebastopol where I live,

and we became family friends, and I just wanted to work with him. We played a lot of gigs together. Sometimes it was Grateful Dead stuff. Sometimes it was Steve's own music um and he's just he's one of those people that makes me want to learn from him i want to learn and i don't want to ask i don't want to ask to be taught and he doesn't want to teach but he has an incredible amount of patience and an incredible amount of skill and empathy and he's so musical that he likes the unpredictability of people that aren't at his level and you know like a blockhead rock bass player like me he'll throw a jig at me like an you know or some scottish reel you know and it's like really easy here it goes just jump in and hang

on and i'm like brick clunk clam but he's over there smiling and adjusting because he's he understands the importance of breaking rules and he's so incredibly musical that he i think he he doesn't want people who know all the rules to play with him yeah i think he likes a challenge of some chaotic unpredictability. Oh, my God. Did I tell you he sat in with us in Jam Cruise? Steve did. And he's running around with us. That's great.

He did the Frasco band run. The left, right, left, right? Left, right, left, right. I couldn't believe it. For me, it's like, hello, Mr. Kim Hawk. I respect him that way because he's such a fucking legend. And I asked to sit in because I asked everyone to sit in. Whoever wants to sit in. And he's like, yeah, I'll sit in.

And he shows up, shows up early, does his thing. His wife is super cool. Or is the girl who runs. It's Jen. That's his wife. She's so cool. And so it's like, Steve, you're going with the kids. You're playing with the kids.

And then he loved it. I felt like it was out of his comfort zone to do this thing. But it's like something he already knows. Like, you know, our music isn't fucking, you know, science. But it's different. And for him, I think that's what fills his well. That's what fills his well just as much as like playing incredibly beautiful or deeply microtonal, you know, challenging music. Yeah.

Because that's one of the things that I really liked about him is one of those Voodoo Dead shows. I just I got up in his face and made him rock. You know, I didn't go like get my face in his face. But the band was getting heavy. And he pulled out that Gibson Explorer. I can't remember who makes it. It's an Explorer-shaped guitar. And just you see him clench his teeth and just start just killing it. And it was so much fun.

I mean, he went up to Alaska a few weeks ago with Jerry Joseph and John, his son, and myself. Yeah, you guys are in a band together, aren't you? Yeah, he loves Jerry Joseph. He's known Jerry. Jerry has sung for Zero. Steve and Jerry have been cohorts for a long, long, long, long time. You should ask him about it. Do you think Jerry will be on the show? Jerry would love to do your show.

Yeah. Who else was it that I was going to ask about the show? I want to get john on the show too john um kimmock his kid what's oh john morgan yeah john morgan yeah oh he'd love to do it everybody would love to do your show but steve's gonna be great uh steve's just what type of music is this band you're in with steve and johnny well it's jerry joseph songs okay so he had the song or you guys didn't write them together so jerry wrote them and then he's you're backing them up you're adding your flavor yeah i mean steve was i believe steve played on the very

first little women record which was jerry's first band i think that record came out in 1984 maybe even earlier um it's called life's just bitching and it's got steve playing guitar on some tracks and david lindley playing guitar on others and so they've known each other for a a lifetime and steve has the utmost respect respect for not only jerry's songwriting but his guitar playing um and together it's great and basically all john and i had to do as a rhythm section was just play big giant monoliths of rhythm stuff i mean and i saw john break through his i'm from vermont and i play in weird time signatures thing and when in the light bulb went off he's like oh smash yeah and he just got this grin like like someone just gave fred flintstone a a stone hammer

you know and it was great but that's what musicians do is like it's it's empathy really it's musical empathy like we were talking about earlier they do what's required for the person who needs that. You know, in this case, we're backing up Jerry Joseph. And so he brings it hard and heavy, and so we followed him hard and heavy. And it makes him happy, and then you get that redoubling of energy that we talked about. Then he's out talking on the bus for seven hours throughout the night. Boom. My voice feels terrible.

Well, maybe you shouldn't drink coffee all night and then red bull after the show chain smoke a pack of marlboros and talk about i mean look look at jerry on this thing your podcast gonna need to be two or three parts because the stories are true yeah and they are myriad yeah i can't wait to get him on i mean do you look at john morgan like you look at duane i look at them differently but in the same way i love playing with both of them dude duane has this like no expression fucking it was great to see duane play with your band like that's the bruce hampton thing is no eye contact on stage no and we try we try as hard the only time you'll see Hampton thing is no eye contact on stage. No, and we try as hard. The only time you'll see

Dwayne and I make eye contact is either between songs to tell a joke or something like, in D.C., I heard the weirdest yell from the crowd between either a really quiet part

of a song or between songs. I heard this girl yell, suck my dick, I love you. I don't know who she was talking to, i had to go tell dwayne like did you hear that some girl just yelled suck my dick i love you i'm like i've heard a lot of shit come out of the audience but uh no go back to that dwayne and john um comparison well like as far as like playing bass they're so different you know but there's so much fun to play with because they respond i mean finding the pocket isn't an issue you know this is

the thing i mean very seldom have i been unable to find a pocket with a drummer there's plenty of times where i feel like i'm the only person searching for the pocket. But in a truly compatible drum and bass relationship, we both find the pocket and we keep the pocket. And then we got that pocket and we get to be ourselves. And that's like with Dwayne and with John and with people like Wally Ingram, the pocket is right there. And the pocket stays there and we're aware that the pocket's there. And it's no problem to maintain the pocket. And then we get to be ourselves.

And then the conversation starts happening. And then when we're paying attention to what the singer or the guitar player's doing, when Jimmy is soloing in an improv section, me and Dwayne are having a whole conversation that's based on what Jimmy's like. You hear that shit he just played? Fuck yeah, I heard that. Can you believe that shit? Hold on a second. He's going to, yep, yep, here it comes.

All right, get him. And that's the same thing that would happen with John, especially when the rock block got moved aside playing with Jerry up in Alaska. And like all of a sudden, here comes Quaalude Thunder. Boop-a-da-boop-a-da-boop-a-da-bam. Yes, that's right, folks. Like, all of a sudden, here comes Quaalude Thunder. Boop-a-da-boop-a-da-boop-a-da-bam. Yes, that's right, folks. I'm telling you right here on the World Saving Podcast, John Morgan Kimmock fucking plays some rock and roll drums.

Dude, really? Bet your soul on it. Yes. Oh, man. I got to sit with John. But I'd like to see Dwayne and John play together. But apparently there was, I don't know who this person was, but it's like a hard to please young blues prodigy kind of person yeah that either duane had the gig first and relinquished it

to john or it was the other way around you might want to ask them about that but they won't name names but they did like pass the baton and and have to suffer with whoever this person was. So they all went through the same meat grinder. Oh my God, Dave, it's been so fun. Thank you for doing this. Hey, have fun talking to Steve. Hey Steve, you're going to love this Frasco guy. And I've seen you.

