Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - Hanson: ARCHIVE EP:

Episode Date: August 11, 2026

From the archives: Hanson joins Andy Frasco for a hilarious and surprisingly thoughtful conversation about growing up famous, surviving the music industry, and staying a band, and brothers, for decades. This episode is brought to you by JamCut.IO (https://jamcut.io/). If you're a musician and you're tired of making clips all the time, check these guys out! Isaac, Taylor, and Zac talk about getting rejected before their breakthrough, turning down a terrible early record deal, building a fanbase by hand as kids, and how they stayed grounded after becoming massive pop stars. They also get into fatherhood, faith, social media, band fights, criticism, motorcycles, and what it takes to keep creating long after the first wave of fame. Plus, the brothers share stories about Paul McDonald, growing up in Tulsa, and what they learned from legendary musician Leon Russell about longevity, reinvention, and staying hungry. Originally recorded for Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast. #Hanson #AndyFrasco #WorldSavingPodcast #MMMBop #LeonRussell #MusicPodcast 👉 Subscribe for new episodes every Tuesday

We're going live. Always record. Always record. All right. Here we go. What's up, boys? Where are you guys at? We are at our studio in Tulsa, Oklahoma, the one only.

Yeah. Yo, it's people, actually one of my close friends, Paul McDonald. I heard he knows you guys pretty well. Pretty well. Oh, yeah. Paul is like our brother from another mother. Oh, man. Spent so much time.

In fact, actually, Paul and I wrote a song on this latest record that we're about to put out. What song? It's actually going to be the second single off the RGB Red Green Blue album. It's called Write You a Song. Oh, what's it? They couldn't come up with another title. They're like, what are going to call this song? Write you a song.

That's so funny. Tell me, he went on tour with you guys. How did you guys meet each other? He, we knew him originally through his ex-wife and we just kind of fell in love with Paul. We met him.

Yeah, we got him in the divorce. He's like, fuck having one girl. We're going to have three dudes. Let's fucking get this. You know, Paul is from Huntsville. My wife, her family's all from Huntsville. It's so kind of like, it's just our kind of people. Yeah, it was just like a lot of things.

And Paul is just, Paul is a great hang and a very talented songwriter and and has a really unique voice and just, I don't know. And a great body, you know. Yeah, a great body. I was going to say we have strong beard envy. And we can do a hobo beard like almost no one I know. Isn't it crazy when you meet just like guys who've been hustling in the music industry just as long as you guys? I mean, it's just, it's inspiring to see guys keep going.

You know, what's the hardest part about keeping the name around? Well, I mean, I think it goes to any principle of longevity. It's that thing of some combination of knowing who you are enough. that you're not, the failures are not the things that define you. You know, it's like if you look at the people that, you know, make impacts on, you know, business, music, you know, art, most of them, we were talking about it, you know, just earlier today. You hear no a lot.

Right. So, you know, I kind of call, I've always. No is everybody else's favorite word. We're not really able to do other things, really. So, you know, this is what we know and see who we are. So just keep, if no wasn't in the vocabulary, What would you guys be doing? Oh, man.

So many things. Oh, gosh. I would probably be doing radio in some capacity. That or that are writing in some other form. Living in a van down by the river. I was just thinking if people couldn't say no, we'd probably be signed a curb record. Oh, that's true too. Oh, yeah.

And that would have been a disaster. That record contract, I remember we lucked out and ended up with a really good attorney through a really exceptional manager and concert promoter, a guy named Jim Halsey. He connected us with his attorney early on long before we were signed. And we got an offer from Curb Records. And he was like, listen, this is an 80, there's a 40-page contract,

and I got 80 things I want to change about it. Oh, my God. And was he able to change it or no? No, he said don't sign it, basically. If you want to be making music in two years, don't sign this. Run, don't walk, I think was his phrase. Yeah. And you guys, why did you guys sign it then?

We didn't. We didn't. Oh, thank God. Okay, let's clap that up. Let's go. We don't want the boys to get fucked. We don't want the boys to get fucked. Yeah.

It's just not that way anyway. We learned, we learned early on that just because someone was enthusiastic about you, it didn't mean they were enthusiastic about your best interests. Yeah. All right. Yeah, that's so true. What about that? That's one of the.

Yeah, explain that to me. One of the strange things about music, you know, you have to be confident, have to be a self-promoter, right? You have to kind of be sort of jokingly, like, you know, be narcissists for, you know, professionally. But it's always a combination of because it's not just ego. It's like I have something. And it's hard to separate yourself from that.

That's what I was going to say. Yeah. And what about like, what about when you were a kid as well? Like, didn't you guys have a shitty record deal when you first got your first deal? Our deal was pretty good. because we had gone through so many people that had said no, we read a lot of contracts, you know? So our deal's pretty good, actually.

I think all the rights to our records revert in about five or ten years. So, you know, when we've been a band for 40 years, we'll actually own everything we've ever recorded. Does that make you bitter, though? No, not really. I mean, think of it as you're going to make certain mistakes. I mean, the record industry, as far as how people fare, we've fared fairly well considering all the possible terrible things that can happen to you.

Yeah. So, I mean, and I will say, though, too, some of that is also choosing not to, shall we say, make certain lucrative deals that you could have made because you didn't feel like it was good for the long tail. It's kind of choosing trying to say, look, I want to think about this for five to ten years from now, not just right now. But of course, then again, we probably should have done the dolls thing. It probably wouldn't. You know, I think that we've always been really.

a live band. We've always consider that to be very important, right? I think the philosophy of being a live band, it changes the way you look at your fame and your sort of adoring fans because it's very much about the moment

you're in, right? And every artist who plays a lot of concerts and really values that and earns their bread by selling tickets and being in that moment, their relationship with the fans I think is much pure and and their view of themselves is usually, not always, a lot more real.

