Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - Jackson Wetherbee onJay-Z Telling Him to Drop Out of College and Selling out Red Rocks

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

Jackson Wetherbee of The Elovaters joins the pod for one of the realest conversations we've had about what it actually takes to "make it" in music. From getting discovered by Jay-Z at 19… to getting dropped by a major label… to grinding bar gigs for nearly a decade while raising a kid… to finally selling out Red Rocks Amphitheatre — this episode is all about patience, consistency, and staying independent. We talk: • The insane story of playing for Jay-Z in person • Why he dropped out of college after signing to Universal • Touring in a converted school bus • Balancing fatherhood with life on the road • The reggae scene's secret success formula • Why The Elovaters turned down major label offers • Nashville songwriting culture • Stick Figure, Dirty Heads, Pepper & the rise of independent "coastal" music • Building a career without blowing yourself up along the way One of the best musician conversations we've had in a minute.  

How does it feel? This is like, I mean, you're selling out everywhere. It's like, it's happening. But like also, you've been doing this for a long time. No one realized it's not like a next day success. Like how do you feel, how do you feel like, how are you taking the success right now? I think my first question is. Dude, great. You know, it's, we're learning how to balance, um, being on the road and coming home and disconnecting a little bit, recharge your batteries. Yeah, I heard you I heard you bought a farm

What? I didn't buy a farm I live on my best friend's farm Oh, okay That's even better Bonji Well, that's still tight They have farms in Boston?

Oh yeah You're He's like closer to Plymouth Oh, okay What's the actual town that you live in? Plimpton Plimpton So tell me about like

Why did you decide to move Into a farm It's just beautiful man 60 acres 14 horses 30 cows Oh my God Do you milk

Learning how to ride on horses Really? No You ever ride the cows I don't go near the others Do you ride a horse and shit? I started to yeah Do you have you eaten shit

Like what's a what's a Isn't that intimidating to ride a horse They're fucking huge They're big But they're super friendly here Yeah The lady that runs all the stables Is a great instructor

Yeah it's been cool we got a motorcycle you got oh my god he's like living real rock star shit now he's doing so many of a leather jacket what let's fucking go

I don't like how many dangerous things you're doing though I know no I mean you got Were you dangerous when you're a kid Like did you like danger like what was your tell me about you growing up as a kid like what were

what did you like what were your passions just like sports paintball. I lived between up here in Boston and Georgia. So, just classic kid shit.

Paintball. I went to high school with like the biggest paintball manufacturers in the world. Isn't paintball expensive? Was it expensive as a kid? Don't you have to like buy paint and all that shit?

Yeah. You ever heard of Tipman? Yeah, it's kind of expensive. It's pretty crazy. Tipman Numerics. You ever heard of that? Tipmans, dude. I remember the Titmans.

They went to my high school. It's like a company from Fort Wayne. Oh, no way. Yeah. Well, there's like a million titmans. Fort Wayne. It's like a cult almost. But yeah, they started that company. Now they're mad rich. You know what else is new? He's a new member of the tribe. He's Jewish now. Oh, when now?

Ish. Ish. We say Jewish. My dad, I'm Jewish. I'm half half. Wait a second. You're a new member? He's a newbie. He just got married. Oh, okay. My wife is Jewish as well. So your kids are definitely Jewish then, right? That's how it works. If the mom's Jewish. Well, I also want to talk. They will be. Yeah. Don't you have a kid too? Don't you have a 12 old kid? Yeah. So tell me about like, you know, like when you're getting this band started, was there a lot of pressure of coming home and like really focusing in on just being a dad?

Like how did you balance the beginning years of the elevators while having the kid and stuff? Yeah, I mean, it's just a heart balance. But I just wanted to work my butt off and prove to him that you can really do something that you dream about if you put the work ethic behind it. It's fucking amazing. Dude, you're pretty fucking humble, dude. Yeah. Especially, like, because, you know, we all grind and stuff.

Like, you ever get a little, do you ever had any points in your career? You're like, a little jaded you. Like, oh, fuck this. It's not working right now. Or, like, did you always know that it was going to pop off? I didn't know I was going to pop off. I just didn't know what else I was going to go do. Yeah.

So what did you, like, yeah, tell me your, I got my real estate license for a while. Oh, sick. I didn't really like that. Tell me about that. Tell me some horror stories about that. No real horror stories. I just, it's not the same as playing music.

I went from playing like, you know, bars seven nights a week, just doing the bar gig thing for maybe eight years. I was briefly signed to Universal Records for a second. But then everything fell apart there. So I just became a bar guy. How old were you when you signed? Universal. It's like Billy Joel. It's like 19.

