Animal Spirits Podcast - Talk Your Book: Money and Marriage

Episode Date: November 1, 2025

On this episode of Animal Spirits: Talk Your Book, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Michael Batnick⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠��⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ben Carlson⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ are joined by Doug and Heather Boneparth to talk about their new book, Money Together. This episode is brought to you by VanEck. Learn more about the VanEck Rare Earth and Strategic Metals ETF: ⁠http://vaneck.com/REMXCompound⁠ Find complete show notes on our blogs... Ben Carlson’s ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠A Wealth of Common Sense⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Michael Batnick’s ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Irrelevant Investor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Feel free to shoot us an email at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ with any feedback, questions, recommendations, or ideas for future topics of conversation. Check out the latest in financial blogger fashion at The Compound shop: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://idontshop.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Investing involves the risk of loss. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be or regarded as personalized investment advice or relied upon for investment decisions. Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson are employees of Ritholtz Wealth Management and may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this video. All opinions expressed by them are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinion of Ritholtz Wealth Management. See our disclosures here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ritholtzwealth.com/podcast-youtube-disclosures/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Compound Media, Incorporated, an affiliate of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ritholtz Wealth Management⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, receives payment from various entities for advertisements in affiliated podcasts, blogs and emails. Inclusion of such advertisements does not constitute or imply endorsement, sponsorship or recommendation thereof, or any affiliation therewith, by the Content Creator or by Ritholtz Wealth Management or any of its employees. For additional advertisement disclaimers see here ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ritholtzwealth.com/advertising-disclaimers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Van Eck. Rare Earth metals are the hidden backbone of modern technology and defense, powering everything from smartphones and electric vehicles to fighter jets and wind turbines. Van Eck recognizes early, launching the Rare Earth and Strategic Metals ETF ticker, REMX, 15 years ago, well before supply chain security became a global priority. Today, China dominates the production and refining capacity of rare earths, creating real challenges for global supply security, as these materials are essential for technical technological innovation, clean energy, and national security. That's why countries around the world are racing to build their own supply chains and

reduce reliance on China. As this global shift continues, investment in the rare earth ecosystem is growing rapidly from mining to advanced manufacturing. Investors can access this powerful trend through REMX. Visit vandek.com slash REMX compound to learn more. Welcome to Animal Spirits, a show about markets, life, and investing. Join Michael Batnik and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading, writing, and watching.

All opinions expressed by Michael and Ben are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinion of Ridholt's wealth management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for any investment decisions. Clients of Ridholt's wealth management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast. We are joined today by Doug and Heather Bonaparte to talk about their new book, money together, how to find fairness in your relationship and become an unstoppable financial team.

Guys, welcome to the show. Hey, hey. Michael. Ben. Okay. And so I did read the book and I was so delighted and relieved to very immediately find out that it was written by Heather, through Heather's perspective, which was a very. wise decision it's enough of Doug it's enough yeah no I'm good I'm good here guys by the way I'm barely literate so it's probably bad it's not possible yeah would not have so all right first question

who is the book for like when you thought about this idea who did you picture in your head to be the person that was I'm talking to them awesome question I think this book is for any couple at any age but I would say that our generation, you know, the millennial generation that's kind of seen some things. We've been through a handful of unprecedented events that have probably caused us to pivot and reevaluate things in our lives a fair number of times in those years where big things are typically happening in our lives, where you're graduating college, starting your adult life in the workforce, having children, doing all those, you know, major financial moves. And I think that the thing that we wanted to create was a place for people to see a little

bit more of themselves in other people's stories. Because I can speak for myself, and I can't tell you the number of times over the last two decades that I've been like, is it me? Are we the only ones that are dealing with this? Because I feel like, no one's supposed to be able to do this, right? Yeah. The level of how dynamic. things are at this particular phase. I think that everyone here on this pod is in, like, it's the craziest time. And therefore, it's the easiest time to lose track of communicating with your partner about things that are super important, like money, like the very thing that, you know,

