Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - From Freeway Off-Ramps to John C. Reilly | Water Tower's Kenny Feinstein

Episode Date: September 29, 2026

Water Tower's Kenny Feinstein convinced 311 frontman Nick Hexum to rehearse at an LA freeway off-ramp with one microphone, no monitors, and cars for an audience. Nick was nervous at first. By the end, he wanted to come back the next day.' This episode is brought to you by JamCut.IO (https://jamcut.io/). If you're a musician and you're tired of making clips all the time, check these guys out! Nick Gerlach talks with Kenny on Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast about playing bluegrass with John C. Reilly, growing up in Singapore and Mexico City, and finding his way from punk rock to traditional music. Kenny also opens up about the years addiction stalled Water Tower, how busking and daily livestreams helped him rebuild, and what he learned about making a living in music. Plus, Kenny tells the story of introducing Nick Hexum to Sierra Ferrell and explains why he calls bluegrass "the punk rock retirement plan."

Today's guest, Kenny Feinstein, has lived all over the world as a child, Singapore, Mexico City. It led to him busking by the highway in L.A. Now he's in a band with legendary musicians like Nick Hexham. He's playing with John C. Riley. John Feinstein, everybody. First thing I want to know is what exit was that? Hey, it's awesome. Thank you.

One of our favorite freeway off ramps is off Highway 134, the Pacific Avenue exit in Glendale. We love it there. Everybody's going to want to find that. All the aspiring bluegrass musicians are going to find that exit so they can get as famous as you. Right. No, I recommend going out there. And in fact, at one point, there were six of us going out. And so I'd be like, you two go on this side.

You two take the east side. And then the other two go to the one down the way. And we're going to pool our money together at the end of the day so that we can make more money that way. I read somewhere you said you made more money by the highway than you did in like commercial areas of L.A. yeah like we we really explored we're probably the only band who moved to l.A. for the traffic or the only people you know what I mean like this is this there's beautiful traffic everywhere which means money and yeah we we studied we have a book with our notes in it that says like oh artizia boulevard cop gave us a finger wag like we only made 20 bucks in this much time so like we've

explored all over LA and you know we were in compton at a spot there for a year we were long Beach Fouille. We did Huntington Beach. We've done all over the valley. But yeah, what we find is that like certain neighborhoods pay up better. And Glendale, there's a lot of generous people, you know, compared to Malibu. I remember we did it in Malibu once. And we did really good. Someone gave us a hundred and another hundred, but the cops came up and goes, what's your name? And I go, Kenny Feinstein. And he writes it down with a pencil. And he goes, never come back here, Kenny Feinstein. That's great, dude. That's funny. I actually had that exact same joke. made about moving to LA for the traffic and my thing. So I guess I stole it from you. But

so is it true you had to move down there because you were banned from busking in Santa Cruz? Yeah, yeah, totally. You know, we were busking in Portland for a while, but it was just raining half the year. So it was like, all of a sudden we can't bust. So we're like, let's go down to California. There's more sunshine. I went to Santa Cruz and ended up getting three tickets within a short span, which was no soliciting within 500 feet of an off ramp, which is like an old law that they were trying to keep, like, prostitutes safe because a lot of times they're getting picked up and stuff like, that's kind of where it came from, the history. But I went to the court and all three cops showed up and I cross-examined them. And I kind of knew the rule, the law pretty well,

because I'd been in trouble a lot with that particular law all around the country. And when I was cross-examining them, they sort of made my case for me, which was, hey, was the case open or closed? Did I have a sign? And it turned out that, you know, basically, I won the cases, all three of them, and the judge was like, I'm going to dismiss these $3,000 worth of tickets. But Kenny, clearly these police don't like you doing this here. So I'm going to have to say, no more busking in Santa Cruz County for the year. So then I was like, all right, I'm going to L.A. Because in L.A., they're down.

The cops tip us, you know. Nothing says the next step in bluegrass music, like moving to L.A. instead of Nashville or Colorado or something, right? Right. So if I went back to 2008, or like, 2008, when you were a bluegrass music, musician, would you believe me when I told you you'd be playing with Dale from stepbrothers in a band 20 years later? Bro, it's funny you mentioned that.

I was thinking about that last night when I was going to bed, just the fact that were with John C. Riley doing this stuff right now, growing up loving his movies. There is no way in any universe could I have ever imagined that. You know, I always wanted to play with my heroes and be able to inspire my heroes. But, you know, I just, I never would have taught, possibly imagine that. And yeah, it's really, he's a special dude. He's very humble. and he's such a talented musician and Spoon's player, you know.

That's the thing about him is like, I'm kind of leery whenever like an actor becomes a musician. You know, they tend to want to do that when they get too famous and bored. Jared Leto comes to mind, you know, people like that. It is funny how they're always the lead singer, though. They never join them become a drummer. So like, being in this band with him, when did, like, what was a moment when it became not like, oh my God, I'm playing with this famous actor to like he's just one of the guys? you know I think yeah pretty much like after we started playing tunes like we just

we found out he like bluegrass a mutual friend introduce us and we started playing old Stanley brothers tunes old bluegrass stuff and he was like hey you know let's let's play some more Stanley brothers and like all right dude why don't you come over next week and we'll do some more and you know just now we're just doing a bunch of we have so much love for traditional music and so we're just you know the water tower featuring john c riley is like a dream come true you know yeah that's awesome it's like kind of cool held down he actually like like that dewe cox movie is a great example he is a great singer like it's not like a musician trying to be a or an actor trying to be musician he literally he can sing which kind of and have you heard what he's doing with mr romantic

that's his main music project uh what's that it's really really cool so yeah john s raleigh is mr romantic that's the um instagram account but it's a It's really beautiful tunes from the 20s and 30s. They're very cinematic and just a lot of, like, jazz standards. And they're an amazing band, you know, Gabe Witchers in that band, who was in the French brothers. Yeah, they're awesome. I'm not like a big bluegrass guy, but I do like them a lot. Oh, yeah, they're special.

