Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 8: Mike Dillon (Les Claypool, Dean Ween Group, Critters Buggin)

Episode Date: May 22, 2018

Friend of the show, Caleb Hawley kicks our heart right in the groin as we feature his new song: We All Have Problems. And you know what else we got? The man, the myth, the punk percussion legend: MIKE DILLON on the interview hour. Yeti makes good on his promise to dig deep into the Fro's SOUL. Lastly, we check in with our very own, Arno Bakker in a new segment: "Staying Relevant W/ Arno Bakker." This is Episode 8.  To keep up with the podcast, follow us on Instagram @WorldSavingPodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, tour dates, the band and the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com For more information on our guest, Mike Dillon, visit: www.mikedillonvibes.com Produced by Andy Frasco Yeti Chris Lorentz Engineered by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Caleb Hawley Arno Bakker Shawn Eckels & Andee Avila

Hey guys, this is Andy. I'd like to start the show this week with a song off of Caleb Hawley's new record. I am actually featured in it. The song's called We All Have Problems. You can find the record everywhere as it's being streamed. And yeah, I hope you enjoy it

and hope you enjoy the show. Caleb Hawley, enjoy. We all got problems We all got pain, we all got pain We all need lots and lots of pills cause we are insane Temporal speed, drugs are what we need We all got problems, we all got pain We all got pain.

Elvis and Mr. Jackson were a couple of kings. With fame and fortune falling at their feet. But Jackson took injections and Presley popped them in. And their problems got the better of them We all got problems We all got pain We all need lots and lots of pills Cause we all insane Tell them wrong to speed

Drugs are what we need We all got problems We all got problems We all got pain When I was just a kid My daddy took me to the doctor When I told him I was feeling sad The doctor said I had some issues Diagnosed me with Tourette's

Then sent me back to school with a bottle of Percocet But it made me happy And it made me proud I was glad to know that I fit in with the bucked up crowd I went to school and told my friends They said congratulations Join my gang man Show the world what's up

We all got problems We all got pain We all need lots and lots of pills Cause we all insane Demerol or speed Drugs are what we need And lots of pills Cause we all got pain Debra on the speed Drugs are what we need We all got problems We all got pain

We all got problems We all got pain We all need lots and lots of pills Cause we all got pain We all got pain Debra on the speed We all need lots and lots of pills cause we all feel the same Tell the wrong to speed Drugs are what we need We all got problems

We all got pain We all got problems We all got pain We all got problems We all got problems We all got pain Ain't it a shame Yes, the wait is over. We're here and we are... we're going to talk today.

What? I'm going to draw some stuff out from you today. What happened? No, I'm not talking a bad way. I'm just going to, I'm not asking questions. Uh-oh. You said in episode one, like, I want you to get into my scrote. Yeah.

And I don't know if I'm going to get into your screw, but yeah. You interviewed. Yeah, I've been interviewing everyone. Is this my interview now? Yeah. No, no, no. But what's this interview that you interviewed, Mike Dillon. Mikey.

That we're going to talk about today. But you guys got into it. This guy's 52. He's been, I mean, he played South by Southwest one. Yeah. Like that was in 89. Because they just, South by Southwest is 29 this year, I think. Oh, really? Yeah. So, I mean, it's 30 years. This is a guy. So you guys talk about that and we'll get to that, but he talks about some, you guys talk about some heavy stuff and it's in a, it's, but it's a light conversation and that's what you and I met, um, a few months

ago and we've gotten to know each other. You said, I'm just at this point where I don't want to do something for the point of propelling my career. I want to do something because it's what I want to be doing and it's in the reasons that I'm doing it. Andy, you've been doing this for 10 years. What does that negate what you've done so far? Have you done that? Have you done something for your career that you felt like, man, I wish I wouldn't have done that. I just did that to get

here. I didn't do that. Cause it's really what I wanted to do. Um, I mean, there's probably a bunch of moments, you know, it's like sometimes you have to play a show, like even if it's like a corporate show where like you're pulling teeth to get these people

to jump around but you know there's someone important in the show that you have to wake these people up. You know, it's like sometimes

you have to pull some, you know, like comedians say like quick laughs. You know, just like going to autopilot. like comedians say, quick laughs. Just like going to autopilot. Low-hanging fruit. Yeah, exactly. Grab the low-hanging fruit.

That doesn't help me get the show that I want to give out because I'm basically going into autopilot, but sometimes you just have to do what you got to do to get to where you need to be. I know. Get where you got to do to. What's the, you have a goal, and we talked about that,

you have this goal of whatever it is, your big hairy audacious goals, your small goals and everything like that, but when you have goals, setting goals and everything like that, it becomes crystal clear on how you, you know, everything you do affects that. Right. So if it's like, is this going to get me to my goal? Yes. Is this going to give me no then, and it makes decision-making a little bit easier. But what's that pro talk about? What's that process to, I mean, you spent 10 years kind of honing to and getting to the point where you are now. What was the first, what was the first time in your career you were like,

I'm not doing that again? Um, or a time I was, uh, I think it was when I stopped doing cocaine. Really? Yeah. I was doing, I was doing, I was doing cocaine and,. And I'd be playing shows. But you've never done cocaine, so you don't know. Yes, I have. You have? One time. One time. I'm all, yes, I have.

Sweet, precious angel child. No, it's, yeah. Basically, I was doing cocaine before shows just because I was tired. And you get a bump all the way through. Yeah, it was crazy. There was a point three years ago where I would take ecstasy just to wake up. Oh my God.

At 10 a.m. because I was so strung out and tired. I knew I had to perform at 4 p.m. set at a festival the next day, but I stayed up till 5 a.m. So I'd get three hours of sleep and then I'd take an ecstasy so I could keep that smile on my face.

So just for base level function, you found yourself resorting to chemicals. Yeah. And then three years ago, you were like, I can't do this anymore. Not even three years ago, you were like, I can't do this anymore. Not even three years ago. This happened this year.

This is the first year that I've been pretty clean on drugs. Right. I'm not saying I'm a bad, bad drug addict. I was just taking social drugs. Weed, ecstasy, cocaine, MDMA. Your life is social. When you say that, I was taking social drugs, but everything you do is social.

Maybe I am a drug addict. I don't think so. If you're a drug addict, then you're a drug addict. I struggle with that, the label addict. I've been labeled at different times different types of addict. Because I have a personality that clings to things.

They call it an addictive personality. And so you and I kind of latched onto each other really quick because we're these gregarious, upfront people who also don't mind taking a back seat because life in the spotlight is taxing. I have no idea what it's like to be in the life in the spotlight on your life. But, you know, I come home from a festival

and I'm just like, I don't want to talk to anybody for a while. But you do this day in and day out. Like this is, I mean, 250 shows. I mean, that's 300 days a year. Yeah, it's hard, man. I was doing it for the party instead of doing it for the music and then it switched when it's this year yeah and you you guys got in it you got in the studio we got in the studio i

just know it was it was it was a moment where i was um we were doing show after show i think it was like the 81st show in 100 days like just non-stop in this tour like it was like a four month tour wow And I was just going to autopilot. And when you're in the jam scene and you go into the autopilot, you're going to hear it from your fans because they want to hear a new set. Right. Because these people have been to your show. They've been to our shows. It would be coming out. I mean, I'm doing this for 10 years now. So some of these guys have seen 20 of my shows now or you know or 30 of my shows right in a 10 year period

because we come we used to play in markets three times a year right so if you don't bring a new set you're gonna be start getting categorized as a one trick pony and i started getting those a lot more like oh he's just gonna do the same set again and i had to and i'm like it was entertaining but it wasn't it wasn't new it was entertaining to take a step. And it was entertaining, but it wasn't new. It was entertaining to new fans. Yeah, yeah. You know, but it wasn't fresh for me.

And it was just because I was on autopilot and, you know, when you're on cocaine or when you're on ecstasy, you know, your stimulation is just like a quick response thing.

Like, I wasn't even in the moment when I was on Coke during shows. I would just be grinding my teeth and getting through the show. Crowdsurfing, you know. Doing the things you know that would get them involved,

but you weren't. I wasn't there. You weren't getting them to buy in. No, I wasn't there. You know, I was so focused on just getting through the show and not being part of the show. But Andy, I have to ask the question,

why change it? It was working. Because I realized that that's just going to help me for the beginning. Just a temporary thing. Yeah, it's a temporary thing. I'm trying to make this my life's work. And if my life's work's gonna be me just taking drugs

and fucking this opportunity up, then I'm not taking full advantage of the gift that the universe gave me, you know? Or of me being, you know, me wounding up a crowd and me getting people involved, you know, it's like, I'm just wasting away that gifts. It's, it's kind of like, um, I grew up, I grew up in Christianity and, um, and we've talked about this before, but I always, there was this, this, a lot of people would know about this thing that Jesus said is called the parable of a talent.

