Angry Planet - Nazis in Syria, and What the Media Gets Wrong About Conflict

Episode Date: June 22, 2018

Among the hundreds of groups fighting in Syria, one stands out. They’re the ones carrying the swastika flag. Independent journalist Jake Hanrahan joins the show to tell us about them and also why, more and more, people covering war are having to go it alone.You can listen to War College on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play or follow our RSS directly. Our website is warcollege.co. You can reach us on our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/warcollegepodcast/; and on Twitter: @War_College.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/warcollege. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Love this podcast? Support this show through the ACAST supporter feature. It's up to you how much you give, and there's no regular commitment. Just click the link in the show description to support now. You know, some guy running around with like stick stones and like machine gun can actually influence massive decisions that are made in the White House or Brussels or wherever because, you know, these militias end up kind of being backed by a side here and there. You're listening to War College, a weekly podcast.

that brings you the stories from behind the front lines. Here are your hosts, Matthew Galt and Jason Fields. Hello, welcome to War College. I'm Matthew Galt. And I'm Jason Fields. The world is full of wars, both big and small, with so much conflict and so much journalism focused on the home front, war can slip through the cracks. Jake Hanrahan lives in those cracks and picks up those stories.

He's a journalist and a filmmaker from the UK. His work has appeared on Frontline PBS and HBO. He's also just launched a podcast called Popular Front. It's a great show that focuses on the niche and geeky details of modern warfare. If you want to know how suicide car bombs are built by ISIS or learn about the Nazis fighting in Syria, the Popular Front is a show for you. If you love War College, you'll love Popular Front. Jake, thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks very much. Thanks, having me on again. So why did you start this show? I think I kind of felt like there was a small, community amongst people I speak to, you know, whilst researching and just, just talking nonsense on Twitter about like various war topics. And I felt like this community didn't really have kind of a podcast for it because it's really very niche, you know, like talking about this random militia here that nobody has heard of. The kind of things you would never be able to actually get an article published on are actually some of the most interesting things I think about modern warfare.

So I was like, you know what, let me just do this podcast. You know, I had some time and I was a bit bored and I thought, yeah, I think that would be quite fun. And it has been, you know, and it's been really fun to learn as well from the people I speak to. What do you see that's wrong with current conflict journalism? I mean, you just said that a lot of the stuff that you're really interested in is the stuff that you have a hard time pitching and selling to some of the publications. Like what is that, you know, what kind of stuff is that and why aren't they interested in it? So I think this comes down to a problem that is kind of rampant in general. journalism in general, not just conflict reporting.

The people that are in the places of power like commissioners or editors, a lot of them are from a very elitist background. And when they tell you, oh, normal people don't want to know about that. You'll hear that a lot. People don't want to know about that. And I think, how on earth do you know, because you haven't been amongst, you know, these weirdos like me and my friends and the other reporters I talk to about this stuff. You've no idea.

So I think that's a big problem, like the kind of, there's a bit of a false narrative when you get editors and commissioners. like we know what we're talking about, people don't want this. And it's like, actually, you don't know what you're talking about often. And you know, and you often don't know what people want. That's why journalism is in a, you know, dire state, I think, at the time, at the moment. Not to say that all commissioners are terrible. Like, there are some amazing ones out there.

But I think because journalism is, especially like conflict journalism is so precarious right now, nobody wants to take risks. And that's understandable. But again, I just want to go back to that thing I said about, like, the elitism is a big problem. So with Popular Front, what I wanted to do was, kind of just make it a bit more fun. You know, I don't want it to be too formal. It can go on for as long as it goes on for. And the idea is it's not for everybody. You know, it's not for everybody. It's not meant to be easily accessible. Everything is so easily accessible now.

Like, and, you know, in my opinion, that's what brought us the hell of like, you know, modern journalism where you get slideshow videos and garish text and you get one minute of information. People actually don't want that. They want really detailed stuff. And this idea that, oh, well, people have got a short attention span. They'll only watch five minutes. Netflix smash that myth out of the park. You know, people will sit for hours and hours and hours. I do.

