Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 76: Jerry Joseph

Episode Date: March 10, 2020

Andy speaks his mind on the looming, anxiety-ridden panic of our time and invites our good buddy, Dave Schools to introduce the legendary, Jerry Joseph to the Interview Hour! Jerry and Andy talk about addiction and what it takes to overcome negative thoughts and emotions. Andy premieres the band's new single, Garrett hijacks Dolav's Sports minute, and we close out with co-host and deep bro, Taylor from Vintage Pistol. This is EP76. Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, tour dates, the band and the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com The views discussed on this podcast do not necessarily reflect those of the guests. Follow the inimitable, Jerry Joseph at www.jerryjoseph.com Check out Andy's new album, "Change Of Pace" on iTunes and Spotify Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Shawn Eckels Ahri Findling Garrett August Taylor Smith Arno Bakker 

Hey Andy, it's. I know this is weird that I'm calling you. I know we've never really spoken on the phone. I'm just lucky to have you in my life and I wanted to say thank you. Your replies to all my emails and DMs in the last couple weeks, it's been really emotional since I had to put my cap down. And I don't know if I could have got through this without you responding to me so quickly and being so honest. And I'm sorry if I send too many messages, but you always respond

so quickly and it just brings me so much joy and a sense of calm comes over me when I get a message back from you. Thanks, man. Hope you're doing well on the road. Hey, Andy, thanks again for recommending that cream for my rash. It's, like, almost completely gone. Like, all the bumps are gone. The pus is gone. You can barely even see it if it gets close. Like, this thing worked.

Thank you so much. All right, boys, what do you got for me? Here he goes again on his own. Driving down the fucking highway on his phone. Been drifting into lanes and parking zones. Frasco's made up his mind He's gambling with our lives Here he goes again

on his own Driving down the fucking highway on his phone It's the longest tour I've ever Fucking known Frasco's made up his mind Gonna answer every email while he drives So here he goes again

Here he goes again. Here it goes again. Here it goes. Get off your fucking phone. Noted. Let's start the show. All right. And we're here. Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasco.

How's everyone doing? Y'all scared? This corona fucking virus or whatever? You know, I've been thinking about this. I read this, this like statistic out there I know it's like, it's scary It's the fucking bad flu and shit People are dying

But check this out One of the worst days that this virus has ever seen The coronavirus Was on the 10th of February The day before my birthday actually And on that day, 108 people died in China But on the same day 26,000 people died of cancer

24,000 people died of heart disease 4,300 people died of diabetes Suicide took more lives than the virus did By 28 times Also mosquitoes killed some motherfuckers 2,700 people died from mosquitoes. Human to human ratio, killing to killing. Human to human, 1,300 people. Snakes. I fucking hate snakes. 137 motherfuckers died from snakes all in the same day. So take a breath. Don't forget that media

is here to scare you because they have nothing else to fucking talk about. That's why I don't think we should have 24-hour news because it just frightens people. Why do we need to have to know the news for 24 hours? Let's get the topics and let's move on with our lives. If we're going to live in fear of dying, if we're always thinking we're going to die, then we're not really living. And why are we doing this if

we're not living? We have to stay present. You know, we could worry about all this shit. I've been worried about getting someone pregnant so much that I can't find intimacy because I'm more worried about the outcome of a baby than intimacy. And that's not living presently. And this is why I think why I have never had a relationship. Because I'm so worried about having an accidental baby that I can't fall in love. And I'm working on that. I've been talking to my therapist about that.

And I've got to re-understand intimacy. But enough about my problems. How's everyone else doing? Everyone doing good?. I got to re-understand intimacy. But enough about my problems. How's everyone else doing? Everyone doing good? We got to stop worrying. We got to turn off our fucking TVs. This shit's just, it's crazy. I don't even want to look at social media sometimes. Everyone's freaking me the fuck out. We can't live in fear. can't why what's the point if we're always going to be scared of something why why are we doing that to ourselves

it just makes us more sick you know I guarantee you half the people who have colds right now think they have the coronavirus because it's a placebo and you know I don't want to get into this some conspiracy theories and shit but like your brain can convince you that you're sick like your

brain can convince you that you're depressed or your brain can convince you that no one loves you and we get stuck in these fucking things with our brain and we overthink and we overthink. And I think this is a lot of the things that have to do with this mental health movement. We need to get out of our heads, be present, look outside. I'm sitting out here in Reno, Nevada, land of titty bars and fucking gambling gambling and just thinking about, you know, why, why am I over here sitting in a hotel room? I was pissed off yesterday. I was just like fucking shit. I was worried about getting the fucking Corona. I was, I've been overworked i'm just fucking tired and um it my brain got to me that i was useless and i know i'm not we have to when we're feeling this vulnerable when we're

feeling this fucking low we need to take a step back and say why are we feeling this low? Oh, I'm sleep deprived. Oh, the news is fucking freaking me out. 24 hours a day. Oh, you know, I'm stressed about this new single that's coming out. You know, I'm putting out a new single. You'll hear it today, actually, sometime during the show. But, you know, don't let your mind take over what you have already planned in your heart. You know, I can't emphasize that enough. Don't let anyone stop you from being the fucking person you want to be.

No fucking coronavirus. No anthrax. Remember when anthrax was a thing? When people didn't want to grab their mail? It's just crazy, dude. Like Unabomber? Like, fuck, dude. We're living in fear.

Let's stop living in fear. Let's fucking live our life. If it's our time to go, it's our fucking time to go. But we fucking lived. We fucking fought. And we gave it our all. So don't stop giving it your all. It's scary out there.

I get it. But life is scary. Fucking following your dreams are scary. Let's have that fear into trying to find who we are instead of worrying about what fucking politics have to say or fucking, you know, the news

because they don't have anything else to fucking say so they just fucking scare us. All right. I'm done ranting. I'm sorry. say or fucking, you know, the news. Cause they don't have anything else to fucking say. So they just fucking scare us. All right. I'm done ranting. I'm sorry. I had to get that out. Um, but we got Jerry Joseph on this show. Uh, Jerry's great. He's, you know, I think he's another one of those guys who's misunderstood. One of the best lyricists of our time. Works with Dave's schools. Works with that whole crew. Dead. Widespread.

