Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - EP 96: MC Taylor (Hiss Golden Messenger)

Episode Date: August 18, 2020

Andy wants to know: are you being responsible with your woodland psychedelic sabbaticals? On the Interview Hour we welcome Mike (MC) Taylor from Hiss Golden Messenger! Mike is brilliant and Andy takes full advantage of their time together by prying the depth of his worldview with a range of topics from the evolution of masculinity, education, and of course: MUSIC. We close out with Robyn Caywood from Kamu Labs to talk about CBD and the science based merits of plant derived wellness. This is EP 96 Check out our upcoming livestream Aug 21st & 22nd! Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For more information on Andy Frasco, the band and/or the blog, go to: AndyFrasco.com Check out Andy's new album, "Keep On Keepin' On" on iTunes Spotify  Follow MC Taylor at www.hissgoldenmessenger.com Don't miss out on Kamu Labs!  Produced by Andy Frasco Joe Angelhow Chris Lorentz Audio mix by Chris Lorentz Featuring: Brian Schwartz Shawn Eckels  Andee Avila Arno Bakker

Hey, it's Schwartz. It's Monday. I hope you're well. I know we don't normally talk on Mondays, but I've been thinking about this all weekend long. We did a call with potential partners on the shit show last Thursday evening. And I love how genuine you are, and I love how you get along with everybody and how positive and upbeat you are when we get on the phone with potential new partners. It was really a great conversation. You were really articulate and certainly, you know, helped our case. That said, when the subject of mushrooms came up and you suggested sending them a box of mushrooms or whatever, a package, um, yeah, I,

so I rinsed and, and, and it was a little bit off putting, and I would encourage you to please just, you know, save the drugs up to, to your peers or your friends or whoever. Okay.

Business is business. Drugs are drugs. Let's keep them separate. And we're live. Kind of. Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasco. How's everyone doing today?

Feeling good? How's your heart? How's our minds? Are we staying out of the fucking trouble? Do I have to put on this fucking Rocky music every week? Are we focused on the now people present minds make happy fucking hearts. It's made that up, but that sounded pretty tight. Um, Hey, what's up? You feeling good? How's the, how's the world treating

you today? Don't, um, don't feel like the world's on your shoulders. You know, we got to focus in on ourselves because we can't make anyone else happy before we make ourselves happy. So go fucking find yourself. Go fucking take some drugs if you got to. Go hallucinate in the fucking woods. That's what I did this weekend.

Went to my buddy's birthday party. You couldn't come in. We got this private house in Breckenridge and we couldn't go into the house unless we showed them our COVID negative test results. And it was completely responsible. Felt really proud of ourselves. We were responsible as fuck, and that's what we're talking about. Brought some 14er weed out there for the gang.

Shout out to 14er. Thanks for bringing party favors. Let's go. Thank you, boys. Thank you. But go grab some if you're in the Colorado area. They're in Boulder. It's fun stuff.

Good stuff. Clean. Not too psychoactive. It's perfect. You know how I am with that psychoactive weed. So go grab that. But yeah, it's been a fun week. psychoactively. So go grab that. But yeah, it's been a fun week just promoting this

live stream experience we're trying to do for the festival. The festival's this week, guys, August 21st, 22nd. It's digital. It's 100% interactive. You pick the story that the band wants to go on. When I mean story, it's anything you want. You get to pick every song. We'll have a polling. You could pick the drugs we take. We'll have a big-ass green screen. You could pick the background, everything. We have sit-ins. We have four sit-ins each night that you get to pick from.

If you hear, like, you like this song, ooh, I want Vince Herman on this song, you could pick that to side quest. We got a lot of great sit-ins. I just confirmed them. I'll on this song. You could pick that to side quest. We got a lot of great sit-ins. I just confirmed them. I'll keep them secret. You'll know Vince, but we got some great ones. So go grab tickets. They're nine bucks. It's only nine bucks a show. It's like going out. I know it's hard to fucking be in our houses on the weekends, but support the cause. be in our houses on the weekends,

but support the cause. August 21st and 22nd. This is one of the only ways I could, I'm able to pay the band for the, for the spring, not the spring, the fall. Everyone's flying in.

We get to play, keep on keeping on in its entirety. If you want, I mean, you're voting for it. I hope you do. Cause I love the new record. Go listen to it.

Give yourself, go listen to the catalog, the Frasco catalog. And if you want to hear some songs we haven't played in years, fucking tell me. And we will put it on the list and then you will pick. So we got three hours of music each night, two sets.

We got sketches. We got comedy. We got a stay-at-home dance party. We got the whole nine. So I'm not one who likes to pitch things too heavy, you know, because I don't want to feel ungenuine, but I'm really proud of this project we did. And it's my baby brainchild, and I hope we are going to fucking kill it.

But let's just sell some tickets and go get it and go support the band. Help me take care of the boys. So that's it for that. We got Mike motherfucking Taylor from His Golden Messenger on the show. I love him. He wrote one of the songs off the new album, actually. Long way to go. Me and Mike got stuck in a studio. When I say studio, it was the Brooklyn Bowl green room. And we wrote a song together. We were both in New York at the same time. Great guy. We talk about life. He's just very influential to me to try to be a good person every day and try to write art that matters and that can be forever. So with that being said, let's start the fucking show. Ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for my boy, Mike Taylor. And then at the end,

we're talking to a doctor, ladies and gentlemen. I call her a doctor because she's like the CBD queen. We got Robin Kaywood closing the show. She's with Camu Labs, one of our partners on the World Saving Podcast and Shit Show. We're going to talk Camu Labs. one of our partners on the World Saving Podcast and Shit Show. We're going to talk Camu Labs. We're going to talk about CBD and the misunderstanding of CBD and how these products are fucking badass. I'm telling you, they are bad to the fucking bone. Camulabs.com. Go check it out.

