Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - Grahame Lesh on Phil Lesh's Legacy, 10,000 Sit-Ins & Golden Gate Park's Grateful Dead Celebration

Episode Date: July 29, 2025

Grahame Lesh sits down with Andy Frasco and Nick Gerlach to discuss the monumental task of organizing the Golden Gate Park Grateful Dead 60th anniversary celebration. Graham opens up about processing his father Phil Lesh's passing while honoring his legacy through music. Topics Discussed: The "10,000 sit-ins" concept and musical directing challenges Processing grief while celebrating Phil Lesh's incredible life Growing up in the Grateful Dead community and finding his own musical path The impact of Terrapin Crossroads on Bay Area musicians The Grateful Dead legacy as a "tree with many branches" Behind-the-scenes stories from a life in the Dead family Building community through improvisational music Links: Grahame Lesh: https://www.grahamelesh.com Midnight North: https://midnightnorth.com Watch this episode now on Volume.com & YouTube. We're psyched to partner up with Volume.com! Check out their roster of upcoming live events and on-demand shows to enrich that sweet life of yours. Call, leave a message, and share your best Grateful Dead memory: [phone] Check out our new album Growing Pains on all platforms 5/23/25!! Follow us on Instagram @worldsavingpodcast For all things Frasco, go to: AndyFrasco.com

So much of the music we make is creative, even in a non-songwriter kind of a way. You know, we're improvising every time we get on stage and we're creating things every time we get on stage. And that's the spirit and the ethos of the Grateful Dead music. My dad used to say we never played anything the same way once. It's something he always kind of instilled in us, especially in the last 10, 15 years when he had the music venue, Terrapin Crossroads, right down the road from where I am. All of us young kids would just go play in the bar every night and just figure it out. Just get up there and go figure out how to be a musician and how to improvise.

We should write together, bro. 100%. And we're live, Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. I'm Andy Frasco. Grateful Dead Edition. Hello. Big show. GD60.

GD60 is this week and there's something special about that because Grateful Dead are playing in San Francisco for their 60th anniversary. Let's do it. The dead in tow, you mean. So our guest this week is Mr. Graham Lesh, Phil Lesh's son, who's doing a big old show, and he asked me to be on it and a hundred other jam bands. There's a lot of artists. And we just interviewed him. So I felt like, and we were talking about Shapiro.

The mastermind. The mastermind who's setting this whole thing up. So I thought we'd call him. You think he's going to make another Rainbow? What? You don't remember that? Yeah. Hey, Peter Shapiro on the Andy Frasco podcast.

What's up, buddy? Yeah. Yeah, I'm in a parking lot. But you know, when you text and, you know, say, hey, what are you doing? And you're in a parking lot. You just say, I'm talking to you. Fucking love you. What's going on?

I, you're giving, I was wondering, I think about Graham Lesh and his mental health every time you add another fucking musician onto this. We call it, I mean, this is a podcast podcast we can say it's more like a fuck fest It's a jam band gangbang Peter Shapiro. No, it's family. It's just a fun party. Yeah, it's just not a normal show So we just kind of like keep going and that's you know, it's gonna be super fun and just a nice hopefully and keep going. And that's, you know, it's gonna be super fun. And just a nice, hopefully, addendum to what's happening in the park. Some yin and yang action. I love it. And you got the Giants involved? How'd you get the Giants involved? I think, you know, they're looking to do, they have this amazing huge

hanger that's next to Oracle Park on the pier. That's where this thing is. And Jonathan shank is an old friend who's like helps them with music stuff. And they were interested in creating something. And I came up with some ideas and it should be a really cool melding of like, it's going to be a lot of visual, a lot of visuals, a lot of visuals, a lot of eye candy, a lot of great music, but this thing's giant. Yeah, dude, it looks huge. When I see you, like the biggest building structure, anyone listening to it goes,

they'll have to tell me, like was I right or wrong? I'll do it to Keila Shaw. I'd say, you'll tell me that it was the largest structure you've ever been in your life. Are you serious? Groundwide, not like height-wise. Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah. You'll have to tell me when we're there. I can't wait. It's really big. Yeah, there you go. That's the pitch from the parking lot. I love it.

It's the biggest. You like big buildings? Come on out. The king of the pitch. If you like big buildings. I think you're gonna have to like lots. So I just got off the phone with Graham and I said I'd call you and ask. So he had this idea where we should build a mound, like a pitcher's mound, and have

the musicians in there. Bullpen, you mean bullpen. Bullpen. Bullpen. call you and ask. So he had this idea where we should build a mound, like a pictures mound, and have the musicians in there. Bullpen. You mean bullpen. Like a bullpen. Yeah, yeah. In front of the stage, on the ground, like on the GF4. Maybe on the, yeah, somewhere on the left of it or the right. And then Graham could say, hey, come on in. And then it's like the musicians come in from the-

Oh, you wind up. You get in there and you're standing there and they pull you in. Do you think you could pull this off? I don't know. I'll think about it. But I'm in a good spot. I'm outside in a parking lot. And so the pictures, man, I kind of... I mean, I see where you're...

It's with the Giants, you know? It's like kind of like, it'd be cool for Graham to like be like the quarterback or the power forward or... Jake Peeby's gonna be there. Yeah, that's what I heard. Coachman's doing the visuals and Roger we have an amazing team that's working there'll be a lot of. I think it would be cool to like say hey Colin Krasno and he's walking in from the bullpen dude. Yeah some chew. Yeah I'm into it. Alright cool. I'm gonna go get some baseball mitts. Alright, goodbye. Thank you. Love you, buddy.