Just a great lyricist. And, you know, he got smack out the best of him. And, you know, heroin's a crazy drug, man. You could start becoming angry and start ruining relationships over being misunderstood. So I hope this interview makes them feel a little more understood. But I'm not going to introduce him, actually. I'm going to have our boy Dave Schools introduce him. So, ladies and gentlemen,

I will give it up to Dave Schools, and I'll catch you on the tail end. And don't stress, guys. We got this. Let's just fucking take care of each other. All right, talk to you soon. Take care of each other. All right.

Talk to you soon. Hey, Chris, why don't you play some Jerry Joseph music while I do this intro for the podcast? Hey, everybody. It's Dave Schools. You are about to listen in to a conversation with Andy Frasco and Jerry Joseph on the World Saving Podcast. Now, I've known Jerry for a really long time. His band Little Women took widespread panic west of the Mississippi for the first time. Wrote songs, climbed to safety, one of our most popular.

I inducted Jerry Joseph into the Oregon Music Hall of Fame a few years ago. And he's got a new record coming out produced by Patterson Hood. I've worked with him for a long time. I think he's one of the greatest songwriters of our generation. And we're not getting any younger, so maybe more than one generation. Anyway, here's Jerry Joseph. I advise you to listen up. You might just learn something right here on the World Saving Podcast. You find that it's been missing Seems you lost your faith in everyone you know Well, I surely hope that you don't plan on winning

They'll start paying more attention To the ones that throw you clear You are seconds from the impact And you're moving way too slow jerry fucking joseph andy motherfucking fransco what's going on buddy um day four i have i haven't gotten the water oh you dehydrate i've been in a fucking I haven't gotten the water. Oh, you dehydrate? I've been in a fucking resort on the beach for four days.

I haven't gone swimming. Why? I think like we were talking, the idea of going down to the water, where Andy and I are in Mexico at All Inclusive, which is already a weird thing, and they have effectively locked us out of the ocean. So you can go into these little lagoons, but you can't actually get in the ocean.

I remember this from last time. I think if you go to the far north end, you can kind of get into this thing that you could sort of get out into the water. But for four days now, I haven't been in the water. Okay, what does the water mean to you? Because I know you used to, like, when you were a kid, your dad used to fish tuna? Long story, I grew up in La Jolla, California. So I'm, which is the quintessential surf town of california best break in the you surfed i'm a shitty surfer um my brother is a

captain of the winning sea longboard association and like he's all about style his wife is um miranda my i think she's in the 50 to 60 age group. She might be the top women surfer in her age group. There's three things that I would like to be good at that I fake and could maybe convince you I'm good at. Name them. That I always thought that in my 50s that I was going to spend a bunch of time

and be good at these things. My Spanish, the piano, and surfing. We could talk about it. I could paddle out. I could get up. What's making you be fake about it? Because I suck at all those things. Do you want to be good at it? Yeah, of course. I would have loved to have been good at all those things i have no idea be good at it

yeah of course i would have loved to have been good at all three of those um what stopped you i think that discipline has always been a problem for me and i all three of those things you know take a certain amount of discipline and some of them just being lazy i mean i don't i don't speak spanish but i you know spent a month in a Mexican jail. Or I'm not a good surfer, and I grew up in La Jolla. Or I'm not a good piano player, and I've been playing music in bands and stuff since I was 11. Do you have patience?

Are you good with patience? My patient? Yeah. No. you good with patience my patient yeah no i'm uh i'm uh we're talking about a lot yeah mom when i was a kid i was a genius you know i was what does that mean i don't know i was gifted i was you know i was like off the charts genius kid now i would be a very long acronym you know addh two three five six you know or whatever i think that uh you know we used to think that that that my scatteredness meant smart and i and now we've learned that but do you think that's bullshit because you're pretty smart man um i i i worry i as a father of young children

i have a 33 year old a 30 year old a 10 year old and a six year old damn you've been fucking jerry i've been doing some fucking yeah it's the only thing I'm good at. Yeah? But I, uh... Yeah, I don't know. Who knew? Who knew that my skill set was like my dick and the guitar? But it's true, though. And four grandchildren. You have four grandchildren. So how old are you, Jerry?

I'm 58. You're 58. So when did you start doing songs? When did you start feeling like this is what I wanted to be? When I was very little, I grew up in San Diego, and we would watch Ozzie and Harriet, which was, what are you, like 18 or something? Ozzie and Harriet was this big show, and Ricky Nelson was the kid.

And in the show, there was a Ricky Nelson song. So we would watch it, and then I had a toy guitar, and my parents would go, ladies and gentlemen, Jerry Nelson or Ricky Joseph. And I would come out and pretend to be Ricky Nelson when I was five. Were you making money? I got charged and fucking up the ass, yeah.

And when I was five or six, I got a guitar, and I started taking guitar lessons. Funny, the other night I was in Tulum, and I was hanging out with this guy that wrote Hair. Wow. Right? And The Age of aquarius and all and and um somehow we're talking about songwriting so when i was six i wrote this what do you say what do you say about it well he was a pretty deep motherfucker he was 88 years old i would love

to show you this photo and you would not think that the guy was over 60. Talking kind of pre-early 60s, he wasn't a brill-building guy. He was like an actor off-Broadway. But he was a musician before he was an actor? He was a musician, and he wrote these songs, and he had a partner. And then the 60s exploded, and he had this idea and and it was hair and think about that for a second think about it's a massive fucking hit massive that play but he what was the other one he did too well he wrote the song age of aquarius which is not in here this is the dawning of the age anyway so we were talking about this stuff. And I was saying, when I was six, I wrote this song that to this day,

should I sing it for you? Yeah, sure. I know a game you can never win. And I know a game you can never lose. The game is love. The game is love. You can only play it in a special land. The land is love. The game is love. You can only play it in a special land. The land is love land.

