Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 9: Dave Schools (Widespread Panic)

Episode Date: May 29, 2018

Not too long ago in a county just north of San Francisco... Andy and Yeti travel by way of tour van to the remote wilderness of Sonoma where they discover a sage-like being known as DAVE SCHOOLS. He trains the Fro and everyone levels up spiritually. Also, we have World News with our old pal, Vince Herman from Leftover Salmon! And remember: if you can't draw a crowd to your show, then there's only one thing left to draw... This is Episode 9. To keep up with the podcast, follow us on Instagram @WorldSavingPodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, tour dates, the band and the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Follow our guest, Dave Schools & Widespread Panic: widespreadpanic.com Big thanks to our sponsor, Blue Delta Jeans Produced by Andy Frasco Yeti Chris Lorentz Engineered by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Brian Schwartz Vince Herman Arno Bakker Shawn Eckels & Andee Avila

One, two, three. low pretty low hoping folks will join us for a show for a show i added five names to the list they did show up now my singer's pissed buckle up baby this is gonna blow if you can't draw crowd draw dick if you can't draw crowd draw dick not too many in the crowd Everybody gets your sharpies out Can't draw a crowd, draw a dick There's too much space between us So I was forced to draw a penis You can't draw a crowd, draw a dick Listen to the rap, baby

Oh, God, let's go Here we are. Why are you laughing so much? Because we're doing podcasts in the van on the road. This is Bedtime Stories with Andy and Yeti.co's world saving podcast with yeti we are in day 17 hour eight of a 17 hour drive day 17 hour eight feels like it this one's taking a while yeti we have a great guest today i love this i'm laying down in the bed. Yeti's in the bed next to me. This is the nighttime podcast. This is the bedtime stories podcast.

This is when I get out my bedtime story voice and I start talking about going to sleep. I told you, I said, we should just do it. We should just record until we fall asleep. That sounds boring as fuck. It'd be hilarious.

It'd be like a 10 minute gap. I'd be like, Andy, are you there? What? We got Dave Schools on the show today. What's Dave taught you? Dave has taught me

how to calm down, settle it down. Don't sweat down settle it down don't sweat the small stuff don't sweat the small stuff and he wants me to last longer than through my 30s

he wants me to last forever so did he see did he sit you down and say I see your pace and it's not sustainable yes

yeah he said you need to calm it down you need to still bring the energy but you need to calm it the fuck down where calm it down where calm it down in a sense of like not taking drugs drinking you know control that learn how to meditate, learn how to be comfortable in the moment, even if the moment is a 24-hour travel day. Learn to just be in that moment and not outside of it, not what may have happened last night or what might be happening down the road, literally.

Yeah, because I get stuck in the future like i'm always planning for the future i'm not you know vince says i'm the most present human being he's ever met and sometimes i like to disagree i want to disagree with him because i'm so far in my head about the future that i just forget well i think he's saying that you are present, but at the same time, you know how much of your time is actually spent in the present moment. I think that's a testament. I mean, you're an engaging person. You talk to the person that's in front of you.

You know, if somebody, unless your phone's there, then that's not the case. Oh yeah, I got it. I want to put my phone in like child's lock mode. What's going on, Yeti? How are we feeling? This is another day on the road with us. These road trips are good.

It makes you appreciate being able to walk more than 10 feet at a time. Do you think you could ever do this for a living? Oh, yeah. I know I could. Yeah? Tour like this? Yeah. That's good to know. I know I could. Yeah? Tour like this? Yeah. That's good to know.

I love, I like doing it. I mean, Meg and I have talked about it. And I've said, yeah, if I was gone, not if I was gone, but if I was doing what I love, which is hosting events and emceeing and getting people excited. and getting people excited. If I was doing that, you know, 75% of the time,

maybe 60% of the time, it'd be a good spot for me. And I'd, you know, if I'm looking in hours of a week, that's what that percentage is at. So, yeah, it's a thing.

But you, I mean, you've been doing it for 10 years. What's the part you don't like? I don't like the hurry up and wait. Oh, yeah. Drive, drive, drive. Oh, we don't need to be there for two more hours now.

Yeah. That's no fun. Soundcheck got moved back. Yeah, and it's also like you wait a whole day just to do two hours of work yeah that's kind of weird to me is it two hours of work though well it's like ten hours work but like the stuff that you know the show is only two hours shows only two hours but all the other stuff I guess it's part of the show part of it yeah but like the real fun stuff is two hours. It's intense for two hours, though. Yeah, I know.

Yeah, it's crazy. It's like hyper-stimulation of stimulation. Tell me about this keto diet. Keto. Keto diet. You've been talking about this. The Magic Pill is the documentary that everybody should be watching right now. You don't have to agree with everything in it,

but here's the thing. should be watching right now um you don't have to agree with everything in it but i would argue here's the thing i would argue that you can't disagree with the science behind it and that's where i'm coming from is this is science based people don't know what the science is what is the science keto is there's this thing called ketosis that your body can goes into that it should be into and this is a way to look at it as this natural state. If you look at the history of human evolution and the way we ate up to about 150, 200 years ago, so about the time of the industrial revolution and mass farming, we ate very differently than we do now. Most times when you ask Americans, especially what their diet looks like, they give this Pavlovian response of,

well, it's the food pyramid. And we all know what that looks like. A little bit of sweets at the top, fruits and vegetables, meats, and then grains and breads, right? Yeah. Well, that food pyramid, did you know that was introduced in the 1930s

from a single study done by one doctor? Really? And it was accepted as science and what there was no science behind it at all so what were they trying to sell grains oh fuck yeah think about it the market falls out the u.s is in free fall the great recession happens what do you do you start supplementing crops you can get into a whole thing and see why all this happens it doesn doesn't matter why it happened. The fact is that it happened and we switched the way we ate. And suddenly we are doing things that our bodies aren't made to do. And people are, and cancer

rates are through the roof. Disease rates are through the roof. I mean, the number one killer in this country is diabetes because it's manifested in so many things so there's type one and type two diabetes right you've got um diabetes that's caused by um there's genetic things there's nothing to be done about it as far as they can tell you've got diabetes this is caused by diet and then you've got um uh those two type of diabetes and then there's this third type of diabetes that they're calling, they're seeing that brain disorders, dementia, Alzheimer's,

those types of things are related to sugar and carbohydrates and what we're taking in in our diet. So I just explained the whole documentary. So we don't have to watch it. No, we don't. So tell me about this. So why do they say fat is so bad for you but this this diet tells you it's so good for you well we had to stick to what this food

pyramid bottle was right that said that this was the way it was supposed to be we were supposed to have it in this order and there was supposed to be the most of you know if we're looking at a portion and then the new the portion plate came out and it's like and it said more greens and still carbs and then some meat and protein or whatever you want to call it. And all I can say is that the process of ketosis is like this. It's your body's natural way of processing the nutrients that come through it and so what this means is that when we ingest carbohydrates when we ingest sugar in the way that we do with processed foods such as bread and everything like that our bodies turn that into fat it's or because there's only one thing you can do you can create

energy from it you can turn it into fat and the amount of carbohydrates we eat we can never get rid of that's that brings me to another point is for us to start thinking of food as medicine rather than to think of food as nutrition because it is nutrition but it really it's medicine as well so instead of oh i have a headache i'm going to take some ibuprofen why don't we just think about it like oh i have a headache. I'm going to take some ibuprofen. Why don't we just think about it like, oh, I have a headache. How much water did I drink today? That's a really simple way that we can, rather than looking at medicine, we can look at what have I lacked my body of that it's crying out for now, that it's displaying some sort of symptom to need. And when you start tuning into your body and you start paying attention to what it really needs when you focus on that well you just feel better yeah I totally agree that's why I stopped taking cocaine because because my body was telling me I can't live off of just speed, coffee, and, you know, like trans fats, like MSG, like McDonald's and shit.

So the drive-thru runs. And the alcohol. So it's like I'm basically drying out. I'm so super, super dehydrated that I'm basically just drying up. It's just sugar. That's sugar and stimulants is all that is. I mean, it's just stimulants. That's all you're running on.