Love you, see you next week. Goodbye. The greatest. Peter Shapiro is one of the greatest promoters since Bill Graham, right? I don't have an argument. Who else is doing shit like this besides like Don Strasburg and like you know the boys in Philly Michael Burks pretty John Hampton's been doing some killer shit Michael Burbs pretty good Burks doing some shit, but not like this Lula Wayne, he's Chicago 50-year going to the fucking soldier field then 60-year going to fucking Golden Gate Park. Well, he's go Order fucking legend. I want I hope he makes another rainbow again. Remember he did that at gd-50 Yeah, oh that'd be seeming I wonder if there's gonna be like a holographic Jerry or a holographic Phil or to a drone Or holographic I could totally see I could totally see them doing like a holla like a drone show of Jerry

listening and then and Phil listening That'd be weird. I'd be almost like too much. I feel like but that's kind of his vibe though. It's kind of the vibe You know, they're gonna do something. They're gonna do something. I'm very be wild. I wish I could go the whole thing I gotta go we gotta do Levitt Pavilion. I'm only there Thursday Levitt Pavy So grab your ticket if you're not going to San Francisco grab your tickets to Levitt Pavilion. Yeah, they're free. They're free It's literally free. All right guys, enjoy Graham Lesh and we'll catch you next week.

We're gonna go make a rainbow. We're gonna go make a rainbow. I played a GD50 after party the last night. It was one of the most insane gigs of my life. Was it? Was it packed? Yeah, it was at Concord Music Hall. It was Jen Hartswick's gig.

The band. Sick. It was me, Jen, and Natalie, Krasno, O'Teele, Jeremy Salkin and Sputt were on drums. It was so killing. Oh, and Dave's and it was the night I met Dave Shaw. He was the other singer in it. But it was before he was famous. I'm so nervous to do this gig. I don't know any dead. I didn't want to tell that to people. It's so funny you get nervous. That's like what I'm used to. It's just like popping in for three songs and I didn't even have the balls to tell

Shapiro or Graham that I'm nervous cuz I don't really know a lot of dead. I Mean you can learn it. So you got two weeks. I got I've been I know it's song. It's more of the lyrics I have such a shitty memory. Oh, yeah, I forgot. You know a lot of lyrics, but I think I found I'm not gonna Tell you what songs I'm doing, but I have three songs that I've been preparing. I'm singing on three songs. That's not bad. I mean, you can get that.

You can remember all these Lakers players. Alright, goodbye. Enjoy, enjoy Cranblast. I do have a take on the Coldplay thing. I think they reacted very stupidly. If they would have just stayed and just kissed, this would never have come out. There just would have been two people kissing in the cold.

It wouldn't have gone viral. It wouldn't even have broke out to the internet. But the other thing is maybe three people there might have known. But it wouldn't have broken out to the internet. The way they reacted, it was stupid. It was like a guilty dog when you catch them getting in the trash. It was so stupid. If they would just like kept it even keel my favorite was her assistant who was right next to her Uh-huh laughing her ass off. She's probably happy about it secretly. She's probably wanting them to get caught or something

No, but they all got fired They did he's the CEO. Yeah, you got the board fired him. Yeah, you're not supposed to fuck that the HR girl Yeah, you're not supposed to you can't fuck down at a company I think they reacted horribly. They reacted horribly. They should have wore a we're fucking sign instead of I don't know It was like also like everyone is Coming I guess like everyone's coming coming after these guys It's like another CEO thing if it was to have it was like an a bystand It was a guy who wasn't a CEO guy,

I don't think it would've gotten ever cheap. It's weird how much people cared about it. They still care about it. I know, why are people going so crazy about it? The people, boomers cheat all the time, and people cheat all the time at work. I don't really get why this is. I think because the news outlet are hiding something.

Yeah. Ozzy just died. I was like, why is my phone blowing up? Holy shit. I mean he literally played that. He literally just died. I knew that. I was like rest in peace Ozzy. At the show in Nantucket and Sean got so fed he's like he's not dead yet. I'm like dude he looked, he looked, oh here we go. He's only 76?

I mean he had, it was we go. He's only 76? I mean he had, it was a hard 76. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's like the opposite of Snoop Dogg. Godfather of metal. Does it say how he died? Just how he's been dying? He had Parkinson. He's just been dying I think.

He had Parkinson's, right? That's crazy that this, like they must have known he was about to go with that last concert, right? Oh no. What was that, a week and a half ago? Alcohol abuse, he did a lot more than alcohol abuse. I can't believe he's dead. I mean, I can believe he's dead, but it's so weird

the timing of it is pretty intense, right? Cause he just did that concert. And did you see that his daughter got proposed to right in front of him after the concert? Do you think they did that on purpose cause they knew he was about to go? Yeah, man. They did that show really quickly.

It all happened really quickly. They think they knew. That mama on coming home was pretty emotional. Oh, man I mean, it's like I guess it's sad but also it's like cool life. I mean, I don't know man. Where is hits What was his hits Iron Man? Paranoid paranoid Oh crazy train duh duh. Well, I'm coming home war pork dance. He's fucking for pigs Heaven and hell. Holy shit Crazy Train, duh. Duh. Mom, I'm coming home. Warp, warp, damn. Look at all these fucking songs. Warp pigs. Heaven and Hell, holy shit. Wow.

See you on the other side. Wonderwall, no wait, that's Oasis. Crack Cocaine, he has a song called Crack Cocaine. Sean hates Oasis because he loves Ozzy. Crazy Train, wow, huge song. They don't like each other, Oasis and Ozzy crazy train well wait you so they don't like each other Oasis and Ozy no It's just like you don't if like if you're a black Sabbath fan You know you black South ain't no noises fan to be fair black Sabbath is about a hundred times better than Oasis

Ozzy I mean rest in peace Ozzy taught us how to rock damn We just found that out breaking news damn you're gonna hear in about six days Andy Frasco's room saving project. Room saving project. I'm thinking of. It is a project, right? It is a project. It is.

How are you doing? How's your heads? Definitely in my progress. We got one of the goats in the building today. Yeah. King. Graham Lesh. Graham.