Oh, wow. We going as a solo act or were you guys going as? I heard you guys were called the Cornerstone. Yeah, this was before that. This was just Jackson Weatherby band. Oh. Okay. So tell me about these years. Tell me about the record deal. Tell me about the young Universal Records music. Was it also reggae? It was more singer-songwriter. And we were kind of just getting into it. And then Jay-Z left and Elie. A. Reed left. So Island Def Jam became just chaotic. And I got

I got dropped in the process. Isn't it crazy? When your A and R gets fired, like you're kind of just like a sitting duck, right? Yeah, I mean, it was just like all these things kind of promised to you and then there's just nothing. Jay Z told me to leave

college, so I did. I would probably leave college if Jay Z told me to leave college. Hold on. Did you actually had conversations with Jay Z? Oh yeah I had to go play for him and Rob Stevenson What's the fuck on?

Tell me this whole thing Dude tell me this whole fucking thing They had Sorry I was gonna call All right Do you guys hear me? Yeah Yeah

Yeah so This guy knew was building Rock the Mic Studios for Jay Z And so he slid him my demo And Jay Brown And L.A. Reed wanted to hear me in

person because they didn't believe that my vocal were auto-tuned. So they had me come up to Universal Records, went up into Jay Brown's office, and I played for Jay-Z, Jay Brown, Rob Stubbs, and all the ANR. And, yeah, he's like, well, you're part of the family now. So you're not going back to college, buddy.

And he told my mom that. And we left from New York City back to Westfield State. And I just grabbed all my stuff and left. Okay, so Professor Z said I have to drop out. Dr. Z said, Dr. Z says I have to leave town. Probably saved you $80,000 in suit alone.

Yeah, what school were you going to do? Westfield State. I was on scholarship for, like, a music scholarship. Were you, like, musical theater or like just music, like, vocal or voice? Vocal. It was mostly Italian opera. What? Hold on a joke.

You can't just be saying all this shit. Okay, so Italian opera. This is wild. And then, so what was the song? What was the song that you sent Jay-Z? Do you still remember it? No, it was like my whole first album. It was like an EP.

Did you feel like it was like that good? Or like what was going through your head? Like, were you a confident kid? Like growing up or you weren't? I mean, I wasn't like over. confident. I was horrified when I was in person with Jay-Z.

I would be too, dude. I mean, I had, people told me I had a good voice and I was really loving writing songs, so. Yeah. That's fucking crazy. Okay, so you signed? Jay-Z is like, don't get a degree in an Italian opera. You sign, right? You leave school.

You sign this deal. Now what's the process? Are you writing songs every day with different writers or are you just like, didn't even get that far. Really? It was kind of, we were in the middle of working out what a good deal would be for me. And my producer at the time wanted points for finding me.

And it was just getting through the whole process and figuring out what the sound was going to be. And then everything hit the fan. Everything's real estate, huh? Everything is real estate. No wonder you wanted to go into real estate. It's literally just the pipeline is there, man. But isn't it fucked up, though, that people are.

trying to get their cut before they even like even like developed you like they're like oh we got you the deal but that's just the beginning you have to like fucking do the work now right yeah i mean i can see where he was like you know finder's fee yeah um like you're a piece of property like yeah it's like that's crazy dude is that crazy i mean honestly when you're in that position though it's kind of like yeah sure anything whatever let's make this happen right yeah um how like all your dreams suddenly coming true. Now, how old are you, Jackson? 39.

Yeah, your same age as me. So how would you approach that same Jay-Z deal now as a 39-year-old? Well, we were just offered a bunch of deals from Atlanta. Elevators did? Staying independent or are you on a different label? Let's fucking go. I like it. We've been independent.

We're just going to continue on with ineffable. Yeah, that's awesome. The records, they manage us. and Thomas Cousins Yeah, Reed Foster Well, we just have a great team And things seem to be working out for us So I'm not really sure

What major record labels can really do for you anymore It doesn't seem like they have the same reach They used to What they offer you? Do they offer you the world? Do they offer you just money? They offer you distribution? Like what was the type of deal they were giving you?

They were great. They were coming back with a whole bunch of different options Yeah And it just didn't make sense for us the end of the day. This is why I like... The power of no. And the power of staying loyal to the people who actually built you is the most important thing. You know, those guys brought you up.

They believed you in the beginning. I mean, and they did a great job with stick figure. And it feels like you're on that path of independent like stick figure was. And if it ain't broke, don't fucking fix it, right? It feels like a big family. I'm from the same town of stick figure. Yeah. And he really vouched first early on with the defible.