I'm running on stimulants, yeah. Yeah. And eventually you just burn out. You max your nerves out, everything. There's nothing in there that your body produces naturally. So why does Adderall and Ritalin do the same thing is there a chemical yeah but are those stimulants i don't know enough about them my understanding is that they are i don't i just don't understand why they're pumping these kids with all this well for example

in this in this documentary i saw called the magic pill, there was a child that was a young girl, six years old, autistic, nonverbal. She ate a diet that consisted of chicken nuggets, goldfish, and Cheetos. Or Doritos, not Cheetos. That's basically what a child eats in America. Right, exactly. And so that's all she ate. And her parents, I mean, she was nonverbal autistic, which a special needs child already is, it's difficult at best. And so,

you know, these parents find themselves between a rock and a hard place in the sense that they either choose fighting with this child that already has severe emotional and physical, sometimes physical needs, or appeasing this one area and just getting through mealtimes so they themselves can eat. And so long story short, they go onto a keto diet and this girl within six weeks is completely off all these medicines that they had her on to keep her focused and anti-anxiety and all these things. She's starting to verbalize things, saying things like no and yes, or she says, you're welcome. For a girl, so it's like she's suddenly at two years old and starting to develop because that's

where she stopped in her growth process. And it was because of the food? because that's where she stopped in her growth process. And it was because of the food? They found out that it wasn't because of the food that she was eating that she became this way. It's important to make that distinction. It's that food, the diet that they put into her body, the food that they put into her body that she ate, changed her body and affected it in a positive way wow it's crazy that is crazy

like what's that other documentary talking about like melt heal heal yeah well it melts cancer away yeah they talk about this in this documentary well this is as well and this is like the last example i use because i really want people to it, because it's so much more than these. There's a Jewish woman, actually, a traditional Jewish woman. She's Hasidic. Isn't that where the women wear headdresses? Hasidic women. Yeah, so she's Hasidic. So imagine this.

She has already a dietary specificity. She needs to eat kosher. And then on top of that, she finds out she has cancer, and breast cancer with a large lump. Long story short, she goes home. She decides she's going to take some time. She's not going to do the surgery or the chemical chemotherapy that they wanted. She changes her diet to keto and goes back. And in four weeks, the cancer is completely gone. And the reason this happens is because cancer cells,

and science proves this. You can argue, anybody could argue with me, and I'm not inviting that. I'm just saying science proves that cancer cells feed on sugar. If you can starve them of sugar. So if you stop putting sugar into your body, there's nothing for them to feed on and they go away. Fuck.

It's science. And the fact that the material- Why don't people believe in science it's not that people don't believe in science it's that they'd rather believe in money there's a lot of money in cancer and i'm not saying that all cancer is cured by this because that's we don't know that but we do know that there are so many cases between these two documentaries alone that i've watched and i understand that that can be a very small percentage but between these two that also have done a lot of research in this field the thing that is unitarian in these is your attitude and your diet it comes down to how you approach this so if you could say one could argue that somebody has cancer they go in

and they do a keto diet, but they go in thinking that it's completely not going to work and suddenly it doesn't work. So does that mean the keto diet's fucked up? Or does that mean that we have, our thoughts have more power than we realize? That's a good question. I'd like to see that.

I think our thoughts have a lot to do with it. Because- Oh, absolutely. I people, like you could see that with going, like when people are going through who are really sick and lose hope they die quicker than the people who are not giving up pushing through mentally that are fighting that are fighting yeah well you see that with people with people they lose a spouse and if that was their whole world which typically it was um for people i saw this with my grandparents. My grandfather passed away,

and my grandmother had been his caretaker for years, saw the relief. The relief came over her, and she was already herself in a position. They were in the same care facility for the last years of their life. But she passed away within six or seven months of him passing, within a year.

Within a year. So that's an energy that's connected. Six or seven months have been passing. Within a year. Within a year. That's an energy that's connected. That's our ability to be connected to our bodies and to really heal ourselves. What do you think about, well, fuck, now I feel all bad about myself. I feel like I'm going to die soon because my diet sucks. But you can change that.

I mean, that's what's great is that you can change that every day. I think so. I think we need to get healthier. I think we need to focus in, dial in with our bodies, stay in tune. Speaking of that, speaking of staying in tune, should we listen to the Dave Schools interview? Talking about somebody who knows how to stay in tune. He does know how to stay in tune.

Stupid segue. That was my fault. We'll get better at segues. I tried to get back in the segue. But yeah, listen to the Dave Schools interview. Dave's the man. He was in Widespread Panic. He plays with Todd Snyder.

He produces bands now. He just produced Cat Wright's stuff. He produced my stuff. He's just a great guy. I've learned so much about him. I hope you enjoy the interview while me and Yeti take a quick nap in the van. Good night, Andy.

Good night, Yeti. Will you sing me a lullaby after the school's interview? Yes, I'll do it. We'll come back with it. Good night, Andy. Good night, Yeti. Will you sing me a lullaby after the school's interview? Yes, I'll do it. We'll come back with it. All right, guys. Enjoy the school's interview. Hi, Dave. Hi, Andy.

How we doing? We're good. Welcome to my little humble abode. Oh, my God. This is like a 50-50, like 180 of your road life. This area, we're in like some, is this Sonoma County? This is West Sonoma County.

You've been here for how many years? 10 years. 10 years. Wow. Beautiful place to zen out before you go out on the road again, huh? Yeah. Thanks for wearing shoes. I know.

No problem, buddy. You're like, we're cleaning up the house. Your filthy ass doesn't get this house even dirtier than it needs to be. Just wrap some Wonder Bread bags around your feet like Moe from The Simpsons. Oh, exactly. Ladies and gentlemen, we are with Dave Schools from the bass player of Widespread Panic, the bass player of Hardworking Americans. I have notes.

You played with Maskus? You played with Dinosaur Jr.? Played with Jay in the fog, yeah. And then you also did Stockholm Syndrome, yes. Stockholm Syndrome, Mickey Hart Band. We're Here? We're Here, the crazy internet TV show. What's slang?

Slang was like a project with my friend Lang Martine, who we did it in the late 90s, and then we did a second record in the early aughts. Is that what they call those? The early aughts? I just can't get used to it. Yeah, why do they say that? Because it's, maybe aught is easier than double O.

I don't know. Around double O4, I made a second slang record. And that's sort of cut and paste electronic music, but we wound up having songwriters like Lori Carson and Vic Chestnut write words for some of the pieces that we put together. Kind of like soundtracks for imaginary movies. I met a lyricist, Tom Marshall. Fish's guy. Fish's guy. First time, couple days ago. And he's got a podcast too. And it's fascinating to see lyricists work with musicians, like with Elton and Bernie.

How is it working with a lyricist? Is it harder writing song structures with lyrics in mind, or do you write the melodies first and then do the lyrics? How does that work? You know, I'm no good with lyrics and I'm really jealous of people who are, and I've been very blessed to have worked with people like Vic Chestnut and Danny Hutchins and Jerry Joseph and

Todd Snyder. Oh, Snyder, man. And Joseph, such a great lyricist. Great lyricist. And really, I think for the collaboration to work, you know, in my experience, a lot of it is done together, in the room together. And for me, it always starts with music. And I'm such a not traditional bass player that I wind up playing melody lines on the bass. And in the case of like Jerry Joseph, he'll kind of cop the bass melody line and start putting his words to it. And then once he's got his vocal melody and his lyrics, then I just go back to playing normal bass.

Oh, so you write the melody on the bass for him? Sometimes, yeah. Wow. And then he'll lyric it up and doctor it and stuff. Sure. And it's funny. It seems like every songwriter I work with, well, okay, let's just say Todd Snyder and Jerry Joseph, they want to be bass players. Yeah. So Jerry taught me how to play dub and reggae bass. I couldn't really get a grip on it. He's like, you've got to just imagine a big man like yourself walking, taking big steps slowly,

and boom, boom, ba-rum-ba-da-ba-dum-dum, boom. So he showed me that. And it seems like every time I come to a Hardworking Americans rehearsal, it's either Todd Snyder or Dwayne Trucks are sitting there plunking out a really cool bass line that I never would have thought of. But yeah, I think a melody can come from anywhere. You're a songwriter. You know what we're talking about. Oh, yeah. We're going to get to that too. Because there's three levels of you,

Dave, that I am so fascinated with. Dave, the bass player, the musician, but being a producer is also being a musician. So Dave, the bass player, Dave, the producer, and Dave, the journalist. And it's so funny that you don't have a hard time with lyrics because wasn't that your major? Well, it wasn't poetry. No, okay. Let's put it that way. It was like reportage, just the facts, ma'am, kind of thing.