So 14er Weed, Cannabis, 14erBoulder.com, and CamuLabs.com. Go check it out. All right, guys. Let's start the show. You ready? I'm ready. All right. Here we go. All right. Next up on the interview hour, we have Mike Taylor, MC Taylor, his golden messenger, one of my favorite songwriters other than John Craigie. The man is such a lyricist and he's so thoughtful and he's just inspiring to be around because he's always looking after for public schools and always looking after the wellbeing of humans. Hey, Chris, play some, play some hiss while we're, while I'm pimping them out a little bit. Oh, she, children, she

Yeah, ring your bell Oh, go down, will it Yeah, the sun will be up ahead Great guy from North Carolina. Has a family. Really dedicated to songwriting.

You know, some people have fucking writer's block. Not Mike. Mike's rocking shit with the Dawes. He's a badass. Everyone respects the shit out of Mike, and I do too. So ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for Mike Taylor from His Gold Messenger. And I will catch you on the tail end to talk to our girl from KMU Labs, Robin. All right, talk soon.

Oh, maybe I could see it as a peaceful world But hey, I'm afraid, I'm afraid Yeah, shake, baby, shake All my little old men do While they come round, yeah, my little sunshine do Yes, shake, baby, shake, yeah, that black country town I beg your mercy, sister. For the fool that wears the crown. I'll fight and win.

Like the dog, like the dog. Or maybe I can see it's a peaceful world. But it ain not my fate I'm in the end Yeah, yonder comes day With a full moon in the high I like the old ways, those mystical times. What blues do they sing? Why is sex so easy?

And Lord, how I love the eye, la, la. Yeah. MC Taylor, what's up, buddy? Hey, how are you, Andy? I'm good, buddy. Yeah! quote unquote school, it feels like the end of the summer. Yeah, I bet, man. I mean, you've been a big public school advocate. How are you feeling about all this stuff, kids going back to school and such? Boy, it's a tough one. It's tough. The sort of base feeling about it is that I, I see and understand how complicated it is for,

for many people that don't have the, um, don't have the luxury to decide whether they want to send their kids back or not. You know, there are a lot of, a lot of, a lot of people, most people I would say that are having to figure out how to, people most people i would say that are having to figure out how to how to work in order to pay the bills and and educate their kids and have their kids going somewhere in the day so that they can work uh you know so that that's like the that's the that's my basic the sort of like foundation of the whole thing. But then like, you know, the bigger, the bigger, uh, the bigger thing about it is that students should not be going back into school right now. It's not safe. It's not safe for students or teachers.

And to, uh, to think otherwise is, is to be completely deluding yourself. But, you know, I think that as this administration has made clear throughout this whole thing, they're going to make us learn that the hard way. Well, yeah, of course. I mean, it's not, it's never going to be easy. It's 2020 bud. Yeah. Things could be, things could be rolling out a lot more smoothly. You know, we've seen it happening in countries all over the world, but for, for a whole host of reasons that we don't need to get into.

This is a, this is a, this is a happy show. This is a happy call. This is a happy call. This is a happy call. So, you know, I'm a little heartbroken about school. I took my kids to pick up their computers, you know, so that they can do that from their school, so they can do their distance learning. And, you know, they saw friends in the distance,

and it was a little heartbreaking, to be honest. So they're giving out laptops? their distance learning and you know they saw they saw friends in the distance and it was a little heartbreaking to be honest so they're not going to see those they give a laptop yeah i mean i got i have to yeah i have to say because of the durham public school system you know durham is a durham is a very very uh progressive city on a lot of levels. And I think that, you know, they've come a long way in elevating and celebrating public education. So yeah, every student in the school district got a Chromebook. Wow, that's amazing. I mean, what about the schools that are treated equally in terms of allocating resources like that so whether a school within the district is low performing doesn't really have a bearing on whether they're going to get the same amount of laptops it's just

like you have this many kids this This is how many laptops you get. That's fucking crazy. I mean, what made you be such an advocate for public schools? Weren't your parents educators? Yeah, my parents were both public school teachers. I grew up in California, you know, in the in the 80s and 90s. And, you know you know, the, uh, so, I mean, I just was around it just hearing them talk at the dinner table. And I feel like, um, over, over the decades, I heard this, um, this kind of evolution of mainly conservative politicians vilifying public education as a drain on resources, which is not true. But, you know, public educators make great scapegoats for a lot of a lot of things that are not, you know, are not real problems. And, you know, that vilify public education,

generally speaking, are trying to distract us from something that they're actually doing. Yeah, I mean, seriously, I mean, I, I grew up in public school education in Southern California too. What part of Southern California were you from? Were you like Orange County or, or yeah, in Orange County, I grew up in Irvine. Cool. Yeah. So the same thing, they're defunding everything from sports to drama, to music. I mean, all the things that really help a child's progression. I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, and make, make no mistake here, cutting funding for arts programs in, um, in, uh, in public education and any given school district, the money that they're saving is not gonna,

is not gonna help anything. It's not a, it's not a, not a substantive amount of money. Um, so is that the reason, but also I'm, I'm also married to a public school teacher and so, yeah. So, you know, it's just, I, I don't know, man. It's, it's just, yeah, it makes me angry. Yeah. It's just, I don't know, man. It's just, yeah, it makes me angry. Yeah. It's just, it's so clearly not fair. Yeah, and, you know, especially you see it, and the child probably, do you think your children feel that too? Do you feel like they're not getting as educated enough as, you know,

back in the day? No, I don't think so. Like, the school that they go to is great. It's an amazing school. They're not getting as educated enough as back in the day. No, I don't think so. The school that they go to is great. It's an amazing school. They have nothing to compare it to. Yeah, that's true. Is that the reason why public schools are going charter?

Because they could control the funding? Is that the reason why a lot of public schools are going charter? Because they could control the funding. Is that the reason why a lot of public schools are going charter? Because they could control the funding and where they could allocate the funds from their school independently in a way? I mean, that's a whole other big conversation. I'm not a fan of charter schools as they exist now. you know, because they, they take the, they, they remove funding from public education. Charter schools are not, not, is not public education.

Really? No. Will you give me like, will you? Yeah. Cause my school went charter when I was in high school the last year and I was kind of confused on, were they like trying to like go independent on that ass, like Tupac style or was it like they wanted to control the funding or was it just so they had more control? What is that about?