You know, they'll watch series and they'll just watch it for hours on end if they have time. People are not stupid, you know. I think there's this thing where, you know, it's almost like people assume that the normal consumer is an idiot. They're not. And if you give them something that's interesting and they can relate to, they'll listen to it. They'll, you know, they'll indulge in it for as long as they want to. Can I ask you, since Matt included it at the introduction. and you're talking about stories that don't get reported.

Really Nazis fighting in Syria? Is that a real thing? Yeah, yeah, it is a real thing. I mean, what you're referring to is the first episode of Popular Front where I did, I interviewed a guy that knows all about the SSNP, so the, what is it, the Syrian Social Nationalist Party of Syria. And they're now fighting on the side of Assad. And they're kind of based in Lebanon.

and they have this big idea where they want to fight for this greater Syria. But actually, if you look at them, their logo is a massive swastika. You know, there's no way around it. They're like, oh, it's not a swastika, it's a storm. It's a swastika. And they say that every enemy of theirs, whether they're, you know, whatever religion they are, there's the eternal Jew. So anybody who's against them is an eternal Jew.

And yeah, and their leader was very, very into Hitlerism. So basically there's this, you know, there's this kind of. Nazi group running around in Syria, fighting for Assad. It's really weird, but when you listen to the episode, you start to realize, like, it's not that unusual, considering the Assad regime being, like, harboring Nazis for years, you know, one of the last SS guys, like, died in one of their prisons after he kind of, I think he, like, pissed off affairs, one of them. So, so, yeah, it was, quite interesting. It's quite, like, kind of hidden bit of history in a way, I think, which, they're not a huge militia, you know, and they probably haven't read Mind Kamp, but, you know,

Definitely the ideology is kind of the most militant anti-Semitism you could possibly come up with, even in Syria. You're an independent journalist now. Back then you had, you had an agency backing you up, you know, what will? Maybe the last year or so, I would, I've kind of come to this realization that maybe independent journalism is the only way forward for me personally. Not to say that like, you know, if New York Times like, hey, you want a job, I'd be like, no, sorry, you know, like, obviously. but I think there is a big problem with having to meet these kind of goals and clicks and all that nonsense has really infested itself even within conflict journalism. For me, I don't know. I just got kind of sick of it. You know, I got kind of sick of this weird jumping through hoops and no, that's not important. This isn't important. Your experience doesn't mean anything here. And I just thought, you know what, this has turned into a big corporate machine. You know, I'm sounding like some kind of like edgy teenager. But, it really is kind of that, you know, and it is quite distressing. Not to say there isn't, you know, I think there's some amazing journalism going on within these, a lot of these publications.

I just think it could be a lot better and I think, well, not a lot better. I think there could be a lot more really good journalism going on. I think this problem where like, you know, Trump tweets, everybody starts, you know, crying their eyes out, oh my God, look at this, look what he said. That to me, I just think this is just so ridiculous. Like the guy's an idiot, sure, whatever, but like, come on, like, we really, that shouldn't be rising to the surface in my opinion. That should be the lower kind of stuff you read to just be like, oh, this is funny, whatever. Instead, it seems to be, you know, like this salute thing with North Korea. Like, it was, it was insane, but we already know the guy is absolutely off his nut. Like, the guy is not a normal guy. And then the fact that

everybody's, to be, I watched it and he's probably, he's like gone to shake the hand. He's not really judged it very well. And he's gone, oh, whoops. And just like, salute. Insane to do that to North Korea. But like, come on. Like, move along. Like next. Hurry up. You know. And that, I think that kind of stuff, the fact that that gets so much attention now is incredible. incredibly depressing when, you know, there were kids dying all across the world. There were wars going on that nobody talks about. So for me, I thought maybe independence is the only way forward. And I think perhaps like two years ago, the only people that were like really going,