How you doing buddy? Hey, how's it going? That's very kind. What a big week for you this week, my dude. Yeah. Yeah. What goes on? Every week's a big week, you know? I know. This Grateful Dead sexy thing. I... Okay, I need to know when should... Who pitched this idea? Who pitched 10,000 sit-ins? Give me the whole thing. It kind of came through, I guess it came through Shapiro, but it came through my management. Molly, my manager, who rules, is the most excitable person in the

world and was like, we got this thing. It came through Shapiro, but it's also with the Giants and I'm a big baseball guy and Giants fan. So, that was And, you know, my dad's world after Jerry died and post The Grateful Dead was so much about like having all these musicians come through and play in Phil and Friends, you know. And that whole sort of vibe kind of carried on through the rest of his life and the rest of his career. And so I just thought, you know, it's a big, big weekend for deadheads and for San Francisco. Let's just get everyone we can possibly think of to come play a couple songs and yeah It's you know the land of 10,000 citizens for sure

It is dude. I was like um It's this is the most Shapiro thing ever. All right Graham. Here's 30 musicians good fucking yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was looking to line up. I was like there's no bands on this Good fucking luck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was looking at the lineup. I was like, there's no bands on this. Yeah. So what? Yeah, I mean, I have it kind of like broken down into, you know, my my sort of. You know, like on this day, there's these these folks and by

I have it kind of by instrument and and, you know, I. Within the big list of all of the musicians there, there's some local folks, some folks who I know, you know, people in my bands, you know, like people who I can really lean on to sort of like be the backbone, you know, John Mollows on one of the days, he played more with my dad than anyone else except Portsmouth probably as a drummer. So it really is this awesome combination of people who have tons of experience in this great blood world and then all these other folks who are influenced by it, but maybe didn't play in a dead band or you know play with Phil and friends or with me or

anything like that and that kind of combination was just sort of what I'm trying to try and play off of and Yeah, put people into cool positions You're basically the point guard of this shit, dude. This is crazy. Nick Saban. We were texting and like, we're gonna talk some basketball and you just brought it up. But yeah, I mean, that's- Warrior's guy?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Steph guy. But I, you know, because it's the Giants and, and you know one of the musicians who's gonna be there is My friend Jake Peavy who is better known as a Cy Young award-winning picture and two-time world champion and What day see I was I? Think he's just gonna be there all weekend. Oh my god Yeah, I can't believe you guys gave me the invite dude. This is fucking nice

I'm stoked. Yeah, I was telling it's gonna be a blast Peevee on the Giants yeah when they won yeah, yeah, and uh the third time they won yeah They won a lot so what's going through your head right now? This is like a big thing especially with your dad., you know, dad not there and stuff. Like how you feeling? Yeah, I mean, since he passed away, there's just been this kind of wave of things to honor him and the rest of the guys, you know, like I did the Kennedy Center stuff in December. I was a part of the MusiCares celebration of the Grateful Dead in January. And now there's this, you know.

And I mean, it's a lot. But right now I'm just focusing on the details and literally just like texting people about like, what songs do you want to lead? You know, like, like, hey, Ivan Neville, like, what great dead songs do you feel like doing? You know? Yeah, it's different with, you know, like, Krasno and, you know, Elliot from Midnight North, like, I know exactly what song she she knows and she's just going to be there as awesome backup. But then, you know, there's some folks who...

Yeah, you could say my name. So it's really... You could say my name. Yeah. Hey, we already had this text conversation. So, I'm going to do the Blip stuff and the Motown stuff. Oh, nice. I mean, spoilers. I think that's the move, right? The Motown stuff. Oh nice. I mean spoilers. I think that's the move right?

The Motown stuff? Yeah. All right, dope. You're gonna crush those ones we talked about. Nice. Yeah, those would be really great. So my question is, Graham, you know, you've been so busy with all this stuff remembering your dad.

Have you had a chance to mourn this thing? I mean, yes, I have been busy, but it's a lot of big things, but it's not like I've been on tour. Last year kind of sucked. It wasn't just my dad getting sick and then he passed away. But, you know, we had some some things going on with with Midnight North. And, you know, our friend Elliott was going through some health stuff. And, you know, we didn't tour a lot then. And yeah, it it it all, you know, kind of compounds. But the thing that I was able to do is take the time, you know? Like things weren't super busy, it would just be like, you know, kind of a big thing every month. Yeah.

So in between, absolutely, you know, like my family is, has had the chance and it has been able to and we continue to, you know, grieve and process and all that stuff. Check in on each other? Yeah, absolutely. You know, grief and process and all that stuff. Check in on each other? Yeah, absolutely. You know, we're lucky. Your wife's private badass about this, huh? Everyone in the family has, you know. Yeah.

My wife is indeed a badass and, you know, has been a rock and, you know, but so has my brother and his whole family. And, you know, my mom is right down the road too. We're all there for her and she's there for us. Yeah, it's what everyone has to go through eventually. I got a lot of time with my dad and he had the most amazing life. There's nothing we can do but celebrate everything he did and the life that he led and how he was as a person and as a father and a

husband and as a friend. There's so much more to it than rock and roll Hall of Famer. There's so much more to it than you know rock and roll Hall of Famer. Yeah What did you learn about death that taught you about living? I I don't know if I've like thought about it like that, you know I think I've just sort of Learned that it you know, it's it's inevitable. it happens to everyone, it's natural, it's you know, like all you can do is live well, you know, what's the Tolkien line, you know, all, it's not for us to decide who lives and who dies, it's all we have to do is, all we have to decide is what we do with the time that's given to us.

And that's, you know, that's, you know, it's the kind of thing that you read or hear in the movie, the movies and think about, but don't really internalize until that you're sort of hit in the face with it. And yeah, yeah, it's a good way to live. I think specifically for me and for my extended family of musicians and people in the Grateful Dead community, which is so massive, it's just been playing the music is so important. And just creating and making art and you know, getting things out that way is really been important to me in the last year, nine months or whatever. Yeah. What about your songwriting? Has your songwriting like gone, like, have you been writing songs? What are you writing about? What's going on? I haven't been a ton actually. Too busy with it. I feel like it'll come. It kind of comes in waves

with me. Yeah. And obviously, I, you know, there's plenty to write about, but it just hasn't been been flowing and that's fine and natural. You know, so much of the music we make is creative, even in a non-songwriter kind of a way. You know, we're improvising every time we get on stage and we're creating things every time we get on stage. And that's the spirit and the ethos of the Grateful Dead music is you... My dad used to say, we never played anything the same way once. It's so true though. Yeah. It's something he always kind of instilled in us, especially in the last 10, 15 years

when he had the music venue, Terrapin Crossroads right down the road from where I am. And all of us young kids would just go play in the bar every, you know, every night and just sort of figure it out. Just get up there and go figure out how to be a musician and how to improvise. And yeah, all of that has really been sort of drilled into us and instilled into how we think about things. And so, you know, even if I'm, you know, maybe a little blocked lyrically or whatever, it doesn't matter.