And I think it all just came because I liked books and I started reading really, really early. I was an only child. And books and music were kind of my best friends. So when it came time to write that report on see Dick and Jane run spot down the hill, it was kind of easy to write about it. And so I started being encouraged to be a writer. It's like indoctrination of patterning young children these days. Like, you are going to be a writer. It's like indoctrination of patterning young children these days.

Like, you are going to be a writer. And it's definitely better than being told you're going to be a cop. Seriously. So who are your inspirations as a writer? I really liked Hunter Thompson. I mean, it was really hard not to kind of come of age in the 70s and read Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and kind of smoke my know, smoked my shitty

weed that was filled with seeds. So did you want to be like a beat writer? What was that? Or just a road rider, traveler? I just wanted to write. I just wanted to be able to express myself in ways that I felt I couldn't do verbally. Were you playing music at this time? I was starting to plunk around on the bass. And there was always a piano in the house.

Because rumor has it you wanted to be a drummer. I really wanted to be a drummer. You still want to be a drummer? Let's talk about that. So that was your first thing? As a musician, like the first thing going in, you wanted to be a drummer. What was it about the drums that you fell in love with? It was Keith Moon.

Really? It was Keith Moon. It was Keith Moon. It was all about the B-side of the Pinball Wizard 45, which I had when I was like four. What? Which makes it like 1968 or 69. You were listening to Pinball Wizard at four? I inherited, my parents

loved buying me 45s. They didn't necessarily like some of the things like Deep Purple. Yeah, of course. But Pinball Wizard was an amazing piece of music. But on the B side was this strange instrumental called Dogs Part Two or Part One or something. And it was just Keith Moon barking like a dog and playing the drums like he was throwing them down a flight of stairs.

Yeah. And it just, it was crazy. It sounded like freedom to to me you know at that age I didn't know how he was playing what it meant and where it came from or anything musical about it I just knew that what I heard and what resonated in my little brain pan was fun and freedom yeah and I wanted some of that and if I was coordinated, I might have picked up drums. But the fact is, my parents got divorced. We moved into an apartment complex.

And there was no way I was going to practice drums. What, in Richmond? Yeah, in Richmond, Virginia. So how long did you live in Richmond for? Until I graduated from high school. Yeah, I have this note, too, that you went to collegiate school, kindergarten through 12th grade um and now you have a you started a scholarship and for inspiring musicians i didn't start the scholarship

it's uh it was started by some other alums who were a little younger than me they were panic fans um but it's got my name on it and i fully support it yeah so tell me about that. What is it? It's the David Schools Music Scholarship. And basically, it goes to some student that normally couldn't afford to go to this expensive prep school. I don't know how my divorced mother kept me in it, but God bless her for doing what it took. It's expensive? It's a prep school, yeah.

Did you have a scholarship or anything? No, she just worked her butt off. I think she might have done their alumni magazine and and uh you know maybe things weren't as expensive as in the 70s as they are now it's all relative probably maybe so but i got a good education and there wasn't much of a music program that started to change um in the 90s which is when this scholarship came about and so someone who couldn't afford to go to school there that shows musical aspiration can get the scholarship. And I've seen some people that have reaped the benefits of it. A couple of people are professional musicians now that came out of the

school. And I wouldn't trade what I learned for anything. Maybe some socialization would have been nice, but I was with the same 60 boys and girls from kindergarten all the way till we went off to college. Wow. Yeah, you had a sports column. What were you? I actually had a sports, I was an interview oriented sports column.

So what kind of, what were you into? What kind of sports were you into? I liked playing soccer. I was actually a fearless goalie. In America too. Yeah, it was not cool. Not cool. Especially a guy my size, they wanted me to play goalie. In America too. Yeah, it was not cool. Not cool. Especially a guy my size, they wanted me to play football. You better believe it.

They actually, they were like, I think I was in eighth grade and they were like, you can walk on with the varsity football team and we will make it so you don't have to do any other athletics for the rest of the year. And I was like, I don't like football. I used to like watching it before they started throwing all the flags all the time. There was some sort of graceful, lunkhead ballet that you could observe. Yeah, I know. But I like soccer. Let's talk about

the college years. You meet the band. You know, this is when so Schwartz, you know, we share the same age, our manager, Brian Schwartz. What's up, Brian? Don't be sending bad emails or voicemails after this interview, please, to either one of us. But he told me when he first met,

when he was first working with the band, he said, Dave Schools was the one I had to worry about. Oh yeah, I was a problem child for sure. Well, tell me about it. Okay, so you started widespread in it with uh you started widespread with what the three members uh yeah well let's just I'll do the quick thing I went down there to go to journalism school yeah but I knew that I wanted to play music and I knew it was a music school and a party school eventually a mutual

friend introduced me to John Bell and then that's how i met mike hauser he and mikey were already kind of starting to work some songs out together and so there was a three piece thing going on and you weren't a bass player yet i was a bass player so you're now okay yeah i had a band called broken cherry in high school broken cherry we thought we were clever we spelled it sherry c-h-e-r-i fucking hip, Dave. With a little heart over the eye. What kind of music was it? Covers like whatever was happening in 1981, 82, Cars, Rolling Stones, Clash, Eagles.

It's just like whatever we could get paid to play. But Widespread Panic started out, it was a song called Sleepy Monkey that I heard Mikey play in the guitar line too and I'm like this that's unique that and it pulled me in and I really liked John Bell and his the way he sort of just was. How'd you meet John Bell where was it? It's a mutual friend it was a friend Neil Becton who I met through other mutual friends from like English classes and he's like you got to go see my friend John Bell.

He does this thing up at Abbott's, a solo thing. And so I took my friend Horace and we went up to see John Bell at Abbott's. Probably 19, 18. Still living in the dorms. Still trying to be a journalist person. Yeah. And I remember thinking, you know, he was playing like all kinds of music. Grateful Dead, James Taylor, Spirit. You know, sort of a spirit yeah spirit you know that band yeah i know that sort of a

strange grab bag of of songs and and he would just sort of slip out of one song into another and then back into the previous song and i remember looking at my friend horace and going this guy kind of needs a band. You felt the potential. How old was he? Was he the same age as you? A couple years older than me. Him and Mikey were a couple years older than me. And it was just,

you know, we worked all these covers out and in doing so, we found out who we were and who we could be. And we went through a myriad of different drummers and actually recorded a single

of the song Coconut with a drummer named Joel Morris, who was a great guy, but he needed to make money. So was Coconut like one of your first songs? And it's the first song we recorded. Coconut, Space Wrangler, Sleepy Monkey, the song I mentioned earlier. What was the EP called? It was just a seven inch big hole. It was called Coconut Image and the B side was Monkey Image. And we called them images because they were shorter than we wanted them to be. We felt they were just images of the whole 18-minute jam song.

So you guys were jamming. You weren't worried about making three-minute songs? Or was that the focus? Or was it all about the live show? It was more about we didn't know how to end the song so we jammed it really yeah so that's what i want to we'll talk about the producer like how hard is it to write a bridge and how hard is it to write it an outro i mean like i feel i go through that same struggle as well like i feel like i write a really solid verse really solid chorus then get to the second verse and lyrically you you know, sometimes I get more stuck on that second verse or that bridge than I do on

like when, when it first comes together, like how is the gelling with new guys in the band and like learning where to each person had, had their position in the band. And was it, was it hard to like, or what did it just work gradually?

Like it just worked great. It was hard for me because there wasn't really a drummer for a lot of the times when it was a three piece. Oh shit. So we were together for a couple of years before we found Todd Nance, who gave up everything he had accumulated in his life and moved to Athens and joined us.