Parable is just like an, it's an analogy, right? It's, it's, it's a story. And this whole thing talks about, and Hey, for those of you falling along with home, this is a little heavier hitting than you're used to, but we haven't followed up on what we said we would do in episode one. So that's where we're like, Hey, it's time, you know, no more dick jokes. Well, no, that'll happen. Believe me. Parable of talents. Long story short on it is that it's talking about the like, just think of like a talent.

Well, in this term, a talent is like an object. But it's the same thing. Whatever you're good at or whatever you're excelling at. And are you wasting it or are you bringing good of it through it? And I think it sounds like that's where you got to this point where you said, I can do this and it's base and people do okay. But at the same time, why don't I just do it really, really well? Yeah, it's really important.

You only get a few days on this earth. If you're not going to do something well, don't do it. If you're not going to do something well don't do it you know if you're not going to give it your full effort you're not going to give it your 150 don't do it because life is too short to half-ass things yeah it goes with being a family man being a lover you know it's like doing your occupation whatever it is you to give it, you have to give it it all. It's full attention. A few months, go back a few months. When you were, you're like,

you got to the point where like, I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm not, I can't do drugs to just basically get through. What was that? Was it like, suddenly you woke up one day and you're like, I can't do this anymore? Or was this a process and you just realized? Well, it it wasn't waking up i was awake for four days straight oh fuck tell me about this so i was in germany and we've been tagged mr human cocaine i me like on the

newspapers like like the germans don't have like really sensors in their media so they can say whatever they want so like they weren't saying like oh i'm a media so they can say whatever they want so like they weren't saying like oh i'm a drug addict they're just saying i'm really hyper right but people take that in context like oh this guy does a shit ton of coke right and um i was basically um walking down the street and i saw these german folk came oh mr frasco i love your show blah blah blah i heard mr human cocaine hey you want to do something like uh yeah sure i'll do something yeah i'll take Folk came, oh, Mr. Frasco, I love your show, blah, blah, blah. I heard you're Mr. Human Cocaine. Hey, you want to do something? I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll do something.

Yeah, I'll take a bump. Yeah, so we go into a bathroom, and it looked a little more crystal-y than I thought. And I did two lines on a toilet, and I right instantly, I'm like, whoa, it would burn, burn, burn my nostrils, and I'm like, whoa, this isn't would burn, burn, burn my nostrils. And like, whoa, this, this isn't cocaine. It was meth.

Oh, shit. I did two lines of meth. Snorted meth. Had you ever done meth before? I've never done meth in my life. God. And it scared the shit out of me. Right.

I was up for two days, horny, like grinding my teeth. I remember I woke up. Like grinding my teeth. I remember I woke up. I was trying to beat off in a hotel lobby because that's the only place I could find internet to look at porn. And my dick was not working. And I was just like sweating and just like trying to get off. Like, you know, have you ever masturbated with a flaccid penis?

Like where it's like, you know, it's like you're just trying to get the job done. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I finally came in this fucking hotel lobby bathroom. I'm almost eating the microphone here, by the way. Like this is, my mouth is literally around the entire mic. And I woke up and I'm, you know, after you come, you wake up from like, what happened? And I'm looking at myself in the mirror and I'm sweating.

And I'm just like, what are you fucking doing, dude? You're wasting this opportunity. You're in Germany. You're from Calabasas. Yeah, I'm like, I'm wasting this opportunity. I'm from West Hills. Shout out West Hills. i'm wasting this opportunity i'm from west hills shout out west hills all right i'm in i'm in this opportunity um i have this opportunity i'm in germany

and here i am still hung over on meth that i didn't even want in the first place like i you know i'm i'm not in i wasn't into drugs my life younger i wasn't like when i was a kid that wasn't into drugs my life, younger. I wasn't, like when I was a kid. That didn't represent your teenagers. I was a basketball player. I was a swimmer. You were a baller? I was a baller, dude. Dude, I was a baller. I was 6'1 by fifth grade.

Oh, shit. So I was a center, and then once everyone got taller than me, I fucked up, didn't do a jump shot. But I was really realizing that my prerogative wasn't about the music anymore. It was about the party. And I looked myself in the mirror like,

you're going to die if you keep this shit up. You're staring at 30. At that time, you weren't 30 yet. You were staring at 30 and you're staring at 30 and you're like, I had an existential crisis. Yeah. I had a panic attack and you know, it's like, I don't know how people do math every day.

They just have to keep, keep doing it. I think stay on it. Right. You stay on it. I was, I just did two lines and I was up for two fucking days. Crazy.

I remember I was in berlin and i'm like it was six in the morning and i'm just walking in circles on the street like little circles not like around the block no just like panting panting yeah it's like it was crazy i mean that's what this thing with mike dylan i mean he's not glorifying heroin he was a heroin addict right and this conversation like we were we made it light but this is some serious shit like we were he was addicted to heroin he spent all the record label money to find heroin and then he spent time paying the record label back when everything imploded because he was a heroin addict yeah and he talks about it yeah he's like and he's not glorifying heroin he's he's basically letting people know like and that was before heroin like they started

putting shit in heroin right because he's like this is the 80s like the 70s and 80s everybody was doing heroin but heroin was like super clean i mean it was straight just straight up 90s too was pretty good heroin coming over but and and coming from outside of the US, that's just where it came from. And he says, like, it's not like today. And he says, and he got to the point where he realized he had to clean up because the game was changing

and he couldn't play that game anymore. Yeah. Because he had friends dying. Yeah. And it's serious. The opioid epidemic is out of control in this country. What do you think it's from?

Pills? It's pills. What, like Percocets and shit? I mean, everything. How often does that fame thing become an addiction? How often does the limelight become an addiction? Yes. Addicted to fame, too.

Addicted to... Being accepted? Yeah, accepted. Notifications on your phone. You're looking at it right now. And it's one of those things. We just were in such a... I want to say a desperate state to connect or to be around people

or to feel something. We do anything. I think that's what Mike talks about here is that just you're looking to fill it up, everything. And he talks about a long career. He kind of gives us a little play-by-play from South by Southwest one in the late 80s. To playing with Primus and living in New Orleans.

Right. And now he's in Kansas City now, right? He lives halfway in Kansas City, halfway in New Orleans. Oh, that's right. So should we show people? I mean, it's pretty heavy shit. Yeah. I mean, listen to this.

And honestly, email us if you have questions. And I don't want it to turn into, like, I mean, email us if you have questions. And I don't want it to turn into like something like, hey, if you have an addiction problem, reach out. Because that's not us. We're not qualified for that. But I think at the same time, like. We're here to listen. We're here to listen. And I think, I mean, you listen and hearing people's stories.

I mean, I heard of this thing. We'll get to Mike's interview because it's amazing. But I heard this thing quite a few years ago. It's called giving the gift of going second. And so it's just like when you open up and make yourself vulnerable and share, suddenly it gives other people in the room or whoever are listening or with that connection,

they're like, oh, I've gone through stuff like that too or I've felt that. And suddenly they don't feel so. Because I mean, what's the what's the the most polarizing thing about addiction is that it's polarizing yeah right you think you're alone you think you're the only one and uh that's why aa came around that's why you know all of the a's came around you know narcotics sexaholics alcoholics all this because it was like listen if if you just realize that there's people that are going through the exact same thing

you're going to be at a better place. That being said, what happens when you're in a different town every day? You try to build a career in rock and roll. Mike Dillon talks about it. With that being said, check out Mikey, Mike Dillon, New Orleans. If you don't know anything about Mike Dillon, Mike Dillon's played with everyone. He's been a huge scene. He was in a band called Billy Goat that was taking over,

got signed to Hollywood Records, started getting addicted to heroin and had to just step it up and change his life. And now he's in New Orleans, kicking ass, playing with every amazing musician from Primus to Galactic to,

you know, he was on Jam Cruise one he was on South by Southwest one he's he's one of the best percussion vibraphone players out there and his story is just amazing and I really hope you enjoy this one I really love talking to him. I got playing I got pissed off took a bottle of water and just chunked it at the the fan? The ceiling fan over the stage and glass, whatever. Went all… And then another time threw water up on stage and it destroyed… You know, we had an old Ensoniq.

Shit like that. Just crazy annex. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're here. Kansas City. That's right. Kicking it at the Greenwood Social Hall. I'd never think I'd be interviewing you in Kansas City, Mikey. Yeah, I'd never think you'd be interviewing me here either, Andy. We are here with Mike Dillon.

