Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - Most Bands Are Playing It Safe and Why Things Feel Soulless with Tom Hamilton

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

Tom Hamilton of Joe Russo's Almost Dead joins Andy Frasco for a wide-ranging conversation about creativity, work ethic, the jam band scene, rock music, songwriting, and what it really takes to build a career in music. From living in a Chevy Lumina and grinding through 200-show tours to selling out Red Rocks with JRAD, Tom shares the highs, lows, and lessons from decades in the music industry. The conversation dives into Joe Russo's Almost Dead, the legacy of the Grateful Dead, the difference between art and content, why some musicians stop taking risks, and how younger bands can bring excitement back to rock and jam music. Tom also opens up about Brothers Past, Ghost Light, songwriting, improvisation, music festivals, Bonnaroo, Dave Matthews Band, and the future of live music. Along the way, Andy and Tom discuss Phish, Geese, Cameron Winter, King Gizzard, grunge, punk rock, creativity, touring, collaboration, and the importance of taking chances both on stage and in life. If you're a fan of jam bands, rock music, guitar players, music podcasts, or behind-the-scenes stories from working musicians, this episode is packed with insight and hilarious moments. Topics include: Joe Russo's Almost Dead (JRAD) Grateful Dead and jam band culture Tom Hamilton's new album Brothers Past and Ghost Light Bonnaroo and touring stories Songwriting vs improvisation Phish and the modern jam scene Geese, Cameron Winter, and the future of rock music Music industry success and failure Creativity, risk-taking, and artistic growth.

Tom, what? Serious X-M? Who hurt you? Who hurt you? Yeah. Who hurt you? You've been eating. I was like, John Mayer!

Tom Hamilton's on this show. Hi, Tom. What's going on? I'm fucking chilling, man. I'm in Philadelphia. Yo, you've been busy, dude. When did you start getting this fucking serious X-M radio show, too? You've always had to.

that? I... No. No, man. No. You know, I did a I did like a guest spot a couple years ago when I started working with this new manager and I got done and he was like, hey man, you're pretty good at that. You know, would you want your own

show if I could get you on? And I was just like, dude, yeah, whatever, man, you know? And then a year later, he was like, hey, remember that radio show you wanted? I got it for you. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? That's fucking. Oh, cool. Another thing. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't take, it doesn't take that much time, does it? I, I like, no, it's easy.

I like talking to people, you know? Yeah, Tommy. A lot of things to talk about here. First off, your new record, congrats. How you feeling about it? Is it coming out good? Thank you, sir. Yeah, man, you know, it's a record.

You know, I, I, I spent a lot of time making it, and then you put it out, and that's it. You know, you get to be proud for 10 minutes. So many move on. My question is, do you get pissed off when people don't care as much as your Grateful Dead cover band? I'm not being condescending. I'm not being condescending. No, of course I. Dude, that's a real question.

Yeah. It's just a fact. You know, the band get, the Russo band blows up. You put out something you've worked on. You put your heart and fucking soul into. Oh, yeah. What goes on your head when the Russo thinks sells out red rocks? Yeah.

And you're out there fucking putting your heart and soul. into this thing. Yeah, man. Here's the thing. I mean, everybody in J-Rad, we all, none of us played covers ever. We all had original music

for 20 years, you know? And then we accidentally do this fucking J-Rad thing and, you know, red rocks. And I mean, so it's like, dude, it's like this for all of us, you know? I mean, Marco puts out records, Joe puts out records, Scott, you know, it's like we all put out albums.

And it's, minuscule compared to the other thing. And, you know, I mean, what are you going to do, man? You know, I honestly, you know, I had, I had a band when this started, which was Ghostlight. Oh, yeah, great band. So I kind of,

thank you. But I made my piece with it then, you know, where it was like, hey, Ghost Lake's playing to 300 people. J. Redd's playing the fucking 15,000. You're like, okay. You know, and the reason why I asked that is about maturity. Like, if younger Tommy,

had that situation happen. Would you would have quit J-Rad versus older Tommy, who is experienced enough in the music industry, to not blow anything up? That's a good thing going for them. No, I mean, well, I probably wouldn't have even, I probably wouldn't have even done the gig when I was younger, you know? You know?

Yeah, I mean, dude, I've turned down like cover band gigs all the time in my 20s, you know? it's just not something I had any interest in, you know. And, you know, and like an idiot, I put it out there years ago. Somebody asked me about something like this, you know? And this was before J-Rad. And I said, I was like,

dude, the only music I would really ever consider playing that wasn't mine would be probably like the dead or something because I have a connection with the music. And it's easy, you know, you improvise. So it's like, you know, you're able to still make it your own, you know. And then probably like, four. Four years later, J-Rat happened. I was like, you motherfucker, I can't believe this is what we're doing.

It's like when the manager got you the radio show. It's kind of the same thing. You got to stop whispering things into existence, bro. Tommy, you're like, yeah, you might be a shaman, dude. What does this change when I'm whispering? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Man, what if I won the lottery?

I'm going to start whispering to be like, Hey, universe, can you get Frasco a bunch of more than fucking on it? After 10 minutes. Yeah. No, it's really fun. But it's a good point, though, Tommy. It's like, they, Don't put anything into fruition that you don't want to actually fucking do.

Because I think life will really give it to you if you just approach something in that, hey, I'm putting it out there that I would do something. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. No, and, you know, I will say this. It's helped, like, the artist part of me a lot. You know, first of all, and, you know, it. It's just reality, you know, not having to live in a constant state of fight or flight, you know, like, how am I going to pay my bills? How am I going to eat? You know, I mean, it's like, dude, I was living in a car fucking 10 years ago or whatever, you know?

It's bad ass. It's badass. I'm sorry. But it's a real deal. I really respect them guys do that. Hold on. Yeah, me and Jewel, you know. Hey, she turned out good for her too. Hey, but Tommy. Yeah, I'm going to get a snaggle tooth. Like, what do you mean living in a car? Like, actual car or like a van? No, like a Chevy Illuminon. Fuck. Hold on.

What? I was... I don't think we've ever... I don't think we've ever... I've really never known your story, Tommy. Let's go over it. Oh, fuck, dude. Are we doing like a journey?

No, just tell me the struggle. I just want the struggle. We know your... We know your stuff. You got a perfect beard now. You're making money. We see it out there. Focus on when you were poor.

Focus on when you were poor, Tommy. Okay, well, we're going to go from birth until I was about 35. How much fucking time you got, man? Let's go. Well, we got 15 minutes less because earlier. We had 15 minutes less because we thought. I'll do it like, I'll do it like Ace Ventura. You know, like, soccer style kicker.