But- When did Sonny join? Sonny joined, I want to say like 1988 or 89. So you started in 86? We started in 85. I think our first gig was in 85. Where was it? Athens?

It was a A-frame house on a street called Waymonda Court. How big, how many people showed up? Probably 30. It was like a keg party. A bunch of people in tie-dye and flannel. So being a college band, like just being, having a band in college, was it serious or was it just like fun, just getting fucked up with band like just being having a band in college like was it serious or was just like fun just getting fucked up with your friends and just having a good time and just

playing exactly what it was i mean and to go back to your question about composing stuff we would just we just play and someone might play a wrong note and we'd be like somehow telepathically we'd all go to the wrong note and therefore it, it wasn't wrong. It was a bridge that happened. We just enjoyed playing together and the sound that it made, and we knew that we were going against the current. You know, REM was poised to be a huge national act. Yeah, REM. Okay, so what year was that when they started getting big? Well, I mean, they took a couple steps.

They were at the top of the heap. They were fully as big as U2. Oh, 88? When they got signed to Warner Brothers, they put out one record, the one with Orange Crush on it, and then they put out the record with Losing My Religion, and it was huge. Was there a lot of pressure?

Sold like 28 million copies. As an Athens band? Because that's a small town. No, there was no pressure because we weren't trying to sound like anything. That's the thing about Athens. I've said this a million times and I can't say that I coined the term, but Athens is like Mayberry on acid, especially in the era where the B-52s came from Athens and REM.

In the 80s, it was just a free-for-all. The art school was dominant. People could do whatever you wanted. Rent was cheap. There were big old Southern houses that a whole band and all of their particulars could move into and basically roll burritos and pay the rent. Did y'all live together? Yeah, we had a house on King Avenue. Where's that? It's just a couple blocks from downtown. Oh, so you're in the heat all the time. Yeah. We live next door to a city councilman.

We play every Monday night at the Uptown Lounge. And he didn't mind the noise, but he minded it when people started parking their cars on his sidewalk. And so did the cops. So when was it where you started seeing the growth in Athens? We're like, oh, shit, we have something here. I think it was, we went through this oh shit, we have something here. I think it was, we went through this turmoil. We had a female singer and her name was Kelly Jo Davis. She's actually married to the blues guitar player Tinsley Ellis now. Oh, wow. And it just wasn't

really working out like vibe wise. And so we went through this horrible thing of, should we fire her? What's going to, and you know, we had one close friend who was like, you're going to lose every fan you've got if you fire the girl. And we're like, but we can't hang. It's, you know, it ain't happening. And so we went through all that turmoil and finally fired her.

And then that night was the biggest crowd we'd ever had. I don't think it was because we fired her. It just happened to be that we were on this incremental growth arc. And because we played every Monday. And then we played the Thursday. Do you remember that show? What show was it?

It was another show at the Uptown Lounge where we must have played hundreds of times. Yeah. So was that the moment where you guys felt comfortable that we could do this? I don't think we ever felt comfortable that we could. We didn't stop long enough. You know, we had a our manager Sam Lanier showed up and he's like you guys realize that you know you can't just make all your money and go spend it on weed and food we're like what do you mean what more is there to life

and he's like well there's rent and what about your gear and how are you going to keep the car that you've been driving to Greenville and making and running. And so he helped us get our act together. But we played like 250 shows a year in those days. And, you know, and then for a long time. Regionally? Regionally. And we just kept pushing and pushing outward and meeting people. You know this gig.

Yeah, and I'm doing it now. Exactly. You pay your dues and you work and you meet people and you make fans one by one. Yeah, because it's unbelievable. Because how many years straight did you do 250 shows a year? and you work and you meet people and you make fans one by one. Yeah, because it's unbelievable. Because how, so how many years straight did you do 250 shows a year? I couldn't tell you because we don't think, I didn't stop to think about any of these things.

And I don't think any of us really did until someone decided it was a good idea to make a big deal out of our 25th anniversary. You know, and at that point, you're sort of forced to take, and I know for me, I was forced to sit back and answer questions that forced me to look, but it was like, bands that opened for us and friends of ours were selling millions of records or selling out arenas or even retiring.

And I think we all kind of felt like this is what we do. And that was the point, really. You know, it wasn't to make it, per se. It was to, like, play music together and have fun and not have to answer to the man and not have to have a job, really. You know, and we worked hard and we continued to have fun. And we managed to push through some really, really, you know, almost band-destroying kind of events some really really you know almost band destroying

kind of events like you know when your namesake and your lead guitar player and one of the principal songwriters dies of cancer yeah that's usually the end of the road yeah um but we didn't want it to be the end of the road we felt that we could still be viable and and now we've been a band somehow through the grace of god and the power of the music and the idea that we've worked on longer without him than we were with him. Yeah. I want to go about that. Like, Hauser was a big part of your thing, right? He was the sound. You know, the guitar for that era of the band was the sound. I remember someone flew down the road in a car with the window open and i heard just like one meow as the car zoomed by and i'm like that was hauser that's how recognizable his tone was oh my god you know and was that one of your best friends like how hard was that

we're brothers you know it was really hard um you know and brothers fight mikey and i fought a lot we didn't always see eye to eye. When we did, it was usually over something completely hilarious. Like what? Like just random stuff? Random stuff. It wouldn't be about the music you'd be fighting about? Oh, we'd fight about the music.

We'd never fight about anything other than the music. Oh, yeah. You know, but that's artistry and collaboration. You know, sometimes friction is how things are born. And sometimes a sweet, sweet friction is how things are born and sometimes sweet sweet collaboration is how things are born but we'd laugh about i remember one time he was reading the usa today and he's like did you know that they have burrowing nukes i said what the what are you talking about because they have nuclear warheads that will burrow into the ground and then explode like bunker busters. And he just leaned back and started laughing.

He's like, burrowing nukes. And I'm hung up sitting there thinking, so I can't even hide from these things underground. He's just laughing. You know what I mean? You know what I was about to do. I mean, are you neurotic about that kind of stuff? Are you like a neurotic person in general? No, but I have an amazingly loud inner scream.

I know you understand what I mean. I totally, I'm the same way. I just, I, you know, the way that I think you deal with it and you make friends. Yeah. You know, it took me a long time to deal with it and not make enemies. Yeah, that's true. You know, cause I'd push people away and I didn't necessarily want to be a part of something. Although that's what I wanted more than anything was to be a part of something. Do you think it's a commitment issue? No, I think it's a self-worth issue. So you knew what you were worth. I didn't know what I was worth. Okay, then explain that. How do you, all right, if you want more than anything to be a part of something, and you get invited to join something. However, everyone in that something sees that you kind

of got one. You're always looking for the exit because you're insecure. So I'd get asked to join things, but I didn't really feel like I belonged there. So I was always looking for the exit. And who wants to fully accept you when they know you're looking for a way to get out. People want to accept someone that is in it to win it 100%. And you understand, you lead a band. Yeah, man. That's why I wanted to ask you about this. I mean, you've had, what, four changes?

Four really solid changes in your band? Three or four, yeah. And how do you rebuild the chemistry? You just have to let it happen because... When you force it, it doesn't work? You can't force. You can't force. You can't force. You ever tried to make a soup and force it to work?

No. You just got to let it cook. Yeah. You know, you hope that the spices that you put in it will blend and it will be tasty. You know, it's, I see both sides of it having stepped into roles where, like in Government Mule, I was expected to play certain Alan Woody bass lines verbatim yeah there were others where I had to kind of stylistically go after his thing but there was freedom in what I played and

then there's others where I was welcome to be myself so having been through that as a bassist it was kind of easy for me to like help George or help Jimmy Herring step into Hauser's role and understand that. Yeah. How's it like under, as a bass player and being the meat and potatoes of a band, like you go into different ringleaders, like say like Warren or JB,

like what, how's that? How, how do you find the chemistry? Do you have to lock in with the drummer first? You feel like you have to lock in with the songwriter first? Kind of lock with the drummer. It's all about the groove.

