Animal Spirits Podcast - Talk Your Book: Where to Save For Your Down Payment

Episode Date: November 22, 2021

On today's Talk Your Book we spoke with Taylor and Brett Sohns from Lifegoal Investments about their Home Down Payment ETF. Find complete shownotes on our blogs... Ben Carlson’s A Wealth of Common Sense Michael Batnick’s The Irrelevant Investor Like us on Facebook And feel free to shoot us an email at [e-mail] with any feedback, questions, recommendations, or ideas for future topics of conversation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's Animal Spirits Talk Your Book is brought to you by Life Goll Investments. Go to Lifegoalinvestments.com and learn how you can find a savings vehicle to save for your down payment. By far the most asked question we get on Animal Spirits. Again, lifegoalinvestments.com. Welcome to Animal Spirits, a show about markets, life, and investing. Join Michael Batnik and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading, writing, and watching. Michael Batnik and Ben Carlson work for Ritt Holt's Wealth Management. All opinions expressed by Michael and Ben or any podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of Ritt Holt's wealth management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for investment decisions. Clients of Ritthold's wealth management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.

Welcome to Animal Spirits with Michael and Ben. Ben, you certainly of the two of us are the more goal-oriented person, I would say. Is that fair? That's probably fair. I have a lot of spreadsheets in my life. How did you save for a house? Because what you were saving for a house in the 90s, interest rates were at like 6%.

It wasn't exactly the 90s, but yes, my first interest rate on my house for my mortgage was 6.25% or 6.5% or 6.5, as Michael would say. In late 2007, we bought our first home. That was basically, besides my 401K, that was the only thing we saved for. But at the time when I was buying, it wasn't as much fanfare for housing. Guess how much I put down to my first house?

3%. 5%. 20% is a myth putting it out there. Anyway, we've talked about this multiple times in the past. Our inbox, we get dozens and dozens of emails every day, I guess. Lots of questions, really good questions from people. By far, and I think this is interest rate environment, like this is where it comes from, the interest rate environment, right? Interest rates are low. I'm saving for my house for two to four or five years, whatever it is, maybe seven years. I hate seeing it not earn anything in my savings account. What can I do with it? But it's even worse, because not only are they not keeping up with inflation, talking like looking at home prices going up 20% year over a year is like a double whammy.

Yes. So people want to take more risk. They want to earn more money while they're saving. How do I do that? We've thrown out a few ideas in the past. There's nothing that is really stuck, right? That you can say like, oh, this is the answer. Sheba Inu coin is, it's probably not the answer. Did we mispronounce that? Someone said we mispronounce it, I think. Shiba Inu. Okay.

I can never get it either. So today we have a couple guys, two brothers, Taylor and Brett, who founded a company during the pandemic to figure this out. Because Brett was literally in the situation. I don't know if he emailed us asking for advice. He's in the industry, so he took care of it. But he literally found himself in the situation where a whole whole. Holy moly, I'm saving for a house. I don't know what to do with this money because I can't

put in the stock market at all. That's too risky. Can't leave it in bonds or cash. I'm not keeping up with inflation. They saw a problem and they came with the solution. It makes sense to me too. So they have, it's a balanced portfolio. It has a decent allocation to bonds in it, but also some commodities and other. It's a very diversified portfolio, but it also invests in things related to the housing market. So if housing is going up in value, as you say, and it has, it has, it has been, it's going to invest in some of those stocks that will take part in it. You know, we didn't get into it. They also, they have a suite of products for different goals. They have funds for saving for children, saving for vacations, and saving for wealth. I think, especially when it comes to personal

finance, so much of this comes down to psychology. And I think if you can bucket your goals like this, I have them just on my spreadsheet. I have different retirement and vacations and intermed, all these that like I have them bucketed. I have them. I think if you can label your goals like this, there's a huge psychological component that can help you save for this stuff and keep you on track to like reach that goal. Right? Mm-hmm. It's actually called the Life Goal Home Down Payment Investment ETF. The ticker is HOM. I think it's a great idea. I think it makes a lot of sense. People have to look into it and make sure it makes sense for them to. It's like a target date fund for life. Yes. That's kind of what these are. It makes a lot of sense. And obviously the name