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And Jason, who runs the company, is just a great guy. That's not what he said to say. He told us to say, also my best friend Jason has a huge hog. And that's true. So grab Gardenaista and let them know Frasco and Jason's huge hog sent you. All right, goodbye. Enjoy the interview. Tell me about growing up with Stick. Where'd you grow up, what school you went to. Give us the details for people who don't know who you are. Yeah, I was born in Georgia, moved up here to a town called Kingston, Massachusetts, back to Georgia, back to Kingston, that I transferred high schools to Duxpray High School. And I was in the same grade as Scott's little brother, Willie. He's one of my closest buddies. He was actually one of the best

men in my wedding. Oh, really? That's cool. That's cool. I was at the wedding. but um yes scott just knew of me in high school and it has always just been super supportive and thought i had talent and promise and so he was always bugging thomas cousins to sign us so when we started the elemases and started putting out albums um he really he really went to bat for us when did you when did you meet your boys like what was uh because you guys are i love your keyboard player that guy fucking rules He's the man.

Dude, he's crazy. We had a fun night with him. We had a great fucking night in Plymouth, dude. That dude fucking rules. He showed us the best hospitality. We saw Plymouth Rock. Yeah. I didn't realize Plymouth Rock was that small.

Yeah, kind of a letdown. It's tiny. Yeah. Okay, so what was the first song you felt that was great? You thought that you wrote that was great? Maybe Margaritas, I think. Margaritas? How old were you when you wrote it?

Oh, I don't know. 20. I don't know, eight. 28? Was this with your band or by yourself? With the band. Cool. So what were the years from,

so you met, you met cousins. When did cousins start managing you? Like after the universal, or after the, the Def Jam deal? Yeah, how many years after? Oh, shit.

So what were you doing in those 10 years? Playing bar gigs. Fuck yeah. Like where, in Massachusetts? In Georgia. Yeah. No, no, all around the South Shore in Boston. Cool.

Was he with some weddings. It's fucking sick. How old were you when you met the boys? It was like 25, 24, 25. 25, so you haven't had the kid yet. So you have three years in. I did have the kid. He was, so what I?

He was probably two, one when I met the boys. Yeah. Okay. So what's the philosophy? Like what's like you have a one year old, you have a new band, what was the vision? Just to take it super serious, not do covers, we're not going to be a cover bar gig. Find people that are young around us that want a tour, down to eat some peanut butter sandwiches. And we wanted to tour, write original music.

We played original music in bars and saved up all of our money to record. record our first album. What was it called? We called it the Cornerstone. Yeah. Because that was our old band name. Yeah, what happened there? You said someone had a band,

Bodge, Boney said your band. This Austrian band was called the Cornerstone. Like an Austrian head, middle band. And they sent us like a season to fist letter. All the ones got taken down off of iTunes and Spotify.

Shut the fuck up. I didn't know that way. international actually. I guess it makes sense, actually. Were they big? No. They just had rich dads or what? I think they were like, it was like their side project. I'm pretty sure like some of their band members were attorneys in Austria.

Oh, there it is. And so we changed a band name to the elevator. She named the first album, The Cornerstone. Oh, that's cool. Elevator is a cool name, I think. Yeah. I think it's better, yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so who's the first guy that you just like, that's my musical part. Who was the first guy in the band that you met? They were like, that's my dog. Let's fucking ride or die together. That was Asta, our dreamer, Nick Asta. So tell me about your relationship with him. What did you see in him? We were at a bar one night.

He was playing with his old band. And he approached me like, hey, we should write some original music sometime. And we both came up with a concept of just making sure it just stays all original. A bunch of people from the South Shore. And we just started getting together and writing songs in our players' garage. And booking some gigs. And, yeah. What made...

What made you want to, like, you know... I've been traveling since I was 19, too. I was like, I always think of myself, what made me just want to keep running? You know, what was like... What was like... Did you have like a weird family relationship, or did you feel like you weren't accepted? Like, what made you want to just keep traveling and running?

I've just been so intrigued by music ever since I was a little teeny kid. Yeah. And it just always stuck with me, and it seemed to be the thing I was best at. And I'd already put so much effort in years and time into playing. I was just always kind of like, I don't know what else I would do. it felt like a major restart to maybe go back to college or pursue a different career.

I wasn't sure how to be successful at something else. So maybe just that being the only thing I had a lot of faith in kept me going. Were your parents really supportive about your career? Sometimes.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, what's your relationship? Like, was it like until they didn't, Probably supportive now. Probably supportive now. You're making money. They're selling out fucking red rocks and shit.