And all of the sand is love sand. I told the guy, the greatest line I have ever fucking written was all of the sand is love sand. And I will never be able to write a line that great. Why not? Because only a six-year-old would say all the sand is love sand. So are you overthinking it? No, I'm just, I'm serious.

I was looking at the guy, I'm like, I still think about that little six-year-old Jerry watching the Beatles. The Beatles used to have a cartoon. And then I would go in my room and I would try to write these songs. And my mom put them together, and it's really sad. What were the songs? What were the lyrics when you were young? Well, the one I just sang you.

That was it? That was the song. You wrote that? The first song I ever wrote. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Were you always sad? Well, you would think, because

if you look at these songs, and my mom had these lyrics, they were like, you know, Bangladesh, and we will never understand. You know, it was like Vietnam War was on TV. I was a little fucking boy. And I... It's funny, because it's what I...

I always wanted to do this yeah you knew that right away I think so what do you mean think what do you mean think so well are you just overthinking it at some point I probably wanted to be a superhero

or you know a war hero or something but I'd always played in bands I started playing in bands when I was 11. Hold on, backtrack, backtrack. You always wanted to be a superhero or a war hero? I think. What superhero did you want to be?

I just wanted to be the guy that saved the day. What I really wanted was people to love me and to like me. And so my whole life has been about that. Were you not getting love when you were a kid? I think I actually had the most amazing parents. I don't think it was a lack of love. People love to try to pull apart my issues. You know, like, Why are you so angry?

I don't even know you have issues What issues do you have? Which is great This is a clean slate for me That's why I saw some of this video Yeah No I mean Come on

At some point I was more famous For being a heroin addict Than I was You know For my music Or my violin thing You know I've always been like

I'm a little- You're violent? Hyper-violent. Like, what'd you do? I tried to beat up the big guy. What, like mentally or physically? No, physically. Okay.

I remember people ask you why you got into music or what you wanted. I remember when I was 12 and I looked around, I went, ask you why you got into music or what you wanted. I remember when I was 12 and I looked around and I went, I am never going to be as beautiful as my surfer friends. And I want to know how to do two things. I want to know

how to kick the fuck out of that jock and have as hot a girlfriend as he does. I remember clearly thinking that at 12. Really? Were you addicted to pussy at 12? Was I what? Were you addicted to pussy at 12? Was I what? Were you addicted to pussy young in your life?

Like you always wanted to fuck? No, I mean, people can't see me. I'm not an attractive guy, but I... It doesn't matter about physical. I mean, you write fucking spiritual stuff that people could be attracted to. Sure, maybe, but that comes... I don't think you sit down and know how to do that.

I think even the thing with, even sex for me, because I didn't finish ninth grade. My father is a multiple-time Nobel-nominated scientist. He was the world's authority on tuna. My grandparents were were his parents were from syria and lebanon my grandma came into america via veda cruz in 1900 she crossed the border as an illegal mexican and an arab so when fucking trump comes out and goes the enemy are arabs and illegal mexicans i'm, that's my grandma, bitch. So then my dad was the youngest of 13, and they were East LA,

right off Whittier Boulevard, Sydney Street. Were people making fun of you when you were a kid? Why did you feel so insecure about your looks i don't remember that i i actually remember um we're doing this thing right now um i'm not a big therapy guy but i but i've been seeing this therapist recently i like smart fucking guy and i'm signing up to do this thing i think i think. I'm a little concerned to say that publicly. Why? Well, in case I chicken out.

Well, the thing that I'm most frightened of is psychedelics. When I, 12 years ago, the other thing I'm frightened of was heights. So I kicked heroin going to Mount Everest. How long were you on heroin for? Off and on. Who knows? I had a long off and on history with drugs.

When did you start? I don't know. I smoked my first joint when I was nine. You smoked your first joint at nine? Yeah, I smoked from nine years old to 30. You're going to get me on my point So, the thing that I

I'm scared of heights And so there was this idea with a friend of mine that had summited Mount Everest a couple times I'm taking you up to Everest and you're going to kick dope It means I walk to 19,000 feet How old were you here? Kicking dope, this was 12 years ago

And it didn't cure my fear of heights But it's crazy because you're walking on a trail and it drops 3,000 feet You can know this is 12 years ago. And it didn't cure my fear of heights. But it's crazy because you're walking on a trail and it drops 3,000 feet. And I'm crying. I'm like, I can't do this. Anyways, the other thing I'm scared about is psychedelics. And I'm going to do this thing, I think, if I get the balls. It's called the Heroic Dose. It's the Johns Hopkins protocol psilocybin thing.

What, six grams? I don't know. It's six grams. It just came into my world. And I'm trying to gear it up to the fact that- Have you ever done psilocybin? Sure. I mean, I did tons of hallucinogenics, but I-

Here's what I always say about them. I know Jerry Joseph. I know Jerry Joseph I know and the last motherfucker that I want to party with is Jerry Joseph why? I fucking hate that guy there's no fucking way I want to fucking spend I want to do the drug that makes

gives me beautiful flowing hair and a big dick and I'm fucking seven fucking feet and people adore me. Like, I don't want to do the drug that I have to hang out with me ever. Do you hate yourself? I don't think so. I don't know if I trust myself.

Why? But you know yourself. Yeah, I think I know myself pretty well. So why don't you trust what you know? Because, hence the heroic dose, I realized when I was 58, my last birthday, that I'm scared of everything. All of it. My whole life has been based on fear.

Why? I don't know. But I have made a life based on trying to show I'm a fucking badass. I'm the guy that goes to war zones. I'm the guy that, I'm a fucking sociopathic. I will hit you with a fucking bat 10 more times. The whole thing, I will walk out with widespread panic and pretend that I know how to do that, but really it's all bullshit.

It's all fake. I just invented my own narrative. And in the narrative that I invented, I'm not scared of girls, and I'm not scared of crowds, and I'm not scared of heights. And it worked. People believe it until this fucking podcast. And the... If you're living this life that's completely fake sure

you know what is your that's not living so when you finally become someone and like understanding that you're fucking scared of shit because we all are fucking scared of shit do you feel like you're finally living? I don't know yet because this is new information for you? we'll find out yeah sure damn so you lived 58 years of just like faking it but why?

why Jerry? um I don't know what the alternatives were. I was talking to this guy earlier about when I was in a lot of trouble as a kid. What did you do? Everything. And I was kicked out of San Diego School District.