Group of West Philly. No, but I grew up in West Philly. Cool. I grew up in West Philadelphia, you know, shitty neighborhood, doing a thing, didn't have any money. and then decided I was going to be a musician and an artist still didn't have any money

Yeah No, you know I had, I went to I did community college for a semester and a half I failed music theory And intro to piano And I, uh, so I quit and started a band

Um What was the band called? And then, you know, it was called Brothers Past And, um, I remember that band We were like, Oh, okay. Yeah, you know, we were like,

uh, like, second wave of jam bands we were like the last class of wetlands bands you know lake trout and the biscuits and new deal you know just drugs drug bands you know dance beats with guitar solos yeah yeah we we

we were super in on the on the electronic thing early you know um you know like all those bands had their version of it you know like the biscuits was electronic music music with classical like fishy the new deal was like super house or whatever. And BP was like we were

like indie rock. Yeah. Electric electronic music. That was like kind of our vibe. But uh, anyway, yeah, man. You know, did that shit. We toured forever. You know, did the 200 shows a year thing. And then worked our way up to the main stage of Bonarue. And then our drummer quit. Oh my God. Hold on. Hold on. Was Clay Parnell on that band?

Clay Parnell? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Love the porn, man. I love that, dude. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. He's the best man. Tommy. Tommy. Okay. This is making sense. All right. Everything's making sense now.

It's all coming together. So you work so hard, you finally get to the Bonneroo stage. Your band breaks up. The last two shows that we had with that drummer was Boneru and then opening for Dave Matthews. What? Hold on. Why did you break up? Do you guys not like each other or what?

Well, the drummer quit, right? And like he left because his parents wanted him to go to law school. Whoa. Oh no. You're like, motherfucker. We're just opening for Dave. Got the Bonneroo gig. I mean, I mean, bro, it couldn't have been worse timing.

You know, and then our manager at the time, you know, in a panic was just like, he like, he was like, hey, don't worry about it. I found you a drummer. Like, we didn't even like audition people. We just kind of like got a drummer shoved on us who was not the right fit, man. Square peg, you know, round hole sitch. And, you know, we just, we were leaking oil from there. You know, we lasted probably another year. And I was just, I was, I was done with it.

You know, it was like this isn't the thing anymore. You know, the magic isn't there. And my tastes were changing. Were you hard to work with Tommy? Were you hard to work with? Oh, I don't know. Maybe. I have no idea

I mean I don't I don't know I don't I I try not to be you know I mean I I love being a collaborator You know so you know like I don't I don't know Tipping point where he's like saying he won't say Fuck you mom I'm in a band right like I don't know What were like were like were you guys not getting along or Yeah no I mean we were dude we were in a van for four years

You know me like we were we were yeah it was it was four years of kind of getting the shit kicked out of you on the road and then by the time it all started really clicking things were just fractured you know like you know like there were we were starting to have success and you know some some of the guys in the band started getting like egos about that you know and like walking around like they're like swinging dicks You know, and, you know, maybe it's like a self-righteous thing or I don't know. But like I just, that's not where I live, you know. It's like, dude, it doesn't matter that we're doing well right the second.

Like, our job is to keep getting better, you know. I'm still in this Camry, motherfucker. I'm still sleeping the back of this Camry. Everyone's ego needs to be checked right now. This does beg the-to-combeck the question, though, did he finish law school? Or was it all for nothing? Dude, motherfucker finishes law school and then immediately comes back to the band. And it's like, hey, I finished it.

And, yeah. Oh, no fucking way. And it's just like, hey, let's just hop back on it. And it's like, dude, you know, I mean, you guys know how it works. You know, it's like you can't just turn it on and off. You have to work and build it. Yeah, you can't change your name either. Also.

You have the work is the thing. And also fucking, fucking rude, though. Hey guys, I'm ready to go now. I'm like, where you've been four years when we were fucking grinding our teeth? Right, right, right. I want to go back to the drummer, the fucking drummer who's, go, quits the band and says, hey, man, I'm ready now. I don't like that. What'd you feel about that?

It wasn't, it wasn't, I mean, resentful. Yeah, I bet. would be a, you know, yeah, man. I mean, dude, here's the thing, man. I mean, we, you know, we were just touching upon this before we got back to recording. You know, it's like work ethic, man. Like, you know, I didn't have anything. Yeah.

Growing up. And it was like, okay, I'm going to do this to the very best of my ability. And I, and I just, all I want is that same effort from everybody that I, I work with. That's it. That's all I'm asking for. It doesn't have to be anything other than the effort, you know? And, you know, and brothers, and that, and brothers pass was a learning experience there

where it was like, okay, why, why, why were there these rubs, you know, and it was, that's the thing, you know? It's like this guy, you know, the drummer guy was just kind of like, you know, he was very much, like, you know, there's like a stereotypical drummer, like the guy that, like, just is like, checked out completely. just shows up for the gig, doesn't know. Always late has the most gear, but always the latest. Yes, he was like the quintessential that. You know, so yeah, man, I was resentful of that for sure. I would be too, man.

You know, like I was saying, like, you know, it's just when, you know, ego's cool and it's like, it's nice when you start getting to a little bit of success that's really fun, but like, you know, let's not forget why the fuck we're here, you know? Right. And it's work. I mean, it's not all fucking, we're not. Everyone thinks it's drugs, party and stuff. You know how fucking hard is to even make it to a second level of this music industry?

Yeah, man. I wonder if you had started this band later in your life and you finally got the Bonner and stuff, how you would approach the drummer thing then, like an older in your life. Well, I mean, I've been, I still deal with the same bullshit, you know. Bands are bands, you know. So it's like, you know, there's always, you know, I mean, it's just reality, you know? I mean, you know, the next like real, like real band I had was Ghostlight, you know? And, you know, same type of stuff kind of just creeps in where it's like, you know, not everybody's pulling the rope.

Yeah. You know, with the same veracity or direction, you know. And, you know, it, that's not a way for a group. to work, you know? Yeah, I agree. And that's why I always had a hard time calling in a band name because I know I was going to work the hardest. And if one band member breaks up, I feel like I've got to change the whole fucking band name.

Dude, so this has been the bane of my existence. You know, I feel the exact same way, except that I never wanted to use my name. You know, like I don't have the self-confidence, you know, to use my own name. I know obviously I have a 20 year career of not using it. You know, but and I and I didn't mind, you know, it was like that was like the thing. It was like, hey, look, I'm okay doing all of the work and not getting my name on the thing. You know, like, I'm okay with that. But as long as as the, the, what we're doing is fucking good, you know, and that you guys give me some effort, you know, like that's, that's all I'm looking for is just some fucking.

effort, you know. Yeah, intention. It's all of, I mean, like you said it, you said at the beginning, it's about intention. If we can't give intention, why are we doing it? Yes. Yes. You're just making content or you're, you know, you mean, like, it's, and dude, and there's a place for people that,

you know, like, I'm not judging people for doing that shit, but like, that we're just not operating in the same lane, you know? Yeah. I mean, it's a difference between make and music. your hobby and making it your life. Yeah, man. Or, I mean, or between making content and making art, you know? Yeah.