I'll get out my creative energy in a lot of different ways and that the songwriting will come, you know. We should write together, bro. 100%. Anytime you want me. Absolutely. And that the songwriting will come you know we should write together, bro 100% Anytime you want me Yeah, I wish I wasn't I wish I was staying all week I mean, this is a bad time while you're fucking worrying about a thousand other musicians, but Every time they add another person. I'm like god god damn it, Shapiro, chill with this shit.

I'm like, you're gonna give Graham a fucking heart attack. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny though, I'm so about it, you know? Like, it's one of these things where, I don't know, I just think about the whole weekend in San Francisco. Like, I love San Francisco so much, like, as a city. It's so great, and it's just gonna be all these people descending on the city and they're all going to be in Golden Gate Park and then afterwards, everyone's just going to spread out and maybe they're coming to our show but maybe they're going

into all kinds of other places. Like so all of my musician friends have gigs and they're playing Grateful Dead music or stuff that's related to it. And it's the coolest thing in the world. You can go to any theater, into any bar, and that's what it's going to be about. And I think that's really special. Yeah. I mean, this music is going to outlive our kids and our kids' kids. There's something about The Grateful Dead. It's really crazy and this is just a manifestation of that. We saw it during the 50th, you know?

Just like the power of the community and the music and just how foundational it is to everything, all the music that we play, and yeah, all of it sort of sprouted out of it. It's kind of insane. But to bring it back home is fucking special, right? Yeah, it really is, yeah. That's crazy. It really is, into the city, yep.

So is the city excited, they they stoked like what's going on? I'd be fucking nerd. It's like a ticking time bomb Rolling it's a fucking Sanford. Yeah, but they're used they're used to it there. It's like, you know, I Don't know I mean, yeah, I mean so much Yeah, it has but I mean It's it's still the Bay Area is still, you know, the land of deadheads. It is what it is. Yeah, yeah. And I think we're used to it and there's at least the memory of it, if nothing

else. And honestly, it's just like what you think about with The Grateful Dead. Part of it is It's just like what you think about with The Grateful Dead. Part of it is the broader community just rolls in. You hear about these towns and venues who would not have The Grateful Dead play because they didn't want the wave of hippies coming in. We love it here. It brings life to a place. I think everyone's very excited for the whole shebang. It's not just the Golden Gate Park thing, though that's going to be amazing too. It's all of the sort of spinoff stuff. Are you going to be able to enjoy those shows or are you going to be so busy working on your other stuff?

I hope to be able to enjoy all of it, yes. I have not seen the schedules, not just my schedules but exactly like when like, when Sturgill and Billy and Trey are playing, you know, I'd love to see some of that too. And, and obviously some of the like, when set one is and set two, you know, and it might be that I have to like, roll out during the second set to get to our soundcheck on Saturday night or something. But yeah, I'm still figuring all that out. I'd like to see as much as possible.

I'm not as young as I used to be, so we'll see. And you got a kid. That all works. You got a kid. I do not have a kid. I do not have a kid. I have two two nephews. Yes. Better. Well, two nephews. My my brother's side, but a lot more on my wife's side, but nieces and nephews. Have you been thinking about fatherhood?

Oh, yeah. For sure. It's obviously something that will come up, especially losing my father and just sort of thinking about all of that. I'm keeping all that between my wife and I and the family, but obviously something we're always thinking about and especially whenever big life changes happen. They seem to come in waves. Yeah, I think about that a lot, like family and stuff, because I've been alone my whole life, dude.

I never had really a girlfriend. I had one girlfriend. I've just had really a girlfriend. I've got one girlfriend. I've just lived on the road and just kind of dedicated my thing to art. You travel so much and stuff and now we're all getting older. I mean, we're the same age, right? Are you 37? I'm 38, but yeah. 38, yeah. So it's just like, we're not Superman anymore at the time. Yeah, but you know, my dad was 46 when I was born and I'm the oldest of the two of us. So, and you know, we traveled with the family and, you know, like with the Grateful Dead and then with Phil and friends after that.

And so I kind of have a model, you know, like for how it should be done. Which is, you know, even, you know, 10 years ago, I was still sort of basing that on that model, you know. I think, you know, he had had all the crazy times long before I came along. So I kind of got to see the sort of healthier way of doing it for sure. Is there pressure keeping the legacy around versus you being your own individual musician? I kind of used to think of it sort of that way. And, you know, I Midnight North would try and not play Grateful Dead songs or like really change it up if we did. Yeah. But I kind of don't think of it that way anymore.

You know, it was it was easier when my dad was here because he was doing it, you know, and even when I play with him, it was part of... Yeah, he's an original member. It's not like a cover. But he's, you know, a founding member of the band. So, but now, you know, it's kind of what we were just talking about. Like, all of us musicians are influenced by this band. I don't need to do anything for the legacy to keep going. It's going to be there.