life goal makes sense. It's kind of cool. These guys as brothers decided to build this out. They had some early investors who were former football teammates of theirs. It's a really cool story, right? Entrepreneurno success story. So here is our, without further ado, our interview with Taylor and Brett Sones, the co-founders of Life Goal Investments. We are joined today by co-founders, co-brothers, Taylor and Brett Sones. Guys, thanks for coming on today. Thanks for having us. All right. Here's where we're going to start. Since we don't know anything about your background, you've got a new company, life goal investments. We're excited to hear the origin story.

If you can, in 10 seconds or less, just going to give more time than that. Give us the background. Why did you guys get this company off the ground? Excellent. Yeah, thanks for having us. When COVID hit here in 2020, I was planning on building a house. My wife and I were planning on building a house. We live about three hours north of Manhattan in Saratoga Springs. And rather than building the house, we said we'd better wait. The reason why is because you're in a COVID. economic contraction, you could potentially lose your jobs. You don't know how much house you could possibly afford. So we waited and we say that this might work out perfect. We could go into a huge recession and buy the house for 30% cheaper potentially than it would have been prior. So as you all

know, that backfired in our face extremely. Prices went up instead of going down and being a little outside of Manhattan, the ripple effect in the housing market from folks moving out of Manhattan into the Burbs really hit in Saratoga Springs, just like it did in a lot of other places. in the country. So home prices went through the roof. And about December of 2020, I was sitting there thinking to myself, how my fixed income portfolio, I had something along the lines of cash or investment grade bonds that I had my down payment for my home in, hitting 2, 3% per year. And I was okay with that. But I was coming to the realization that COVID is driving up house prices much more than 2 or 3%. It was more like 20% over the last 12 months. Not according to Ben.

Home prices are up substantial in any neighborhood across the country. Because of that, we looked at the portfolio and we said, wait a second, maybe my house down payment in bonds just getting two or three percent isn't enough. What can we do to make this keep pace with home price inflation a little better? So Taylor and I have a background in investments. We both did our undergrad a little outside of, actually at Iona College, just a little outside of Manhattan. We both did our MBAs there as well. And then we went on to both get CEMAs. And then Taylor also. has a CFP. So with that background, you both have CFAs, which is the standard within the financial industry. We've got nice designations as well. With those type of backgrounds and with a combined 25 years working for the biggest asset managers on Wall Street, think of names like BlackRock, Hartford Funds, Leg Mason, Lord Abbott, names like those we'd work for in the past. We said, we can build something that would potentially do a better job keeping pace with home price inflation because the bonds and cash that I have aren't working. I'm getting my butt kicked by inflation. So Taylor and I put our heads together and we came up with a solution that we think

does a fantastic job keeping pace in that market. And we used our background on the investment side to put that together. So I'll kick it over to Taylor, though, to talk a little bit more about, to your comment around Ben, not necessarily agreeing with the inflation, a little bit more on that conversation to get the ball rolling there. So we fit squarely in your camp, Michael, and think home affordability is a real issue in the United States. And we might actually coin it a little differently. We think it's a home down payment crisis because Ben will make the argument that, yes, home prices have skyrocketed, but it's been offset by low mortgage rates, causing that monthly payment that someone has to be affordable. I knew I liked you guys. I knew I liked you.

What that doesn't take into consideration at all is the first hurdle that someone has to jump over in order to afford that home. And that's that home down payment. So let's just take a look at the numbers real quick. So over the last 12 months, home prices have gone up at 19.9%. Yikes. That's more than three times the long-term average. The long-term average home price inflation is 5.4%. And yet when someone tries to save money for a home down payment, largely where do they place that? Cash. And cash. Or a savings account yielding 0.05%. So effectively, someone sat in a savings account over the last 12 months, they've lost 20% purchasing power for their home down payment. So it's just become unaffordable.