greases the wheel of the things that you can do in your life presently and the things you need to invest and save for to get to those big goals in the future. And at the same time, like, people get lost in their money. marriages all the time. And a lot of that has to do with money, right? That is not a new concept to our generation. That's something that's been happening forever. But I think what's interesting right now, at least the way that I felt, was that it was always made to feel like, is it B? Is it him? Is it everything else going on around us? So the thing that I wanted this book to do was to really give people the tools to have those important conversations at home, get to the bottom of the things

that might not be working for them or that are working really well and gain perspective on their own lives, you know. Yeah, well, it's a very thoughtful book and it's interesting, we're all middle-aged people. And I just think about how... Oh, we are. Come on. We're middle-aged people.

We're seasoned. She gets so mad when I'm saying, we're old now and just... Yeah, we're not old, just middle-aged. We're like, we have one foot in each side. But I think back to how little thought my wife and I put into so many of the big decisions we have. When, you know, getting married was obviously a thing, but then buying a house and having

kids and all these things, it's like you look back and you go, man, I was so naive going into this. Like, I didn't understand so much of this. And to your point like that, putting it out there, I think it helped people because my wife and I talked about a lot of stuff, like, man, this thing we're going through. Other people have to be going through this too. And it's, it's, we realize it's not an easy choice. Like the, you know, like for us, a big one was, you know, daycare or my wife continuing to work. And like, that was a big decision for. for us. And it was, it was not easy for either of us, but especially for her. And those kind of things, there's no handbook for this. Like, they don't teach you this stuff when you have to make

these decisions. It's really hard. No. And I think it's really easy to believe, like, you do this one time and you think you have it all figured out. Yeah. Like, if you were to ask us at 30 years old, or I guess 31 was when we bought our house out in the suburbs and, like, it was the hugest financial decision ever. And we had a little baby and we were like moving out to the suburbs from the city. we're like, we got this all worked out, right? Yeah, it's a year or two around that. We really did think we had it, you know, noodled out and, you know, we'll just continue to trend this way forever.

And, you know, that's a lie. You know, that's a lie, you know, as you go through these periods of life, almost any period of life, you know, you're going to have to navigate finances differently. For us, that resulted in Heather's career in law, you know, ultimately, you know, being something that allowed me to grow a business, us to grow a business, because she was there the entire time helping me make decisions while being an amazing mom, while being a full-time attorney in the corporate world. And we found out that that wasn't

serving us very well. We found ourselves, you know, struggling to have the conversations that needed to be had, and it was very difficult. And if a financial advisor and a lawyer are struggling in this area, what is everybody else doing? Again, Heather's point, are we alone? And it only underscored just how difficult this can be. It's inherently difficult to have basic money conversations with your partner. I think it's difficult to even understand your own relationship with money before you even get to your partner. The whole first part of the book is about getting to know yourself before you even dive into

where your partner came from. And that inspired us to really put this together is like, hey, people need to. help here. And it's an area of personal finance. It's just so important as we look at the divorce rates. We look at the number one reason people, you know, have issues in their relationship is around money. It's like 51%. And by the way, it's not solved by how much money you have. Billionaires get divorced at the same rate. Ordinary people do. So not just a scarcity problem because money, we're talking about money. It's not just money. You're talking about your identity, your values, your perception of autonomy and independence from one another and from the powers

that, you know, control us in this world. So I think, like, it's just so dynamic and there's never a one, it's not a one-time answer. And so we wrote this book and we chose to highlight different seasons and chapters of people's lives and these short stories for a reason because we want you to kind of see that your life moves in seasons. And we, We know this season, but maybe we don't know the next one. And so embracing that uncertainty and fortifying the relationship and the communication skills between the two of you will help you prepare for whatever comes next. When do you think is the right time for people to have the money conversation?

Is it before they maybe get engaged? Is it on the first date where it's like, hey, I spent $3,000 on crypto dick butts, like, want to have a relate? And what was it like for you guys? Yeah, it was definitely exactly our first convo. We predicted crypto dickbots. No. And no, it's not in the DMs before you even ask the person out on the day.

