Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast - Rodrigo y Gabriela on Busking, Damien Rice & Starting From Nothing

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Before we get to Rodrigo y Gabriela, Andy and Nick go down a rabbit hole about Charlie Crockett, outlaw country, authenticity, and whether artists change who they are to sell more records. Then Gabriela joins us for a great conversation about leaving Mexico to busk in Ireland, becoming friends with Damien Rice before *O*, playing secret coffee shop shows together, their thrash metal beginnings, traveling Europe with almost no money, recording with Marty Friedman, and why staying curious has been the key to a 25+ year career. We also talk about: * Busking on Grafton Street * The Irish music scene in the late '90s * Why metal exploded in Mexico * Creativity vs. chasing success * Touring, travel, and finding your own path Enjoy.

All right, and we're live. Andy Frasco and Nick Gerlock's Hot-off. Hot-off. The Levitt Pavilion Show of a Lifetime. We did great. You did great, Nick. You killed it.

Yeah, I'm good at hiring. Yeah. The Colette has an excellent HR department. That band needs a black guy. We have one. I know. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's important.

One and a half. Isaac is so good at drums. I couldn't agree with you more. I think this is a pretty cold take, but yeah. I think next move. I'm going bass player next. Add another little dimension to it.

Yeah? What, black bass player? Hopefully. Nick wanted to do this opening, by the way, Rodrigo I Gabrielle. She is amazing. That band is amazing. Gabriella by herself came on,

but representing the band, Rodriguez, Gabriela. But Nick had a hot take about Charlie Crockett, and he didn't want to tell me the hot take. It's not a hot take. What is it? What's going on? I don't even know what's happening. Okay, so let me set the story here.

I just can't get over. He looks like Steph Curry. First of all, it... Is he actually a cowboy? Is this real? I used to believe in him. I don't know. But now I'm kind of... I'm completely out on Charlie Crockett at this moment. Because he's...

He was an emo kid. I didn't know that. You didn't know that? No. He was an emo kid. He wrote... See, you're on to him. I'm on to you, bitch.

No, I'm just kidding. Hold on. So what, hold on, why are you, why are you assuming this? I'm not assuming shit. This will probably never let us get Charlie Crock on the podcast,

but fucker. This is more interesting than anything he has to say. Charlie, protect your grace. So, okay, so he's like blowing up. He has this opener on his tour called Twin Temple.

They are like, they have you heard of them? They're a doo-wop band. They kind of sound like, you know, gospel, like, got a little Amy Winehouse to it,

but a little more clean, a little more like a marriage. not as grimy, but all their lyrics are about Satan. Worshiping Satan. Satan's a woman, blah, blah, blah, which is fun, right? Yeah. The branding's cool, but they're also very good singers and very performers. He had them as an opener on his tour. Okay.

And then he kicked them off. By the way, Jack White saved him. He kicked him off the tour because he found out they were Satanic. What? So he probably wasn't even listening to the music. First of all, step one. How do you not know what openers you're booking at when you book them? know your shit.

He probably just doesn't care. Step two. I thought you were Mr. fucking outlaw, Mr. badass, John Wayne, which all the way,

actually John Wayne's a fake ass too. So maybe he is John Wayne. So, all right, all right, that's enough. So, like,

so what, you're Mr. outlaw? I'm Mr. outlaw. As long as you worship Jesus Christ, as long as you're a Christian,

I'm an outlaw. It's like, it's a complete bullshit. It's like he paints himself as this like, you know, tough guy, outlaw,

cowboy. until you don't completely agree with him. And now he's going on these podcasts, talking about, now he's like, I think he's like, trying to do the country thing where you know how like the country seems a little conservative, which is fine. If you're going to be that, be that. But don't fake it to sell records. And he's always going on like, oh, I believe in God and all this stuff.

And let me guess. I don't even know this. I'm going to bet he has a record coming out in the next month or two. Probably. All this is is just like a ploy to, to like appeal to middle America so you can sell more records by getting rid of the satanic ban. But by the way, it's probably more interesting than his. music. Oh, you think he hired the satanic band just so he could fire them so he's a godly man.

Either that or he like saw the opportunity after he hired them. Ooh, I like conspiracy. Siri, Nick is back in the fucking building. I just don't like this like bitch-ass shit of like trying to, of like trying to appeal. You're really taking the air out of my fucking sales here with that. And I'm kidding. And it's like, what's your deal here, dude? Are you a fucking outlaw? Are you Mr. Billy Badass Southern Texas, former emo, cowboy? or are you John Wayne? Because I think you're John Wayne and I think it's bullshit

and I'm starting to become a fan of this Twin Temple Band now just because of this. Also, Jack White said you can open for me, bitch. I'm bigger than him anyway. I fucking love when you get fired up. I haven't heard you get fired up like that in a long time. I don't like this fucking religious shit. Nick Irlock, everybody.

Thank you. Have a great day. Enjoy the interview. It's actually a really pleasant interview, guys. It's a nice interview. He's like, let's put on something light. It's going to be a nice light episode. All of a fuck Charlie Crock.