They get it, that like, I walk off stage and there's nobody back there adoring. And I understand that living in this moment and then moving on to the next moment is valuable. And I think that keeps you from, in a lot of cases, getting the bad singer, lead singer disease kind of head where you're like, man, I'm the greatest thing ever. Because you know it comes and goes. And every night is a good show or a bad show. and the tech's on the side of the stage trying to fix your air monitors while you're going deaf because they're static or something, right?

And you've got to kind of keep smiling and singing and it's just blowing your head off. You know, like, this sucks. Yeah. Right. One of the things that, I mean, honestly for artists today that the problem or the challenge with a lot of people breaking out just on YouTube

or just online, it's not that that's not an amazing thing because going direct to fan is incredible. We experienced the beginning of that when it all began, you know, 20 plus years ago. But the challenge is, like, you don't, you don't, you don't, aren't forced to learn how to walk out and deal with a bad night. Right. You know, you just, you just, people do get blown up by comments and that's negative and sad as well.

But, you know, when you walk into a physical space and, like, there's 12 people there and you need for there to be 100 and it looks pretty crummy. Or if there's a thousand and they don't, but, but it's a bad show for you. I mean, that's how you get forged, you know, it's like forged in fire, you know, the one ring of, you know, artistry. I think part of it is too that when you're in a stage environment, you have this megaphone, right? And you have this ability to change the vibe of the room. When you live on Instagram or YouTube, the comment section has more power than you do. As a person, people are there to watch. Everybody's there to watch you, but they're looking at some dude who's like posting links to some other things.

Like sitting in the beanbag eating Cheetos, that's a moron. Everybody's like, yeah. Everybody's like, laugh, laugh, laugh, wait, hold on a second. Exactly. Or like, check out my new hot piss.

I'm informing live on the Graveld of China and you're watching that guy's emoji. Yeah. It's basically like... The heckler? A megaphone. I don't know why. Yeah, do you blame ADD culture?

No, ADD culture. No, I blame Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah, I've always been an ABBA fan. I don't blame a way, different, different acronym. Yeah. I think, I think, I saw a, I saw a meme the other day that was like, since when did we all get the good idea that Mark Zuckerberg should be responsible for the mental health and well-being of our children.

Right. Yeah, yeah. I think it's a funny thing too because I was with somebody who was talking about the negatives of technology, right? And I'm like, what you mean is there's an application you use on technology that you don't like, right? It's social media. That's not technology. That's just the thing you use technology for. Totally. Right. And I think. I think that's, we miss that stuff. I mean, ADD culture, no. What actually has happened is the world has said, I want immediate feedback from everyone. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. I have never wanted immediate feedback from everyone. No. He doesn't want immediate feedback from me. I don't want him to tell me what you think. Why would I want immediate feedback from everyone in the audience? Like, what was the last time you finished the song? You were like, hey, guys, how that I do?

Give me a, like, I don't know, one to five scale, you know? And everybody put their fingers out. and guess what they're going to do? Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Wait, we're number one. We're number one.

Hey, guys, they think we're number. It's sort of like saying, blaming all food. They really need to blame all donuts. Right. Like, these things. Food makes me feel horrible. No, you're just eating only Twinkies. And it goes back to what you're saying,

like with Zuckerberg controlling the mental health of our kids. I mean, you're totally, that is totally spot on. Like, that's the reason why we're in this predicament. And so I'm like, what the fuck are we trying to do here? So like going back to like the musician's side too. So like how do you guys not listen to all the bullshit and just be you guys? Well, you just sort of mute things. And he's talking about me actually.

That was the really complicated thing. Nobody's in previous to negativity and to things that come at you. But I think that so that's not possible to turn it all off. but I do think knowing what you're trying to do and who you are. I mean, that's what it goes back to. Especially, I mean, I feel much more, you know, a pity for people that are like the random dry cleaner

and, you know, Oshkosh, who suddenly has people like screaming at them because they didn't set up to have a public platform at the same level. I want to start a business. And now you have this dialogue. Whereas people that have been making music, I mean, we are sort of asking for it.

I mean, we're putting our face out there. We're saying, look, you are. I'm just, I'm just saying, Right. You won an audience. The nature of art is you're building an audience, like music, especially. And so at some point, I mean, you know, they say, you know, you look at the kind of the idea of having haters or having people like, if you have people willing to mock you or go after you, that means you must have done something right. As well as wrong.

As well as wrong. So, I think at some level, at some level, when you put yourself out there as an artist, you kind of sign up to a certain amount of abuse. But the question is the only reason you can take is because you actually know why you showed up. Yeah. Like you had stuff you wanted to do. You know, I think to, I think too, a good creative process is,

is kind of exhausting doing like a good workout is exhausting. So you should be developing the muscles to deal with your own rejection, right? And that's just sort of like, oh, oh, you didn't like it? Cool. Zach rejects himself daily. He walks out as like, your horror hit your face. But to me, like, it's also about like we do so many different things. And I think to, like,

As a musician, I would say I find more inspiration outside of listening to other people's music than that's not really the way I get inspired to write a song. It's like, man, what does everybody doing? Right. Right. I think that's a, for me, that's a huge benefit because it keeps you in a positive sense insulated. Like you're not really being influenced by, oh, I need to be like that. When you go watch a great movie and you hear a score in that environment, you go, man, that's cool. I need to step up or you read a great book or you are.

you go play a video game. You're like, that was amazing. I just want to create something. Right. I think that's an even better inspiration than hearing the latest successful album or cool project that another musician did. Because I think your creativity can be more pure sometimes when it's not actually inspired by the music you heard.

Totally. And it goes back to what you're saying about blocking the noise of what your fans are trying to say too. I mean, we... Yeah, I mean, the thing is the fan, the actual fan, It's incredible. And we've benefited from great community. But you know, you obviously can never please every person ever.

Right. And, you know, if you don't have a compass, you really have to have that sense of, look, I'm waking up and I'm creating because I'm inspired to create. This is who I am. And we talk about this with the audience. It's like, hey, you know, you, we have a song called I was born. And I was born to do something no one's ever done before. It's not to say everybody's going to be Muhammad Ali, but you literally are the only you. you've got something you're going to contribute to the universe.