You don't wear shoes on stage either. Maybe that's just out of empathy for Jerry Joseph, but we got a whole barefoot and dirty foot clan going here. It's so funny because you're not barefoot. Are you ever barefoot? If it's really hot and it's an outdoor gig, I'll go barefoot, but it makes my feet flat.

Look at what they got to hold up, man. Come on. You're a good guy, Dave. Dave, I got one more thing. I'm not going to see you for a minute. So do you have any advice for me? You know how my career is going right now and how like i'm in that i'm on the next step i feel and um you know i'm doing i'm finally selling out three to four hundred five hundred seat rooms like

you have any advice for me what i need to focus on on these these next couple years yeah be true to yourself and and keep your band as a unit yeah you. How do you do that? It's empathy. It's understanding. Those guys are your team. They're doing it here for you. So if you get upset with someone, don't hold it in. Don't get resentful. Remind them that they're doing a good job

and that you appreciate it and keep the team thing going and you guys have each other's backs because it's gonna get weird man yeah you know it's like you get to a certain point where you're like we just we just won the race don't relax no keep the team together because there's another one yeah it's a marathon it's no sprinting in this in this industry and let's make another record oh no that's already done we We're going to do it. I didn't want to say on the podcast, but yeah, we're going to start making it.

Good. You told me, the last time I talked to you, I'm like, yeah, I'm about to start the record. It's like, well, you already fucked up. You should have already started making the record. That's right. When you're mixing your record, you're writing the songs for the next one.

Damn. It's so true, though, right? Because it takes a year to make. Yeah, and in this day and age where, the next one damn that's it's so uh it's so true though right because it takes a year to make yeah and in this day and age where who knows what the accepted format for music will be next year just keep writing songs and recording them i mean okay you got a whole record that's great you got 12 songs that's 12 months of letting your fans know you're working on their behalf yeah put a song out yeah hey guys i know we go you don't think oversaturation is not a problem not with your product i think it might be if you talk to a

promoter about markets yeah you know if you don't continue to expand and move into bigger rooms then you can run into oversaturation and you get stuck in a rut but hey man it's a big world you travel all over the world you play new year Year's in China, for Pete's sake. You don't have to worry about that. Keep making music. Keep making good product. It better be good or else I'm coming after you. Let's go listen to Kim Mock.

And thanks for visiting me on your day off, buddy. I love you. I love you, too. Have fun. Love you, Dave. Woo! All right. Love you Dave Woo Alright Thanks Dave for opening the show with me Always love his

Rendezvous We always see each other in random fucking cities But thanks But next up on the interview hour We have Dave's buddy Steve Kimmock Yes a true rock and roll legend. He was born in Pennsylvania, spent a lot of his life on the West Coast,

in and near San Francisco. He's been in a number of bands, including Quicksilver Messenger Service, Zero, and his own band. Hey, Chris, why don't you play some Kimmock while I'm hyping him up? He also plays in, Dave and John, his son, are in a band together with Jerry Joseph now. That's pretty fucking exciting. Those guys all in one room. God, that gives me chills. Those guys are all super talented.

But he's also played with a bunch of people from the Grateful Dead. Yes. He's got crazy stories. We talk about fucking Bob Weir and it's just you're going to love this interview. We got the opportunity for him to sit in with us and it was amazing. It was crazy actually because you know Kim Ox is normally

very mellow and shit. But I got him running around on stage and doing the Frasco dance and shit. So that was dope. So ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy the man of the hour, Steve motherfucking Kimbock. here we are alive with, with Steve fucking Kim Hawk. How we doing, dude? Awesome.

I don't think you know this, but Rick Vargas produced my, Rick Vargas and Dave Schools produced my record. And he's my guy. I actually did know that. Really? That was the one connection I made. I went, oh, right, right, yeah. They said, you're going to go do the one connection I made I went, oh right, right, yeah They said, you're gonna go do this thing with this dude And I'm like, oh yeah, it's like, right

Because, yeah, because schools Schools How close are you with schools? Is that your buddy? Yeah You guys are in a new band together, right? Let's back up a minute I've known Dave for a long time Yeah Let's back up a minute.

I've known Dave for a long time. Yeah. Okay. And we are, in fact, geographically close. Yeah. Living sort of on opposite sides of the tracks in the same town. Little tiny town. Yeah, Sebastopol, California. So I'm kind of more over on the input side by the highway,

and he's a little more over on the output side by the woods. Yeah. But yeah, it's beautiful. Do you like that area? Yeah. Do I like it in California? That area, because it seems like a lot of musicians move out there, like Sebastopol, San Rafael.

I do. I'm on my way out. I'm bailing out. Where are you going? Back to Pennsylvania. Nice. Bethlehem? Exactly.

Yeah. The eldest of my littles. I have four boys. Two adults and two in school still. And the eldest of the littles, Skyler, is back there in the Lehigh Valley School of Performing Arts doing super, super well. He's living with my cousin. And so he's back there just kind of like doing fabulously well,

but we're not under the same roof. And so we're packing up in California, moving back to PA to finish the school thing back there for them. It's the same school that my eldest of the bigs, son John, went to. Yeah. My favorite drummer. Yeah, you play with him a lot.

Was that the plan for him to be a drummer? Did he choose to be? No, hell no. No? No, he came up with that all by himself. Yeah, he just started dragging stuff out of the cupboard, you know, long before he could walk. He just started crawling around on the floor

and realized there was a, you know, like a little door that he could open and had pots and pans in there and he dug the pots and pans out and grabbed a wooden spoon and just started hitting stuff. Yeah. So very, very, very young. Yeah, he's been any of your other kids uh do music you have four of them yeah yeah so there's there's there's johnny and he's already professional to the point where he's like

over it yeah he's like it's like i'm working with a dance troupe. So he's doing... So Johnny does the music thing on all levels just fantastically. Miles, the next eldest, is a fantastic guitar player, but has no... either aspiration to the profession of it or just sort of tolerance for the scene. Because he plays real well, but he doesn't care. It's not like he needs to be in a band or something

like that. He's content to wander the outback of Australia barefoot. You know, he's just happy doing that. What do you think explains tolerance for the scene? Like, for people who don't know the scene what do you have to deal with on a day to day basis

no no no I don't mean like I don't mean the music scene specifically but just you know traveling no just working in white man world.

Yeah. Basically, you know, I mean, it's, there's, there's no usual way to put it. It's like,

well, come on, you know, you go to school and you, you know, you do what you're told and you learn to conform and then you go get a job and, you know, all that.

That's not him. You know, and it was, it was, it was, it was barely me, you know, I mean, I'm miles and it was, it was, it was, it was barely me, you know, I mean, Miles and I are as much alike as we could be in, in, in a lot of ways. We both be fine being entirely off the grid.

Yeah. It's just like participation in society as it is now or just the idea that you're going to hop in there and roll up your sleeves and somehow – whatever that is that they expect you to do simultaneously, conform and compete just as a person. He could give a shit. I'm kind of proud of him for that. It's kind of rock and roll in itself, you know? Like not giving a shit. Really. Just like not one single fuck given, which is fine. Do you give a fuck?

