anything goes with emma chamberlain - a spiritual awakening, a talk with lisa miller [video]

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

[video available on spotify] today i'm going to be speaking to dr. lisa miller. for so long, i've believed that spirituality and science cannot coexist. but what's so interesting about lisa to me is that she is a living example of the connection between spirituality and science. dr. lisa miller is the founder of spirituality mind body institute at columbia university. she's a professor of psychology, and has spent over a decade studying the impact of spirituality and religion on the brain. for those of you who are spiritual, this conversation with lisa is going to be like music to your ears. for those of you who are not spiritual, this might feel like a lot. but i encourage you to open your mind and heart, and let's get spiritual with lisa. find dr. miller's books on her website: www.lisamillerphd.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I'm going to be speaking to a very, very special and unique individual. We're going to be talking to Dr. Lisa Miller. And what's so interesting about her to me is that she is the living example of the connection between spirituality and science. And for so long, I've believed that spirituality and science do not go hand in science. And for so long, I've believed that spirituality in science do not go hand in hand. Okay, I went to Catholic school and I remember being in science class and thinking, I'm in Catholic school right now, where there's one set of beliefs. And then what I'm learning in science class is

sort of contradicting those beliefs. And from that point forward, I was like, these two things cannot coexist, but I am now starting to understand that that was my misunderstanding. I was missing the point completely. Understandably so, I was 15 and wearing Paxon's skinny jeans. Obviously I had a lot of things to figure out. So we're going to be talking to Dr. Lisa Miller. She is the founder of Spirituality Mind Body Institute

at Columbia University. She's also a professor of psychology. She has spent over a decade studying the impact of spirituality and religion on the brain. And she's a very spiritual woman herself, but she has the science to back it up. For those of you who are spiritual, this conversation with Lisa is going to be like music to your ears. For those of you who are not spiritual in heart to spirituality as a whole. A lot of us are put off by spirituality because we associate it with religion, but religion and spirituality are very different. They definitely exist together often, but they are not the same. All that's say, having open mind.

Let's get spiritual with Lisa. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. Let me tell you my favorite Airbnb story. It's a few years ago, and a big group of friends and I decide we want to go to Joshua Tree. Out in the desert of California, we just want to have a vibe weekend. So we go on Airbnb and we find a beautiful home in the middle of Joshua Tree. And we book it. What I loved so much about this trip was kind of being roommates with my friends for the weekend.

And we all just got to play house. We cooked for ourselves, we cleaned up after ourselves, and we just had a really good time. This house was phenomenal too. I mean, everybody got their own bedroom, everybody had their own private space. We had a private pool, a private hot tub. This house was so aesthetically beautiful

that we were all just happy to be sitting in there and looking at it, because it was just gorgeous. It was super private, so we could all just be ourselves and hang out in the backyard and have fun and truly be by ourselves in the desert. I have a lot of great Airbnb memories. More to come. This episode is brought to you by Bumble. You know, it's really hot, kindness. And I'm not talking about the big stuff, like buying a super expensive gift. I'm talking about the little moments, like when they buy you flowers,

just because, or check to make sure that you got home okay, or when they treat you to your favorite drink, because they saw that you were having a rough day, and you don't even have to say anything. They just do it. That kind of thoughtfulness immediately makes them more attractive. Kindness is sexy. Find it on bumble. My own spirituality is so like, it is so unique to me. It is so specifically like my own connection with the universe that I feel. Like, it's so abstract and only I feel like I can understand it. Like it's something I feel but I cannot explain. You feel it in your deep inner wisdom. Yes. And I think I've actually always had that, but I didn't know what it was. Like I know when I'm connected to the universe. I know when the universe is pushing

me to do something. I know when the universe is telling me not to do something, and I can hear that. And I don't know why. And I've gone through phases where I've been like, I'm losing it because what is that? I've always been very scientific, right? Like, where's the proof of this? Where's the proof of that? That was like my, you know, young trying to feel mature, but I've realized that, you know, spirituality you cannot explain it a lot of times. It's very personal. Well, I love that you said you know, you know in a deep, deep way, hard data. Yeah, 100%.