The man, the myth, the legend. He's been everywhere. You've been in so many bands. You've been in the New Orleans scene. I feel like every musician has played with you. It feels like. Not every musician but…

All the good ones. I played with a lot of them. I just like being punk rock. Fucking crazy. So those were some of the antics that got me thrown out of that band. But for Billy Goat… But then we started Billy Goat. It was just all this crazy energy.

And the funny thing is Chamberlain was the first drummer, the guitar player from the New Bohemians. It was called Billy Goat and the Power Chicks. And it just like- How many piece band? It was a joke band. It was like, at first like 14. Then we like cut it down to like five

and just toured nonstop. We got your old booking agent, Scott Weiss at Atomic. What? I got to say Scott Weiss. I was with Scott Weiss at Atomic. What? I got to say, Scott Weiss, I was with Scott Weiss before The Reverend was. What? So he get punk rock. I mean,

you know, Weiss fucking like, he wanted to fuck my girlfriend. Yeah. Even though he's married, but, and we'd go in the office, he'd just be leering at her

like the dirty old bastard he was. But wasn't your girlfriend in your band? Yeah, she was in the band. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, that's what I thought.

You know, and... How was that? Living with your chick and being in a business relationship with her? Like, you never had a time off with her. It was crazy. And that was my heroin partner. Oh, she was doing heroin with you. Yeah.

And so summer of 91, we shot it for the first time. Then we went to New York for the summer. And we didn't do heroin at all. We got signed. And then we got back to Dallas. And we started shooting it every day. Jerry Harrison from Talking Heads produced our record.

He was coming and hanging with us. Were you still writing good songs? Well, I mean, you know, I don't know if they were good or not. You know, I listened to the record for the first time the other day. And there was a couple songs on there I thought was really cool. Still, you know. Still cool. Still relevant. Still cool. So anyway, you know,

that band was pretty crazy. I've heard some crazy things about this band. Well, we're going to get into that. We're going to get into that. I can't wait. We made the record. I actually kicked for the first time when we went to Austin, we recorded at Willie Nelson's studio.

So I remember getting up and we're staying at this, you know, Weiss put us in this fucking crazy fleabag hotel, but we all had our own rooms. I kicked. Start feeling good, you know, going to get my smoothies and shit. And, you know,

we're making the record. We're recording with, you know, the guy, that same guy, what was, he did like Sublime's, engineer Sublime's record.

This guy named Stuart, Jerry, and this other engineer and Jerry Harris. We're talking heads. Everything's going great. Well, our tour manager

got sent by two of the guys up to Dallas to score some Coke and some heroin. Oh shit. And I didn't know about it. Here's how I found out about it. Was the whole band doing heroin? Pretty much, except for the drummer, my buddy Earl and the guitar player.

So, but we had all been like, we're cleaning up to make the records. We cleaned up. So all of a sudden I get a fucking call, Jonathan're cleaning up to make the records. We cleaned up. So all of a sudden, I get a fucking call. Jonathan's in jail, our tour manager. He had gotten popped up in Round Rock. That's no joke in Texas, huh? No, it isn't. That was back when you got popped.

They threw your ass in jail and they confiscated your van. They didn't give a fuck. If you had drugs, they confiscated your shit. Even weed? Yeah, even weed. This was like, you know, Texas,

90, yeah, this was 91. Wow. Winter, December of 91. So, my uncle,

who just got through stepping down from being the athletic director at the University of Texas, you know, my family's connected that side, you know.

It's crazy. He's a great guy. So, my mom gives him my uncle's number and he's like i think about 91 he had a fucking cell phone so i call and he's driving to go deer hunting or whatever i was like hey uncle mike it's mike you know uh our tour manager got in trouble he got caught with drugs i don't think i told anyone his heroin but and he's in jail and the van's been impounded so he goes okay well let me make a few calls for you. So he made a call, got my number word. I get a call at the fucking, you know, heroin and crack roach bait hotel on fucking South Congress street.

And, uh, I hear this voice. Hello. Uh, it's Mike Dillon there. Uh, yes, sir. I don't know who you are son but you disturbed the powers that be i was like yes sir now what happened i told him he's like all right what's his name got the fucking you know license plate of the van all the shit he goes all right the voice it was this lawyer you know my uncle called this badass fucking you know criminal defense lawyer guy who says, I don't know who you are, son, but you disturbed the powers that be this morning. It was literally like six in the morning. Was he a good old boy, Texas boy? Good old Texas boy.

He was like a fucking, you know. So about noon somehow, I don't know how we got out. I guess we had a rental car or something. I don't even remember. But we go out to the police, the Austin police imp't know how we got out. I guess we had a rental car or something. I don't even remember. But we go out to the police, the Austin police impound. They release our van. By that time, Scott Weiss and our other manager, Charlie Hewitt, were there at me. And this is when they found out the whole fucking band's on dope.

And they're just fucking sitting there going, what the fuck is going on with you guys? You know, y'all making a record. You got a record deal. And you're fucking fucking sitting there going, what the fuck is going on with you guys? You know, y'all making a record. You got a record deal. And you're fucking all on dope. And Scott Weiss looks at me and goes, at least wait until you're famous to fucking OD, you cocksucker. So your catalog's worth something. He's always thinking about the money.

Yeah, making the money. Yeah, making the money. So, dude, our van was released to us, which is a major miracle. And that tour manager, so dude, our van was released to us, which is a major miracle. And that tour manager, great guy, he had to pay money, but he didn't do, he had like a gram of dope and like a fucking eight ball of coke.

He didn't do a day. He just did probation or whatever. It was all because of that lawyer. How much did you have to pay the lawyer? Oh, I don't know. He paid him forever. He quit pretty much right after that. No, I think, no, he stayed with us.

He stayed on. He stayed on with you? He stayed on for another six months, bless his soul. And ironically, I was living on Eastside in Dallas, Texas, 4917 East Side Drive. That was in the barrio, East Texas. Now, the good thing about being a heroin addict and living in East Dallas is there was our house, then there was a Daniel's Supermarcado,

and then there was the apartment complex where all the dope was sold. So I had went from like not having a connection to like being the guy who like people would come over to my house, give me money. Cause you know, it's one of those places when you walked in,

you know, the guys pulled the gun out, put it in front of you. Yeah. Barrel facing you. Yeah. You gave me your money. No bullshit.

It was real gang, Eastside Locos, you know. Yeah. Cartel shit. You know, of course we didnster shit. No bullshit. It was real gang. Eastside Locos, you know? Yeah. Cartel shit. Of course, we didn't know what cartel was back then. So that was like, we got back. We finished the record.

Mixed it out in California. Were you fucked up? Were you doped up for the record? No, no, no. I stayed clean. When we got back to Dallas to do vocals, of course, I fucking wouldn't score. About half the record, I listen to it now. I'm like, oh, wow.

I sound like I'm on heroin. Yeah. But then we wouldn't mix it out in california with jerry and i stayed clean for that it was great you know hearing the talking head stories that was when the talking heads were breaking up he was like well he was reading rolling stone he looked at me he goes well looks like the talking heads have broken up, you know, which is pretty fucking heavy. That is heavy. But so we got back, we stayed strung out and then the record came out and we toured. And that was pretty insane touring because that was really like,

like I had a band credit card. God bless Scott Weiss because we'd be like, all right, we had a gig like Mississippi Nights with this band called The Urge. And this, like fast forward, like, all right, we had a gig at Mississippi Nights with this band called The Urge. And this, fast forward, by this time, we'd already played South by Southwest for the second time,

packed the place out. You're striding. We're fucking killing it, man. We had all these fans that would bring all this industrial-sized things of mayonnaise and chocolate syrup. And the clubs would get destroyed.

It was like a gore show, just like do it yourself or whatever, you know? And- Wow. It was really fun. But the heroin thing was taking a toll. Earl was getting sick of it. He put in his notice.

So we hired this new drummer to do our tour. He put in his notice? What's that mean? Like he's like, I'm quitting. I'm quitting in a couple months. He's like, I'm quitting, you know? And you're like, dude, we got a record deal. We're about to get the big push.

So he did the last tour. We opened for the Dead Milkmen that summer. How big of rooms were you doing? Whatever size they were doing. Nice size places. Slims and those kind of places. And we would show up. We'd do our shit.