Dead and Company is still doing their thing. All of these offshoot bands are taking the spirit or they're taking, you know, just the vibe or they're just taking musical lessons from the Grateful Dead and doing their own thing. I've used this metaphor a lot and it comes from my folks, they were talking about it in the last few years and my mom wrote about it. She wrote up a little thing, kind of a message to Deadheads for my dad's birthday back in March. But the metaphor is just that the Grateful Dead is a big old grandfather oak tree or something like that or big old redwood. And you know, the trunk is the original

band members and the band itself and each of the branches are and leaves are all the people influenced by the band and it's just going to keep growing and growing and there's going to be more and more branches and leaves and I'm just one of them. When I think of it that way, there's not like a burden or pressure on me. Yeah, that's a good point. Because they did it. This music's going to live on and on and on whatever I do. Yeah. So I can just kind of focus on-

Well, then your legacy is too, is another branch of like, you're your own man too. And I can't wait to see what music- Exactly. Yeah. This is exciting. Yeah. And no- I mean, it should be exciting to see what music. Exactly. Yeah, this is exciting. Yeah. And no, no, no. I mean, it should be exciting for all of us, you know, like, because we're all branches, you know, because like the roots of it come from like the primordial American music, you

know, the roots of the tree are bluegrass and gospel and you know, the blues and you know, early rock and roll and rockabilly and like all jazz, all of that is, you know, a stupe, baroque music, you know, like all of that is in the roots of this music. And so, it's all of us branches are just pulling from the same thing that they channeled. Right. Everyone talks about the pots like your mom is fucking genius, dude. That is such a great metaphor. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about your mom. I mean, like she when your dad was on the road, she was raising you, right?

She was, but she was also managing filling friends My fucking god you guys keep in the family. I like it. Yeah, I mean You know she She was the mom on the road during the Grateful Dead days, then, you know, my dad took a couple years after Jerry died. And then when he started filling friends, that was, you know, my mom with an amazing team, a woman, Kathy Sunderland, who was basically my aunt who passed away 10 years ago or so. And then Robbie Taylor, who's a

Grateful Dead roadie and then was the production head for film and friends for until you're just out there on the road. What a crazy show. I'm, you know, well, shit. You know, and older. And we kept it in the family and my mom managed the band. Yeah, it was the family business. Who was the stricter parent?

They were a very good team. Good cop, bad cop. Probably probably my probably my mom, but they you know, they they they they were on the same page. It's like sure. How did you ever did you ever get grounded? What did you get grounded for? Like how does you get grounded when your dad is like a rock star? Yeah, I know. I remember it ever did you ever get grounded? What do you get grounded for? Like, how does you get grounded?

What is when your dad is like a rock star? Yeah, I know. Remember, it was kind of funny. Weed like what? Yeah. What are they going to ground you for? Yeah, yeah. We very much didn't like cigarettes. That's a good one.

Yeah. And, you know, it's it's just the kind of thing where they, you know, you set boundaries and the boundaries are super reasonable, but you're a kid and so you're going to push against them. No matter what they are. And so, you know, like whatever that is, even if I'm a little kid and it's like TV time or video game time like like like starting then and then you know getting into you know

crazier teenage stuff for whatever like Yeah, yeah, you know we all get in Get in trouble Yeah, I just like the idea of Phil Lash catching his son with weed yeah Yeah, I don't think the idea of Phil less catching his son with weed. Yeah I don't think you would girls. What about girls like like that? You get caught like maybe making out with a girl or something or You know getting caught it's like embarrassing but like no one's getting in trouble for that, you know What about I just watch balloon boy have you ever like got lost

Balloon boy, I'm not sure I've seen that balloon boy is not like a documentary But they thought they built this spaceship this family and they thought the kid was in the spaceship. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, like a weather balloon. I I remember that one that was that was like a new story Dude, have you had a home alone moment? No, I forgot about you Forgot about you on lot I mean you said balloon boy, and I thought my mind went to something else but yeah that means something else in the Grateful Dead lot They're like balloon man Yeah, Philadelphia no deals funny

No deal Not even for me. I'm so So the Golden Gate Park, so what's that? What is it like? Have you done shows at Golden Gate Park before? Like what's the scope there? Also let's talk about your show. Where is that going to be? The Heart of Town shows are at Pier 48 in Mission Rock, which is, I'm not sure how often they have shows there, but it's...

If you've been to a ball game, like a Giants game, you can see the building if you're in the upper deck. You can see right across McCubby Cove, there's a building. Holy shit. That's where it's gonna be. Dude, this is gonna be so sick. How close is that to Golden Gate? It's gonna be really, really cool.

What was that? How close is that to Golden Gate Park? Is that right there too? I don't really know what I read. Oh no. It's kind of across town a little bit, but we'll give people time. Is this fall time?

Are they after shows or before shows? I should know all this. I'm on the show. Thursday, you're on Thursday, right? I'm on Thursday. Yeah. Yeah. That's, there is no Golden Gate Park show that day.

So that's a normal show. I think that's going to be the big show whenever we finish. Then on Friday and Saturday, they're after shows. Oh cool. But you know, Golden Gate Park, it's it's in the park. So they have to end relatively early. It's kind of like festival vibes, you know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I think curfews are like 10 or something.

So we'll start at 11, 1130, give people time to get over. Oh, yeah. You'll go to a four a.m. Till till I run out of the musicians that Shapiro sends my way. No, I'm kidding. Fucking I'm going to go late. Until I run out of the musicians that Shapiro sends my way. No, I'm kidding. Jesus fucking god. I'm gonna call Shapiro. What the fuck?

You gonna get John Mayer over there or what? I'm hoping that all these guys want to come on Thursday. I think it's gonna be hard for them to come on any of the other days. I think Thursday's a dike, dude. I think that's when everyone's showing up Tell me I mean, there's this guy Andy Frasco there. So that Bump you got a frasco bumping on the puck. Yeah Because I want to give it like

Grateful dead You know, I want to give that but I want to give you the justice I mean, this is your show like I want to make sure like I'm I'm a, Dad, I wanna give that, but I wanna give you the justice. I mean, this is your show. I wanna make sure, I'm a team player for you. Whatever you want me to do, I'm your power forward, baby. You throw the ball to me, I'm gonna give you fucking six and six. Like, come on, I'm here for it, baby.

I'm your guy, okay? Even if you need water, I wanna be your wingman all day, bro, I got you. I wanna help you. I run the motion offense,. I got you. I want to help you. I run the motion offense, so I'm going to need you out there setting screens. I'm going to need you out there just posting up in the dunker spot. Also, if you need a beer, I'll go grab you one. I'll be your assistant if you need me there.