And what really has caused that home price inflation? We think it's really two things. And one is a little bit longer term and one's more recent. And Brett mentioned the more recent one being COVID. But the longer term one goes back to the great financial crisis. So if you look at 0405, 0607, people built out their second and third home because they were going to turn them over and make a quick profit. And what happened was at some point we had an inflection point where the housing market

went from really, really attractive to really, really bad because there was a an oversupply and overbuilt. And so that caused housing prices to start crumbling down, spilling over into the banking world, and that causing the economic environment in the United States to come down and crumbles in 2008 and 2009. But what we've done since then is learned a lesson. We can't build as many houses. So for the last dozen years from now until then, then until now, rather, we've underbuilt.

And the pendulum has swung massively in the other direction. Now there is a huge demand for homes. and because we've underbuilt, the supply is not there to meet the demand, causing this startup of inflation. And then the second point that comes along with that is COVID. So, COVID hits, and people in cities look around and say, hey, do we want to be this close proximity to everybody else for health reasons? I don't know. And then the second point of that is the fact that now they realize they can work from home and their employers realize they can work from home. So they start to move outside the city in the suburbs causing bidding wars on houses.

forcing up prices meaningfully and causing this massive home price inflation that we see. So back again to what do you do for that? So people right now generally are sitting in a savings account or in cash yielding 0%. So they've seen a 20% drawdown in their purchasing power of homes. So okay, what's another option? Well, you could go out and buy the S&P 500. What comes along with that? Yes, you could certainly keep pace with inflation, if not beat inflation in home prices.

but obviously it comes along with meaningful, meaningful downside risk. So your average year sees a drawdown in the S&P 500 of 13%. And if you look at some recent years, it's been much more meaningful than that. Last year, the S&P pulled back 34% during COVID. 2018, it was down 20, 2015, it was down 12, 2011 down 19, 2010, down 16, 2008, down 49%. Are people able to stomach that when they have that money earmarked for that home down payment. What if that home comes up on the market and they want to press go and all of a sudden they're down a meaningful amount? So there needed to be a product to bridge the gap between those two

things. So we get dozens of emails every week. By far and away, our younger audience, this is what they ask. And they say, well, what if I put it in this instead? How about REITs and how about stable coins or how about corporate bonds or high yield bonds? And so you're right. The tradeoff people are always trying to figure out is, boy, I could make some more money here. But also, what if when I actually need it and I'm going to close, crap hits the fan and it goes down and then I lose an extra 20 or 30% because the stock market is falling. So how did you guys go about thinking through portfolio construction here in terms of, all right, what's the right balance to take in terms of stocks, bonds, and cash where you're not going to put it in peril by allowing it to get crushed right when you

need it, but you also are going to have a little more growth? It's absolutely the right question. So there needs to be a bridge between that getting smoked in a savings account and taking on all this risk in the S&P 500 and having that garnered downside that is certainly possible. So that's exactly what we tried to build out. And we build out the life goal home down payment investment ETF. The ticker symbol is HOM home. What we try to do is, again, bridge that gap between the two and do it in a product with a name that people understand. In a vehicle, the ETF that can be bought and sold at any point. So if that house hits the market, you can sell out of this home ETF and place your purchase. And it has no minimum.

minimum purchase as well. So I'll hand it over to Brett, but no going into this conversation, the goal, the absolute goal in this portfolio is twofold. Control volatility and downside. And secondly, offset home price inflation, specifically home price inflation. And we have an innovative way of doing that. I'll let Brett talk about it. Before we launched the company, we obviously thought about the idea because of my personal problem where my wife and I were trying to build a house here outside of town, Saratoga Springs. We surveyed around 30 of our friends and family members. And to Taylor's point, the single most important thing that came up is liquidity. We cannot lock the money up because we have to all pull it out to buy that house