Hey, before we go on this day, you know, are you an American Express? What's your credit score? Give it to me. Exactly. These are the things that will determine if you have a successful relationship. Not at all. I think it is always a good time to talk about these matters. It's how you talk about them.

You don't need to, Ben, good point. Like, what's your credit score? Like, that's obviously not going to fly on your first date. But it comes through the stories. Like, you get to know your partner through the stories that they tell. Well, what's it like growing up in Southern Alabama? You will inherently learn things about what, you know, what their life at home and financial situation was. Yeah, we didn't grow up with much.

I always got secondhand clothing from my brothers and sisters. You just picked up a lot of information about that person's. you know background when it comes to money okay they didn't grow up with a lot of means or we had food insecurity could be the other way around like yeah i came from immense privilege and you know what i'm trying to escape that i'm always under the thumb of my family and my parents you learned an incredible amount about that person about that person on a first or second interaction without coming off like hey how much money do you make when we when my i did this completely the wrong way when we got engaged, I think I've told Michael those before,

I literally gave my wife a PowerPoint presentation on how we were going to invest our money. She asked me, she's like, wait a minute, so we're going to put our money in the stock market, that's really scary. So I said, all right, I'm going to put some stuff together, I'm going to show it to, and I put a PowerPoint presentation, and I think I just beat her down, and she just, all right, fine, fine, you're right, I'm wrong.

That was the wrong way to go about it. But yeah, I think, to your point, a lot of these things come out more naturally than, like, sitting down and, like, you put your ledger on here, and I'll put my ledger, and then we'll hash it out. But what you don't want are surprises, right? You shouldn't be waiting until your honeymoon. I mean, oh, my God, we open the book with this story that, like, we'll never forget. Doug and I were on our honeymoon, the Italian, you know, like, Positano, like, where all the other,

like, American tourists go. We're, like, sitting at the one restaurant that they tell us all to go to, right? And I'm like, we're sitting next to this other couple on their honeymoon. And we hear them, I'm like, oh, my God, they're fighting about my mom. And while on their honeymoon, you have debt. You have student loan debt. You pay the groceries. I'll handle the car payment. And we were just like, this is a, this is the hot mess express happening right now. The point is that that is not the time. But at the same time, you don't need to be like busting out your statements on the first date. We're talking about values, about identity, about your culture, because that all says a lot about the way that you handle money and the way that you'll have to handle money together. By the way, Ben, you said something very interesting, which was like, hey, I tried to, you know, sit my wife down and talk about investments through a PowerPoint presentation. And I think this is an avenue, if not just in practice, but in interviewing couples where I see particularly guys go astray every time. Like, I will never forget, like we wanted to set up money, regular money meetings to discuss a myriad of things that we needed to go over from the business to our own household finances. And there I would be sitting with a spreadsheet in front of me, like a print, like, I went to, I went to distance of printing out the spreadsheet. You know, there's a net worth table, a cash flow statement. And I could see like, think about like, from Heather's perspective, is she excited to see this in front of me to go over the thing that, you know, I want her to be? Now I am. You're speaking from the standpoint of there was a moment in our relationship, and I think this happens to a lot of women, which is why caregiving and contribution is such a big part of the book. I think there is a moment where the division of labor becomes so inequitable in a household where it can be, where a, I'm not just, I don't like to gender this and make it women versus men, but where oftentimes a woman, a woman will find themselves handling so much, so many.

of the household responsibilities, if not almost all of them, that money feels like the only thing they can check out of because it's the only thing they don't mentally feel responsible for. So in a moment like that, when Doug comes marching in and I'm drowning, and by the way, my full-time job is a corporate lawyer, the kids, and helping him out with the business at night, he comes walking over with this. This is not on the menu, guys. Don't care. How about I don't care?

But if you, it's not only not care, but the point. I'm trying to make with Ben's particular situation, which resonated really well. And Heather has a very good point as to why, you know, that's not a way to enter. But if you simply flip this on its head instead of me maybe sitting down with spreadsheets in front of me, and I talked about something we both mutually want, right? For example, we knew we wanted to go on vacation over, you know, Christmas or the holidays. And I said, hey, can we talk about, you know, this vacation? We're sitting down.