No, I don't really. I really, really, really, really don't. When did you learn that? Did you always not give a fuck? I mean, you're very like, whenever I see your name. I don't care. I just. What do you care about?

I just don't care. I love my children. I love my family and my friends. I love music and being able to play music and play music with people. And I love the, the struggle of, you know, staying on some kind of a path where I'm maintaining, you know, what I feel is like an authentic relationship with the instrument where it's just me

trying to understand things through that lens maybe of music. And to cut to the chase, what it's brought me to is an appreciation for harmony in its ancient sense of things as they are together, you know? So I like, I like just seeing the, the, the balance in things. And, and when, when people make, you know, like, oh, we're on the boat, we're doing the whole the whole rock and roll

thing and everything and it's great but it's like it's a little out of balance you know in some way you know I'd prefer to

maintain more of a balance in that do you tour as much anymore are you always gigging still or what do you do are you doing more records

oh well I'm always working always working you know but what's the right records? Well, I'm always working. Always working. You know, but what's the right way to say it? As much as

necessary, as little as possible. Again, I do have kids and I would just love to spend all that time with them or be able to have them on the road all the time. It's not always possible. So I got to work to keep the lights on and I have to play to not go nuts.

Yeah. You know, so that kind of works out. But at the same time, um, you know, At the same time, most of the scene and the stuff that goes on in it on some level to me is horrifying. Explain it. What is horrifying about it? This is the way people, you know, like sometimes, well, growing up, you know,

I got in a band when I was a kid And then I would go And I would go to these parties and stuff And I would see people doing the stuff that they would do Whatever they were You know, like getting too high Or just like I don't You just didn't feel like it was about the music?

It was about the party? Yeah, it was just like There was a lot of stuff, man It was just like so crazy Yeah, it was just like, there was a lot of stuff, man. It was just like so crazy. Yeah. I could barely, I mean, you can barely explain it. I have to go back and start like stacking this stuff up, you know. Can everybody, being the last guy still standing on stage in some bar

and everybody, I saw the entire band, like dive behind their amps. And I was like, what's happening? I realized it was gunfire and stuff. You know, to play it in some fucking biker bar in Pennsylvania. Oh, right, right, right. Get down. You know, like that.

You know, like that. You know, that kind of stuff. And I didn't have any support doing this when I was a kid so it was very very you know

close to the bone there was no money there was no there was no nothing yeah there was no there was no food there was no clothes

there was no shelter it was just you got your guitar go ahead yeah you know try not to you know try not to end too poorly. Did you ever get into any drugs?

Did you ever take drugs? Oh, not hard drugs. Not hard drugs. No, I smoked pot all my life. You know, and enjoyed heroic doses of psychedelics as a youth. Can you talk about that? Sure. And then didn't do it for years and then realized as an adult that there is functional adult uses for psychedelics.

Just not in such incredible dosages. Not like by a fucking pound. What about when you're working with Grateful Dead? Was that about the music? Was it about the party? A lot of that...

It was never... That part of it was never about the party for me. And it's some of that. My early exposure to that stuff was part of what horrified me about the scene. Cause it was just, it was just too fucking crazy. Can you give me his story?

Like what was the craziest shit that you've seen on that, on that run? No, I mean, imagine being 20 years old and being at a fucking crazy. Give me his story. What was the craziest shit that you've seen on that run? No, I mean, imagine being 20 years old and being at a fucking party and people come in. Some girl comes up to you and introduces herself. Hi, she tells you her name. I'm having Bob Weir's abortion. And you go, what are you talking about?

You know, like, is this do I need to know this? Were they rock stars? Oh, everybody was a fucking rock star. Really? Yeah. No, it was scary. My introduction to that scene was through Keith and Donna,

who had just departed the band. And I'm assuming it was... The way I thought that happened was they just got booted because Jerry and Keith were too close with the heroin. Yeah. It wasn't LSD or anything. It was the heroin. I don't know if we give a fuck about the heroin. Yeah. You know? It wasn't LSD or anything. It was the heroin.

I don't know if we give a fuck about LSD. Yeah. I mean, my, my, my most sincere wish is that they all do as much as possible to this day.

Yeah. You know, because that's probably a good way, but probably, I think, you know. Mickey still does. Yeah,

I think probably Billy probably still does too. Although, although, it might be wrong for me to speak on that specifically. Did you see people's demeanors start changing when you knew there was like heavily amounts of heroin going through the band? You know what, man? Geez, a wizard.

No, man. I think if people have money and they want to maintain an opiate thing, that almost works. You know? I mean, I think the problem

with the opiates, or the heroin specifically, as I've seen it happen, is when people just, they don't have enough money to do it, then they're in trouble. So it goes from opiates to heroin. But if you have, you know, or whatever those guys were doing, morphine sulfate or, youate or just something like that. Yeah.

You know, that class of stuff. The stuff that leaves your brain on but erases your body. Yeah. Yeah, that batch of stuff. What about the fans for that scene? Was it – because, you know, you talk – Oh, no. You know what man i always thought

the the the people generally that that were involved because they were excited about the music and loved the music and and like dug the music for the right reasons because it was some extraordinary stuff extraordinary playing extraordinary songwriting really really great stuff i thought they were I thought they were fine. There were... I still run into people, man, that are just like serious deadheads. They kind of don't listen to much else. Yeah.

So some of them aren't the most sophisticated listeners, most well-rounded in terms of the rest of their influences but uh you know but a lot of them really were they're a great band yeah you know let's let's let's not uh let's not let's not get that confused and i i don't i don't think um i don't think that the the the heroin part of it, you know, is like, ooh, scary fucking heroin. It was anywhere near as destructive as the cocaine and alcohol over the years, man. That erased, that really erased people, you know.

It don't matter how much money you have, you know. Is that it? The cocaine and alcohol is what really fucks people up.'t matter how much money you have. Is that it? The cocaine and alcohol is what really fucks people up. That's what I saw. That's when the demeanor starts changing. That's when they start becoming assholes. That's when... Yeah, but also to be perfectly clear, man,

But also, to be perfectly clear, man, at that level of – just some kind of like rock royalty thing at that level of work that those guys had, that this is, this is maybe, this is the weird, the weird part I think is that there's like a band, right? And there's the grateful dead. They've got the band and there's that inner circle.

And then right around that just inner circle, the creative force of the thing, the actual energy of musical energy of it. There are all these people, man, that just sort of glommed onto it of musical energy of it there are all these people man that just sort of glommed on to it who like made it their job to like not let people with merit get close enough that they might be discovered that they had no merit and would be like ejected from the thing yeah man so there's this you know it was, it's just a weird scene. And like the horrific part would be just sort of being at the periphery of that and seeing the extent to which the people that were near the thing for their own selfish reasons, man, was participating in a way they were adding nothing to it.