Because I've listened to the universe, 100% because I've listened to the universe, taken the signs, and it's completely changed my life. Like listening to it and tapping into it and not fighting against it has only led me to a better life. Like to me, that's hard proof. So when it comes in, when you feel the guidance of the universe, is it, do you feel it as sort of tug in the heart? Do you feel it as come here in your mind's eye, direction? You know, people, it comes in on different channels for different people.

I think for me, two ways. Number one, in moments of deep, deep, deep depression and despair, I have like these callings, like where it's like, I know I need to do this. Or even at times, somebody will come to me during one of those moments and say, you should do this. I think her nacity, a human being shows up and that moment.

Yes. Not that five days before, the five days after, but in that moment. Yes, it's like I'm in the depths of my despair and someone will suggest something that clicks. I can think of like two examples. When I was really depressed in high school, one of my darkest, darkest, darkest times,

my dad told me, you need to start a YouTube channel. That's so, that's when that happened, that changed my entire fucking life. To me, that's proof in the pudding. Why would he say that? Like, it's like, yeah, it's true. And yeah, he had reasons to say that, but it's almost like that was so specific.

And I listened and it changed my whole life. When I was going through my first terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible gut, most gut-wrenching breakup. The first breakup's the worst, the worst. It's traumatic. So I went through that first breakup, and I got a call from my agent saying, you just got invited to a fashion show for the first time.

And I loved fashion, but I was like, I don't need to be involved. Like it's fine, like whatever. And that opportunity just came to me in that moment. And I was like, so deep in my despair that I was like, ah, no, I don't even care. Like I just want him back. Like I don't care.

But it's weird that these things come to me in my deepest, darkest moments, so fascinating. You know, you're a beautiful story about it's in our most painful moment where, you know, I can remember when I was 19, I fell in love for the first time. And he was perfect. So yeah, I mean, I always wanted to do it

to someone who looked like him. My type at the time was a wrestler and he looked like he was that. My first time was a wrestler stop. Oh my God, okay, continue. And he looked like he'd been carved out of marble. Oh, the same. Yep, absolutely.

Wow, wow, we're really thinking the same. I think he was like, Yes, and he every time he opened his mouth, it was like pearls, you know, I guess. Yes. He was so interesting and he thought I was interesting. And I'm like, and then after three months, he said, I love you. And I'm like, you love me. Yeah.

And then after five months, he broke up with me. And I was devastated. And I said, well, how, you said you loved me. And now you don't. And he said, no, I truly did love you. And I'm like, you don't love me now. And this is, no, I don't feel that way now. I'm like, well, how can you stop loving someone?

I mean, my mom loves me. And she still loves me. My dad loves it. And it made no sense. And it sent me into a deep quandary of like, was love impermanent. And can we calm love? And if he loved me and then he stopped John come John

Well, this John real you know John's one-way one day and one way the next can we count on anyone can we count on anything? And it was a big existential dive and I got more depressed and more depressed and everything I'd ever taken to be true Somehow got dismembered and upended, and I was really lost. And it wasn't just the breakup. It was this deep dive into, you know, what's life really about? Can we count on each other? And is there really love in the universe? It's growing up and losing that naive sense of trust that we just have in people's word, naive sense of trust that we just have in people's word, have in people's behaviors, we take things at face value and the second that this second dimension is added

where it's like, wait a minute, that might not be real, that might not be true, we can't trust that. I've had the exact same crisis, so I get it. So then, yes, you were sharing, I can say in my case, I really kind of fell through, like I got depressed. And I was exhausted and I'd wake up in the night and I was like picking up my skin. I looked hideous. And I was really awful.