Like, you know, like cranking out a fucking record just to crank out a record, you know, so you have something to sell at the merch table. But like, what it is is, you know, just, you know, mindless. It's like, well, okay, you know, why are we doing it? You know, it's just like, it's like AI. That's a good point. If you're going to do that, just sell cars. Yeah, man. Well, you know, and like in our scene...

You're nail on something on the head here, Tommy. Well, you know, like in our scene where it's like, it kind of... There was a permission given at some point where it was... It's okay to write a furroweigh song just as like a jam vehicle, you know? And then... Mm-hmm. You know, and then it just kind of went from there where it's like, oh, well, you know, well, that's easier than trying to write...

a real masterpiece of human experience. So I'm just going to write some fucking bullshit thing and just make it so we can jam over it, you know? That's what I never understood when, like, the bands are pulling out their C songs on night three. You know, or like they're D songs because they haven't played them since fucking 98.

I'm like, yo, it's not a good song. Why are you playing it? Weirdly, the fans do kind of get off on that. They do. But is it because they just want to, tell me about, you're my insider in this shit. Give me the details, Tommy. I mean, I can't tell you the psychology on that crap, because I don't do that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But even like the dead, like, dead covers, like, you have to pull out some, like, fucking really deep ones, right? Yeah, but that shit was more for, like, us just not getting bored. Okay, cool. You know? Okay. What you, because it's like, the dead catalog is fucking finite, you know, like, there's not going to be any new songs. So, you know, it's like, we're a bunch of improvisers that are like, okay, well, we've done Uncle John's band five thousand times. What else can we do?

Let's do Blackwater River tonight. Yeah, so, you know, so you just start digging, digging a little bit deeper trying to find some other stuff, you know. And then fortunately for us, it's like, you know, Joe, Joe did these gigs with the Allman Brothers last year. so like now we're just kind of like oh yeah we'll take a bunch of those now you know and now we play a bunch of that the almonds tunes or whatever fucking old you know it's just kind of like

whatever whatever Joe puts his finger on he's just like oh we're gonna play that now you know he like did something with like the guy from his easy top and it's like okay we're gonna play a bunch of zizi top shit I mean it's almost dead so you could kind of do whatever the fuck you want I do like that name pretty brilliant

that's the whole but go back to this like why band why do you think bands are playing like like their bad songs. Like the songs because of fish. Because of fish. There it is.

Because of fish. Okay. So, you know, like at some point, you know, like they gave, you know,

they, they set the rules for the thing in, in a certain way. Yeah. That everybody kind of adheres to, you know, where it's like,

okay, hey, we can write songs that are just vehicles for the jam. We can use, we can culturally appropriate any kind of music we want and do like a half-ass version of it to jam over

or you know and it's like and then doing it is fine because that's their thing you know like okay but then people looked at that and they're just like okay it's a buffet of ideas

we're just going to take the easiest parts of it you know it's like well hey man if you're going to sound just like fish why not right fucking fluffhead instead of you know big boat or wherever to fuck yeah right also you don't have tray on guitar also you don't

no and it's not just tray dude that entire fucking band they're all yeah yeah they're rippers it's four virtuosos you know like it's not yeah it's not one guy so would you consider a jam would you consider a jam content

or art huh fuck I think it's the same qualification right? It's intention. Right. So, you know, I, you know, I don't know. I mean, that's where it starts being gray, right?

So like, because I think of jam band. Yeah, go first, Tom. Hold on a second. I just got to close this door. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I think it just depends on the game, kind of. Kind of. Then why make a record? Just like make the jam. Well, one thing is a statement, right?

I mean, you know, dude, Andy, you're a fucking songwriter. Yeah. You know, like, yeah, I look at it like making albums, like, when you're really trying to make art, you know, like we're trying to make something that is, you know, a reflection of the human condition, you know, a way for, to help people get through this fucking nightmare that we live in. every second of the day. Right? It's something to help yourself by making it and to help other people, hopefully, when they listen to it.

You know, the jam is the opposite in that it's so much in the moment, right? Right. We're all experiencing something right now. And, you know, there's a different kind of beauty to that. I think, you know. So maybe you need to make the content to get to the art in the jam scene. Because if the art is the fucking spreading the songs out, bro, and fucking, blah. You had to get to like the piece of it.

And maybe the piece of it is the content to grow into the art for the jam scene, per se. Versus a songwriter scene. Yeah, but. Well, it's music, right? It's just songs, you know, like is the whole thing. I mean, you know, this whole thing starts with the Grateful Dead, though, you know, right? And those are songs.

Those guys, yeah, they didn't fuck around, man. Yeah. Those songs, their whole career, you know, I mean, there's a, there's some shit where, like, clearly they're all on fucking drugs and, like, you know, making cokey decisions in the 70s. But, like, overall, it's about the fucking song, man. It's about the lyric and it's about the, the, the craft, you know? And then you take that and expand upon that with the jam and all that stuff.

You know, like there's a, there's a human starting point to it, you know. And I think that it's like, I don't know, man, doesn't it, doesn't it bother you at all when people are like, oh, hey, you know, like, they dismiss the jam thing, like, immediately because, or, you know, they might dismiss you just because you're lumped into the jam scene. Yeah. And it's like, well, no, no, no, no, I'm not writing. I'm not writing mindless fucking you know I'm not writing

that's not what you're writing you're right like you're right lyrics you're fucking out yeah man you're doing the thing and you're out there doing the shit

and it's like yeah don't don't just assume because I like to improvise I write fucking you know I write content like that's not

you know yeah and I've listened to your record dude your record is heavy dude those lyrics are fucking heavy I mean, yeah, man, life's heavy. That's what I'm saying. So when did it, when did, like, the current start changing into, it wasn't about the song, it was about the jam?

What do you mean, generally in the scene? Just generally in the scene. Like, if it was like, Grateful Dead started it, there's some good fish songs, I think. I don't know, but, like, when did it just all be all about, people were worried about that version of the song? Or was it always like? that. I think it was always, it was always like that. But when with the dead, it was you're taking these masterclasses in songwriting and then you're expounding upon you. Yeah. You know, you're, you're, you know, like, you're, you know, like these are, it's art and it's living art. The whole thing's

fucking art. You know what I mean? Like these songs are living organisms and, you know, yada, yada yada. And then at some point in the early 2000s, you know, when everybody just started grabbing off of what fish was doing, it kind of like watered it down a bunch, you know? I, you know, in my opinion, you know. Well, is that any code for saturation? It's like a... So we're kind of just blaming fish's hiatus for all this, actually. Chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, just to sum it up. But, you know, but it's like, dude, it's capitalism, right?