So, yeah, Mr. Romantic. I love what John's doing with that. Yeah, he seems like, it's cool. He, like, came to your house and stuff. Like, there's just a lot of, like, Hollywood types of be like, now you come to my house. Yeah, yeah. Totally. He actually drew this.

I got it right here. After our first rehearsally, he made a little self-portrait. On the back of our flyer for the Denver show, actually. There you go, Denver. This will be out before then, I think. So October 3rd, C. Bonte. I'm going to try and pop out. I'm in town, so. Oh, cool, man. Yeah, yeah. John C. Riley just seems like he can do no wrong as like a person and an actor. It seems like he has a very high approval rating. That's enough about him, though. Let's get into your, I want to get into your childhood. I was pretty fast and So you lived in Singapore most of your childhood? Yeah, first of seventh grade.

I was in Singapore. You know, I was born in the Bay Area, California, San Jose. Right. Went to Oregon for a few years. Singapore first to seventh grade. Wow. Yeah, you know, death penalty for marijuana out there. Yes.

And then I moved to Mexico City right after, which is get the marijuana from the cops. You know, like, so this office. Did you live there? Do you remember that a kid? I don't know how old you are. Michael Faye. There you go. Okay, you answered it for me.

Were you there when that happened? Yeah. He went to Singapore American school where he was in my school. Oh, really? He got cane, right? He got, for graffiti. That was a big deal. It was a big deal.

Because, yeah, so that was, I think that was in 1994 from the Clinton administration. And, yeah, he had stole some stop signs and he graffited a few cars. So, you know, just doing some hood rat, you know, ratchet stuff that we do out here. Stuff is not a crime in Cincinnati, like, or whatever. Right, right. What you do is in L.A. here that's what you do. It's in LA here. That's what the kids are doing.

Part of growing up. Right, right. They do not play in Singapore. So the Clinton administration was like, hey, could you please have mercy on them? And they were like, no, pop, pop, pop. And we're talking about serious, like, it hurts when they came. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder what he's doing now.

Yeah, Michael Faye, we should hang out. So, like, what was it like consuming, like, Western and American music when you were living there? Did it get over there? Or like, is it pretty closed off? Like were you getting MTV? Were you getting like American radio? That's a really cool question. Yes, I was, so my family's from Santa Cruz.

Okay. And my only constant in my life was Santa Cruz, California. So like every summer, every Christmas, we'd go back to Santa Cruz, whether in Mexico, we were in Singapore. So all that Santa Cruz culture is what I was consuming because what was happening in the 90s was everywhere. So in Singapore, like Green Day, Blink 182, like skateboarding, that was. was what was, you know, we were focusing on over there, and it was a big part of the culture. So, like, we'd go to the mall and get our skateboards and get our giant junko jeans. Yeah.

I think we're, yeah, I think we were in high school around the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I found out, like, apparently Nick Hexum helped popularize these, which, you know. Yeah, he helped popularize a lot of that stuff. Right, no, exactly. But, but, yeah, there was a lot of that in Singapore. And so we were doing that. And I was just thinking about Santa Cruz and wanting to skate and we skated all day.

And Mexico City, same thing. You know, it was like just punk rock and skateboarding was just such a big part of the culture there. And so I was consuming that. And I'll give you a cool story about that is my first Snoop Dog CD and my first Sublime CD. I'd have to, so I'd go to the store called That CD Shop in the mall. And I'd be like, dude, like, where is the Snoop Dog? And he'd like look both ways and be like, check this out. And right in the middle of the store, there was a display.

case, but the display case looked like just a table, but there was a secret locked drawer underneath it, and he'd pull open the drawer, and there was a cardboard box of Snoop Dogg, no effect. Like doggy style or whatever? Doggy style. All the parental advisory stuff, because that was all illegal in

Singapore, so these were the imported illegal CDs and I'd pay double for them. Yeah, Singapore's pretty interesting. We don't hear enough about them, but it seems like they're more closed off, like, it's not like a religious sort of thing. It's just more like they're kind of conservative like don't make anything dirty like can't you not throw gum on the ground or something

you can't sell gum you can't sell gum yeah and you can't spit gum out if you spit gum out i think it's like a 500 fine but you can't sell it you can't sell it you can't sell it so we'd bring it in you know we'd bring in juicy fruit on the flights oh man the black market must have been great for that so then so then you uh you'd live to mexico city for a while and that's where you like started being a musician right like you're playing punk bands there pretty serious i my when i was I've really started playing guitar in Singapore and skateboarding. But yeah, then I moved to Mexico City, got in a punk band called The Wong Dudes. And we started playing, you know, parties and stuff like that, just doing a bunch of blink

and writing our own songs about, you know, hemorrhoids and poop and all that kind of stuff. And that's really where it got my taste of being in a band when I was 14 in the Wong dudes. And I just was obsessed. So when I moved to Oregon, like a few years later, which probably would still be in Mexico, but a few of my friends' dads got kidnapped in a short six-month period of time. Holy! Right. Finally, our neighbor got kidnapped, and we were like, we have to go.