yeah, I'm independent were like kind of lunatics, you know, like you get some random weird English guy running around the Dombas in Ukraine trying to get money for some absolute rubbish that he'd said about, you know, Ukraine or the Russians. But now I think more and more people, you know, certainly amongst, you know, very respected journalists that I'm friends with or talk with are agreeing like there's got to be another way you know and maybe it's this where would you go if you could cover one conflict right now what's the one thing that you don't think nobody's talking about that they should be well it's funny you say this because I'm actually in talks at the moment um with a really good publisher if it works

out about writing a book which will basically basically the premises the wars you don't see in the news so I've you know I picked like 10 conflicts I would go to and there are so many I couldn't pick one but I think right now the Anglophone fighting. So there's like, you know, English-speaking separatists, waging a war in Cameroon. And that's got so serious now that the government today just announced that he might have to, or he wants to postpone elections for a year.

Kashmir, you know, I think I read the other day that they haven't had so many young men joining militant groups in Kashmir for 10 years. Like it's, you know, it's really on the rise. I think Rajava, like northern Syria, I think it's really important to still be reporting there. The fact that a NATO-backed fighting, force that US have said is such a great fighting force is now getting attacked by a NATO army

with Turkey and Afrin. And then you've got like this fact they're still fighting and Derazoor fighting ISIS and everybody's like, yeah, ISIS is over. Definitely not Libya. Like, you know, there's like anarchy and the Maghreb. You know, it's insane. People seem to have just forgot that that's all still going on. So yeah, there's just so many ongoing like things that I think for me it's like, okay, I get it. A commissioners like, that's not news right now, which is fine. you know, I understand that. However, I do think the way that these things could overspill is really serious, you know, like, for example, if you look at Nagorno-Karabak, that weird little separatist conflict that's been frozen for however long, between Armenia and Azerbaijan, like, the soon as that

kicks off, like 2016, it kicked off for four days, immediately Turkey backed up Azerbaijan. Russia was really worried because they're selling weapons to Azerbaijan. They've got a base in Armenia, kind of Iran kind of quietly nodded to Armenia that they'll be on their side or whatever, you know, like it does bring in everybody else. And I think that's a really interesting concept, especially with, you know, the way we are so connected now around the world, with technology and whatever. Wars are exactly the same, you know.

You know, some might argue that that's exactly how World War I started, right? Yeah. I mean, well, well, I mean, if you look at Rajava, for example, you could say, well, you've got Russia fighting around there. You know, there was that report where Russian-backed mercenaries, the Wagner, the Wagner mercenary group, actually attacked U.S. special forces. you know, Russia are fighting on behalf of Assad or like backing him up essentially. You've got Turkey

have, you know, basically invaded Syria in the north and Afrin. They've attacked what the coalition says is their best fighting force on the ground in terms of fighting ISIS. So what, you know, and you've got France as well, like bombing, you've got all the countries in one spot. And it's like if they all fall out, you know, it's going to be a problem. And I think they're actually, you know, it's not going to be World War III. But I do think that it creates massive, tension and riffs with, you know, diplomacy everywhere. And what I find quite interesting is that, you know, some guy running around with like stick stones and like, like machine gun can actually influence massive decisions that are made in the White House or Brussels or wherever because,

you know, these militias end up kind of being backed by a side here and there. Do you pay attention to any of the conflicts in Africa? I'm not talking about the McRab, but like, you know, Central Africa, Southern Africa. Yeah, so for my book, if I ever get the chance to make it, I mean, no, my luck, I won't. But if I ever get the chance to do it, I wanted to go to the Congo because, like, it's, you know, it's just crazy out there right now. I think I read there was two million children are at risk of starving because there's, there's not just one conflict there now. There's, like, I think there was four or five pockets of conflict that are just displacing everybody. They've got an Ebola outbreak now and they're having to stop people escaping the hospital.

