Animal Spirits Podcast - A Random Watch Down Wall Street: Boiler Room

Episode Date: December 9, 2019

On this episode Michael and Ben rewatch the Wall Street classic, Boiler Room to discuss how things have changed in the industry since 2000, early Microsoft millionaires, cold-calling stock pitches and much more. Find complete shownotes on our blogs... Ben Carlson’s A Wealth of Common Sense Michael Batnick’s The Irrelevant Investor Like us on Facebook And feel free to shoot us an email at [e-mail] with any feedback, questions, recommendations, or ideas for future topics of conversation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Animal Spirits, a show about markets, life, and investing. Join Michael Batnik and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading, writing, and watching. Michael Battenick and Ben Carlson work for Ritt Holt's Wealth Management. All opinions expressed by Michael and Ben or any podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of Ritt Holt's Wealth Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for investment decisions. Clients of Rithold's wealth management may maintain position. and the securities discussed in this podcast.

Welcome to Animal Spirits with Michael and Ben. A couple weeks ago, we were having a discussion about the best finance movies on Twitter, as we are want to do. I'm sure that one's come up thousands of times at this point. But Michael Antenali had a good idea, and we listed the best 10 finance movies or so. There's probably not any more than that. And he said, why don't you guys rewatch some of the best movies and give a sort of finance person's review on them because hang on i don't remember this conversation okay that's where this

sprung from we're sure about that how did this play out in your mind i don't remember but i don't remember this is this a figment of your imagination maybe it's better that you weren't involved in this canoe so oh it was on twitter yes it was on twitter oh i thought you and i were having a conversation okay proceed keep up and so we listed a few off and we thought it would be good idea because i think a lot of the times a lot of these finance movies are unrealistic, but I think normal people who aren't in the finance world maybe assume this is the way that things actually work. So I think having people in the finance world kind of dissect these and talk about what's realistic, what's not. So Michael and I decided to watch boiler room for our first one. And so we're

going to give a little review of it, walk through some of the realistic stuff, the unrealistic stuff, some of the best quotes, best scenes. And so this is going to be, we're calling this a random watch down Wall Street, right? That's right. That's a good plan on words there. Thank you. So Boiler Room came out January 1st or second of 2000, which was just perfect timing for this movie about just the huge greed and lust and everything that was going on in the 90s.

The timing was perfect. Here's what I got for your Rotten Tomatoes. 66% from the, how do you say it? Tomotter, Tomatoer. Tomato meter. Tomato meter. Tomato meter. That's like the critics and then 78% from the audience. IMDB gave it a 7 out of 10. I'd say that's pretty fair. What do you think?

I'd give it a 60. Okay. So it was on a $7 million budget, made $28 million worldwide. So this was a pretty, this was almost like, I guess, an independent movie in a lot of ways. Yeah. I mean, if you asked me my opinion of this movie 10 years ago, if somebody just said, hey, you ever see boiler room? I was like, yeah, great movie. Somebody asked me, you ever see boiler him today? I say, yeah, yeah, I saw it. We'll get into it. There's some stuff that didn't age well. Okay. So the intro, Giovanni Rubisi plays this guy who's a hustler in college and he runs his own casino and he's giving the intro. And in the intro, he says Microsoft

produced more millionaire secretaries than anyone in the world. There's a picture of a groundskeeper next to his Ferrari in the piece. And so I decided to look this up because this sounds like an interesting story. I couldn't find anything that listed the secretary, but here's what I did find. This is from 1992, a New York Times profile, talked about Microsoft's unlikely millionaires. Out of the 11,000 employees they had at Microsoft, at least 2,200 of them were worth at least a million dollars. And as many as a third of them, so it's like one in five. As many as a third of those people were worth at least $3 million, which is pretty crazy. Well, a million dollars in 92.

So here's the other crazy one. Bill Gates allowed many of the employees to buy stock in the company for a dollar a share. And that was like a year before it went public. When it did go public in March 1986, it was priced at close to $26 a share. A year later, it hit 90. So this is in 1992 that I'm reading this story. Since then, Microsoft is up over 8,000% versus about 1,000% for the S&P. So had those people held on till now, they did almost as good as the people who put 10 grand in the Amazon IPO.