We both want this thing. everyone's motivated. And I know I can then have a nice on-ramp into, okay, let's see how we can make that happen. Yeah, let's cancel this, you know, weekend we thought we were going to do there because, you know, hey, lo and behold, the spreadsheet is getting involved. The ones and zeros are being discussed. So the approach. It's the framing. It's the framing of the issue around a positive, shared goal that can really peak interest when somebody may have been a little disengaged from their finances for some time. There was multiple parts in the book, and I'm really annoyed that I left it at home because I did take notes to ask you guys.

But there was multiple parts where I was laughing. I think one of them was, like, as you just described, Heather, was like, Doug something with his socks. And obviously, knowing Doug the way that I do, like, made me laugh. But also, like, of course, I saw myself in a lot of the same situations. That's the goal. Yeah, that was when I said that I was ready to, like, leave Doug over a sock on the steps. Now is the straw that broke the camel's back. It was the sock that broke the camel's back.

Right. Right. Right, right, right. So what do you, go ahead, Doug. Yeah, no, I was going to say. It's really that moment right there highlighted the imbalance and the lack of fairness that clearly started to, you know, build and, you know, our relationship, how we viewed our careers and our time and the roles that we had in our marriage. We clearly weren't going to get divorced, but it prompted a real hard and meaningful conversation between the two of us that ultimately charted. what would then take place in our lives, which gets us here today. Money is the most complicated item to talk about because it's geography, it's where you are in your career, it's the background that you grew up with, like, how did your parents

talk and think about money and behave with money? So I'm sure there is a not great answer to this, but I'm curious with that terrible setup being said, is there like something over the course of all of these different interviews that you saw come up sort of regardless of all of these differences that there was maybe something that you could like nudge or fix like we see this mistake so often. But I don't know I don't know if mistake is a right word. I just don't know what else to call it. What are some of like the, I guess the bad habits that you see couples doing with money? You're nodding your head so I want to let no, no, no, no. I'll say a money adjacent one first and then he can give you a more like

a direct money money i don't like to call the mistakes but to your point like something that people are getting wrong um oftentimes when partners are trying to divide labor in their homes which i believe that money and care and labor are inextricably linked concepts because we're never going to have like equity out sorry i just spoke to you think he just picked my nose you're never going to have that's love that's love right um we're never going to have equity out in the world unless we have it at home. And something that I see often and that I heard often and that we experience often would be Doug saying something like, tell me what to do and I'll do it. And that works. And that works two ways. Like, even when it comes to money and if he wanted to engage me on

something, I would say, well, just tell me the one thing I need to know so that I'll know it. You know, and this idea that the other person doesn't need to own what that is is what's wrong about it. So I just use labor as an example, but like, it doesn't help me for him to drive somebody to one place once. If he didn't put it on the calendar, he didn't prepare them to go there, he didn't arrange the carpool. And him just showing up to, like, drive her there is not helpful. We all have our tails between our legs right now. But what's helpful is to conceptualize plan and execute, which is an concept from Yvrodski and her framework of fair play, but this idea of conceptualizing planning and executing.

owning it, right? Owning something. So when it comes to money even, like you can, one person can own the task of like paying a bill, but like you still really need to know a lot more about your finances.

You can just like, say, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. Like you both have an individual responsibility to step into your understanding of money and be sure that you know what it's going to. It's a practice. You don't go to the gym one. time and you're in the best shape of your life. If you go to the gym four days a week for six

months, you are in the best shape of your life, arguably. And, you know, it only gets better and better. And yes, owning tasks through and through was something that we saw come up a lot. I'll tell you something we saw that come up, that came up quite a bit. It was partners not meeting the other person where they're at. And this really was with how they like to learn or how they process information I am a financial professional. I do things a certain way with my clients, and you know, you would think I would know that not everyone learns the same. And I do. And therefore, you know, it's up to me if I'm the one with that kind of knowledge to find out the ways in which this is going to resonate with Heather.