We still, all of us, you know, we're not the same in our creative process and even, you know, things that always inspire us, but we do all have a sense of this is what I want to make. And even if nobody's listening, I'm going to be creating. I'm going to want to create something. I think that's a huge benefit to overcoming just. How long did it take you? You talk about building that muscle of like building the calluses of that. How long did it take you in your career until you said, fuck it?

well i mean let me reflect on the day it's a thursday it was 8 p.m. on a Thursday in milwaukee i think it was when we basically got kicked out by our church as like you know under the age of less than double digits yeah because we were singing too much rock and roll we were growing up singing gospel songs and then we're like i guess we're only going to write songs about you know that um we're going to write songs about

There's already church songs in church, so we should write songs that are not in church. First rejected by, you know, those. Did it bum me out that you're rejected by the church? Are you guys religious people? Were you bummed out that you were rejected by the church? It said, fuck it. We're rock stars now. It was probably the fact that we said, fuck it.

They probably didn't like a nine-year-old saying that in church. Actually, I just figured it out. I don't know why. They were right. I was in Sunday school and everybody was like we were walking out, fingers in the air, listening to the sex pistols. Dang it. This is all right.

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So get yourself out. Go to fucking Jamcut. All right. Hey, boys, what about Jam? We love it. They fucking love it. Were people worried about you? Because it's got to be a trip

to get that famous, that young, start selling out like the Hollywood Bowl, being on television, having the hugest hit. I mean, like, you can hear about childhood stars and how it fucks them up, you know? Like, were people worried about you? Oh, yeah.

I mean, I worry about me every day, but that's a whole other thing. They were, yeah. I think there were definitely people that were probably, especially peripherally, like people that didn't know us, that well or weren't, you know, doing the day-to-day with us. So we're probably a little bit

concerned about that element. But I mean, we had, I mean, not protective parents, but adequately protective parents, both parents that were willing to be brave enough to allow us to do what we were doing, but also recognize that there's kind of a point where, like, the pressure and the kind of insane, you know, like life of that, of that celebrity factor could be really challenging. So they were pretty good at cutting against that grain. And again, as I said kind of earlier, in some ways, you sacrifice a little bit of chasing the popularity, you know, train for your own long-term sanity in certain cases. You know, but that's, but that's hopefully why, you know, you wake up today and go,

you know what? I feel really good about every record that I've made. And I don't think to myself, oh, I wish I never would have done that. I just think, oh, well, it wasn't as a. successful as I hope it was or whatever, but you have a certain sense of internal confidence and pride that, hey, I made the best choices I could, given the circumstance. Well, I think you should jump back just a few steps, right? You said a few minutes ago, like we were joking about getting kicked out of the church. Yeah. Yeah. But the reality is,

I mean, faith is a huge part of that. And I think sometimes when you look at people who are in the spotlight, you do lose your perspective on where you fit in the hierarchy of matters in the world, right? Yeah. Especially when you're young. Because you're your own messiah man. You know, saving the world. I wake up and pray to me.

Let's fucking go. The cult of Hansen. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, dude, faith is the reason we're not complete weirdos, not because, I mean, and, and that comes from your parents, that comes from your upbringing. So in that sense, but like, spiritual grounded. Let's get real. There's no special

sauce except for understanding that you're accountable to all your actions and that you are very small, little tadpole in the stream of life. So how did you guys stay so humble when getting so big, so young? Paul told me, you guys are like, you guys are legit. I looked you guys up. You guys are like the first real indie band to like make their own merch. basically run the business as a family. Like, you guys are doing an operation that I fucking respect.

Because I'm in a band. I've been in a band for, what, almost 15 years, doing 250 shows a year as well. And, you know, it's like, you talk about the grind. And, like, especially when you don't have the idea of, like, I don't need a fucking record label anymore. Let's do this ourselves. There's got to be someone who taught you drive.

And who was that? Well, Taylor was naturally born with a level of drive that is unusual. Really? I will give Taylor that. I will give Taylor that mantra. If he was an engine, it would say high torque.

Drive shaft. That's what they call me when I'm not looking. All the ladies. It's the drive. She's here getting it. He has seven children to prove it. It's very complicated.

We try not to think about it. You have seven children? I have seven. Holy fuck, man. You are fucking my dude. Let's go, dude. It took me a minute to figure that part out.

Did you? No, I mean, I was saying, I will say this, that it was like said, obviously, grounding and sense of your perspective and that there's something bigger than you is huge. And I think anybody that's created things, regardless of what people say about their belief system, I think you recognize there's something powerful happening when you tap into art.

I mean, you're a musician, you're creative. It is incredible. If you paint something, if you write something, if you make music, it's like, whoa, I get to step into the stream and then call it mine. The independent thing, too, I was just going to speak to that specifically. You know, nobody knows exactly what makes honestly the, the misconduct. stakes happen or the positive stuff happened entirely. Nobody can fully take credit for how things come together. But we did start off beaten the pavement before we got signed, even though we were

super young. We did the band stuff. We just couldn't go to bars. So I mean, we literally licked stamps and had a mailing list of 3,000, you know, for local gigs before we were signed, you know, when I was 12 or something. Hold on. And we did the thing. You guys were sending demos at 12 years old to labels? We weren't just sending demos. We were sending cards out with lists of gigs. to fans that had signed up to a mailing list that we were playing in, you know, Oklahoma, Kansas and Texas. Oh, okay. Back up, back up.

This is, holy shit. You guys are on a class. Let's fucking go, Hanson. That's what I'm talking about. That's that fucking hustle, dude. A lot of people forgot the hustle. Yeah, what's like the first song you guys actually wrote where you felt like, damn, we're actually becoming songwriters. Is rain? Is that probably the woman? It was kind of the

most, yeah, there's a song called rain. We call it rain, but rain falling down. And you would have been 11? 11, 10, something like that. I think, so it's sort of like the first song you write and the first song, you're talking about that moment. Yes. Right.