But I always had that chip on my shoulder, too, because my parents always said, follow your dreams, but they always thought I was going to, like, not really fucking... But we want your dream to be real estate. But, like, if the backup plan needs to be something you make money on.

Right, right. As long as your dream's commercial real estate. Yeah. What was it... Was there pressure to be successful because of that? There was pressure for them to just make sure I was okay. Yeah.

You know, I don't think, they didn't see a future of me playing bar gigs. No. So I think there were some years there where, like, you know, maybe we should start figuring something that you can pursue. And, you know, that's why I got my real estate license.

I was like, you know, I don't want to be 50, 60 playing still just like bar gigs in Boston and, yeah. You know, I want to own a home Sunday, hopefully. playing Margaritaville on a farm yeah play margarita with that bar in the Plymouth

yeah with the one we went to that one we went to that was that that bar actually ruled in Plymouth yeah what was that place god what's that place you guys always hang about it's like right across the street from Plymouth Rock almost yeah that's where everyone hangs and all the musicians play yeah that plays fucking ruled dude yeah I never heard so many women just

talking shit to people it was awesome it was like that wasn't in to Plymouth yeah who the fuck are you So why did you pick, if you knew you were going to be a songwriter, why did you pick Italian opera? What was the past, why did you, what were you passionate about with opera? Dude, it wasn't really all that passionate. It's just my vocal teacher was teaching me from the foundational standpoint of Italian opera.

And then I went and tried to try to get scholarship. Yeah. And I got a scholarship. So I was maybe going to do it for two years and get as many jobs. and get as many general expectations out of the way and switch to music or something. Yeah. But I wasn't really passionate about Italian opera.

I was more passionate about writing songs and singing. But it taught you the fundamentals to, like, be able to sing all the time every day. I mean, five days a week, right? Yeah. Good technique, yeah. It's like musical cardio. Okay, tell me about the first years of touring.

Tell me about it. Those first, you guys, we got a van. We got some shows. Who booked this shows? It was DIY. Give me the deeds of who did what in the band in the beginning years. Yeah, my dad gave us a loan. We bought a short bus.

Really? Yeah, we converted it and started booking our own show. And then we had this guy named Justin that was helping. And I can't believe we survived. I mean, it was just pure. chaos. Yeah, we needed the structure of inevitable. So, thank God. And there's like seven of you, by the way. It's not like it's a three piece. It's seven guys. Yeah, we need fucking cousins to fucking whip us in the shape of shit. Somebody check our email. Have you surpassed, like,

going back to those early days, like, now that you've like sold out red rocks and you're doing all these huge things, have you surpassed like what your dreams were back then? Like, have you, like, was your goal of this or have you gone past what your goal was then? Like if you went back and showed yourself now to that person, then would you be surprised? Definitely. I'm definitely proud of everything we've done. I remember the first time we got an offer just to play at Red Rocks. Actually, you played a show show.

I played with you guys. Was it a slightly stupid? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I was sick. And I just remember looking out during their set and we played with a stick for your and just wondering like, how the fuck do you get this?

this many people to come to a show in Denver. It just seems impossible. And you just keep working your ass off and stay on the road and keep writing and trying to get better your craft. And before you know it, you have, you know, Reed and Thomas call him you saying,

congratulations, boys, you just sold out Red Rocks three months early. Three months early. Holy shit. That's like, that's fucking crazy. It's fucking nuts.

In this economy? And this is all the way. You know what else is crazy? To see the pockets of reggae fans in all these different areas that are not on the beach. Yeah. Right. Isn't that crazy? Very true.

Like, why is there such a huge fucking reggae scene in Ohio? It's huge there for some reason. It's fucking huge, dude. I think it just makes people feel good. You know, we're not really like a strict reggae band. It's more like. like a, maybe you could call like Cali Coastal style music or, yeah, something like that. I don't think stupid's that reggae either. You know, they're kind of like that Cali Coastal.

Yeah. And I just, it's, I don't even think it's a little bit of punk even maybe in there. Yeah. What's the difference between East Coast reggae and West Coast reggae? Uh, or Florida reggae? Is there any difference? Or is it just like, can you see the difference in the scene when you go play, in the south with bands versus the northeast or the west, or is it all just kind of just like a melting pot of Jamaica? I don't think there's like a big thumbprint from every single place. I mean, you know, California definitely has a bit of a sound. But like I said, stick figures from here.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. DeBast is from here originally. John Brown's body John Brown's body was sick They're fucking awesome Oh dude I thought they're more jam band

Were they like No they're like They're like straight up reggae Almost like dub kind of like Like yeah very traditional almost Yeah what's What's so Oh sorry go ahead