I still have a very hard time with someone telling me what to do. Really? So I was in all this trouble. My dad took a sabbatical. We went to New Zealand for a year. Yeah. The funniest side to this is that I ended up in prison and deported and all this fucking shit.

But at my dad's eulogy, my father was the world's authority in tuna. He set the global catch quotas for tuna. And then at this eulogy, the guy starts the eulogy, and he goes, you like dolphin? And he goes, because if it wasn't for Dr. Joseph, there wouldn't be a Pacific dolphin as an animal. Like, he saved the fucking dolphin because of a paper that he wrote in New Zealand. And so I'm thinking about that, and I'm like, Like, he saved the fucking dolphin. Because of a paper that he wrote in New Zealand.

And so I'm thinking about that, and I'm like, does that mean I saved the dolphin, Andy? I think we should go with it, right? I think we should. Jerry Joseph saved the motherfucking dolphin. So how did you do when you saved the dolphin? You didn't tell me when you started heroin either. When did you start heroin?

I think it's kind of unclear. I think I had done maybe junior high, but then I moved to New Zealand, and all this stuff happened. We came back to the U.S., and then I really got in trouble, and I was incarcerated for the rest of my... For what? What? For... I don't know.

I think I became very violent. And I'm not sure why because I'm not from that. Were you violent younger in your life? A little bit, I think. But I moved to New Zealand, and we landed in New Zealand, and we landed in the middle of the weirdest kind of gang world. And I was so scared.

So I just made up that I could handle it. Which is funny, because years later, if you talk to people that don't like me, they'll talk about my temper or about how when I'm fucking raging, I'll fucking eviscerate you with white hot fucking rage. And that was me toning it down. In your head?

Yeah, I'm like, okay, I'm not going to fucking hit the guy with a fucking piece of rebar. I'm going to just yell at him. Where did it come from? Like, where is this anger? That's what I'm trying to figure out, because I have anger too. So if you're going to say, if you're trying to convince people that you're a tough guy, then you need to make up a narrative

that they actually believe it so that that involves i i i i would assume that that involves showing them that you're capable of whatever that violence is yeah i i oh i can't get what you're saying it's the same thing with music right like we walk on stage i i don't know about you but i i've got the runs i'm gonna throw up yeah i'm fucking shaking every night every day today every time 100 i have anxiety like it's fucking going nuts killing me you know and then you what dick cave puts it the best in his documentary 20,000 Days. But you're curled up in a fucking fetal position. You're like, I have no idea how I'm going to do this. I don't know.

I have nothing. You're that insecure about yourself? Yeah. And then you walk out and someone goes to Nick Cave's case, they go, ladies and gentlemen, from Melbourne, Australia, or for me, if there's somebody introducing it, and they'll go,

it's Jerry Joseph and the Jack Mormons, and boom, it all fucking flows in and I fucking hold my head up and I go, you know, I have no idea how that works. Does heroin make you more secure? What does it do to you? I've never done it.

I think it's like it gives you a confidence that there's reasons that John Coltrane and Miles Davis and John Lennon and just pick any motherfucker that made any goddamn art worth a shit in the past fucking 50 years, and 80% of them were heroin addicts. I think it's – one could argue that if you've ever heard the term that God loves a drunk, Irish people like to use that. It drops, this is me talking out of my house,

but it drops the barriers between you and God. Really? I think. And you can do that through prayer and God. Really? I think. And you can do that through prayer and meditation. There's a million ways to get to God. But I think that with artists, that heroin is the one thing that kind of goes, I'm open, you know?

You're an open vessel. Have you written your best songs on heroin, you think? Absolutely not. I write my best songs in three minutes. And those are the songs that I was talking about a couple hours ago that I can't even claim authorship. Why? Because you're an open vessel and someone else is talking?

Yeah. I'm the same way. It's always the first song I write. My writing process is I go somewhere. I've got little kids. I'm at home. I don't write at home. If I die tomorrow, there's not

sheafs of half finished songs and snippets of recordings. I start the song. I start the song. I finish the song. I mean, that's it. So I go places to do that. Where do you go?

Well, my new record is written in South Africa. Man, this is crazy to me that you're such a scared person, but you do fearless shit. Why? Are you proving to yourself that you're fearless? I want my wife to love me. All right. Now it is.

I wanted to think I'm a badass. No, I don't know. Yeah, I do that a lot. I mean, I don't even know if you know any of this. I don't know nothing about you, Jerry. I take guitars to war zones. I teach kids in refugee camps and active war zones how to play guitar. So it's been like Afghanistan, and now there's been a couple of times.

I'm on the Syrian-Iraq border. How long have you been doing that? I started it, it might be five years since Afghanistan, since Kabul. What made you want to do that? I was in, well, I had been in a lot of places like that with my dad. El Salvador, Nicaragua. that and with my dad and and and um you know el salvador and nicaragua and and i was in i was in those countries a lot but in the middle of their revolutions and so i was in tel aviv and uh the the missile sirens of the alarm sirens had gone off and i and i look at this guy, and I go, what are we going to do?

And the guy goes, in a million years, Hamas cannot get a rocket into Tel Aviv. Do not worry. Boom, the fucking first one hits. Holy shit. I'm like, looks like they figured it out now, motherfucker. You know? And we had a show and they were like,

we are at war. We understand if you want to cancel. And I'm like, I don't want to cancel. I want to play the fucking show, you know? And that's what, because I'd been in Lebanon doing shows and then... Bomb blows. You're like, what the fuck? I just didn't

cancel the show. Hold on. Were you making money doing these shows? In Israel, I was... Yeah, I think we made a little bit of money. I think that the point was to be able to play Lebanon and Israel.