And I actually think to me, something happened. Someone saw us play shows and he was a special ed teacher. And he would teach the advanced classes. And he said, you should come do a school assembly because I think kids your age seeing you play. would be amazing for these kids, right? Because basically we would just play anywhere, but we could, because as kids, you can't just go out to play dance. So we were homeschooled.

That's super popular in Oklahoma. And so we didn't really have school experiences. We didn't have those kind of things. And we showed up on stage and played for a group of probably fourth to seventh graders. Right? And it was like. Pandemonium. Yeah.

screaming at a pitch you didn't know people could hear. Right? Because these are genuine, very small humans. Yeah. And you're like, oh my God. You're the same age, right? Or how old were you guys?

Yeah, we're the same age. Holy fuck. I think at the oldest that we were doing that when I was, I was maybe as old as 13 or 14. But as, but Zach would have been, gosh, you would have been. Nine or 10, 11, 12. I mean, like, it's like, yeah. So Zach was like, Zach was prime.

audience. Taylor was prime audience. I was a little bit old for the crowd in some ways, but I think that moment, that first time we did that, yeah, was like, whoa, this is different. Yeah. This is different because when you play an arts festival or you go play on the patio at a restaurant or you go play a block party, you're kind of a second rate of track. Yeah, you're an ad on. People are there to see. Yeah, you're an ad on. People are there to look at art. You know, like when we did these, the kids came to watch us play like a pay. Like a pay. audience and they they freaked out because they were used to seeing like here comes the firemen or here comes you know the science teacher or a magician they're like oh people my age playing

music i've never heard anything like this uh and that was i think the first moment where it was like okay okay this is different needless to say we started playing schools yeah and to this day actually in fact actually the other night i was at the gary clark junior show at gains ballroom shout at the Gary Cairn's. Great show, amazing show. And a guy walked up to me and he goes, hey, you played at so-and-so elementary school when I was, you know, so-and-so age. And I remember that to this day. So there's like, especially locally in Tulsa, you'll get that occasionally because there are folks, you know, they grew up here and I walk up to you, be like, hey, man, I saw you guys like years before anybody had heard of you at my elementary school.

I think, I mean, you use the word hustle. I mean, the thing about all this stuff is it's, you know, when you talk about it abstractly, it seems even more sort of like, oh my God. But when it really comes down to it, all of us are given something and we either choose to run with it or we choose to run away from it. I said, I go, honey, what is it that's different about bad art and bad music? And she goes, well, you can close your eyes when you're looking at bad art. You can't get away from bad music. I guess you can't do this man.

What about, what about distractions? Do you ever have a distraction in your life that didn't keep you focused on the main thing, music? Like maybe drugs, alcohol, women. I mean, was there any distractions in your life that got you not on the path you wanted to be in? I'm sure everyone has had something along the way. No one's had, thankfully, a major drug problem. Although I will say, I think I drink a little bit too much whiskey thanks to the pandemic. That's everybody, everyone's an alcoholic now.

It's not good. It started off slow now. I don't know. I mean, I think, honestly, I think music is sometimes a distraction, if I'm honest. I think what you were talking about earlier about sort of your big head and kind of those things. How do you stay grounded? Like, you have to understand where music fits in the whole spectrum of what you need to be. Right. And as a dad with five kids, like music is not number one, right? Music is not even number three, right? Music is in the like five or seven or eight range because there's so many other things that have this timeless requirement.

Well, actually, urgent requirements. Yeah. But music is powerful. And it's also like looking in the mirror, I think it's a reflection that you have to have. Everybody has different versions of it. In our case, where music is powerful. And so we use this to show the people around us, the number ones and the number two is and the number five's, right? You go, this is something that I can share with you, that I can give as a lasting reflection of how I want you to live your life or see someone living their life. And so like what we say, how hard we work, how we represent ourselves. Like those things matter because of all the other things. Right.

That's beautiful, man. And you're holding yourself credible to the life you want to live. so the person you want to be. So it's a full circle thing, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, the perspective on what it is you want to leave behind is definitely bigger than, you know, kill everybody in the path that I, you know,

gets in the way of my ambition. But I will say this, though, that the fight for this, you know, the fight to be an artist and make music is so, you know, if you get to do it for a year at a high level, let alone, you know, a lifetime like we've been able to do pretty much, you're in such a small group that gets that opportunity. You also, you know, the minute you step back and go, yeah, this is, I got this, this is easy. You know, I don't really have to give it.

It does, you see it dissipate because somebody's like ready to, you know, to sell the right arm to get the chance. And we saw that early, you know, that I was just with a man who mentioned Jim Halsey the other day. He was still a friend. He's 91 years old. He represents. He managed and represented. and incredible artists, I mean, across the spectrum, mostly country music. But he was telling the story of how he had done a conference that was in Tulsa.

And he had spoken and our dad at the time, who was just trying to figure out how to even help us. I know we're very, very, very young. It's like two years in, like I would depend on probably in 10 years. Well, I mean, that was right around the time we got that horrible offer. He had showed up. He was staying at a hotel and we got a call in his room at 7 in the morning. and it was, it was, I got on the other line, and he said, hey, you know, you said at your conference yesterday that if we had something special, we should, you know, really kind of, you know, do our best

to get out there and get, you know, get seen. And Jim said, that's great. Let's set up a meeting. He said, no, we're in the lobby. We were the three, we were up in the lobby in that morning in standing downstairs. Let's fucking go, Hansen. Let's go hustling. So, I mean, that obviously is not, that's a level, you know, of crazy. But at the same time, it's really just, that urgency, you know, that sense of like, hey, this is, this is, I'm ready to, I'm ready to give my help. Our dad was doing the due diligence, but our mom was the one that woke him up and said, hey, the boys should be there at seven in the morning. So I was, so credible her goodness do. I was only there for the taco morning. One thing that's really changed my life of how

I control anxiety and how I control, um, going through my day to day of partying and playing really hard every night and going into back to being a normal person during the day. I've been doing this thing called contrast therapy where it's basically I go in a sauna for 45 minutes. I do 15 minute intervals three times and then I'll do a cold plunge between two to three minutes every other time. And through that, I've seen my dopamine level dramatically grow. I have been the happiest I've been for a long time. And it's all because of Other Ship.