So I loved it there, but it was just a little hot for that in 2002, 2003. There was a lot going on. Right. But yeah, they just went, you know, punk bands was really the deal. But then I fell in love. Then I went to a foghorn string band square dance. This is like 2003 in Oregon. and my friend brought me, my neighbor up by the water tower,

and he was like, check these guys out. And I walked in, I heard the music, and it was like my blood started dancing or something. It was like I remembered the sound that I'd never heard before. I walked right past all the dancing, which was cool. I was like, that's cool. But I sat on stage for two and a half, three hours, and watched the band and studied every move.

And that became, you know, my life for the next few years was studying Foghorn. And I became their guitar player a few years later because I learned everything, you know, about them. That's pretty interesting. And I have always kind of thought that there's like sort of a there is sort of an intrinsic bond between like punk music and bluegrass music. There's something there. I can't really place it. It might be like the DIY like nature of like just how you get your music out there. But I don't know. I can't really, I'm not a punk. I'm more of like a, I come from a jazz. I'm a sax player. So I come from like a jazz background more. Which I know you actually study jazz too, right? Yeah, I got a jazz degree in guitar. I love jazz too.

Congrats on that. Thank you. But you were you were touring while you were. were getting your degree, right? And like overseas? Yeah, well, I was touring, yeah, we were doing UK tours and all that kind of stuff getting, you know, we were having a lot of success early on with Water Tower right out of high school. We used to be called Water Tower bucket boys. Obviously, we kicked the buckets since then. Literally and figuratively. Right, right. But we're getting a lot of success. But punk rock and bluegrass, like you said, they are meant to be together. And I believe, like you said, I think it has to do with the DIY and just putting, making our own fun out of what we're going to do right now, but it also has to do, I think, with the speed of the music and that, you know,

the vibe of like what we're singing about. A lot of times, it's hard times. It's addiction. It's love lost. And there's just, there's a kinship there. And I always say that, punk, that bluegrass is the punk rock retirement plan. That's a pretty good line, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, like metal, too. I think there's like a, you know the kitchen dwellers? Love the kitchen dwellers. We're releasing a single with them pretty soon here. there you go great plug yeah it's a rancid cover oh hell yeah we yeah we perfect i mean that like basically sums up everything we're talking about but we had touring on a couple months ago he's a good buddy he lives here in denver and he was we were talking about how like metal also and and uh

but that's more like the physical component of like playing the guitar i think is like with metal so were you skipping a lot of class when you're on tour and going to university of oregon no i i was uh i mean i would miss some for sure for sure but i was always practicing like uh one of my greatest memories of that was we had things called juries which you probably remember if you studied jazz at which a jure like what a terrifying word right a jury where they're going to judge your music right and there'd be like the board of all your teachers and they're they're taking notes on your playing so i was terrified of jury so i wanted to sound good for it so i remember one time after a show in san francisco uh we played till midnight we loaded out got home at 2 a m where we're going to stay and then i had still had an hour at least

of practicing to keep up because if if you don't practice your stuff you got to you're going to be held back. You'd be held back, right? So then my buddy in the van at that time came out with me, Golden Gate Park, just to watch because I had a fancy guitar with me. He just stood there while I practiced skills and did my tunes for about an hour. So, you know, I was super dedicated to making sure I did it right in school too because I love jazz music. What did you have like a Gibson, L5 or something or some hollow body? It was a Gibson, Tal Farlow. Oh, wow. Tal Farlow was my guy. He's really, I didn't like jazz so much as I just like, Tal Farlow and Miles Davis and I just

love their style so I just broke it down and but it was yeah it was a fancy guitar you know I grew up in Indiana so we're all West Montgomery heads around there oh yeah I love Wes too you know you know and I love Wes's story he inspired me because I heard a story that Wes had whatever three

or five kids and he would work all day in the coal mines yeah and he was a milk delivery milk delivery guy yeah yeah milk delivery guy too work all day in the coal mines come home have dinner shower and then go and playing the clubs from like 8 till 2 a.m. And then, you know, sleep for two hours and do it again.

Like, what a dedicated dude, you know. Rough life. But I actually used to play with his like, when I was like in out of college, Melvin Ryan, the organ player on his like last three records, I used to play with him like every Tuesday. And then he, well, he obviously died. Dude, I learned so, I learned more on those Tuesday nights. Not to talk about me, but I learned more on those Tuesday nights playing with him than I

did it in four years of music school. It was like, because he would teach you how to solo without telling you how to solo. like it's just like a hang you know like a Tuesday night jazz gig like you can come sit in and uh i'd be soloing and like he wouldn't tell you something's good but he'd like viscerally react if you played something he liked you know what i'm saying so he'd like you know he just give you a yeah man as he's playing and like you're just like okay catalog that if melvin ryan says it's good it's good right yeah oh that's so cool yeah so that was like you were kind of just cataloging in your brain and be like that's something he liked that so that can help develop your style yeah exactly

like it wasn't really like you should play that don't go to the four here, you know, like, do this up here. It was more like, that was dope. Yeah, oh, I love that. That's so cool, man. What a cool experience. To be fair, that's like a, maybe a better way to learn music, I feel like. Honestly, I think so, you know, at the end of my, like, I was five years in the jazz program. It was just me and the director at one point, and I was like, so what, like, give me, give me the wisdom, give me the secret. Like, what's the, what would you tell me to do, like, if I just wanted to, like, skip all the school stuff, like, you know, or just kind of curious. He was like, look, just learn.

Your favorite people's solos. That's it. Forget everything else. Just learn the solos. Transcribing is in the way. Yeah, I think there's a lot of good arguments that maybe jazz shouldn't even be taught in college. All right. Hope you're enjoying the interview.