And I have a kind of a... Israel is a funny place for me because I'm... I really love Israel. Are you Jewish? No, I'm Lebanese, man. Lebanese. It is halftime

at the Andy Fresco interview hour. Hey guys, it's Andy. Hope you're enjoying the interviewer. Hey, guys. It's Andy. Hope you're enjoying the interview right now. I'm going to stop this for a special world premiere of another single off our new record, Keep On Keepin' On. Chris, play the fucking trumpets, baby. Hope you guys enjoy the new single,

Feel It In Our Bones. Enjoy. I spent so many days Taking you for granted Mad in so many ways Convinced I was damaged I've wasted so much time being angry Just wanna turn those days into stones We can shine it, yeah we can light it

Live it up, feel it in our bones We can ride this out together I'm better with you than I ever was alone I wish I knew you were sad You checked out too early I wish I picked up the phone You were never alone I still hear your songs and read it door

No one sings like you anymore We can shine it, yeah we can light it Live it up, feel it in our bones We can ride this out together I'm better with you than I ever was alone I love to grow so strong. I could get out of my own way. I hate to sing this song. If I can have you next to me, sing it along.

We can shine it. Yeah, we can light it Live it up Feel it in our bones We can ride this out together I'm better with you than I ever was alone

Yeah, yeah We can shine it Yeah, we can light it Live it up Feel it in our bones We can shine it, yeah, we can light it. We can light it, baby. Give it up, feel it in our bones. We can ride this out together. I'm better with you than I ever was alone. I'm better with you than I ever was alone. You ever see my show?

No, I have, but you talk about this anxiety of, is it that much perfect? Do you think about that so much every show? Oh, yeah. I think there's absolutely no reason for me to be on stage, ever, if I'm not giving it 100% of my everything, there's no reason to be there. I don't get paid enough fucking money to do something else.

I always feel, even my friends here, Watch for Panic, people will pay a lot of money and be stoked when they get one out of three. Yeah. One out of three what, good shows? Yeah. One of the Red Rocks, Friday was the show. You're like, really, man? I think every night has to be that heavy.

Every night, all the time. There is no room in my little life to dial it in. You know, there's I don't care. I don't care if there's six of you or fucking six

hundred of you. I think my job is to leave all of it on the fucking stage you know yeah all my shit and my blood and my fucking sweat and my that's that's the that's the job same here man this is why i can't fucking play two i hate playing two shows in a row you know i feel like because i'm thinking so much about that one moment for them, that it's very hard for me to, I get hard on myself if day two is fucking shitty. Is it hard for you to play multiple shows in one sitting in a row? Or what's your game plan in a set?

So I'm never sure. With my band we do three hours you know but like what's your what like where do you want to get to like what's your flow

like there's like you gotta have an idea of or like you know like you think about this so much you got there's gotta be a perfect perfect show for you

I don't know there's a perfect show I know that the other night we started with some song that usually is the end of the set and that's the one where i brought my eyes back and start speaking in tongues or whatever and i'm like how do you you know how do you do that the first song and um i i i think the idea is that every song, you're trying to get there, right? You're trying to get to this thing that's bigger than you, that's bigger than the band, that's bigger than the crowd.

Is that the most important thing to you? Absolutely. Will you be able to do that when you're performing on heroin? To bring fucking God into the room. Like, that's the task. I think you could do that on meth and schnapps. Who knows?

Or carrots and leeks. It doesn't make a difference. You're trying to fucking hit that thing that no one knows how to say what that is. But you got to do it every night. I believe that every night I have to deliver everything. Do you have any resentful about your career, how you approach your career? Absolutely.

Yeah, you can't. What'd you do? Did you do anything fucked up? Did you burn bridges? You can't not. The trick, I think, is to not be bitter. I think that you can be jealous, but you have to figure out how to not be bitter. And I think that's a trick.

That's a magic trick. Are you bitter? I try very hard to not be bitter. What makes you jealous? That I've given my whole life to wanting to be this thing, this rock star thing. The only time I get to do that is when White Sword Panic lets me do it, and I can walk out in front of 5,000 people and have that fucking moment.

But if you told me that if I cut my leg off right now on the Andy Frasco podcast, that I am guaranteed that crowd every night, no fucking problem, man. I will cut my leg off. now on the Andy Frasco podcast that I am guaranteed that crowd every night. No fucking problem, man. I will cut my leg off. You'll cut your leg off. No problem. Do you think you're misunderstood?

Maybe by the people that I love, but not by my fans. But did you ever fuck up in this? Do you ever have anything in your career that you regret doing? Yeah, thousands of things. What's the thing that you maybe not lose sleep about, but what's one thing that keeps coming back to you? That when I was 30

and I lost this big fucking record deal, I lost this big fucking record deal. I lost it. And I thought at 30 that like football players and supermodels that you could only go that far. So my biggest regret is not listening to the people that tried to tell me how young I was when I was 30. to the people that tried to tell me how young I was when I was 30. If I could take my thousands of regrets, that's the one that I would love to be able to go back and have just listened. Like, it's not over.

Because it took a long time for me to come out of that hole. How long? Five years. What happened in those five years? That's when I became really strung out and when I really kind of gave up. It's funny because that's also, I think, some of that was when I was selling the most tickets.

Well, explain that. Why do you think that? I don't know. I look back and I'll see pictures of shows and, and, you know, 1,000, 1,500 seats was easy for me to sell out, you know? And now I would be super excited to sell 100 tickets. Man, that's crazy to you because like, you're such a great songwriter do you feel like you ruined your time no um yes um

yeah i think there's a lot of ways i could have i could have i could have done things differently what i should have done and what i always tell young musicians when people go, what should we do? There's two things they say to young musicians. I'm like, tell the truth. And especially like bands. And move to fucking Europe. Yeah, dude, I play in Europe all the time. I get that.

Make a fucking different narrative. Rewrite the narrative. And get a story. Because nobody gives a fuck about how many times... Do you think traveling helped your songwriting? Absolutely, yeah. Where have you been? Where have I been? Yeah. I don't know.