I would always clean up. We're on tour. If you played San Francisco, you're like, do some you know where to score in san francisco down the mission yeah and cop but you know it was even back then it was just tons of driving you know like yeah were you driving or did you have a driver no i wouldn't drive back then i remember one tour like okay so check this out this is a crazy ass story. Another Uncle Mike heroin story. Uncle Mikey. So Earl quit the band.

We got this new drummer in the band. We have gigs in Florida. August of 92. So I get a big fucking chunk of money from everyone. We're waiting on the record company advance from Western Union. Back in those days, you know, it'd be six o'clock. You're waiting on tour. Tour support.

Everything came out from Western Union. Fucking Western Union, you know? No way. Okay. So what I would do was, and tour support was also how, because we have like a month off. So I would pawn every one of my instruments

at Cash for America. We'd get the shit out. We needed to go back on tour. Get the shit out of the pond. Put it in the van. And then we'd pile our money. You'd pond it for drugs. For dope. For dope.

And then I would go over to where I told you about the apartment complex, get a big fucking wad of dope for everyone. And that time, bro, was really crazy. How much were you doing in a day? Oh, probably a couple hundred bucks a day. Not that much. Well, I don't know heroin talk. Well, your tolerance goes up. And we didn't have fentanyl back then, thank God,

or I'd be dead. Yeah. You know, I'm not trying to glamorize this shit. It was a different thing back then. Yeah. You know, it was- Yeah, seriously. Different game back then altogether.

Yeah, I bet. People still died. A lot of my friends are dead. Yeah. But I went to score and I came out and the cops right there and i always scored on my skateboard so i hot ass on my skateboard they're following me i go into the fucking supermercado and behind the oil i take out fucking like everybody's dope put it behind the motor oil and i grab some tortillas because all i had was like a dollar left and I buy some tortillas

and the cops are waiting for me. They're like, what are you doing? What were you doing over there, son? I'm like, oh, you know, I have friends. I live right over here,

4917. And they're like, all right, well, we know what you're doing. We saw you come out of the dope house, you know, blah, blah, blah.

So I went home, waited. Did they check you and shit? They didn't check me. They just said, we're watching you. We're watching you. Bro,

I came back 30 minutes, pulled the fucking Pennzoil fucking 10W40 back and $300 with the dope and coke was still right there. Took it back. We all got high. I woke up in Tallahassee, Florida

or something. Oh my god. Who's driving though? Our tour manager. Was he on heroin no no no not everyone was on heroin just me the bass player but how did the guys who were sober deal with you guys all fucked up on here i hated it broke the band up yeah i bet yeah you know it broke that version of the band up yeah they eventually all quit so we we get your wife still in the band at this point the wife stayed in the band the whole time. Wow.

Oh yeah, she married her. So I remember waking up in that McDonald's, going in, I still had some dope on me. So Kim and I went into the stall at McDonald's, stood on the toilet, shot up using toilet water- What? To fix up.

Holy shit. At the McDonald's? To fix up. Holy shit. At the McDonald's? At the McDonald's, bro. And then went out and ordered an Egg McMuffin. So how long does it last until it kicks in? I've never done heroin. Well, I mean, you know, at that point, we got a habit. You just get wealth and you're not like really that high unless you have a ton.

I mean, you know, at that, we probably had just enough to get well. And then I remember like we went and played the gig in Melbourne

and then we went down. We had a couple of days off. This was another thing a lot of bands did that I don't know if people from jam band world have talked to you about. No,

they don't. No one talks to me about drugs. Really at all? Marcus King, we had a nice little talk about. But he's like, nothing like this, Mike. So what we did was, another thing you had to do was FedEx your drugs to you. FedEx it? To each stop at the venues?

Yeah, because- You'd ship it to the venues? No, we'd ship it to our hotel. So we ran out of shit. Everyone's like, dope sick, and we got to play. So I call my bro back in Dallas. I've, you know, there's no PayPal. Your Western Union needs some money.

And then two days later, if he doesn't fucking rip you off, you get your dope and you get high again. So, and the way we do it, it's in our cassettes. You're in a band, put it in, you take the cassettes apart, put the stuff inside it, get together and come. So I remember Hurricane Andrew was about to blow into Florida. We get our dope and get well.

And then we like, same deal. We had to leave the state, wake up somewhere else. And by that time, I was starting to get really bad, like missing shows. Like we're, you know, have a sold out, the record's out, sold out shows. Oh, I get the bright idea. I'm going to Southwest it

back to Dallas today. This FedEx and shit ain't working. So I would go to the airport, buy a flight on the spot, you know, just jump on a plane. And this is money

from tour support. This is money from our manager's credit card. Fucking go to Dallas, end up in the barrio, go to the spot, cop, get high at my house,

and then fall out and miss my flight back. So like, a show was, that was the first time I missed a show. The show was canceled. The tour manager

had to pay him back for fucking the food, catering and everything. The hospitality. I get back, the band is just fucking pissed. I didn't even make it to St. Louis. I flew back to Springfield

to play the Regency. You know, we did like, and what's even more fucked up was there was this thing in Dallas where they were trying to get heroin addicts off street drugs. So I had a legal prescription

for morphine at that point. We got through the whole Dead Milkman tour because I had a prescription for codeine. We just ate codeine the whole time. This space is the same thing,'s the same thing but you know i had morphine hell the doctor would even call in needle prescription for me what about methadone well i didn't get on

methadone until 95 and that that worked it did its job so anyway that version of billy goat finally imploded with where after a day of playing the two nights at the Liberty Hall in Lawrence, eating Papa Kino's pizza and just downing morphine pills once I made it back. Guess what? Four days later, the morphine pills isn't enough. I catch a cab from Lawrence to MCI.

This is in August, August 28th. I fly back to Dallas, score a bunch of dope, make it back to play the Grand Emporium, this club in Kansas City. Would you fly with it? Yeah, I'd fly with it. You just put it in your fucking- Shoe or something. It wasn't like today.

There was no- Yeah. They didn't even look at your driver's license back then. Wow. Get back, made the show, but everyone was so pissed I left. They were like, we're done. And that was 92. That's when Billy Go broke?

That version of it. So what I did was I got back to Dallas, pawned everything. The record company put me in rehab. I lasted for about a week. Hollywood Records put you in rehab? Yep. They put me in rehab.

Got out, went and got high. Didn't like rehab. I cussed out the fucking, the counselor. got out, went and got high. Didn't like rehab. I cussed out the fucking, the, the counselor. Cause I took all my morphine with me to rehab. And they're like, and they found my rehab,

my morphine. I was like, I didn't come here to quit heroin. Morphine. I came here to quit heroin. They're like, fuck you, man.

You're, you're cleaning your sobriety. I had no clue. So you didn't think morphine was that bad I was just full of shit it didn't matter how old are you here I was like what was that 93 92 that was 92 so yeah I was coming up on being 27 oh wow yeah we started Billy going I was like 24. Damn, you're on heroin at 23? Yep. Pretty crazy.

So that was that shit. And then, you know, so moved up here, dude. And got the band back together, you know. Oh, so second gen Billy Goat was Kansas City based. Kim and I moved up here with our two dogs. I sold, like, I forget what I did. Oh, yeah, I called up the guy from the symphony at five in the morning. Cause I knew we had to get out of Dallas.

We were like staying all over town. We were just fucking, you know, the tour manager had been living on the first floor of his two story apartment house. He threw us out. We were homeless, fucking just like all kinds of crazy shit. I was writing Billy goat checks at those check cashing places all over the label still funding the band no at that point we got a

publishing deal so there was a little money but really what i was doing i was writing hot checks i was boosting which is you know you go in and you get and you find a receipt you steal it and then go in and uh just doing all kinds of insane shit that summer. It seemed like forever, but you know, you're 27. It was a month, a month of my life, robbing my friends of CDs and pond. I'm doing whatever I could to get dope.

It just didn't matter. Living on heroin. I was shooting speed balls by then. Just like getting high all the fucking time. It was just horrible. It's fucking insane. I had a marimba that I had pawned that was worth probably, that I bought with my publishing money

for 3,500 bucks, an old 60s marimba. So I called up the guy from the symphony and I said, hey man, I got this marimba I got to sell. He's like, all right, Mike, I'll buy it from you. But it's five in the fucking morning. Let me call you when I'm awake. So he calls me back. He takes me to the pawn shop.

He gets it out of pawn and gives me 400 bucks. For the $3,500? Yeah. But that 400 bucks saved our asses. We got Kim's timing belt on a little Le Mans fixed. And that thing got like 50 miles to the gallon. We got enough dope to get well. And we started driving that night.