It's just crazy, you know. and it's one, I think, you know, it's very cliche, but people say it should be one of the richest countries on, on earth because of their resources. Yeah, it's kind of like this apocalyptic kind of country instead, just because of various things, but, you know, meddling, this, that and the other, all of its resources getting taken. And now just seems to be like this silent and forgotten forever war just going on in the middle of Africa, you know. And also I'd like to do the Niger Delta Avengers which I think are fascinating. They're like this this kind of rogue group in the Niger Delta who blow up oil company pumping operations because they're saying you guys need to give us 60%

of the money because this is our this is our land which you know kind of fair you know you don't just turn up and start stealing the resources without paying for it. So they've said look you give it to us and they actually they were so effective because they're all former engineers and stuff like that they were so effective that I think in 2020. 2016 they affected 40% of Nigeria's oil wealth. Like the amount they would have made from doing it. So I think, again, tiny little group can affect things in a massive way. And in terms of Africa, the saddest thing about Africa is like,

I just feel like no one cares. Like people do care, obviously. But like trying to get a story pitched about Africa is a nightmare, man. I think it's the only like place where there's a lot of conflict that I've just never been to, just because I've never managed to convince anyone to send me, you know. My own experience as an editor at Reuters, which I did for a couple of years. Just looking at it from a numbers standpoint, virtually anything that you cover in Africa, it's really hard to find the audience.

That's not defending the decision that's being made to avoid coverage, but it is really interesting. I mean... Strange, isn't it? It is. It really is. It's like when you do a story about Africa, it's almost like throwing it into a black hole. once you send it out. But of course, I'm looking at it from... Yeah, gunshot goes off in Jerusalem and everybody's on it.

It's weird. Sorry. Yeah, it really is. No, no, no. I was just thinking like it is. I don't know. You know, someone far smarter than I could probably, you know, work out why it is. But I've never been able to work out why that is.

But I have a theory that part of it is like the way it's told perhaps, you know, I think there's a big problem with, like, for example, like the other day I was watching, you know, and I love what the BBC News, I think they do some. really good stuff. But I watched something. I forget what it was. And I thought, this is really interesting, yet somehow it's boring to watch. And I was like, that's a real task. Like, you really managed to make a really interesting topic, incredibly boring. And I think that's a problem. Like, a lot of people have not, like, it's just ridiculous, you know what I mean? And they say, oh yeah, well, like, Vice News, how you guys used to do it. Like, it's so self-indulgent. You know,

there is some weight to that argument. But also, you have to recognize, like, you know, young people have grown up in a different kind of era and if you want to catch their eye and get them interested, you might have to change things slightly, you know, and just because some kind of, you know, absolute mug sipping champagne in some kind of foreign correspondence club doesn't like it, so what? Like, that's a really important thing to do is just keep moving on. And I think sometimes journalists can be their biggest enemy, you know, I'm certainly my own worst than even even if I'm saying this all the time, you know, people get pissed off from me. But I think there can be their own worst enemy by putting up all these kind of boundaries like, no, we don't do this,

we don't do that. And obviously you always adhere to very strict, you know, journalistic ethics. But when it comes to certain style and stuff like that, you need to get with the program sometimes to stop being so stuffy, you know, because otherwise people are not going to like it. Like with my podcast popular front, you know, I've top and tailed it each week with different music. And most of it's like vapor wave kind of music. Now, that might seem really weird to, I don't know, some guy might think that's really odd to have a conflict, you know, podcast. But actually, that ties very well into the kind of cult. of, you know, young people tracking these conflicts

are very involved in all of that stuff. And I just thought it was cool. Like, that was it. I thought it was cool. And a lot of other people was like, yeah, it works. So, I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying I'm the guy, like, I'm the guy that's worked to allow out.

I just wish there was a bit more room within what we're all doing here to have a bit more experimentation and maybe take a few more risks, you know? You know, stories, I think, need context and characters. And when we write about Africa, we often leave both of those things behind. So I think like the one, the one conflict story about Africa that's, that's actually hit in the West in the past 10 years,

was Joseph Coney. Yes. And that was he, because he was a character. And the, like the context around what he was doing was so horrifying and clear that people paid attention to that, at least for a few months.

That's really true. Yeah, that's really true, actually. Yeah, I didn't think about that. I think it kind of gave like white neoliberals a kind of doctor evil in Africa to hate and feel better for clicking something about. I think honestly, that's why I think that got so much traction. People think, oh yeah, I hate this guy too. So, you know, therefore I've done something. Not really. But I think you're right.