I think most people would consider I'm pretty well-traveled. Still a lot of places I would like to go I haven't been. I've never been to Russia. What intrigues you about Russia? Because I haven't been there. So you've been to a lot of places. You're a traveler.

What have you learned from your travels not playing music that you could encompass into your songwriting? That every human, everyone who wake up in the morning and say a prayer or a moment of meditation or some kind of spiritual reflection and then make some tea or coffee and take a shit and then clean, you know, wash your hands

or take a shower and then kiss your family and walk out the door to do the best that you can. I have never been in any culture in anywhere in the world where that's not true. Now, what happens when you walk out the door? All bets are off. You could be a guard at fucking Auschwitz.

You could be, you know, Steve Bannon. Who knows what kind of horrible fucking person you could be? But I think that we all have that in common humanity we all have the same moment I love megalopolises I love the idea that if I'm in Tokyo or Sao Paulo or Istanbul or something that

there's another million people having a cup of coffee at the same moment or taking a shit or reading the paper I love that because I think that I think that's the beauty of our existence

and how we that we're the same people no matter where we live kind of and then how you how that breaks down like how you know you're a israeli or a palestinian or or a you know false church shank hill you know protestant catholic five county you know like how does it get into that kind of fucking hatred immediately?

You walk out the door and you're like, and today we killed that guy. It drives me fucking crazy. It's crazy, man. So it's all about knowing that family is the most important thing then? Yeah, sure. Family and... How many wives have you had, Jerry? One. I'm still married.

You're still married? Same chick? Well, I've been married for... I think we're coming out of our 12th anniversary. My older kids, I wasn't married to their mother. So what is love to you? What is love to me? Yeah. Not blinking to jump in front of the fucking train to save it.

No hesitation. That would be love. And I sound like a fucking hippie, but just to recognize that that's the gift. What is? To be loved. That's the thing we get. Do you feel like you're ever loved?

Oh, yeah, I know I'm loved. What about with the music scene? No. Yeah? Are you underappreciated? I don't think I would be allowed to say that. Why? Because you're supposed to be strong?

Because that's not really for me to, that's not a really for me to, that's not the call for me to make. I, you know, have this weird thing now where people that matter to me are like writing these things that I'm, you know, Jerry Justice is one of the top five songwriters in 50 years and these are like heavy people.

Does that make you feel good? yeah or it makes you feel like well then why the fuck has that never sold you know like what matters more Jerry what your peers think of you or what your fans think of you my peers

so why are you so worried if you got misunderstood by listeners? I don't know if I'm worried about that. I would like to be more successful. I would like to not worry about money. Yeah. You broke? Most of the time, sure.

Have you always been broke as a professional? Was there a time where you're making there was there was never a point where i where i like had a shit ton of money i never had a record deal most of the people that i know that that you know um they had like that chunk of cash but you know my publicist would tell publicist would tell you i've you know flown g Streams more than most anybody. So I'm always in this weird world. I'm around money, but I don't really have money. But I'm fortunate.

I own my house, and I have a car, and I have some records. What's your biggest fear then? My biggest fear? Yeah. Of everything? Yeah. Career-wise or? Dying alone.

Yeah. Loneliness. I don't want to die alone. Yeah. But don't we all die alone? We do at the moment that we're actually transitioning, but I think that I love... What is that movie?

Well, even The Godfather, where he's dying in the garden and his family's there. That would be my biggest fear, is to not have the people that love me close. To you. Yeah.

Do you think having this occupation makes you fearful that that might happen? Not any more than anybody else's occupation. Yeah. Then what's stopping you? You have a family. You have kids. So why do you still fear that? then what's stopping you?

You have a family, you have kids. So why do you still fear that? Well, I don't know if you ever get to just absolve yourself of fear. I mean, I don't know. There's all kinds of things that I think are scary. And I also know you know how fortunate I am and I also know that

that how privileged you know I'm in enough places and I I know what that looks like to not have food yeah

you know to not have freedom to not have any guarantee that tomorrow it's going to be okay. I've seen that enough times. So I'm hyper aware of how lucky I am. It's fucking a gift, man.

Is it hard for you to stay present? Yeah, absolutely. Why? I don't know. I've been trying to deal with this different kind of meditation thing lately and just to try to learn even what that is. I don't know. I've been trying to deal with this different kind of meditation thing lately, and I just try to learn even what that is. I don't know what being present is.

Really? I have no idea what that is. Are you present when you're songwriting? Or are you a vessel? You think someone else is writing these songs? I believe much more in the vessel concept. Yeah. On stage and writing songs. So when are you fully present you feel when i'm when i'm when i'm on the floor playing with my kids you know yeah sure you got kids

no i've never had a relationship before i'm too scared of that. Do you regret becoming a musician? Or do you... There are other occupations that I would have loved. I think I would have liked to have been a priest. I think that I would have been good in politics. But those all have the same kind of... Same thing.

Yeah. We're all saying the same shit of... Same thing. Yeah. We're all saying the same shit. We're just doing it in different themes. You got the gift of fucking words, man. You are fucking beautiful. Really. I'm not just sucking your dick right now. You have it, man.

And you always will. I feel bad that you feel pain because just from misunderstanding because you're a good guy and for people to misunderstand you just because you have

an anger problem people have pussy problems even my anger problem man that's been like 10 years you know since that's even... It was like a junkie problem or a sex problem. Those things just follow you around no matter what. And even my anger stuff, it's like I was always right. Do you still fight your heroin problem?

No. What was your downfall in heroin? Do you remember that time where you're like, I need to quit? Oh, I think the I need to quit time comes every time you're out of money. But I remember the, you know, I also remember when you just go, fuck it,

like losing that record deal. All right, we'll leave with this, buddy. Hey, this has been amazing. Thank you so much. I'm getting to know you. I know fuck it. You know, like losing that record deal. All right, we'll leave it with this, buddy. Hey, this has been amazing. Thank you so much. I'm getting to know you. I know we didn't talk music, but I don't really talk music. Fuck it. You know?

