Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 78: Rev (The Lil Smokies)

Episode Date: March 24, 2020

Unhindered by the bonds of public decency (i.e. clothing), Andy stands defiant and ready for this brave new world we call "Quarantine." And he asks of us, "why not make the most of this forced downtime?" On the interview hour, we welcome the One & Only: Rev, from The Lil Smokies! Will we learn how he got that name? Listen in as Shawn sings the ballad of our age. Arno keeps it Relevant. STAY INSIDE. This is EP 78. Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, tour dates, the band and the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com The views discussed on this podcast do not necessarily reflect those of the guests. Extinguish those quarantine blues with The Lil Smokies Check out Andy's new album, "Change Of Pace" on iTunes and Spotify Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Ahri Findling Shawn Eckels Arno Bakker  Rowlf

Andy, it's your grandfather. I'm okay. Your grandmother is okay. We're in quarantine in our house and everything is fine. You don't have to worry about us. about us. Don't call every 30 minutes. We're okay. We're listening to the life that we see on the news and we're not going outside for our walks anymore and your grandmother's not playing Canasta until this is all done. So we're okay. Just be safe. Watch some movies. This is all done. So we're okay. Just be safe. Watch some movies.

This is going to be okay. When I was your age, I went to Korea and all my friends died. So you're going to be okay. I promise. Okay. I love you. If you feel sick, go to the doctor. Otherwise, just have fun and relax. I'll try calling you next week.

I love you. Bye. Andy, Dr. Lessman, I got your message. You do not have COVID-19. The symptoms that you described, trouble urinating, pain in the urethra, prescribed, trouble urinating, pain in the urethra, and a discharge coming out of urethra is not coronavirus. I believe you have chlamydia. I can send you a prescription if you need. Right now, I just need to focus on some of the patients that have coronavirus. Call my office. They'll write you a script, but you don't have coronavirus. Let me know if you need anything else.

See you at your next physical. Bye-bye. When I find myself in times of trouble, C-O-V-I-D-19. There are no words of wisdom in quarantine. I'm in the 80th hour of Netflix And we're almost out of fucking weed There must be a dealer in quarantine Quarantine Quarantine

Quarantine Quarantine There is no toilet paper in quarantine Quarantine, quarantine, quarantine. There is no toilet paper in quarantine. When all the stupid fucking assholes go on vacation to the beach, I'll be sitting on my ass in quarantine. I'll be sitting on my ass in quarantine Now I'm forced to stay home alone But Uber Eats will come to me Bring me meatlovers, pizza and quarantine

Quarantine, quarantine, quarantine, quarantine. There is no toilet paper in quarantine. Oh, come on, come on, give it, man. Quarantine, quarantine, quarantine, quarantine There is no toilet paper in quarantine. All right. We're here. Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. Quarantine

Up in this motherfucker You know what I just realized I'm adopting to this quarantine life I'm fucking Bare ass naked right now In my kitchen Dick wabbling Look do you hear it

No you probably can't But I'm naked We're partying We're partying. We're going to make the best out of this quarantine. You know, Chris, play some fucking Pointer Sisters right now. Come on, baby. Let's go.

Woo! That's what I'm talking about. Get fucking pumped. This is the only way we're going to make through this. Optimism, optimism, optimism. How we doing, everyone? Is everyone doing okay? Wild times out here, out in these streets. California lockdown, New York lockdown. It's crazy. We got to make the best of this situation because we don't know. We're going to be in here for a long time. We might as well play a different song.

Give me something more upbeat, Chris. Give me something more upbeat. Let's go. Yes! Out here. Quarantine life in full effect. I'm having tea. I'm drinking coffee.

I've never eaten so many goddamn vitamins in my life. I'm snorting NyQuil like it's cocaine. Just kidding. We're out here, y'all. We need to put a smile on each other's faces because we could just roll around in our shit or we could fucking live this. We could feel this shit

and we could just try to be the best we can fucking be. So let's listen to this interview. Let's fucking feel good. Let's fucking dance a little bit. Wake up and fucking dance, dude. Come on. Let's enjoy this because you know we're going to look back in this shit 20 years ago and we're going to be fucking stressed out at work again, overworked and underpaid.

I'm like, fuck. Should have took advantage of that quarantine. So take advantage of it now. Get better. Feel good. Read a fucking book. You know, do whatever you got to do. Let's fight this shit with optimism.

All right, guys, enjoy the interview, and I'll catch you on the tail end. Let's fuck this quarantine up. Fuck the Rona. Fuck it. Thank you. All right. Next up on the interview hour, we have the man, the myth, the beard. We got Rev from Little Smokies on the show. Came over the house.

Fucking killer dude. Getting to know this guy has been amazing. This band's killer. And yeah, I just didn't know his past, so I can't wait for you to hear it too. Chris, play some Lil Smokey's while I'm pimping out my motherfucker. But he's the man. It's going to be a great one. Still longer than... No cuts. This is all conversation.

It was a vibe. So, ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy Red Lil Smoke spruce. I can't find the tone to suit this melody Relive the night again Compile the string of truths Now the wild defend And compile a string of truths Another one I'll defend Well, every word that came unglued Got how I've tried to send

A little message out to you But I'm too quiet, babe And you're bending, you're bending too far Don't you wanna know How this ends? And I, I can't find the tone to suit this melody Don't you wanna know where I'm going? And I, I can't find the tone't shoot this melody And we're playing.

Hey, Rev. Hey, what's up, Andy? What's up, Smash Mouth? Well, you remember that dude, John something? He did covers of different songs using just the lyrics to All Star from Smash Mouth. No, what is that? I'll send it to you. What is it?

Explain it to the audience. Let's see here. Hello, audience. We got Rev from Little Smokies on the show today. Hey, why do they call you Rev? Are you prepared for that story right now? Right now. Right now.

We got all the time in the world. We're quarantined, baby. All right. Well, normally I do give a fairly brief, concise explanation. No, go full on. But since we're here, we got some time. We're going to go back to 1986. 86, how old were you?

I was two years old. Okay. I hope that I can accurately portray these events with respect for my folks. So dad, mom, if you're listening out there, pardon me if I don't tell the story right. My parents, or at least my dad, was a heroin addict at one point. And he, hold on for one second here.

I gotta. Yeah, take some breaths. Gotta get into the performance mode again, man. Dude, don't even perform. Just be my friend. I'll be your friend, Andy. All right, so we're going back to 1986 here. My father was a heroin addict,

and the story that I've been told is that I was about two years old, and he had gear, was getting ready to get high, and I was playing with him, trying to get his attention. And he looked down at me, put away the drugs, never touched him again. Why did it take two years of you being born?

Who knows? I'm sure he does. I don't really blame someone for taking time on that. I mean, I don't understand what it's like. don't really blame someone for taking time on that. I mean, that's... I don't understand what it's like. But... Yeah, I don't fault people for

falling victim to those things. Yeah. It's hard to understand, and I can't imagine what it would be like to try to kick heroin. Have you ever been addicted to anything? Let's see here. I can say cigarettes. here. I can say cigarettes.

Yeah. I can say food. Yeah, me too. Performance. Yes. That's very much an addiction for me, playing music. I think we can all identify with physical and mental symptoms. That's the problem. People think that you can just get addicted to drugs. No, you can

get addicted to stimulation like us. I mean, this is why we're fucking crazy people. We stay on the road for 250 shows a year. But we're going to talk about that in a second. I want to get back to this story with your dad kicking heroin for the rev. Oh, yeah. So my parents are as loving and kind as anyone I've ever met. It's an incredible gift that they gave me to stay together for my entire life. They still live in the home that I spent most of my childhood in. Where's that? In Arlington, Washington, just north of Seattle, about an hour.