Other Ship is a New York and Toronto-based company that gave me a safe space to find myself again with their amazing saunas or amazing cold plunges and amazing community. I started journaling again.

They gave me the opportunity to journal in the saunas. They gave me the opportunity to get deeper into my mind and get more comfort in the idea of being okay with my What I love about it, the community that other ship has brought me has really opened my mind that I don't need to go to the bars every night anymore. I could go and talk to people outside of a social community that required alcohol or party. And I could go in there and feel healthy and talk to people and communicate. And that's one thing that othership has brought to my life that has changed my life. So if you're in the New York area, you should definitely try out OTHERShip.

They got a great app, great community, and Toronto too. I know a lot of people listen to this podcast in Toronto too. But I go every day and it has changed the way I perceived life. It's changed the way I find happiness

in the mundane parts of the day. So go check out OTHIPSIP. I guarantee you you will not regret it. All right, back to the interview. You know, you talk about dedication how hard it is to, you have to give yourself 120% in this industry to even fucking have a chance.

How hard is it to be a father of fucking seven and five and four when you're always gone? It's very hard. It's very hard. Actually, I'm realizing that, so I, my youngest is an almost eight-year-old daughter. And I was realizing, and Zach, we talked about this,

actually, you guys even more than me. She has memories of me doing shows, but because of this last two-year period, she's kind of weirdly spoiled in a certain sense that dad has not been traveling a whole lot. Oh, because the court. So whenever, when we were working on this latest record for the last, you know, for a few months, she was like,

dad, where are you? What are you doing? You shouldn't be at the office all the time? You shouldn't be gone? What is wrong? Like, she was, it was really interesting. So, yeah, I mean, it is challenging. It is hard.

Luckily, all of us, you know, met our wives in some capacity or another, while on the road. So they have no excuse other than realizing they signed up for this gig and we're sorry. It's not surprised. You know, you have to nurture that. You have to do your best to kind of

to bring the kids along when you can to make sure that, you know, make sure that your wife doesn't feel like you're completely abandoning her. But there's some of that. I mean, there is some of it. It's got to be fucking hard, man. I'm telling you.

I mean, I don't, I just think of like your family unions and there's like fucking 18. kids like Lord of the Fly style just running around like I would do you ever like forget your kids like you actually have a conch in the back that he is you ever like home alone

Taylor used to have eight kids the other one's name Piggy Do you ever like home alone forget a kid at the mall or some shit or just like forget their name or something I'd be forgetting all my kids name like oh Billy and fucking Johnny it's it hard

I just do what George Foreman did just name them all George you always get it right. Oh, man. It's wild, man. But I think it's just understanding that everything is a give and take, right? It's like as a musician,

when you collaborate with people, you understand that to bring someone else into the room means that it's not 100% you anymore, right? And so when you bring somebody else into the world, it's also not 100% you anymore. And the more people you bring into the world that are like, man, I love being around this person, which is how I feel about kids and great collaborators.

Like, we love Paul. Like, it's so fun when Paul comes around and adds Paul. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got to remember that. Like, you no longer get what you want. You get what you have decided to be a part of.

And you're the leader of a pack, not the leader of your birthday party anymore. You know, like you've got to nurture every single person. And that means giving up things you want and time you want. And honestly, you know, the money and the money and the, life for those other people. It's just a huge sacrifice. But like everything, it's always better to give. It's always more rewarding to give.

And so if you get to give to a lot of kids, man, you feel really full. And they feel really, really like, you know, they didn't have enough time for them. Yeah, you'll never get, you'll never win, Hanson. Your fans will love you, your kids will fucking hate you at 60. That'd be like that. They'd be great. You never even loved me. Everybody loses.

That's the message of this project. You know, you brought up a good point about, you know, like, dedicating yourself to a team figure, you know? How hard is it? You guys been a fucking band brotherhood for so long. And now, like, as you grow older, you guys have your different opinions on things and your different approach on life.

How hard is it to still be individual with how you believe, the things you believe with all. running a business and like nurturing to the fans and nurturing to, you know, that kind of thing. Like, can you explain how to like keep that juggle, you know? The short answer. Some counseling. Do we need to talk? Yeah, I mean, you sound like you're speaking from reality.

No, I'm in a band too. And so I'm, I'm an open book. And like, there's some things I can't say. And, but as like musicians and artists, you know, that's why we're in art is to express the feelings we feel. feels. So what's how hard is it as we grow older and still have you still have your group of fans and maybe you guys have different opinions about things now? Like how hard is it to like me in the middle with that? I think it will make people listen to everything we've ever put out in a slightly different way as you sort of deconstruct the band in a way. And I think in an environment

that I think people are really into the polarization more than ever in history. How do we get a reaction, like calling you blue and you black and you red and you purple, you know, and sort of dividing people. I think this is a way to say, look, look what we did. We divided not to make a point of how different we are, but to accentuate how much we appreciate each other, right? And as a band, we're doing things that are more different than ever together, right? It's not really about that it has to be one way. It's that it can be all these different ways and still serve everybody.

I think about, you know, I've been married for about 15 years, and when I first got married, I think all of our fights were about all the things we were supposed to want to do together. Right. Right. You're trying to do every single thing together, and it creates conflict

because inevitably one person likes this thing over here, like walks in the park, and this person wants to play video games, and this person wants to, you know, go to Thai restaurants and this person wants just hamburgers, right? I think as you mature in your relationship, you realize that what you want to do is not do everything, but accentuate all the things you do well together.

And the things you don't like doing together, you should not do them together. Yeah. Like all the person. It reminds me of when we're, when we're proposing. preparing for a trip. And I say to my wife, honey, what do you need for me? And she says, for you to leave me alone. Right, right. I need for you to distract the children for the next seven hours. I want to go sit on the beach and read a book. What she's saying, right? Yeah, exactly.