It's like you take something that's cool and then you're just going to, you're going to ring it out until anything that has to do with human connections gone and everything has to do with making money off of it is left. And, you know, and, you know, is what it's why less and less people are going to jam festivals because they squeezed every lemon out or every drop out of it? I think it's a combination. I think our economy fucking sucks. And I don't think a lot of people, you know, the people that were making money. you know, doing, you know, people that were on tour and making money in the lot, you know, nobody has money to buy fucking, you know,

a statue of tray made out of pasta that you went to the fucking parking lot or whatever. You know, it's like the extra money's not there, I don't think, and, you know, so like that. But also, there is something to, possibly, that, you know, the art in itself is, is, it's getting a little, it's a little beige

it's a little bit of a beige paste you know there's no real identity on it you know there's no real um you know there's there's I mean there's nobody in this scene that's fucking you know of the more popular

bands that are like really doing something unique enough to grab culture by the short and curleys and be like yo pay attention us yeah like show what's going on you know I mean well that's what I dude I think we should

be fucking, like, King Giz, that's a fucking jam band, man, and we should be, as a scene, grabbing them with two fucking hands, and be like, yeah, yeah, that's with us. Those guys are with us. They represent us. And I think that'll give us a lot more. It's more like metal. I mean, we're trying, you know?

What is it? Why does no one want to, like, everyone, even like the goose of the world, they don't want to be associated as a jam band. And none of these bands, everyone, there's like this taint. That's ironic. My morning jacket. I mean, they're a jam band. A lot of these bands, I don't know.

It's kind of, do you understand that? It's because of that stigma. Yeah, there's that stigma where people are like, oh, Jam Band, this is going to be some mindless bullshit where it's a song about fucking, you know, geodes and sacred geometry. It's like, well, no, man, that's just like, you know, I mean, but that's what happens when for the last, you know, X amount of time, the bands that the scene brought to the top are either cover band.

You know, it's like, dude, Gay-rad is huge. And we're a fucking cover band, man. And we all, and dude, and we all are very, like, no one has, I mean, dude, of course, but it's like, you know, we're taking some, we're playing that music in probably the most original way it's been presented ever, besides the original, you know, intention. And then you have these other bands that, like, say their original music, but it just sounds like, fish with different lyrics

or like whatever and you're like well you say you're original but you sound just like these fucking guys and then you know we're a cover band but we sound original it's like well that doesn't even make any fucking sense

we need to kind of like I've been saying this yeah can we take the cartridge out blow in it and put it back in for a second and wiggle it back and forth you know all that stuff have you ever had an experience of one of the Grateful Dead members

where they hug you and then they whisper in your ear saying enjoy that fucking house you piece of shit I want 10% bitch Hey Tom You're such a great dude Enjoy that fucking house

You fucking dumb piece of shit Okay You'll be hearing from Mickey Hart's lawyer You'll be hearing from Mickey Hart's lawyer We know the hell's angels I mean honestly man I know you're from Philly At the beginning of it

Yeah What were you saying Tom Sorry we start At the beginning of it We definitely were like At any moment These guys are gonna fucking just kick us the balls, right?

Like, you know, and we would have deserved it, you know, I mean, like, I always, like, you know, every time I see weird, I always expect them to just, like, shove me in a locker,

you know, just be like, fucking, hey, man. But did you have that moment with them and what they say? Yeah, of course. I, you know,

I would, I honestly, I said pretty much exactly what, what you said, like, hey, sorry about the, you know, grabbing all your shit at the finish line here,

you know, and, and I, dude, I love the finish line. I fucking love you, Tommy. You're hilarious, dude. But, dude, to a man, every, every, you know, I've been very fortunate to have played with all four of the remaining members of the Grateful Dead.

And all four of them in their own way said the same thing of like, you know, listen, I've, I've heard what you guys are doing. And, you know, and we appreciate it, you know, like we, they all appreciated that we were not trying to sound like the Great. Redful Dead at all, you know, and, you know, when you get a greenlight like that from those dudes, yeah, well, the fucking governor's off, man, we're just hit the fucking guess, let's just go, you know? Yeah, were you ever like kind of like, you see those guys, like, hey man, we good? We good? Like the first time seeing him, like, we good? We go, we go? Of course. Like, yeah. Yeah, Phil Lesh flashes a gun at you. I kind of have a question about this.

Actually, it's the point you brought up about how you guys are doing it, like the Grateful Dead thing differently, which I really appreciate. But I feel like you get a lot of pushback from, like, you know, traditionalist Grateful Dead fans. Does that bother you? Or you just kind of like chalk it up as they're helping you pay the bills too? Well, I mean, dude, we are aware of what we're, you know,

that it's not the other thing, you know? And that's okay. Like, there's plenty of bands that they can, most, most bands. that play that music are like doing the you know the Civil War reenactment of it.

Exactly. You know, like they're fucking I want to put it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the guitar player

fucking got type two diabetes you know, like they're fucking short shorts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like Daniel Day Lewis.

Wow. Hold on. Jesus fucking Christ. Jesus fucking Christ. Hey, Drywitz,

we got to have talk. Exactly. Like, you said you're, you're, you're into indie rock. How'd you get into this scene? Like, you're talking like you're a rocker, dude. How'd you get, how'd you get wrangled into this thing? I grew up as a deadhead. Oh, okay. Um, my, my dad, my dad was like, uh, my dad was a biker deadhead. He wasn't a hippie deadhead. Um, my old man, my old man looked like he was like a roadie for the Allman brothers. He was all inked up and like, you know, and, uh, when did he pass? So I got, Yeah, he passed away a couple years ago, which is a lot of the new record,

you know, that's all kind of tied in, you know, with all that stuff. But anyway, you know, so I was raised on that stuff and, and, you know,

the dead and the almonds and just, you know, classic rock or whatever. And when I started Brothers Pass, we all kind of collectively got together. You know, I'm like, we're like 19,

between like 19 and 22 at this point. We made a very conscious decision to like, hey, no more listening to that shit. That's it. We're not allowed to listen to any, any Grateful Dead or almonds or fish or any of that stuff. It's like we need to expand our palate

and bring in some new information into our lives as artists, you know? And that's when I really kind of started like super duper widening, you know, the net of like getting into like getting really into electronic music. And, you know, fucking indie rock was coming up huge in the early 2000s, you know, fucking Sufjohn Stevens and AirPole and, you know, like all that stuff. But also it's like, dude, we're, you know,

we're probably all close to the same age. I mean, like all the grun shit in the 90s. Like, that was my shit. I love that. You know, Allison Chains and Soundgarden. Dude, I hear that. You know, I hear that. Thanks.

