Animal Spirits Podcast - Talk Your Book: The All-In-One Home Equity Loan

Starting point is 00:00:00 Today's Animal Spirits Talk Your Book is brought to you by North Point Bank. You can go to Northpoint.com. That's Point with an E on the end. Northpoint.com to learn more about their all-in-one loan with Home Equity Line. That's northpoint.com. Welcome to Animal Spirits, a show about markets, life, and investing. Join Michael Batnik and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading, writing, and watching. All opinions expressed by Michael and Ben are solely their own opinion

Starting point is 00:00:26 and do not reflect the opinion of Ridthold's wealth management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for any investment decisions. Clients of Ridholt's wealth management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast. Welcome to Animal Spirits with Michael and Ben. Michael, for the last year, year and a half, two years or so, I've been talking about the huge rise in home equity that we've seen in this country. I think it was, it's up, I don't know, $15 trillion since the beginning of the pandemic, something like that. that. We're up to like 31.6 trillion at the last counting. People have a lot of money in their homes. Some of it seems locked away because they have a 3% mortgage already and kind of like,

Starting point is 00:01:11 what do I do with this money? And so I've been saying for years that I think we're going to see more creativity in the home equity line of credits that are offered to people. And today's talk with North Point Bank is one of those opportunities. You want to touch you, you want to do something your equity, don't you? It feels like it's just sitting there, doesn't it? Safe and sound. Yeah, I don't know. There's a part of me that it's like having my house be more and more paid off or the value went up so I have this equity is, it is like a nice margin of safety, but I feel like you could handle having access to your, your house. Yes, the finance brain in me says I should be doing something with this money. And this was an interesting one. So North Point

Starting point is 00:01:54 Bank, which is facing ground up, it's Michigan. It's right down the street for me. Straight down East Beltline. They have this product that works essentially as a home equity line of credit that you can write against, but also it's like a bank account that you can use to pay your bills and the money that you put into the account pays down the principal so you pay less interest. It's really interesting. And we get all into it today with Jason Anderson from North Point. And I've never really seen an account like this before. Have you? This is totally new to me. Yeah. I feel like, yeah, my head was spinning a little bit, but definitely an interesting idea. And you have to be, you kept getting into this on the talk here, the interview of you have to be a very fiscally responsible person to manage something like this.

Starting point is 00:02:39 But I think if you are and you have this large equity sitting in your house and you want to do something with it, I think that something like this is very interesting. Yeah, I wonder if this is, I don't know, I'm making this up. I have no basis of saying this, but maybe not for the first time home buyer. although with interest rates that with interest rates that approaching 8% may be maybe not a terrible idea. But the idea of someone who does investment properties or rentals or wants to use a big amount of their equity for something else that feels like, again, it's just sitting there. I can see I can see this idea of taking hold for some people. Anyway, so we talked to Jason Anderson.

Starting point is 00:03:18 He gives us email address at the end of the credit to Jason. Credit to Jason. The first time we ever had that. And so here's our talk with Jason Anderson of North Point Bank. We're joined today by Jason Anderson. Jason is the regional vice president at North Point Bank based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Right? Jason, welcome to the show. Correct. Grand Rapids, Michigan. We lend in all 50 states, Ben, but focused and centered

Starting point is 00:03:42 and headquartered in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Michael can't handle this many flyover people on the podcast at once. Jason, a couple of weeks ago, Ben and I were joking. We were joking. We were talking about the modern farmhouse how that's just like that is the house it's all and ben started laughing he's like that looks exactly like my house it's not just a midwest thing it's it's it's such a midwest thing so i spent 30 years in indianapolis guys and i can tell you that that craze is for real uh the indianapolis suburbs are are littered with that with that uh that modern farmhouse michael they are everywhere it's spread all the way

Starting point is 00:04:22 east to Long Island. I'm saying it's all over the place here. Yeah, it's like a locust. It's the big thing, man. It's the big thing. You should see some of these in the Indianapolis and surrounding suburbs. Like, never say anything like it. So, Jason, I've seen North Point Bank, the headquarters is not that far from my office. Give me some background on the bank, because I'm really not that familiar with everything you guys do. Sure, sure, sure. So the bank was founded in 1998, and we are an FDIC bank, Ben, but really we do focus on all types of mortgage operations, right? Warehouse facility lending, which is lending to other, you know, banks and mortgage companies, retail lending, which is what I do, which is just mortgage origination, servicing.