You know, I mean, if the bass player and the drummer aren't unified and have a deep groove or at least a similar understanding of what's happening, it's going to sound like a car with a flat tire going down the road. Now, you know, the difference between Warren Haynes, Jay Maskus, John Bell, Jerry Joseph, and what they see out of a bass player or a rhythm section. Snyder too. They're all very different. You know, Snyder's very seldom had bands. He's had a couple of bands and he's had some sort of raucous rock bands that are fun, Eastside Bulldogs. But with Hard

Working Americans, he's just generally on cloud nine because he's never really imagined his songs with that kind of powerful rhythm section and background harmony singing behind him. So he's like, wow, this is amazing. JB is, he leads by letting people do what they want, you know, because he knows that in that soup, you can put all these spices with particular flavors in, but sooner or later, it's going to come into one unified flavor. He likes that. I think he really, he really digs the random aspect that comes with a new guy. There's some beauty in it. I love it. Whenever there's fresh blood in the band, I just, you know, it's a good hang. You get to know, I feel like a lot of about

being on the road and being with the same people in a in a metal box you know basically if it's a van or a bus you know it's you're gonna deal with deal with it all like how to keep chemistry for 35 years even through all the life stuff and like you you know, death in a band. It's like, it's honorable, man. It's really honorable. It's honorable, but think about this. What if it's necessary? Well, explain that. What if, I mean, humans are meant to struggle.

You know, creativity is born out. Some people will say it's born out of pain. Some will say it's born out of friction, fire. I think certain laziness comes when things get really comfortable. And so maybe just when you're getting lazy and you're kind of feeling successful and something really horrible happens that forces you to take a look at do you want to continue to do this? What's it going to take to continue to do it? It's going to be completely different.

Can we work with that? I think humans need that sort of thing. I mean, I'm not saying that the death of a band member is a good thing, but the resulting examination of how did we get there and where do we go from here if we want to comes in. And I think that's good for art. Because it was, what, 2002?

It was 2002 when that happened. it's 2002 on the top of your shit there we were cooking we were cooking and it happened fast for him yeah it was pancreatic cancer so how long did you take a hiatus after that or did you just keep going we he actually left in the middle of a tour and we needed to finish it we were prepared for it it was it was he wanted it that way you know i'm I'm sure it was really, really difficult for him to set it up, you know, because it was, the band was named after him. Yeah.

So to like share that experience was humbling. And it was frightening at the same time to walk out at Summerfest in Milwaukee on the big shed stage. Shit. And deal with these fans. And they walk in and it's like, that's not Hauser's rig. That's George McConnell's rig. So, you know, but we had a lot of support and- How hard were those first, that first tour without him?

Fucking hard, man. Was it just emotionally hard? Like it was- You name it. It was, it was just, I think in times of trauma like that, there's part of us, I mean, for me, I was concerned with Mikey. I mean, that was, with pancreatic cancer, there's a shelf date. And he was too sick to stay on the road even for another week and a half or however long that tour lasted. He had to go home.

And so there's that and then at the same time there's the trauma of we got to do this you know it was almost superhuman to get through and it was superhuman of the fans to come out and support us was he was he pushing you guys to keep going to he had mentioned that yeah i mean you know that was like i, it was humbling. Yeah. You know, I don't know how I would feel faced with a prognosis like that. Yeah, and to be totally, like, because the road and music, you guys were his life. Like, I mean, I'm assuming that's where he was happiest,

or I don't know the band chemistry in 2000, 2002, but you guys were cooking. We were cooking. So when you're cooking, you're not really thinking about the – well, you're not really thinking about the – are you thinking about the friendship or are you thinking about just, all right, we have – we're playing for 20,000 people a night, whatever, 10,000 people.

I don't know how many people you were playing for during then. Is it hard to still be their friends too? Well, you know, for me, it definitely changes things when you know your brother's dying. Yeah. And it's the first time that that had ever happened. You know, I mean, sure. In your life in general?

Grandparents, long, slow. Yeah. You know, most of the friends that i had that were taken from this plane were taken quickly like car accident or something you know this was it wasn't a long slow slide for him but it was painful and wasting and he chose not to see chemo type treatment you know so it was it was pretty quick because pancreatic cancers yeah no that's tough one yeah um and i couldn't even i didn't deal with it well you know for myself who dealt who dealt with it the worst you know i don't know i mean that's part of the thing about that just barreling ahead yeah concept is that it's hard to talk. I mean, it's hard to talk about it.

You know, after Bruce Hampton died on stage at the Fox at his birthday celebration, I was there. John Bell was there. Jimmy Herring. Was Vince there? Herman? Was Vince there? Yes, I think he was. I talked about him about this, I think.

You know, but we had to do that. We had a day off and then we had three festival gigs, Jazz Fest, Memphis, and somewhere in Florida. And it's like all we could talk about, but we weren't talking about how we felt about it yet. And, you know, just between John Bell and Jimmy Herring and Dwayne Trucks, everybody deals with it in their own ways. Totally. I had a long talk with George Porter, who recently lost his wife. A beautiful, beautiful soul. I heard about that.

It's fucking horrible. And I wanted to talk to him. He's always been like a father figure to me. A base father figure and just one of the sweetest gentlemen and funkiest motherfuckers you'll ever meet. Oh, my God. I want to go back to George. Let me hear this story.

And, you know, just talking about how there's no correct way to mourn someone that you, the loss of someone you love, to someone who, they were married for 50 years. You know, Mikey and I, we were young adults and we cruised into adulthood together. He had kids. Mourning is tough and it's different for everybody.

And I think for me and the people that I've lost, it's different per the person who has passed. And so George is like, the way I'm dealing with it is I'm sleeping more than I've ever slept in my life. And I'm like, that's okay that's how you mourn i uh i didn't feel like i truly mourned bruce i was having a hard time with it talked about it with a lot of people but at that festival trondasa that we put on in charleston yeah two three weeks ago we played his song trondasa and i completely wiped out in the middle of it because it's just something about playing that song and we had played it the night he passed away at the Fox and not touched it since that was the song you guys played when he passed no we were all playing love light yes but we had played that song

Thrawn Dassa yeah but it hit me on stage in Charleston. And it was very celebratory, you know. We named this festival after him, after this song, and tried to, like, build into it the sort of intent that Colonel Bruce would have wanted. But it just, I was crying. And I was like, so this is what it took for me to mourn Bruce Hampton was, like, almost a year and a half. The release.

And it came. And I was so happy that it did. I felt, you know, it's hard to do. But enough of this darkness in your podcast. Let's get back to happy, skippy, fun land. Yeah, man. I just, because I'm dealing with this and I deal with this, I suppress my feelings.

So like to hear, you know, like with my band and stuff i've been with my band now 12 years where we've been together for you know eight years straight doing 250 shows a year and you're grinding and you're grinding and you know everyone goes through their mental things and their states of mind and it's just really fascinating um you know we're not alone in it everyone deals with it doesn't matter if you're in a band, if you're married to someone, it's still the human nature to mourn when you need to mourn. That's right. We were on tour with this band from Chicago called Freddie Jones Band back in the mid-90s. And it's like a 40-show tour. And literally on the second or third to last show, we were at the House of Blues in LA.A. on the Sunset Strip, and their drummer, Simon, got word that his dad had passed away.

And, you know, they offered him, you know, Todd offered to play drums for them that night if Simon wanted to get it. He said, I want to play drums for my dad tonight. And he killed it. You know, you hear stories like that. And, you know, I just don't know how I would deal with that. stories like that and i you know i just don't know how i would deal with that but uh you know we all get to that point and we all have to sort of deal that's our part of being human as we continue yeah exactly you know it's like i had these epiphanies too uh when i'm i was just hitting it too hard doing too many drugs you know having sex with too many random girls.

And I just started getting anxiety ridden. I would just suppress my feelings. And the minute you keep suppressing it, it's just going to keep overflowing until you have to release it. You have to. And we're really lucky as musicians because that is a prescribed way to release it. Yeah, totally. I feel like you do. You have this thing that you do.

It's an extraordinarily endearing thing. You walk a fine line of sharing your burdens with the audience and then somehow converting it to a celebration. And that's what it is. I mean, let's look at a New Orleans funeral. Yeah, exactly. Isn't that perfect? An Irish wake.