And it's a small town. Probably, when I lived there, 10,000, 20,000 people in town. And it's a small town. Probably when I lived there, 10, 20,000 people in town. Then we lived outside of town. I was homeschooled with my two brothers and an ostrich farm next door. Oh my God. And we'll talk later about ostrich mating calls and dances. All right, cool. So you're in Washington. You're two years old. Two years old.

My father decides to throw it all down and give it up for me. And I'm sure for my mom. But I'll always be grateful for his willpower and determination there. And then even more so my mother's. Because I don't believe that she was using heroin at that time and i can't imagine the difficulties there and the the love that that must take especially when she's pregnant and you're and papa bear is fucking shooting up yeah hey kudos mom if you're listening yeah shout out to mom bear mama rev mama rev. And the point of this is they got themselves a second belly button and traded heroin for Jesus.

You get born again, you get a second belly button. Is that what they call it? Well, that's what I've heard it referred to as. Were they religious before? I don't believe so. I think it was always a part of their lives, but not like they committed to. I truly believe the spirit of Christ, beyond being involved in organized religion, I do believe that is the reason why they're Christians,

is because they want to be like Christ. And that's something that I can obviously really appreciate. I think you have to, when someone can look past some of the shortcomings of an organization and follow its purpose, its original purpose. I'm not a religious man. Were you growing up? Yes.

And because of church, that's where I started playing piano. So that's where this all was headed. I get saved by Jesus. When? Well, I would argue that Jesus saved me when my dad stopped doing drugs. Yeah, okay. So my life has been made better. I've been able to do almost anything I've ever wanted because of Jesus, which is an

interesting wrestling match where I don't believe in it. I didn't choose to not believe in it. I fell from grace naturally. But I was saved by Jesus, I think. Yeah. So being saved by Jesus, you're going through this. You're learning piano. And how'd the Rev name come then?

All right. It's going to take a minute to get to the punchline here. Because it all plays a part, I believe. I fell in love with hymns playing piano in church. They're gorgeous, more or less Bach chorales. Many of the lyrics are really inspiring. For example, it's the one, Be Thou My Vision is a lovely tune. What's the lyrics of that?

Be thou my vision, O Lord of my life. Oh man. Now I gotta remember it. What did you like about it? What was the meaning? Basically you can have hope even in the darkest hour.

It is well with my soul. A mighty fortress is our God. These songs that really bring people together around community and taking care of each other are gorgeous tunes that are written in the style of traditional Western harmony, which is another part of where we're going to. And I understand the hope

that that kind of community can provide. We find it in our musical community. I feel strongly that we're going to church every night when we go out and play. Yeah, especially when we go to festivals and all our pastorsures in a say all are together at the fucking watering

or the water jug or it's just the dad machine or whatever we fucking hippies do these days yeah the sacraments of our religion are a little more fun than just wafers and grape juice. But so you're here, you're there. Did you feel like, were you always having dark thoughts when you were a kid? No, I had the greatest childhood ever. My parents instilled an undying sense of

confidence in me. You can do anything. Believe in yourself. If you need something, we got it for you. believe in yourself if you need something we got it for you um and something that i think back on like my parents spent thousands of dollars buying me different musical equipment on different whims you look back on it it's a ton of money but we've lost sight of that because oh four grand for a keyboard that's yeah whatever that's how much they cost in this case like you know 500 for a guitar for a 16 year old kid that's insane yeah so it's like whatever if you want to do this we're gonna do it right yeah they they really did allow me to do whatever i wanted um and let's see here so fall in love with piano fall in love with that get into in love with that, get into this church band. And it was a big church. There were like 650, 700 people.

That's what it could hold at the time. So you go into church Wednesdays with the kids and shit, watching the fucking Jesus band, like, what's up, God? Totally. Totally. How we doing, God? Yeah. Were you part of that band?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. So the church band was hot, man. We had four different bands. Yeah? Really badass Steinway, Drum Kit, occasionally Horns. And we got down, man. The church band was lit, dog.

Dude, it was fire. The most adult contemporary experience of my life. we got down, man. Michael W. Smith. The church band was lit, dog. Dude, it was fire. The most adult contemporary experience of my life. And you know what? I still love adult contemporary music. Speaking of, like Kenny Rogers. Yeah, rest in peace. So rest in peace, Kenny. Thank you for being so adult and so contemporary.

But I love that music, the church music from the 90s. What do you like about it? I think it's the same thing I like about hearing the other music. It's about overcoming adversity together. Yeah. I think people are going to always find interesting ways to get there. But if that is your focus, I can get behind your path. We all stumble on our way to that, in whatever way you're going with it.

You've never stumbled? Not even once. Really? Let's see here. I've been stumbling for, I think it all started, the stumble began in college. And actually, we can kind of, we can get to that now. So piano started it then i got into drums played that for for quite a while uh in college tried out bass uh was never

terribly good at it are you good at drums sick at drums dog still good yeah i was called the quest love of ellensburg once, which is undue. In fact, I don't actually... Here would be my ad as a drummer. Drummer available, has van, has drum set, does not play fills. That's my... Fucking pocket drummer, baby.

I will just give you a groove. You want a groove? Rev is my... I am your fucking drummer, dog. Exactly. It's not because i don't like them it's because i'm not why you're the white quest love yeah yeah i um i never really loved playing drum fills i was never very good at it yeah um i've always sort of been a musician without a home uh without an instrument kind of still still musician without uh at least

without a home today my home is andy frasco's house welcome welcome yeah uh let me see help me out where were we so you're high school you're learning all these instruments you're getting into college yeah you're everything's happy and then all of a sudden maybe college hit and uh uh yeah we can yeah we can sum it up with... Have you been the Rev yet? No, the Rev has not happened yet, but the Rev is brewing within this Matt Rieger... In high school? Why? What's brewing? What was the first thing that started to brew it?

I'm sure there were others that I just didn't notice. But the one that really sticks out is Pauly Tsai, first year at Central Washington University. The professor was Cameron Autopolic. I doubt that he remembers me. But Cameron, if you're out there, thank you for what I'm about to describe. I was still really, really into Jesus, Christianity being the only way to salvation. At 20 years old still. And you know what? I don't think that was a bad thing. Whatever I did brought me here today. And so we're good.

But Cameron Autopolic, straightforward man. I said something about Islam being a violent religion. And he turns his head slowly and goes, well, you don't know what you're talking about. And I'm grateful for that moment because it was the first time that my worldview was challenged, really. I'd certainly discussed some of these questions about Christianity, but it had never been confronted in that way. Were you like speaking in tongues and shit? no i've i've never i've never spoken in tongues i've never and here's the core of it why i'm no longer a christian is that i've never felt the lord's presence uh what about during the years of middle school? And like, do you feel it there? Or looking back at it, maybe it was just like forced. A mix of, there's a little bit of that going on.

But more importantly, I remember the sense of community. I remember singing songs with these people about hope and salvation and feeling like I wasn't alone. And that's hard to find anywhere in the world. But were you alone? I wasn't. I've never't alone. And that's hard to find anywhere in the world. But were you alone? I wasn't. I've never been alone. My parents and my family have always been incredible.