Starting point is 00:05:06 So really that's been our focal point is all types of mortgage operations. Again, we're depository, but from a revenue standpoint, that's really something we focused on. You know, the idea has always been, you know, offer a fantastic platform. for top sales individuals to come to. And that's really what North Point has strived to do. We've got a lot of product and we do lend in all 50 states. So it caters to the higher level sales individuals. I'd like to think I'm one of those sales individuals. I've been with the bank for about 13 years and it's just, it's just been an incredible run for me. And, you know, look, focused on customer service, especially in these challenging environments and, you know,

Starting point is 00:05:47 doing whatever we can do to help the consumer. Before we get to the all-in-one loan, which we're really excited to talk to you about, you mentioned providing a great platform. What does that mean from your vantage point? So really the platform, it's a combination of fulfillment, right? It's a combination of product. It's a combination of, you know, competitive pricing. You know, technology is important.

Starting point is 00:06:11 So you put all these things together. And again, the idea is to be able to help the client, you know, in a stress-free process, a ton of product. And again, the idea is that it's going to attract your highest producers. But to that point, the platform is the entire lending platform. It encompasses everything. And like I said, it's pricing, it's product, it's fulfillment, which is really, really important. So, you know, you guys probably, you know, are aware, hey, I've had a bad experience with my mortgage company or a challenging experience with my bank. That all rolls under the idea of platform, right? Do you have systems in place? Do you have process in place? Is the culture in place? So, you know,

Starting point is 00:06:52 13 years for myself at North Point Bank, many can attest in our industry as a lifetime. And I think that speaks volumes about the platform that North Point does offer. I looked into the all-on-one loan today and you have a nice video on your website that explains it. And this to me seems like a relatively, it's like a creative product as far as I've seen in the mortgage. So explain to me how exactly this thing works. Yep. So basically the product itself, like you said, Ben, it's known as the all-in-one loan. The generic term is offset mortgage. And offset mortgages are readily available in other parts of the world. They're newer to the United States, but basically the foundation of the product is it's a first lean 30-year home equity line of credit

Starting point is 00:07:33 that combines with a checking account. Okay. And then that checking account, whenever a deposit hits the checking account, it will sweep over and pay down that line of credit. Okay. So really, the concept and fundamentally this is how the product works. On a traditional loan, you're paying interest first, right? Interest is front loaded. On this particular product, you're doing the opposite. You are actually paying principle first. And because of that, the results are, in some cases, absolutely phenomenal. Okay. There's not really any other product in our space that functions like the all in one loan where the principal is paid down first as opposed to, you know, interest being paid first.

Starting point is 00:08:16 So my checking account, I have money going in and coming out all the time. Not to brag. Let's say there's an average balance in there. I don't know, whatever it is. So as the money comes in and as you get a direct deposit from your employer for your income, that essentially pays down the principle of the loan, so you're paying less in interest. But then if you write checks out of that or you pay your rent or whatever it is, then the loan balance increases.

Starting point is 00:08:38 So the loan balance is kind of yo-yoing? I tell you what, Ben, I do a presentation weekly. I may have you ride shotgun with me because that is exactly. exactly how the product works. Okay? It's, you know, we've all been groomed to believe that you've got to have money sitting in your checking and or savings to pay for your bills or pay for what have you, right? I mean, that's what we've all been conditioned to believe. But the reality is you need a funding source to pay for those bills, right? And that money, you know, 5,010th, whatever's sitting in that checking account, is it accruing more interest than it did two years ago?