We talk about it all the time. But last thing, what do you want to be remembered by, Jerry? That I was a good dad. Yeah? Were you a good dad? Absolutely, 100%. I don't know about with my older kids, but that would be the thing.

That when Jerry Garcia died, and I forget which one of his kids said, brilliant guy, started a musical revolution, da-da-da-da, shitty dad. I want to not have that said. Well, I think you're a good guy. Thank you. Jerry, nice to meet you, man.

Thanks for having me. Thanks, Gary. Yeah, man. Hey, this is Garrett with Vintage Pistol. Fuck Frasco, fuck the Lakers, fuck Dolov, and fuck the Jazz. This is a segment all about the Nuggets. He's talking shit about the game. He's got a weird fucking name. It's Sports with Jarrett.

So Dolov is gone for the week, and the Jazz are trash. It's all about the Nuggets. What's up with Frasco moving to Denver only to talk about the Lakers? Take two mushrooms and call me in the morning because I ain't having it. It's all about the Nuggets. Uh, take two mushrooms and call me in the morning because I ain't having it. It's all about the Nuggets. He's all gassed up because the Lakers just landed somebody called Marquise Morris or something like that.

Big whoop. Just another spot at the Taco Tuesday for all I could care. It's all about the Nuggets. Caruso, though, yeah, probably a good guy. You know, he might be immune to the coronavirus because of all those Texas A&M parties. Go my ass. Ask the Pistons why they wouldn't even take her. It's all about the Nuggets.

Your fantasy basketball team might not make the playoffs, but Denver will. And Jokic is about to joke around and make you fools look like the fakers you are. It's all about the Nuggets. The Lakers are trash. The Jazz are trash. OKC, trash. You Posers got anything else you want to say, you meet me down at the YMCA on 16th and we'll talk. Nugs in seven, bitch. It's sports with Derek.

It's all about the Nuggets. Woo-hoo! All right. Thanks, Jerry, for being on the show. Wild conversation at Panic at the Playa. It was a weird interview because Kobe died that day and my mind was everywhere,

but I'm glad we got some info out of you. So Mahali couldn't do the podcast, but the best thing about, I just got to Denver, like literally at 2 a.m. on a Sunday night and today's Monday and the best thing about living in Denver,

there's always bands playing. What's up? What's up? Taylor from Vintage Pistol. How you doing, buddy? Hey, buddy. Thanks for staying over. Sorry I don't have anything in my house yet.

Thanks for having me, dude. Dude, I'm working. Couch is comfy. Dude, I appreciate it. Bro, we've been touring forever. We've been doing the damn thing. Let people know where you guys are from. Like a lot of people who aren't hip yet,

they will be but like you're from fayetteville right yeah fayetteville arkansas that's how we met yeah that's how we met how did we meet uh partying probably it's true man yeah that was a while ago man yeah the band's based out of fayetteville but we've been getting around for yeah you're doing the frasco thing you're doing like 200 plus shows a year road dogging it how's it going it's good it's good man you know how it is yeah you're tired yeah a little bit but how hard is it making 300 bucks a night oh that's a tough question it's it's really hard it's very it sucks sometimes man but what keeps you going i just wouldn't want to do anything else.

Yeah. You know? I mean, it's just what we do. What's the worst gig you've had on the tour? This tour? Or any tour? Any. Oh, man.

I've got a story for you. Tell me. All right. One time we're driving. We're going from Pensacola, Florida to Birmingham, Alabama. And about halfway in between, the back tire of our van completely falls off it's on fire shoots off into the woods what yeah dude i think i was here is this like during backwoods or what happened it was a fat were you were we like you're coming to us or

something i think so yeah okay so tell me this story yeah i know so the van totally messes up man the tire flies off the it's on fire when it hits the woods. And this is like the middle of summer. So the whole side of the road is just engulfed in flames immediately. You know what I'm saying? Like they have to shuffle in fire trucks because they're running out of water because they can't put this fire out, dude. Yeah, it was a...

Hold on. So you caused a forest fire forest fire yeah legit forest fire man what the fuck yeah but so what happened did the cops come oh the cops came and we slid so far past the fire that the cop didn't know that we were involved in any way he just asked if we had help coming because we just kept slow we were doing like 80 you know when the tire came up rubber fucking tire right i don't know if they ever found that, man. It shot way off in the woods. But yeah, we made the show that night.

Another band came and towed our trailer to the show. We get to the show, and the club had closed its doors without letting anybody know. That was a low point, for sure. You want to talk about- You're like, I got to make the gig. Yeah. We get there, and the club's closed, dude. So what do you go through when you're that low?

Like, fuck, this is going to cost me a lot of money. My spoke is off or whatever that is. And then you come to the gig and you have no money. You have no money. So how do you keep fighting? Man, you take what you have in your pocket and just try to make it work. We went and rented a Toyota Tundra and a local rental only and put 1,000 miles on it in a week.

Toured all the way to Michigan in a truck because it was the only thing that would pull our trailer. It was ridiculous. So this is the most important thing to you, man. Yeah, definitely. What do you like about this life? All of it. All of it.

Even the dirty parts. I'll sleep on anybody's floor as long as i'm playing music yeah i'll tell the boys all the time like i'll play for free man we get paid to travel yeah like we get paid to go through the bullshit to get to the show yeah that 90 minutes is that's that's where it's worth that's where it's worth it yeah man that's crazy because like i remember doing that fucking grind and i was doing it for 10 years and you guys are you know you guys were starting to do it and like to see where you guys are now and your guys are going out and doing your own shows and you're going out and building markets in towns like lexington kentucky and

like richmond it just makes me i feel like a proud dad thanks man thanks no you guys are killing it so what what's on the horizon were you guys uh putting out any you're putting out a new recordist yeah yeah we just got done tracking a record i'm not sure when the release date is yet hopefully this summer but got a lot of festivals coming up this summer we'll see y'all at a few of them yeah fuck yeah you will yeah man what's uh staying busy you have girlfriend yeah of course yeah so tell me about it. How hard is that? It's difficult. I mean, it's a challenge every now and then.