Yeah, exactly. That's what Hauser wanted. He requested an Irish wake. No way. So we had an Irish wake. It's amazing. It is halftime at the Ennefresco interview hour. Here's a quick message from the U.N.

Howdy, folks. This is Vince Herman from Leftover Salmon. You're listening to the news with Vinny. First, man, I got to get in the shower. I feel dirty just thinking about what's going on out there. See you in a minute. News with Vinny! News

with Vinny! Let's hear it, Vinny! Taking a break from the frasco world. I'm going to catch you up with what's happening out in the real world. I like things like Swiss cheese has holes in it, but in Colorado, woo buddy! Schools have got 700 million dollars in tax money since pot went legal

in 2014. Statistics showing that opioid use goes down when pot becomes legal. But, uh, uh, down there in, uh... UFOs are real. And, uh, that about sums it up. What's up for this week? Oh, oh, one more thing. We're fucked. Let's get into bass. I want to know why you play a six string bass in a rock and roll band well because i like goddamn phil lesh okay tell me about it tell me about it i like phil lesh he's not a i mean i would never pattern myself after him in any way because to do so would be to do a disservice to the way he's lived his musician life as an improviser and he's classically trained and he's an extraordinarily well-developed harmony

mind jimmy harry says he's the most harmonically advanced musician he's ever met and you know because the dead formed during this acid cultural revolution they They wanted to experiment. So how many bands do you see where the rhythm guitar player plays like McCoy Tyner's left hand? The guitar player is usually playing either banjo lines or bass lines until he solos like an opera singer. The bass player is playing French horn parts that are slowed down. And the two drummers are playing in polyrhythms that add up to 11. But they were able to do that.

Were they doing it on purpose? Yeah, because it was all about freedom and experimentation. You know, rock and roll wasn't a big moneymaker yet. Peter Grant hadn't found out how to make money off of touring with Led Zeppelin. The business was very, very different. And the dead were the prototypical punk rockers. They didn't give a shit.

You know, they liked the money they could make because it meant they could get better gear to make their music sound better. It was all about the experience of them being free to create music in the moment. And that's where people get screwed up. They want to make music for the purpose of having a castle in France or to have

a private jet or to be able to bang bitches and drink Cristal, whatever. But the dead were enjoying this freedom. And how many bass players that are classically trained like Phil Lesch wouldn't get bored playing country music, electric jug band, but there's that freedom. Yeah. You know, and I've done an interview with him before where he, I asked him about preparations for a show and he said, basically asking whatever powers that be to allow him to be an open channel. Open vessel. An open vessel, but that's their trip. You know, I mean.

Were you guys that fine tuned as a band to be an open vessel like that? their trip you know i mean were you guys that fine-tuned as a band to be an open vessel like that or were you guys planned like you knew you're going to jam this part you know where it's going to move to you like were you guys more meticulous about the jams or is it like your open vessel as well like i think we were more of a like mind to just allow places for freedom of expression and interaction. I don't know that it was so carefully plotted because in the 80s, there was this thing called Slack. Yeah. And we loved Slack, you know, to be- Explain Slack to the people who don't know what Slack is. I guess Slack is just, it's a way of life. It's like, you know, I don't want to

do what you tell me. There's a lot of that. I don't want to have a job. I want to be able to get by to the point of where I can be comfortable. Like, I don't need a fancy couch. I just need one that isn't flea ridden. Okay, I'll take the flea ridden one. Because I want to lay down and be slack. I want to smoke weed. I want to drink beer.

I want to hang with my pals. And I want to play music. Isn't that rock and roll? That's rock and roll. So when did that change? When did that stop in this music? This is what I'm trying to understand. Is this one of your larger things?

My larger thing that I can't get over. Like when did rock and roll stop becoming like slack, as you say, and more meticulous? It's MTV and it's money because MTV was selling a uniform and a way of life. And even if you go back to Frank Zappa's record, he would say, even those of you who are wearing what you think is incredibly unique, you're wearing a uniform. They were peddling a lifestyle that included rock and roll, a certain way that you dress, a certain look. I mean, one of my wife's sayings is, you've got a real face for radio. Well, MTV ruined that. Yeah, it's true. Because there were very few of those 70s era bands that, especially if they were in their

middle age, when MTV came around, that looked good enough. It's probably why Peter Cetera became the big deal in Chicago as opposed to the other incredibly killer songwriters that were in that band. He looked good and he sang the weepy ballads. He was getting all the pussy. He was.

For sure. So that's curious because when you're making a studio record, have you had any major singles from any studio records with Panic? No.

Because you've sold three million records, right? Or more now, I don't know. I don't even know. We don't really pay attention to that. We just- I fucking love you, Dave. We just wanted to be able to continue to do what we liked. I think that's winning in this day and age.

It's not about what you can show off on social media. You know, sometimes I pick up social media and I just see desperation to be noticed. And I don't see any actual context or sub knowledge to be gained from some kid throwing money at the camera. Look at how many sponsors I got. Look at how many likes I got. I'm like, yeah, but are you really happy? Are you delivering anything to the world that means anything? Are you going to actually change someone's life

for the better when they come across that video of you doing that? You know, and a lot of young people I know, and I'm talking like, you know, adolescents. I got a daughter, she's 14. She's incredibly artistic and they'll put the phones down. They don't care.

They're like, you know, we feel bad when we see that stuff. I don't feel bad. I just see desperation. I see trying too hard. And that is the antithesis of Slack is trying too hard. So do you think people are more worried about what other people think about them now, not worrying about what they think about themselves? Well, that's a part of it.

I mean, you can't always be a successful artist if you're giving everybody the finger. Although there are those that are attracted to that, and some people like the rebel. But I think if you're in business, and you have to consider the business because you want to maintain the Slack lifestyle. and you have to consider the business because you want to maintain the Slack lifestyle. So at some point, you have to sort of look at how your business is doing. Like, what's selling? I mean, I'm not saying making music is like selling shoes.

No. But there is instant feedback generally given at every concert. It's called applause. Yeah. Or people aren't talking when you play a quiet song. You know know they're wrapped yeah um but there's so much it's so subjective man i mean you know we can talk about the modern business and you and i have talked about this a lot in the studio and i talk with

everybody about it in the studio because they're all like whatever happened to that formula that there used to be well there really hasn't ever a formula. There was a pipe dream that was sold to easily exploitable musicians and artists by record companies that had three sets of books. One for the IRS, one for themselves, and one for the artist. You know, I think there is no formula. You make it yourself, and things have changed to where there aren't so many gate gatekeepers and you get to do what you want to do with your band you know i think and i heard jerry joseph say this when he was being inducted into the oregon music hall of fame was like i think it's it would be exciting to be a young musician selling cds that they make themselves because they like them out of the trunks of their vans or their cars or beer crates on stage,

getting to meet their fans face-to-face one by one. One of my heroes is Mike Watt from the Minutemen. Yeah. And you should have him on this podcast. He's wild. He's just, he's an avatar. Yeah. And he calls the base a thunder broom, which I love.

But Minutemen, Firehose, big influences on indie rock and everything. But if you wanted to buy a t-shirt or if you wanted to meet Mike Watt, you had to stick around after the show and he would pull them out of a garbage bag on stage. And if you wanted to meet him and say hi, you better buy a t-shirt yeah but you got to meet mike watt yeah and those guys did they would do tours that were like 70 shows in 72 days around north america twice you know he called it touring econo but they worked hard and i think that builds character i think a lot of bands see the chance to make money they get a lot of followers on social media they hope for something to happen but they don't necessarily put the hard work in and that's where the substance comes from

and there's a lot of substance lacking and that's why things kind of explode get real popular and then they're never heard from again yeah i'm not saying that you know there's always been one hit wonders and flash in the pan but you know you guys are working your asses off yeah you're in that sprinter van you're driving working with you in the studio you have such a family vibe you know you you got people that your tour manager is going out and buying groceries and cooking a feast for everybody. Yeah. Instead of let's all take a two hour break and go spend $3,000 on bullshit. We can't afford. That's going to make us soggy lumps for the evening session.