Ripe wasn't ripe You guys grew up with Ripe too Yeah those are our boys I didn't grow up with them no But we've run into them all the time around here What's the weirdest market We're like That you've been to

We're like how are there A thousand Reggae fans in this market like Arkansas Yeah, like Arkansas Yeah Yeah probably something like that Somewhere in the Midwest Indiana

There you go Yeah Represent They always go hard in Indiana They do dude Indianapolis It's fucking rages It's my home city bro

Yes Did you ever Do you ever get to a point With your touring Where the partying was getting too crazy And you guys all had to tone it down hair Or do you guys always had it in control no definitely

I think as the stakes get higher you know everything becomes a little more real there's more to lose yeah you start focusing on longevity yeah on health yeah

were you ever a party I never saw you as a partier like some margaritas and drinks and stuff like that yeah hell yeah but not like rip blow for three days or something not that's never been me it's not good for the voice man You got to sing opera. Yeah, dude, that's crazy.

So I think about, like, you know, like, and I also, like, appreciate, you know, because, you know, my little strangers are, like, one of my closest friends and how you guys took them on and fucking had their back and you guys both had each other's backs. The reggae scene seems like a very big, tight community.

Tropadelics of the worlds, the article sound systems of the world. How important is community in your whole philosophy of the elevators? Oh, it's everything. I mean, it's such a good community. That's what people keep coming out to shows. Yeah.

You know, the festivals keep growing. I think everybody's excited when a band is doing great because it's kind of like that old adage, like all ships rise with the tide. Oh, yeah, yeah, totally. If everybody is cranking out great music and albums and it's just, it's helping everybody. All the collaborations.

Yeah. Everybody's a good hang. The more years you do it, the more excited. to yours. Yeah. Are you competitive? I'm competitive with myself more than I am with other people. Like what,

what do you, what do you fight yourself? Write better songs, sing better, come a better guitar player. Yeah. I started doing a lot of writing down at Nashville. Yeah, me too.

Who are you riding with out there? My boy, Nick Bailey. Is he cool? What's his deal? So what did you? writes killer music. I've written with him for dirty heads a little bit. Yeah.

That's killer. I mean, I felt like I didn't start learning the craft until I started writing in Nashville. It's crazy how that was like, I felt like that was my college when I would write all my songs in Nashville. You realize like how fast these guys write songs, right?

It's mind-boggling. Yeah. During 3rd. three, four songs a day. And they're all like pretty good. And they're all pretty good. Yeah, they're all like a good start at least. Yeah.

Just focus on a chorus and a verse. Yeah. Like, all right, you can figure out the rest of it later. Let's move on the ideas there. We'll fix it in post. Do you, when you're writing, what's your theory about writing? Are you trying to write about experiences or do you write about imagination?

Both. Yeah. What do you feel like your strong point? is like writing about what you've gone through or writing about what you imagine. I think my strong point used to be more of what I've gone through. Yeah.

It's definitely more challenging to come up with a witty idea. Yeah. And then build a song that doesn't feel too cheesy or happy. Like, it still needs a little soul in there. Yeah. That's crazy. I, uh, I've,

because I was like, you know, it's like when you write somebody, because what, how many songs, how many records do you have now, Jackson? This will be our fifth that we're putting out. In May 15th, we're putting out a new album. That's cool. So like when you're writing for a dirty heads and stuff, like what songs do you keep for yourself? Like, you're like, damn, I don't want to give that song.

You ever get at that point? Like, damn, this is a really good song. I want to keep this for ourselves. But you have to write it for dirty heads? What's your process with that? I mean, for me, I don't get too long up on it. You know, if they want to use a song, that's a win.

Yeah. If they help me write a song, that's a win. If we get to collaborate with each other, that's a win. It's just kind of like just keep writing, keep writing. Who's your biggest inspirations in songwriting? I don't know. It's always changing. My new favorite is Stephen Wilson, Jr.

He's the fucking man. Another Indiana reference. Another fucking natural guy. I know that guy really will. I'll make an intro for you. He's awesome. Oh my God. You would blow my fucking mind.

Dude, he's the man. And he's so sweet. And he's, he's been grinding like us. He's been, we used to play with each other in Arkansas like 10 years ago. Really? I didn't know that.

No way. Yeah, he's the fucking man. Yeah, that version of standby mean, oh my God. I'm a song. Oh, my God.

And Gary? Father's son. Gary. I love his voice. I love his voice. I know a lot of boys named Gary these days. So are you into like the folk? Is that your thing?

You into Folk guys? I love folk music, yeah. Who else? Give me some, that's like my shit too. I'll see, Raylan Baxter. I love doing his albums a lot. Gregory Allen Isakov.