I'm there Wednesday. It's so funny. I had this flash. I don't know if we're gonna be able to make it happen But you know, we're making basketball jokes, but I kept because it's the Giants I kept having this flash like we got to have a bullpen and then like in the middle of the jam I can just be like Kraz You know, you're you're flagging out there. I'm bringing in the lefty. You need to do that 110%.

That can't be hard. And then I'd have like, Crook and Kite on there just being like, you know. Like jamming. You need that phone. I think he's calling in for the lefty, you know. I think Molo might be losing a little steam. This is the greatest idea fucking ever. You have to do this. You need the bullpen phone on by your mind. I'm calling Shapiro after this.

If that's my part of the mission to make sure the bullpen happens, I got you dude. Don't worry. There's one thing you can do. I'm just gonna be like, let's pull off a gimmick. Yeah. I'm just gonna be like, you know, hit and run. Shapiro, just cough cough up another five grand put a fucking bullpen in there What's that? But you see the fit like you see the wall phone to know we're having Shapiro open. Yeah podcast. We're calling Shapiro right now I got you bro. You want that to happen. I got this I got this for you, bro Yeah, I just I thought that'd be really funny What about like the mascot yeah of the Giants?

They're gonna show I certainly hope loose seal better show up like that's the name Oh, yeah Yeah, is there a game going on that day, too? No, unfortunately That would have been the ultimate are they on the road or they just off They're on the road. Oh damn Yeah, like damn damn. this is crazy, Graham. Is this the biggest production you ever done for something like this?

Probably. Definitely in terms of musicians. I mean, I'm sort of starting to get a little bit of experience with this. In March, I did the big shows at the Capitol Theater, also with Spiro, for my dad's birthday. And that was sort of our first real tribute shows for him. And there were a lot of musicians there too. Right. And so that was some real practice in getting the setlist dialed and sort of making it, giving everyone there a chance to like, show off what they did in

connection with the Grateful Dead's music and my dad's music and everything like that. And the idea with those shows specifically was I wanted it to be just people who had been in film friends. And like the list was kind of nuts, even just like limiting it to that. There was like 35 of us there or something like that. And it was really special, but, you know, that that sort of like gave me the the sort of practice and really. Yeah. Moving all the pieces around and the puzzle pieces to to sort of fit together. And, you know, like I I kind of musical directed a little bit,

film friends in the last few years too. There would always be people coming in and out. And you got the goat, Krasno, to help you. He's one of the best at that too. Yeah, he's going to be very, very helpful. And you know, I don't know, I'm looking at the list now and just on, I mean, we got Taylor and Griff from Dawes on Thursday. They've done a bunch of film friends, obviously, Molo there too.

Nikki Bloom, Elliot Peck, you know, Holly Boling, Sam Grisman. These are all folks that I've done a lot, I've played a lot of music with and who have kind of know the way we do things and can kind of just slot in wherever they need to be. I have a favorite to ask you. Will you put Holly on with me? Because you know she was my first piano teacher. No way. I did not know that. I went to SF State. Jeff was my philosophy teacher.

No way. Jeff told me that I wanted to play music and Jeff took me to Holly, gave me a music lesson, and she said to quit school and I quit school and I've been a musician ever since. And now her son's gonna be in your band in 10 years. And then Ryland's probably gonna be in my band. He's a fucking rock star. He's being groomed to be the next Shawn Echols replacement. Last weekend we had our Terrapin festival. My wife and my brother and I sort of put on these festivals in the spirit of the old Terrapin Crossroads, which closed in 2021. And we had Holly on

one of the days, you know, and we had our friend Mark Karen was going to open the show and we opened doors and before Mark could get on, Rylan went up and just played, I think killing in the name of, just drum on drums. I love it. Oh yeah. And it was the highlight of the whole weekend. It was amazing. Did he play with the band?

No. He was just doing the drum fills. But it's just like, it's rage. I know those drum fills. Yeah, exactly. Right, right, right. You know? That kid's a trip, man. That kid's a trip yeah he's gotta be but like how good he is this four

or five yeah isn't saying like that's when I start thinking like sometimes the vessel is brought into a little child yeah yeah yeah it's like some people these prodgies who could just like rip shit and it comes easier to some than others No, I fucking hate do I get so pissed off when I see a kid just fucking rip it like that Fuck this kid man. I've been working so hard to just learn the blues progression Graham is a great leader like I'd be freaking out if I had a music direct, three nights of music, 100 people. This guy is calm, cool, and collected.

What a life, dude. He's healthy. Yeah, he looks good. He's glowing. A lot of things going on in your life. Does stress, have you ever been a stressful guy? Does stress get you down? Ever since I've met you, I've never seen you kind of fucking stressed out like that.

I mean, not really. I'm so lucky in the situation, like the family I was born into, all of that stuff. And until the last year, I've been so lucky with the health of my family and friends too. But you know, stressful things happen. There's so much stressful stuff happening in the world. Right, right. And you know, we all have it. Like what, Graham? You don't have to say it.

What's your favorite stressful thing? What's your favorite stressful thing? Yeah. Who did you vote for? What's my favorite shitty thing? Gestures at everything. Who did you vote for? What's my favorite shitty thing Trump has done? Yeah, I don't know. But there has to be another side to being born into a great... Is there any negatives to that with Grateful Dead fans and stuff like that? They know too much about your life?

I mean, they knew a lot about my dad's life, but not really about our family. The kind of secret is that we were super normal and my parents were very, you know, kept us as well adjusted as we could be. You know, like I'm definitely not gonna complain about really anything with Deadheads, with you know, the community that we're in. It's pretty great. I mean, there's always little things, but that's just living, you know, like it wouldn't matter.

You know, sort of. Has anyone ever kidnapped you like no Gibson from ransom Patty hearth not that I remember. I don't know maybe I got Stockholm syndrome or something Funny no a lot of intense grateful dead fans out there's... Has your dad ever dealt with any stalkers? Probably. I don't think... Maybe they just didn't tell me about it. But yeah.