Just prevented it from moving or going anywhere else or doing anything. Was the band oblivious? Were you guys oblivious? Or just like you just kept them around because it was kind of like a safety blanket? Like what was, why are they around? Can't you just shoo them away? Or are they just sucked in? No, it's just, you know,

it's fucking leeches. Yeah. It's true, though. It's true. No, man, you know. You know what I'm talking about. I get it, man. But it doesn't happen.

But the level that I work and that I like – at the level that I like to work at this, which is pretty – High. No, it's pretty simple. It's like, hey, kids, let's put on a show kind of thing. I think everybody should help. Do their part. Make the show the best they can. You bring everything you can for yourself. Make sure you're prepared.

Bring something for everybody else and everybody pitch in. That was the only way that that stuff worked. Yeah. You know, when I was a kid, I mean, literally, you know, we're like living fucking cracked windshield and do the gig and set everything up and pack everything back in the van and drive it back to the dude's house and then unload it, unload the van and walk home, you know, like that kind of thing. You know, like that was like, that you know that was i still do that we just did the thing me and and we're and kreutzman don was um we had a uh the new year's bash in in uh kawaii it was kind of a benefit for the uh people who got washed out on the on the north coast there um well how you know but it's you know it's it's kawaii

and there's people bringing stuff in bringing in water and stuff like that so I was like oh and I grabbed a case of water and I walk in and I'm walking in with a case of water and the gals go oh my god what are you doing carrying water I'm like what am I doing carrying water we're carrying water in

they looked at me like I was fucked up for helping. What, they don't want you to touch it? They thought it was an artist or something, you know? Yeah. And I'm like. You are an artist, dude. No, but it's fucking. It's just water.

It's Hawaii and it's water. Everybody's thirsty. Here's your fucking water, you know? Nobody's exempt from that. Why do you think people put musicians on such a high pedestal? Oh. Oh, well, man, that's a deep question. And it's a good question.

And I don't know the answer for it. I can make an observation about it. It's just part of this performer thing in our culture that makes music a specialty. culture that makes music, you know, like a specialty, you know, like, you know, like if you were a surgeon or something like that, you know, or a fucking physicist. And it's not. It's not like that. You know, it's like there's plenty of cultures where music is just a birthright. Everybody, nobody doesn't sing.

Of course, everybody sings. Everybody sings. Everybody plays, you know. And, you know, along the way, because we do have this idea that, you know, we're going to specialize and then, you know, reward these specialties, you know, we've lost some of that birthright and people will see a performer.

People do it to me, you know. lost some of that birthright and people will see a performer. I'm seeing people do it to me, you know. They'll go to a show or whatever, they'll hear music and they'll be with their friends and they'll feel that fellowship and they'll hear the music and they'll be moved, you know, and then they have to fucking personify it. They come to me and they go, oh man, that was great. I'm like, no, that wasn't me. Look around you, man. That's you.

You know, pat yourself on the back. You felt that. You got, you connected. That's it. That's all you're supposed to do, you know. It's like drop the fucking cares of the world for a minute and, you know, be in the moment and feel connected. Feel connected to these people. They're all here together. It's not like you said, it's all part of feel connected. Feel connected to these people. They're all here together.

It's not like you said, it's all part of it. To celebrate and to be part of it. We're all part of it. Yeah. Yeah. So we're all going to carry that water and we're all going to sing the songs and we're all going to bloody blood. But we don't do that, you know, on the, you know, like on that specialty level where we're expected to like make money. Yeah.

And so people get weird around money, you know. Yeah, man. They really so it's good people get weird around money you know they really do people get really fucking weird around money so uh do you have the best uh do you still remember any moments where you felt like the band the audience everything was fully connected any show that's like man that was one of my greatest moments you know as a musician oh who are you playing with where was the city what was it man well i mean this there's there's i mean for me there's actually you know um there's quite a few of them. It's kind of like that's still the whole point is to, you know, get up there and get out of the way enough that you, you know,

are in it for real, you know. No, I don't think it'd be fair to single any out. Although there's always some show where, yeah, you're playing outside, and the weather sucks, and then all of a sudden the fucking rainbow comes out, and everybody goes, whoo! So there's plenty of those where there's great natural beauty. And then there's all kinds of stuff for me where just maybe something specific, um, happens to,

that just freaks me out. Cause it's cool. You know, maybe a big bug crawls up my leg or Patti Smith is in the dressing room. It could be anything, you know? Um, uh,

but no, as, as, as you're suggesting that, you know, like that there's, that there's one of those any band that you really felt like you connected with the most

of all these bands you played with? like group of musicians, like maybe it's your son maybe it's oh well, the thing with Johnny is that's super rewarding and super scary you know because he's my rewarding and super scary. Why is it scary?

Because he's your boy? Oh, because he's my son and he just like, he kicks my ass so hard 90% of the time. It's just like, I'm glad I get to play with this dude, you know? He's so good. Yeah? Just a fantastic musician. He's a good guy too great guy great listener great composer um yeah yeah i'm real real proud to be able to to work with him yeah he's he's he's fantastic no no man it's um yeah it's kind of it's kind of not like that it's not like I'm a fan of my own scene

you know um I'm just you know I'm just in it and I have my own very personal reasons for pursuing it the way that I do and I feel very fortunate

that I'm allowed to like even do stuff like this. It's like, hey, get on a boat and go play and hang out. And I think that's cool. I'm glad to play. And it's great to see all the musicians in one place. Because there's people that, man, I almost never get to check in with them except for jam crews, which I've done about 12 of these things at this point.

What do you think of the future of all these musicians, these young musicians coming up? What do you feel about them? Do you think we are on the right path or are we just in it to fucking party? Oh. Oh. I hope you're in it to party. I hope you're ready to party.

It is halftime at the Andy Fresco interview hour. Welcome to another episode of Review. I'm your host, Ari Finling. Today, I am reviewing the Greyhound bus I took from New York City to Atlantic City to do a show with Andy Fresco this week. First, let me just say, if anyone who works for Greyhound is listening to this, fuck you. Your buses suck, your company sucks, and you should be put in jail. Greyhound buses are like a burning trash can rolling down the fucking highway. If you have never been on a Greyhound, let me paint the picture. There's about 55 seats for 175 people. There are no rules on the bus.