You know, Andy, I don't, I don't think that I'm probably the best person to, because I don't know enough about it. Come on, Mike, give us your feedback. I could kind of bullshit my way through it. Give us your feedback. I could kind of bullshit my way through it. But I do know, generally speaking, that, you know, charter schools, whatever their history may have been, have been kind of turned into this blunt force weapon by, again, like, you know republicans but also like quote unquote well-meaning white parents yeah that um are you know often scared of um having their their kids in class with black kids yeah oh you know i mean there's no other way there's no other way to say it.

Yeah, I could see that in LA because they're shipping people from downtown LA into the suburbs and you could tell that some of these racist parents were like, what's going on? But there you go. That's crazy. But let's talk about let's talk about happiness yeah this is kind of depressing the shit out of me um so you grew up in socal

um you were you were a hardcore bands i did not know that about you mike you were into hardcore man i contain multitudes so you tell me about this hardcore like did you what you grew up listening to they got you hardcore yeah got you into hardcore bands yeah yeah i mean yeah okay i'll try and like make it as concise as i can uh but you know my my my sort of growing up in music is not dissimilar from so many people that I know that came up in that world. And, you know, like, I was, by the time that I was like 11 or 12, I was obsessed with music, especially drawn to stuff that kind of existed on the fringes. And I don't know why that is. Maybe it was just feeling like I was discovering something new

or I was venturing into a new territory that nobody else that I knew was going into. But at that time, we were kind of living in the golden age of hip-hop so my first like real obsession with music was with um you know stuff like eric being rock kim stetsa sonic um run dmc um you know like uh de la soul um all that all that early stuff that you'd see on like yo mtv raps early in the morning yeah um and that kind of blossomed into um being into like punk rock as i could discover it then you know i could take my skateboard and go up to the store and i could buy like I could buy De La Soul's Three Feet High and Rising and I could buy a copy of like a TSOL record yeah you know um a lot of this was like being also being involved in like the skateboard world I was like a I was a very dedicated skateboarder for all of my you know all

of my life up until I was probably like 20. What would you like about skateboarding growing up? I mean, again, it was like an act, it was an activity that existed on the fringes. It was something that I could do. I could do alone if I wanted to. Um, I've always been kind of an introverted person. I don't mind being alone. Yeah. And, um, I wasn't into team sports, mind being alone yeah and um i wasn't into team sports you know like southern california as you probably know um you know there was so much um so much baseball and yeah basketball and all that stuff and i just i wasn't that wasn't me it just wasn't me i was like i was into skateboarding and i was into surfing and I was into music. So people get confused being an introvert and being lonely. Were you ever lonely?

No, no. I mean, yeah. I always say that people, being an introvert doesn't mean that you get your power from having solitary time. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. How important is that to you? Andy, I think you might be an extrovert. Are you an extrovert? I'm an extrovert when I have to turn on the switch and be an entertainer but when i'm when i'm not i i like being alone i like uh

uh i like being alone and i like uh you know not talking to anybody yeah yeah yeah i mean that's the funny thing about being a musician is that there are so many of us that i think of as introverts but we have we have figured out a way. On paper, I would say that my job choice is a strange one. But in my body, it feels like, yeah, I love this job, man. I love getting up in front of crowds of people and playing my music. What about being in front of crowds, not playing music? How do you feel about that? I don't know.

I don't have much experience with that. Really? Yeah, I guess not. I mean, that's funny because, yeah, I'm like that too. Once I get out of my comfort zone in a big crowd, I don't like going to parties. If I'm not performing or anything, I don't like going into big gatherings. I'm always in the corner. I mean, I don't know if that's being introvert or just, um, worrying about not being on autopilot in a big crowd. Yeah. Do you have

anxiety, Andy? Yeah, I have heavy anxiety. It's like the thing that cripples me, actually. What about you? Do you have depression? Yeah, I'm depressed. Yeah, I go to therapy. And I've been depressed since I was 15, I think. What about you? Yeah, same. So what were the suppression feelings that you had when you were 15 that made you depressed?

Oh, I don't know if it had manifested then. I would say it's been more in the past 10, 15 years maybe. So you didn't go to therapy when you were younger? This is a new thing? No, no. I go to therapy now. Yeah, what triggered you finally picking a therapist and doing this? You know, I came through this.

I had this working relationship with this person that I would describe now as sort of emotionally abusive. And it was like this years long, um, this years long relationship that like really led me down a weird spiraling path that, um, by the end of it, I was kind of like trying, trying to put my, put the pieces back together of myself. I had like fired this person. Um, what were you,

were you being a musician or what was this? Yeah. Yeah. I was a musician. Yeah. This was a former manager of mine. Oh damn. Fucking Schwartz had to pick up the pieces, huh? I mean, yeah, yeah. Brian Schwartz is, yeah. So like I came, I don't know, maybe this is too revealing, but I came into my relationship with Brian Schwartz feeling pretty, pretty fucking tender. Did you want to quit the music industry because of this guy? Not Schwartz, but your old manager? Yeah, yeah. No, we got to say Brian Schwartz is a prince.

Yeah, he is a prince. He saved my life too, so that's good. Yeah. Did I want to quit music? I mean, I didn't know if I was supposed to be making music anymore. I'll say it that way. Why? I felt like I had been convinced

that maybe I didn't have the stuff to do it. Maybe I didn't either have the ideas or the skill or the stones to make it in music. And I just was feeling used up you know like that's that was the place that i was at when i made terms of surrender terms of surrender is like a really intense record for me to hear because like i felt like i was at the end of my the end of my rope with that record and i talked i talked a little bit about it with when you know like it's uh it's a very complicated thing to put a record out and you know if the record the record's got to be real you know what i mean like there has to be real feelings on the

record or who gives a shit i know and how long and so it's like i put this record out and then i was in this position where i i needed to like talk about where the record was coming from and i don't know if i ever was fully fully honest about about how low i was when i made that record there's a lot of stuff on that there's a lot of stuff on that record that i love yeah but you know what i mean it's just like i hear it now and um it's it's tough for me and and like i have i have something to compare it to now because i just made and i just made a new record. Yeah. And it's the first record in several records that this person was no longer involved with me.