Right. Yeah. I'm sure. I mean, the weird thing with the Grateful Dead is like, I don't know, I was born in December 86. And I think pretty quickly after that, it must have been 87, you know, in the dark and Touch of Grey came out. So all I knew was like the big stadium life, you know.

But before that, they were like kind of working class fans, you know, they got no respect from the recording music industry and they didn't like the studio and they had this fan base but you know the entire fan base was like kind of black sheep you know like of the world and the culture. But they were of the people you know like they were working class band they were part of the community that was their fans you know. like they were working class band. They were part of the community that that was their fans, you know um and they were kind of all in it together and they I don't know the like

Pj and shit from working so hard like as a blue collar and then going straight into like fucking private jets and shit I would be fucking weird. I feel weird shot, especially after years. You're so young. Do you remember any of that? I do. I mean, they didn't fly private jets everywhere. You know, like they would set up the runs in one stadium. It'd be like a weekend at Giant Stadium or something, you know, whatever. Still doing that.

Yeah, exactly. So it wasn't, I mean, the logistics were probably absolutely insane and it, you know, it was a big unwieldy machine. From the days before before they were enormous. None of them wanted to manage anything so they would have all these managers coming in and everyone is kind of in charge but no one's in charge. The Grateful Dead story is so much more convoluted than we could probably get into in a couple hours and I don't know all the details.

I wonder if Graham's going to play Phil in the movie. The Scorsese one? Yeah. Are you in it? Are you in it? No, I don't think they're making that anymore. Yeah, I guess I got it. You got the Jonah Hill thing.

I think I got it canceled. Yeah, I still I still like I just see Scorsese like attaching himself to more and more things and that gets yeah, getting pushed back and back. Right. I mean, I think it'd be great, but, you know, he's not a guy either. You got to do it right. Yeah. Yeah. Those fans are going to be really hard on you.

That fans, they will fucking eat you alive. And they're right. And they should. Yeah. Graham, I got two more questions for you. What was the moment you realized you wanted to do music? Do you remember like were you on stage? Like what was the moment like I want to do what my pops, you know, was it a legacy thing or was it like, you just fell in love with music? Do you remember that exact moment? Like where were you? I don't remember a specific moment.

What I remember is that my brother and I were sort of like, not pushed, but like learning music and like taking piano lessons and learning music theory and stuff like that was from a pretty young age, just something we did like along with school. So it was just kind of always there and it was like, we are always going to, you're going to have a foundation in this. It's like learning math or something. Like it's going to be part of your education. And obviously, I loved it then but there's, you know, a disconnect when you're a kid between

like learning kind of beginner classical piano and like the fun rock and roll that my dad's playing and that I'm wanting to listen to and then I get to be a teenager and I'm like hell yeah Metallica, you know and stuff like that and that's different even again then. But you know at the same time like around then I'm starting to pick up the guitar and I'm not taking lessons so I can kind of like teach myself and learn the songs that I want to. And Phil and Friends has like Derek Trucks and Warren Haynes and Jimi Haring and all these amazing players like coming through that I can just watch every night. Right.

It's fucking insane. And it does, you know, then at the same time I'm like forming my hilariously bad little high school bands and stuff like that. And that's so fun. Yeah, it's the best times, dude. Yeah, it just keeps happening. So at a certain point, I'm just like, well, I'm just going to do this. It doesn't matter what I do for a living.

I'll just be playing music and if it's in my garage with my friends, that's fine. That's cool. And then in 2012, my folks, you know, I had my bands and everything. And actually Midnight North was starting right around then too. I'd started to meet Elliot and Connor and that crew. And my folks opened Tariff and Crossroads. And you know, it was initially just going to be- That had to change everything. It really did because-

You had a place to play every day. Was that your music school? It really was. And it was just this special place where like there was the room, the main room, where my dad would play all the time and they would have ticketed shows, you know, a few times a month, you know. It grew once more, more bands started coming through. But it was also this kind of enormous restaurant that my folks didn't mean to open. They didn't want to be restaurateurs, you know, they wanted to run a music venue.

But the location came with it. And so we put a stage in the bar and then people would just, you know, us musicians would just like fill time every day for free. And so that was our garage, you know, like. That's so sick. It started like, my dad and Ross James and Jackie Green would just like play.

And then like, yeah. Yeah, Ross was, that's like kind of where he- I forgot Jackie was in that crew too. Yeah. That's crazy. I mean, Jackie was in Fill in Friends before that, you know, so. Yeah, he was in it the first time I saw him.

That was when he was partying too. Really? Oh yeah, he was partying. I remember that. I mean, he's a young guy in Fill in Friends, you know? So, yeah. He was the first time I saw him. That was when he was partying too. Really? Oh yeah. He was partying. I remember that. I mean, he's a young guy and filling friends, you know, like he's, he was, he was crushing it. And so, yeah, it just sort of grew and we, we met all these musicians, local and not, who would just be there all the time. There was the Midnight North crew, Ross and his bands, you know, we got to know Alo guys cuz they're low and you know, we met leave I love those guys are so great. I just played with them. Hi, Sierra. We both man, dude The keyboard player is a fantastic fucking song. Yeah

Zack is really great. Oh my God. I watched the whole set. Yeah. Lebo and Steve were both in, broke down in Bakersfield with Tim and Nikki Bloom. And then we met all of the Gramblers and then the Mother Hips. And it's just like this community that was already there in the Bay Area, but they didn't really have a place. And so all these musicians sort of just like congregated at Terrapin. And it would just like, you know, it'd be me and Greg Loiacano and Ezra, who's now the drummer for ALO. And, you know, my friend Scott Patton, who was in my brother's band and Ross's band,

you know, like like we just like, okay, like we've never played together the four of us, but we're going to fill three hours tonight in the bar on a Tuesday. You know, like what songs do you guys know? And it's like, Oh, do you have a chart for that? How would you quarterback that? How would you quarterback that? Everyone would quarterback the songs that they were leading, you know, just kind of like get together beforehand. The stage is set, like you don't need like, like monitors are set, like it's just, it's just walk in and go.