What's difficult? Just the separation, not hanging out all the time, you know. But I got lucky. You know what I'm saying? I got a girlfriend that's totally down. She supports the cause. So I'm chasing my dream, man. Yeah, so that's the thing. She's behind it understand who is

who you're going to be with and if they understand the dream or not right and don't settle what do you hate about the road what i hate about the road uh i don't trying to brush the curls out of my hair after sleeping in a van that's the worst that's the worst. Or like being wasted and then not having a blanket to sleep in. You're right. I hate that, dude. Or like being wasted and being in the van

and it's cold and like, you got to wake up early. That's why when I have 7 a.m. bus calls, I just sleep in the van. Yeah, so do I. Marty, it's 2 a.m. So do I. Fuck it.

I'm just going to sleep in the van. I'm that guy 2 a.m so fuck it i'm just gonna sleep in the van i'm that guy in our band too yeah i'll just go crash out that's your sanctuary i'm just ready to roll yeah it's quiet yeah you guys have comfortable seats i don't have to wake up early everybody just gets in and i'm the first one ready to go look at us traveling salesman yeah dude taylor i'm proud of you and your band thanks buddy go check out vintage pistol they're fucking awesome good guys good hearts um they're gonna be playing everywhere because that's what we do right that's what we call our musicians that's what we do i wouldn't want to do it any other way yeah me neither you know like i see people get hits before they tour and they're fucking burnt out and they're like fuck i'd rather like grind it out yeah figure out these are the years we're supposed to fight it out.

You know, that's what, same thing with coronavirus. Don't worry about this shit. Stock market's plummeting. Everyone's going fucking ape shit about this. I'm like,

what the fuck? Why am I not as scared? I'm normally neurotic as fuck, but yeah, I'm not scared. Yeah. I'm not worried about it. Every two years,

they just changed the name. I have to pay $27 for toilet paper now. What the fuck? Everyone is freaking out. There's no toilet paper. I fucked up. I just got back from tour.

I'm like, shit. I'm going to have to overspend on some TP, dog. Costco. Costco. Costco's gone too. Tay, good talking to you. I can't wait to watch your show tonight. Thanks for having me.

I wish. But where are you guys playing this week, just in case people are... Because this podcast comes out tomorrow. Tonight, Denver. Tomorrow night, St. Louis. Tuesday. Next night, Memphis.

Wednesday. Thursday is right outside of Atlanta. And then Saturday... Damn, you're going from... Richmond, Virginia. You're going... Yeah, these guys are crazy. They came out to...

They opened for us. We're like a... We're a baby band still, Virginia. You're going from? Yeah, these guys are crazy. They came out to, they opened for us. We're a baby band still, especially in the West Coast. And they come out, they drive like 20 hours for fucking 250 bucks just to fucking try to get to as many people as possible. That is the dedication. Whatever it takes. From St. Louis to Atlanta, too, is fucking insane, too. It's insane.

They make like 500 or 800 bucks, huh? Yeah, totally. That's the life, man. You fucking keep grinding. Yeah, Atlanta, too, is fucking insane, too. It's insane. It's probably making like $500 or $800, huh? Yeah, totally. That's the life, man. You fucking keep grinding. Yeah, man, go to it. Go support Vintage Pistol. They're the boys. They're the homies.

And they're fighting for it. And as all these bands that listen to it, keep fighting. Wear condoms, right? Totally. Wear condoms. Wash your hands. Wash your ass. Now I'm going to have to put all that stuff in it because people forget to wash their hands. Wash your ass now. We don't have to put all that stuff in it

because people forget to wash their hands. And don't stress. Life is short. And if we stress, we're just going to make life shorter. And why make life shorter than it already is, right? Right. So if you get the coronavirus, fuck it. You can fuck this shit up. You can fight this. You're not 80. You got this. Nobody's's gonna be in millageville georgia anyway that's what my sister's my sister is a doctor and like um cancer genetics and stem cell research and stuff and she got you scared no she got me not scared she's like listen you playing all these fucking hoedown towns yeah

they're not the virus ain't spreading there yet and uh and then she was like it's like, listen, you play in all these fucking hoedown towns. The virus ain't spreading there yet, dog. And then she was like, it's like the Spanish flu, which killed a lot of people. But that was also when technology wasn't that crazy. So I'm staying optimistic. Maybe it does kill all of us. If it was, I'm glad you listened to this podcast for the last couple months of your lives, guys.

But stay safe. Don't stress because stress makes you placebo that you're sick. And then when you placebo that you're sick, you just get sicker because you're worrying about sickness every day and your body can't heal. Truth. So take care of yourself and keep living your dream and keep fighting the good fight. Taylor, I love you, buddy. Love you too man I can't wait to watch

your band again let's do it later bud later you tune in to the third season of Iconic Conversations at Annie Fresco's

World Saving Podcast well thank you for listening to episode 76 produced by Annie Fresco Joe Ingelow and Chris Lawrence

please subscribe and rate the show on iTunes and Spotify so we can make this a worldwide phenomenon for info on the show please head to Instagram

at world's favorite podcast for more info on the blog and tour dates head to andyfresco.com this week's guest

is Jerry Joseph find him on jerryjoseph.com Joseph carries the PH Joseph and here ye here ye

and his new album Keep Keep On, Keep On. It will be out and available everywhere on April 24th. April 24th, everyone. And this week's special guests are Ari Findlings, Dave School, Sean Eccles, and Javila. And I'm a bugger. I write this eating my butt-fucked tongue. In the same mediocre Thai restaurant that I visited some years ago, across the road there is a church.

And as churches in Holland are on the way down, this church too had to find some extra cash. So they invited Andy Fresco for a show. And we couldn't resist. The band supported us elders, as witnesses, as choir and shout bands, as Pharisees, Zealots, Gomorrean and Sodomese. And we provided sunshine and locusts. And Andy, ah, Andy, he came in, the chosen one. Handing out blessings like fist bumps. Pontificating from the pulpit.

Crowdsurfing like a king straight from his cross. I eat my pat-fuck-tongue. The Thai are Buddhists. They couldn't care less. See you next week.