Cool. So this professor, he changes your view. Yeah, he changes my view completely. And he didn't change it. But what he did was make me think, okay, well, if I'm going to be well-rounded and become the person that I should be and want to be, I'm going to have to evaluate some more things in my life. Why do I believe this? And then someone turned me on to Richard Dawkins. Still love him.

I can't listen or read to too much of it, listen to or read to much of it because it kind of turns me into him. I get a little sassy. Yeah, that's how I feel with Alan Watts. Yeah, a little. Growing up, when you just chest our brain,

when people finally check you, they're like, all right, think differently. I'm like, Al Watts was my guy, dude. Yeah. But like, yeah, I get it because we're sponges. Yeah. I think musicians, a lot of that is. Yeah.

So keep going. So I fell from grace. It took years, several years. What's that mean, fall from grace? Well, in the traditional context, I think it means to deny the notion that Christ is the only way to heaven. The belief in Christ is your savior. Do you want a beer? No, thank you. I like beer.

Well, actually, you know what? I don't really like beer. No? No. You know I love a champagne cocktail. Have you got any of them lying around? Yeah, keep telling your story. I think I do.

Go, keep going. Yeah, all right. So I fell from grace, which means to, at least in the historical context, to deny Christ as your Savior. to denying Christ as your Savior. And like I said, it took years. But when it finally happened, it wasn't a choice that I made. It was, I was compelled to feel that way.

And that's why I've been able to kind of smooth things over a little bit with those who are concerned about my salvation, that it's between me and whatever God is out there. What were they concerned of? Well, here's another wrestling match I have in my head. I'm pro-evangelicalism, and this is why. If you truly believe that someone is going to suffer for all of eternity, and you don't tell them that I feel this way,

and for your well-being, I would like to talk to you about Jesus Christ. However misguided I see that, I understand it. And I think it's okay. Because my parents have never once lied to me about any of this. They've never, all they've done is shown concern for me and given me the best life that they can give me. And part of that is, in their eyes, to go to heaven. They want me to go to heaven. Who, in their eyes, to go to heaven. They want me to go to heaven.

Who wouldn't want their child to go to heaven? And if you actually believe that there's a possibility that your child won't go to heaven, and you don't do anything to change that, does that make you even, could you be considered a bad parent? Yeah. It's kind of like, and I hate to make this comparison because it's not, I'll find a better one someday,

but it's not terribly flattering to the religious perspective. But for me to say that Jesus isn't real is just like me going up to someone who has schizophrenia and saying those voices aren't real. Uh-huh, I get that. So I do, in that sense, Jesus is very real and helps a lot of people. The idea of a Jesus is very real. Well, yeah. And then also the idea of you in this room with me is real, but it's also, you know,

we don't know, man. Yeah. I do believe it. i have a lot of evidence to suggest that i'm in your house yeah but it is still just an idea man going down the rabbit hole so keep going go back to this college thing okay uh i went to high sierra music fest yes i believe it was like 2006 or 7 um i wish that i could remember i could probably look up the lineup but anyway um my friend in the music department took me there uh great guitar player tarik if you're out there thanks for taking me to high Sierra. It's my first music festival.

Always will be my home music festival. And, man, we were able to expedite this Rev process because I hope you all are just hanging on for dear life here. We'll get to the point. I mean, this whole thing is... Yeah, and I think the most important part, understand the deeply embedded religious undertones in my life, that those are relevant to why I'm called Rev now. Not directly, but they're a big part of it.

So it is at High Sierra Music Festival that I see some artists such as Arnie DeFranco, Fareed Haque, and the Flat Earth Ensemble. Is that your hometown festival, kind of? It's the one that is, yeah, it's my home festival. The folks there have been so kind, so supportive. I can't thank them enough.

That production crew, including, well, we all know who does production at High Sierra. It's Guido. Guids! Guids! He just texted me, actually. Yeah. Hey, Guido, thank you for all your support all these years.

Yeah, same here, Guido. But yeah, High Sierra's home fest for me. And they had, I think it's still going on in some way, but they have the pickin' porch there, which is now the Shabbat tent, I believe. That's cool. Nice folks there. But anyway, I meet some folks. This is a little later, I think, a couple years later, 2010 maybe.

I meet Jacob, Mimi, Naja, Kellen, T-Tom. Fruition. Fruition at the Pickin' Porch. Nathan Mooreellen, T-Tom. Fruition. Fruition. At the Pick and Porch, Nathan Moore, Willie T. Taylor. It's been a lot of mornings playing whatever songs we could pull together while the late nights are getting out at four. Crowds are building and shrinking until eventually it's just a few of us hanging out. Is that maybe why Nathan does that thing uh at jam cruise man i wonder which one is the chicken and the egg there i don't know i feel like nathan does inspire that i hope so well he's high sierra and shit

yeah absolutely well he's one of the biggest inspirations in my life too. Why? That is an honest man. He gives you all of what he is. Faults, strengths, all of it. I had one conversation with him. We did a second line. From after my show, we made the whole

crowd go to Nathan's concert. There was literally a thousand people. Then he was like what the fuck i love that guy yeah man um he's he's just he taught me i don't know he was kind of one of the first people i saw up and close like that just like here's me and my guitar and certainly i'd seen that before but not in that way in that transparent sharing way that nathan has um the same with brad bar from the bar brothers yeah um those are the two people who i think if we're talking about the the the seeds of songwriting being planted in my brain is it was those guys

um which led me to so many other folks. But Nathan and Brad are the two guys that kind of really got me going on wanting to write songs. But it is that pick and circle where a man named Steve Owen from San Francisco, I lived there for a while, and he started calling me the right Reverend Matthew Rieger first at the pick and circle

because I would always play these Ralph Stanley songs, these old gospel songs. So he started calling me the Right Reverend Matthew Rieger first at the pick and circles because I would always play these Ralph Stanley songs, these old gospel songs. So he started calling me the Right Reverend Matthew Rieger circa 2012, 11, something like that maybe. Sorry, my memory's a little foggy about that whole time. And let's see here. Oh, he shows up at High Sierra. and then when oh six no this was yeah i think more like 11 12 okay so five years gone by you haven't been called the rev yet yeah no one well no so

that was it was pretty new then i think probably 11 or 12 was when i started going to the pics in san francisco and that's where ste met me, started calling me Rev. And then a couple years later, so maybe even 13, 14, probably by 13, I would think, he shows up and calls me Rev. And that kind of caught on with Nathan, Willie, Jay, and Mimi. Willie, Jay, and Mimi. And so the

Coreva virus spread through Jay. One by one. One by one. And the world is being taken over now. There's folk singers everywhere now. You have 12 day quarantine or you will become a folk singer.

Well, that's great though i mean so like you're picking you're finally feeling your strive are you still listening to christian music around here no i was uh start taking some drugs like some acid or what yeah you know it was right around then i was a late bloomer there first drug you took uh alcohol when uh alcohol. When? I was first drunk in the year 2005. Wow, that's late. Yeah. So, how old were you, 20?

I'm 35. So, 2005, 15, so you're 20. Yeah, yeah, 2021. I'm pretty sure I was 21. Yeah, so, normal. Yeah, not crazy crazy Were you fucking? No well Not until right about then

Okay But I was not cool for a very long time I hope people can wrap their heads around Well like no pussy like no girlfriend No I had a girlfriend technically That we had planned on Saving our first kiss for the wedding day. Religious?