And I feel like I kind of got my vibe back. Yeah. So now I'm looking back at the things that I was working on over the past several years and feeling like, damn, man, that, that, that, yeah, that, that, that situation really had me kind of spinning for a minute. What was he, what was he telling to you? What can we talk about that? Because there's a lot of people who have, are in toxic relationships with their managers and don't know how to get out of it.

I mean, I mean, I think a lot of it was just there was a lot of like gaslighting going on and just, you know, I'd I'd ask him about I'd ask him about something that was clearly in the purview of a manager's responsibilities. purview of a manager's responsibilities. And instead of giving me an answer that was a simple, unemotional answer, he'd say stuff like, you know what, man, if you can't trust me on this, then you have some deeper problems that I can't help you with. Oh, Jesus Christ. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, totally. It's like his way or the highway, in a sense. Well, sort of.

It's just like, you know, you don't need to know anything. You just need to make the music. And maybe that works for some people, but it didn't work for me. It's like job security. I've always been very... Yeah, for him? Yeah, exactly. I've always been very hands-on

with everything I'm doing. I want to be able to go into my bank account and make sure that I have the money to pay people, and I need to understand what I'm going to be paying people, you know, just simple shit like that when you're running your own business and anything like that, any questions about that kind of stuff was totally suspect with this person. And it was really made it incredibly complicated. You know, I'd say stuff

like, man, I mean, I hear what your idea is. Are we going to have the money to pay for this? And he'd be like, you know what, man, if you can't trust me on the money, then I don't know. I don't know that we should be doing this. It's like, yeah, keep going, Mike. So that, you know, it was, it was that kind of thing. It was very odd. It was very odd. And like I've since like kind of done a little research because I wasn't the only person that was experiencing this kind of behavior. Like it turned out later that there were other people in my circle

that were experiencing this too. And I've sort of researched like abusive personalities and man this all the behavior like fits to a t it's it's crazy but the but the other thing the other thing for me is like man i i never it never occurred to me that I would end up in this in this position of feeling helpless about um about the thing that brings me so much joy which is making music and it really has made me be very much on my guard you know because I invited this person into this world of mine that is so intimate. This place of making music is so personal. Yeah, I agree.

So it has really made me... I still really keep my guard up and as best I can try and ascertain what someone, someone's motives are for trying to, trying to enter into my life. I don't know if that's, I don't think that's probably the best way to be, but it really like just, um, it really stung me. So it's like kind of like PTSD now. I mean, you know, I'm not going to. I just I don't know.

You know, I don't know. It was just it was tough. Like, I just I just think some days like, why? Why? What? What reason? What reason did that person have for needing to behave like that? I don't get it.

Insecurities, you know? Yeah. I think they're just insecure and don't, they realize that the more knowledge they give you, then they feel like they don't need you anymore. You know, sometimes I have that with Schwartz, where I have a lot of manager friends, you know? And like we just, you know, I we just you know i just you know i love

talking to managers it's not like i'm gonna ever leave schwartz schwartz is like my uh my sandy you know from greece you know but uh you know sometimes you know they feel like you know it's like everyone has their insecurities and like no one wants it's precious. It's the same thing. When you finally make your art your living, it puts your art in a different category. And sometimes that fucks people up, right? Yeah. I mean, I think it kind of fucked me up for a while. Yeah.

Is songwriting so important to you? And entertaining is so important to me. And when someone tries to fuck with my vibe, I'm going to fuck them up. You know what I'm saying, Mike? yeah is songwriting so important to you and entertaining is so important to me and when someone tries to fuck with my vibe i'm gonna fuck them up you know what i'm saying mike yeah i mean that's that's kind of like yeah i think that my like my my process of like healing over the past couple years because you know in you know, Terms of Surrender was done, it was done for a long time before it came out, right? So, like, the amount of time that has passed from Terms of Surrender's, like, the start of that,

which I really think of, like, the beginning of the making of that record was the, was, like, the, like, real, like like crumbling of my relationship with this person and but like from that time until now we're talking like two and a half years at this point you know what i mean so i've had a couple a couple good solid years to just reflect and think about what you know what i could have done differently. I'm not a perfect person, you know, like I have a lot of my own issues that I'm sure contributed to, to, to this whole thing. But, uh, what kind of issues? I mean, you know, I think like, like a lot of like,

well, I'm not going to say like a lot of people because that sounds like I'm sort of waffling or excusing myself. But I think I have some issues with like miscommunication, maybe saying something that I don't actually feel in order to appease someone. And like that only ends up causing everybody pain later yeah um so i'm i'm like trying to i'm trying to be really clear with my intentions now and clear with my statements i don't want to hurt anybody's feelings i'm not out to like i'm not out to cut anybody, but the fact is when it comes to Hissgold Messenger, it's my career, it's my songs, I'm doing 90% of the work. And I need the transmission of what I'm trying to communicate. I need it to be very clear. When people listen to it, I need it to feel like they're getting the straight truth from me.

You know what I mean? I have to be very careful that things that pop up between me and people hearing the music or the music entering into the world don't cloud up the message in my music. You know what I mean, I know you might, it might be intense for people, but sometimes I, I listen or I read your Twitter and I see the M's, the other side of MC. I thought, you know, and it's fucking awesome too. I mean, like, what's the difference between suppressing how you feel as a man versus not cherishing or not, you know, making an image of what the songwriting's about? I mean, in the long game, that's every avenue of you, Mike. Yeah. Well, I mean, Twitter, mean twitter oh yeah i don't know about twitter i i feel like we're gonna all look back in 20 years and be extremely ashamed of the way we were all behaving on twitter myself included myself included man that is like the

worst of our impulses there. What makes you want to vent on Twitter like that? I don't know. It's like a screaming chamber where people just go to the mouth of this cave and scream their bullshit into it. I don't know why it's become that place. I've also gotten a lot of really enlightening information on that website. Same. But I don't know.