And I think maybe the problem with Africa is that people just, people, people see Africa as a country. So you know what I mean? Still, it's like, what, Congo, CIA. Like, it's like, mate, it's not, it's a continent. And there's so many different aspects. And I think, you know, and that's not the consumer's fault all the time. People have got jobs. They're working hard.

They haven't got time to sit down and read the things we read all the time. I think it's up to us to say, no, we'll make it in a way so you can understand it and enjoy it. You know, there's too much of this in journalism. It's like, oh, people are stupid. Or they don't want to listen to it. Or they don't want to know. People don't want to know. People do want to know.

But they don't have the time, you know. They don't have the time and energy that we have for this. So therefore, we should make it not dumb it down at a time. all. I think the opposite. I think make it really detailed so they get really interested in it, you know. But daily news and like, you know, sorry, like kind of breaking news and that, it's just impossible to do, you know, like Vice News have tried to do it with the HBO show, you know, and think what you want about. I mean, you know, there's some great pieces still coming out, but I think it's just a very hard thing to do, you know.

One thing that's occurred to me about Africa, and I know we don't usually talk that much ourselves, Matt and me during the show, just one of the reasons why this one's different, kind of what we do for a living, as opposed to just asking people about what they do. No, no, sure. No, I definitely want to hear your guys insight on it. One thought I have is that, like parts of the Middle East, we have no idea that there's normal life going on in Africa.

So whenever you see something that you think is just completely business as normal, it's very hard to make it interesting. So if you think that that's all that happens in Africa, then, you know, if 500 people have their eyes gouged out, then you're saying, yeah, it's Africa. That's what happens in Africa. Yeah. It's the same thing in India when you have a train crash and 500 people die, you know,

because of a train accident. You're like, yeah, wasn't thinking about taking the train in India. Do you know what I mean? And it's really hard to fight that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we don't report on a lot of like, you know, Chinese infrastructure projects that are happening. in Africa, right?

Like positive stuff or just normal stuff. Yeah, exactly. But there's some truth to it as well, though. Like, I get what you're saying, but like, I don't know. Sometimes I've heard this before, like, oh, we should do this positive thing. We should do this positive thing. It's like, well, am I going to go to the war zone where young people or whoever, young, old, whatever, where people are dying and being killed in atrocious ways and then go, oh, let me film that guy over there who's selling some trinkets for an hour and make a story about him. Like, you know, I'm not. And it's like you're going to report on that.

So there's the dilemma. Like you're right, definitely. You're definitely right. But I think sometimes this level of violence has become normal out there because it is just, you know, so much chaos going on due to, again, like mostly outside influences, I think. But yeah, I don't know. How do you even combat that? That's a really interesting thing that people are just like, oh, yeah, that happens there.

It's sad, really sad. you think we all fall especially with Africa we all fall subject to kind of O Deerism you know we just look at it and we shrug and we say oh dear yeah definitely that's a good way yeah

yeah that is a really good I'm going to use that yeah I'm stealing it from Adam Curtis oh really which one I think it's just it's a little short film that he's got just called Odeerism I love Adam Curtis oh he's wonderful yeah absolutely Yeah, he's great, man.

He's done some good stuff. Like, I watched the Century of the Self the other day again, like for first time in a while, like that four-hour one. And it's just scary when you see the kind of things he was basically predicting is happening now, you know, it's mad. Yeah, he's wonderful. But I could talk about Adam Curtis all day. Yeah, yeah.

Let me ask you again about Popular Front. So I was listening to this episode right before we jumped on. This is my favorite one of you've done so far, is about the American militia. Yes. And one of the things I thought was really interesting in there was discussing the way that movement is kind of fracturing. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, so I spoke to a guy called Hampton Stall and he runs a little site, like a little medium site called Militia Watch.