or to buy something else if we decide to go a different direction. So again, with the home down payment ETF, there's really two goals. It's a conservative portfolio designed to provide you with a smooth ride, a smooth investor's ride, and then it's also designed to keep pace with the housing market. So if we lift up the hood and look in at the engine of the home ETF, you're going to see approximately 60% bonds, and again, that's to control the downside and the volatility of the portfolio, about 10% commodities or commodity related securities, and that's there for extra diversification, and then about 30% in stocks. And of the 30% in stocks, approximately half, and this is critical, approximately half of that 30% of the stocks is in stocks directly

associated with the housing industry. So think about names to set the stage. Think about names potentially like Home Depot, Lowe's, Trek Decks, Toll Brothers, which is Home Builder, think about lumber companies. If there's more demand than there is supply for homes in the United States, I think anybody can understand that there's going to be a line at Home Depot because people are going to be trying to buy hammers and two by fours and shingles to go build homes because there's good money to be made in that business. That's exactly the situation we find ourselves in right now. So the portfolio is about 60% bonds. That's to provide a smooth, stomach will ride for investors so that they don't get bucked off the train at the wrong time,

about 10% commodities, and that about 30% stocks. And half of the stocks are housing related, like names like Home Depot and Lowe's. One of the reasons why you recommend not investing in the stock market is because if you have a time horizon of call it, I guess, what is this, two to three years, ish? So CNBC recently put out an article, takes the average person slash family six and a half years to save for the down payment for their home. Oh, wow. Okay. The typical numbers are they start around 28 years old and they pull the trigger on the house at about 34 years old. Okay.

That makes sense. With a 20% bump in home prices last year, chances are that six and a half years just went too longer. So the idea is that they're going to be investing their money, their savings, not into cash earning a negative real interest rate, but in something like this that hopefully will at least keep up potentially maybe even beat inflation. So if you looked at the back test of a portfolio like this, how bad did it get? other words, the worst case scenario is you invest in the stock market and just your luck that

when you need the money, the market's down 30%. How bad did it get for this portfolio at its worst? Max drawdown. Phenomenal question. So let's just start at, and you guys are familiar with this, but I'll try to describe it because I'm guessing that most of the listeners may or may not have an idea. But if you think about an efficient frontier, an efficient frontier gives you an example of, say, a half dozen different portfolios that are a different mix of stocks and bonds with performance and standard deviation on the same chart. And it shows that stocks have the highest performance at 100% stocks, and they also have the highest risk. And then bonds have the lowest performance, 100% bonds. And you would think that they have the lowest risk. But it actually

turns out that 25% stocks and 75% bonds is actually lower risk. And it's also the lowest risk of any portfolio you can design more low risks than 100% bonds. So that's kind of where we started out. And then from a back test perspective, we also added in commodities because they do quite well in inflationary environment, which happens to be upon us at the moment. So if we think about last year, which is a pretty recent example, last year, the max drawdown on the portfolio was about 7% and it finished. So like just before COVID really hit in February of 2020, you had about a 7% drawdown on the portfolio, but it finished the year up 9%. And if we were to look at a 20% equity and 80% bond portfolio, if we were to look all the way back to 1926, all the way back

to 1926, you only had 13 negative years. The biggest drawdown over that time period was approximately 11%. So about 85% of the time during the calendar years, this portfolio would end up positive. An S&P 500 is nowhere near that. S&P 500 loses money about every 30%. year. The reason why I like something like this is because, I mean, like Ben said, this really is the most asked question that we get. And sometimes people say, well, what if I take 90% of the money leaving a savings account and then I take the other 10% and either whatever they do, buy Apple, buy crypto, whatever. My worry with something like that is like, it's just a lot of moving parts. And so what I like about a strategy like this is that it does everything for you. It does

the savings part, the investing part, the rebalancing part, all in one ticker. I think one of the biggest things that it does, you guys both have CFAs. You can understand the economic and the portfolio construction component of it. But one of the biggest things it does is it creates a clear indicator or earmarker, if you will, when you look at your trading app, whether it's Robin Hood, Schwab, wherever you're buying it. How much do you have set aside for your done on payment? Okay, let me open up. I have exactly this amount. There's no question what that money is set aside for. It's perfectly designated. There's no discrepancy between a husband and wife, anybody in the family. What's the money set aside for? That's for the home. Don't touch that