Remarkable. So you just wonder how many of those people cashed out. and at the time or stuck around. And it sounds like they're all mostly middling engineers, pretty young people in their 30s. And even Gates was pretty young at that point. But the Microsoft Millionaire thing, they were basically saying they've never found a higher collection of millionaires before than in the early years of Microsoft. Do you think it's fair to be critical of a movie that came out nearly 20 years ago through the lens of today? In other words, are you trying to cancel this movie?

Well, I thought that this, I've seen this movie a dozen times. Yeah, I've seen it a lot of times, too. All right, let's get into this. Let's start with what's age best, then we'll go into what's aged worse. And you can kind of, I'm thinking we have some of the same qualms about this movie. Okay, what do you think is age the best for this movie? Why don't you start with that? Okay.

First of all, the soundtrack was amazing. I'm one of these people that thinks 90s rap is the greatest music of my lifetime. I think 90s rap to my generation is like rock and roll was to the 60s. And so this has a great New York late 90s rap. and actually, I read about it, they didn't actually create a soundtrack because they didn't have enough money to pay for it. So someone had to create one on Spotify, like a list of it. You know who aged the best? Who's that?

Give you two people. Ben Affleck? Yes. He looks much better today than he did back then. He was still had like a little baby fat, hadn't got his teeth done Hollywood style yet. Yeah, he did. So I'll tell you what age the worst. No, no, hang on.

I got a few other things for age the best. Go ahead. Okay. I thought what's aged the best is how they showed people using pressuring sales tactics. Yes. And so at the end, here's some of the lines that he used. Harry, this is the guy that he ends up screwing over for $50,000 out of his. So Boil Room is basically a movie about people who are still cold calling for.

I guess you could say that didn't age well since that is basically gone now. People are cold calling stock picks, which it still kind of boggles the mind that that ever happened. That this was a thing. and then this is what it was like forever and then all of a sudden it just went away about just in the snap of a finger basically? Well, they still exist. Okay, you think people still do this. I know somebody that worked for a boiler room as recently as 2016. Seriously. I would not have guessed that. They're still around. I know somebody's father that got busted recently. Do they call people cell phones? I guess there are people with landlines still. So he calls up this

guy, Harry. He says, are you playing the market right now, which I think is a great way to phrase it for people who don't really invest. And he talks about how he'd like to start with a relatively small investment. That's like the Robert CLDini thing where you get your foot in the door theory. Let me prove it to you. Yes. So I thought like some of the sales tactics they used in this book were really great. He said he has to call up thousands of his clients that same day to talk about the opportunity. And Faratech. Yes. And he talks about how it's going to put his kids through college. So I thought that sort of stuff really aged well. The other one was, wait, can I just piggyback on what you just said? Yeah. By the way, so Faratech, it's always biotech. It's always biotech.

Stocks, right? Yes, because they have the best story attached to them and they have a catalyst. They pitched a company that made removable medical syringes. So that was kind of before Elizabeth Holmes time. Yes. At one point, so Harry bought Faratech and the stock went down and then Seth explained to Harry the concept of dollar cost averaging. Yes, I love that. If you loved it at eight, you've got to love it at four. Yeah. All right. What else? I thought it was pretty good. They didn't really paint this in the best light, but they said, we do not sell to women with the assumption that women are much smarter at finding these things out than men. So it was like, don't tell your wife. Well, he said don't pitch the bitch. And you think that age as well?

Not necessarily how they portrayed it, but just the idea that women are smarter about these things than men kind of has the same idea that we've talked about where women are better investors than men. Yes. So obviously, a lot of the stuff that didn't age well, this movie, a lot of the jokes in this movie would not fly today and they would never make it to the screen. Well, so let me ask you a question. I did not remember it being so. overtly racist and homophobic and anti-Semitic and all of those sort of things. But isn't that the point that these were portraying horrible people who actually spoke this way? Yes.

In other words, Wolf of Wall Street was made. And that was pretty out there in terms of... Oh, yeah. They were trying to show that these guys were scumbags. I think if they did it again today, they would make it in a different light and some of the stuff sounds harsh today. But I thought the same thing when I rewatch Soprano. Some of the stuff that Tony Soprano said in that would never fly today.