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Go to fucking Jamcut. All right. Hey, boys. What about Jamcut? You love they fucking love it. Less work for Frasca means happy band. All right, bye, bye, bye. So you didn't come from musical family then, right? So you were kind of like the, were you kind of the black sheep because he were into music? Were you a military brat or like, why were you moving around so much as a kid?

No, this is my dad's job. He was business stuff. Like, but no, not military. I was just, yeah, fortunate to move around with them. But, yeah, not a musical family. I just got bit by the bug, very young age, listening to the Beatles, you know, and the Beach Boys and then, you know, just when I found, you know, metal, rap and punk, I was like, this is, you know, the 90s, peak 90s, you know, corn, 311. Limp Biscuit. No effects. Limp Biscuit.

Obviously, yeah. My first foray in the press was I did a, I wrote for the school newspaper a CD review of significant other and it was my first piece of press I ever did. I'm of the opinion that like West Borland's like one of the top 10 guitar. genius of the last 25 years. Oh, yeah. Totally. You know, we were talking about West the other day and how we would love to play with him. And I'm going to see what I can't arrange. I think I know somebody who knows somebody. He's down to, like, do whatever it seems like. You know, he's in, like, I can't remember it's either, I think Hans Zimmer or Danny Elfman, he's like in their touring band. Oh, wow. That makes sense. Yeah, he put out a great record called Big Dumb Face, which is solo record.

And I absolutely love that record, nothing like it, you know. I think he's impacted like a, guitar playing them an incredible amount without ever taking a solo yeah yeah totally it's like reverse eddie van halen that's so interesting you're reverse eddie van halen that's cool so you had water tower then you moved to l a day then it seems like there's a little lull like you kind of stopped for a while what was what was kind of happening with the band that like people who come into your shows like couldn't see that like kind of made you stop for a while yeah yeah good good question so water Our Tower has 20 years of history, really. You know, we started in 05 at the Water Tower in Lake Oswego, Oregon, outside of Portland.

Hell yeah. And we had a lot of success. By 2008, we're touring the world. We're doing really well. We're kids. And we have access to all this stuff that went on our wildest dreams. I started getting really involved in extracurricular activities, you know, drugs and alcohol. So then basically it all came crashing down 2013.

and from 2013 until 2020, I was working on a record with Don Bowles from the germs. And that was when I was moving from Portland to Santa Cruz to L.A. and trying to figure my life out. So basically what happened in those seven years is I couldn't get my stuff together because I was struggling so much. But I'm so grateful. So Water Tower, you know, we kicked the bucket.

We became Water Tower in 2020. So we're a new band with a lot of history. And then I found my guys who I'm with now. We've been together, you know, me and talk. Tommy, and we've been together since 2020. So this is our sixth year back as Water Tower. And we're about to put out our, essentially our first record. Like, yeah, we put out a record in 2020 to say, hey, we're back.

But that was the record I've been working on for years with Don Bowles. And it doesn't include our lineup. So we actually don't have a record out that is indicative. Like we have bootlegs. We put out a bunch of bootlegs, like live from Telly Ride, but those aren't released. So our first album as Water Tower, after 20 years of working on it, essentially, is coming out. at the beginning of next year. Oh, like, you didn't even have a proper album with, like, the first,

because you were pretty much busting. Like, you weren't really like, you were like a live band almost. Well, yeah, I mean, we put out bucket boys records. Like, we, you know, there's five bucket boys records. There's a Water Tower string band record. Oh, I see. Water Tower has a record out from 2020. Like I said, that Don Bowles, the drummer, the germs put out.

But we don't have a record. And we have five bootlegs. So there's a bunch of CDs and stuff out. But in my mind, our first record is coming out with this lineup, who we've been developing our sound of the last five, six, years. That's dope. So, like, that's kind of interesting that it was 2020 when it happened. I, I hate talking about COVID, but it's just kind of apropos of this conversation. Was COVID sort of, like, did you take that chance to sort of like rebirth the band and kind of like change everything? Or did

it sort of happen naturally? Yes. No, that was a rebirth. Because me and Tommy were busking every day at the freeway off from at that point. I was teaching him banjo and teaching him about bluegrass. He's already a great musician, but he had never, you know, I was like, come out and busk with me because he was doing a job doing different jobs and he saw what kind of money I was making on the off ramp and he's I was like dude quit your job live with me we'll go learn bluegrass at the side of the road and he's like all right I'm in dude and uh basically we started busking every day then COVID hit and we couldn't go outside anymore and we were like dude we had all this momentum and energy from busking every day and he was like why don't we busk online and I was like dude good point

so we set up at 12 and 5 every single day and we went live on you know Facebook Periscope at the time, Instagram, and YouTube, and we would just go live every single day for months and months and months, and we rebuilt our fan base and learned a lot of our songs that way from going live and doing the online thing, which, by the way, I was completely against social media, essentially before that.

I was like, I don't want to do that. I'm going to get, we're going to make our fans one fan at a time at the freeway off ramp. Very punk rock. Right, right, exactly. That was what we lived. But then once we had to make an about face, I was like, all right, we're going to use this system to our advantage.

I mean, there's like pretty much nothing else you could do at that time either. It's like either that or fail, you know? Right, exactly. You're the internet. Do you think like streaming twice a day helped keep you sober? Oh, for sure. For sure, for sure. Like, you know, the off ramp was my system.

Like me and Tommy, like we'd go out every morning like 6, 7 a.m. We'd be there by 6.30 or 7 for the morning rush. And that was our job. And so like we, but then the streaming too, you know, making sure. Because then our fans were depending on us. If we were one minute late, texts, messages, like, it was crazy. Like, where are you? Where are you? Where are you? This was like having our fans depend on us for our music and our company was a big deal.