I don't know. I don't like the person that I am in that place. I should just stop putting stuff on there, honestly. I mean, if it makes you feel bad, but no, I think this is why we're songwriters. It's another outlet. Do you feel like it's fucking up the message of the songs? No, no, not at all i just no it just feels like most of the people that follow me on that on on there already agree with basically already agree with what i'm saying so it's like you know what i mean chamber yeah so it's just like what what is it about why what does it matter what difference am i making

it's not constructive it's just me being bitchy yeah but it's the same thing you could say about writing music for your fans right well maybe i don't know i i put a lot of thought i put a lot of i try and put a lot of thought into my music and i definitely don't on twitter i mean i feel like it's a way to vent in a way where you're not, you know, it's like kind of like free therapy where you don't have to pay $200 an hour for. Yeah, but it's not it's not real. It doesn't it's not real communication. Yeah. You know, do you think that's the problem with this generation?

We don't have real communication. Just an echo chambers, a bunch of echo chambers. just an echo chambers bunch of echo chambers no i mean i no i don't put it on like i don't put it on this generation i think that me i mean this generation meaning people younger than me no 2020 and how we get news out and how we have to express our individuality? I think that people, I think that let's call them millennials. You're a millennial, aren't you, Frasco? Yeah, baby. 1988, pal. I think that people are starving for real communication.

And they're getting as close as they possibly can. I mean, being locked up in our, not locked up, being in our houses for so long hasn't made things any easier. I think that people are starving for real human communication. And what we're being told by, you know, corporate capitalist America is that the way that we communicate now, it's fun. We do it all online. You can be concise and you can say whatever you want. And it's the great equalizer.

But it's not that at all, actually. And it's missing the most important thing, which is human touch. You know, like touch is important, man. I could say one thing on social media and I could say it in person to someone and it would carry completely different meaning. Yeah. Talk to me about intimacy then. How important is intimacy? What kind of intimacy? I mean, um, we could go through all of them. Let's go through touch first. So like touch and communication from, you know,

eye to eyes can get the point across better than just writing words down on a tweet, right? Like you were saying, so like the communication you have, let's say with your wife or with your kids hits you harder than something that you just press send on through Twitter, right? Definitely. Why?

Definitely because, you know, with in-person intimacy, you're really pressed to mean what you say. Yeah. You're really pressed to mean what you say. Yeah. Because, for instance, if I say something that does not hold a full measure of truth to my kids, all they have to do is look me in the eye. And my look back at them is going to tell them that they're not getting the whole thing. You know what I mean?

There's an emotional tension that exists with in-person communication that just doesn't exist with anything else. You know? with anything else, you know? You're held more accountable with in-person communication, and I think that that's one thing that is really missing from, say, a medium like Twitter. There's no accountability. People can go on there, and they can pretend that they're somebody else. They can be anonymous, and they can pretend that there's somebody else they can be anonymous then they can say whatever they want they can say terrible racist misogynistic shit and not be held accountable

for it yeah and i think that you know that is that's very poisonous i agree i agree i mean it's it's important when when you're with with in the sense of intimacy when you're with someone you could tell when they're being genuine or not you can't tell when people are being genuine online right that's what i'm saying man that's what i'm saying like in you know in uh it's funny because i want to say in the days before social media, in a perfect world, in a world that maybe didn't actually exist, but I believe is coming into existence now to hear someone use a racist slur on the street meant that that person was going to get pushback from people around them saying, Hey man, that's not the way that we talk around here. We don't use that word. You know,

that makes you sound ignorant and, um, you know, backwards and that's not our, not our beliefs. Yeah. You know, people that, people that speak that way have been empowered both by the lack of accountability on social media, but also by our current administration that celebrates racism. Yeah, our current administration celebrates racism. All that stuff. Yeah, I think that we have also entered into a period of time where people on the right side of history, the Black Lives Matter movement, women, queer and trans people are feeling empowered enough to just stand up and say, that's not right. That's not how you behave. That's not the type of language that people use. And we're going to burn this place down, either literally or figuratively, if this kind of behavior that subjugates us continues. You know what I mean? I haven't, I haven't seen that sort of power emanating from communities that have historically been on the

fringes in my lifetime. This is the first time I've seen it. So it's kind of like this, we're living in this weird time that feels a little bit hopeless, but also really hopeful. What do you think triggered all this? You know, I think that it's hard to say. I mean, I can only speak from my own experience of just, and, you know, my experience has been that of a white man so yeah you know i've had a i've had a leg up on everybody else yeah in america um but you know part of it is is seen again in this.

I don't I don't mean to keep going to this place, but like just this everyday celebration by the so-called president and his supporters of racism, homophobia, misogyny, violence, you know. Misogyny, violence, you know, and I just, you know, part of it is just like, man, that is not the sort of human being that I want to be. Certainly, I don't want my kids to be that way. I don't want to be around anybody that is like that. anybody that is, is with that kind of... I don't know... I don't really know yet how to articulate why that affected me so strongly because clearly we've had evidence for our entire lives that, um,

policing in black and Brown communities wasn't working. Yeah. You know what I mean? But there was something, I mean, obviously I'm not the only one because it basically was like the match to a pile of Tinder. Like,

and I think that it and you know this is what i'm talking about about feeling hopeless and hopeful because in almost the same breath you see this man's life extinguished in such a cruel uh in such a cruel and callous way that it was hard it's hard to even it's hard to even wrap your mind around it but at the same time it sparked something so profound um in terms of all of the protests protests that started and have continued on that it's that is also breathtaking in another way totally and like moving further deeper into that how hard is it going to be to articulate how you feel towards this towards this movement um going towards songwriting you know i i am i don't think i

don't find that piece of it hard at all because um um, you know, my job is to, I see my job as to make songs that feel like a genuine expression of emotion. You know, my job is not to, um, my, my job is not to explain, um, you know, is not to explain what the protest movement is. My job is to sing about what seeing a white police officer kneeling on the neck of a black man does to me emotionally. And that doesn't mean that I'm going to be saying George Floyd's name. You know what I mean? Yeah. It means that I have some soul searching to do.

And I'm going to make music that sounds like I'm searching in my soul for what I think it means to be human. Yeah, totally. And what is that? What is to be human, Mike? I mean, you know, it changes. It changes every day. It changes every day.