Oh, yeah. He's on like Black Car. Yeah, he's from Colorado. Yeah, I mean, I loved like Colin Hayes, acoustic stuff. Colin Haynes is sick too, dude. Yeah, we like the same shit, man. I'll hook you up with Raylan. I wrote four record.

He wrote with me four record. four songs off my last record. He's cool. He's a natural guy too. He's... What the hell? We got a meet up down there. Dude, we should go out there

and go just vibe for like four days and just write with all these guys. Chris Galbuta, have they introduced you to him yet? No. He's the fuck... Yeah, dude.

Who are the bands you grew up with touring with? The movement. Oh, yeah. Fuck yeah. I remember them, yeah. I mean, they're still killing. Stick figure.

Article sound system. We did some tour with them, cashed out. Pepper brought us on our first big tour. Pepper. Yeah. And then we've toured with Stupid, Dirty Heads, Soja. You ever get a dude tours with bands out of the scene? Like a Mountain Joy or like, I see that in your future too.

I love that big time. Camp or something? Yeah, you don't, our camp. Yeah, camp's killer too. He's blowing the fuck up. So good. Yeah, I mean, I just, yeah, I don't hear reggae and you guys. I hear folk.

I hear indie. I hear, like the same thing with Stranger. That's why I kind of love the reggae scene because they accept all these adjacent bands. Totally. Stranger doesn't write fucking reggae music. No, they're not. Maybe sometimes they'll do that. John will produce a track like that.

I wouldn't consider them a reggae band at all. No. I always get them shit. I was telling them they're a reggae band. Fuck you. I say that every time of the podcast. I say that every time. Okay, so what, you're a sports fan.

What are the parallels do you see in basketball music? Fuck, man. I don't know. Team. Be a good team player. Be a good leader. Nailed it. Work on the basics.

Yeah. That's what I want, that's what I want you to say. shower together. Shower together. Shower together. Jerk off together. Fucking watch. She don't make the stout.

She'd on rappers. Yeah. Chew on Megan Stallion together. That's crazy. The Clay Thompson thing's fucking hell. I know. But I just, that was the whole promotional fucking camera. Whatever.

So like, she'll be fine. You talk about being a team player. As you get more successful, do you see anyone not being a team player? Maybe yourself, maybe. Sometimes you, like, get absorbed in the ass kicking. And sometimes you forget about it.

Do you ever get in moments like that? No, man, we have, like, everybody in our band is just a bunch of sweethearts. Awesome. And, you know, everybody gets a little squabble here and there. We're all brothers, but we're living in a van together. But, no, I think everybody has stayed humble. Awesome. And we're just happy to be.

be here and just thankful. I want you one day just to flip it, just flip the script, just roll on stage with like a big ass fur coat, fucking Gucci sunglasses. Fucking Gucci sunglasses. Gold tooth. A fucking grill Jackson. Just one day like, what the fuck this guy changed? Face tattoos.

I know Jay Z bitch. Yeah, you got a neck tat that says Yolo. Says I know Jay Z. I know Jay Z. I know Jay C. Me and Jay Z are close and personal friends. Well, that's great. I mean, this is the best thing.

about getting successful later in your life? Because what if you got successful in 19? You know? I have no idea. I mean, I haven't changed that much. I've always been pretty mellow. Damn. Look at this guy.

I would have been sucked being rich your whole 20s, huh? I probably would have blown the money. No, there actually is something too much. I would have blown the money. You wouldn't have blown the money? I don't know, man. I feel like if you get money, I'd be too afraid to lose it.

See, I always knew he was Jewish. This is my guy. He was born to be Jewish. You said it. Shut the fuck up, Nick. I'm not going to speak. Shut the fuck up, Nick. I'm not going to speak on the Jewish faith.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me speak. I'm Jewish. I'm a good Catholic boy. All right, Jackson, a couple more things. Are you a planner? Do you make, are like, do you like doing things last minute, or do you prepare for,

success. Do you have records under your belt? Like you have another record. Are you working on another record? Are you working on three records? Like, what is your process of how you are approaching this fame and how you're delegating the work to keep it going? Yeah, I mean, like I said, we have our album. We're putting on May. We have a ton of more songs recorded as well on top of that. So, you know, my whole philosophy with that is just, if you have a lot of a whole entire drop box folder full of demos

and other songs you've recorded you know it's like being prepared that way you're never fall behind you have a label telling you

you've really got to put out an album this year and you have nothing ready for them I just think it feels a lot more natural if you just kind of

stay writing and you know have those in the chamber wow I totally um I totally um

I totally misunderstood you earlier in our life. I didn't know you were this planned and I'm glad we had this conversation. You're a good fucking dude, Jackson. You're a really good man. You're a good man. And I just, yeah, you're fucking smart. I'm a good guy too.