money. That's not vacation money. That's for the house down payment. Things like that allow you to get to your goal easier because there's clarity and you can watch it go up in value, which is constructive. It's like a target date fund. If you have the number on your retirement, it helps you stay the course. Absolutely. And the other thing I'll bring up that is important, very important, is the portfolio today has a net yield. So after fees of approximately 2%. Pays that out on a monthly basis. You've got a nice coupon there that's kicked out on a monthly basis. And then I'll also just say, From a theoretical perspective, we run this portfolio in a risk parity fashion. So equal amounts of risk in securities that do well in an expanding economy, a contracting

economy, and then an inflationary economy, and a stagflationary economy. So you may have heard of this. Many of your listeners may have heard of this. This is risk parity. Ray Dalio, biggest hedge fund in the world runs risk parity and is all-weather strategy. And we essentially run a watered-down version of that inside of the H-O-M-E-TF. To your point that you said initially you thought housing prices would fall 30%. I think it seems obvious now why they didn't happen, but at the time, that was the prevailing

idea. People thought that. So let's say you're saving for this and all the millennials have bought a house in 10 years. Your fund is still on for the Gen Z coming up on the next cohort, and they're saving. And we do have a huge crash in housing prices. And housing prices fall 20% in the economy's in the tank. So you have some other pieces of the pie here, essentially, that will hopefully do well in that scenario and keep it up. And so even though you're buying housing prices that are down, parts of your portfolio and be down a little bit too. But you have other pieces in the portfolio that will sort of hold water, I guess. When we open the hood again on the home ETF, HOM, you see it's approximately 60% bonds, potentially even a little more than that.

In some of those bonds are U.S. Treasuries, guaranteed by the U.S. government. And then there's plenty of other investment-grade bonds inside of there. But long-dated U.S. treasuries, so 20-year paper, 20 years and out, U.S. Treasuries, both were up more than 20% in the 2008 crash and in the COVID crash. And then we have other high-quality fixed income in there as well, and even like some cash-type proxies. So we do feel that this is an all-weather portfolio. And if you were to throw different economic scenarios at us, I think there's pieces of

the portfolio that would perform relatively well in all types of economic situations. And that should provide a relatively smooth and most important predictable experience. We're trying to get people a predictable experience because cash, you lost 20% of your purchasing power last year, although it didn't. hurt maybe as much as it would losing it in the stock market, you still lost it. You still lost that purchasing power. Can you guys talk about, is this active or does this follow an index? Like, what if you want to change the rules? This is actively managed. So we've had people ask us, well, the 10 years at 1.6 right now. If the 10 year was at 3%, what would you do differently in the

portfolio? And if home price inflation at that point was running at its historical average of around a 5.4%. We would, again, try to construct a portfolio in such a fashion that it would keep pace with that. So if the 10 years at 3% yield, chances are investment grade corporates are at about four or four and a half percent yield. And then things like high yield or emerging market debt yield more like six and a half or seven. So if that's the case, we're going to reduce our stock position and we're going to buy more corporate bonds, more high yield, more emerging market, things that are lower risk than stocks, but still hopefully can get us to that target of around five and a half, which is long-term home price inflation. What about leverage? Could you lever up bonds

if you want to do or not? No, no leverage. No, risk parity light. Okay. So could you talk about briefly? Like, I'm just curious, the process of starting an ETF. You guys have never done this before. What was that like? Inserting a new company as brothers during a pandemic. I'd love to hear that too. So I'll tell you the background on that. Brett texted me December 17th of last year. And he said, I'm facing a situation. I'm coming up with a solution. And I'm looking around in the market. I think a lot of people are going to be in this situation. I think a lot of people are going to be in this situation, we need to talk. And so he literally presented his idea of saying, hey, I'm sitting in this situation where home price are running away from me and I need to