So it's crazy how quickly this has changed. But I think they were just trying to get across the idea that these guys are really scumbags and they will do anything to make a dollar, which is basically what it was. So we've talked a lot lately about the fact that pricing is gone to zero and commissions are nothing now. They were talking about giving $2 rips. So they were charging $2 per share to sell these stocks. And they said that at the time, I don't know if they made this up, but they said at SEC regulation state that the maximum rip,

is 5% of the sale. And they were talking about how they were making four times that. So they were charging 20% a sale for stock. And that's how they're making their money. So this was a little bit late in terms of bringing people in. But do you think that this inspired a whole wave of young debags to enter the industry? That's a good question. I agree that this is probably late, which is kind of surprising that the Wolf of Wall Street didn't come out earlier than it did. You almost thought that movie would have come out earlier because in a few of the things I looked at, they said this was obviously based on Jordan Belfort in not so many ways. Well, two things.

One, I think that this 100% put the Series 7 on a pedestal. I mean, they spoke a lot about that exam, which is not difficult to pass. In terms of the sales pitch, at one point, Greg, who is the bad guy, not surprisingly the bad guy is played by a Jewish guy, and the Jewish thing came up often, which I did not appreciate Ben, I got to tell you. So Greg said to Seth, who is the main character. Greg goes, I've got a friend who has the rebuttal book. Obviously, that was Jordan Belfort.

Right. Oh, okay, I didn't even think about that. This was based on it. I actually liked this movie better than The Wolf of Wall Street. I thought it was a little more... Whoa. Oh, really? No?

I thought this is pretty crappy. Here's the... On the rewatch, so I watched it with Robin. And again, we've each seen this multiple times. I don't think we've seen it in 10 years. And we were like laughing at it. We were laughing. Yeah, there are some parts. Here's the reason I like this better. I thought the Wolf of Wall Street just, they were telling a true story, quote-unquote true Jordan Belfort story. I just thought that guy is such a scumbag and they never really thought about the people that he was screwing out of their money. It was never even really brought up that much. In this, they show the other side of it, like him hurting. Maybe I just like a movie that ties it up in a bow and you hurt someone and then you help them. And so I think that's why I liked it where as the Wolf of Wall Street was just three hours of debauching.

and then there's no clear lesson. It's just, yeah, these are terrible people and a lot of people got screwed out of their money and that's it. When Harry answers the phone, I turned to rob and I was like, oh, this poor schmuck. Yes. Yeah, so they do a good job. I thought that guy was pretty good portraying that. All right, let's keep moving on. What do we got? What else aged the worst? You know what I thought? I don't know if this is necessarily age bad. I just thought this was the FBI agents were terrible. Yeah, they said they spent $7 million in this movie. So obviously it's something like Wolf of Wall Street. The acting and the budget is way better. I gave them a pass because this was like in the 2000s independent movie.

How about this? How about the very last scene when the FBI is raiding the place and there's like literally prison buses? Yes, that was a little over the top. School buses for prison, ready to take everybody to jail. If that was real life, they would all get away with a slap on the wrist and then they'd come out and start their own hedge fund when they got out of jail. All right. Most unrealistic scene. I think by far the most unrealistic part of this movie was the fact that Nealong as the secretary would

hit on Seth, who was played by Giovanni Rubisi. That's a great call that. She was way out of his league, way out of his league. That whole thing was so awkward. How did it even develop? It happened so quickly. Why did she take to him out of all the trainees? Well, why would she even go with a trainee?

You'd think she'd go with one of the guys who's got $8 million. Yeah, in a Ferrari. That whole thing, that was very weird. This is nitpicking, but how did his dad get the poker chips? Oh, that's a good point. Yes. So Seth originally started off running a casino. and then he quit that to become a broker.

I thought one of the funnier lines of the movie was the fact that he said running the casino was the only legitimate business he'd ever done because he actually looked his customer in the eye and provided a service they wanted, whereas being a broker, he was lying to them, pushing the stuff they didn't want. I thought that was pretty interesting. Here's the other part that was not realistic at all in terms of finance. They were out of the bar and a bunch of brokers from JP Morgan came up and tried to start a fight with him.

That was great. I'm sorry, I can't picture the guys from JP Morgan. And also, Vin Diesel was in the group. I'm not picking a fight with Vin Diesel. There. Good point. Or a bunch of brokers from a Long Island who probably just lived the weights all day. Yeah, that's good point. Who was your favorite character? I thought Vin Diesel was better in a regular role than I thought he'd be.

He's not giving like one liners from Fast and the Furious. I thought he was surprisingly good. Scott Khan, I thought was. Who's that? He's James Conn's son. He's got the big hair. Oh. We've gotten a fight. That's James Con. So he played. He always plays himself. Yes, he basically plays himself. I thought this was kind of interesting corollary because he played the varsity Blues wide receiver. and Varsity Blues was to Friday Night Lights as Boiler Room is to Wolf of Wall Street.