Starting point is 00:09:08 Of course it is, right? Just because rates being so high. But the reality is we are turning those deposits into equity in your property. That's exactly what's happening. And to your point, Ben, basically what happens at that point is you have a funding source. You've got a line of credit. Okay. So checks, debit card. You can wire money in and out. So are these, is this product especially more exciting for a borrower with the 30 or above 7 percent? Like, would it make more in today's market versus, say, three years ago when rates were sub 3.5 percent? Yeah, that's a, that is an awesome question, Michael. So, look, does it work more efficiently in today's market? Does it cater directly into the market that we're in right now? Absolutely. You know, I've been doing this since

Starting point is 00:09:55 1995. These rates are as high as I've ever seen, right? That being said, it can work just as effectively or very effectively still, if we're competing against, you know, somebody that came out of the refi boom, let's say the 2020, 2020, 2021 refi boom with those lower rates. It's not going to work quite as efficiently, but the key to this entire idea of the product itself is, you know, you may have a 30-year fixed where, you know, you guys know, or you hear this. You pay an extra payment on a monthly basis, or I'm sorry, on an annual basis, make 13 payments instead of 12. My mortgage got cut down a few years. Really the idea behind this is if it works really as efficiently as it can and the client takes advantage of that, we're

Starting point is 00:10:40 talking about significantly cutting down the mortgage, not just a few. few years. So the difference, Michael, would be this against, you know, when we're comparing against a 3% rate, yeah, there is a possibility that it's, although it's going to work really, really efficient, it's not going to work as efficiently as it does in this current environment. How do clients typically come to you? Is it the kind of thing where they have a mortgage somewhere else and they apply with you to get this? How does that work usually when you get new clients? Yeah, good question, Ben. So, you know, again, going back to North Point Bank, you know, we are designed to hire the best of the best, right? That's what the platform allows us to do.

Starting point is 00:11:16 Really, it's probably one of a couple things, Ben. You know, maybe the client comes to us. They're referred by somebody. They come to us. All they know is 30-year fixed, right? That's all we ever have been groomed to believe. A 30-year fixed. And it makes sense, right? From a capitalist standpoint, it's simple. We know 30-year fix, give me my rate, give me my payment, right? So, you know, a lot of times they'll come looking for the 30-year fixed. Everybody's swimming in the same pool, right? It's just all about rate at that point. And if we see the need, if we ask the right questions and we see that there is a need or this particular client may be just completely dialed in there or their particular

Starting point is 00:11:54 scenario makes a ton of sense, we can ship the conversation and offer it to them, right? You guys may see the challenge with this is in this environment, you know, there's almost no refinances, 30-year refinances occurring, right? Because it's got to be such a need for cash out that somebody's willing to give up their low interest rate from the previous three, four years. This is a little old school this product. You know, we all have a, you know, a client base that can use or find a need or potentially, again, we can figure out what the client's need is. So, so this is a little different too. This isn't just the clients coming to us, but I would say also it's something that we're selling a little bit

Starting point is 00:12:31 more. We're no longer order takers in the industry, right? Just give me a rate on a 30 year thing. That's no longer what we're doing in this environment. Obviously, it makes sense that you're not seeing a lot of refinancing activity right now. So I assume because there's all this, I think the number I looked at last was like 31. Something trillion dollars in home equity. Like people have a ton of equity in their house. So are people more attuned to a home equity line of credit these days? And I mean, because there's so much equity there, even if they're not, you know, doing a cash out refi. Yep. So we're going to, you know, in that case, Ben, we're going to look at every situation differently, right? We've really got to ask the right questions. To that point,

Starting point is 00:13:06 is it super challenging or does it make you know financial sense for a client to give up a you know a low interest rate that they secured two three years ago probably not so we have seen a pretty significant uptick in the clients that are calling saying hey i don't want to give up my first mortgage but i have an interest in and borrowing cash i need cash i mean we're in a really really interesting dynamic in this in the market right now right so um in those cases though they've got to understand And when you hear that the Fed is increasing interest rates, it is a direct correlation with your helix, your home equity lines of credit. So we are getting a ton of inquiries for home equity lines of credit. This product gives us a different option, right? It gives us a solution, a potential solution with ancillary benefits over and above that. So again, like you said, Ben, the interesting dynamic is with where these rates have gone, there's an idea that. equity or home values would be dropping, but that's just not the case because of our limited supply. So you do have everybody's, you know, not everybody, but you know, Joe Consumer does