We drove up here to Kansas City and crashed with a buddy who I'm still friends with. I recorded with him the other day. And we moved up here and I started mowing lawns. We kicked, we got clean. Did you like Kansas City? Yeah, I loved it, you know, because I love Lawrence. We had fans up here that just, you know, the bomb neck,

Brett Mosman, you know, this was like our second home. I heard a story about you over there. Yeah. So, like, I started mowing lawns, you know, arrest warrants start coming in, you know, hot,

because I was writing hot checks, you know. Luckily, our management, in Dallas, the management company covered everything, you know. Bless their hearts. They made the van payment, but I was writing hot checks, you know. Luckily our management- In Dallas. In Dallas, the management company covered everything. You know, bless their hearts. They made the van payment, but I was like,

I'm going to get a job, I'll pay the van payment, you know. Yeah. Everyone else said, fuck you, we're out of here. So I tried to make the van payments and finally they're like, dude, mowing lawns for 10 bucks an hour. You're never going to pay us back all the money. Yo, you got to reform the band. So I reformed Billy Goat because I owed

electric artists so much money. I owed them thousands of dollars. So I found a bunch of guys here. We were horrible. We had a good show. We had a good time. I remember being clean and starting to play music again. It felt so good. I mean, you know. Yeah. We were just hanging out.

We learned the songs. We got a set together. It's like you're relearning an instrument. Yeah,, you know. Yeah. We're just hanging out. We learned the songs. We got a set together. It's like you're like relearning an instrument. Yeah, it was great. You know, and just like everyone was fun. No one was hating each other. Because, you know, just all the bad shit of being in a band. The way it exploded.

Everyone was just super happy. We played three gigs. And I remember I got out of like, you know, paid three months van payment back to those guys. And, you know, we had three showdown shows. You finally get back on the up. The Blue Note, the Bottleneck, you know, pay three months van payment back to those guys. And, you know, we had three sold out shows. You're finally getting back on the up. The Blue Note, The Bottleneck, you know, The Hurricane. Everything.

Yeah, I think that's what we played. Everything was sold out. It was great. We're like, all right, cool. So we started touring again. And I lived up here in KC until that band imploded in 97. Now, you know, from that point on, of course I kept doing drugs, but it never was as bad as what happened. I didn't let it get that bad. I kept it under control. Yeah. I was doing drugs, but didn't miss it. I went from, you know, that last run, I missed

two, you know, a couple of gigs to like one or two gigs a year. Yeah. But we did 200 days a year. We just started touring, made this home base. We toured all the fucking time. So Billy Go was doing 200. Yeah. Second gen Billy Go was doing 200. Yeah, we just started. And the first band too,

we were touring nonstop. That's, you know, we did 200 dates a year. That's why it was so crazy. That's what you've always been doing. Always been doing that. Same here, man. Play a gig, you know,

on that first tour. I told you about our first West Coast tour. I remember we played a gig at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. And then we drove 38 hours straight back and played new year's eve at clearview in dallas and what's his name that dude uh tom morello he's a band called lockup they opened for us yeah yeah before pre-rage against the machine was he still a good guitar player they were sort of cheesy i thought cheesy and A little cheesy. And then Rage comes out

and they're fucking a whole other game, bro. But it's crazy. It is halftime at the Enni Fresco interview hour. Here's a quick message from the UN. Well, hello.

I am Arno Bakker and this is Staying Relevant with Arno Bakker. On today's segment we will be analyzing the lyrical structure of artists Cardi B and 21 Savages. The song by J. Cardi of her new record Invasion of Privacy. Shall we get started? Bitch, I am dripping. Oh, you trippin'. Told the waitress I ain't tippin'.

I like hot sauce on my chicken. Oh, God. I pulled the rubber off, and I put hot sauce on her titties. 21. I am in a Bentley truck. She keep on sucking like it is tinted. All these VVS's, n***a. My sperm worth millions.

Oh God. The bitch, so bad, I popped a molly for I hid it. So, apparently, there is a female dog present in a Bentley car. Could there be 21? There could be. I would think the car would be overcrowded. See you next week in Staying Relevant with Arno Bucker. So we always toured around,

you know, but this was a great place because you could go play Chicago for a weekend or go to Colorado. It's the middle. Ohio, Texas. That's why I moved here. And we toured nonstop.

But one of those first shows back in Lawrence to show you. What did you hear, Frasca? I heard you shat on stage. Yeah, fucking Mosman. I was literally sick. So, I was sick, man. And we're just feeling like shit.

We're up in that dressing room. And he brings up, for whatever reason, a couple of bottles of Jagermeister. So, we just started palling the Jagermeister. Were you drinking through this? I wasn't ever a big drinker, but, you know, some nights you just drink. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I got so shit-faced. Probably the only time I've ever blacked out on stage. But I just remember everybody take your clothes off because we got naked every night on stage. Yeah, you guys were getting naked. That's what I heard. We haven't talked about that. We've just been talking about the druggie stories.

Because you said you wanted the dirt. I wanted the dirt, Mike. I want all the dirt. This is going to be a good podcast for 10 people. We are… This is crazy shit, dude. You're still alive through all this shit. Yeah. So, I had been really sick.

So, we drank that fucking stuff. We're going on stage. I just remember like looking and just getting crazy. I don't know what happened. And all of a sudden, I guess I got the runs. And I'm butt naked. And shit just starts spraying out my ass runs and I'm butt naked and shit just starts spraying out my ass everywhere I'm like a fucking horse and fucking Kim is like going motherfucker

you know she would get Kim was awesome she was like the reason why Billy Goat was badass yeah what'd she play she played fucking big signs that she made she sang back and she danced like a bunny she was like a dancer man just fucking hype man dancer. Hype man. Just fucking hype man. She was pretty hype man. And she would throw things at the crowd. She was like, you know. Yeah, she was the...

We had a song called Chef Boyardee. She would throw Top Ramen over there. She'd throw Top Ramen at the crowd. She's great. She still is.

Yeah, I want to talk about your antics. But so, I started shitting everywhere and she's like, motherfucker, you're shitting. Quit.

So, so long So you know We leave On Monday I get a call from my manager So Mikey I got a call from He's a British guy I got a call from Brett Moseman

He said you shat on stage He's not very happy with you right now Were you selling this venue out though? Fuck yeah. Back in the day, people came to see me. Did they still do, Mikey? A few.

Everyone's dead now. Yeah. So Billy Goat kept doing crazy antics like that. Like what else? Give me one more antic you did. One more antic. Well, I don't know. I'll think of them as we come.

But our record on stage naked, we played in Cleveland. We had 39, like 30 something people naked on stage. And we would always go out and play after the nakedness and be covered in chocolate syrup. And then we'd put on our clothes

and we'd take the whole crowd out. Like before Ozum Motley, it wasn't nothing new, but we used to do that. We'd take them out and we'd have drum jams on the street after the club was closed and plays. And that night, I remember the cops in Cleveland showed up

and they're threatening to arrest us. And a lot of times that happened with the nudity. They would hear about it. And sometimes they wouldn't make it there that night, but then you'd go back the next time to the city. Like one time I went back to Oklahoma City and I'm like noticing these guys at Soundcheck. And they're fucking, I swear to God, Then you'd go back the next time to the city. Like one time I went back to Oklahoma City. And I'm like noticing these guys at Soundcheck.

And they're fucking, I swear to God, they're wearing like, you know. Polos. No, they're wearing Hawaiian shirts. You know, fucking cops are here, man. And sure enough, the owner of the club, hey, Mike, these gentlemen here want to talk to you. And we go back. And they're like, we're Oklahomalahoma city vice i'm like oh how y'all doing you know well we heard about your little antics the last time you played here and

they made me read like you know that happened in a lot of cities dude i've been getting that too now they've been playing my contracts they make you you know if you get naked again we'll arrest you and we really don't want to arrest you because we don't want to give your sorry ass the publicity that you'll get from getting arrested. But one of the times it said, they made me read the code and read it out loud. Like, you will not take your clothes off. You will not walk around in a state of turgidity.

What the fuck is turgidity? That's like walking around with your pants on with a boner. You can't have a boner. Yeah. Like, you can't have a boner. Like, all those kids in fifth grade getting boners in the second period. They're fucked.

Second period, you get arrested, bro. You got to squeak a chair. Why don't you get a new chair there, Mike? No, it's all right. Maybe it'll collapse. So, yeah,

that happened a lot with Billy Goats. You're getting that too now, huh? I'm getting that where they're putting this, they're giving me in my contracts. Every time I cuss, it's $250.

You're joking. It's fucked up, dude. What? Yeah. You can't cuss? I can't cuss. See, that's what I'm saying. This is what I want to get to.