Yeah. Wow. No fingering? No jack off in front of each other? No. Nothing. Holy shit. You know what?

I'm grateful for it now, honestly, that I maintained some innocence until I was... Why? Because I think, except for the pussy, you should probably do that. Get some pussy. Yeah. It's like, the pussy, you should probably do that. Get some pussy. Yeah. It's like, you know, you see Little Miss Sunshine. Hold on, were you beaten off? Yeah.

A lot? I would hope an average amount. What's an average amount? Well, back then it wasn't nearly as high as it is now because of the goddamn internets. Oh my God, yeah. I couldn't, can you imagine? I used to come on the same JPEG.

It's gross. I was really into ladies' necks for a while because that was as far as the image would download by the time I finished. So you're basically abstinent. You basically don't know about this vagabond life yet until you're 21. That's pretty fucking awesome.

Kind of crazy. But I think it allowed for some development that was probably helpful for me, not necessary for everyone. Like what? Like an unaltered mind in terms of chemical, an unaltered, chemically unaltered mind until 21 has a chance to breathe, I think.

I've managed to fuck it up since then. Of course, me too. So, okay, so you have this idea, this pure sense. You didn't, no pussy, no drugs, no alcohol really until your brain's fully developed, has enough oxygen in it. Yeah. Then you get to this point in your life where you meet all these fucking hippies.

These goddamn hippies, let me tell you. Did it change your life for the better? Absolutely. I'm a recovering wook uh you can you can imagine me maybe some uh some genes covered in patches and what'd you like about wook life um i think it was it was just diving off of this perch of innocence and impurity and just going for it, untethered, fuck everything that I've ever thought to be true. You're purging. Purging. Yeah.

And I think generally speaking, the pendulum swings as far as it is drawn. So, you know, it's like if you go 16 years of basically only associating with homeschooled Christian folks to... That clock's coming. To High Sierra. So do you remember the first moment where you saw that looks? And you're like, like whoa i need to be this yeah you know it was high sierra i'm sure yeah but do you remember the exact moment was someone like puffing a fucking nitrous balloon or like you know what it was it was this it was

this dude never never introduced myself uh never never met him but he's he's one of those guys where like he's at every festival. He just doesn't... At that time, I don't think festivals were running quite as widely as they are now in terms of dates. But yeah, I looked at this guy and I'm like,

shit, that guy looks like Jesus. Full on, he had that vibe. And I've never seen it before. And I've never seen it before. But I get like the, you see these pictures of Jesus and you're like, oh, shit, that guy was at High Sierra for sure. Just kind of this like everything's going to be okay vibe. Like, come with me.

I got you vibe from this dude. And it was then that I was like, you know what? Let's cut loose here. Put on a fucking bandana. Pierce your ears. Did you have a conversation with this? No, I never met the- Wook Jesus?

This Wook Jesus. Wook Jesus? I think I've met Wook Jesus in different forms around the country in different campsites and music festivals. Different Wook Jesus. Because Wook Jesus in different forms around the country, in different campsites and music festivals. Different Wook Jesus, because Wook Jesus is really more than that. Yeah. Wook Jesus is the idea that a man who is not concerned with possessions,

not terribly concerned with his appearance, or some of the more fickle things in life. It's universal. And he also has long hair and a beard. That represents goodness. So what if Jesus was actually a fucking wook, dog? I do believe that Jesus was in fact a wook. Could be.

Yeah. So here's an interesting book, too, on that topic. A book that really changed my life. It's called Zealot. So the first was God Del, a book that really changed my life, Zealot. So the first was God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. The second was Zealot. I hope I'm saying it right, Reza Aslan. Talking about, Reza was talking about being pragmatic, being objective, and saying, like, what do we know about this time period, this geography, this town, what was going on?

Instead of following stories, finding things that we can verify, and the Antiquities is a secular history book from that time, or a book about history. Being objective and saying, what could have been? being objective and saying, what could have been? And his conclusion, and I hope that he isn't offended by this, but is that these were beautiful stories not intended to be history. More of campfire stories? Yeah, campfire stories to make people feel good about the future and give people hope. And especially in times like these, I'm just like, you know,

whatever you got to do to find hope. And if that's Jesus, if that's... I'm so excited music videos. I'm so excited music videos streaming now. But it's true. It's like, what is hope? Yeah. How is it?

What is hope? Yeah. How is it? I think hope lies in belief and things that have been seen. That's why I prefer hope to faith. I prefer belief to faith. Because I do have reason to believe that things are going to be okay. Yeah.

I don't think that because of something that we don't have evidence for, which is kind of a core part of the word faith. Belief without reason. It's a harsh perspective on the word, but that's what I think faith is. So do you think seeing these wooks and seeing this live festival scene for the first time made you, instead of faith, believe in hope? That's a great way to put it. Because you're seeing it all.

This is what I've always imagined faith to be. Exactly. seeing it all like yeah this is what i've always imagined well and to be exactly uh and you know one of the the big moments i i is the big moments of that festival was for reed hawk high on acid my first time um and what did he do to you i mean it was it was a it was a fairly out-of-body experience. Hearing music that people really, really loved to play. I was playing a lot of music that I didn't love to play. And what I felt was a connection beyond a brain connection.

There was a heart connection. Most of the music that I played was to stimulate my brain. And when I saw Fareed Haq, I had a great, like, seated in the vaudeville tent. And I felt heart music for, maybe not the first time, but what I heard was, I heard this love and deep gratitude and gratification from this music.

So I had to give up what I was doing at that point and try to be a hippie rock star. Oh, so that was the moment? That was basically it. It was High Sierra. I had the same moment. I was 19. I saw Damien Rice live.

And I've always thought I was going to be a teacher, not a musician. I was over it. I was working in the music industry. And I saw this guy. High. I was probably high. I went by myself. It was in Oakland.

Because I went to college at SF State. I haven't heard of him for a long I heard his name for so long Irish Folkteller that's like my dream dude what you're doing with your band

is what I've always wanted to do play folk play fucking songs that fucking feel you know and to have that moment there

so that changed your life you're do you think that moment in that vaudeville stage changed your life yeah to who you are now same with Ani DiFranco that year same with life you're do you think that moment in that vaudeville stage changed your life yeah absolutely same with anita franco that year same with uh that's a big year for you bud yeah this was a couple years after i started going i i can't remember exactly which one but um at first when

you're going into high s, still pure Christian Matt. Yeah, I had gone in there. So 21 came around, alcohol came around. And if you want to talk about a gateway drug, I would insist that it's alcohol. Why? Because it's legal, it's encouraged, it's widely accepted. And of course, you're going to start there. And if we're trying to say that alcohol is not a drug,

I don't really know what we can do with that conversation because it is. So in that sense, it's going to be, for most people, the first drug they take. And then that will lead them to other drugs. Yeah. And so we are coming to the great stumble of matthew rieger uh it wasn't a year later that i was probably uh about a year later maybe selling cocaine it was it happened quick uh yeah real quick. Selling cocaine? From sober to selling cocaine in like two years, maybe.

Shut the fuck up. Are you serious? Yeah. Alcohol. That should be the promo for alcohol. It all started with, yeah. Alcohol. Alcohol.

Good Christian boy into $40 a gram, 108 ball. Yep, pretty much. It was a terrible blow8 ball. Yeah, pretty much. It was a terrible blow, too. So, hold on. Why did you get into Coke? Well, if you've done Coke, you know why I got into Coke. If you haven't done it, my advice is not to. You'll be fine.