come up with a solution. So he and I together came up the solution for him personally. And then he said, hey, I wonder if something like this exists in the market. It's got to be. There's got to be an easy way for people to offset home price inflation rather than sitting a savings account. And we looked around at nauseam ourselves and found nothing. And then we started to think about like, hey, is there a business idea in this? And so we hired a third party research. firm to go on and scour the internet, scour patents, scour everything to find out if it was out there and it wasn't. And so Brett and I come from the investment world. And we said we've seen these things launched in the past. They take a year, two years sometimes to launch. Let's see

how we can do this. So we started going down this avenue, not knowing, not having done this in the past, and just beating down different trees on ideas of, hey, where do we go about beginning this? Brett happened to have a buddy who launched an ETF a couple of years ago. It's been wildly successful, so good for him. So we leaned on him for advice. And at the end of the day, there's about 12 partner firms that are involved in this process along with us. And that's the network that you have to create in order to launch us. And we were able to launch it on September 9th of this year after coming up with the idea on December 17th of last year. So it was pretty rapid pace. And it was coming from a stance of we know the investment background, but we don't know

the build out of an ETF. So it was an interesting journey along the way. I'll throw one more thing on that I think a lot of people will get a kick out of. So Taylor and I both happened to play football at Iona, Iona College, which ended up dropping their program. But we had to raise a lot of money to start this company. It's not like we have the financial backing ourselves personally to back all the expenses that go into this. So when we really kind of came up with the idea, we put a couple calls out to our ex-college teammates. And seven of them backed us. Seven ex-Iona college football players backed us through their own money up. It didn't even blink. They said, how much do you need? I love the idea. How much do you need? Them along with some of our best

friends that grew up in our hometown in Del High, New York, put up the initial money, along with Taylor and I's personal money. That got the ball rolling. And since we've raised quite a bit more money, people love that story, man. When you tell them that you haven't seen your college football buddies and graduated in 06, Taylor graduated a little after that, and you call them to catch up, me and say, hey, we're raising some funds and they throw money at you just like that. It was just a really cool wrinkle to the story. That's a great story indeed. So you guys have other funds, other ideas, similar strategy for different life goals.

Before we get out of here, why don't you mention them briefly? We launched five ETFs, home being the flagship product. But we also started to think about, hey, what are other big budget items that we can solve for people that have real needs along with them? So the other ones are the children investment ETF, and that's for costs associated with raising kids. Like, we all know it's expensive to have sports, arts, electronics for their school, et cetera. So all of that, the kind of bend that we have towards the housing market with Home Depot, etc., is going to be a bend towards cost associated raising children there.

We also have the life goal vacation investment ETF. Same thing there where this is a good way to earmark your next dollars for your next vacation. And in that scenario, the individual companies that Brent mentioned in the home fund being things like Home Depot, et cetera, might be things like Southwest Airlines, Airbnb, et cetera. Then we have Savan, S-A-V-N is the ticker on that one. That's our conservative investment. That's kind of thought about as, hey, we want to create a space that someone can put money that's attempting to do better than that of just putting in a savings account. So nothing earmarked for a specific purchase along the way, but that's a place to put your assets. in order to get something more than that 0.05% you're getting in a bank.

What if you're saving up to buy the Constitution? Boy, you better get deep pockets, brother. I do think that, like you said, there's a psychological element where, because I just have it bucketed in my savings accounts, I just label them differently. But you can have it actually separated by fund. But even just mentally, if you have it vacation, down payment, wedding, whatever it is, having those different buckets, I think psychologically can help people put more money in or not touch it at least for other things.

Brett, I have to ask because you started out and saying this is your idea because you saw housing prices get away from you. Yeah, Ben, defend your honor. No, no. I'm just saying, Brett, did you pull the trigger? Are you still saving for a down payment for a place? Our money is still invested. Our down payment is still invested right where it should be in the down payment ETF, the first ever patent pending, ticker H-O-M. because we're in such a unique spot right now in life where we just launched a new company that could be a very big company or potentially I could be out on the street doing whatever I might be doing out on the street if the company were to fail, which I obviously don't think it will, but we're in a unique spot.