Drugs, murder, theft, they're all legal. It's like you're in fucking international waters. It's a rolling methadone clinic. Not a single person and their fucking phone on vibrate. 18 seconds someone's dumb shakira ringtone would go off and six people would check their phones i know what you're saying oh they have outlets and wi-fi it's 2019 every fucking place has wi-fi it's not 1998 prisons have wi-fi you don't see me hanging out there a woman sat in the bathroom for the entire trip doing God knows what. To be honest, I never saw her come back out. She may have died in there. The trip from New York to Atlantic City was

supposed to take two and a half hours. It took five. Five fucking, I could have flown to Arizona in that time. I could have built a goddamn shed in five hours. Instead, I got hepatitis C from a nice lady who coughed in my mouth. Fuck you, Greyhound. My name is Ari Finling, and this is another episode of Review. What's your balance? What's a perfect balance for Steve Kimmel? for steve kim on wow you know i i've i'm i'm afraid i've i've i've done my best when i've been as far from um having to parade it around yeah you know um as possible i've been fine like out in the woods you know yeah you guys live out doing well no i mean we're not not now but I used to I used to be like very off the grid

like where you know up in west Sonoma County you know sheep ranches cattle ranches growing pot

just you know just like not around and I'm not like not like the city person kind of thing so

you know just getting out in nature, you know, and having that to interpret and bounce off musically and not feeling like I'm getting pushed and pulled around, you know, by people and can just get up and do it. The less I participate in the less I participate in white man's world, the better

I feel. Where do you feel more comfortable? On stage or in a studio? On stage. On stage. Do you not like the studio process? I don't like the studio process or do you feel more? I don't like the studio process to the extent that I feel it inserts itself

between the performer and the music a lot of times. You know, maybe more these days than it used to, you know. I mean, there was a point where, you point where when you wanted to record a band, you just put the band in a room, and there was a mic about three feet from the kick drum, and there was an overhead somewhere. There's a couple of mics, there's a couple of channels, and the band played in the room, and that was it.

And the performance was over. And as the technology got more sophisticated with the multitrack and so forth, you know, and people weren't playing in real time and stuff, I thought that was a, I thought that was like sort of a big split between the commerce and the art of it. Like if I had to draw a line, you know, the art would be falling on the, you know, performed in real time. Yeah. You know, like with everything that was playing, listening, you know. And now there's whole giant, you know, vast, vast swaths of the industry where there's all this stuff recorded where not a single part's listening to any other single part, you know. And there's nothing wrong with that as a as audio product and some of it's beautiful and i love it uh but it's also it's a it's a different thing so when

you know with that being said when you're in the studio do you try to record live with the band are you doing it i really i just bang my head against the wall to try and keep the process away from the band as much as possible. Explain that. What do you mean? Oh, well, you know, like as soon as you go into the studio, the first thing they want to do. Well, it's like, I mean, even, you know, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, I had these tracks, live tracks from Japan. And I took them down to the place that I work in town, Prairie Sun there.

Prairie Sun? Yeah, yeah. Of course. That's your joint? I mean, I've lived in the area for those guys since the 70s. I'm old friends. Muka, he's my man. So, I mean, even like, you know, 15 years ago or something like that, just when they

started, you know, up on the top of the parking lot, the new control room up there, I go in there with these tapes from live tapes from Japan, and I put them on, and the engineer goes, oh, wow, live drums. Oh, really? They can hear it. We don't do live drums here much.

I'm like what you know wow right you know what I mean it's like there's more of it there's more of the

live drums thing these days even than there was then because the do it yourself yeah you know the home recording

technology's gotten that much better you know like this little thing you use in here to do the point I mean you can you know you can make a record with that fucking. I mean, you can, you know,

you can make a record with that fucking thing. I know, it's crazy. You know, yeah. And it looks like it's a little guy.

Yeah, it looks like a size of a little transistor radio if you remember transistor radio. So the technology is getting way better. so the technology

gets better, but then the layers of it insert themselves into the thing, you know. I was, we're doing a thing, oh,

who was it? Oh, again, this was years ago, but I was down at the record plant. I guess it was Mickey Hart, or one of those Grateful Dead guys, and I was working on something down there, and one of the entire studio, and then this big room that should have been,

you know, like a, you know, ISO or drum, there was just like rows and rows and rows of, of, you know, like a, you know, ISO or drum. Dude, it was just like rows and rows and rows of, you know, Pro Tools guys. Yeah. Sitting there, it's like every fucking track that got made, like went through all these guys. And it's just like, man, all you guys, like put yourself in between, like the guy just playing a thing, you know. It's like, what do you need?

You need a Sikiru in there to play the talking drum. Yeah. You don't need like 10 Pro Tools guys. Yeah, exactly. You just put it, you put that thing on it and you play it and then you listen to drum. Yeah. You don't need like 10 Pro Tools guys. Yeah, exactly. You just put it, you put that thing on it and you play it and then you listen to it. Yeah. You know, and if you're not, you know,

if you're not too distracted by, you know, by the rest of the world falling apart, you know, you understand that you hear the guys talking to his ancestors and you're talking to yours too and you feel good about it. You know, you don't need all the rest of that stuff but that's overthinking production uh no it's just i think it's i think it's i think it's just inevitable that uh you know people make great records with a hundred guys running pro tools and people make great records with a hundred guys running Pro Tools and people make great records

without one guy you know it's just yeah and people make shitty records without them and people make shitty records

it's like whatever you anytime you like just say okay look here's my discipline here's my grid you just realize

that just by just by defining it, that there's going to be good stuff on it and off it. Because there's no one, you know, what's the right word? You know, like formalism or something like that that contains everything. Just the idea that you're going to define the thing means you've kind of left

something out. Do you have any songs that you still play back in the day that you kind of like, you don't probably play, like, do you ever go and re-listen to records and just kind of cringe, like, oh, now I'm so much smarter with my instrument. You know, like, wow, what the fuck? No's it's so much worse than that what is it tell me give me

give me the neurotic because everything gets recorded right you know and there's no way around it what's the moment but but the like if i if i'm trying something like oh i'm gonna put this pickup on this guitar and play bottleneck in this tuning to deal with this kind of energy. Like there'll be some tune and I'll play it. I go, oh, this sucks. And I'll play it and I'll try something. This fucking sucks. And then I'll go, oh, I got it.

I'll do this. So I'll make some production move and then take that on stage, record it, and then listen to the recording like right away, you know, cause I want to know, did I, is this better?

Now listen to it back. It'd be like after the gig or something like that. And I listen and I'll go, Oh yeah, that's what I was. Yeah. That's what I was getting at. Okay.

Okay, cool. And then I move on or I go, Oh no, that blows. Forget it. You know, and then try something else.

But if I wait, you know... Like wait to record it? Well, no, if I wait a couple weeks to listen, like if I wasn't trying to do something special, if I wasn't trying to specifically address something objective in the production, then somebody will have the tape or whatever, or the band will be riding in the car and somebody will put a show on and put it on.

I listen and I go, oh Jesus, what is that shit? Oh, that's you, Steve. I'm like, oh my God, what happened to me? I used to be able to play. This is, you know, right. And I feel terrible. Like, why can't I play? You feel terrible? Does it get to your head? Oh, I hear it. I'm just squatting on the mirror so hard. I'm like, oh, no. And then at the same time, like a year will go by or two years will go by, and somebody will put the show on. And I'll go, holy shit, what's that? They'll go, oh, that's you, Steve.