You can live. Do you like speed? Yeah. Did you feel like that was something you was missing in your life? Well, are we talking old school speed or any sort of amphetamine? Whatever got you... How was your first feeling in cocaine? It could have been meth or fucking whatever it is. I call it everything.

Speed, coke, all that stuff. It's a blanket term. They're all doing the same. They try to accomplish the same they they try to accomplish the same thing what do you like about that what do you like about that drug um well i don't have any problem chilling i can i can chill very easily um but the excitement the excitement the curiosity the i mean like jesse pinkman said it well in uh in breaking bad when he's trying to get the girl at the gas station to try it and he's like it just makes everything interesting and though

everyone talks so much yeah so we're talking i'm talking about cocaine here but any kind of speed upper that's what you're that's what you're chasing with it and you're i think you're going to chase the first time that's all you're doing is chasing the first time you did it and so my my advice is if you you know no one should do cocaine it's not good for you it's there's no justification for it i still love it yeah i i love it too much i had to stop doing it yeah i i've heard I've heard those stories. And, you know. Beating off in a bathroom in Europe.

Just like. Which I've done completely sober, buddy. It is halftime at the Andy Fresco interview hour. Hello, I am Arnold Bakker. And this is Staying Relevant with Arno Bakker. Today we will analyze lyrical structures and hidden messages in the song Spine of a Dog by the artist Mo. Shall we get started? I am a pinball machine. I can't tell the difference between my belly button or navel, ping-pong, pool cue or a foosball table.

Why is it you ask me why? I don't know the answer. Why is it you ask me why? I don't know the answer. Why is it you ask me why? I don't transmit what hits my eye. We're the same, yeah, you and me. Except you say potato and I say three. I'm thinking of what I'd rather be. Paramecium is looking pretty good to me. I'd be so small you could not see. I could still be your worst enemy. What utter nonsense.

This song from 1996 reminds me of 1976 when in the Muppet Show Rolf sang Caudlston, Caudlston, Caudlston pie. A fish can't whistle, and neither can I. Ask me a riddle, and I'll reply. Caudlston, Caudlston, Caudlston pie. A sung poem, actually written by A. A. Milne in 1926. You hear Pooh Bear rhyming. And the beautiful thing about utter nonsense is that it flexes your mind. It makes you crawl in the other's mind.

It learns you to accept that life doesn't rhyme. It makes you settle for unclarity or curious for answers. And it shows you a multi-layered world. Is that still relevant? See you next week in Staying Relevant with Arno Bacher. Okay, so why did you start selling Coke? Were you poor? Well, I wanted to do more Coke. Okay. So that's a logical progression there for a lot of people

so you end up just like paying for the coke that you're doing through selling it yeah and at this point I've used how old are you here? 25, 24 after this moment with

I should have gone through and thought about that for a second I want to get the years right but that's within a year or two of where we're at it's so early the acid trip in the vaudeville tent into you seeing a light of different perspection or perspection

yeah you know what I'm saying and then you're in San Francisco right where you live. So all of a sudden you have these new feelings in life, new flavors. Yeah. And you get addicted to them. Yeah.

So how many years were you selling cocaine for? Not long. And here's why. I sold to a guy who stole a car. And I get a call from one of my friends saying, this dude got busted and he's going to flip on you. But how much were you selling for someone to be like, I think I probably sold him a gram.

But were you selling weight? No. But you know were you selling weight? No. So like. But you know how that whole thing goes. I would end up, they would have tried to get me to flip and et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And you know what? I absolutely would have. Kevin Murphy.

You're lucky I didn't get arrested. Yeah. But it's true. So that happened? That scared you shitless? Yeah. And then I got sober. I smoked a little pot.

Because you're still a good Christian boy. I'm still deep down Matthew Rieger. He's still there. You're getting Matthew Rieger today. That's great. Does Matthew Rieger always eat at Rev? Wait. Oh! Like, you know, the inner voice, the inner Matthew Rieger always eat at Rev. Wait, back.

Oh, like, you know, the inner voice, the inner Matthew Rieger, when you're becoming Rev and you're becoming your adult, you know, cause I think we have different phases in life.

You know, we become different people. Like I, in my twenties, I used to just fuck everything and, you know, not care about anything and just fuck and just live my life. Honestly,

I think that's kind of do your best to keep it trimmed and neat and tidy the best you can, but that is a good idea, I think, to go nuts at some point in your life. Get out of control. Make some weird, crazy decisions. Just try to trim the mistakes. Don't fuck anybody over and don't go to jail yeah be a good person do it

those are the best ways to crash in life I think because you build out of that yeah hold on say that again you build when you come out of that you build a better person you build a more deliberate you I think when you reach

kind of what will be your rock bottom. Have you ever had a rock, what's your rock bottom? Was it that time? Yeah, I dropped out of school for a few reasons, but under the guise of nobility, for sure, thinking, oh, I have to pursue what makes me happy, not what I have to do to get through college. I probably should have just wrapped it up.

However, I'm happier now than I've ever been. And so whatever mistakes, quote unquote mistakes I made, have brought me here. So no problem. We're good. So why do we feel like we have to always judge our past? Oh, man. I don't know.

It seems like everybody does it. When I think we should, well, it's easy for me to say as someone who's privileged, been able through the help and guidance of so many people to accomplish what I've always wanted to do. Easy to say for me, all your mistakes just make you stronger. But you know what? Sometimes those mistakes don't pan out. And so I'm grateful for my privileges

and the opportunities that have been given to me because they made me who I am instead of someone who's dead or in jail. Explain any mistakes that didn't pan out. What is one that you feel didn't pan out? Let's see here. I should have gone to therapy when my ex asked me to go to therapy.

I should have gone to therapy sooner. ex asked me to go to therapy. I should have gone to therapy sooner. But we broke up and everything's good. We're both happier and better and more successful. Were you heartbroken that I fucked you up? Oh my God. That was as sad as I've ever been. When? It was February 13th, 2013.

Damn. So you got out of Coke. Yep. You cleaned up. Were you with your chick when you were selling Coke? No, no. We were together, but not living together. And then we moved to San Francisco.

So you were fucking and just like dating? Yeah. I mean, it was, you know, what's the Facebook status? It's complicated for the bulk of the relationship. But our hearts were always, in some way, shape, or form, heavily invested. Okay, so you guys move in with each other. What happened? Well, she went through a traumatic incident in West Oakland

that led to some post-traumatic stress. I, you know, she says that I did a good stress. I, I, you know, she, she says that I did a good job. I, I obviously think I could have done better, but everyone feels that way.

Just like we were talking about, you know, but she went through some traumatic stuff, uh, and then urged me to go to therapy. And I didn't, it didn't take long. Why was she urging you to go to therapy when she was going through traumatic stuff? Was she going, did she go to therapy? Yes didn't. And it didn't take long. Why was she urging you to go to therapy when she was

going through traumatic stuff? Did she go to therapy? Yes. Extensive therapy. So she was helping. Yeah. She was absolutely right. If you're out there, Ray, you were right. Because now you're doing therapy and you feel better. Yes. Great. I've been out for a minute

here. I've got to get back with him. It's been I think it's been a month or two since we've chatted. So this heartbreak, tell me about it. This heartbreak, yeah. We were engaged. At a certain point, it became clear that we were both planning on this long haul. So it made sense. And we got engaged.