Some days it's, you know, it's to celebrate and to party. celebrate and to party. And some days it's to mourn and to cry. And some days it's both things. Some days it's to hold

my kids or to hold my wife and not say anything. It's to be, it's to be open to, to be open to the winds of emotion, I think. And it's to be, uh, you know, to be human is to be, is to be willing and open to evolution and to changing. You know, I think that's one thing that I feel like I can sense with certain members of generations older than us is that a lot of their anger, unhappiness, confusion comes from them being asked to be, to be changeable, to be malleable, to be willing to evolve,

you know? Um, why do you think older generations aren't willing to adapt i think because they're scared yeah because they're scared that they're scared that there's not going to be a place for them in the world and um i'm not exactly sure where where that where that i mean i i can be sympathetic to that fear, but I don't know that there's actually, we have an example of, of anyone, you know, that is an open hearted person being asked to leave, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's hard.

I mean, it's,. I mean, it's, isn't it just like presence being present? Like how hard is it to be present towards you, for you, not towards you, for you? I mean, pretty hard. Yeah, me too, man. I mean, this is why we go to therapy. Pretty hard, but you know, I try. I think about it all the time. But that, when you're going back to the old generations, maybe it's just hard to be present in the moment

and seeing what's going on, seeing how everyone's reacting, you know, and they just go back to their old ways when they were the talk of the town. You know, maybe they're afraid to lose the power. Oh, there's no doubt that there's no doubt that I think a lot of, you know, certainly older white men who historically have been running things without, you know, without being questioned. Yeah, they're afraid to lose power. Of course they are. Yeah. What about, what about losing power within themselves? Cause well, that too,

man, that's, that's even scarier. I mean, I think that part of it is that I think that part of it is, it is that they, they never even located power within themselves to begin with. You know what I mean? Well, explain that to me so I have a better, I have kind of like the first page idea of that. Can you go deeper for me for that? I mean, yeah. Okay, this is just me bullshitting, Andy.

That's fine. That's why we're friends, bud. I have spent a little time thinking about it. I mean, I feel like I know a lot of people that have a very clear conception and sense of their own power. Power meaning self-worth, ego, confidence, skill set. Um, and I think that, you know, I think that, um, that people are, that make art are really well attuned to locating that power because, you know, making art means going out on an emotional limb over and over again right if

you're if you're trying to make art that is like lasting and and is is feels real like feels genuine um you have to have some sense of your own personal power or you're not going to, you're not going to be able to do it. Um, and I, I feel like there may be some people out in our world that are, you know, in positions of quote unquote power that do not understand themselves. Yeah. What, because like, don't under, they never did, right? Yeah, they never did. They never did because I think understanding power, your own power, to truly do that, it means that you have to be sensitive to other people. You have to have some measure of empathy because you got to understand how your power affects other people.

Yeah, that's true. What type of power do you think you have on people uh what type of power do you think i have on people i think um i think you know i think you understand um i think you understand sensitivity with your lyrics i i think you understand vulnerability because a lot of your lyrics, but it's so fun. I mean, like, it's so funny because you probably don't think that. Or do you? I mean, it's a tricky question.

You know, the second that we start talking about, well, what is our own power? We start, we kind of buckle a little bit. Part of it is like, we don't want to sound like we know exactly how we affect people. Yeah. They were narcissists. Yeah. I mean like that, that part of it can be a little dangerous. But I think that the thing that people take away from my songs, let's say, are what you're talking about. I think people connect with a vulnerability that appears in my songs. because being vulnerable is hard. It can make you feel ashamed. It can make you feel embarrassed. But it's very real. And I feel like what I've heard from people more than anything else

that listen to my music is that they feel like I am articulating something, um, articulating something that, that feels very relatable to them. You know what I mean? Um, so I think that's part of the power that it is my responsibility to wield with, with sensitivity is, um, I need to make sure that I'm doing a real service and justice to what it means to expose our vulnerability. You know what I mean? Because I want to live in a world

where everybody is comfortable talking about their vulnerabilities because I think that that makes a better world. I agree. I 100% agree. Because you're so vulnerable with your audience and with your songs, are you hard to love with your personal love uh um i feel like i might be a little hard to love yeah i don't know i don't i'm not sure that it's

because i'm vulnerable i feel like i can be i can be a little hard to read and sometimes I can be a little hard to read, and sometimes I might be the hardest to read with people that are closest to me, and I think that probably comes from the fact that I'm scared of losing those people. It's a very backwards way of thinking about it. I'm the same exact way, man. Why are we afraid to be vulnerable with the people It's a very backwards way of thinking about it. I'm the same exact way, man.

Why are we afraid to be vulnerable with the people that are so important to us, but we could be vulnerable to a bunch of fucking strangers? I think because we're afraid that the people that we're closest to are going to abandon us us i don't know where that feeling comes from but we want to be ready for it we want to prepare ourselves for that abandonment and um man i don't know why that is and that's something that i'm i'm trying to work on for sure do you think um were you ever abandoned as a kid no so weird So weird how, that's what me too. I'm like, so it's so weird how we still think that way. I mean, I don't know about you, but for me, it's hard for me to communicate with people that I'm really close with.

It's, that's the hardest thing is being intimate with those people. Yeah. I mean, I feel like if, if there's one area of my life that I really want to, um, to focus on, it's, it's that is like, you know, these people that I am the closest to, they need to understand that, that they are, um, that they occupy those positions with me. Do you feel like sometimes they don't think that? No, I think they know, you know, like, and I'm like, I'm wide open with my kids, you know, that's, that's one thing is like, I saw a picture of him. He's super tall.

Yeah. Shit, bro. All right. Keep of him. He's super tall, yeah. Holy shit, bro. Yeah, he's tall. All right, keep going with the intimacy with your kid. Yeah, I mean, whatever way I behave around people that are my peers, it's really important to me that my kids have what I consider to be a great role model in their lives, both as a dad and as a man. You know, I mean, so it's important for me to have them seeing me engaged in life in an artistic way.

Why do you think that's so important to you? Did your dad not give you that type of intimacy? I think men of my dad's generation, including my father, struggle pretty hard with being openly emotional and affectionate and still feeling like they're fulfilling their idea of what it means to be masculine. Is there a new idea of masculinity now versus then?