And he just kind of keeps tabs and tracks these movements. You know, it doesn't get paid for it or anything like that. And he's exactly the sort of person that I want on the show. Because often you'll see CNN, we've got some expert. But, you know, I saw something about an expert on Christian militias in the Middle East. And there's a guy, you know, I know called Hans on Twitter, who knows everything about them. And it's like, this guy on CNN, he shouldn't be there. It should be this weird guy that I know on Twitter should be there.

So that's why I wanted to give these people this kind of platform, whatever you want to call it. But yeah, so Hampton was talking about kind of this weird fracturing of the militias. And I think the funniest thing about it was that, like, they all used to be real libertarian. you know when Obama was in was in power and oh you know Obama's trying to bring on this police state and as soon as Trump got in office they're like yeah we love him you know and it's like all that libertarianism has fallen away and I think it's quite obvious what that so-called libertarianism actually was now some of them are still kind of you know anti-state and all this sort of stuff but because they now have a guy that essentially they quite like in the white house and are turning up and protecting you know there was one instance where I think they were kind of

shielding ICE officers from some kind of like protest. I mean, the ICE officers haven't asked them to go, but they just go anyway. And that's really, really a reversal of roles, you know, considering they were meant to be libertarian militias, most of them. So now they're fracturing and you've got all these weird internal fights and you've got, like there's a big group called the Oathkeepers, but then each state has its own version, you know, so you could be, I don't know, whatever, like the Flechtar militia in Georgia and be still an Oathkeeper, you know, under the umbrella of the Oathkeepers.

So that has obviously led to like loads of people just fighting and like boomer generation just having it out over Facebook about who's AR-15 is this, that and it are like. It's kind of tragic in a way and quite funny. But like, I don't know. You know, there are loads of these guys out of these militias with weapons armed really well, very well trained a lot of them. And a lot of it I think I kind of feel not sad for them in a way. Like, you know, there's nothing to, I'm not like laughing at them. but, you know, a lot of these guys have just got nothing to really do, I think, and they're like, we want some kind of fraternity together.

So I think that's why a lot of them join it. And unfortunately, it gets over politicised. And unfortunately, a lot of that turns up in this weird kind of right, left madness that's going on in America right now. But that, I think, could really blow up because, for example, Hampton spoke quite a lot about Charlottesville. and you know you had right you had right wing militias there who looked like the police you know who looked like they had so much kit on you couldn't tell who was police who was militia and there is also in existence they don't do much but there are now left-wing militias some of them are some of them are even like some of them like mawis like it's weird but you have

them and me and hampton were saying like if these two groups turn up and one shot goes off against the other side you don't even know what could happen now I mean, I don't know, you know, as a Brit looking from the outside, and I just think that's insane that that could happen. But I don't know. I'm sure there are a lot of, like, gun lovers, you know, in the US would, you know, call me some kind of snowflake, whatever it is they say. But, you know, and not that I'm even, like, I'm not saying, oh, I'm anti-gun,

no one should have the guns. I'm not, like, I'm not one of them guys at all. But it just seems insane that all of these groups are running around America and, you know, forming these militias and actually doing stuff. for example, they have like border patrols in Mexico, some of them. I think Mother Jones did a piece where it showed that the police were colluding with them. And that's not right. That just doesn't seem right to me.

Well, I just want to say that as an American, I'm offended in every way. And more importantly, what about all your football fans, man? Isn't that exactly the same thing? You know? Well, win, you know. man united in his Manchester city I mean man Margaret Fatcher

destroyed football hooliganism I think football hooliganism I don't even like football I don't care about it but I think it wasn't actually a bad thing again in the in the aspect of loads of young men want to get they want to get together and they want to fight each other in private like let them do it let them do it

because you know young men have to have an outlet no matter how much this kind of political want to make us all the same we're not all the same know, and young angry young men, especially feel disenfranchised, do mad things. But yeah, I dare say, like, any of our football hooligans, if they came up against your militias, I reckon our guys would do you all, I reckon, yeah.

Can you tell us, what else do you have coming up on popular front? What else is some of the other shows? So I want to do an episode about the IRA in, you know, the Irish Republican Army in Northern Ireland because people think that it's all gone, it's all gone away, you know, in the, I think it was Jerry Adams who said, you know, they haven't gone away, you know, they really haven't, you know, like obviously there isn't the popular support that there was and people want to move on.