Fuck this guy. Charlie, whatever. All right, I'll be with you. Fuck you, Charlie Crock. I don't even know you, but whatever. Yeah, whatever. Bye. Hi, I'm Andy.

I'm Nick. Hello, Andy, Nick. I'm Gabby. How are you doing? How's it going? Where are you right now? Mexico City? No, I'm in Mexico,

but in another part of Mexico calls Siwatenejo. And it's like a tropical place near Acapulco in the coast. Pacific coast so it's really hot I live

I live in Toto Santos in Baja so I'm not in I love I love Mexico what is what are some things about Mexico Americans don't know about that are awesome oh God

I don't know because here there's a lot of Americans and Canadians and probably they know everything about She's like, I'm in a tourist town. Yes. But I guess even for Mexico is such a big thing with so many layers and different aspects of politically, ecologically and culturally, that not even one Mexican will be able to grab the whole thing, you know. So there are many, many things.

Similar to the United States in that way. Exactly, exactly, you know, where about you guys are? We're in Denver right now, but I grew up in Los Angeles, Nick grew up in Indianapolis, and we're musicians as well, we're really big fans of your band. Oh, thank you so much. So tell me a little bit about, did you guys start in Mexico City? Well, with the format of Gabriella and Rodrigo, we really started in Ireland. Yeah, I heard that.

Before that, we had a band, like a normal thrash metal band in Mexico City for many years. And yeah, so then after that, that's when we went to live in Europe and all of that. said only me and Rodrigo. So tell me about your thrash metal band. What was it called? What did you love? What was the best part about rebellion being a thrash metal band? Give me why you love thrash metal.

Give me the whole story. The whole story, well, it's a long story. I've tried to be short. But, you know, Mexican middle class kids back in the early 90s. So me and Rodrigo, we were. hooked with metal music more than anything at that point, you know? And to me, what it was very attractive from that music was the Reeves, the rhythmic, you know, the solos, because it's guitar music based, you know, so it's too much of guitar.

So it didn't really speak any English at that time. So for me was like, all the screaming was like, oh, well. whatever, you know, I don't know. I don't know what the heck are they talking about. But it sounds cool. That's awesome. Oh, man, it's neat. So you guys were in a thrash metal band.

When did you guys decide to go to Ireland? Well, we set up to Ireland, right, when we kind of got tired to try to be a metal band famous in Mexico. Where would you guys travel? Where would you guys play? We traveled. So we went to Ireland, like, out of the blue, just wanted to kind of travel the world, quit the bands and quit all of the dreams about that. So we said, we can play guitar.

We can exchange the electric guitars for the acoustic, which is friendlier to everybody. And it will be easy for us to go. And so we really promised to ourselves no to work in anything else. except playing guitar. Even if it's going to be background music, like in faking weddings or whatever, that's what we wanted to do. So before Ireland, we went here,

we came here because it's a tourist town, it's tropical, and we thought, oh, maybe we can play at the hotels, you know? And that's what we did. We were playing. We didn't know any sort of like a swanky music to play at the hotels. We only knew metal violin. I love metal.

I love it. Yeah, we play all the metal ballads, like, Welcome Sanatorium, one, all the, you know, the intros from an album, A Testament. What's the name of that album? I can't remember. It was all intros with acoustic guitar, like, very beautiful. So we were playing all of that. That was like a set, and Americans,

and Canadians thought we played some Mexican music and we thought, oh yes, but it's contemporary Mexican music. So, and so we did that for a couple of months and we got paid for the first time playing guitar.

And we kind of got some of the money. We bought one-way tickets to Europe and so we said, let's fuck it, we go there, you know, and see what happens. And that's what we need. Were you into folk music, like Irish folk music by then?

Or would you get introduced to it when you're out there? We got introduced. Of course you sort of know something. But we were very ignorant about many things. And so going there, first of all, we learned it was fucking freezing. I've fucking met. Y'all Mexicans. You know, it's kind of a fucking cold out there, dude.

What's this food? Mexicans, yes. It was like April and it was snowing at some night. So it was like, ah, it's cold. And we thought we were going to be able to play at the, you know, at the hotel. And some hotels or restaurants like the way in Mexico, you can do that. But over there was very hard to find a place like that. And we found the streets.

And the street found us. And we had no choice because we ran out of money in the first week. And so we had to play in the street. Yes or yes, it was no choice. All right. Hope you're enjoying the interview. But a quick message from our buds. Hey, musicians, are you playing shows but have no clips to show for it?

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Go to fucking Jamcutt All right hey boys what about Jamc We love it. They fucking love it. So did you meet any like Irish folk songwriters back to like Damian Rice or Glenn Hansard? Were they around? Yes. Yes.

But that was like a few months that we were already professional buskers and we knew how to. Like we had the little amplifiers and that we were playing and grabbed some streets. And we got all of these people surround us. And they just came on and listened to it. And one of those guys was Damien. And we didn't know Damien had a band, but he approached us. So we used to go for cappuccinos after the busking sessions. And so we did a good friend with Damien at that time.