We had a song called Fuck More, Bitch Less. Yes. Dude, it's crazy. Like, I don't think. Now, what venues are you making you not cuss? Soft ticket shows. What, like family shows or- Just like if we're playing at a park or stuff. I had to write a public apology letter

to the city of St. Augustine because the church was at my show and I did a live exorcism. Like, just did like a, you know, like started talking in tongues and i thought it'd be a funny bit but the church didn't like that and um i had to write a public apology letter and i just went at it i was like rock who's your manager is that a homeboy over there alex and those guys yeah schwartz 7s yeah alex used to be our run sound at the bottleneck. I bet he's got some crazy stories. Yeah, he's Kansas City.

He's Kansas City. Yeah, see, Brian books all the Dinosaur Junior. My manager, he has Dinosaur Junior and shit. He did the rock and roll stuff. I think Alex, well, he does Galactic and stuff. Alex does the jam bands.

Yeah, when you play those soft shows, yeah, of course you can't yeah i remember we would get that every now and then they would book billy goat like at some family event and you'd be like no more less tonight yeah they would tell you they would say blame no blame it on the that's our song we had a song called land welcome to land yeah welcome to land i've been wearing your shirt blame it it on the pussy Yeah Thanks doggy I like that shirt But yeah

Billy Goat Fucking ended 97 97 Then you moved to New Orleans Yeah And then pretty much Well no

I moved To Texas And We cleaned up I think about some crazy stories Like that are non-drug related I mean Fuck There were so many of them.

We were like this tribal underground thing that had a really cool following. Yeah. We lived in a van. I remember we flipped a van once. That was pretty nuts. What did you do there? This was when I was on methadone. So we played the double door in Chicago.

We're going up to play the grand, the reptile house. Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reptile house. And you could get methadone anywhere? I don't know much about methadone. Methadone was a drag, but it kept me from criming and getting into that shit I got to. Cause I was on tour in 94 when my brother died

and I was trying to clean up at that time. And then once he died, I was just like, fuck it. I didn't give a fuck. I stayed high for a good year and a half. And luckily I got on methadone because you could like do methadone and get like carry outs for a couple of days. Or if you're in Chicago, you could go to clinic and pay 10 bucks and-

Get methadone. Yeah, you know, I do a whole tour and they, you know, it's like advancing, you would advance your methadone. So, you know. It's fucking insane, dude. Yeah. So, you basically, but that, I mean, that kept you off heroin, right? Or were you still doing heroin too?

Well, yeah, I did do both. I mean, everyone that does methadone. But I remember I met William S. Burroughs at the methadone clinic. That was really cool. You have a conversation? Yeah, he looked at me. We had this crazy old van that was painted. We would drive around everywhere and get stopped by the cops every other day.

This van, we literally are spray painting the fuck. We've been hit. At one point, this is a good story. We're loading out of the Grand Emporium, and the door was open there on Main Street, right over here. Some car just comes by going 70 and pegs the fucking door. The door goes flying down the street. We get it.

Now, instead of getting the door put back on, we just got some rope and tied it to the window and sort of tied it to the car. So we toured with a door that was tied to our car. How many dates did you do together? That van already had like 500,000 miles on it. That was the van that we bought when we started touring in 90s. Hold on. You told me about this.

Okay. Check it out. So we had a blizzard to get to. And this ties into Methadone store. We played at Gabe's in Iowa City. Is that old Yacht Club? It's right there. The same people own it. Gabe's is right down from the Yacht Club. We leave that morning.

It's a blizzard, Iowa blizzard. We got to get to Cedar Falls to play steps. And we got to get there by five o'clock because the methadone clinic, it's the only methadone clinic in Iowa closed at five. So there's a snow drift in the van because it's just tied on, you know, it's not shut. There's no seals or anything. So at one point I see snow just coming across the van.

I'm driving going four miles per hour. We make it in. I get to the meth down in Kinnick. We get to the club. We play the gig. We come out of the gig. The snow's up, you know, all the way. We get to the club. We play the gig. We come out of the gig. It snows up all the way to the side of the van.

Crazy shit like that just happens all the time. Then that same... We got a new van finally that year. We're driving back to Reptile House. We're driving. We hit some black ice. Brand new Dodge van.

We catch air. We start flying. I'm leaning back. I see us rolling over. And I just think, oh shit, this is it. This is the van. This is the end. You know, here we go.

I looked at Go-Go Ray. I said, oh shit. Go-Go Ray was in your band? He was the Billy Goat drummer. What? Go-Go Ray was the guy who saved Billy Goat. Once we got Go-Go Ray in the Billy Goat band

around 94, 95, whenever he joined. Maybe it was 93. We jumped to the next level. That band got badass again. He's an amazing drummer, dude. He's an amazing drummer. He played with us in the 97.

Go-Go Ray and I, I remember we played Austin. So anyway, we flipped. I should have died when we landed. We had our two dogs with us. Shit was all over the interstate. All our gear, the trailer was like ripped up. Fucking shit everywhere.

Everybody was fine. We went to the hospital. No dogs died? Nothing died? Nothing died. And when they saw my side, they said, where's the person that was here? He's dead, right? He thought I was dead. You know, the early responders, whatever you call them. So we got our friends to come down from Grand Rapids and give us,

we made the gig, we finished the tour. And then I left those guys in Cleveland, flew home. Eventually, I was supposed to go get them, but I ended up just getting high and didn't make it back to pick up the band. So they were pissed. Yeah. But Go-Go stayed with us to the end, man.

But it got to the point where like we... Did he help... Do you think he saved your life? Well, probably by quitting the band. But the way we quit, this is the last Billy Go story. We're playing the Grand Emporium.

I called a song. He's like, fuck that song. I don't want to play it. I flew through the drum set, punched him in the face. He punched me in the face. We started beating the living shit out of each other.

On stage? On stage. Just beating each other's ass. And then, the bouncers came up. They were like, you know, it was a packed show.

Yeah, fuck you guys. You guys are out. They threw us both out. They 86'd the band from the club. That was in the show. Was it packed? It was packed.

It was fucking packed on a Monday night, you know? We were starting our fucking tour. We had a two-month tour booked. The bass player, JJ, who now plays with The Coup and a bunch of people, he was like, fuck y'all. He went to Mexico. He took the merch money and just disappeared. They took my ass to Salvation Army Detox.

They sued my ass into Detox. I Detoxed there. What's Salvation Army Detox like? It's a place over here. It's just like, you know, you get a cot. They give you fucking three meals. They tell you you're a piece of shit. You're going to fucking die.

And they make you go to AA meetings. And, you know, it was at that point that I was sort of going in and out of trying to clean up. How old were you here? That was 97, so I was 32. Then I moved to Kansas to Seattle that summer. Lived up there for a couple years. Started playing Cruelty to the Bug and moved back to Dallas.

Austin started the Hairy Apes. And then around 2000, you know, I quit doing dope in 2000, cleaned up, got my shit together. Yeah. And now you're playing,

now you're like, you're one of the heaviest cats in New Orleans, I feel. I wouldn't go that far. There's way heavier cats, but you know, I mean, but the point is,

after all this craziness and insanity, the music was always there. Like, someone sent me a video, and I'll show it to you from Billy Goat years in 96 us upstairs I could tell I was high

we were playing Thelonious Monk songs really? you were playing Monk songs? yeah in 96 I'm playing Well You Need really bad but you know it was still like

I remember like I was in a hotel room and I saw that Clint Eastwood Monk movie and you know the Billy Goat thing was a blast I loved it but I was in a hotel room and I saw that Clint Eastwood Monk movie. And the Billy Goat thing was a blast. I loved it. But I was like, I don't want to do this forever. I want to do some new shit. I was a classically trained percussionist.

So I saw that movie. I was like, I want to play Monk. I want to be like Monk. I just fell in love with Monk. And that, for me, was the moment that I started aiming towards getting off drugs. Monk. So Monk was the guy. You know, just that great music, you know, and by 2000, I finally kicked like for good. And it was all music from that point on. You know, by 97, 96, when I started playing with Skarik and Critters Buggin', you know, those guys didn't put up with shit.

I'd go out and play with them for a month and stay clean. Yeah. And, you know, really, Skarek, you know, he's an asshole. I got to hang out with him. I think he's an asshole because that's his stick. It's his stick. Yeah, exactly. But I love the guy.

He was the guy. He's a good guy. That fucking was like, you know, he really is not an asshole. He's very caring. That's what I'm thinking. He would call me and check on me. And he would say little things to me because he never saw how, he just heard the stories.