She doesn't want you to sit on the beach next to her and read a book. Yeah. The deeper underlying issue is how many comparisons you're making to your relationship with your wife and your relationship with your brother. Yeah. That's what we needed. Well, you know, it's kind of like a Freudian thing. you kind of fall in love with either your mom or your brother in some weird way. And, you know, what I was trying to talk about, you know, I appreciate what, how that is with, like, giving each other their time to grow in their space. I'm also talking about, do you guys ever, like, beat the shit of each other? You all ever got in some, like, anger issues with each other? Like, never, like, you guys always, never, yeah.

Absolutely. What was the worst one? You mean the last, you mean the last tour? Yeah. Give me the dirt, dude. Give me the dirt. What happened? We're talkers. You're like Black Crows? You're like the Robinson's.

There's never been particularly physical. That's not ever been. I mean, it does happen. It normally is my fault. Yeah. I agree. Most, I mean, it's very, very rare for something to get, you know, to the point where people are getting, really losing that kind of control.

And what Zach said is true. I mean, the understanding where you're strong and backing off where you're not is, that's a balance. And I mean, anybody that's had a team, you know, of any kind of any team, like, this is what we're going to do. You've got to have different, different leanings. That's what it makes it successful. Like, everybody's not playing the same role. Like you're going, hey, man, there's good here to go.

But it is, I mean, it's stretching. And we, you know, like we said, this year, we had 30 years playing music together. Let's fucking go. And there's no question. Yeah, I'm going to clap to that. Let's go, Hanson. Let's fucking go, Hanson. Hell yeah.

So it's, there's no question. It's not, it's not the exact same thing. It was 10 years ago, 20 years ago. three years ago. But I think there is a respect for one another and realizing that it's a long road. You're not expecting everything, every situation to be exactly the panacea. So you keep looking from places where you build stuff together. And man, I mean, nothing is more powerful than we're walking on stage and playing music in front of people. It is such an, it's like a spiritual experience to look across the audience and say, wow, these people chose to be in this room. I don't know,

I don't know people, everybody's son's mom and cousin and boyfriend and girlfriend, but we're all sharing this experience right now. I mean, that is, that's something that really gets, you know, puts things back into focus as an artist. It's like, okay, that's worth it. You know, it's true. You know, it's like it becomes to all about the music. Like, it's got to be hard when, like, your face to, like, talk about politics and stuff, right? Oh, yeah. It's like, how hard.

Like, it's like when you're talking about, you know, whatever thing you might have been talking about with your friends or something. and all of a sudden it gets in the news or something, like the COVID thing or the gun thing and stuff. It's got to be hard to, like, have your opinion, like feel like we need to give an opinion on some things when we just want to play music and let the music talk, right? It's a tricky thing. It's like if you can just say,

just because you think it doesn't mean you should say it. It's like, you know, everybody just go watch them, you know, watch Bambi and listen to Thumbers' mom. It's like, you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. So sometimes, like, that's part of the thing. with music and band. It's like, we got into doing what we do to make music and share. And yeah, you can't have all of that stuff. Everything doesn't, you know, everything's not meant to be

discussed and agreed on and made, you know. Well, I think, I think to speak to that, too, there's a song on a fanically EP that we put out in 2020. And there's a song called Beginning in. And one of the lines in one of the verses is the heart of the matter is the measure of a man. and for me, I think more than anything, look, we've all got opinions. They're kind of like assholes and they all stink. Same. Everyone has a podcast. You know, so everybody has a podcast in the LCA.

Everyone's got a comment section. In fact, my left foot also has a podcast. Exactly. But there's a tricky thing, which is I think you've got to, you got to, like, I posted on Instagram a while back, you know, open hearts and open mind solve problems. And I think more than any. anything, you got, music allows people to open their hearts and open their minds. And I think if you can, if you can implore people to do that more often in their life, then some of the details and the

chaos of, you know, real challenges and real opinions and real hard things to deal with can hopefully be dealt with in a more, in a more kind of even keeled way. And it's a tricky world out there. And especially when the comment section exists on everybody's got to be fucking hard. everybody's Instagram. It's hard because you're just getting feedback all the time from like, you're like, who the heck's that guy? Right.

You know, like he don't even know. It's like some dude from Finland. And you're like, I don't know. You ever said something you wish you didn't say online? Oh, gosh.

I'm sure. What was the worst one that gave you like come like. Another week. What's the worst one, boys, that he said that was like, God damn it. Yeah.

I think there have been, I think there have been plenty. It's one of those things where someone, where if someone asks you that, you know, the goal is don't say it. by the way, we're on the internet right now.

Respect, respect. I'll clap to that. I'll clap to that. You guys have been trained well. I can tell you the worst thing I said. These publicists have trade you well, Hansen. Oh, shit. No, that's great, man.

You know, and it's like you live and learn. Like, I've said some things like earlier podcast where I'm just like talking about like my cum and like my dick and like just like, just like shit that I shouldn't be saying but like I'm a I'm a fanboy of Howard Stern and stuff. And, you know, Howard is such a great interviewer, but he also is personal. And like, it's a fine line because our fans want us to be personal and want to see our personalities.

So, like, when you feel like you have to be, um, shut down from the person you really are, how hard is that? It's got to be hard. It's a tricky fine line, right? And part of it is people like, people like the personality of the person they're listening to, right? And so, and so you, it's always a tricky. It's always a tricky balance.

I mean, I'm one of those people that would prefer honesty. Yeah. And more conversation and more candidness in most cases, not in all cases, but in most cases, especially in environments like this, you know, where you just, you are trying to be as personal and real as you can be. And obviously, look, there's a lot of things, there's a lot of things that you probably shouldn't say out loud. and we try and avoid those as much as we can't feel. That's why they call them inside. That's what my manager calls him. Inside voice.