That's a, that's how you do it, man. Okay. We're going to go into your producing world. I just want to have one more question. Is there a formula to, you say there's no formula and i totally agree with you

on that but is there a formula for a set where you i mean you have a lot of pressure not playing the same songs yeah but we got 300 songs oh yeah so never mind let's go back to producing then that's great i can't believe 300 well 30 that makes sense there's a lot of covers a lot of things we've only played once or twice but do you have like a list like okay we played uh we played this song in you know in the same town two years ago we're not playing the song again do you guys if i was trying to teach how we do this to a an artificially intelligent machine yeah there are several fields you know that the machine would have to consider like you said did we play it in the town we're in tonight the last time we were here that might strike it did we play it last

night or the night before that might strike it and then there are the considerations of is it fast is it slow what key is it in who sings it you know is it a new song that we maybe should wrap two familiar songs around to give it a fighting chance with the audience? Or are we doing, are we stacking the front of the show with too many big songs? You know, there's all these fields to consider. Who writes a set list? Lately, it's been, John Bell's been sort of the keeper of the what did we play last. And he will deliver a set list.

And then me and Dwayne and JoJo will sort of sit down with the songs and arrange them. We'll consider the key and the beat and the drum groove and who's singing it. And it works well. It's always collaborative. We used to take hour-long set breaks because me and Mike and JB and Todd and JoJo and Sonny would be sitting in the dressing room doing whatever bands do in the dressing room at set break. Trying to come up with what to play. And the poor tour manager is like banging us over the head with his watch. We need to go.

What are you doing? The set break has been longer than the first set. We're like, but we got to get this just right, man. It's perfect. Yeah, I mean, you're a perfectionist of your craft, and as you should be. You've been doing it for so long that, like, what else is there to do?

Perfection is tough. There's an old song, and I got to remind JB about it. I'm not sure if he wrote it or Mikey wrote it. What song? We never recorded it. We didn't play it much. It was called Perfection Breeds Insanity. You know, if you're going around chasing perfection

or the idea of whatever perfect is when you're dealing with six mopes on stage and you know monitors and the sound of the room and an audience and you don't know whether they're drunk or on acid you know it's like perfection is in the eye of the beholder and it's fleeting if it happens at all oh my god all right enough about widespread we talked about it but let's talk about producing because we were before we press play on this uh recording system you were glowing about about just like helping bands out and producing is that like your new joy in life like tell me about what what what you get out of producing like not like financially more like heartfelt like what do you what do you love about it you know I I love every aspect of

music and to like be part of something where it's being created and being recorded and people are happy with it is awesome and you know it just started back started back, it was probably 1993, my friends in this band called Hayride asked me to produce a record. And I called up Johnny Sandlin, who had just produced a Panic record for Capricorn. And I said, oh my God, Johnny, these friends of mine want me to produce their record. Where do I start? What do I do? And he goes, well, Dave, I'll tell you what. art what do i do and he goes well dave i'll tell you what from my experience if you hear anything that you can't live with fix it you know and it's like okay so there's some nuts and bolts ideas of how to produce you know make sure that there's nothing that slips by when in doubt recut it yeah you know sometimes you got to deal with an artist that wants to fix

everything to the point of perfection you know so then you get this tightrope walk of do we sacrifice the vibe and the feel for the correctness of the thing or do we let some stuff slip slide around that's a little questionable but god that track feels great you know and it just depends you know i get i get a participation of another part of the craft of making music that has always been laid off on someone else you know in widespread panic we like having an outside guy because that's also part of producing it's like sometimes you gotta settle an argument the guitar player and the singer are fighting over what's what's better and that's my next question. Turmoil.

How do you get the vibe? Have you ever dealt with a band walking into a studio with the band? You don't tell the band, but they're dealing with turmoil internally with the band. And how do you have to get the band out of the turmoil to make the best product you can? Isn't that the job of a producer? Absolutely. It's to distill the essence of the artist so that it comes out and it's obvious. But turmoil is tough. I mean, sometimes you can deal with it with comedy. Pretty much that would

be my favorite way is to just make light of whatever it is because whatever it is, we're trying to make music that's fun to listen to. if you guys want to continue to do that you know go outside and beat each other up and then make up because you guys are band members so i know how brothers do you know beat each other up have a shot of whiskey come back in and let's have some fun each other up during the session no i've never seen an actual physical altercation i have seen some awkward awkward awkward moments. Like what? Like what? Let's not talk about the awkward moments. I mean, I've been the reason for some of them, but I wasn't producing that session. Yeah, totally. I mean, like I said, it took me a long time just to learn how to be the best me. And I'm always learning that. But part of producing actually gets me closer to that every time. To be able to deal with turmoil,

I'll tell you about a situation where I was so proud of Jerry Joseph. He wanted to cut this song called Fog of War that's 15 minutes long. And it requires a lot of listening from the band. And it was one of those things where we will only do one take of it. It will be the last thing we do at the end of the night.

And if we don't get it, we might not even try it the next night. We'll wait because it was such a thing. And I could see him building up and starting to think about it. And I kind of wanted him to think about it. We moved amps. And the other guys were teaching the fourth guitar player guy how the song goes. And they finally cut it. And they nailed it. One take. End of the night. They came back in. were teaching the fourth guitar player guy how the song goes and they finally cut it and they

nailed it one take end of the night they came back in and we played it back in the control room and jerry stood there at the console listening and listened all the way through nobody said a word and when the last note faded away he looked at his band and he said gentlemen that was the greatest example of listening and self-control i've ever heard. And I want to thank you for taking that ride with me. And I was just like, wow, that's how you lead a band. So when I see something like that go down, it's something that I can absorb and use. It's what is this song supposed to be? With you guys, with Andy Frasco and the UN, it was like, what are we trying to accomplish?

You know, I would ask you, what's the vibe of this song? Who are you singing to? Are you heartbroken? Are you over it? Are you angry? Are you sad? Do you go through a change in the course of the song? And how can you sell that as a vocalist?

Yeah, you've really helped me out to calm my brain down where it's like, I'm very anxious and I'm ADD as hell. And I'm always thinking about the end concept sometimes. And especially in the studio when you're just grinding it out and grinding. Now you're envisioning the end when you're supposed to be envisioning what you're doing right now. Right. The journey is the destination. Exactly. And you've taught me so much about that in the studio. I used to be so stressed out. This was the first, well, first, this was our first producer we've ever had. You. Wow. So I love you for that. Thank you for giving us that confidence. And, uh, you know, and it was, it was more of trusting the other ears in the room. Cause why are you going

to pay someone if you're not going to take their advice that's right man i got one last question for you i'm going to see how many other musicians you're going to piss off with this one um dream band dead and alive you could pick your band anyone in the world okay if i answer this question will you answer my question of a similar nature yes okay so my band can be comprised of both dead and living musicians? Wow. Now, does it have to be a good band or is it just supposed to be fun for me? Whatever you want, man.

I want to have fun. Then it's a fun band. So I want two drummers. I want Keith Moon and John Bonham. Oh, shit. I want two dead drummers, first of all, okay? Some balls right there. And then I want...

God, it's so weird, but... Would you play bass? Well, can I produce this band? Yeah, whatever you want. It's your world. I want to play bass. Sorry, John Entwistle. You're going to have to step aside.

I'm going to play bass. Wait a minute. You can play lead bass, and I'll just hold it down. Okay, so me and John Entwistle, along with Keith Moon and John Bonham. So we have four rhythm. We have a double rhythm section. Keep going.

The dub reggae is coming through. Dub reggae, baby. Okay, so, and then I really, I want Dwayne Allman on guitar. Singing? Singing. God, this is crazy. fucking love greg allman but i also love charday oh yes wow that's a i want a powerfully sensitive band to seduce young lovers

because lovemaking should be it should be seductive. And then at some point, you got to have Keith Moon and John Ponem just jackhammering you. Oh, yeah, for sure. Okay, so that's a pretty good band. And I am a big fan of prog rock, and yes, I think Rick Wakeman's still alive. But since this is a living and dead band, I'm going to say Rick Wakeman on keyboards.

He was one of, he looked good in a cape. He wore sparkly capes when he played. The show was sick. What about horns? Would you add horns? Oh, boy, yeah. Horns. Memphis horns.