So you got engaged. Mm-hmm. And how long did the engagement last for? Did you go engage? Were you engaged because you felt like you were losing her? I've never been asked that. I've never considered it. But it's possible, but I don't think so.

I loved her with all of my heart, and I think she felt the same way. Um, we still love each other deeply in a non, the romance is over, but you know, she said, she said it well, she said, what, what I went through, we went through. Uh, so we, we went through some, some pretty rough stuff, um, together. together and if when you do that with someone i don't you know i understand why people break up after traumatic situations and diseases um yeah the ptsd mental health you know when shit goes down you might break up. And I don't ever fault anyone for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I loved her very much, still do.

So you're heartbroken. You're heartbroken. It's 2011. Do you are 12? No, this is now 2013. OK, it's 2013. Do you meet little smokies yet? Well, let me see here.

You know who I had met was Andy's dad, John Dunnigan. If you're out there john shut up john kudos bro what happened uh i i was uh you know i was still in ellensburg where i went to school and i was just looking for work uh and and if anyone out there is keeping track of these dates you'll have to uh you have to forgive me if i messed up this stuff it's a long life yeah it's been a wild ride uh so let's see here i was just looking for gigs you know the reason i'm here today and if you know i if anyone out there is struggling to find to keep busy and obviously things are radically different right now via quarantine yeah um but if anyone is struggling to make money playing music

and be a professional musician, my advice is just take every chance you get and call it back immediately. You have to be on top of every single gig. That's not how everyone's going to find their path, but it worked for me, where you get an offer you you just play so you meet i meet andy's dad playing with the dave rollinson band that's tight uh not i'm not no i'm thinking of rollings yeah i've never played music with davidlings. I would like to, though.

He's a great player. But the Dave Rawlinson band is a classic country outfit, or was, in Ellensburg, fronted by, I believe, he's an attorney. Oh, it's right in the geographic center of Washington State so you went back to Washington no this we're going back

to when I met Johnny D Andy's dad was that time basically in college when I was just playing with whoever would hire me

okay and so I landed landed a gig with this band called the Dave Rollins band and we would alternate sets

with John Dunn again and that would have been around 2006 or something like that, way back when. Is Andy your age? Andy is a couple years younger than me. But I didn't meet him and the boys until Wintergrass,

not Winter Wondergrass, Wintergrass in Seattle, Bellevue, Washington. I met Cameron Wilson, former Little Smokies mandolin player. Cameron, if you're out there. What happened to him? What's up, brother? He quit the band shortly after I joined. We were only in the group together for about six or seven months. He has a wife, a home.

He's a woodworker now. I'm always so happy to see him he's he's uh the most fun person to hang out with at a music festival that i've ever met and that's a it's a competitive category it's it's incredible like some people just don't like the road yeah and you know same with like i got my job because the guitar player the original guitar player little smokies wanted to go do laundry whenever you want do the big grocery shop yeah do uh not care about bus call van call load in any of that like you know i guess everyone has their bus call everyone has their load and it's just different but. But yeah, the road is not. It's the greatest thing I've ever done and what I love most,

but it's really hard. What's hard about it? Lonely. Being lonely when you're surrounded by others. Yeah. And not allowing yourself to feel that because you think, oh, how could I be sad? How could I be lonely?

I'm doing everything I've ever wanted with all my friends around me all the time. Yeah. But that being said, your friends are all around you all the time. Is it a mind state? Because we're just, do you think we force ourselves to stay on the road because we don't want intimacy? You know, it's a good point. I mean, you're like me rev we're like we just like shoo away our feelings and just stay in fucking the kipsy fucking illinois because the band doesn't want so you could say you know because you have another flight in two days like you're

telling me like yeah you never had a home have you ever had a home? Yes. My home, broadly speaking, is the Pacific Northwest. Right now, I love the Oregon coast. It's where I feel most at rest and at peace. I don't know why. It's hard to say. Yeah, I feel that. This is the first time I picked a home, Denver. Yeah, it's a great home to Yeah, I feel that. This is the first time I picked a home.

Denver. It's a great home to pick. I love it. I'm having the best time. The people here are just so cool. I've never had a girlfriend, Rev. I've had multiple one-night stands. Wait, you've never had a girlfriend?

Never. I've really only had one serious relationship. I've not had a had a bunch of relationships but it was long why do you think that well honestly like if you guys so can you imagine me with like a shaved head and a goatee wearing a track suit like nope yeah that's why i'm like it's crazy to me that you're like some devoted christian who didn't get no pussy and like didn't take drugs when you're 12 you know like it's just like the vibe that's yeah psychedelic drugs will change your life what's wrong what's wrong what's wrong at that time no no right like what do you think is it intimacy oh oh uh you know so i've had i've had a you know i had a love that um i don't think a lot of people ever get to have my my time with my ex i i felt a love that i'm

grateful for i think that's it it's hard to find yeah. My parents have shown me unconditional love in that way, in a non-romantic way, I should say. But thankfully. Likewise. No, but seriously, what are you running from right now? Or do you think you're running? Do you enjoy this life or are you lonely right now? You know, yes.

Yes to what? Both is the answer to that. I think my official press release statement here, I am uncomfortable taking on someone else's emotional needs or at least a significant responsibility for their emotional needs because I disregard my own emotional needs for the sake of my career. And it's always felt like an unfeeling position, but it is how I am.

And I try to be really candid about that with any potential partners or romantic relationships, that candor is going to save you. Being honest with what you can and cannot provide will help, will always help. Maybe that means you need to never see this person again. But that's probably better if you're, you know, given that you've been honest with them. And so I try to be honest with people about that. I think that I am lonely and that they're more lonely than I've been.

Like for the last year or so, I think I felt a I am lonely and that they're more lonely than I've been. Like for the last year or so, I think I felt a little more lonely. Like needing of one person that you can go back to and who knows it all. You don't have to explain. You know, there's no disclaimer in your conversation. Like they've read it. They know what you are and how you feel about things and so i miss i miss going back to that same person yeah and uh you know your nickname doesn't fucking help because what is a reverend you're giving out advice and you're giving out

spiritual guidance same thing as a musician yep you give out spirited guidance to everybody and then you don't leave any for yourself yeah and that's how sometimes how we feel lonely like it makes perfect sense i mean that's what i'm trying to understand my therapist you know i've been talking to about he's this fucking he's like there's no bullshit Old man Jew. He does all the comedians. He's like, yeah, you're just depressed. He's like, oh, really? Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, man, hard-nosed Judaism.

Isn't it beautiful? Oh, exactly. What about, is it the same as hard-nosed Christianity or what? It is, just not nearly as funny. Yeah, it's true. My ex is Jewish. Yeah, it's true. My ex is Jewish, and her father is an inspiration, first and foremost, but just such a beautiful cartoon of a Jewish man with some incredible, incredible advice mixed in with some wildly inappropriate positions on things. He is a fount of all sorts of knowledge and things.

But so funny. And in that, like, what did the doctor say way? Like, I care about you deeply, but I'm going to be incredibly honest and no bullshit with you. And ask these questions in a way that might not seem terribly considerate. Terribly genuine. No, but just straight to the point.

Hey, no bullshit. Let's talk about this. Let's talk about this. That's a real friend. I don't like sugarcoating. I don't want a relationship full of sugarcoat. You know, we have to do that all the time. We have to sugarcoat promoters. We have to sugarcoat, you know, just to keep this shit rocking.