Okay, that's good. So he was in both of those. But, I mean, the best character by far is Ben Affleck. It's not even close, right? Okay. Yep. Well, I have Ben Affleck for something else. I think my favorite character was the father.

Okay, he was good. Yeah, he's probably the best actor in the movie. By the way. Yeah. Do you know what Vin Diesel's real name is? I have no idea. I can't believe he changed it. Mark Sinclair.

Okay. Worst acting, to me, this was not even close. Jamie Kennedy was terrible. Okay, I said that too. I said Jamie Kennedy trying to be a tough guy didn't really fly. You know what else was not that great is the guy who was the head of J.T. Marlin. Did you ever see the movie Dead Man on campus in the 90s? Maybe. I know what you're talking about. Okay. He needed to be a little more of like a killer type of guy than he was a little more reserved than I thought he'd be for someone running a brokerage firm. Oh, here's another thing that didn't really age well. They had a whole other building because they knew. it's possible they're going to get shut down for... I didn't get that. Well, I'm just saying there's no way you can shut down a whole business

and start a new one without someone being able to track you or find you, right? None of that made sense to me. I literally didn't understand the purpose of that building. It was so they could close up the one shop if the heat got too hot in the kitchen or whatever and then they'd move to the other one. But the building was next door. Yeah, I know. It was 10 feet away.

All right. I think we're going to agree on this, the best scene. I suspect we have the same one. Go for it. The Ben Affleck speech. Yeah. It's an all-timer. It's pretty good.

Here's my top two Ben Affleck scenes that came to mind. This speech where he gives the trainees a speech and then his interview in Goodwill Hunting, where he pretends to be Matt Damon's character and he wears the blue suit. I think those are Aflack. Back then, he was doing. Yeah. Affleck. Yeah.

Sorry, that's my Michigan accent coming out. I mean, you could go through and watch the whole thing. It's like five minutes long. But anyone who tells you money is a root of evil doesn't fucking have any. And he pulls out his Ferrari keys. And he throws it across the table. What's up? Yes.

They say money can't buy happiness. Look at the fucking smile on my face. Here to ear, baby. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari. 355 cabriole. What's up?

I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every tour you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. By the way, he says he's got a big house in South Fork. Is that a nice area? Yes. Or was it then? Okay.

It was an all-time or Affleck speech, but it's kind of funny because back then he was doing a lot of the Kevin Smith movies, like Mall Rats and Chasing Amy. And he kind of played, that's kind of the character he played. He was like a tough guy. Yes. He was jerk. But yeah, you're right. He didn't really look Hollywood back then.

And he was, he still kind of had some baby fat. So I thought he was just perfect. I also liked the scene where they quoted Wall Street. They're watching, they're pre-gaming at, you didn't like that one? That's my worst scene. I don't know, but that seemed realistic to me. A bunch of guys sitting around pre-gaming, quoting Wall Street. I could see a bunch of brokers doing that.

I thought it was so cringy. That's one of the scenes where Rob and I were cracking up. Because not only are they quoting it, they're doing it in unison, and then they take turns and they stand up and they act it out. It was weird, but can you see? I read a story a few years ago, Wall Street creator Oliver Stone, basically said he thought that movie was going to show people this is not what you want to do. And then it was the opposite where people loved that movie.

and decided that they wanted to go into Wall Street because they mythologized Gordon Gecko. So I actually just thought that that was kind of realistic. So what was your worst scene? The worst scene? Probably the one where, and this is, why don't we go to our award for overacting?

Because this is my worst scene. All right. So the Anthony Pompliano Award for overacting, I have at the very end where they're in the stairwell. And Seth tells, actually, maybe it's Seth when he starts crying to his dad. Who gives a shit? Because I'm good at what I do, Dad.

I'm good at what I do. That's what I said. When he started crying to his dad about how he fell off his bike and then his dad slapped him in the face. So I have when Vin Diesel is like screaming like, fuck Greg, what did you do? And he's like banging the wall. Like that was. But hey, once their chop shop finally went under,

he helped out the guy that he stole his money from. But isn't it just crazy how back then when you're cold calling? So they also said that they used to cold call like a good day would be. 700 cold calls a day. And you could just basically say anything on the phone because this is pre-internet of being able to look stuff up. They just created a name. J.T. Marlin was the name the company. It was like J.P. Morgan just try to get people to, isn't it crazy that people could just call on the phone and everyone pretended that they were a vice president or that they were the son of the founder of the firm or something, that you could just do whatever you want on

the phone and people wouldn't really question. He called a doctor up at a doctor's office to pitch him a stock. It just boggled my mind that that was the way that things used to get done. in terms of buying stock. Yes. You know who could have worked in this movie? What was a, what's Gary Busey's son name? Oh, Jake Busey. Yeah, he would have been a good broker.