Of course. Memphis horns. Yeah. Sick. And, you know, if I could have maybe like Johnny Mercer, where he liked rock and roll, writing lyrics, you know, to get back to that thing about songwriting and collaboration. If Johnny Mercer actually didn't hate the Beatles

and liked rock and roll, and I can call him for it. He hated the Beatles. I didn't know that. He started Capitol Records. Did you know that? No. Johnny Mercer started Capitol Records

and Capitol was the Beatles label here in the US. And he did not like rock and roll. He didn't like the Beatles. I mean, this is the guy that wrote Moon River and Jeepers Creepers. Where'd you get them peepers? That makes sense. But if he liked rock and roll,

it would be cool to see what kind of lyrics he'd write. Oh, seriously? So we've got double drummers of Keith Moon and John Bonham. This band sounds, the after parties of this band, God. We won't survive the after parties. Everybody in this band will be dead after the first gig, including myself. So John Bonham, Keith Moon, me and John Hentwistle on bass at the same time. Then we have Dwayne Allman on guitar, Rick Wakeman on keyboards.

And we have, did we have a singer? Sade singing and Greg Allman and then Johnny Mercer writing lyrics. Unbelievable. Sounds like a super band to me. Now here's my question for you. Bring it. You want to have a nice brunch

with three people, living or dead. Who are the other three people that you're having brunch with? Besides you, Dave. You really know how to butter my bread, don't you? Shit. I go philosophers. I do Alan Watts.

I love Alan Watts. I do Osho, too. I think Osho. Did you like that documentary? Fucking love that documentary. See, I have my views on that. I felt like any spiritual, because I was listening to Osho.

I didn't know this fool was fucking brajules and having orgies and stuff. That was crazy. But all my teachings was Osho-based. I love Osho. So I do Osho. I do Watts, Alan Watts. And I think I do Sinatra.

Or I do, because I don't think James Brown would give me the time of day. I think Sinatra would sit me down and tell me what's up. He'd talk about the way you wear your hat. Exactly. It's all about the way you wear your hat. That's a good lunch. What about you? My lunch, it's kind of interesting, and I've pondered it a lot.

But Betty White. Betty White Betty Betty White she was banging she's still around I know but she's still hilarious she's hilarious oh yeah yes she did okay so what what years would this be like oh it doesn't matter because in this space of uh wonderment everybody is sort of at their best perfect with their minds fully attuned I get that which is going to work for you with Alan Watts and Osho. Yeah. So it's Betty White, it's Prince, and it's Bill Hicks. Hicks.

I'm missing a comedian. Hicks would be dope. He was more of a philosopher than he was a comedian. Oh my God. He was brilliant. If he was around for this Trump era, I think he'd stop being funny. Because he stopped being funny during the first Bush era. Reagan was funny to him, but then it got to be

where it wasn't funny because that was 12 years of the same regime. And when he had cancer, he stopped being funny too. Yeah, he was just, it was satire. Yeah. Which wasn't necessarily, it was more like commentary on society, but I think Bill without the cancer and without Bush being president although i gotta

say trump being president does yield a whole lot of distraction some of it's pretty funny some of it's disappointing but it is just distraction yeah totally um yeah hicks hicks philosopher king and comedian and betty white part of gold hilarious and then prince because he's so fucking weird yeah who really knew the guy nobody knew the guy i want to know the guy when he's relaxed having brunch because it's cantaloupe yeah it's not what is it the simpsons is not quite breakfast it's not quite lunch but it comes with a slice of cantaloupe oh dave i could talk to you for hours buddy we will we'll do it again can we do this could we keep doing this like sure let's make this a tradition you know every time i'm in town let's think of a topic i mean i just want to say

thank you i mean you've helped my you don't understand how much you've helped my career really um like really it seems all i do is confuse you but you do rock no you emotionally yes you confuse the shit out of me it keeps you easy that keeps you very pliable but i think but that's that's the sign of a good friendship. You know? Like you want to test each other. You want to grow with each other. You know?

It's like the people are just being yes-mans and like… They're not real friends. You know? Like I want to get to know someone. And I want to like have a… You know? Brunch. You know?

Brunch? It's for friends. And it comes with a slice of cantaloupe I'll do brunch with you anytime I love you Dave Schools I fucking love you buddy

thank you so much I fucking love you too Andy Fresco we're looking eye to eye from these microphones and we just made a good solid man hand contact so

you got anything to promote you want to promote anything I want to promote everyone being happy and I think I fucking love you save the world if you listen to this podcast.

Andy Fresco and Yeti, world-saving podcast with Dave Schools coming at you. And that's a wrap. Wrap it up. Hey, Schwartz. Hey, man. Congrats. Blue Delta's on board to sponsor the podcast. Please make a post or two.

Thank them. Tag them. And let's be serious about it. It's important. We need sponsors. Don't fuck it up. Congrats. Later. And now, a message from our sponsor. Ever wear a pair of blue jeans and then make your balls and dick sweat down your leg?

Like your junk is wearing a permanent turtleneck, gasping for air every time you take a piss? Maybe it's time to switch to Blue Delta jeans. Give your hog a day off from sticking to the side of your leg. Blue Delta Jeans, let your meat breathe. As I sit on the edge of this never made bend. Old guitar in my lap, a new tune in my head. She stands in the doorway just brushing her hair It's my beautiful muse in her underwear And if I was thinking, I'd be thinking

Thank God, whoever you are For the muse in this old guitar In times like these, so sweet and so true There you have it. Dave Schools. Another episode rounding up. I learned so much from him. That's right.

When I met him in Bend, Oregon, I knew we were going to be friends for a long time. I wasn't even into his music at first. I didn't get it until I saw him live and I saw the experience. I get it now. Love you, Dave. Thanks for being on the show.

But that's it. That's all I got for you. Had to do this ending by myself. Yeti had to take care of some business. But find us on Instagram, Frasco and Yeti. What's going on with me? Tomorrow we leave for Europe. We're playing with the Foo Fighters,

the Muse, Gorillas, and Meshuggah, and taking back Sunday. It's my middle school dreams all happening at once. That's in Germany. And then we're going back to festival season, flying straight to New York City.

And playing Mountain Jam and Taste of Randolph and Electric Forest. So I'll get some interviews in there. We'll get some more people in there. I'm going to take a week off because Europe is hard to fucking edit and find internet

because it's like six years behind technology wise of internet over there but love you guys thanks for believing in this show we made it to the top 50 again for more days in a row

not just the day I got downloaded so fuck yeah you're spreading the word thank you so much and that's it I love you I love this podcast I love you. I love this podcast.

I love Yeti. I love my fan base. Thank you for believing in me and thank you for keeping this, keeping on. Love you guys. Be safe and don't forget to comb your hair. Thank you for listening to episode nine

of Andy Fresco's World Saving Podcast with Yeddy. Produced by Andy Fresco, Yeddy and Chris Lawrence. Please subscribe and rate the show on iTunes and Spotify so we can make this a worldwide phenomenon. For info on the show, please head to our Instagram at frescoandyeddy. For more info on the blog and tour dates, head to andyfresco.com. For more information on our guests, David Schoels, head to widespreadpanic.com. Our sponsor for the week is Blue Delta Jeans. For more info, head to bluedeltajeans.com.

We also got special guests for this week. Sean Eccles, Andy Avila, Brian Swartz, Vince Herman, and Arno Bakker. We will be back. Hey, Andy. Dave Schools calling. Hey, Andy, Dave Schools calling. Look, I know that it feels like we had a really good interview for your podcast yesterday, but, you know, I feel really bad because I've slept on it. And, well, you know, I'm good with everything we talked about, but I think you should know that there were some white lies, you know, some socially

acceptable white lies, some half-truths, and yeah, the vast majority of everything I said was a humdinger of a lie, completely bald-faced lying. You know, how I was able to sit there and just spew these total untruths into the microphone while staring you right in the face, gives me pause. You know, I need to think about myself, my own character, and, you know, if you're going to broadcast all of these lies that I told you, I think you need to sit down and think about what it means for yourself as a human being. But anyway, hey man, I'm good with lying. It's all cool. Let's save the world.