I was talking to a friend about music, another musician, who plays one of the songs on the blue part of the album. And we were talking about... Not the sad part, just the blue part. Yeah, this is the blue color part. And we were talking about fans. And he was talking about how, for him, sometimes it's hard to do meet and greet,

where people walk in, right? And they have all these experiences and things they're bringing with them. And you're like, I don't know this person. But they're telling me they changed, I changed their life. It's really personal for them. And it can be, it can be hard to be in that position because you're like, I wrote this song so that people would be able to get through that moment.

Yeah. But I don't know you, right? I don't know you. So how do I, how do I meet you where you are when you have, let's say, in our case, 25 years of history of knowing me? And I've known you two minutes. Yeah. They grew up with you.

I can't meet you there. Now, that doesn't mean I don't love that you felt that feeling and I don't value it, right? And I don't want it for you. It's just, it's a lot of pressure. And I think it's interesting. And that kind of thing, I think, happens in so many ways when you sort of get to hold the seat of the public figure where everything you say is not like the conversation you would have with your friend at the bar. No. Right.

You can't be all things. You can't be all things to all people and you can't have everybody, you know. But if you say something stupid or you say something funny or you go over a lie. Sometimes stupid and funny are the same thing. Well, if you were doing it with your friend at the bar, you just kind of go like, oh, that's Ben. Yeah. Right. And then you move on.

Right. Yeah. But when you do it in this position. And also six people hear you. Yeah. That's one of the reason you can say, oh, that's Ben. You were on a billboard and everyone in every bar downtown, they'd be like a mob outside. They were like, you're bad.

You're back. Did you hear what he just said? Well, it's also because that's part of the problem. Yeah, that is part of the problem. When you're not friends with everyone. Well, so one of the things, yeah, we were talking, I mentioned this about it's unfair. Like, we put ourselves out there. So we kind of get when we asked for it versus like the dry cleaner.

Right. Yeah. Just like actually the corner business. There's something that's happened that's going to have to get sort of reset in our generation's the next generation that our kids are growing up with one. It's a challenge. Challenge. To check it at the,

some of them at the door, because humans are not met to be able to manage every possible crisis happening at any point in the world at any time. Oh, at the same time. Yeah, people wake up every day and it's enough to, like, get your kids to school, take care of your family,

like work at the job, maybe you have a creative idea, grab a beer with people you know, let alone someone halfway around the world said a horrible thing. And now that person looks like you or that person sounds like you or that person's from the country you're from, let alone,

It creates too much. It's way too much. And it's not even, it has nothing to do with your point of view. It has to do with all humans born into existence. Well, there's a psychological reality. There's too much pressure to put on the idea of being able to get through the day as a person. And I think like we, you asked earlier, like how have we not gone crazy? Like unbelievable amounts of grace.

Yeah. That was bestowed on us because you know, we know artists, let alone just people that are now, you know, I'm almost 40 years into life. Like there's so many. chances so many times where you should have been like either like on the street, you know, broke, you know, not had success doing things. Really offended. Dead and got at that time I took your keys. Like all the stuff that should have happened, you know, like the year is likely.

It's. Motorcycle accidents. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, drove into a wall on a brick. I was just behind him on the motorcycle. Yeah. You saw him eat shit?

Oh, yeah. It was right. Like 100 feet in front of me. It wasn't shit. It was brick. Oh my God. He's on brick. How did you thought he was dead?

I was worried he wasn't going to walk. Frankly, I was right behind him and I watched him fly across an intersection into a wall. But the thing is, yeah, so Zach should not be here. It's so sad actually because the really, I know it really wounded your pride. I didn't mean to open up that. I meant to say it happens. I love that motorcycle. She'll always live in my heart.

Yeah. And one day, I'll just get another. You know Chris Carrava. Yeah, yeah, we know. Chris had a bad accident too, a motorcycle accident too. Really bad. We thought he was going down too. And it was super hard for him, I know.

But we all still have motorcycles, which brings you back to why we shouldn't be here. Full circle, dog. That's a fucking story. That's a fucking fan motorcycle. That's a full answer. We get right back on the horse and keep making the same bad choices. That's because living is about taking chances, man. You're right.

Why do you, and it's not, you know, just different people choose different things and having that choice to make mistakes as part of what makes the story interesting. And I have, I hate to say it, but I sound like the older brother because I am and I am that guy. He's not a motorcycle. I don't have a motorcycle. Yeah, let me just. You're like, I fucking told you so.

Exactly. No, I have never said that. I have never said that. I have just been the thoughtful, considerate big brother that drove back to the hospital in his truck. That, that too sounds a little passive. dresses. I was like, you know, I'm just like, they had one of those times.

You know, it sort of peeled me off the pavement, put me in a car. I didn't have to say I told you, so he just went. Well, thank God you have a big brother who has like, you know, under, I'm, that, you've got to have guys like that in your, in your head. That's like, you've got to have people you can. Yeah, it's true. Hanson. That's the jam.

I mean, I think that the fact of being able to just realize that you're going to screw up and yeah it's not the end of the world man you guys are fucking way cool than I thought dude you guys are dope motherfuckers dude I swear to God because I was worried to talk to you I thought you know a lot of people who've been in the industry for 30 years and like just done a bunch of interviews or just they just go through the the cycle of it and you and I appreciate you being honest about thing and being honest about life and being in a band and being brothers it's it's fucking hard and for you guys yeah especially you guys have like you said it well.

Yeah, and you got 15 or 20 kids out there just like, you're just like, it's a handsome community, man. And as one of those are the ones we know about. Let's go. Let's go. I didn't even get to the years of 13 to 17. I should, Doc. You guys are just, that's one thing too. Like, what does it like to be like sex symbols at 13?

It's awkward. Just like you know how you felt when you were awkward. You guys been hot your whole life. You guys have been hot your whole life. Seriously. When did you start settling down? I appreciate that. You guys feel like you always been family men.

So like when did you meet your girls? Like younger in life? Or did you guys have a state where you're like you're making love and like getting down? I just, I want to point something out that people sometimes need this about kind of the hormones and girls everywhere, right? They're going like this the whole time. Oh my.