And I'll give you a quick example that we saw. We had one couple, really, as another financial professional. Oh, yeah, talk about the neurodibrate, yeah. Yeah, beating his head against the wall, tried everything under the sun, rearranged, the numbers on the spreadsheet, a million different ways, and then finally realized that his wife was a visual learner. She also has ADHD. Has ADHD. There was neurodivergency. You know, we all have things, right? And guess what? They brought out a whiteboard. And he started drawing things out in a more visual way than just being limited to the cells of an Excel spreadsheet.

And it clicked. It clicked. So I see people really being stubborn in their own ways or thinking about I'm going to work with my partner in the way that I would do this instead of thinking, again, you flip it on his head. How does Heather, how does my partner learn best? I will make that. It's not even so much a compromise, but I will shift my thinking or my approach. And lo and behold, you start connecting and getting the job done and you have someone who is like, hey, I'm never going to get it. Oh, I'm starting to get it. And then you get into the practice and you build on that. So I have one couple's thing

that I feel very strongly about. And we've gotten questions on this in the past from young people who are about to get married. And it's, should we combine our finances or not? And I think 99% of the time when you don't combine your finances, it works out poorly. I think it just invites fights.

I've heard people say, hey, we do it and it's fine, but it's like, you know, you're paying this share and I'm paying this share. I think combining your finances is something you almost have to do. I don't, there's very few outliers that can make that work without combining your finances. There have been studies that show and that some of the professors have worked on those studies. We interviewed for our book that in the first several years of marriage, the outcomes are better for couples who combine their finances because it increases accountability.

Transparency. Transparency, communication. It creates a dynamic of a team dynamic versus one where you're kind of saying like, we're going to keep. score or we create like a beam counting mentality of you do this and you do that. You want to create a communal environment in your relationship and not one where you're, you know, keeping score too much or hiding the ball. The practicality of the split finances breaks down pretty quickly when, you know, we did talk to a couple who ultimately it all came to a head. It's a whole chapter called the croissant, you know, the woman lost it over her now husband eating a second croissant while they were on vacation in in Tokyo and it had nothing to do with the croissant. They agreed that they should split everything 50-50. So whether

it's over, you know, a husband wanting that extra appetizer or what are you going to do, like split, you know, the stuff for the kids down the middle? Like, to what end does these types of You know, does living in the financial silos, you know, continue to work? And by the way, this does not mean that you should not keep individual accounts. This means that you should operate your family and household finances together as a team. But there certainly are valid reasons why people keep the finances separate, which I always like to point out, like, you know, sometimes in second marriages, sometimes when one partner has been a victim of domestic violence in the past. There's a reason why people decide to keep their finances separate, but by and large, It is better and the outcomes are better when you combine finances.

And also something that's really interesting is you start to see that communality with your finances and partnership and teamwork, that then can bleed into other areas of your life when you start reciprocating around other things like how you divide up the household labor when it becomes less of a keeping score. It becomes more of a team. And I'm going to, I got you. Don't worry about that extra quassant. I'm happy to get that. I'll put a bow on it. It even teaches the kids, I think, more valuable lessons around teamwork and sharing. So, you know, they're always, you know, if you have kids and they're young, they're watching, they're listening. And just like you received your scripts from your upbringing and your background and all of that, they're doing it too.

You know, that's exactly what's happening. So it's multi-generational and dimensional when you're taking these kinds of actions. Where have you seen the best cadence of money talks happening? I happen to think that a quarterly review is a bit odd, but it's odd for my personality, but obviously it works for some very disciplined type of thinkers. Is it like, hey, we're okay, but we need to talk about the big things like a vacation, college planning, summer camp, and we'll talk about it as they come up. And again, I'm sure it's personality driven, but what have you seen that you can share with the listeners?