Starting point is 00:14:16 have in a lot of cases a significant amount of equity. So, you know, this product potentially gives them a reason to refinance off of their lower interest rate. Can we talk about exactly how this works? So let's say that I've got a $3,000 monthly mortgage payment. I'm paying $2,000 in interest, $1,000 in principle. How does it, like, how are you all able to flip that on its head? Yeah. So the, the easiest way to explain it, Michael, is going back to the idea that it's not just a mortgage product. It's a banking product. Okay. The grooming financially is that on the first of every month, I got to make my mortgage payment, right? And I get a 15-day grace period. Okay. Basically what's happening with this product, like this is this is how it's actually working is it's accruing interest on a daily basis. Okay. And then on the 21st of every single month, we are going to have that interest hit your all in one account. So you'll see the increase like you spoke to earlier, Ben, whether it's paying expenses or what have you. But then any time a dollar, $10, your monthly deposit hits your checking account, it will sweep over.

Starting point is 00:15:31 and you will literally see it pay down that account, dollar for dollar, if you will. So really what's happening is any expense, child care, food, anything, anytime you are using your all-in-one loan, again, it's a line of credit, and you're using it to pay your expenses, it's increasing the balance. And then anytime you have a deposit hits your checking and or savings account, it's going to pay it down. The key to it is and the reason why I keep referring to it as a banking product, again, from my own experiences, you know, I got to be careful here. I don't want to go with what my terms were, but I did refinance off of a very low interest rate with, you know, I jumped in with both feet, took me about 30, 60 days. But then you realize after 30, 60 days, best practices, everything hits that checking account. And then you pay that, you know, if you want to kill the mortgage or I'm sorry, kill the interest, everything's got to. So, you know, to answer your question, question, Michael, truly at the end of the day, it's just a different way to do banking, but the ancillary benefit, the foundation of the product is we're paying principal first while that's happening. So there really is no preset monthly payment. Like, it's an interest only loan effectively. And the interest can just keep building if you don't pay it off. But if you

Starting point is 00:16:50 are paying it off and I guess if you wanted to, if you were taking a lot of money out of here, you'd want to put more money in each month if you wanted to pay it off and didn't want interest expenses to grow and compound. That's it, Ben. So, you know, the reason that we want to impress on our clients that it pays principle first is because at its core, that's what it does, right? It doesn't mean you have to specifically use it for that, right? It does have ancillary benefits. I always tell the story of a client that called us in a jam and his current loan was about to adjust. His income was decreasing. He was going to retire in three, four years, but he had a significant amount of equity in his house. But if you think about it, on a 30-year fixed,

Starting point is 00:17:31 you're still, you know, you're still handicapped. You are making that payment every single month. That's not all bad. This is exciting. It's something, it's something that I've never seen before. And I think for people that are very fiscally responsible, this offers a lot of flexibility. Yep. One of the beautiful things about the 30-year fixed mortgage, though, is that there is no flexibility. And so, you know, come hell or high water, you have to pay your mortgage. Yep. And it's,

Starting point is 00:17:58 it's for savings. And quite frankly, it's people's biggest asset and a lot of this country needs that discipline. I mean, look, you're spot on.

Starting point is 00:18:06 Yeah, because this can be seen as like, oh my God, it's a piggyback. I don't need to spend, I don't need to even pay it down. Like, oh, this is so much fun.

Starting point is 00:18:12 I wish you could get into my brother's ear, Michael, because he didn't listen to me. So he's cruising around in a brand new boat. Now, he's got the means, but still,

Starting point is 00:18:20 that's what happened. So look, it's understanding truly what the product offers, right? But we can run simulators and some of the results are just incredible how quickly these mortgages get paid off. That being said, look, exerting some sort of discipline is really, really important.