And I'll go, why can't I play like that anymore? So you're always just fucking sorrow. And he's like no you know what I mean so it's like how do you get yourself out of that and move on well like I said I'm not a fan I'm not my

my own fan I just do what I do you know I don't consume my I don't consume my own. I don't consume my thing. It's like eating your own shit. Yeah. No, exactly. It's all squatting on a mirror thing.

Somebody else might think, oh, this is great. Somebody else might pay to see that. Not me. I'm not paying. Look at my own asshole. I'm not paid for it. I don't want to know. I don't care. That'm not paid for it. Oh, my God. I don't want to know. Right?

I don't care. I just, yeah, that's not where it's at. So I do what I do. And love my friends. And, you know, love the music and love the process. Do you know Jerry Joseph well? Oh, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What do you think of Jerry? Why hasn't he gotten the fame and popularity he deserves? He's too fucking deep. Yeah? Yeah, no, he is the most interesting man in the world. He is. There's no question about it. I had one conversation with him, and I was confused as fuck,

and I knew he was just going way over my head. We met, I don't even remember how long ago. Man, we were both fucking, we were both skinny guys with hair. Yeah. Barefoot. We were doing, what were we doing? It must have been like early 80s or something like that with Little Women. And so me and him were in little

women rock and reggae band great great band great tunes so much energy a miller genuine draft band basically got paid in beer really yeah we just like was it we didn't we got paid in beer we didn't even have a car i don't think i think i think somebody would drive us around until their car died and would leave it by the side road and find another one and there would be in some volkswagen van i remember like being in the rockies and some volkswagen van with the entire band and some girlfriends and dogs on top of all the gear you know and the the the van dying. And for the second time in my life, having to fix a vehicle on the road with a guitar string. Because luckily, the only thing that I could have fixed with a guitar string was the throttle cable broke.

And I fashioned a new throttle cable with my low E string. It was like that. And you'd get to the gig and we'd be barefoot. We toured barefoot for the longest time, man. Just like, just caught up and stinking and drunk and just glorious, man. It was so good. Yeah, we're going, we got a gig coming up

and I gotta fix this somebody's actually sending a plane to pick us up sending a jet to pick us up that's how yeah not even like

I don't have to fix I probably won't have to fix the jet with the guitar string like that so how many you know what I mean it's like like that part of it

got better the parties got better and my having to fix everything got better. I wanted to fix the jet. We've got some gig up in Alaska, me and Jerry and Dave Schools and my son John. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about that band you're in. It's like –

Oh, that's what – you might have been alluding to that. Yeah. But I want to talk about – first I want to talk about the brilliance of Jerry Joseph and like where he's at in his career now and how does he not just doesn't give a fuck. Is he like a complete true? Yeah. I think he's a little bit like me. He just,

he just wants to, I think it's important for him to have something to say. Yeah. And then Really just connect from the heart With that To make some heartfelt connection You know with that He reminds me of Todd Snyder a lot

Just how he Right His inner You know and like You really don't know what he's thinking You know he's gonna but he's so brilliant like oh no but but insane and and and and fearless i mean his idea of a good time this last couple years has been like you know um he he's taking guitars to these kids in these refugee camps.

Really? Where's he going? To the Kurds in Iraq and to Afghanistan and teaching girls in school, little girls in school to play rock and roll. I said, you're doing what? I'm going to Iraq, man. I'm going to teach the kids to play rock and roll. Are you sure?

Would you go with him? Has he ever asked you to go with him? No, he hasn't yet. And I don't think I'd go now. I mean, I might have gone a couple of years ago. I think it's kind of getting worse. But I might, you know, I might. But he does. That's different, you know, I might. But he does.

That's different, you know. Yeah, if he – no, I can't even begin to get into the stories about how deep that guy is, man. Tell me one. Give me one. Jerry had an affection for the heroin for a long time and so would travel to Asia for the holidays because, you know, you could receive and not worry about it. And somehow he wound up somewhere adjacent to, I'll make this very brief,

you know, he was on opposite China by the Yellow River and completely fucking so high, he decided that he should swim to China. So he took off all his clothes. Swim to China? Totally high, yeah. And swam to China, right? Naked? Naked. Naked?

Naked. Where getting out on the other side, man, he gashed his leg like wide open, like this terrible, just huge gash on some piece of metal. And he was greeted by soldiers with machine guns who escorted him, you know, into some kind of custody where they couldn't understand what he was saying other than he was like just totally stoned. Yeah. Like a little dude, a monkey man, you know, who was like bleeding profusely from all these wounds

from swimming through this polluted river. And eventually they just gave up on him and drove him back across some bridge and dumped him, you know, naked back into. Does he do that? Does he go by himself and just does these recon missions? Yeah. I mean, sometimes you'll... I think he's done a couple

with various celebrities. Which are even scarier. But you've got to talk to him about that. Yeah, you've got to talk to him about that personally. But Jerry, I love Jerry Joseph. Love his music. Love the person.

We play, we just played at the Sweetwater in California. What, the band? No, he and I and various folks. And we don't even, there's no set list. There's no fucking rehearsal. There's nothing. It's like, we just get up there and go, ah, you know, and just punk out, just thrash and bleed and cry and scream.

It's so primal and so beautiful. Really, really great, dude. Yeah. Great, great. So with that being said, you have Jerry, you have Dave, you have your son. So how is that like? What's your feeling about this band? Where are you taking this?

Do you want to just make songs? Do you want to go out and just play? You guys are like best boys, huh? It's just... Whose idea was it to all four of you guys join? We've been trying to do this for a while, actually.

Something's all... Everybody's always busy. Stuff's always in the way. Johnny's got a million things going on. Johnny's over here. School's got a million... I don't think he wants to play live. he's over here school's got a million you know school's done I don't think

he wants to play live he's like he's done he's like touring I like my house you know have you been to his house

man it's nice his house is amazing his house is so wonderful his house is wonderful his wife is wonderful his dogs are wonderful he's got his kitchen he loves to cook

we go over there and cook and he loves to produce he loves being over there and cook and he loves to produce. He loves being in the studio. And he's fantastic at it. But at the same time, because he's worked with me, I mean, you know how he is, man.

Like, you work with that cat and you realize, you know, that he can actually, like, draw some music out of a situation and you trust him, you know? And so we have this, you know so we have this musical rapport, this personal rapport this great trust between

everybody in the band great affection and great trust kind of like the chemistry of it was what we wanted to what was the first song where it felt like this is magic to leverage oh it's not even like that it's just like what we wanted to What was the first song where it felt like this is magic?

to leverage. Oh, it's not even like that. It's just like we should leverage this chemistry. That's fucking cool. Because then instead of like you know, being in a band I don't want to be in a band. I want to be in a gang. You know what I mean?