And so it was a really cool time. It was a lot of stress too because you never know, you know, you never know how it's going to be next day and things like that. But at the same time, it was like awesome because it was like not knowing is good. Yeah. Not knowing what the hell is going to happen. What was it like learning English with the Irish, like the Irish accent being your first like exposure to the English language all the time? Like, do that make it harder?

It was hard. Even like some of the Americans there were just had fucking headaches, you know. because I didn't understand. Like, you know, Irish, they have a very singular accent, but they also have a very different way to express themselves a little more similar to Mexicans in the way of a lot of jokes, black humor, irony, sarcastic. Oh, yeah.

That was no problem. But everything else was hard to understand. So were the Irish children? cheap when they're giving you money for busking? No, no. Honestly, Irish for us was like incredible. We didn't know how much money we were making because I told you we were so ignorant. And when we came there, that was 99, 1999.

Yeah, yes. So it was still Irish pounds. And so for me, one pound sounded like one. And for me, like, oh, we made, like, I don't know, 90 Irish pounds in, I don't know, in half an hour. And it was, oh, this is great. And everything is super cheap, you know, because everything costs like 50 cents or whatever. So it, and then I realized, then we realized after a few months that, oh, this is good money, you know, in the street. So it was, it was like that.

So 99 you're in Ireland. So that means Damien was on his hiatus. He was busking. He was out of Juniper, right? He wasn't in Juniper anymore. He finished Juniper. He finished Juniper. He told us like he had a band like us.

So there was a lot of identification with Damien because we had a band. And we said, you should busk because he didn't want to because he felt like, oh, I don't know. I feel like. You know, because Boskin is, it feels back then, I don't know today, but back then, it felt like if you were like a beggar, you know, like you are so beautiful. So it was hard to do, but it was great. Yeah. It's great. I always recommended to people.

It's pretty amazing how shy. Damien Rice is the reason why I play piano or play music. Oh, really? Yeah, I quit school. I saw Damien Rice play in college and I quit everything. I became a musician. So like... That's incredible.

He's like my biggest... He's like biggest inspiration. And what I loved about his story is he just quit Juniper and lived on a farm. Or like he lived on a set... Like, didn't he like live... And then he started busking and stuff. So you met him during his hiatus years. Yeah, we met him when he was transitioning.

But he already was quite focused on what he wanted to do. Yeah, he was making a oh, right? Yeah, he was making over, but he was just very, yeah, he was just very, like, focused at that time of what he wanted to do and to become an artist. He played, he named himself Dodima. And so we did a couple of gigs with him. He invited us to play at his favorite, our favorite coffee shop in Ireland called Kournokov. which is a vegan cafe. And he did like a secret gigs.

He did like three secret gigs at night. So we did support for him there. And then he went to do his thing. And me and Rod, we went to do our own thing in the way that we were not focused like him. We were like, fuck it, you know, just let's change the country. Give me another beer. Were you guys partying?

Were you guys partying? I thought. It was just crazy. Imagine we were super young. Irish people thought we were Brazilians who said, no, we're not resilient from Mexico. And they're like, oh, fuck it, whatever, you know. And then we found Irish weather too much, and we went to fucking Denmark. You went to Denmark?

The happiest country on Earth, you know that? Yes. because we were just running away from Irish weather. So you went into more Irish weather. Yeah, it was quite a lot. And Denmark was incredible and everything. Oh, it's so beautiful there. But she was super cold and we were busking there also.

And in Denmark. You should have went to Italy. So. Sorry? You should I went to Italy. Yeah, why did you? Were you there for a purpose? Like was the music inspiring you to go to these places

or you just wanted to get away? Well, just avoiding things you do. I love it. Also, like a tremendous, like, urge to travel. Like, kind of get to know the world, but not as a tourist. Yeah. Just, I just wanted to kind of do,

like, just break the falcon rules. You know, just do anything that is not possible to do and try to do it. But it wasn't like we were young and we were very in another parts of ourselves, depressive and very insecure and tired of with the metal band trying to become famous and all of these things. So for us, it was like travel and play. It's a great combination. Right. But that's why I told you, we were not.

like Damien was. He knew he wanted to be an artist. He knew do-do. And meanwhile, me and world were spinning around, meeting all crazy people and faring a lot and changing countries and playing here and there and most of the time in the street. That's incredible.

It's unbelievable. I feel like... I feel like... I feel like... I feel like musicians are the last explorers. Yeah. Totally. Artists in general.

Artists. Yes, musicians, because you are there playing, creating the arts right there, it's compelled. We didn't speak any English, but we spoke universal language of music and rhythm. And Irish, they're like crazy people, you know. They're like they love music.

It's a very musical country. So immediately they adopt us. you know and so we started playing in absolutely every single like event and also politically economically Ireland had this thing called the Celtic tiger which was like a lot of money from the European Union to Ireland so people were rich like like there were new rich people and so they want they saw us in the streets playing and so all these Brazilian they're like They keep telling you Brazilians. Yeah, they kept calling us Brazilian.