Shut up, Nick. I'm talking to Jackson. I mean, it takes, this is a beautiful conversation about how much it takes to fucking really make it in the music industry. And how much focus, it's not all about everyone thinks we're just partying and getting fucked up and you know, we like to have fun. I'm not saying

we're saints, but we fucking put our nose down and go to work, right? Have to. You have to. One last question I'll let you go. When it's all said and done, what do you want to be remembered by? You know, a good guy,

sick my ass off. Hell yeah. See, succinct. honest, hardworking, salt of the earth, salt of the earth, a dad, the only thing that's wrong with him that he's a fucking Celtics fan. That's all that's...

Have fun at the... Are they giving you courtside yet? They should be. Oh, yeah, I was a court side game two. Oh my God. I was Sir Alex of Tatum. No way. This is, look at you.

Are you excited? Do you look around? You're like, holy fuck. You're like Mark Wahlberg? Who are the famous people? people at the Celtics. Jackson, Mark Wahlberg. Boston celebrities are so funny.

What are the Boston celebrities like over there? I'm always looking for him. I know. You should tell me, yo, you just tell the Celtics, come on, man. Put me next to Mark Wahlberg. Let's get some real press going. Let's get them to fucking... Come on.

Come on. At least Donnie. At least Donnie. Come on. You know Donnie will fucking have some beers. Right, right, right. All right, buddy. Have a great one.

Good luck out there. Keep fighting a good fight. Thanks, everybody. That was pretty good. for a guy from Boston area. You know, you realize about all of our interviews from people from the Northeast, it's like, it's the question and it's the answer. Yeah, they don't like, yeah, it's like, yes.

Keep them moving. Might as well be a multiple choice. Yeah. I kind of like it, though. I like it too. I got shit to do. You know who else was like that? Billy McFarland.

Yeah, but he was, yeah, he was so fast. It was weird. It was like a sales conference or something. That was the first time I really hung, like, talk to Jackson. We had like a, I had a miss communication with him. I thought he was the movement. I thought his band was the movement.

They were talking, this reggae band. I've heard of them, yeah, yeah. And they're a little more like poppy than them, right? Yeah. Or something. They slept in my house one night, the movement. And they were just kind of like being a little cocky, being a little rude. I've kind of heard that about them, actually.

I know some people that have worked for them that said, anyway. Anyway, I don't want to get into it. Not. So I thought that band was, because that was the first time meeting those bands. Uh-huh. It was years ago. And I thought that was the elevators. So I told my friend Boney, hey Boney.

I know you're listening to this. I like that guy. He's fucking out of his mind. It took me a second to put together who he was. Every time the Lakers are losing, he's calling me, you dumb bitch, I told you Boston forever. I'm like, Boney's, it has nothing to do with Boston. It's November 13th. It's November 13th.

The Lakers just start to fucking see it. Shut the fuck up. It's 75 and sunny here. We don't give a shit yet. So I thought the elevators would that ban the movement. Nope. They're the elevators. So they're like,

what the fuck? So me and Jackson always had a little bit of a beef thing. A beef or you, he didn't know about it though. I think he knew. He's like, why is this guy talking, like,

oh, you were talking shit about him? I wasn't talking shit about him. I was just like, this band the movement. Oh, okay. I thought the movement was the elevator. Like,

this band of the elevator was like, slept at my house. And it wasn't, they were just kind of rude and, Rude like how were they rude? Throwing a party, brought all these dudes over. I mean, what's reggae? It's reggae.

Not a lot of girls are reg. Actually, there's some girls who are older dudes. But yada yada. So I thought it was the elevators the whole time. So I guess they heard one of the podcasts when I was talking about the party. And she's like, oh my God, frat shog talking shit about the elevators. Fuck the Lakers. So I apologize Jackson and the elevators.

It wasn't you. you guys are the best. And then we squashed the beef. That's what we went to Plymouth. That was fun. And hung out with the boys. And that was fun. But I never got to actually talk to Jackson.

So I just want to say, I love you, buddy, if you were listening to this. And the interview is great. Anyway, I had to get that off my chest. Very chill guy. Wow. I wish I was at chill. Do you? No.

It would be interesting. Actually, I do. No. No. That's funny. I do, actually. I, he's very focused.

Yeah. He's, it's like military. Maybe you should have a kid. That'll lock you in. I think that's what happened. He had a kid younger and it locked him in. Didn't have Go Puff back then.