I mean, like, life is short, man. And if we can't fucking be authentic, then what the fuck are we doing? Things are fucking spotlight on me. Sorry, you got to get in here, buddy. Get in there. Yeah, there we go. I'm a shady kind of fella, you know? So, are me out where are we at now i want to talk about this do you are you still in love with your ex-girlfriend she married no i'm not in love with her i love her right yeah does that make sense i uh last we spoke she had a a solid

relationship I think we haven't talked in a little bit I'd like to actually reach out to her this morning but yeah I still love her I'm not in love with her though it's pretty clear that we're supposed to be separate what are you in love with

she's funnier than me she's smarter than me no in general oh right now what am I in love with i gotcha i guess well was that a revealing answer to that question uh what am i in love with um i think you still like this girl oh yeah well as in i don't i don't i don't have a romantic vibe with her anymore. Physical intimacy.

We're friends. It's more of intellectual intimacy. It's experience intimacy. Oh, like how much you've dealt with. We've dealt with together the most challenging part of our lives. And so that bond will never die. So it's like the same thing with your band. Yeah. Yeah, it's the same thing with your band. Yeah.

Yeah, it's the same thing. Nice. Yeah, it's the exact same thing, where you are married to this group. And even when you're burnt out. And like, you know, we were just talking about this when we were smoking a stick. Quarantine life.

You know, like maybe this is a blessing it's in disguise when we work everyone works so much with the same people and just fucking grind grind grind grind grind you see everyone you know it's like then we start not taking these little things for granted you know yep we start just now that's everyday life yeah and then when you not have it for going into the pilot or the the flying j or the tna like exactly man i love it you know you start missing the pilot you miss the loves dude like where's the love dude where's that shitty coffee and the crackhead fucking driver just cracked out at 4am hey neighbor are you doing anything over there I miss the shit out of that

but I wasn't missing it when I was burnt out exactly you don't know what you got till it's gone yeah and so let's explain that yeah were you getting burnt out I think if anyone tries to tell you that they'd never Were you getting burnt out?

I think if anyone tries to tell you that they'd never get burnt out and then overcome it every single tour, I'm calling bullshit. Yeah, same here. If you tour, you know exactly what I'm talking about, where you're going to fall apart. I'm not really too sympathetic at a two-week run. Like, come on, you can do this.

But like a two-month run. Like, come on. You can do this. But like a two-month run. Month and a half. Yeah. You tell them you didn't break during that. Yeah. Yeah, you can lie. Yeah, get out of here. So why do you think?

Well, it's what I love. It's what I'm in love with. It's my favorite drug. What is? Performance, touring. Me too. It's the drug and i talked with my therapist about this there's this this may be common um a common term i don't know but he for the first time explained to me the hedonic norm have you ever heard that before i haven't so this is one of my this is one of my favorite conversations with him.

He says there's a normal steady release of serotonin. There's like a level that you run at. And when you experience well, so many things. Rollercoaster, comedy club,

coffee with a friend. Your serotonin is going to spike. And so when you just hit it hard with performance every night pretty much, it doesn't fall back down to the normal level. It's still riding at this. So imagine a graph and it's just up at eight or nine. It's just riding up there.

It's going to take a while to drop down to 4 or 5 where it should be. And so when you perform for weeks on end, and it's exciting, even days off where it's like, oh, what town are we going to now? Let's get in the van, go to the pilot. You know, that's an exciting day. Yeah. Now some of those like six-plus-hour rides to do before a show that's not exciting no but let's see here oh yeah so your hedonic norm gets bumped up and it just takes a while to fall

so when you get off the road now the rug has been pulled out from underneath you you got you got no pulled out from underneath you, you got no serotonin because your drug is pulled out and gone. And he compared it very much to a heroin withdrawal. Obviously not as difficult. Well, I wouldn't know. Well, we'll find out in two months while our gigs are gone. We'll see how real this fuck is. We're going to see how low that care can go.

And we'll also see. But,'re gonna see how low that care go and we'll also see yeah but you know it's like it's i agree man this is why we have dip days uh is the dip day exactly what it sounds like yeah so like when you get off the road and your first oh yeah okay we call that the deficit the deficit it's a little more ominous than the dip day yeah it's just uh you know that's why we're so sad because we're expecting this nine serotonin level and you you push the exhaustion the emotional bankruptcy you just push it down there yeah and that's where rev comes in handy like rev has to deal with that and then when you get off the road, Matt Rieger comes out. So is Rev your alter ego?

Oh, I have several. Okay, so this goes back to why you've been called Rev. Yeah. Well, we can. Did we cover our previous topic well enough? Yeah, we did. Cool. But we have plenty more to go all right

but are you good you guys yeah i'm good i love some more uh champagne uh i just have la croix vodka but uh it's quarantine hard times corn yeah uh um i got a quarantine up up at the hill with lincoln and maggie it's a good team oh dude well that's a quarantine this is a quarantine right here. It doesn't have to have emergency. I got some. You want some of that? I never really liked that stuff.

I've been putting it in my tea. It's gross. Yeah, it's funky. I don't know. Yeah. But somehow I like Diet Coke. That doesn't make any sense. It seems like...

You like what you like. You like what you like. So going back to this Rev thing. Oh, yeah. So tell me, when did you finally accept the role? Oh, there was a, you know what? It was like, it was the first week of December in 2016 was when it became a full-time name.

We're still in the same timeline. Yeah, oh, we got this. So it was a festival nickname exclusively um at high sierra that was just what people called me rev there and nowhere else except for this one dude in san francisco and then cameron who we mentioned earlier uh he played the mandolin and the little smokies was a founding member um his his girlfriend xanthi a friend of mine from High Sierra, recognized a picture of me and says, oh, that's Rev. And Cameron came up to me and said, hey, do people call you Rev?

And I explained more briefly what I explained to you earlier. Are you Matt in Little Smokies? Well, see, there's Matt Cornetti, also known as Mark Cornice, also known as Dr. Julian Tariso. We all have a few names. Just by what type of personality you're in that day? Yep. Some are more flattering than others.

It is. It's always based in camaraderie and laughing about the things that are hard to laugh about. Such as the deficit, the dip day, what we're talking about. Those days on the road when you just don't want to do it. I know. I was hanging out somewhere with Lincoln, Andrew Lincoln from Green Skies,

talking with him about, he's like, are you doing okay? It's like, yeah, I just don't want to be here right now. And I think most musicians can identify with that. There's no reason for it. You just don't want to do it. And so those nicknames come out of those times, some of those hard to laugh at times. Yeah.

You ever almost break up i don't think you ever like just fought try to fight your band uh there have been thankfully uh no physical altercations thus far it's around 1500 days without any physical altercations. That's pretty good, man. But where are we at now? Oh, yeah. I think also, if you haven't had a tense moment with your bandmates that was probably totally avoidable, I'm also calling bullshit. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Over something that isn't that important. Yeah. Yeah. Because when you get to that low that serotonin like where you're still on the road but you're just done with serotonin and happiness and optimism yeah again you know what i'm talking about all the touring folks out there and probably most people yeah it happens poor people at the end of the day it doesn matter. When you put six people who can't fuck in a fucking metal tube.

Yep. And just say, all right, good luck. Yep. And let me tell you, I cleaned out the van recently. I found three chicken bones. Ugh. Ugh. I would fucking, I would scream.