I'm like, I'm not that good in a band, honestly. You know, it's like, I just need to be able to do what I do. I'm much better with the gang kind of concept. Like Zero. Zero was a gang. You know, KVHW was kind of a gang of the bands that I've been in and then you get into the other stuff where it's more I forget who

had said this back in the day but there was at one point there was this idea about like the kind of band that you could have and some bands were like some bands were like a card game,

you know, where the guys just got together on the weekend, you know, and had a couple of beers and had fun, you know? And then some bands were like a business where everybody like, you know,

you showed up for work and you did the same thing. If you couldn't do the job, somebody else did the job. And then there was the other model where it was just a gang. Yeah. Where it was just you and a couple of guys with all your backs together.

And it was you against the world. And that was it, you know? Sick. And it was like, but that for me was like the most, you know, like creatively functional thing.

I mean, the card game is fun. Yeah. You know, was the dead again? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Was the Dead a gang? Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Back when it was the Grateful Dead, that was very much a gang. Yeah. Yeah. Because I feel like chemistry is what keeps these bands together. It's the gang. You know, when it's a business, those bands don't fucking last, dude. They come for a couple years and then it's like someone fucks the girlfriend.

Or if they do, if they are, because there probably are some very successful bands that are nothing but business, but it's just the creative output. It's not the same as it's not the fucking Rolling Stones

or the Grateful Dead or something like that, you know? But yeah, those guys were pretty much, you know, dead a little bit at us and them mentality. I don't know how that

reconciles with my whole idea of there being some harmony in the thing. But maybe that is the harmony in the thing. Maybe you do have to,

like, you know, keep some things close enough and get insulated enough that you have the collective strength and will to sort we got the politics going on and we got the phones and the fucking everything. It's not exactly stacked in our favor to be, you know. Truly authentic? yeah I mean just to like you know to be ourselves and you know just like do our best for each other

you know we're not doing our best for each other in America you fucking kidding me everybody's ready to fucking shoot their fucking neighbor it's true yeah no I'm not kidding it's bad it's kind of scary that no one has

each other's backs I mean that's when you start distrusting anything everything you know yeah you start doubting

yourself you know and people stop you know just people stop engaging in the in the good stuff you know

they just like they can't you know they can't go out there's a I think a lot of the I think a lot of the problem I think a lot of the problem, and they're not going to fix it for a long time

because it's going to be generations away until they figure it out, is with the social media stuff, the extent to which, you know, the phone, you know, the whole – I'm not getting conspiratorial, but the fact that it's like the government didn't have to like put a chip in our neck to keep track of us. Yeah, exactly. They handed us a fucking phone and we're telling them everything, you know. It's like – They're like these dumbasses. Oh, man, we're such dumbasses, you know.

asses oh man we're such dumb asses you know it's like it's at some point in the future i don't know how many generations it'll be but at some point in the future people are gonna look around and go you know what we'd probably be better off if like we didn't do this and we were we were a little better off i'm you know how old am i i'm like 62 or three years and i forget 1955 i was born and uh there was a a big part of – I guess to start in the 80s, man, we had this kill your television kind of movement going on. Yeah. Which we were really big at. kind of movement going on, which we were really big at.

We were like kill your television slash personal freedom kind of people. It was like, we're going to smoke our joint wherever we fucking want. We're going to grow some pot. We're going to smoke the joint whenever, wherever we want. Fuck you. And we're not going to watch your fucking commercials.

We got our own fucking life to live and we don't want you telling us what to buy or what to buy or what to eat or how to look or you know any of that kind of stuff it was like in the screen was like the enemy we literally had tvs at the ranch we saw a tv we'd fucking pick it up and take it out of the ranch and fucking shoot it yeah oh yeah no we shot tvs that was like yeah that made us feel good yeah so we were like blowing up cathode ray tubes for fun smoke to join shoot the tv do you think that's the revolution like it won't be pretty fucking weak revolution

but it was just like it's just an idea yeah you know that we had we just turned up that we didn't want our values imposed commercially. Yeah. We wanted to discover for ourselves what was important to us. Just leave us alone and we'll figure it out ourselves. You know? And boy, did that snap fucking back when the people got the little phone and the iPad. It was just like all of a sudden everybody's like, oh man, you got to have the screen. And the screen follows you around and tells you what to buy based on the sites you're visiting and stuff like that.

It's crazy. The data money. Like you said, we don't need chips. People are going to fucking – they're going to push back on that eventually, and there will be a little renaissance behind pushing back on that because, man, look at how that's been weaponized. It's not made a better world. No, it hasn't. No, that's screwed everything up.

Look what happened with the Trump thing with the whole Russian box. It got convinced that he was the right person. Yeah. And, and, and I've, yeah, just crazy.

Just the media. Yeah. And how it's, you know, you know, able to target people with certain views and how it fragments people. And I just like, you know,

it's, it's not, it's not helping. It's not helping. So anyway, that's what a horrible way to wrap this up. I know. I want one more question. Let's not go. Let's not go. Let's not go there. Let's look for a brighter future. No, exactly. Steve Kimmock for president 2020. Steve Kimmock for a brighter future.

Steve, I got one more question. You know, you've been doing this a long time now. Is there anything you would tell your younger self with all the knowledge you have now through the years? What would you tell yourself? Oh, wow. Wow. That's a good question.

This is kind of weird, man, but it's like, of course I have regrets. Of course I have regrets. You know, I don't go around celebrating everything that I do. I've done a lot of... I can tell by the fucking shitty solo you did one time. Well, I've done a lot of I can tell by the fucking the shitty solo you did one time you fucking think about it every day I've done a lot of neat stuff I've done a lot of fucking horrible stuff

man at every level man as a person as a musician you know I'm a human being so tell me man the thing that I regret almost the most

it's such an antisocial thing to regret in a way when I first came to California, the very first place I got to live was adjacent, this little apartment in San Rafael back in the middle 70s, man. It was adjacent to the parking lot

of the Ali Akbar College of Music. And my first morning I woke up there and I heard students just in the parking lot, there was a little wall, had about three feet of yard and a little wall went down about four or five feet and then a room for a couple of cars and then this little building where Ali Akbar Khan

and Allah Raqqa and his son Zakir would come and teach North Indian classical music and I heard that music, man, and I just fell in love with it so hard, man. I loved it so much. And I was already just so broke trying to play the electric guitar. I was like, the only way I could be more broke is if I was a Sarod player. And I really wanted to play the Sarod, and I didn't.

So I would go back and tell myself, you know, you can play the Sarod too. Honestly, if I could go back, because one of the guys I went to California with, I just saw him in Florida when we were getting on a boat, Frank Goodman. I came to California from Pennsylvania with the band Goodman Brothers. Frank and a buddy,

Ken Zuckerman, went to school together. And Ken came out and enrolled in the Ali Akbar College. Early on. in Ali Akbar College early on. And he would come to the house, come to the band house with the Sarod

and he'd play on the Sarod. Our friend Steve Hope came and he got the Sarod. He came from Pennsylvania. A bunch of us came to California. And then Steve died and my other friend

that played the Sarod died horrible fucking deaths. And Ken somehow went on. He other friend who played the Sarod died horrible fucking deaths. And Ken somehow went on. He just never stopped playing the Sarod. And now he is the director of the Ali Akbar College in Switzerland, in Basel. Oh, nice. Yeah, and it's fantastic. And he was over a couple of years to the States.