Starting point is 00:18:39 It is because it's not that it's not going to work. It's just that for it to work as effectively as you want it to be, you really do need to be somewhat disciplined, okay? So what are you looking for in those cases? Is it when someone comes to you, you're looking for a certain credit score? Is it income-based? is it, or are you looking at just the equity in the home? Like, what's the, what are the triggers you're looking for? Good question, Ben. So look, so the underwrite of the file of an all-in-one loan

Starting point is 00:19:04 is comparable to any other, you know, conventional mortgage, similar debt-to-income ratios. Loaned the values cap at about 80% loaned the value. So think about it. The client can borrow up to 80% depending on what the occupancy status is. We're going to check income. We're going to check assets. We're going to underwrite it just like any other conventional loan. It doesn't go through an automated approval, like a conventional loan, FHA, those are automated approvals. But basically, the underwriter is looking at this and saying, hey, do I have the income, you know, are the debt ratios in line? So from that standpoint, it is a comparable underwrite. There's no, you know, you don't need a 785, you don't need a really high FICO score. It's,

Starting point is 00:19:47 it's basically looking at those same variables that you may see on a conventional loan. And it's, again, it's a manual underwrite. So we got a person. and going through that thing. We've got one of our underwriters scrubbing through that to make sure it qualifies. So this is a banking product, as you mentioned. Does this not work if you're not doing direct deposit into this account? Really good question with that too, Michael, because here's the situation. Here's what we've realized just by selling the product the last two, three years like we have.

Starting point is 00:20:16 It can work for an investor, right? Rental income hitting your checking account, right? It could be bonus income. You know, maybe you don't have your direct deposit. going in there, but you get a significant bonus check every quarter, okay? Just keep in mind for the product to work as effectively as possible, every single dollar you earn should hit that particular, should hit the checking account. Let me, let me sidebar here too real quick, Michael. It's a huge win for a lot of our investors, okay? Think about it. You know, the investors

Starting point is 00:20:50 are going out. They're paying a lot of points right now on the investor, on the investor loans. the rates are you know where they are and basically this gives them a lending vehicle that they can pay down and then borrow back against right from a cash flow standpoint for our investors it can offer some significant upside do you want to touch on oh go ahead sorry i was thinking about this because let's there are a lot of people who have the three percent mortgages and they say you know what i'm going to rent out my three percent mortgage house and i'm going to buy a new one but i want that equity or i want to buy a vacation home on the lake whatever it is that is this Is this an option for that? It's a huge option, especially in this market. So what's happened, guys,

Starting point is 00:21:31 is the last year, a couple years is, you know, based on risk, you've seen, again, the cost of a second home or cost of an investment property increased quite a bit, right? Paying points. There's also refi risk. What if the rates do drop, then all of a sudden all those loans are going to refinance, right? So we're talking about paying points here. And I don't mean, hey, I got to pay, you know, a quarter point. I mean, these are some significant adjustments that we're seeing on investment properties in second homes. This product can be offered with no points, okay? Few and far between in our industry are offering any type of financing on a second home and or investment property with no points.

Starting point is 00:22:11 And again, you know, we do a lot of lending in South Florida. And, you know, you know, the bigger loan sizes down there. You know, you're talking, you know, a conventional loan at X with three or four points. I mean, I mean, this is shocking. You know, this is sticker shock for a lot. lot of clients. The all in one loan does offer a par rate with no points. Is there a risk that people use this product and they just don't pay down their principal? Of course. It can happen. You know, like some of it is intentional, right? Michael, again, I've got clients that they don't want

Starting point is 00:22:41 to make a payment. They're going to sell their house in three, four years. They're good with it. They just want better cash flow in the meantime. You know, it can happen. Now, it's going to cap from a risk standpoint. It's going to cap, like I said, at roughly 80 percent loan the value, depending on what the occupancy is. I would say this. It's possible. It's no, it's no different than being reckless with a home equity line of credit. It's just no, no different than being fiscally irresponsible in general, Michael. Those are conversations that if we gravitate towards that this product may, you know, fill or suit a need for a client, we're going to have that conversation with them. We need to make sure the client understands the value, but also understand