I mean, I feel like it's evolved. It certainly is. In my mind, what it means to be a man is nothing like what I think the idea of manhood was to my parents' generation. What's it like to be a man to you, Mike? His heads keep on coming here, Andy. Sorry, buddy.

I'm curious, man, because I relate to you a here, Andy. Sorry, buddy. I'm curious, man, because I relate to you a lot, Mike. I'm asking these questions for myself, not for the fans. I think that I want my kids to understand that men cry.

And that men cry and that men are communicative and men are silly and you know my kids need to understand that as white people, we have had, like I said before, we're very very we're very fortunate yeah and we need to we need to recognize that and our job is to is to conceptualize ways to help our neighbors that haven't been born into positions of privilege and power.

You know what I mean? It's hard, man. It's hard. understanding that, you know, as a man, you know, there, a man, how do I say this? Um, I mean, okay. Like maybe the best, most recent example is like talking about, um, talking about Joe Biden choosing Kamala Harris as his running mate. And so like, let's not even get into issues of what people's feelings are about the, those candidates. Right.

But just, you know, we had a long discussion with our kids about like Kamala Harris is now in the running to be the vice president of the United States, and she is Indian and black. And that I feel like we try to foreground in our house. And I know that a lot of other people do too. We're not special in that regard. to help their kids understand that color is important. And, you know, it's what makes the earth great. I agree, man. I mean, we're all one. It doesn't matter what color you are we're all in

this together we're all on this fucking weird ball in the space and why why are we you know judging someone over their color um that's i agree man yo this has been we've already been talking for an hour you're the man mike i could talk to you forever. I know you got shit to do. You got to write fucking beautiful songs, stare your wife in the eyes, and be intimate with her. And I got one last question. By the way, I love your records. You know how much I love you. You're the man.

Thanks, Andy. I love you too, bud. I'm very extremely proud that I got a song of mine on your record. Yeah, dude. Long way to go. And we got to do that again. We should do another writing session one of these days. I'm very extremely proud that I got a song of mine on your record. Yeah, dude. Long way to go. And we got to do that again. We should do another writing session one of these days. I'm ready.

Anytime. All right. Fuck yeah. I got one last question, buddy. What do you want to be remembered by? Oh, man. I want to be remembered as being a loving person. Yeah.

Did you ever feel like you weren't loving? Probably. Probably. Probably, but I'm working on it. That's great, buddy. I think you're a loving guy. I know your kids

and your wife and even Twitter thinks you're loving. So don't worry. Don't beat yourself up about that. MC, thanks for being on the show, man. And I appreciate everything you're doing and you got any new stuff in the

works or you got anything to promote or push while we're talking? I mean, I'll just say I'm, I just made a new record that I'm very excited about. Yo, Schwartz never gives me the fucking months before. Yo, if you want to hook me up with a song or two so I can listen to it, that'd be tight. I'll send you something.

It's pretty far from being done, as you know how making records goes. But there is some stuff that I can share with you that I feel like is pretty sick. Let's fucking go. Send it to me. I want to hear it. I want my parents to hear it too. All right, buddy. MC, love you, buddy.

Have fun in North Carolina. We didn't really talk about music, but fuck it. This was more important. It's okay. Yeah, I'll hit you up this week. Thanks for everything, buddy. Thanks, Rasko.

Love you. Love you too. Keep up the good work, pal. All right. Bye. There you have it. MC Taylor, the man with the wisdom to keep the world in a better place moving forward. All right.

Next up, we have Camu Labs. We have Robin from Camu Labs. We're going to talk about CBDs and the misidentification of what CBDs do. And you don't just get fucked up from it. It's actually healing stuff. All right, be back after this. This one goes out to all our deadheads out there. Kick it, boys.

Yeah. Fucking two hippies rubbing some ruts. Fucking they're on a whole lot of drugs. Together, yeah, they're having some fun Just keep fucking on Fucking don't wanna come too fast Maybe he'll put it in her ass Hoping she doesn't pass no gas.

Just keep fucking on. Third day at the festival, he's feeling frisky. She's in the corner, two hula hoops round her neck. Her titties are swinging, her armpits are looking hairy. He's hoping he's sick Will you wait? Fuckin' Two hippies Rubbin' some rugs

Fuckin' They're on a whole lot of drugs Together Yeah, they're havin' some fun Just keep fuckin' on Alright, and there you have it It's so fun Just keep fucking on Alright And there you have it Thanks Mike

Great fucking interview What a man Legend Great songwriter Gave us the knowledge that we needed To get through our week Another week of quarantine But now

We have Robin Kaywood From Camu Labs We We're going to talk all about CBD and talk about the partnership we're having with the World Saving Podcast. What's up, Robin? How are we doing today, girl? What up? Thanks for having me on. This was amazing. Oh, man. How are you doing? Thanks, by the way. Thanks for all that you do for the community. I mean, I just want to get people hip on CBD. A lot of people who don't like THC, I would like to answer questions for people who aren't

hip with CBD. Why don't we start with that? What is CBD? Right. Well, most people probably have heard the letter CBD by now, but there's a lot of misinformation and confusion around what that actually means. So CBD stands for cannabidiol, and it's one of 113 cannabinoids that are found in the cannabis plant. THC is the only one that has the psychoactive effect. So CBD is non-psychoactive. It has no real side effects, low risk of addiction,

no chance of a lethal overdose. And they're finding more and more information about how beneficial CBD and other cannabinoids are for our system. Once medical marijuana was passed, then science was able to finally start doing some research and finding out why the plant was working. We knew it was working, but we didn't know why. So it gave license to labs and science to start studying it. And within that framework, they discovered that our bodies have an endocannabinoid system. So our bodies actually create cannabinoids and the cannabis plant makes a phytocannabinoid, a plant-based cannabinoid that mimics the same chemical that our body's creating. And those chemicals are the messengers of the body. So they actually

communicate with all of the systems in our body and help to create balance and homeostasis. So it's a really foundational piece to our health. Yeah. Why are people scared of taking them? Is it because of the psychoactiveness? Yeah, I think there's a lot of misinformation. I just spoke with a professional snowboarder the other day about CBD and she was under the impression that it would get you high. So there's still a lot of misinformation, and it's about education. Anytime something new is in the pipeline, the onus is on us to educate and make sure people understand what it does. So when people are picking CBDs, why CamuLabs?