And it got to a level where we started like streaming. We called it the Lurker Cam. And we'd have a cam right here, which basically showed this room. And it was doing eight hours a day. And they would like just hang out with us while. Tommy would fall asleep in that chair. I'd just be practicing. So we'd have some people there who were like the Truman Show with us eight hours a day,

like on a separate camera. That's pretty wild, man. Yeah, yeah. Did you ever accidentally stream anything you didn't mean to? Oh, plenty of times. Shit, I didn't, I didn't mean to bring my Tinder date over.

We're supposed to be quarantined right now. There is something to be in watch, though, that'll keep you sober, huh? No, totally. Yeah, the accountability and the fans, you know, help keep us stable, and it's a beautiful relationship. And, you know, the owls, our fans,

call themselves the owls. They perch on top of the water tower to make sure that no adulterants get added to the clean water supply which we all drink from. Is that how the... I was going to ask you about that. Is that how the fan club named started, the owls?

Yeah, actually, I was looking over there because there's a bunch of owl stuff in my room already. And every day I would say by by showing everything around my room and there's so many owls. And the last thing I would end on was a little owl lamp I had over here

and I think it's in the other room right now. But I would say owl out, owl out, kind of like peace out. And so they started being like, owl out, owl out. And eventually someone, I don't know who it was, was like, yeah, we're like the owls in your room. And so that's kind of how it started there. That's crazy. So were you like into owls or something?

They are pretty fascinating animals, by the way. Well, the weird thing is, like, I wasn't consciously into owls. It was the fans who helped reflect that back because, you know, they, there was just so much owl stuff around my room. Like, there just is. But it was, it wasn't on purpose. It was a total accident. You know, musicians and owls, so we have a lot in common. We're pretty nocturnal.

we've got to be silent when we move. Totally. Some of them are predators. We can turn, yeah, yeah, we can turn our heads all the way around. Yeah, exactly, so we don't get robbed on it by the highway. So you were doing the sober thing and you were doing all that. Is that kind of how you started working with Nick Hexham? Yeah, Nick.

Yeah, we, a mutual fan introduced us in the L.A. music community. And then, you know, we, yeah, we just really hit it off. and, you know, basically, he was getting into Americana and Bluegrass, and he was always into it, but he wanted to learn it. So he found out I taught mandolin and banjo, so I started giving him mando lessons, and I started giving him banjo lessons, started talking about it. And then one day he said, hey, why don't you come to my house for a lesson? We started jamming, and then we wrote five songs.

And then it was just one of those things to, like, some people, there's a chemical reaction. And we had that chemical reaction when we got together. and we wrote five songs in and it was like, well, let's write some more. And all of a sudden there was an album and it was his solo record, phases of hope and hollow.

Then he's like, I was like, dude, are we going to tour this? He's like, I don't know, dude. Like, I don't really have any plan. Like, we were just following this path. And then all of a sudden he's like, I think we should tour it. And I was like, well, I have a band.

And so Water Tower came over. We shot music videos. We went on tour. And I just talked to him today, actually. And I think we're going to go on tour pretty soon, I think again. Yeah, he's been on the pod, too, in the path.

He's like super down to earth and easy to get along with I found. He's so cool. So humble. He doesn't have any air about him. 311 is a fascinating band to me. It's like, I have like, you know, I had a phase with them, but they're like one of those bands where no one else sounds like 311. Nobody.

If you hear 311, whether you like them or not, you have to admit they have their own thing. The second you hear 311, you know it's 311. Like his voice mixed with that guitar stuff. I kind of always appreciate that about that about like different bands. Does he have that going on with the bluegrass thing too or the Americana thing? thing. Yeah, totally, because you just, you hear Nick, you know, in 311 and in the solo stuff that we're writing for this project. And his voice is so unique, but so are, you know, his lyrics. And he's really been experimental in this. And, you know, we would show our influences to each other. I'd be like,

hey, check this song out. And he would show me stuff. And, you know, he loves Sierra Farrell. We love Sierra Farrell. And a dream comes true. Right, right, who does it? A cool moment for him was like, I was like, Sierra came to a square dance with us that we were doing in L.A. We do a lot of square dances out here. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, there's a great square dancing scene in L.A.

And on the West Coast and gym, right? I know nuts, right? The only time I ever square dance was in gym class. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, me too. Yeah, but I didn't really get it then, you know. But yeah, so Sierra came up and I was like, hey, Nick, you should come. And I'm going to introduce you guys.

So on stage, there's a video of it on TikTok somewhere and ended up going viral. I was like, hey, Sierra, I would love to introduce you to my. friend, this is Nick from 311, and Nick has the biggest smile on his face because, you know, he loves Sierra's music so much. And she goes, oh, what's up, Nick? Whoa, Amber is the color of your energy. And he smiled so big. It was the cutest thing, man. And that is awesome. Somewhere on TikTok, them meeting for the first time. Three 11's, yeah, that's, yeah, that's, that's pretty, Sierra Farrell, I've never met her, but she seems like really, she kind of has a similar, probably path to you, actually. She came up as a busker. I know she's doing, she's like a sober kind of person, too.