Right? Yes. That's a good point. Well, how do you think that they portrayed people from Long Island, though? Oh, nailed it. You think it was pretty good? Nailed it, yeah. Okay.

I thought they were the tough guys at the bar. Hold on, hold on. This is not everybody from Long Island. However, this nailed those type of guys. Those type of guys. That's what I thought. And these guys, when they were, washed out of the brokerage industry were the same people that did mortgages in 0, 4, 5, 6.

And now, and now it's like the payday loan stuff. Now they're selling loans to people charging 45% interest rates. Okay. So if this movie was made today, you think payday loans? That's 100% what it is. Oh, really? You don't think these guys get into crypto somehow? I guess.

No. I guess tough guys don't really get into crypto, do they? No, it's a payday loans. Payday loans. Okay. That makes sense. Okay. Here's a good review from Rotten Tomatoes I found in real time.

Surprisingly, the reviews were very good at the time. So again, I think that there's parts of this movie that didn't age well, but I think the overall theme and the timing, the fact that this came out in 2000, right at the end of the 90s, I thought that couldn't have been much more perfect in terms of encapsulating the greed of that era. So this is someone from the Detroit News, Susan Stark. You won't find a movie that taps more directly into the jugular of the greed fueled late 90s. Like how many other movies were there about the finance realm in the late 90s that came out? There really weren't that many that really talked about this stuff, even though it was sort of just right in everyone's face, how crazy things were. It never really happened. You know what's a weird scene? When Seth screams Reco and Vin Diesel comes running over and the entire building stops and stares and listens to the pitch, like, I don't understand why that was so significant that everybody stopped what they were doing to watch one person close a client if that's what they're doing all day. That was honest. So don't you get the idea that there probably are some people out there who think the world of finance operates like that? You just have a huge group of people hammering the phones all day. There's yelling. There's stuff about trading.

Don't you think people think that's the way it really works when it's just not true anymore? I don't think people think that. People think that it's like this loud atmosphere and there's people yelling trades and there's stuff going on and it's exciting. Whereas the real world, it's really pretty boring most of the time and quiet. And people are just kind of doing their own thing at a computer with eight monitors with their headphones on. There's a lot of people in the world. I'm sure some people think that. Okay. Geez. Just throwing it out there. All right.

Favorite quotes. Oh, my God. This is by far my favorite quote. Relationship. What the fuck are you talking about relationship? What are we dating? I'm not your girlfriend, Seth. I'm your father.

The dad wasn't very nice, was he? That makes me laugh every time I hear. It's just so cold. Here's one that was not necessarily a great line, but I think that when the writers wrote it, they were probably like high-fiving. Seth said, very strong work ethic. The problem was my ethics in work. They're probably like, yes. Nailed

that. I missed that. Okay. Here's the Affleck one from his speech. They say money can't buy happiness. Look at the fucking smile on my face. Ear to ear, baby. You want to hear details? I drive a Ferrari 355, Crabiolet. I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I've got every toy you can imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. There's no way he was liquid with all his toys either. Here's the thing that just, again, sort of boggles my mind about this. And this was in the Wall Street movie to the Wolf of Wall Street. Jordan Belfort said he made $50 million a year. How many people did they sell stocks to become millionaires?

My mind can't quite comprehend that all this money is made on commission. $2 a share. Do the math. Yeah, it's just, it's kind of crazy. And yeah, I just can't believe that much money was made on commissions. All right, three lines that were terrible. I forget who said this to Greg. Show him with 3% return and he'll trust you to watch his kids for the weekend.

3%. 3%. Yeah, but they were looking to show a return in like a week, basically. Okay. And you mentioned the pharmaceutical stuff. It is funny that when you think of stocks, people want something to happen now. So they want like the catalyst. Like I have the inside scoop on this drug that's going to go public and we're going to make a ton of money on it.