Yeah. And just like get some food beforehand and be like, hey, I can do these like two Dylan songs and like, oh, I wrote this song. It's pretty easy. You can just follow the changes, you know, like it's just 145 or whatever. You know, I know this band song, I know this dead song, you know, like, let's just go. And, you know, over 10 years of that, this community sort of just like, blew and we all grew up as musicians, even the folks that were super established beforehand. And so now we all have this kind of common repertoire, this common

language that we can all just kind of throw together a set and yeah, I don't know, sometime in there is when I- So maybe that's why you're not so stressed out, because you know these songs in the back of your head. Right. We've been doing it. The other thing with me is when I'm growing up and I'm getting put in Phil and Friends lineups, and I'm maybe not... My chops maybe aren't there totally, but what I could do is really know the songs and be the utility infielder and be the, you know, the guy who knows all the different harmony parts so I can teach the vocals to, you know, so all of that stuff like became something that we all needed to

know. So, you know, on, on this Thursday show that we're going to do, like, there's going to be a lot of people there on that lineup that have that experience as well. And so they like, I trust them to have my back at the same time as you know, I can, they can trust me to lead them, you know, in this way. We're all looking forward to it. We are all looking forward to it. It's gonna be a fucking blast. I got one last question. Was there ever an evil gram?

Were there ever evil gram years? Like we're fuck you, dad. Fuck you, mom. Yeah, I want to be a talent. I'm gonna be an accountant. Is there any of those? Were there any of those? I'm going to rebel and be an accountant. Yeah. I mean, that's the joke we always tell. Yeah, it's just like the most punk rock saying that like be a fucking accountant. Yeah, my future kids or like, you know, my nephews, my brother's kids like, could do is just like be super like the Republican accountant. I'm gonna sell real estate. Fuck you, dude.

You can't tell me what to do. like the Republican accountant. I'm a real estate. Fuck you. Yeah. You can't tell me what to do. Yeah, I didn't. I don't really have like real rebellious like that stuff, but like we would butt heads about certain music and Metallica was one of them. He called it like he actually he told the story at at my wedding, which was really funny.

But he basically was like, turn off that ungodly noise or something like that about Metallica. And I legitimately thought like, if he listened to actually the notes, there's a lot of stuff that I think he would have been interested in because like, like thrash metal has a lot of like classical influences and like the composition is very complicated. And I thought he would have been interested in that. So, but the way I responded, which he remembered and then told was that I said well maybe to the untrained ear which is just a funny thing to say to Phil Lesh yeah but you know I was probably 15 or you know just being an asshole. You're just a jam band guy dad. Listen Mr. Jam Band, I want to rock fucking hard. It's kind of funny to think about him saying about that, about Metallica, and then you wonder how many people said that about the Grateful Dead when the 60s didn't have their parents

with him and their kids. Yeah. Time on our tradition. People hating their kids' music. Well, this guy's gotta go. He needs to practice. Go get your thing. Go get out there, Graham.

I am so, I can't wait to hang out with you, bro, and I'm serious. Whatever you need from me, I am your guy. Waters, booze, towels, I will be your guy. I'm here for you, brother. I'm serious. Or you could just give me some space. I'll give you some space too if you need some space.

If you tell me to fucking scram, I'll scram too. No problem, there's no problem. I just wanna be there for you, this is a big moment for you. And I'm honored I got the call, and I just wanna be there fully for you. I'm your power forward, baby. I'll even be the for you. This is a big moment for you. And I'm honored I got the call. And I just wanna be there fully for, I'm your power forward, baby. I'll even be the bench guy, dude. I'll just, I'll hype you up.

Just don't make him play piano. Let's go. Just don't make me play piano for the love of God. Just be given the, yeah. You and Holly are gonna just crush it on the piano. I can, I'm visualizing it now. I know, I can't wait. It's me, I mean, Holly would be my right hand and I'll just hype her up

Why why hit those chords baby? You know what I'm saying? Let's go. Let's go Graham lash. It's always a pleasure to talk to you brother. Can't wait to hug you in person It's been a minute. Yeah, and you know, like I said, we're here for you and keep the dream alive and yeah I can't wait can't wait to hear about midnight. And we really didn't really talk about that. I wanted to promote this Graham Lash Especial. This is the big deal. There's always stuff going on. It's just fun to hang.

This is promoting, but at the same time, like, brother, let's just kick it. That's what I'm saying. It's just good's just kick it. You know, yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's just good to have a conversation Yeah, in it crazy. We've been it's been like, you know, we've been grinding this out together, you know in separate paths but we come and we come and go and with our things and That's what I love about this community, you know, it like yeah, it's it's crazy beyond any any one of us But we're always kind of floating back together and crossing your mom said your mom said it perfectly. I didn't even... the branches is such a good analogy of the generational pull. You know it's like my music is not really Grateful Dead but I am a branch of that community because that community brought me here. You know?

Exactly. Midnight North too. I mean you guys are not... you guys are a song or you're a folk band. Yep. You know? Exactly. No, it's, it's really true. And, and, uh, but we're all so influenced by it and like, we just wouldn't exist without the Grateful Dead, you know? And so many bands are like that. So we'll keep fucking it up. Big dog.

I'm calling, I'm calling Shapiro now and we're going to get you that bullpen. Well, Graham, I hope you get the bag for working so fucking hard on this fucking I hope you get the bag for this um I Yeah, I just want the spiritual love. That's all we need all the spiritual bag I'll give you the most spiritual hand jobs you ever gotten in your life big dog. Don't worry Other bag yeah Have a great day and stay happy and you're doing a good thing.

This is important, so you should be proud of what you're doing. Yeah, you too. For the legacy of this, this is a really big deal. Thank you. I appreciate that and thank you for all you're doing too. Love you, buddy, have a great day. I'm stoked to see you.

Yeah, you too. I can't wait, see you in a couple days.