Doesn't she also work with John C. Riley now? Did you introduce them? She introduced us. Okay. Yeah. So you're like in the bluegrass Illuminati now or something. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. Sierra's wonderful. And I think that's part of why we get along musically. You know, we got to do with play Del Fest with Sierra, like Water Tower feature in Sierra Farrell last year. And, you know, it fits together so well. We didn't even have to rehearse that much because I think we had that busking street, like a lot of common songs.

and just like a, it felt really good. Yeah, and it's bluegrass, so it's all in G anyway, so. Right, it's all in G anyway, well. Her fiddling's getting so, like, she's such an amazing fiddler. Yeah, and so we did a lot of double fiddle stuff, and, yeah, I love her fiddling. Yeah, so you, it seems like every, I was like watching a bunch of your band's videos the last few days. Thank you. What instrument do you, like, every time I go on there, you're playing a different instrument.

What is your, like, when people ask you, like, what do you play a water tower, what do you tell them? I usually just say I play guitar and fiddle, you know. Yeah, yeah. I really am a guitarist. Like, I love guitar, but fiddle, I have so much fun playing. And fiddle was my off-ramp instrument because you make so much more money playing fiddle on the off-ramp than a guitar. It is a little more visually appealing to people driving by in 30 seconds. And it's louder, too.

You know, and the only problem was it sometimes would rain out here. So I'd play a recorder when it rained. And the other thing I did to make it more interesting is I would Crip Walk while playing Fiddle so I'd be a Crip Walking Fiddler, right? So I'd be, and actually side story, I got a whole, I was on two Netflix shows from the Crip Walking Fiddle.

I was on 10 episodes out of a 12 country ever after show with a country singer who was first thing he said to me pulls up in a shruggy goes, are you Crip Walking playing Fiddle? And I was like, yeah, he's like, oh, oh hell no, pull over, come talk to me. And I ended up joining his band for like three years. And yeah, we got TV shows and stuff.

but that was all to tell you was I was playing recorder in the rain one time, cripp walking through traffic, playing recorder, and this guy rolled his window down, and I didn't realize how difficult this must have looked. For me, I was just like, this is what I have to do to pay the rent. But the rain was coming down. I'm cripp walking playing recorder, and this guy, he's like, hold my hand. And I grabbed his hand, and he starts doing this crazy prayer for me,

like yelling it, and the rain's pouring down. And it turned green, but this guy wasn't going to go. So there's four lanes of traffic all going. everyone's honking. We're in the rain. He's praying for me. And it was just like out of a movie. And I remember it was such a seminal moment because I felt the rain coming down. Cars are honking. I'm holding my recorder and getting soaked. And this guy's giving me this prayer. I remember thinking like it's, it's going to get a lot better for me. But I didn't realize how gnarly it was until I saw, like, I came out of myself for that moment, you know? Yeah, it is pretty interesting. Like, you don't realize how hard something you did was until

after you did it or someone shows you how hard it was. Because you're like when you're in the moment, you don't really get it, you know, because you're just doing it. Yeah, yeah. But I'm grateful for all that time and all the hard times I went to because now I get to be here and talk to you and learn about you. You know, it's cool. One thing that's really changed my life of how I control anxiety and how I control, going through my day-to-day of partying and playing really hard every night and going into back to being a normal person during the day. I've been doing this thing called contrast therapy.

It's basically I go in a sauna for 45 minutes. I do 15 minute intervals three times. And then I'll do a cold plunge between two to three minutes every other time. And through that, I've seen my dopamine level dramatically grow. I have been the happiest I've been for a long time. And it's all because of OTHER Ship. Othership is a New York and Toronto-based company that gave me a safe space to find myself again with their amazing saunas, their amazing cold plunges and amazing community.

I started journaling again. They gave me the opportunity to journal in the saunas. They gave me the opportunity to get deeper into my mind and get more comfort in the idea of being okay with myself. What I love about it, the community that other ship has brought me has really opened my mind that I don't need to go to the bars every night anymore. I could go and talk to people outside of a social community that required alcohol or party. And I could go in there and feel healthy and talk to people and communicate. And that's one thing that othership has brought to my life that has changed my life. So if you're in the New York area, you should definitely try out othership.

They got a great app, great. community and Toronto too. I know a lot of people listen to this podcast in Toronto too. But I go every day and it has changed the way I perceived life. It's changed the way I find happiness in the mundane parts of the day. So go check out othership. I guarantee you you will not regret it. All right. Back to the interview. I thought it's pretty interesting that you got Nick Hexton to perform by the freeway. How did he adjust from like, you know, playing like amphitheaters to playing to people on their Uber on the way to Arawan. Oh my gosh, that is so funny.

And you totally understand L.A. and the whole vibe. Airwine. So, yes, we had just watched him Rock Warp Tour, 80,000 people. They were the headliner at Warp Tour Long Beach. And it was so cool to see him, you know, shirt off, rocking the crowd, everybody's singing. And then... Hot guy, by the way. He can take his shirt off in public.

Oh, dude. Yeah. It's demanded. And so then everyone's... So basically he was like, he called me, and he's like, all right, we got to rehearse, right, for this tour coming up. You know, time was running out. And I was like, we'll come out to the off ramp with us. And he's like, okay, all right, cool.

He's like, you know, normally with 311, there's like, you know, monitor guy, sound guy, metronome, tour manager. But a whole bunch of people just to get the sound right. And he's like, what's our sound system going to be like? What's our sound setup? I was like, we're going to have one microphone, no monitors. That's it, dude, just us in the mic.

And he's like, okay, all right, cool. and I think what a saint for trusting me because this must have sounded insane but it is it does it sounds insane right and so I was like we're going to practice at the off ramp because we might as well practice in front of people and we can make a little bit of coin while we're doing it and he called me like the day before or the morning of and he was like dude I don't know if we should do this man like let's reschedule I was like bro this is our last chance to do it and he's like okay okay I'm coming found out he was a little nervous so he got there and he's like I'm a little nervous right now dude I'm like, bro, it's going to be, and this is crazy, by the way. I had just seen him rock Warp Tour. I was like, it's going to be cool. Just trust me, come on out here.