So we're still sitting. We're still waiting and we're looking to keep pace with home price inflation inside of that ETF. Let me interject one more thing, just because we didn't touch on the fifth ETF, which the four that I just mentioned are all relatively conservative ETFs, again, lower risk, lower reward potential. The fifth one is the life goal wealth builder ETF. The ticker on that is wealth, WLTH. That is going to be our higher risk, higher potential reward option, thinking about longer term objectives that someone may have like retirement, et cetera. I think this is truly

the future of investing. And this is a very bold statement. But multi asset ETFs are the future of investing. If you're not going for your retirement, which is 10, 20, 30 years out, where it's all risk, put all the risk on the table you can possibly put, and you have to do something that's more intermediate. It's pretty compelling to do it inside of a multi-asset ETF where you are sheltered from most taxes. I kind of agree with there because there isn't just a 60-40 ETF that you could buy or a 25, 75, whatever. Like, you're right, those multi-asset ETFs don't really exist because I think a lot of fund companies don't want to cannibalize other individual funds, so they separate them. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's why it took somebody like Taylor and I in our

investors to stick our neck out. Not that we're going after the business, but it's clear that the business is shifting from financial advisor sold solutions to self-directed solutions. And if you have a lot of people out there that are doing their own thing with Robin Hood, Schwab, Fidelity, whomever it may be, they probably don't have the time, maybe not the interest and probably not the investment background to construct a properly designed conservative investment. It's easy to construct aggressive investments. It's hard to construct conservative investments. So, That's exactly where it is. And the tax efficiency of the multi-asset ETF in a low return environment is critical.

Every time a stock is sold at a capital gain and you rebalance into a bond or gold or whatever it may be if you're not inside of an ETF, a lot of the time, that's a taxable event. If you could do it inside of the ETFs do a really good job of sheltering people from taxable event. So we can turn the portfolio over and I got to put my compliance hat on here. We can't turn it over and say 100% that there's no capital. gains, but most of the time, ETFs don't pay cap gains. So we can turn the portfolio over and manage risk without having that tax consequence, which adds to the bottom line at the end

of the day. What do we call this style of investing? Like, it's not thematic. Obviously, it's not target date, but it's kind of like a target date. What do we think they're going to be called? Coin it here. Goal-based ETFs. Gold-based ETF. Are you the first one? Yeah, to bring it full circle, like, why is it so specific on home? So home, again, And Brett said there's a 60% bond portfolio, 10% in commodities and 30% in stocks. Half of the stock exposure is specific to the name that we're trying to offset the home purchase price of. Half of that stock exposure is housing related.

So there's a very specific need for that product and it's built directly into the solution to help you hedge that home price inflation. It's so natural to think of those two things going together. But it hasn't been done yet. Life goal ETFs are what you call them. Life goal ETS, right, brother? Life goal ETF. Don't go any further than that.

Come on. You know we got all the risk we could possibly put on the table right now. You guys got to help us out. Come on, Michael. Where are we going to send people to go find and learn more? Lifegoalinvestments.com is the easiest place to go. And then also the shameless millennial plug here. You got to follow us on Instagram.

You got to follow us on Facebook. You got to follow us on Twitter. I will cut that part out. What's that? I'm just going to say that one more time. At what? At life goal investments? At life goal investments.

Yep. Okay, guys, this is great. We're excited for you. Big need for the market. So thanks for doing this and thanks for coming on. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

You guys are rock stars. Take it easy, fellas. Thank you again to Taylor and Brett. Again, that's life goal, investments.com. If you want to send a question about saving for a down payment in the future, send it to them. Don't send it to us, right?

Or in the future, we will send you this podcast. Remember, Animal SpiritsPod at gmail.com. Thank you.