No, that's like, yeah. It's not very. That's not hot. It's not until it all settles down and then you're like, Don't you want to make out with that hyena? Not really. They're all out of, they're like lost their voice after the show.

Yeah, that doesn't sound fun. And so I think honestly, every band should have that as their star. Because they just get a better perspective. Like instead of thinking, oh, look at all these cute chicks that are into me.

They'd be like, oh my God, you're right. I should have been a pop star, not a jam star. All of our fans. are just even more insulted. He only could have been a pop star

like you said. I mean, yeah, we all let our wives at shows in some capacity or in cool. And you all brought them back to Tulsa? Did you guys all move back to Tulsa? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I mean, I don't know how I pulled my wife away from the beach, but, you know.

Yes, they're all southern ladies and they all live in Oklahoma. Yeah. And we can take them after years that this is the South. That's amazing. Do you ever meet Leon Russell? That's not. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, we were, I mean, we were good. I mean, I became fairly close to them, especially later in his life. What'd you learn about life and music from Leon?

Well, there's the funny things and then there's the like straight up. I mean, the dark things too. I mean, for one, it's a, you know, it takes a toll. I mean, being staying hot to trot and staying, you know, fighting for this thing over years. I mean, it beats you up. You know, it definitely runs like you were. running hot for a long time and put some wear and tear on it. His body was like so far. Some of it was just how he was, but some of it was just the life on the road and never stopping. I think the biggest thing about Leon is just when you look at his career and how many times he decided to start over and just go for it again, build a new studio and try a new way. I think that's a huge part of his legacy as a musician as someone that you can look at, because I think that's maybe the biggest thing you come across as a musician with history is how do I start over?

Am I brave enough to try something different because it's what I really want? It's what I'm really excited by. Maybe it won't work. Well, continuing to reinvent yourself. I mean, he was a legend as a player as a session musician and then became an artist. And then he became this legendary, you know, sort of legacy artists that other people admired. And by the time, you know, but when I'm, we began to know him, we knew him for years. but knew him better in his later years.

And he was still hungry. He was still genuinely excited about what he was doing next. Intention. I mean, the last time I was with him, Isaac and I think you saw him that same day. We had breakfast with him. And he was sitting in our car talking about music

and playing the latest record he made, excited about it. Almost like somebody is like, hey, what do you think? You know, wants to actually know what another person thinks the same way you would when you made your first record. He was, you know, he was 75. So, like, that's the takeaway.

It's like he was still, I think, as young and energetic as he was, you know, because he was interested in it. I got the open for Leon for a month or so. And he was like, this was when I was like hopped up on Coke and just like one night stands. And he'd see me at the end of the night in his wheelchair and stuff. He's like, you're not going to be able to do that forever. And it's like, and it just like hit me because he's in a wheelchair. he's got the big old speaker right by his ear. Have you seen that speaker he has on the States?

Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Just straight at his ear. I'm like, oh, shit, he's giving me advice that I can't, I can't sustain this type of lifestyle. It's crazy. Yeah, well, yeah. It's going to hit the car. Yeah.

But, I mean, it was still, he was still fighting for it. I mean, he was, you know, he had ideas that were well beyond. He was also an unbelievably innovative mind. Oh, my God. He saw stuff. I mean, he was, he was conceiving of music videos, of multi-track, you know, types of recording. I mean, just the whole way he's... The studio he built in Tulsa.

He built in a church, called it the church studio. It's actually been recently renovated. But he had two floors worth of control room. One was the audio control room and the upstairs was the video control room. And his idea was this, because he was seeing music videos coming. This is in the early mid-70s. It was like, no, music videos, it's. going to be like filming studio performances and live performances so we need to be ready for that

and so he literally had his studio built it that built that way sick so and and i love the young guys in his band like beau you know beau um yeah yeah they those guys always back me up on him in toulson don't have a band i just think it's goes back to the community of how you were raised that's i think that's why you guys didn't get hopped up on drugs and pussy and shit because Like, you guys were raised good. Your parents raised you to be, to just focus on your craft and put intention in, you call faith, but put intention into the things that make you passionate and make you love. And for that, I'm going to clap up for your fucking parents.

Let's go hands to parents. Hell yeah. Shout out. I agree with you. No, seriously, because some people get famous at young and get fucked up by it. And it's all about how you were raised and the morals that your parents taught you. so I'm going to give a I'm going to give a shout out to your parents

that's fucking awesome and I will say too it's you know you can have a lot of fun and have a good time but you don't have to let the good time take over from the intention that you have right right and so I think that's really

just trying to find that balance of having fun and enjoying the life you've got and loving it and putting in the good putting in that good fun and the good and stuff but also yeah not losing the reason that got you there in the first place which I think we had the, in a weird way,

the youth actually probably contributed to us being more focused on the craft than not in some ways. Because it was almost like we got into this thing and started to see success in a significant way, almost pre-hormones in some sense, you know? It's really focused on craft macaroni and cheese. Yeah, exactly.

And if you've ever snorted craft macaroni and cheese, you don't want none of this shit, do we? It gives it cavities. Guys, thank you so much. God bless. Thank you so much for your time. Very nice to meet you. We all got to hang out when you guys live in Tulsa.

I play canes all the time. So I'll get your number from from Paul. Or just say, hey, don't, don't give my number to Frasco. That's fine too. But it's happening. Let's hang. Let's write some tunes. We'll pour some crats, macaroni, and cheese.

And have a good time. I'm down. I'll bring the, I'll bring the weed. I'll do it so I could, I could, I could snore that. Okay, cool. There's a lot in Oklahoma. Oklahoma is now the second highest state of the union.

So this is a great place to be. Let's go, Oklahoma. We thought it was going to be. We got all the freedom. Freedom of religion, freedom of firearms, freedom and drugs. Oh, yeah. Treat yourself.

When you think of freedom, you think of Oklahoma, baby. Let's go. Guys, thank you so much for me on the show. Hope you guys have a great tour. season. Thank you, man. Thank you. We appreciate it. Have a good one, dude.