We're going to play some tunes. If you don't like it after one song, we can come back to the car, send you home. But he loved it so much. He started doing rock star kicks, and he started talking to every person and just loving it. And at the end, he was almost in tears. He was like, bro, let's do this again tomorrow. This was like so liberating and so fun. And, you know, it was just such a beautiful experience.

And we're going to do it again in a couple weeks to get ready for our next thing. that's awesome do you guys like video it and put it out on youtube and stuff or do you keep it pretty like are you not trying to like get that on social media as much no we we live streamed it uh people recognized him there's viral videos like if you look up like nick hexum at our off ramp like you'll you'll find that type of stuff and uh you know i think we even did a couple big songs out there big 311 songs and uh yeah no it's it's out there and he had a great time he's just so humble and it helped give him an edge to the 311 show like I noticed and I heard from a few other people that there were some stuff that he incorporated

from our busing sessions that he was doing at the 3-11 shows. So he came original. He came original, bro. He was flowing with it, you know. His energy was amber all day. Yeah, baby. I love that. That's cool.

That's kind of interesting that he's doing that now. I always kind of like am fascinated by people, because he's probably in his 50s, right? I would imagine. I think so, yeah. I mean, he's older than us and he was famous when we were in high school, so he's got to be. Right. But like, it's always interesting to me when I guess John C. Rale is the same thing. You keep hooking up with these people that are like changing streams later in their career. But it's

kind of good for you because they're like excited to be there because it's new for them. Right. It's new for them. It's what I've been doing this whole time. Like my whole life is what I've done. So it's, it's cool to have the industry kind of come to see what I'm doing, which is like just a standing at a freeway off ramp essentially. But but I built our, like, our, we built our whole career and everything we do at the freeway off ramp because like it's a great incubation ground for we write all our songs there we do our practice there we learn our tunes there that's where i learned to play fiddle so it's just a great place to to get better and it's a tough environment so you know it when you get on stage it's going to be a lot easier um you know and yeah it's been cool

working with our heroes though you know it's like we're we're gonna be working with jim from penny wise coming up on something we just put out a song yeah yeah and we just put out a song with mike Carrera from MXPX. It was like one of our new songs, and he loves Bluegrass too, and Jim loves Bluegrass. And yeah, man, it's been really cool. I wonder if all these old punk guys like Bluegrass, because their hearing's getting

bad, and they're like... Right. Punk rock environment playing. The big thing we announced today, though, which we're really excited about is we're, if you remember Real Big Fish's record, turned the radio off. I was a sax player in high school band in the early 2000s.

I used to love Real Big Fish. Yeah. What? So it's the 30-year anniversary of Turn the Radio off, and we're going to be main support for that Garden Amphitheater in December, so we get to open for real big fish, and it's so exciting. And we're doing some Bluegrass Scott with them, so we'll see what's coming out of that next. That's kind of crazy. You know, well, Bluegrass and Scott, another thing, like the upstroke thing. Like, there is a total connection there, I think, like, musically, like, with the guitar

playing and both those things. Yeah, yeah, totally. It's pretty interesting. That's crazy they're still going. I don't really check them out, like I got to get back into it. Are they still making new stuff? They took seven years off. They broke up seven years ago.

This is their first show back. Okay, that's why. Okay, that makes sense. The Wiltern, yeah. That's pretty crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Damn, ska, punk, bluegrass. I like that you're playing recorder and doing square dances.

So, like, half your careers just revolved around stuff. We did a middle school gym class and like, or like, you know, I mean, record. Did they make you play the recorder in school too? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Square dancing, recording. Although maybe you didn't have to do that because you were in Singapore. No, I did. We had to do it, yeah.

that's so funny so like another thing with bluegrass is like you're in L.A., which like I'm sure there's a lot of bluegrass there's probably a bluegrass scene in L.A.

because there's just every kind of scene in L.A. You know what I mean? But do you ever feel like when you're out in the road like meeting other bluegrass musicians or in the at a festival

do you ever feel like outcasts or like they look down on you because you didn't move to Denver or Nashville? No, no, I never feel that. That's funny.

But I do, we do get that reaction of like bluegrass in L.A. like that happens a lot um but there's so much great history here you know it's like tony rice like front grew up early years in the area you know nickel cree clarence white you know a lot of the jerry and uh the dairy stuff obviously norcal yeah um lonesome l a cowboy you know peter rowen one of the bluegrass boys and and really the beverly hillbillies was lesser flat and earl scrugs was a big reason why the world and why the country saw bluegrass was the

introduction of beverly hillbillies so like l.A is a big part of bluegrass history that people don't and California Bluegrass Association is the largest bluegrass association on the planet. So there's more bluegrass here than anywhere else, actually. That's the great answer. You shut me down. But, yeah. But, you know, still, though, like culturally, people don't really see it as that way. But that's pretty interesting.

No, totally. And there's just so many people here that, you know. Exactly. Yeah. I think the association for everything is probably the biggest in California because there's like 50 million people there. Right, right. So you have a book, too. I look this up.