I appreciate that. Well, like, you know, when we hung out and I finally had the balls of text, Tom Hamilton, to come sit in with my band, you're like, yeah, you could have just called me. You could have called me earlier. And then I'm like, You're fucking right.

Dude, that was so fucking fun, by the way, man. That was a blast, dude. I'm just saying you texting the wrong guy in the comedian. What if I text up to Tom McImere? The play guitar. Take it away. He's like, oh, what's the deal with airplane food? Yeah.

Hey, what's the deal with King of Prussia? Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I hear the grunge. I hear, like, the noise. You are really, you love noise. Like, I don't know how to explain. I'm not a guitar play. Does that make sense?

Yeah, man. I like the sandpaper. Yes. I want to... You're the best at it. I mean, you know, that could go either way as a good thing or a bad thing. But yeah, man, I just like... It's that thing of, like, I want emotion to play a role in what we're doing, you know?

And if that requires, whatever that requires, you know? It's like I want to do it by poking you in the in the eye and I want to do it by hugging you really tight. And I want to do it. You know, like, however, you know, the guitar can be so many different things. Why just play the same blues riffs that some asshole wrote 60 years ago? Like that doesn't make any fucking sense to me. Preach. You know, like I don't want you to.

That's not growing, growing the instrument. They want you to fucking be weird and be explorative. I mean. Let's be creative. Let's be fucking creative. job is to be creative. Yeah. Or even do the old thing just really well instead of not that good.

I fucking saw fucking Paul Anka this week. I know this is so funny. 85 years old. He wrote my way. I went to, I took my friend. I know who Paul Anka is. Yeah. Me and Todd Glass from Philly.

You know Todd Glass? I do not. He's a comedian out of Philadelphia. And he's like, and you have to watch this just to show. Give you inspiration that you could still be a great entertainment. or at 85 because he wrote my way he wrote Bobby Darren's songs he's running songs for everybody that motherfucker was so tight and so good and it was so

inspiring to see grand I was on a shit ton of mushroom so he he was just glowing his tan is no that's real yeah yeah but I what I mushrooms in Paul Anka I was the youngest guy there I was like a piece of meat to these 80 year old Cougar women it was fucking awesome but hey there sonny you're in the Navy or something Yeah, yeah, right. But the Paul, you know, the 85 of, like Nick said, if you, he started the crooner thing. If you're going to do it, do it fucking great. And like I saw videos of him yelling at his band being tighter, being on his tight. Be great at it. And if you want to explore, explore. But there's no other crooner that went from Paul Anka, Frank Sinatra. Who can you tell? Who can you say now that did the crooner thing, but did it in a different way?

Bubele maybe a little. I can answer that. Who? Well, I think there's a lineage of crooners. You know, and I would say the first people after Sinatra and Paul Anka, Jim Morrison. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one.

Jim Morrison was a crooner. That's what he was. He was doing his best Sinatra on acid. You know, and then from there, it's, you know, it's Billy Idol. it's Nick Cave You know Like these guys So the art of the front man

Is a crooner But I think he's talking about Their actual voice quality too Well yeah That's what I'm saying Like a lot of baritone Oh yeah Like Chris Cornell

Kind of has that Like I was saying Well Cornell had it But he also had fucking Four octaves Yeah yeah He had everything ever So it's like

You know That guy was A fucking freak of nature man You know But the guy from the screen streaming trees, Mark Lanigan. Dude, if you are ever looking for, like, new music that you haven't heard that, like, is going to inspire you in a way artistically, dude, I could not recommend diving into Mark Lanigan's solo catalog.

Lyrically, I feel like he's like an American Nick Cave. It's very, it's very verbose and dark and beautiful. And musically, it fucking goes everywhere, man. He has records that are, like, electronic music. It was records that are just like pure acoustic He made a couple records with the With the chick from Bell and Sebastian

So it's like really like Soft and and Yeah I don't know It's just it's great stuff man I feel like it's very It's very inspiring I found it to be very inspired Do you think Cameron Winter is like a crooner

With the baritone voice Yes exactly That's a great great example Where are you at on geese I like it I think it's fine. I'm not super sold. It was cool.

We interviewed him. We interviewed camera. Really down to earth, actually. It was cool. Pretty funny, actually. Yeah. But what, what's your take on?

What do you got? What do you got? Oh, I mean, you know, I'm crossing my fingers that this is the never mind moment of rock and roll. Yeah. Of, yeah, of this, you know, of just where we are. I think that record is, I think that record is. I think that record is shockingly fucking smart, man.

And beautiful. And being 24 years old. I'm sorry? The man is 24 years old. I know. I love it. I love it, man. I really hope it's a nevermind moment too.

I hope we bring, because I've been like really getting into like all these like cool punk bands right now. Like Haywire. I've been loving haywire. This band called Piss. Fucking rules. I'm in now.

I'm down. I'm back to my old fucking vans warped tour fucking people, no barricade, people jumping on stage, jumping off it. That's my shit right now. Yeah, but I really do enjoy heavier shit, man. You check out idols at all. Yeah, yeah. Love idols.

Yeah, it's like, foo. Yeah, um, turn style. Yeah, man, I think that, I, I'm not as into it. It's a little too polished to be like, it's like, it's punk with like, back, backing tracks, you know what I'm like, eh, I'm okay. Yeah. You know, but dude, but back to the geese thing, it's like, you know, dude, that record is, you know, there's no song structure like that.