Starting point is 00:23:20 somewhat of what the risk could be if they are not disciplined with the product. One of the things Mike and I've been talking about is if we see rates decline and, you know, they're seven and a half, eight percent now, I think higher than anyone could have thought possible, certainly higher than I thought was possible from what things were just a couple of years ago. Do you see a lot of pent up demand there if rates were to fall to six percent or even five percent that we see this huge flood in demand or unlocking people who are finally saying, okay, I'm going to sell my house now because I can afford to buy somewhere else? Do you see that pent up demand there?

Starting point is 00:23:51 Yeah. So, you know, the challenge right now, and again, I don't, I don't know that any of us have ever seen a market like this, right? Who could have possibly thought, Ben, that rates were going to go as high as they are, but yet home values and asset values are still staying afloat. It's purely because of supply and demand like you spoke to, right? The interesting thing is this. The driver we thought was going to be, we just need the rates to drop enough that we get a little

Starting point is 00:24:16 mini-refi boom. But we've realized that that's not the driver, right? The driver is the rates have to go low enough that somebody does want to come off that 3% rate, right? It's almost like discretionary. Like in 2020, oh my gosh, hey, I found a house I want to buy. I'm buying it. I don't even, you know, I don't have a new job. I don't have a reason.

Starting point is 00:24:35 I just want to buy a new house. It's a little bit different now. Now, unless a client is absolutely forced to give up that low interest rate or maybe they want to cash in, right, Ben, maybe they want to, you know, sell their house and cash in. unless that happens, the market is just stagnant right now, right? It's just the only driver is such limited supply. I don't know that demand will ever get us to a point by itself without rates really, really, really decreasing. I don't, again, I don't know the number. I just know this. We are really fortunate from the standpoint that in 2020, 2021, so many consumers were able to secure that low rate because in these challenging times, without that, we would be in even more

Starting point is 00:25:19 trouble. So, you know, there are a lot of consumers are just, hey, I'm not moving. I'm not giving up this rate no matter what. And it is causing obviously, you know, just just a huge problem right now. Not enough inventory. What happens when we do see additional inventory because of the economy? It doesn't necessarily even mean that all of a sudden there's this pen up demand. There's some. but it is a really interesting dichotomy right now and what's happening. And if you asked anybody a year ago, hey, if rates were fluctuating where they are, would you think the asset and home values would still stay in a lot of markets, let's say, still stay at about par, if not increasing a little bit.

Starting point is 00:25:59 I think most individuals would say absolutely not. So, yeah, there's a lot of uncertainty and a lot of unknown right now. And the driver that we're all waiting for is if and when, we get a reset in rates where do they need to drop to so that we'd get some inventory in this in the economy again. And if we do get the inventory, is there even going to be demand at that point? Yeah. What a what a wild market this is to say the least. Getting back to the all in one loans, is that, is that the bulk of your business or how prevalent is that? Yeah, it's great question. So it's definitely increased quite a bit as a percentage of at least my region's business. You know,

Starting point is 00:26:40 we have spent a lot of time focusing on the value add and the benefit of this particular product. And, you know, if they owe, you know, Michael, maybe they only owe 150 on their first, but they need a considerable amount of cash out, right, to just get their cash flow in line. This is the product for that. So, you know, again, we've got some exceptional salespeople on my teams and they have really found a way to create value with this particular product. It's definitely, definitely become a value. tool for all of our salespeople. And we're absolutely doing a higher percentage than we were, you know, a year, year and a half ago for sure. Michael and I were talking about this today on our show

Starting point is 00:27:19 actually when we recorded that I have a friend who works in a loan department. And they were saying that like it was just amazing for, you know, the whole of the second half of the 2010s and the early 2020s, not just with housing activity, but with refis, right? The loan departments were just were just humming. And I remember trying to put through a refine and it took forever because I think the loan departments were so backed up. So how, uh, how are things now that they've had to have slowed so considerably? So how, like, how are, how much of things change and how was like the, the morale of people trying to get these products through? Yeah. You know, I don't know what the industry is going to look like six months from now, a year from now. It may never be the same. You know, this may be the new normal,