I still think some people think that's the way the stock market works. Yes, I agree with you there. So early on in the movie when Greg and Greg is the bad guy, the Jewish guy and Jamie Kennedy, I forget his character's name. When they knock on the door or when they're in the casino with Seth, Greg says, I got a wad that could choke a hippo. Okay. That was pretty weird. I kind of liked how he ran his own casino in college.

Can you imagine if you had friends who did that in college? That would be like the, I mean, I can't imagine it would ever fly at most places, but would that not be the most popular house on campus for most people? Yes, that would get shut down real quickly. And then lastly, I thought this is the worst line. Again, during that same scene, Seth said, I was making good money with the casino, but these guys were macing it hard. Yeah, there was some 90s lingo in there. I picked up on that didn't age well.

There was definitely some cheesy lines in this. I can't believe you like this scene when they were quoting Wall Street. I don't know. I just thought it was realistic because you know that that's exactly what those guys would have done. That's why I didn't like it, but I thought that it was realistic. All right, I pulled some IMDB trivia off this. I thought this was kind of great. Ben Affleck referred Matt Damon for the role of Seth Davis, which was played by Giovanni Rubisi,

the lead character. He backed out of it to work on the born identity. Pretty good tradeoff there. Good choice. Good choice. But if this movie has Matt Damon, isn't it five times better? I was just to say 10. Yeah. I mean, he's very believable for that role, I think. He would have been amazing in this. With better acting and a little bit better writing, this movie could have been a 10. Yes. If they redid this today, which obviously, they kind of did with the Wolf of Wall Street, which is, the Wolf of Wall Street is, I don't know, 10 times more over the top than this one.

They made it obviously kind of a different kind of movie. There also was an alternate ending where Harry is the guy that had a $50,000 saved up for his down payment on his house. He lost it all in the Faro Tech pharmaceutical company. His family left him, unfortunately. And so the alternative ending was he shows up at the boiler room armed with guns looking to get revenge. That was going to be the ending.

I'm sure he'd be tucked down. No, what I didn't understand. If Faratech was a bullshit company because they went to the offices and it didn't exist, how come, and I take a picture of this, how come Faratech was in the newspaper? Harry reads about it. Upstart Farot Tech plunges. After its first day of heavy trading, North Carolina-based Farot Tech fell sharply, blah, blah, blah. Why is this in the newspaper? That's a good question. Obviously, they fooled the news, too. Although it did fall 86% in a day, so maybe that's newsworthy. I think the idea was that people's research capabilities wasn't quite up to snuff. Here's another thing about the movie that I didn't understand. If all of these stocks were pump and dump, how would they possibly repeat customers? They said they did 700 calls a day. I don't know where they got the phone list from, but obviously they were calling different people over and over again. That's what you'd think you'd run out after a week of people to call, right?

I didn't understand that part. But when the stock plunged, they were going nuts in the office. Nobody's selling shares, but I don't know. It just fascinating to me that that sort of culture just came and went and it just kind of, don't you think it must. Obviously, it kind of trickled for some companies, but that culture just more or less died, right? Well, yeah, pretty much did. So I wonder if I never realized how ridiculous some of this movie was because I was, I don't know, 14 or 15 when I first saw it, or if it's because 2000 was a different era. But on the rewatch, this did not age the way I thought it would have. Like I said, I would have said, 10 years ago, you asked me how is Boilum?

I was at a great movie. You asked me how Boilums today, I would say kind of ridiculous. There's definitely some cringe-worthy parts, which I think you could probably say about a handful of movies from the 90s and 2000s, but yes. But I thought the way that they portrayed the idea of selling was really, obviously, they probably stole some of this stuff. And a lot of people were saying Ben Affleck's speech was kind of ripped off from the Glenross stuff. But I think for that sale stuff alone, they kind of nailed it. But yeah, there's a lot of stuff that didn't age very well. All right.

You got anything else? No, I just, I would be interested to hear what the finance movie of today. Because I thought they nailed the timing on this perfectly. A lot of times you get these movies so far after the fact. What is the finance movie of today if they made one? It's got to be a movie about Adam Newman. Yeah, you're right, with cousin Greg playing Adam Newman. Oh, perfect.

Yeah, perfect. Yep. Okay. I think next for the holidays, we kind of have to do if we can squeeze it in trading places because it's kind of a Christmas movie. All right, I'm done. If we can do that, send us an email, Animal Spiritspot at gmail.com. Let us know if there's any good finance movies you want us to watch.

And if you have any thoughts on some of the other stuff, we can talk about this. We'll talk to you later.