You know, what other, what other, who else writes songs that are like, that are structured the way those fucking kids are writing? No one, man. It's like, it's almost like, it's like kid A, you know, where you're like, these guys might have, might have cracked a code here of like a new. way to do something that has been fucking you know begging for a new

way to do it you know and I hear death tones too a little bit I don't know for some reason yeah yes sure man you know I mean like it because there's a heaviness to it that's like yeah the art of just like it's I hear it's just it's it's what fucking rock and roll was man it didn't rocker was wasn't supposed to be polished We over-polished fucking rock and roll And this is what's happening

It's now, yeah, Aero Smith I just think they're kind of polished and corny I don't know What's your take on? No, but dude that's a good point Erasmith so like think about when we were kids In like the late 80s, early 90s Rock music had turned into

This beige paste of hair metal Where it was just like a bunch of people That took This is exactly what I was talking about With fish and the jam scene, right? Instead of fish, Think of Led Zeppelin, right? You took over the course of 10, you know, 20 years,

culturally, they took all of the good shit out of Led Zeppelin and all they left you was like moose in your hair and songs about your dick and like blues riffs. You know what I mean? And it was like, what the fuck? This is the most just like vapid, terrible music. Yeah, man. And like, and like, and then all of a sudden,

You had these dickheads from Seattle that were just like, hey, you know what? Fuck that, dude. You can still make heavy-ass music and still say something and still feel something and still be a feminist and still stand up for gay kids and still do. And you know what I mean? Like you can still play that kind of music, that heavy-ass shit. But it can mean something. It can mean something more than I'm trying to pay my mortgage. And I feel like that's what Nevermind did then.

and I feel like where we are now, especially in the jam scene, where it is that huge beige paste of like fucking people are using auto tune now? What the fuck are we even doing? I know, it's crazy. You know what I mean? And then you have the answer to all that is geese. Yep. And that's what I hope that there are 16 to 19 year old kids right now hearing that record and being like, holy shit, let's. start a fucking band and fuck a computer and fuck our parents and fuck whatever you know what

mean like get some attitude back you know like instead of having music that's like I'm going to go see this band with my parents like dude that's not fucking rock and roll it's not rock and roll if you know what I mean if it's like well my dad's my best friend and we're going to microdose and go see this fucking lame ass band like no dude we need some shit that makes you want to punch somebody in the fucking face and like something you have to hide from your parents you know what under the bed, you know? Yeah. Yes.

Something that when your parents hear it, they go, what the fuck is that? You're grounded. You know? Like the first, yeah, man. Dude, the first time I played like fluffhead for my parents, they were, and my parents were relatively fucking hip. They were just like, what the fuck is that? And that's when I knew I was on to something, you know?

Like, it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, fuck them, you know? Like, we got to get that back, you know? We got that. And I think geese, I think geese can be that, but it's, it's, it's, it can be that, but, it's hopefully I think that thing that to start that process again. Joe Roots with almost anchored. Tom fucking Hamilton. That's what I'm talking about.

We need more fucking balls in this scene. Right. And then, you know, and then it's like, well, you know, I try to, I try to do that with my own shit. You know, like he said, you know, it's a heavy record. It's like, bro. Yeah, but like I'm old, man. So I can't be the guy. Yeah.

I can't be the one leading the fucking charge. You know, it's like these younger bands that are coming up. Like, you know, you got to make a choice, man. Are you trying, are you making shit because you want to be famous and you want likes and clicks and whatever? Or are you making shit because you have a primal wizard brain urge and need to create and say something and connect with people, you know? I mean, that's what I'm saying. No fat. No fat on this shit.

Let's fucking. Yeah. Sorry, I'm getting on a soapbox. I don't mean to sound like an answer. We need, we just two chop dunks talking about. That's what people are calling me, chopped on the kids. I think Tom Hamilton and I should become the czars of the jam band scene. And we should decide if you get to be a jam band or not.

Yeah, it's like, what is it? Because we agree 100%. Communist Russia. Yeah, yeah. But it's communist. You must be this tall to ride this ride. Exactly. No songs about being in a band.

You're totally fucking right, man. There's, we're at this point in the scene where we're not taking chances. We're just doing things that are safe. Festivals are doing that. Everyone's doing things that are safe. And I honestly, I think that's, I think that is why J-RAD resonated with people so much.

Yeah. Because we, when we came out, we, you know, I mean, it was like five Tasmanian devils on stage, just ripping the fucking thing apart. and it was musically you know it was very unsafe no one knew

what the fuck was going to happen including us and it was you know the reason people came to started coming to jam band shows was the high wire act right

I mean you are a fucking obviously a living high wire act Andy but like you know musically right it was part of it too where it was like

people went to see the dead take chances and went to see fish take chances and and if they fuck it all it ties together with what I was saying earlier it it's about if you're giving it the effort you don't even have to stick the landing you don't have to marry Lourette in every fucking landing but if you're trying you're gonna you're gonna get the you get the reward for from

from the audience you know it's like going for it but you know when you're when you're sitting there with everybody's on in your monitors and they all have microphones to talk to each other to tell each other what to do it's like dude that's not improvising and that's not taking chances and that's not you're not doing the thing you're not honoring your part of the fucking contract there's a kid sitting in the back of the room that

that took a fucking like insane amount of drugs that he doesn't even know what they probably are right he took a chance he wants you to take the fucking chance too man like you know yeah it breaks to my heart when I see some of these young kid bands more worried about what their in-ear system looks like instead of what they're fucking oh my god

I want to fucking shake them. Idiots. I want to shake them. Yeah, dude. It's insane to me. It's okay to fail. It actually sounds pretty cool sometimes. Yes.

Well, and that's the thing. Or like the happy accidents that can happen. You know, I heard a great interview with Trey or maybe was Mike. I don't know, one of those guys talking about how like, you know, if you're in a jam, he's like, you know, the problem with like canceling a jam if it's not clicking is that like sometimes. it takes five minutes to get to the thing that you you could only get there

by treading water for five minutes and then they got there and something incredible happened you know it's like you know again fucking take the chance have dynamics you know but instead it's like

you know people just immediately go for the finish of it you know and it's like hey man have some you know I mean forgive the fucking you know example but it's like have some foreplay

man Let their wet things simmer and, you know, yeah, take some chances. Get to know each other, you and the audience, you know, light a candle. Yeah, light a candle. Have sex with a rubber that has a hole in it. Don't do that. Have sex for the rubber you found on the floor. Put a finger in the butt.

Yeah, explore. Put a finger in the butt. No, but I get what you're saying, Tom. It's, isn't that the reason why we play on Tuesday? days and not just weekends. It's the reason why we played 200 shows and not 50 is to fucking fall.

Exactly, man. You learn more about yourself and each other, you know, the audience and the band. You know? I love, I mean, dude, Tom, you fucking rule. Every time I talk to you, Tom, you're smart. You fucking rule.

Smart for a guy from Philadelphia. Not bad for a guy from Philly. I appreciate that. No, Tom, it's so. I hope. I appreciate that. This is the reason why we're in art. So we can fail and get back up.

A lot of other jobs you can't do that in. If you fail, you get fired. This job is at least if you fuck up, you could always have another redemption tour. Unless. The thing is, is that is to take the fucking swing, though, at least, you know? That's what I'm proud of. I think that's rock and roll.

Is to take the swing. People aren't even swinging. I agree, man. Because they don't want to talk. It's like the same being with all these fucking, a lot of these bands, don't take a stand on shit. And they just stay in the middle because half their fans are one side and half their fans are the other side.