Starting point is 00:27:59 what we see. But what can we do to help the client? You know, that's a huge concern right now. There's, there's just not a ton of options for the client. But, you know, again, I've been doing this since 1995. And 2008, 2009 was, you know, the levers pulled were a little bit different. It impacted absolutely everybody. This is a different animal altogether. You know, this is just, I feel like in 2008, we had an idea of what was going to happen or what we needed to do to get things going again. At this point, you know, I don't think there's a lot of visibility on what this is going to look like. You know, a lot of consumers, a lot of experts are waiting for the, the recession that's probably already come. And the idea is, you know, the recession is going to,

Starting point is 00:28:44 in almost all cases, is going to offer lower rates at that point. So it's a, it is, again, it's just a really interesting dynamic. This is really where we're paid to add value, help the client. Don't expect. You know, expectation should not be that next week, all of a sudden the rates are going to drop. You know, we thought that a year ago. It didn't happen. It's just nobody knows. Nobody knows. Jason, last question from me. I'm intrigued by the idea. Unfortunately, sometimes financial innovation is dangerous. One of the things that's nice about the 30 year, just getting back to it is it's predictable. When people get into these all-in-one loans, do they understand, are there illustrations, is there, you know, it sounds exciting and there's flexibility, but do they really understand what they're getting themselves into when they work with a North Point? Yep, yep. So we do. a really deep dive, Michael. We do simulators. We take their financial data. The simulator will spit out some worst case scenarios, some better case scenarios. We have an internal training, right? Not only do we have,

Starting point is 00:29:49 you have to be licensed internally, but then we have a mentor program. There's definitely a lot more to this, right? And hopefully because of that, there's also significant benefit for the client, for the right client that understands this. Now, we may get the client, Michael, that's, you know, they go through a presentation and they're like, I'm in both feet. I'm jumping in. I love it. It sounds great. You did it yourself. I trust you. But even when that happens, it's like, you know, don't get me wrong. It's great to hear. But even when that happens, we definitely need to temper their emotions a little bit and say, hey, now wait a second. We're going to do a deep dive. We're actually going to look at all of their expenses. Every single expense they have on a monthly basis. This isn't just your, hey, my car loan and

Starting point is 00:30:31 my credit cards, right? That's not what this is. This is a way of life, right? So we literally look at all their expenses and every dollar that hits their checking account. So definitely more to it. But again, I think that goes to us doing our due diligence up front and making sure the client does have, and we do. To your point, Michael, when I do my presentations, I keep it really simple because just fundamentally I want them to understand how it works. But when we do a deeper dive, we've got, trust me, we got all the graphs, we got all the data points, everything necessary for the client to be able to make an informed decision. So where can we send people to learn more?

Starting point is 00:31:04 So they can come straight to me at this point, Ben, and then we can figure out whether they would go to one of the people on our team. And so. Jason, what's your social? Yep. So the easiest way would just be emailed me directly, right? It's jason. At northpoint.com.

Starting point is 00:31:23 And Northpoint is all one word with an E at the end of it. So it's Jason. dot Anderson at North Point, N-O-R-T-H-P-O-I-N-T-E dot com. And then, like I said, it would either go through my team or we would have one of our other teams depending on region. Well, Jason, you're a brave man. I think this might be the first time that anybody is given their email address as a where to send them.

Starting point is 00:31:45 So appreciate your time. This is super interesting and we appreciate you coming on today. You guys are awesome. I appreciate the time. Appreciate the opportunity. Thanks again to North Point. Thank you again to Jason. We're going to give him the email address, or the website, but he just gave us his email address, which is great.

Starting point is 00:32:02 And our new email address is... Animal Spirits at the compound news.com. We're definitely going to mess that up going forward, but... All right. See you next time.

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Animal Spirits Podcast - Talk Your Book: The All-In-One Home Equity Loan

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