Oh my God. Nope. We're not going there. We're not going there. Inside joke. But yeah, he's very focused, man. Now it makes sense why they're selling our Red Rocks and they're, They're starting to pass their contemporaries.

They're starting to pass their contemporaries, for sure. They're becoming like, they're on that pathway, that stick figure. You remember like stick? No one knew what stick figure, like there was like a scene that really knew them. Yeah. And then they, it's like the Billy String syndrome. Like Billy was like, yeah, doing his own thing, selling out theaters, selling out. And then you wake up, he's selling out fucking arenas.

Like three nights in a row. Stadiums. I think the elevators are on that trajectory. You know, it's pretty cool. They do have that vibe. They got that vibe. Damn, Thomas Cousins, man. He could really fucking...

I don't know who that is. Oh, that man, Joe. Yeah. I mean, he did it with stick figure. He's doing it with the elevators. You know, he has a lane. He knows how to blow up a lane. I can't.

You got to give that man some respect. It's hard to do. Yeah. I know we do... I feel us. We always kind of shit on the reggae scene on this podcast a little bit. Yeah, we all kind of shit on every... me, but yeah. It's fun to shit on.

What do we normally, what do you, while the reggae scene's listening, what type of questions you want to ask the reggae scene? It's just an interesting counterpoint between like, I don't know, I don't want to get into race. Well, you just said it. Well, you know what I mean? But I think, but like, I don't think the elevators, the elevators aren't one of the people that do the thing I don't like. They don't say job less. Yeah, they're kind of like doing their own thing. I wouldn't even say they're like, Jamaica. Yeah, that's where I start. start to lose me there. You know what I mean?

What's your take, Neil? I like the Nick earlier said, San Diego. Yeah, San Diego Fish Taco. San Diego Fish Taco. I don't think the elevators are one of the bands that do that thing. They don't. Yeah, so they're away, they're apart from us. And also, they're the adjacent reggae.

It's, I, what I can't stand. I don't want to get a race. Yeah, it's, what do they call that? culture vultures. Yeah, there is that in that scene, but there's that in a lot of scenes, to be fair. You know what I mean? No.

Yeah, what about white people playing bebop? No. There's a way to approach it, and they do it right. Why was that bad? I'm saying they're doing it right. You can't judge someone if someone else is doing it. What do you mean? Like, say, are we, like, let's say blues music.

Of course. Do we say white people? our culture of old churing blues music you just there's a specific way to do it yeah that you know what I mean I think elevators are definitely like on the good side of that yeah but there's also a bad way to do it and I think that happens in a lot of scenes

who's the bad who does it the bad way I don't know reggae well enough to really I don't know I don't go to show I really don't know reggae that much maybe my I open for them a couple of times they were kind of was like coffee sweat are used open for them like blink that out

bleep that out yeah um but yeah My old bandies open for them. It was very weird. The vibes were weird. I saw one guy. There was this one band. And they're doing...

And they're doing... Blop, blah, blah! Yeah, that's where you start to lose me. What? We can't... We can't point these bands out. Bleep that out, too. Yeah.

Does that? I don't know. I haven't heard their music. I think that's them, yeah. What about a... Or like, when they say Zion! Yeah. That's crazy.

Like when he's starting getting, okay, that's what I'm saying. Because that's what's different with bebop. There's not like a religion attached to it. Yeah. Or like blues or whatever. And with the reggae, there kind of is. It's like me saying, Jesus. Exactly.

You can't be doing Hillsong big church music. That'd be so funny if you did like a Hill song parody. Like a mega church vibe. Oh, yeah. Or you're coming down like on a harness and shit. You're like, I like to talk about the word Jesus. Yeah, yeah. It's like, you can't have.

I'm going to start making fucking klezmer music. Clesmer saxophon. You killed him and made a gift shop. You killed Jesus Christ and built a gift shop. Hey everybody, it's Nick. You just listened to another great episode, hopefully featuring me of the World Saving Podcast with Andy Frasco. Also produced by him.

He wanted us to say his name twice. It's also produced by Joel Angel Howe and Jack Gold, and it's edited by the very attractive Brian Rout. Please help us save the world by subscribing and rating this show on volume.com, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or whatever drek of a streaming service you're using besides those. Also, follow us on Instagram at World Saving Podcast, so you don't miss any of our amazing reels that we spend hours editing.

For tour dates, merch, and whatever crazy special event Andy thinks of next, check out Andy Frasco.com. There's a lot of penis t-shirts on there. Special thanks to this week's guests, our talent booker Mara Davis, and most importantly you, for spending an entire hour listening to us talk. Be your best, and we'll see you next week for another great episode.