You know, I would show up. The first time I played with Critter's Buggin', we did a Billy Goat tour into that. And I'd kicked methadone that summer. I was sort of, I'd been clean for like two months. We went to Denton and I relapsed. Okay. So I relapsed so bad that I couldn't even see anyone.

So the guys, they, I just disappeared. They all drove to Baton Rouge. I never showed up in Baton Rouge. We had a sold out show down there. Somehow I caught a cab, took a taxi because I had all the band money from Denton show. Took a taxi to DFW, flew to New Orleans, slept in the airport overnight

and caught my plane for my first ever Creators Bugging gig. First time I met Seattle, a skerrick in Seattle. I showed up there without any clothes, without any instruments, but I showed up and they looked at me like, what happened to you? And I just said to my buddy, Matt, I was like, dude, I relapsed this weekend, but I want to do the gig.

I'm going to stay clean. He's like, all right, cool. He didn't tell anyone. And I fucking like pulled it together, learned their fucking music, which was really different than Billy Goat. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. We rehearsed for a week and then we went and played like and that was Were you a drummer? I was the percussionist. Chamberlain was the drummer.

Brad Houser the bass player. Skarek was the Skarek hated me. He was clean? I mean you know whatever. He partied. You know

I don't know what he did but he didn't do what I did. Yeah. No. But you know there was just such a level of like musicianship with those guys, and that started me

towards this jam band trajectory. You know, we were touring, you know, within a year, we were, like, touring with, like... So you never thought you'd be in the jam scene? Dude, I have friends from the Billy Goat world, like, how did you end up in the jam band world? But, you know, truthfully for me, man, you know what? Same way

you were talking about earlier. You know, we toured with Modesky, Martin, Wood, and Critters Buggin'. We toured with Grey Boy All-Stars some. And all those guys were really good players. You know, Billy Martin, John Medesky, Chris Wood, Charlie Hunter was coming out. All these guys were like guys my age that I thought could really play. So the focus, even though it was the jam band scene, to me, I thought it was great.

I was like, you mean people are coming out to see guys play instrumental music? We did that in Denton all the time. It's not like Snarky Puppy now where they're doing 3,000 people a night. You'd have 30 people there. They didn't give a fuck about instrumental music. It was just like, oh, you jazz nerds, fuck y'all. Yeah, it's crazy because now the Wolf Packs of the world

and the Snarky Puppies and the Galactics, I mean, it's crazy. It's a scene in itself. I feel like now the jam scene is turning into a singing scene too. There's a lot more singers. What do you think about it, man? You're coming at it from the rock world yourself. You booked punk rock clubs. I mean, yeah.

I feel it's... I don't know. I'm still the outsider looking in because I'm like you, but we're a party band. I want to bring the crowd and I want to bring the experience of the whole thing. That's why

I love you. That's what you're doing you're doing it and you know well i learned from you mikey you didn't learn nothing from me but honestly from the sean eccles my guitar player right has been in your scene jack kakuzas mac kakuzas those are all my best friends that i well i know and all the stories kids man you know they saw this they walked i mean i could see how they are inspired by you and your bands like what the whole spoon fed feels like they saw billy go back in the day and then they saw hairy apes shit back in the days. I could see how they are inspired by you and your bands. The whole Spoonfed feels like... They saw Billy Goat back in the day and then they saw Hairy Apes. The whole drum, doing the drums outside.

The Drew thing. Yeah. You've built so many people's careers you don't even know. You are the man, Mike. Well, I learned from men that taught me, like the guys in Brave Combo and Denton. You know, that's the great thing about music.

Whether it's George Porter playing with you at the Maple Leaf on Thursday. Man, I've learned so much from George about like being a man, cleaning up, and being into it for the music. You know, to like Carl from Brave Combo. You know, same deal, man. You know, Brave Combo is this great band. Like, you know, I don't know if you know anything about Brave Combo. I don't know anything about Brave Combo. You know, same deal, man. You know, Brave Combo was this great band. Like, you know, I don't know if you know anything about Brave Combo. I don't know anything about Brave Combo.

But Dave, I played with them and David Byrne would come watch him play in New York. David Byrne had him play his wedding. You know,

they played the guy from, you know, when I toured with them, they played The Simpsons House. You know, Matt Groening. We all went swimming

at the guy from The Simpsons House. Yeah. Sick. But they were a party band but with a purpose, you know? Yeah. And that's what you're doing. were a party band but with a purpose. Yeah.

And that's what you're doing. You're a party band with a purpose. Thanks, man. You know, I used to go see African bands like King Sonny all day. I went and saw Fela. Fela was super hardcore.

Fela was? Fucking yeah. Fela was hardcore, man. He was fucking, he would talk politics for an hour before he even started playing. I saw him playing Dallas. Do you think rock and roll is dead?

No. No? I think it's the same as it has ever been. In the 80s, pop music was really big and we thought it all sucked and all of a sudden Nirvana came along with their angst. And I think that'll probably happen again.

Maybe not as cool as what Nirvana did because there was something fresh and new about Nirvana. Maybe not to an older person, but I mean, I didn't think Nirvana was that great because they were just like my age

and I knew the girl that was selling Kurt heroin when he came to Dallas. Crazy. You know, they were just like, oh guys our age that were dope fiends.

You know, Kurt was. We all knew it. So one last question, and then I'll let you go, Mike. You got so much shit. No, we're doing this more. This is going to be a tradition. Talks with Uncle Mike.

We've been on for an hour now. Awesome. So one last question. If you could start a band, every instrument, musicians dead or alive, you could have your own super band of musicians. Who would it be? Well, this is to show you what a real nerd I am. I want to hear it.

I'd have Art Blakey on drums. I saw Art Blakey play. Now, I'd have Art Blakey check out all the new shit that was going on to see what he would do with it. Because I swear to God, I saw Art Blakey play drums. In 86, I saw Art Blakey play, I saw Tony Williams play, and I saw the Bad Brains play when they were at the peak of their powers. That's fucking crazy.

It was incredible, you know, just to see like that. And even like the Chili Peppers that year, I saw them with Hell L. When they were on their… Dude, they were all strung out. And, you know, I keep talking about heroin, but whatever. It's just like… That was just a scene in the 90s, wasn't it? Well, it's been the scene forever.

And I'm not trying to glorify it. It's going to sound like I am, but you said you wanted dirt. I wanted dirt. I'm telling you the real shit. I ain't trying to hide nothing. No, that's what I want to hear. I mean, people need to hear this. But let me tell you the other thing for all you kids out there. Anyone

listen to this shit. Heroin will kill you. I had some old guys that told me what to do. Don't ever drink and do heroin together. No. Don't ever drink. Don't ever do heroin and pill Xanax together. That'll kill you. And truthfully to now, today's with what they're putting in it, shouldn't ever do heroin and pill Xanax together. That'll kill you.

And truthfully to now, today's with what they're putting in it, shouldn't fucking do it all. Fentanyl, I overdosed once and it was on fentanyl back when I did. No, I overdosed three times and one time was on fentanyl. Shit's just too strong. No, man.

You don't know what, and it's all dirty, man. That's crazy. You know, Burroughs and Keith Richards, all those guys, they were getting pharmaceutical shit. Yeah. That's why they're still alive. That's why they live to be old.

So back to the band. Don't do heroin. Don't do heroin. If anything, it robbed me of my career. You think so? Oh, fuck yeah, dude. Is that the one thing you regret? I don't regret it at all because it made me who I am.

Yeah. But it robbed you who I am. Yeah. But. It robbed you of the bill to go. You know, if we would have not been on drugs and we would have like focused on our career, we could have like, you know, had a better career.

I mean, we're getting our songs in major movies and, you know, shit was happening. We had a good opportunity. We just blew it. Art Blakey on drums.

Well, dude, I mean, of course, I'd be like, all right, Thelonious Monk on piano. Bass. Who would I have on bass? Who's that guy I saw you play with? Dude, on bass, I would still have who I play with all the time.

James Singleton. He was done with fun show, man. I would have James Singleton on bass. He's my favorite bass player ever. I mean, I've played with a lot of great bass players, but James is great because like Blakey, those cats are going to make you sound great. Yeah.

So I'd have Blakey on drums, James on bass, Monk on piano, Wes Montgomery on guitar. I don't know who that is. Wes Montgomery. And then I would have Milt Jackson on vibes. I would just direct this shit. Yeah. Any horn players?

Oh, yeah. Fucking Coleman Hawkins. Everyone talks about Coltrane, but I love Coleman Hawkins, man. I'd have Coleman Hawkins. Everyone talks about Coltrane, but I love Coleman Hawkins, man. Yeah. I'd have Coleman Hawkins on, on sacks. And then, you know, man,

probably get Miles Davis. Yeah, that sounds like. But you know what? Nah, fuck Miles, man. Miles is too much of an asshole. I've heard the stories about Miles. Yeah, I did too. He was an asshole.