Yeah. So for Austin, just like you mentioned, we do this on a quarterly. Our practice is a quarterly check-in, and we call them money dates. Heather already mentioned time and place are absolutely critical. Maybe do you think what you like to do together? We like to walk. We like cocktails. We like to eat. We'll center it around that. That's what makes it less weird. Yeah. And more organic is the fact that we choose to do this at a time and a place that it's actually something we enjoy to do and that we probably would have done anyway. We just happen to make the focus of that around money and our big picture goals. But as far as like the content itself of these discussions, it does range. And I think it's best to start big picture high. I think it makes sense to start with what. Don't start your meetings with what's wrong. Start with what's right. What wind do you have? What's serving you well? That's going to lend itself into a much more productive conversation when you ultimately do get into being

critical around what needs improvement. So, you know, time and place, how you begin, the style, these are all very relevant. And there's, do this all the time. No, we don't. It's the thing is, like, you don't want to be doing this every week and, and kind of, we're seeing the issue. But you're going to have those conversations, the little bits and pieces, whether it's, you know, a large purchase that needed to take place in that given day or that week. You know, you don't need your quarterly check-in to talk about, you know, the daily decisions that are, of course, in your life. You want to talk about, are we getting to our goals? We want to talk about, do we need to change any kind of savings or investment plan? You want to talk about, you know, if you own a

business, we have to get to the P&L. We have to actually have a whole part of this conversation. That's, well, how is the family business doing? Because it's intrinsically linked to what we're going to do in terms of our spending, saving, and investment. So it's really a forum to go there. I would obviously say have structure around that and an agenda might be helpful, but the hot tips are time and place and starting with the positives, not the negatives. And wouldn't you also say that the doing this quarterly, which again, like may be right for you, may not be, but it is for us, it allows for us to really embrace and look at the seasonality of our spending and our decision making too, right? Yeah, you know, in practice too.

You tell clients to give themselves, you know, you put them on a savings plan or some kind of investment plan and, you know, they get frustrated in one month because they didn't execute. That's silly. Give yourself some grace and some time to actually be able to see consistency and discipline payoff. So at a minimum, you'll see results in three. I would prefer to, you know, look over the course of a year. And if you're doing quarterly, guys, like, that's four cracks at it. And I know I'm just going to end up adding by four here. after two years, it's eight,

you know, 12, and 16. We can all count by four. But in our profession, we talk about compounding all the time. If you want compounding effects, which will come from creating a practice and discipline around these conversations, you do need to give yourself some time.

But the most important thing is to build consistency and discipline. Wait, I've a follow up question, but hold on. So on this topic of you guys meet quarterly, but a lot of people listening might have a financial advisor where they do something similar with their partner. Does this supplement or replace that? Or is this like, how do you think about that? I love that. What a great question, Michael. That's a great question. I think this has to supplement your work with an advisor. And I think, in fact, it can improve your relationship with your advice. I think the advisor makes this work easier. Yes. Having the advisor makes the work

easier, but it doesn't replace it because as part of these money dates, you have to be discussing time. You have to be discussing how you both feel. Do you feel overloaded? Are you feeling content with the way you're spending your time? Where do you think you need to reinvest your time? Do you feel like your partner's doing enough? Those things are outside the scope of your typical quarterly meeting with your financial advisor. But when you have those discussions with your partner in advance, you can then tailor the meeting with your advisor. You make a great financial advisor. But the reality here is that the advisors are giving the framework. They're doing the network. They're building out the ones and zeros and all of that stuff that you then can run with

and get into these more intimate deeper conversations like Heather said that you're not going to have across from me at the table. And Michael, it's a great question because that's exactly what I say to them. There are so many things I don't need to worry about from clients that do comprehensive financial planning and come sit down with me on a quarterly basis. I know, like, we got 80% of it covered. But, you know, that 80, 20-year-old isn't the 20%. You know, that's where the magic is. That's where the goo of the relationship is, if you're the goo.