You're like, whatever. Whatever, pay me. Yeah, as long as you give me money, you can call me whatever you want. And they want, yeah, they want us in their party. They want us and I didn't really speak English. I was a very paranoid person. And this woman came in and she said, I kind of understood she wanted us to play in their house in a religious party. And at that time, we really needed the money because she was a ran of money every day.

So we said, yes, but I didn't know where it was. And because she said religious, I thought it was some sort of like a ritual sect, and we're going to get murder in the house. But when we came in, it was a first communion party with the little girl. And it was like a few. We arrived. They're very professional about to play. And these Irish people, oh, I just have a fucking drink.

bring with us and was like, okay, let's get drunk before we play. Fulkin. She did that, she did fucking, just like the Irish people do. It's funny. Fokin. You talk about being paranoid, but you live this free wildlife. How do you get out of your own way to live this free life? Oh, yes, it's very paradoxical because living the free life out of the rules of society and all

of these, that's what it was very inspiring. But in the other hand, I was kind of paranoid about people. Because when we were young, very young, Mayor Rodrigo, we got in a taxi driver in Mexico City, we were very young, and this taxi driver assault us. You know, we'd ask us for our money and Toradoosa. That was super, super, super scary. and they just They robbed you?

Yes. Oh my God. So there was like a long time and like way before. So I got that's a heart and I always kind of get paranoid of people like that

because it's a trauma, you know? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, but I guess it's better to get out in the world and leave the world and just deal with your own traumas, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And realizing, one experience isn't going to ruin every other experience. You know, we've got to keep living. We've got to keep on trying to be present, even though it's scary. I get, I get, I have, yeah, it's like get out of your own way a little bit so you could live. I'd always tell my mom, she's always super paranoid. She doesn't want to go out, doesn't want to do anything. I'm like, you got to get out there and live.

You're looking to yourself. You're getting older saying you haven't done anything. We have to, like, get out of our own way to live. Absolutely. And this is it like, I mean, back in the day, I didn't even, I was so young that I'd even even thought about that. Yeah, like that, you know, I never thought like, oh, get on my own way and I deal with it. Or now today, at the click of your iPhone, you can do a therapy for trauma, whatever. Yeah, right, right, right.

But therapy was give me another pint, you know, just I forget about it. Do you think you felt like it was a little easier to be free and explore because you, like, you like didn't have any money and like so like there wasn't anything to fail on totally totally totally was like completely in another place with the other people that are completely strangers it was scary because they don't know anybody but especially another culture that is completely different as as superficially as you see it is very different you know it's super gray It gets dark at four back in the day. And then also, I couldn't see.

Today, if we go to Dublin, it looks like any other Mediterranean contemporary city. But when we arrived, it wasn't like that. Everything was closed and you couldn't see anything. And it was cold and it was great. And then one night we got inside a pop. It was like the third night in Dublin. We got inside a pub. And it was super warmed and it was super cozy.

It was packed. And it was a band with a girl playing the bass. And they were doing cranberries covers. Oh, cool. Oh, sick. But they sounded awesome. And then I discovered Guinness. So for me, it was like, oh, this is warm.

It's nice. And this super big class of Guinness is like, I don't know, probably 50 cents. or one pound. And to me that was incredible, you know, it was like, oh, fuck, yeah, I love this. This is great, you know. Oh, my God. That's unbelievable.

And, you know, I have to ask this. So when did you guys, when did you guys first fall in love? Was it in the thrash metal band? Was it in Ireland? Or what was? Because you were a couple earlier in your career, right? Weren't you a couple before? Earlier, earlier in my, earlier, we were really kids.

and we were just like nuts. I think we're better musicians, badmates than a couple. At least you figure that out, you know, you got it out of the way. So who liked who more? Look, I think both, I think me and Rodrigo, like if you believe in probably reincarnation, I think we are Rodrigo, we've been in a couple of lifetimes together as a different You know, and this one we had this sort of crazy life, you know, crazy life nowadays. We're much mature.

And everyone has their own space and we come show up here every day to studio to play music and to do music and share a lot of things. But I think we both are different, you know, like in that way. Essentially music is one of the same. central things that keep us as a family. Today, we're like brother and sister, you know. Yeah. And back in the day, back on the day, we were both crazy. There was a lot of like adventures and it was a lot of both had a lot of like fears.

And like you're nothing that you like people don't know about it. Like depression. and just crazy soul, like tormented souls. Yeah. So music kept us sane. Music kept us saying because every time we went into a difficult zone of existential depression or shit like that, and always music saved us literally.

And I remember one day we were playing in a coffee shop and Dublin. And we started to kind of, we argue about everything back then. Like, oh, this piece should be this, or this is stupid shit, you know, nothing serious. And then we got this homeless guy who was knocking at the window, like completely locked. Like, ta-t-da. And so, for us, it was like the universe saying, stop it. Stop this bullshit. So the other time also in the street.