And I've never. Yeah. And I think this is why people are scared of us, Tom, because we take a fucking stand. We point, we let people know when there's something wrong with the industry. And call it like, oh, we're just being judgy, but we're not. We're just telling our opinion on it. whole thing is kind of mirrored throughout culture right now too like the instant gratification thing

just all that stuff movies yeah it's bullshit yeah man you just got to you know it's like i just care it's like i just care that is is just what it comes down to and and caring about something that's not just yourself you know i mean which you know is a cultural thing right it's you have a lot of like the you know the more conservative type of people where nothing bothers them until affects them directly um whereas in the other side i think or are just people that base their decisions more in empathy. And that's how I

look at our scene. Like, I care for all of us, you know? You know, I think there are brilliant people in it, and I just want to see the cream rise to the top a little bit more. Instead of being the fucking punchline to a joke,

you know, dude, we're really one of the only scenes in the music industry. We don't have any representation at the Grammys for any of that type of shit. No. Like, Jam of the year. Why isn't there a live album of the year? Yeah, that's a good point, actually. That's a slam dunk for us, you know?

I've always said jam band chel. Or just fucking... Or jam band record of the year, and maybe that will make it so people start making better records and writing better songs. True. I always thought like, you know, why can't, why are you pushing a record? If you're a jam band, you make a new record and you only can play the new songs like once every 10 days.

Yeah. Like, why are you making a new record if all you could do is play, because you're so worried about not repeating songs, you don't get to play the songs that you love? That's not all the band's fault either. That's kind of like that culture was created by the fans. Well, I will say this. One of the things that I used to share a studio at the disco biscuits back in the day,

back in when I was living in a car. See how the place. yourself a lot. You had the place. Dude, Nick? I got a clap to you. That was pretty good. Pretty good.

Pretty good, Nick. Good way to split, but so, you know, it was at the time where I was living, it was like I was either staying on Rousseau's couch in Brooklyn, in my Chevy Luminah, or on the couch at the studio

that the biscuits had, right? Um, but I would sit there and I would listen to, to, you know, I want name names of who, but, you know, certain people in a band, basing all of their decisions on what the fans want. Artistic decisions, you know? Like, it's like, you know, like, I produced a couple records for them, right?

So, like, I'm in there trying to help them write songs and do this thing. And I'm like, okay, hey, we should do this. And, you know, what about this idea or whatever? It's like, oh, well, our fans won't like that. And it's like, what? What are we fucking doing here, man? You know, if that's what we're talking about, then the Beatles would have never made Sergeant Pepper.

Shut the fuck up and make, don't let that be a consideration, you know. Like, you know, the tails wagging the dog a lot of the time here where, you know, that's what the artists are worried about, you know, it's like, you know, I don't know Trey Anastasia, so I can't hypothesize on what Fish's creative decisions are like, but, you know, they don't sound like they're trying to, you know, break over. open a new road, you know, and that goes with most of the bands that are big in our scene. It's like, well, you know, don't worry about your fans. Are you a fucking artist or are you a monkey playing for these fucking people?

Yes! You know? This probably happens in every genre, too. It happens in anything in life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course. Any product. It's the capitalism thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's any product. Like, you know, like, shampoo. I'm starting a hydration company, try not to die, hydration. I'm starting a competing reverse hydration company called die. It's just poison, it's just cyanide. It's salt, just salt.

But, you know, well, it's the idea of keeping the thing going. So you're, it's, we have to just convince people that you don't have to do what you did last time. You can keep exploring. Like, that's why I stopped testing out these songs live before I record them. I'm like, I'm going to record them without any bias. I don't need to hear. if you guys like the verse or if you guys like the chorus

because I like that philosophy too because it's two different things. It's two different things. I mean, it's like you make an art for them or you're making art for yourself. Hopefully as an artist, they love you because they love you because you're making art for yourself

and hopefully you guys have the same interests in how you approach art. Yeah, there's also like songs on an album that aren't as good live and the other way around. Am I right, Tom? Yeah, yeah. I mean, dude, yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, Yeah, man, we are

We are like two dubs cooing right now, brother I could not agree with you more Come on howl with me, guys, let's all howl together. Dubs howling. Dubs? It's a rare wolf It's a rare wolf dove from Calabasas. Tom, I could talk to you for, I think we need to have him be one of the

World Saving ambassadors, and we have him on. Correspondent. I like correspondent. You want to be at one of our correspondence of what's going on in the scene? I would love to be. You're a reporter in the field. Come on. Tell us what's going on in Grateful Deadland. Yeah.

I'm so curious about that. So do you get to talk a lot or you just get to play songs? What do you mean? Do you have to interview people and stuff or do you just talk or do you? Oh, on my show? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's an interview show.

Yeah. You know, it's based around every, you know, it's an interview every month. The, what I've done, Don was. I did Bruce Hornsby. I saw that. Margo Price. And then this one, the next one that comes up in May is, which airs, I think at the end of this week, is Graham Lesh. Great.

Phil Sun. Monthly. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's easy. Month is easy. Yeah, man. It's a real easy lift, man.

You know, one day a month, I go up to New York and I record, you know, I record the interview and do the whole thing. So it's not live, man. It's awesome. Dude, it's killer. No. Oh, cool. That's good. Well, buddy, I wish you...

They broadcast it for like a whole week, you know. Oh, I get it. I get it. It's like my dream job. Yeah, that's my dream job. Not having to have my face on something? But, but I wish you all the best. You're the man. I feel like we became real close friends in Philly.

I know we didn't really talk about the album, but this ain't the last time we're talking about this. This is just the introduction of Tom Hamilton on the show a bunch. I'm sure we'll do more, but I'm your vampire. Go buy it. It's a good album. Yeah, don't stream it, buy it. Yeah, fucking buy it.

Support Tom Hamilton. Buy too. Get one to a friend. Yeah. In case you want to listen to it more than once. Yeah, yeah. No, man, dude, I appreciate you having me, Andy. Dude, you're the fucking man, Tom, and I love, you know, we're dogs.