We didn't even talk about your band at all. No. And I can't wait for that conversation. Yeah, man. To be continued with the rest. It's the greatest blessing that I got. is it that band why well man they are the army with which we you know you fight the battle with the army you have yeah and that's what they are we're all we are We are together, unified 99% of the time, and chasing the same dream together. And that's just like a romantic relationship would be, too.

You're chasing this dream of happiness and peace and comfort. And they are the army that I fight that battle with. What do you want to be remembered by, Rev? I hope that people can see that I'm grateful for everyone that comes out to the shows, everyone that helps put on the shows. Everyone who's been a part of my life has helped me be who I am today.

And so I hope that they can see gratitude. Do you see gratitude? I'm a hypercritical man. And I sometimes feel like I'm not grateful enough. But I do think I think I'm doing my very best at it. What are you not grateful for?

Well, I think just like many of us, I was not grateful for chips and salsa in the green room. Yeah. Until like... And pilot coffee. Yeah. Yeah.

I wasn't grateful for... I mean, I was, but not grateful enough for so many things that I just did every day. I'm glad you talked to me. Glad I was able to. Glad you talked to me. I know, I got nervous. Because I'm glad you talked to me. Glad I was able to. I got nervous. Because I really wanted to talk to you. I feel like there's a special kindred spirit. I love your guys.

I love Jake. I talk to Jake a bunch. Yeah. I relate with you. Yeah, same. Because we're in a way the same person. Yeah. Because we love the idea of a traveling salesman we're like a harold hill

which music man uh you know what i've not seen the music band i love it's one of my favorite plays i went and saw lion king on on broadway when we were in new york yeah and really yeah that's cool of you man as as as cliche as it is to go see like the most i i would assume it's one of the if not the most the one of the most popular musicals in in the world right yeah it's beautiful but i andy and i miked this bottle of acid and uh and went to see the lion king on acid well no i we so we i tried to make micro doses but they weren't incredibly micro. They're strong. And we found it out that night when we had an off night in New York.

So I took two of these micros, quote unquote micros, and shit got a little real in the theater. Like what happened? Well, all of a sudden I realized that we're in for a ride here. This is not a micro. Hold on. How long did it take until it hit you? Was that when you sat down?

Once the play starts and Gal comes out and is just like, No, I'm not letting you. In this incredible costume. Was Andy feeling the same way? No, Andy did not go. I went by myself. Oh, my God. You took acid by yourself?

Yeah. Well, you know what they say about doing drugs by yourself? What? It's awesome. It's awesome. This quarantine, I haven't done mushrooms in a week and a half. Yeah. Is that a regular activity for you?

I mean, on tour, I'm doing mushrooms maybe five days a week. Okay, nice. I like it. I did that as a big part of my development as a person. It really helped me, opened me up to bey frasco not andy frasco the entertainer sure yeah which is is hard um some two different people yeah you are too well and that's why i'm so grateful for rev because rev's this like thing you can put all your shit on yeah like we were talking about the dip day and the deficit. Matt has to deal with that.

Matt doesn't. Matt doesn't deal with that? Matt Rieger puts on some sweats and hides out in the van. I love it. Matt gets in the van in the morning. Rev gets out of the van. And Matt just kicks it. And then when Rev needs a break, Matt Rieger comes out.

Have you brought Rev into the van? Oh, yeah. Well, so I guess you could argue that Rev's everywhere and Matt Rieger is everywhere. No, no, but like just like partied for two days, three days straight, brought that shit into the van when everyone's hungover, and you're still like, woo, let's fucking go.

You know what I would love to hear is that same question asked of my group yeah there are times when i have to curb my enthusiasm in the morning uh you know i get a little excited all right yeah and like you know fortunately i have uh i've i don't play through much anymore. Yeah, we're getting older. We're getting to that point where, because very little that great happens after 4 o'clock in the morning outside of a hotel room or a tent. Yeah, exactly. You can usually pass on that.

Yeah. And then furthermore, once that sun comes up, nah. Well, that's when you start not appreciating it because then you're back to real life a little bit and you're still fucked up. And then once it's time to show time, your dopamine level's fucked. And then you feel fucking shitty.

Yeah. And then you keep partying, you keep drinking just to suppress the shittiness. And that's when you start fucking spiraling into like, taking all this shit for granted. Yeah. I think I had, we had, 18 was quite the year. Yeah.

Yeah. Especially the end of the year. We went after, we got after it. Well, support tours are are interesting we were support for green sky bluegrass in the fall of 18 and uh they're expensive a lot of people don't really think about that and you get fucked up and yeah you get you get after it in 45 minutes yeah you play your 45 but you gotta hang out yeah because you know you got merch also you might do sit-ins

like you're you're in this yeah you can't leave plus you don't want to because it's a good time yeah but like you know

sometimes you're not feeling it and like when that's the great thing about headlining it's like you're on stage the whole time so like

when you're not on stage you're gonna fucking party like I did that with i'm free i mean i've been open i bet you that's quite the scene they're open for i'm freeze oh it's just fucking you know it's like it's just like i'm a social person yep so right when i get off stage i'm promoting let's get fucked up i'm gonna be here take me to your bar you know well also that's your brand too yeah is the life life of the party that's what you have cultivated and someone who's

the energy and emotional leader of the area they're in and so most performers do that and I think the best performers are able to be consistent with their brand and represent what they are basically all the time.

Like turning a flip, turning a switch, like Rev from Maddie to Revy. Yeah. You see, but then when you start to get to know these people who come out and spend so much money and so much time coming to your shows, again, something that I'm so grateful for and certainly have taken for granted from time to time.

Me too. Yeah, these people become your family really quickly. Yeah, I know. And so when that does happen, I try to move to a world where they do know Matt Rieger. Because once we get to be good friends, I let down Rev a little bit. Yeah. Do you think you'd ever quit this? Man, I hope not.

But if I did, I think it would come about naturally and be something that was probably healthy. What would it take to quit? I don't want to self-sabotage this beautiful thing you have right now, but what? Well, there's no virus on this earth that can make me stop yeah chasing that there's i mean obviously we're you know we're making adjustments in a non pandemic state we're always uh overcoming adversity to do what what we do just like everyone else trying to do what they they want to do like there's no difference there we're all just trying yeah our best to get what we want um and let's see where were we at oh point is uh man have you watched the david crosby documentary remember my name or something oh where it gets all fucked up and hurt man i watched that on the plane that's not advisable because it was ugly crying and then like laughing out loud and well, not advisable.

You know, laughing out loud and crying is a beautiful part of life. But if you want your makeup to smear, watch that movie. What did you learn from that movie? learned from that movie uh that everyone will have their shortcomings in life but you you have to do your very best to care for the people around you because they're all you're gonna have in the at the end of and at the end of your life we'll say it how it is like he's looking back now and his his movie i don't know that it was intended to be this but was a reminder to be good to the people around you because they're all you're gonna have left at some point but he said it well someone said the interviewer probably camera crow said to him if you had to choose between a longer life and a life without music,

and I'm paraphrasing, what would you choose? And he says, me, without music, and then points his fingers to his head and imitates a gun shooting. He's like, I'm out. No. So the answer to that question, what would it take for you to quit something entirely unforeseen or death is the answer there.

Are you scared to die? No. I don't want to. Of course not. I am thrilled to get up every morning and I'm grateful for that. Thanks for being on the show, Rick. Thanks for having me. I love you, buddy.

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