Did you guys find any good rules of thumb from talking to couples about, say, like, spending for big purchases? I feel like my wife and I's relationship has evolved over the years with that, where just checking in with, like, what's our amount if we're going to spend? like do you guys do you guys have that we we are big believers in the check in number and that anything beneath the check in number within reason unless you notice patterns that are really having a negative impact on your financial lives like anything below that needs to be fair game like i don't believe in oh my god i hate hate hate the term allowance that is a term for

children not for your spouse so i i do believe there has to be enough financial autonomy for you each to be able to act on the things that you want for yourself, but also on the things you need to keep your household operating. There's nothing I hate more than like a trope of like my wife, my wife, she spends so much when like most of the stuff she's spending money

on is for your children and for your household to run and operate. So I think like we have to have a check in number. The number has to make sense to the two of you and meet your comfort levels, but beneath that you should be able to act with autonomy. It's funny. I just ordered a new life.

laptop guys. And I knew, you know, they're not cheap. And I know Heather, specifically as someone who loves technology and is an early adopter of anything they can get their hands on, I know, despite it being, you know, a couple thousand dollars, um, I didn't necessarily need to check in for that specific thing. You know, it's for business, it's tech. That's who I am. It's, it's part hobby as much as it is practicality. But I actually looked at her and I said, hey, you know what, just want you to know, we're getting a new laptop. And you're like, yeah, great. So, you know, it, but that's because we all know that there's one area in life that Doug will always jump on to, to spend. But I still felt the need to stick to the rule that was, hey, this is a

large purchase. What I didn't want to happen was like, you know, the situation is like, oh, I see you got a new laptop. Yeah, I trust you with technology. But like, I've been wanting X for so long. And you just went out there and dropped, you know, a couple thousand dollars. And yes, it's okay. But, like, now we're having, like, a weird moment around, you know, this that never needed to take place at all. I want that time, I want that kind of time back. I want that energy and I want that time back in my life. I don't want to spend it, you know, doing that.

So, Ben, you nailed it. The check in number is a really practical thing to, like, implement in your relationship. Listen, I also believe in equality. I spend more money on clothes and shoes than my wife. So I like to reverse the rules here. She gives me crap about it all the time. I think that's great. We've been.

And I like your shirt today. Thank you. All right, guys. Last question from May. There are a lot of Finfluencers out there. Some are giving wonderful advice and others are giving really crappy advice. Is there anything that you see that just absolutely drives you nuts? Yeah.

Yeah, one size. Got to let you take. Oh, first of all, but shout out to all the Finfluencers that are like really putting out amazing content and grinding it out. I think it's not easy to do. I think that life is tough. I really do. And as someone who creates content,

like, I know how hard it is. And then you have a whole slew of, you know, experts or folks who are trying to put on way too many one-size-fits-all strategies when it comes to helping you navigate your financial life. And it typically shows up into, here's the, you know, the real estate course or I'm going to point to some ticker symbols that are literally the most common index, you know, funds. under the planet? Or is just impuging their advice with the most survivorship bias you could ever like, this is what worked for me. So it's definitely going to work for you. And, you know, I'm just like, it's so clear these folks do not have the context of ever working with real clients or real couples over a prolonged period of time to help them through real, real issues in their lives, real major moments in their life. It's so clear when they lack that

They're great for skilling up and getting a base of knowledge. And I absolutely love that. It's never been more democratized. You know, the fact that podcasts like this exists where people can come and, you know, get educated and be trained is an absolutely wonderful thing. But in a sea of a lot of content, you have to be very mindful, particularly around content where people are making real decisions that impact their real lives. This isn't like to pick up like, oh, Ben's shirt's awesome. I'm going to go pick up that. That decision's not going to bankrupt you. But going out and buying a couple Airbnb properties thinking, you know, you're going to take advantage of cost segregation and bonus depreciation and you've never dealt with a tenant. And you don't even know what a mortgage is. Like you like this is terrible, terrible advice in that context, right? Because it has no context. That's the point. That's the survivorship. I did it.

You can too. Here's my course for $100 a month. The only thing that happens here is you're out $1,200 at the end of the year. Well, Doug and Heather are married happily. talking about money and you can be too if you read their book money together Doug and Heather you guys are the best look forward to seeing you at your book party thanks