Another crazy guy. And we were arguing and arguing about, should we bus here? No. Should we bus here there? Blah, blah. And this guy came in like a homeless crazy guy and say, oh, you two shut up and play. And also in Denmark we had, actually we attributes one of our pieces to him, the Viking

Man. And it was a homeless we made friends with. And he was always drunk. And he helped us. No, the bono was in Ireland. This was the Danish Viking homeless crazy person. Okay, so I believe in this stuff. When you get out of your head and you're in present,

there's going to be signs that the universe is going to tell you to quit this shit and let's keep it moving, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's important that you listen to those signals. Because to me, you can't explain life, you know, you can't explain. And when you decide to walk into a, how would you say, like a void, you know, decide to live society, live everything that is like secure and, you know, like,

calculated or whatever. And you decided to just like, I'm just going to quit this or I'm just going to stop this relationship or whatever is that it's weird to you. And you decided to cut it and just a step to the void, then you need to trust some other. Trust the void. Very important messages.

Yes. Trust the void. Yes. Trust the void. Oh, yeah. So what were like the first moments of at a relationship? Into professionalism with the musicianship. Where those first couple shows, like, rough and, like, or was it just like, like,

a little angsty, like, no, we're not lovers, whatever. It's like, we're getting out of our own way. We weren't, you weren't thinking about the music. You were thinking about the emotion of the relationship, or did you guys instantly go, we're better musicians, we're better business partners than we are a relationship? Well, that's, you see, I'm going to like one day I'd write a book. and I'm going to sell a lot of money with us. Hell yeah.

But essentially what I know is, like, since the very beginning, the Mayor Rodriguez we both met, we talked about music and guitar. So for us, for both of us, individually, that was something that became so powerful, so it's such a force. So we didn't need to say, oh, now we're going to be, now we're going to be performing or now we're going to be like for us the most important thing was always

the music and the guitar not very romantic not into very romantic I hated it back then all the romantic shit never watch any romantic film never wanted to sing any romantic so I was

I wasn't too metal I wasn't too metal you're a metal in yeah you're not so Latin American, what is it with metal in Latin America? I feel like metal is just huge in Latin America. Is there something that speaks? Oh, yes.

Is there a reason for that? I have my own theories, but probably need to ask to an anthropologist or something. But my own theory is like, I would say from Mexico, because I never live in another place in Latin America. But I would say in Mexico, there's a lot of crazy story politically and economically. But I think that when society behaves in a way in such a way all the time, like even programming or whatever, then you have a reflection on the people, on the population. And that reflection can be a lot of people that is not happy with the government,

a lot of people that are not happy with the establishment, with the music that is being played and being forced onto people. And so we belong to a generation where just the radio and TV, and everything was taken over by the big things here, you know, and there was all this pop horrendous. horrendous. Back for me was like horrendous because he was all romantic shit.

And so you find like metal is not nice to your ears. It's just like a big four cube to that. So I guess that's why it's a big. I think you nailed it. I don't think you are an anthropologist. I don't think we need an anthropologist. You just nailed that.

I mean you kind of are you've traveled the world. You've experienced all these cultures. You are an anthropologist. Yeah, I feel like you people who, yeah, like backseat anthropologists who don't leave their house versus you're out there in these streets. Gab? Exactly. Waiting people and get to live the life. And I think, as you say, and it was like, sometimes you need to, in order to leave, if you need to risk certain things, you know, you need to get to know people.

And sometimes getting to know people is, it's not easy. It's not easy to get along. It's not easy to understand. It's not easy to, a lot of shit. Yeah, this is why I run away, Gap. I stay on the road with my band. I don't want anyone to get to know me for too long, you know. They might find out.

Yeah, they might find out. I'm a fucking weirdo. But, yeah, because we're musicians too. We're 20 years in as well. We're like, it's, I love traveling. You know,

my band's Andy Frasco in the UN and Nick Gorlock is in the Coltet. Yeah. He's a singer and a sax player. Yeah, we do 250 shows a year, so. Well,

that's a lot. Yeah. But I loved metal too. And I always, I always thought metal heads are way nicer than hippies. Why are metalheads? Metalheads are cosplaying nice people

and hippies are cosplaying mean people. What's your theory on that? Just theory on that. But today, do you think there's still many metal heads or they're like extinct? Yeah. Maybe not like the 80s, but they're out there. I got this weird theory about rock and roll too. Like there's not as many rock and roll fans.

I couldn't agree with you more on that, especially under 50. Yeah, what do you think that is? Do you think just the production wise or are you, what are you seeing in instrumental music? I mean, you guys are top of your game. You guys are one of the greatest to do it. What do you see out there? Well, I tend to be honest, I tend not to see many things because there's right now. There's many, many, many things there.

And it's very hard to sort of grab. And I made myself a promise I don't need to listen to everything that is out. I don't. And so most of the time and you would understand this because you guys are musicians. Most of the time, you are playing.

Most of the time you're creating things and you tend to go and listen to things that are completely challenging. They're not like the typical thing that you've been listening to all the time. Yeah. And you know that sort of thing. And I'm also very weird, though, like that.