And we visited and played. And it was sweet because he thanked me because I'm a student of temperament tuning and intonation and just intonation and so forth. And it's part of my appreciation for the North Indian classical music. Indian classical music but um he thanked me for my my you know my devotion to the pure harmony because he understood that I got it yeah and I thought that was real sweet but he understood that I got that much of it you know he had to you know and he I mean I mean when you hear like cuz you can, it's like a language, a culture thing. You hear Americans playing North Indian classical music. If you're into the music at all, you know right away.

It's like, no, man. You know, some kid from fucking Los Angeles trying to play the sitar, you know, you hear it right away. You don't hear that in Ken's playing anymore. Man, he's one of the dudes. He is. He's one of the dudes. It is. He's one of the dudes. It's scary.

He's so good. So, yeah. So I would, if I could go back, I would have told myself that there's some deep and very long-standing traditions that I love and understand on a heart level that I should have pursued. Because I think it would have been good for me personally. And maybe something that was good for me personally also would have been good for the rest of my music and maybe better for the people around me too.

Because, I mean, a lot of people have worked with me and tried to help me and everything like that. Along the way, I try really hard. And I can only do so much. And I wish I could do better for all the people that have helped me. And maybe I could do better for all the people that have helped me and i would and maybe i could do better for all the people that would listen to you know if i had you know and had to had the courage to really embrace the poverty involved at the time but i was like jesus i just got a fucking apartment making 50 a month man you know when we go live

in the parking lot at least i'll have a fucking apartment. I'm making $50 a month, man. When we go live in the parking lot, at least I'll have a fucking house. Just a two-room apartment. Steve, this has been such an honor meeting you, man. Well, thanks. We have mutual friends. Now I get why these guys love you.

So thank you for being on the show, man. Anytime. I would love to meet and play with us anytime you want. Sure, come on. I don't know how long you're on the boat for. I'm on the boat until they let us off. No more hanging out then, man. Anytime. I would love to meet and play with us anytime you want. Come on. I don't know how long you're on the boat for. I'm on the boat until he let us off. We're hanging out then, buddy.

Thanks, Steve. Have a great day, buddy. You too. Now, a message from the UN. One, two, three, four. I've been working here One day it'll be a year And I can't recall the day When I didn't want to disappear

I keep showing up Helping on growing up If it takes a lifetime. I'm learning how to be alone, fall asleep with the TV on. And I fight the earth to live inside my telephone. Keep my spirits high, find happiness by and by, if it takes a lifetime. I'll see you next time. Between right and wrong is so fine Well, I thought the highway loved me But she beat me like a drum My day will come if it takes a lifetime

I don't keep no liquor here Never care for wine or beer Working for the county keeps me pissing clear The nights are dry as dust I'm letting my eyes adjust If it takes a lifetime. I got too far from my razor. I forgot where I come from. And the line between right and wrong is so fine.

Well, I thought the highway loved me, but she beat me like a drum. My day will come if it takes a lifetime. Yes, it does. All right. And there you have it. Another episode. Fucking Steve Kimmock, Dave Schools, all on the same episode.

Spilling their hearts out. Thanks, guys, for being on the show. I'll be honest with you. I have a day off, finally. I'm in Denver, Colorado. And we just played one of the craziest fuck... It was a punk rock show last night. We played 4'm in Denver, Colorado. And we just played one of the craziest fuck. It was a punk rock show last night. We played 420 in Denver.

We sold it out. It was fucking insane. Oh, man. You know, shows like that really give you energy. And even when you're fucking tired. Like, we had a crazy weekend. We played five nights in a row. Played Thursday in Fort Collins. Then had to catch a 5 a. weekend. We played five nights in a row. Played Thursday in Fort Collins.

Then had to catch a 5 a.m. flight to get to Bend, Oregon to play some outdoor event. And then we had another 5 a.m. flight to get to this Colorado show. And then just seeing all my friends and all my family just out there rocking out, playing a big theater. We had production and shit. We felt like a real fucking band You know You shouldn't say that you are a real band

But it felt like it last night So thank you for showing up This week we got a big week ahead of us Next week we got Lyle Davinsky from Motet My homie Lyle Special guest co-host I won't tell you who yet, but it's a good one.

But this week, we're playing in Atlanta. We're playing at the Earl on Saturday. You should come out. We're almost sold out. Grab your tickets. Atlanta, you guys are the best. Big Atlanta podcast fan base. So come out. Let's go

hang out. It's a big week, and then next out. Let's go hang out. It's a big week and then next week we're at Jazz Fest. We're opening for The Revivalist. We have our own show on May 5th at the Maison

on Frenchman Street. It's going to be dope. We're there for like four days. Got tons of sit-ins. Let's end this tour right. But yeah. Thanks guys for being on the show

or listening to the show. Subscribe to the podcast. Love your neighbor. Comment on the fucking whatever the podcast thing is. That's how we stay relevant in the top 100. But we are getting new fans and new fans every week. I just want to say thank you so much. Y'all are the fucking shit.

Couldn't do this without you. But that's it. I'll leave you with this. Expectations will kill a man. Or actually, let me rephrase that. Expectations will get you every time. Don't expect anything. Let's stay present. Let's try to be the best people we can be. And don't expect anything from anyone. Just do it. Live life. Have fun. And let's just work together to be a cohesive group of people trying to be better and trying to take care of this world. People trying to be better and trying to take care of this world. Happy Earth Day. Take care of your bodies. I slept.

I finally slept in for like 11 fucking hours last night. It was so good. Oh, man. It felt so good. I got this fucking flu thing I've had for like a month. I don't know if it's flu or allergies, but take care of your bodies. It's the only one we got. and i love you be safe don't take shit from nobody be the person you want to fucking be today all right love you bye well thank you for listening to episode 43 of andy fresco's

world-saving podcast produced by andy fresco joe angel how and chris lawrence please subscribe and rate the show on itunes and spotify so we can make this a worldwide phenomenon for info on the show please head to our instagram world saving podcast for more info on the blog and tour dates head to andy fresco.com new now, but do listen to our latest album, Change of Pace. Please do. This week's special guest is virtuoso guitar player Sten Kimmock. Special co-host for this week is Dave Schools from Widespread Panic. This week's special guests are Ari Feindlings.

Make sure you find them on Twitter at TheyCallMeAri, Todd Glass and Sean Eccles singing a Jason Isabel song called If It Takes A Lifetime. It does take a lifetime, I can tell you. This whole thing takes a lifetime. I am telling you and the good thing is, it fits just fine. My whole life is an exact fit to my lifetime. Even if some nights seem to be endless, if some mornings seem to be too short,

the overall total fit will be just fine. So don't you worry, it will all come together in the end. In the meantime, we're not done yet, so see you next week for a new episode. Be safe.