However, Brexit has really kind of pulled up a lot of that, you know, they brought up some rifts because if a hard border does go in, you know, and if it has one poll on it, you know, one toll, sorry, on it, and it gets attacked, they're going to have to put a police, there to guard it and then if the policeman gets attacked you're going to have to have the army there and before you know it you've got another war going on you know what i mean and there was a new group now called the new IRA now a lot of people are laughing at them because there are so many different iterations of the IRA you've got provisional IRA which you know the original guys well not the original

but the guys that were fighting throughout the troubles and then you had the splinter groups the real IRA and then you had the continuity IRA and then it became a joke actually in northern Island where they were like, I can't believe it's not the IRA, you know, like for anything that happened. But now this new IRA, they are actually, I think the PSNI, the police force of Northern Ireland, have said, like, this is a big threat. I think they said the threat was severe and they expect, you know, attacks. They've killed a police officer already. Bombs go off quite regularly still in Northern Ireland, or at least someone gets caught with one. Punishment shootings are up 60%. And that is basically where, you know, generally former militants

or like current IRA men turn up and say, look, there's a drug dealer here. They drop a letter, literally sometimes drop a letter to his house and say, turn up at this time in the park, we're going to shoot you in the legs. And then you can, you know, stop it, basically. It's kind of a madness, and I feel like that's really not documented enough. So I'm going to get a guy on to talk all about, yeah, all about that. I want to do an episode about Mexico because I've heard that I don't know anything about Mexico and I've heard the gangs there are like, have been waging war again.

you know the cartels rather have been kind of waging war again and have moved on to almost like moving around like militias and I saw some footage where I thought it was like a division of the Mexican army and it turns out it was some cartel and I was like wow this is this is insane I want to do Ukraine you know that's another thing I think everybody's forgot about I think the Ukraine thing like the episode I'll do is um arms dealing in Ukraine which is actually you know all the time they're finding incredible amounts you know massive massive cases of weapons just just just being dealt. So yeah, I think there's going to be a lot of stuff going on. I think it's going to be hopefully, you know, it will carry on with the pace it's going because people seem to really like it. I think it's, it just is what it is. It's just like a fun little podcast. Like if you're a little kind of geek and into war like I am and like I'm sure you guys are, you know, and all that stuff, I think you'll like it because it's just, yeah, it's just information that you won't get, I think, anywhere else. And to be honest, it's kind of, I'll be honest, the way popular front is in a way inspired by war college and Belling Cap. So, you know,

know Bellingat, the open source researchers, because they do so much in detail stuff. And it's kind of like, I think them two things have really inspired me quite a lot to do it. And Twitter as well, like people on Twitter have kind of just posting up cool stuff. Where can people find the show? So if you go to, so my website, it'll be at jakehanahan.com slash popular front. That's kind of just like a landing page for it. You'll find the episodes. But if you search on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts, it's everywhere now.

So you just search Popular Front and it will be there and subscribe. If you like it, have a look at the Patreon. We've got Patreon.com slash Popular Front. My main motivation with that is to just kind of be able to pay a sound guy because I'm like using Garage Band to do it and it doesn't sound very good. So if I can get that going, that would be cool. But yeah, it's going okay. So that's where you can find it.

It's a very good show. And if listeners, if you like our show, you should definitely be listening to Popular Front. And Jake, thank you so much for coming on and talking to us about it. Thanks for listening to this week's show. If you enjoyed it, tell your friends. All of your friends. One of the best ways to do that is to post a review on iTunes,

or wherever you get this podcast. P.B. Morningstar did. And here's what they had to say. Be the smartest person in the room. Listen to this podcast. Five stars. Truly informative. Thank you, P.B. Morningstar.

We're thinking about making transcripts of the show available, but we want to know what you think. Tell us on our Facebook page, Facebook.com slash War College podcast. War College is me, Jason Fields, and Matthew Galt. We'll be back next week.