But I think now I'll be talking like an anthropologist again. I think what happens is social media knowledge like an extension of what we had back when we were kids. You know, it's an extension of the radio. It's an extension of the TV. But it's the same game. You know, it's the same game. And I think a lot of the times musicians, we get programmed to behave in such a way. We compare ourselves to others.

We compare ourselves to how many likes this one or how much. Back in the day, how many copies did this guy sell or whatever. And I think that's shit for musicians for artists to do that. It's not fair to do that to yourself. Because at the end of the day, everybody has their own shit to figure it out. And I think also age is another sort of discrimination thing in the industry when it's so mainstream and things like that. And so I try to get away from all those programs. You get a program and then you end up thinking like that.

And I don't like that bullshit. So for me, as long as you guys, for example, you guys keep... you both as a musicians, you keep expanding in your creativity, expanding and what you do, and you feel alive with that. Fuck the world.

Who cares? Fuck the world. Let's fucking go. You are my therapist. You are my fucking therapist, fuck the world. Fuck the world, nothing matters. Wow.

Oh, my God. Thank God you exist. Gabriela and Niski over here. I need you. I need you in my life, guys. Yes, yes. Move to Denver. We got studios.

Yo, I got questions. So do you get competitive with your bandmate to be better? At guitar? At guitar? Honestly, I can tell you more about guitars in that way. When we both started in the metal band, we both play PIC and Rod used to scream and play the guitar. And I used to be like that Kirkhammed, like, Roe. was James Gensden and I was Kirk Hammond, you know?

So we started like that with the peak. When we moved to play in the street, and I knew that I had the band, we both had a band in our hit. We didn't come from the jazz world or from the academic world of playing nice classical guitar and things like this. So the way we sort of expressed was like through like a rock energy.

So for me it was important to kind of feel the beat. And that's how I started to develop instinctively all the rhythms and the beat, you know. So that automatically I started to change the way I played from Rodrigo. So Rodrigo kept on the leads, those melodies. Like I took on all of the other aspects of a band. You're the mean potatoes. Like a two-piece puzzle more than a competition or something.

Wow. Exactly. It's more like complement each other. And I think it's important, like, if you start practicing a lot of other things or whatever, and it's good that you get inspired if the other one is playing a lot. and you are just fucking around, that's good because then you are, you stop fucking around and come back and play a movie, you know?

That sort of thing. The best thing about having a, about having a duo and one being Hetfield and the other one being Kirk Hammett is you don't have to have a Lars. Yeah, that's true. Exactly. Exactly. No Lars.

We don't need them. Have you had any of your metal, um, mentors ever come up to your shows? You're like, holy shit, this is crazy. You guys, they're watching our show. Like, and you're like mental. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Like good. Like good. We got Alex Konek from Testament. Oh, wow. A long time in New York. And so we married with such a big fans because you know, guitarist. You both are guitarists.

You both are guitarists. I have piano. He plays saxophone. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay, okay. Well, you know, guitarists have like a guitar hero. Yeah, yeah. Me and Rod are guitar heroes, all of our guitar heroes belong to a band.

Like, you know, Dimeback from Pantera. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we got also Alex Kolnick from Testament and Marty Freeman and Megadeth. And so those three were our top, beloved guitar, guitar heroes from the metal world. So Alex came to one of our gigs in New York. This is a long time ago and he came to say hello at the dressing room. So me and Rodrigo were a star struck, you know. Oh my God. Alex. So we became good friends with Alex and we just met him again. We saw him last time in New York. We played a gig a few, like a month ago, I think, and he was there and he's such an incredible

player. We also have Marty Freeman as a guest in our new album, our home. And so Marty, we know Marty a long time ago, too, and we guest in his albums, and now it's the first time he guest in one of our albums.

That's so right. Were you like pitching yourself in the studio when he was doing it? Were you in the studio with him, or did he send it in? No, he was in the studio because we recorded it in Tokyo and he in Tokyo and he got us the studio for us because we didn't we don't speak Japanese you know

we wanted to go to Japan we wanted to go to Japan because we said fucking why not we want to do an album in another place and another and so we sent him a message because we messes with him and he has a beautiful Japanese wife and she plays a cello and he said oh yes I get a let me get a studio with a friend of mine, and I love Hiyjori to play something on the album, and of course, Hejori is a beautiful cello, classical player, and she played something also through the album, and Marty Friedman did one of my favorite solo ever, you know, he did an incredible solo for one of our pieces, seamwork in our latest album. So it was incredible. We were We're just there watching him work.

And we take videos of him doing the solo. So it's in any, he's such a nice person, by the way. You know, it's a very nice person. Were you pinching yourself? I'd be pinching. I'd be like, what the fuck? I can't believe we're here. We're in Japan.

Exactly. Oh. Yes. Yes. Yes. It was just a dream come through. You know, like a dream. Isn't it amazing?

the power of saying yes? It's amazing, the power of saying yes and also the power of saying fuck you, I'm going to do what I want to do. Yeah, the rage against machine was right about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's just sometimes you get people that they don't trust you or they don't trust the situation because nobody goes to Japan and do an album there because we can do it in Los Angeles

because blah, blah, blah. And I said like, yeah, whatever. But we want to do it in Japan. Boring. We want to live out here. I ain't trying to be sterile. Come on. You might have to polish my fucking plates too.