He used to take Monk's band? I don't know All those guys Just Pam Moore Yeah He did shit like that I would just want to get Like someone like

Woody Shaw Or Freddie Hubbard You know Freddie Freddie And then I want to get Eric Dolphy in the band Yeah

And then I'd play Marimba and percussion You know Who'd sing? And let me see. Who would I get as a singer? I would sing. I would do my thing. And then I would have a badass singer.

I'd have Billie Holiday doing all the high stuff. So I'd be doing like, you know, like in Frank Zappa's band. Yeah. And then I'd have Frank Zappa in the? Yeah. You know, and then I have Frank Zappa in the band with me too. That sounds good. And Captain Beefheart. So it'd be an awesome band.

Oh my God. And then you know what? And then I'd have Charles Mingus as writer and arranger and on bass too. Yeah, I'd have a double bass player. And then what the fuck? You'd have to get Ornette Coleman

in there too. There's got to be one rock guy I want to bring back to play with me. Yeah, it's all jazz. Okay, but then here's what's going to make it amazing. What? Then I'm going to get Elliot Smith to join the band. Oh my god.

And we're going to fucking... Everyone's going to be clean. Did you ever meet Elliot Smith? I never met him, but I had a lot of my friends, you know, I got friends that worked with him. My buddy Darrell. That record you did with Elliot Smith, that was really good.

You have it? Yes, I do. I got to make sure. All right. You have a vinyl copy? No, I want a vinyl. I got one here. I just got a couple sent to me.

All right, cool. Mike? Yeah, this was a great talk, man. I mean. You're the man, dude. I look up to you, man, and you've done a lot, and you've seen a lot, you've You've seen a lot And you've fought through it

And it must have been hard To fucking kick that Heroin And find the The true love of your life Again Which is music And to see you back

And playing with everyone Music man I remember that moment Where I was like What am I gonna do Am I just gonna be a drug addict Or am I gonna play music And music won

That's why I feel about Partying Or women Cause I used to be be a drug addict or am I going to play music? And music won. That's why I feel about women. I used to be with a lot of women. And I was like, what am I doing? I'm just spending all my time just flirting with women and fucking women. And I'm not practicing my instrument. Yeah. Practicing is where it's at. I mean, dude, I've seen you grow so much.

When I first met you, you were still pretty wild, right? I was fucking really wild. I mean, you're still wild. mean dude I've seen you grow so much when I first met you you were still pretty wild right I was fucking really wild I mean you're still wild but you're really focused dude I'm focused now you're like a laser beam yeah

yeah I'm in you're taking it man I'm trying I'm learning from you know you guys are so good I mean I had this talk with Denson like everyone gets better every year on the jam cruise

like all the musicians like that was a scene to get better you know and that's yeah that's the musicians, that was a scene to get better. That's the great thing about playing with Carl, man. Playing with Les, playing with all these guys that once I cleaned up and quit drugs, I got to play with guys

that I really looked up to. And learned from. Carl was always practicing. Skarek was always practicing. Matt Chamberlain. I guarantee he's practicing right now. I feel guilty if I Praxson. Matt Chamberlain. I guarantee he's Praxson right now. I feel guilty if I don't practice. Yeah. I always see you Praxson

even when you bring your vibe in the fucking hotel room and shit and practice. You got to. Got to. It's amazing. Mike, I love you, buddy. Thanks for doing this.

Let's make this a tradition. And we live in Kansas City now together, so we're going to join a band together. Yeah, we're going to start a band. And you're going to be in my band.'re going to join a band together. Yeah, we're going to start a band. And you're going to be in my band. I didn't tell you that yet. Yeah, I am going to tour with you. I want to go to Europe with you,

but I have a tour with Nolotet booked. That's fine. That five days, but we'll figure out another time. Come with us in the fall. Yeah, we got to start figuring it out. You got anything you want to promote? One last thing? New Nolotet record coming out.

Tight. You know, so. You're always doing something. Check out Mike Dillon. He's the man. one last thing new Nolotet record coming out tight you know so you're always doing something check out Mike Dillon he's the man the myth the legend um

yeah what a great interview love you buddy love you too brother until next time yeah hey it's Schwartz uh I'm getting texts

that you're selling t-shirts for two bucks I know it's the last day of tour getting texts that you're selling T-shirts for $2. I know it's the last day of tour. You're paying like $5 or $6 a shirt. I have a feeling you just don't want to take any leftover shirts on the plane or what have you, and you're just burdened by it. But that's ridiculous. Sell the T-shirts for 10 bucks even.

Get it together. Start thinking with your head. Now, a message from the UN. Got a letter in an old mailbox Forgot I had it in a little truck stop Read it once and I read it again I can hardly keep from crying Driving around the last week or so with an empty truck

I didn't have a load and I don't care cause to tell you the truth I think I might be dying and it's trucker speed Ben's a dream Percocets and Phenomines, Black Beauties and West Coast Turnarounds.

When the coast is clear, I drive with my knees, I mix it all up like a recipe, Coca-Cola and coffee to wash it down. Sometimes I feel like my wheels ain't touching the ground. Sometimes I feel like my wheels ain't touching the ground. Like my wheels ain't touching the ground There you have it. Music lover's dream. Mike Dillon. Mike Dillon. That was a great one.

It was really good. I learned a lot. I learned a lot about record deals in the 90s. learned a lot about record deals in the 90s and i learned a lot about how heroin is a hell of a fucking drug man those were some of those were straight up scary stories yeah i was i was like i don't want to like not scary in the sense of like i was afraid of what was going to happen. It's just like eye-opening, intense, camping. Yeah. Mikey, I love you, buddy. I'm glad you're on the Up and Up.

I'm glad you're riding great music. And yeah, thank you so much for being on the show. I'm glad you're around to tell those stories. Yeah, we love you, buddy. You're my uncle. Well, there you have it, guys. Here we are. Another episode bites the motherfucking dust.

In the books. Count it. Follow us on Instagram, Frasco and Yeti. We have funny stuff on there. It's seriously hilarious. Yeah, we laugh. I don't know if no one else laughs. We laugh our asses off.

And then... We probably laugh our asses off more because of the stuff that we want to put up yeah and then we have to delete it like two minutes later because we're getting like

I'm like hey what happened to that one oh yeah it wasn't a good idea I didn't think about it my favorite meme we've done is the Robocop

coming metallic what did you see that one that was one of the first ones did you take that one down no I kept that one it was one? That was one of the first ones I posted. Did you take that one down? No, I kept that one up.

It was too funny. It's one of the first ones. It's like Robocop jerking off. I'm going in. And he comes just metal. I'm going in. Well, we got a website, Frasco and Yeti. We have all the episodes.

We do have a website now. Yeah, all the episodes are up. All the episodes are on there if you don't want to go to iTunes. But subscribe to iTunes because we need to get ratings. We love ratings because that helps us. Yes. Check out my tour dates, andyfrasco.com. I'm playing everywhere this summer.

Like literally. Literally everywhere. Fucking everywhere. He's like Visa. I'm like Visa. Yeah. And the Herb. He just doesn't go away. Visa. And I'm like Visa. Yeah. And the herb. He just doesn't go away. I'm like the herb. I just stick around.

Think you got rid of him. Surprise. Back again. Love you guys. We got more episodes coming up and it's really fun. Stick around. Send us emails. We have Frasco and Yeti at Gmail. Yeah. frasco and yeti at gmail yeah frasco

and yeti at gmail hit them up hit us up on the dm on the instagram frasco and yeti slide into them slide into it we love your questions keep them coming and we will answer them as we get them thank you guys love you be calm see you next week and don't forget to comb your mother fucking hair have a good day See you next week. And don't forget to comb your motherfucking hair. Have a good day. Thank you for listening to episode 8 of Andy Fresco's World Saving Podcast with Yeti. Produced by Andy Fresco, Yeti and Chris Lawrence. Please subscribe and rate the show on iTunes and Spotify

so we can make this a worldwide phenomenon. For info on the show, please head to our Instagram at Fresco and Yeti. For more info on the blog and tour dates, head to andyfresco.com. For more information on our guest Mike Dillon, head to MikeDillonVibes.com In this week's Song of the Week, you listened to Caleb Hawley featuring Andy Fresco, performing We All Got Problems. We also got special guests for this week. Sean Eccles, Andy Avila, Brian Swartz and Arna Bakker.

We will return.