That's a great question. There's a lot of things that differentiate us and there's a million and one CBD companies out there. So one of the things that makes us different is we are not strictly a CBD company. So I'm sure you've had a chance to try the products by now. Yeah, it's fucking bomb, dude. I love this vitality. I love it. And I love the dream because I could fucking dream. You're warning me about like, take it for three or four or five days

and see how your body reacts. And all of a sudden by the fifth day, I'm dreaming about dinosaurs and shit. It was insane, dude. I was never a dreamer because I smoke so much THC. Why does THC not make you dream versus why this dream elixir makes you dream? Well, okay. So THC actually, there's a chemical that's produced in our body called anandamide. And ananda means bliss in Sanskrit. So it's kind of our bliss chemical along with serotonin. And THC molecularly looks exactly like Anandamide. So when you ingest THC, your brain thinks that you're getting a chemical and it binds with that receptor.

And that's what makes you feel high. CBD molecularly is a little different. So it doesn't bind with the receptor, but it interacts with it. And in our body, whenever we create a chemical, then we create an enzyme that starts to break that chemical down and it recycles and it starts again. So CBD actually blocks the enzyme that breaks down our anandamide. So when the anandamide receptor is activated, it does seem like it affects dreams because you regularly hear that when people regularly ingest THC, they don't dream as much. So our dream formula is not just CBD. And this is one of

the things that CAMU does differently. We incorporate a lot of different aspects. So when we're wanting to work with something like dream, when we want to sleep, we look at the whole system, what creates a peaceful night of sleep. And we target all of that rather than isolating one thing that works, we really draw from everything that we have available to us. So that includes mushrooms, that includes herbs, botanicals, it includes nutraceuticals, vitamins, and the CBD. So our dream blend has not only the full spectrum CBD, but it has California poppy and reishi mushroom and skullcap, passion flower, lemon balm, ashwagandha, lavender, 5-HTP, melatonin. So it's drawing on all of these

different plant extracts that can create the environment that's conducive for sleeping. Fucking awesome. So how are you, you're making all this shit, right? I do all the R&D, the research and development is all in my lab. That's where the magic happens. And then we have partnerships with facilities that help us do the bottling. Let's fucking go. I'm into it because I've, you know, all this stuff has really been helping me, you know, what's,

check out camulabs.com. I'll be, we're going to be giving out a lot of stuff on the shit show. Watch the shit show. Get some stuff. Honestly, I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass. This is really helping me with my anxiety. You know how I'm an exotic Jew.

I have anxiety like crazy. I'm not into the whole psychoactive stuff because that just triggers my anxiety when you're having a bad trip. So when people, you know, just getting that information out there that there's other ways you don't have to take pills and we could try figuring out what's going on, rewiring our brain naturally. That's why we're in this together. Right, Robin? Absolutely. So grateful. I appreciate you. And we're going to get you on the shit show. So we're going to do health with Dr. Robin. I'm in. And anything you need from me, and I can't wait when this quarantine's over, let's go to some shows together. I'd love that.

Fuck yeah. Thanks, Robin, for being on the show. I appreciate it. And, uh, I'll hit you up later and let's, uh, let's, let's wrap. Sounds great. Have a good day. Later. There you have it. Robin, K-Wood, K-Mu Labs, uh, world saving podcast, uh, partner, um, great information there. Um, stay focused focused get your mind right if you don't like weed then maybe you don't like the THC psychoactiveness in the weed try these CBD's I'm telling you it's really great stuff

I've been on them now for two weeks and I feel happier I feel fresh I feel you know I feel healthier and I'm dreaming y'all that's's what I'm, that's what I love most about this product is dreaming. I can fucking dream now. I can smoke a fat blunt before I go to bed and then take this dream elixir. And I am fucking dreaming about crazy shit on the yard. So that's it for this show. Hope you enjoyed it. Um, I'm 80 Frasco. Check out 14 Boulder too. Shout out to the boys growing the best

cannabis in Colorado. If you're in Colorado area, go over there. But I'll leave you with this. Whatever you got to do to take care of yourself, take care of yourself because life is too short. And if you're going to keep on waiting until tomorrow to take care of yourself, all of a sudden you're going to wake up when you're 80 one day and you're like, fuck, I wish I took care of myself. So all these products, we're not just trying to sell you anything. These are products that really help. They help me and I know my fan base and we're all just trying to do this together. So give it a shot, camulabs.com, 14erboulder.com and get right with the THC so we don't have panic attacks. Sometimes we'll have panic attacks.

That's it. Wear condoms, fall in love with life, be present, and I'll see you next week, guys. I love you. Be safe out there, and I'll catch you soon. You tuned in to the third season of Blissful Blah at Andy Fresco's World Saving Podcast

produced by Andy Fresco, Joe Angel and Chris Lawrence. Please subscribe, rate the show on iTunes and Spotify so we can make this a worldwide phenomenon.

For more info on the show please head to Instagram at World Saving Podcast. For more info on blog or tour dates head to andyfresco.com.

Check out the new album Keep On Keepin' On or let any entertain you at a thursday night online shit show or at this crazy saturday night wanna dance with somebody dance parties oh right summer season is here

no festivals no music so instead of trying to keep the lip going and hoping to find some shitty patron boner tuba gigs this summer i decided to rer-route. Build in closets and wardrobes, build a tiny summer house and do some painting. It will be October in no time. And yes, I sort of hate it compared to the wonderful life I live.

But I'm also thankful that people trust my skills or my good looks or whatever. They have my back and I manage to make some money. Big danger in this line of work actually, it pays a lot better than being a musician. All right, how are you doing? Making ends meet? Worried? No work?

Putting on a virtual dance party every week? Let's make sure to carry each other, get one another's backs, keep each other safe, keep each other sane, keep each other healthy. Let's unite, for it will be a long road ahead. See you next week.