Fuck that. I want some edge. I want some dirt. What was the most random place you recorded? The most rainy? Random. Random. Random.

I think it's Japan because I cannot remember any other place we did one day, one of our albums we mastered it in somewhere in Ireland, northern Ireland, in a little town and that was a crazy random place to be, you know,

but that was a long time ago. How long does the, how long do you guys take, it doesn't mastering take a day or does how long do you to master records normally? That particular record that was a long time ago, it took us like two, three days. Yeah. And yeah, so it was another time. Today, the technology and everything is a guy can just fly doing that.

But back in the day, it was just like being there in the studio and it was very like, you know, you know what I'm talking about. And your amazing player, so it doesn't take 45 takes to get it right. What was the hardest record to make for you? Oh, let me think probably one album that is called self-titled album that we were meant to record here in Mexico. This was back in the day when we were living in Ireland and we had the camp. We started doing a lot of tours and a lot of gigs, and it was a lot of gigs, like 270 gigs a year.

So we were super tired and we asked their management, like, can we go back to Mexico to SIGWA and rent a place? And Damien lend us his gear where he recorded, oh. So we got some of the, yeah, Damien was always generous. Oh, use his home studio microphones and stuff? Yeah, like it was, it was, yeah, it was a lot of gear from there. and that we could pack it. So we got our sound engineer, Graham and Chris, and the Irish guy.

So we came to Mexico to record an album, but remember we were just so exhausted from so many tours. So we came here and we were just drinking and swimming. So we didn't record anything in the month. We stay here. You guys were going to enjoy. yourselves too. It can't all just be work, right? This is what I hate about America. It's like, we all live to work. I feel everyone else works to live. Yeah, yeah. That's boring. That's boring.

That you need to have phone. And so we came back with no, with no album and solar management at the time they found like furiously a studio in England in South of In Baths. And they got us a producer, which was John Lecky. Is there somewhere you haven't been? You're out here in the pool, join the sunrise, you know, you're in the pool drinking, no problems.

Your manager's like, what the fuck is happening that we've lost our bands. And then we got two Irish guys with us, so, you know, so it was just like, pardon. Irish eyes are smiling.

Did you ever get into like cocaine or anything hard or just booze? Never cocaine. I never even marijuana because when I was super young at 16, I tried marijuana and it didn't went well. So for me, it was alcohol. It was the best drug. Yeah, me too.

So no hard drugs. And that's why it's more difficult to face your own shadows. Because when you don't do those drugs, you have to fucking face them just like that. You know, so with the drugs, you can run away from the back door and then you die. And that's it. Yeah. Yeah, you got to face those demons one way or another when you're boozing. What about, have you met Lisa Hanigan?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, Lisa, lovely Lisa. She was my first crush ever. She was Damien Rice's girl singer. That band with the cello player two. What was her name? Vivian. Oh my God, I love her. She is so sweet.

She's so cool and quirky. Jane and Tomo. Tomo. Tomo. And then who's the big bass player? What was his name? Shane. Oh, he was cool, too.

They're great, great bands. Yeah, no, no, because we did a lot of gigs with them. And also, Vivian played with us, and Lisa also did a recording with us, and one of their first sort of demo. And so we're not, yeah, we were like in all Dubliners, except Tomo, he was, he came from New York, but lived in Kerry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's Lisa like? Lisa is a lovely, absolutely adorable person.

I know. She's, she speaks, too. It's like how she. With a great voice, voice and everything, you know. Yeah. Yeah, that was a shame when those two stopped playing music together. I thought those two together were just... Were they in a relationship, too?

I think so. I don't know. Yes. They were? Okay. There's a word. I think they were. Yeah.

Yeah. And then when he left, Damon went a little cuckoo. Went to say, he got the sailing and... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved it. Damon's story is so fascinating. I love Ireland. I love the whole folk.

You're at the bar. You're playing folklore songs. Like... Play for 20 hours. sometimes. It's very bluegrass. There's like a big connection there. Oh my God. What's, um...

Yes, yes. Have you, uh, what about, uh, Mexican music? What about Manu Chow? What's your take on Manu Chow? Manu Chow is French. Oh, he's French? Oh, he's French? He's French.

I didn't know that. He was really big in Mexico. He's really big of Mexico, huh? He's huge in Mexico and Europe. And I, I bet in Latin America in general. Yeah. So, but he's great. I didn't know that.

I thought he was Mexican. I got one question. Just to put you on the spot as a great guitar player yourself, if someone had to ask you, who do you think is the greatest acoustic guitar player in the world? Who do you think it is? You know, that's very, like, I don't like the best wine or the best tequila or the best.