I want to get into your movie before we get out of here, but I want to talk about this book. More than Talent, seven steps to attain the brand, acquire the gigs, and amass lifetime fans. My question is,

how long does you write this book? Okay. Do you ever, like, do you regret, like, in this world of, like, short... Oh, you got it right there. You can hold it up for camera. So, yeah, seven steps

to attain the brand, acquire the gigs, and amass lifetime fans. With people's attention span right now, do you think you can get it down to five steps for me? yeah totally i mean the goal with this book was to

i've read all the music industry books and some of them are tomes and that's great but i wanted to have the shortest oh it's really short yeah it i wanted the shortest possible quickest music industry book on how to make it how to start making money today so that was the goal what's the shortest quickest possible thing um and it basically comes down to invest in yourself step one step two dominate social media step three busk step four Play shows. Step 5, get on these certain websites that are going to help you help sell for you. Step 6, run a more Fans Now campaign, which is something that I helped come up with. And step

seven, dominate your mailing list. So it's a system for fan acquisition and the psychology of that and how to make sure that you can become the best artist possible and then monetize your career. And it's not just for musicians for anyone in the entertainment industry. Actually hit number one in the music business as well as performing arts entertainment last month. So I was pretty stoked. I like that because it's not about like trying to get famous. It's about making a living. It's about making money. Yep.

Because fame doesn't equal money. It doesn't. A lot of, yeah, and actually being rich is way better than being famous. Right, right, exactly. Right. And anybody can be famous now with, because internet famous. So it's like it, you could become famous, but that doesn't really, that's like, that's an occupational hazard more than anything.

You can't put fame in a DGIA account and get 8% for the rest of your life either. Right, right, exactly. So let's talk about this movie, though. The bluegrass movie. Just give everybody the rundown about it. Just give us your spiel. Yeah, no, I'm just, I'm super excited about the bluegrass movie. What's it called?

It's called Rings of Time. And we don't know when it's going to come out, but, but yeah, we'll, that's all right. Check out the bluegrass movie on Instagram. That's all I got for that for now. Okay, that's okay. So we're still early enough in it. Cool. That's awesome.

All right. I guess I just got, I think I've taken up enough of your time here. Dude, I love your questions. This has been such an awesome interview, like, super, super fun. And I appreciate learning to learn a little bit more about you, too. And I hope we get to play some jazz sometime. Dude, who's your guy again? Tal Faro.

Tal Farlow. Yeah, yeah. Who's your favorite sax player? I mean, dude, bird, you know, like. Also, also bluegrass connection there. Yes, yeah, with the lines, right? Charlie Parker could sit in with the bluegrass band like right now and just rip. Like he's playing mandolin lines with a little bit more chromaticism,

but I feel like he could walk into a bluegrass hang and just shred. Oh, yeah, totally, totally. I mean, we studied him so deeply in college. And Tal Farlow's style is essentially, you know, his whole thing, I feel like. You know, and when I really went into Bird, like I looked in the Omni book and I feel like he has a few signature licks. He does. And he just sort of ornaments his basic.

like three or five favorite things. It's really cool. There's only like 12 notes, you know, but, and I think there's a thing with like the 40s and 50 sex players where like a lot of their stuff that's coming out of rhythm changes and blues, which is kind of like 90% of like what Americana music or like modern Americana music is still doing. Yeah. I think that's like why him opposed to like Wayne Shorter or like John Coltrane, they wouldn't

work as good over bluegrass. But Charlie Parker's pretty much, have you checked out Eddie Barbash? No, but I've heard that name. Why am I heard it so much? He is, uh, he was a, he was a set. Max player in like Stephen Colbert's Tonight Show band for a while. He plays like Corey Wong a lot. He has kind of mastered bluegrass. I don't know if you could say mastered. But he's created a sound and like a thing built around bluegrass music, which is so unique. And he's also like one of the best sax players ever heard of my life. But he also has a, he's like, I think people are going to be listening to him in him in a hundred years. But as a bluegrass guy, you got to dig in on him a little bit. No, I've definitely, I've definitely know Eddie Barbash. Now that you reminded me, yes, I've seen him play. He's a, amazing.

amazing. So cool. And when he does the bluegrass thing, it's like a guy who's studied bluegrass, not like a sax player who's like, look, check this, like this is cool. Like, you know, like he's actually done the homework. Oh, yeah. He plays in the idiomatic way. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Great, great use of the word idiomatic. Great. That's a student loan word right there. Student loan word, bro. All right. One last question. Yeah, one last question for you before we get out of here. Okay, so your career, obviously, like, like you said, you guys had a, you kicked the bucket for a while. You had a lot of hills and valleys. Yeah. What would you tell

someone who's struggling to get momentum in their career to either get it back or just get through it? The key for me is one day at a time. Be gentle with yourself, one day at a time, and just never give up. Because this is a marathon.

So just keep going, keep pressing through it, take care of yourself. Drink water, eat good food, exercise. and just keep going. Go for a walk. Do your best. Your best is going to vary from day to day,

but do your best one day at a time. You're going to make it through this. I love that advice, man. All right. Kenny, thank you. Thanks a lot for joining us on the World Savant Podcast, dude. Hey, thanks for having me.

It's been a blast talking to you, Nick. You're the man. Everyone check out Water Tower Band. They're playing with John C. Riley. I think you're playing with them tonight, aren't you? Yeah, we're playing tonight in L.A. Elysium? I think Frasco's actually.

Yeah, the Elision Theater, yeah. Frasco's not here today. He's actually, he's actually. I think he's playing in L.A. tonight. I'll look it up. Yeah, he's at Venice West. Oh my gosh, tonight? Oh, my gosh. I can't believe that. Yeah, isn't that weird? So that's why you're stuck with just me, unfortunately.

Thanks, thanks a lot, Kenny. Hey, thanks for having me.