I got your back. We're homies. Yeah, man, dude, you know, when I really appreciated when we met, it definitely felt like it was like, it was like, okay, man, we are clearly two animals from the same pack, and, you know, and I really do appreciate you and our new friendship. difference. It's very nice. We're in this together. I do want to talk about the death of your your dad. Can we talk about it? Okay. Sure. Just, it's before we leave, because I need to it's a lot. Do you want to talk about 9-11 and Gaza after? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to talk about

Palestine and Iran a little bit. Welcome into one thing. No, but your dad was very important to you. So, like, I was like, all I want to ask is like, how did you deal with grief? Uh, I haven't yet. You just been working and just, you've been holding it in? Yeah, man. You know, it's, uh, you know, he got sick and it was, you know, it was like four years or four years plus of, from the time that he got it to, you know, the end there. And, you know, the last two years, uh, you know, was 24-7 anxiety of. you know,

getting the call. Ugh. Uh, uh, and, and I think I did, I think I did a lot of like, uh,

because I just, I have terrible anxiety issues. Um, so I think I did a lot of like mental gymnastics of, putting myself through it before it even happened, you know, um,

and then when it did and, you know, you know, I, you know, you know, uh, it was the worst.

experience, it was the worst thing I've ever experienced my life. I sat there and I watched him, you know, fucking die. I watched him take his last breath. I watched him suffer in an unbelievable pain for three days before he actually went. And, uh, it's fucking horrible, man. You know, the slow death thing is so, you know, it's fucking crazy, man. It's fucking crazy. And it'll, it'll change it, you know, uh, and, you know, and I, the last song on the record, uh, is, is, you know, it's called, you know, it's been a long time coming. And, you know, the last conversation I had with my old man, he was, it was, like, right before he was not able to talk.

And, you know, but he was still pretty doped up, you know, and, and the way, you know, the way, I recorded it, which is, yeah, I don't know if I'm ever going to listen to it, but, well, I'm glad you did, because when you're ready to cope, he was just like, hey, man. Yeah, he was just like, you know, write a song, man, you know, Like that's what you're good at. Go do that. And so I did. And that's what closes the record.

Will? Next call is Joe Rousseau saying, I fucking quit. I'm going to write my own songs, Joe Rousseau. I fucking quit. My dad told me. But I can still do that 10-day run. But I'll still do that 10-day run. I do have a mortgage.

I do have a mortgage. Yeah. No, I hear you, man. My mom's fighting cancer. She's been fighting it for a long time. And it's good and it's bad. I'm sorry, man. Good and bad.

It's a world win. It's an interesting roller coaster. Yeah. Think about how I want to die. And it's, and like if it's quick, you know, hey man. Think of that every day. You know, it's a part of life, you know? It's like if we're lucky, we live to see our parents go, you know?

That's a good point. It's just, you know. Yeah, that's true. You know, it's like I don't have like a woe with me attitude towards it. It's like we're all going to have to fucking get there sometime. Yeah. Some of us earlier than others and some of us later, you know, it is what it is, you know. And then I think about life too of like how I need to double down on being exactly who I am

and not settling or being someone else. I mean, I'm never, I mean, why, why get popular? If you're not, if I'm gonna get popular for my art, it's because it was exactly how I wanted it. Not me chasing the rabbit's tail,

not me fucking changing any piece of myself. It's, I followed my gut on everything in art. And if it happens, fuck yeah. But if it doesn't, fuck yeah, because I fucking tried.

brother that is that's exactly it man thank you so much for saying that shit that's it you keep fighting man you're the fucking man too one more question our producer fro has one last question for you he always asked the last question of the tour

of the tour okay what do you got there fro here he is Neil say hi to our producer Neil Tom McNamara how you doing your producer your producer happens Your producer also happens to be a fucking incredible drummer. Oh, thanks, Bell.

This was a good one I thought of the other day because I have a crazy wallet. What's in your wallet? You got like a bunch of weird shit in there and like old business cards, old hotel keys. That's like classic, but like, you know, tabs of acid, receipts, drink tickets from a gig 14 years ago. I just said what's in my wallet. I Here

I don't carry a wallet Because it fucked up my back I carry just I'm raw dog Raw dog Oh my Holy shit I just

Fucking fucking raw dog it dude I have a bag of picks Okay Hold on A bag of picks And then And then just Tom this is psychotic

This is a little psychotic You just rod dog all your credit cards Damn Free range credit cards Have you ever had an issue No rubber band know nothing? No fucking...

Fuck you. Fuck rubber bands. You know what? That's just big wallet, bro. Big wallet. Just definitely big wallet. It's convinced us all. Big wallet.

I fight against... I've had three wallets my entire life. Dude. I had one I got from my grandpa. One for my garage sale. Well, yeah, man. That's a real thing, dude. Also, why do you think...

You can't sit on that shit. Someone's gonna steal it. That shit's right here. Dude, do you have... I feel like you have like a Costanza wallet, don't you? You have like that fucking... I have all these credit cards. I don't have...

Andy, what's in your wallet? I don't even know what's in my wallet. A bunch of pictures of my nephews and nieces. Saving receipts from tour. You have the little fold-out accordion one, though. I still have photos of all my ex-girlfriends in my phone, in my thing. Every single one. Just all of them that I do photo booths with.

Just girls I've hooked up with in the past. Does the current girl ever look in your wallet and be like, why do you have all these photos of ex-girlfriends? Yeah, she's going to figure it out now. She's going to figure it out now. It's like, don't worry, baby. They're all in here. Wow, it's all my ex-s situations in my wallet. This is crazy.

You're right. That's what it's like, just double down and look him in the eye. He has no wallet. This is Shelly. He's fucking pile of cards. What? No wallet? You're just rod-dogging a credit card?

He's crazy. This is your whole life. One ID? This is your whole thing? One ID. That's all you have? Wow. Is you just tap and stuff?

This guy's really famous. Let's get Tom out of here. Tom. We love you. you. Be safe out there. Me and Tom are the... Hey Tom, you and Nick are the same fucking person. Yeah, we really have a lot in common.

That's why we think. It's crazy. It's crazy. I'm really good. Yeah? Yeah. We have everything you said, I'm like, yep, I've been saying that for six years. It's so crazy, dude. You guys are literally the same fucking person. We got a jam, bro. Well, let's jam and hang out, man. I'm Denver, so hit me up.

Both you guys, come to fucking Philly, man. I got a great studio. We'll fucking hang out. What are you doing? We'll fucking just like... You guys playing? I'm having a barbecue at my house We're playing Philadelphia July 4th

And we're at the Fucking downtown Philly Like outside their big Philadelphia 4th It's 200 year of America 250 Oh word What?

I'm playing it Oh word That's great Well fucking stay an extra day dude I'm gonna stay next year dude I'm gonna hang out Let's hang out Let's celebrate this great nation of ours

Well yeah this is great nation All right Tom I don't want to get get you in more trouble than any than already. We already put you in. You're like, fuck the James scene. Fuck Grateful Dead. No.

No, I love, I love, I love, I love it. I love all of it. I don't. I'm just giving you hard time. The call is coming from inside the house. The call is coming from inside. All right, but love you. Be safe out there.

All right. I'll be here for you, man. Later of you. Thank you for doing it. Of course. Bye.