It's kind of, like, hard to. Okay, your favorite then. And honestly, today's is so very, very many. For me, to me, like the guitar, God, has everything and he has a composer. Yes. And also executing and also with a lot of, I guess a genius, was Paco de Lucia. Oh, there you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because yeah, like, Paco de Lucia was, well, incredible. And then also there's another guy, Vicente Amigo, which we know also. He has that grandiosity. But today, I believe there's many, many, many incredible young musicians that you can see every day in the social media. I don't know who the fuck they are, but they're incredible. Yeah, yeah. It's getting wild. There's like eight-year-olds out there.

A lot of girls, a lot of girls, they play very incredible, like acoustic, electric, and it's just very talented. Yeah, I love it. You're talking about musicians. I'm talking about hot goss. Goss from Lisa Hanigan and Damien Rice. It's a good balance. And he's talking about, yeah, this is, I, I could talk to you forever, guy. You are unbelievable.

So I need, I need more, I have two more questions. I'll let you get back to making music. What keeps on, what keeps you inspired to make more music? Just many things, but one of the things that I think, the words to be inspired, first is just leave in the place that is close to nature or within nature is a very inspiring thing because it's another dimension. And if you go walk, like here, if you go and walk, you can hear, there are many things

that we don't hear because we are just thinking bullshit all day and listen to crazy shit. But if you walk and just keep, like, silent, you'll hear so many, you actually hear music from nature. And that's really beautiful to keep you inspired. But then it comes like the metal thing. Like the humans, we destroy nature. And so that also keeps me inspired to sort of like whatever I do, I'll do it with that intention of just share things, musically speaking, but also the opportunity to say stop.

You know, let's stop. Let's do. Let's respect nature and everything as it is. Do you like writing about the beauty of life or do you like writing about the evil life? But I think both. I mean, if you only write about the beauty of life, that means that you are some sort of enlightened being. But since we are here in this around, we're not enlightened. So you need to put the evil aspect.

Oh, I'm clapping to that too. Let's go. I'm into that. I'm into that. People are so... Why do people sniff their ass so much? I don't... These enlightened people, they just...

I don't... Listen, if you have to tell someone you're enlightened, you're not enlightened. Yeah. It's bullshit. It's bullshit. You need, like, it's bullshit. So we all have the capability to do very fucking terrible things. We all, but where we live in a very...

privileged world and we like you three of us we don't know what it is to live in a conflict zone you know like a proper fucking world where where you have like a fucking bombs just bit so i think when when we are forced to to experience things like that that's what you show you through colors that's my theory you know that's where you show how good you truly are You know, that's my theory. It's true. I love that. It's so true.

Man, you're amazing. Thank you so much for your time. What a personality. What a personality. Does everybody just fall in love with you right away? Yeah, does everyone just fall in love with you? I bet everyone just like is just, are you married? Like, do you have a boyfriend, a girlfriend?

I'm not kidding. Tell me. Here's the part where we start flirting with you. No, I'm not married. I like to be a love. I love to be along. I really enjoy my time. Like I do a lot.

I love to write things. I love to write music, play music. And also I draw, I draw a lot. So either of those things. And also I do a lot of like, this is a cool community of people that would care for nature and animals. So with mostly women, we are doing a lot of things, rescue cats and dogs.

and trees and all that, hippie shit. But in the metal way, you know. That's fucking go. It's probably not married because she can't pick between all the people who are in love with her. I know. You know, people always like, how did you get out of, I have a question for you about this

because I'm like that too. I never really had a relationship. I'm like, I'm on my path of my art and my of being everywhere. I love that about myself. And everyone tries to make me feel bad about that. How do you, how do you get out of your own, like, because it's not normal.

Like, the normal thing is to have a relationship, have the white picket fence. How'd you get out of that mind state to make you still feel free in your head? Well, for me, it's like normal doesn't mean the right thing. Like normal can be quite macabre and quite terrible, you know?

Yeah. Because all the things with all the ones, things are normalized. You know the worst things in the world. Normal is so right. So you don't want to be normal. Normal is boring as fuck, Gabby. Unless you're into that.

Exactly. Exactly. So, and I think fuck society because it has a lot of like stupid programs. And you need to be very good about not to get programmed. It's a deep programmed yourself, you know? You're right. People talk about a lot of things

that it's just like two deep two centimeters deep. It's usually very superficial. It never really goes deep. And sometimes for you to be a functional human being to be of like a nice son or a nice brother or nice father or whatever, you need to be in yourself.

You need to have that time for you. And you cannot just be pretending you're having fun with a relationship or let's go to a restaurant and I was like bullshit you know I just like not for me yeah yeah same oh you're the best

thank you so much for sharing your time with us I really appreciate it come to Denver and play a show we'll come to Denver and play a show we'll come watch you I'm gonna I'm gonna wherever I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna take out yeah oh yes let's go we'll have some beers together guys thanks so much for your time

tell Rod thank you for the music you guys are the best and we're always here reading on. No, thank you both. It was so much fun talking to you both. Oh, you thank you. Yes. Come and say hello wherever we play in Colorado. Yeah, we're on tour.

I know our tour has crossed past a lot, so we'll see each other. And one day, one day, we leave it open. Yep. Have a good one, Gabby. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you.