And I took myself to a therapist and I said, listen, I don't know what the meaning in life is. I don't know if love is real. All these things I'd counted on the world I knew doesn't stand. And what actually happened in this year of real struggle was I started feeling just tiny intimations of the heart, these little blasts of love. And then people started showing up as you'd

say, it's a beautiful thing, your path, and started saying, hey, come along with me. You want to go on a trip. blasts of love. And then people started showing up as you'd say it to be deflating your path and started saying, Hey, come along with me. You want to go on a trip? You want to come to our family picnic? They were trail angels showing up. Hey, if you ever thought about trying this new program or this and my heart opened. And I actually found a deeper love. My-hmm. My heart awakened. So I lost the childhood notion that everybody's gonna be loving and loving me forever But what I gained was the universe loves every one of us What is your definition of spirituality because?

You know, I think a lot of people get religion in spirituality confused and understandably so, because it's like religion is very, very spiritual, but it is also different. Like they're very different. Like you can be religious, I'd argue, and not be spiritual. You can be spiritual and not religious.

You can be both at once. So I'm curious what your definition of spirituality is. So from the view of science, spirituality is our deep seat of perception through which we see into the deeper level of life. We are built every one of us with an inborn seat of perception to see into the deeper nature of life. That is our innate human spirituality. We all have this. Religion is how our natural spirituality is often cultivated by about two-thirds of people in the United States are natural capacity to feel the connection to the deeper nature of life to the loving presence. That capacity is shaped by religion for about two-thirds of people in our country. So the sacred texts, the lessons,

the lessons in how to understand the universe. And right by its side is how we treat each other. I think, I guess where I see the difference is religion is it's almost like a school for spirituality in a way. Right, it's almost like going to college or going to high school and like learning about spiritual life. Yeah, but it's like whether or not you apply it is up to you. And whether or not the specific teachings work for you depends. You know, some kids do really well at school and they love the way that they're taught and they use it all and they soak it all

up and then they get a job using what they learned there, right? And it benefits their life. And some people, they don't learn the way that school, it doesn't click for them, right? And they don't apply it and they don't get great grades. And then they end up getting a job elsewhere because that didn't fit. I see that as how organized religion is. It's like, it can help you if it's a good fit. It's a training, it's a guidance into your spiritual awareness.

But not every faith tradition is a match for everyone and not every messenger of a faith tradition is a match. Right, you are built to have a direct, authentic relationship with the flame. You are built to find and know spiritual life. And how you get there, I guess, just is different for everyone. And for some people, they find support and guidance

through their religion, faith tradition. And for some people, they say it's in my own journey. It's in my own reflection. It's in my writing. It's's in my own reflection, it's in my writing, it's on the top of Mount Rainier, or English or National Park, or with my siblings, we get there different ways, but there is one spiritual brain and we all have it. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. Let me tell you my favorite Airbnb story, okay?

It's a few years ago, and a big group of friends and I decide, we wanna go to Joshua Tree. Out in the desert of California, we just want to have a vibey weekend, okay? So we go on Airbnb and we find a beautiful home in the middle of Joshua Tree and we book it. What I loved so much about this trip was kind of being roommates with my friends for the weekend. And we all just got to play house.

We cooked for ourselves, we cleaned up after ourselves, and we just had a really good time. This house was phenomenal too. I mean, everybody got their own bedroom. Everybody had their own private space. We had a private pool, a private hot tub. This house was so aesthetically beautiful that we were all just happy to be sitting in there and looking at it because it was just gorgeous. It was super private so we could all just be ourselves and hang out in the backyard and have fun and truly be by ourselves in the desert. I have a lot of great Airbnb memories.

More to come. Metrolinx and cross links are reminding everyone to be careful, as Eglinton Cross-Town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, this trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware and stay safe. When it comes to spiritual guidance, you know, this feeling that we're being spoken to by, or led, I guess, by a God or the universe. Everybody's picture of what that is is different. Do you think

that that's coming from something outside of ourselves, or is that coming from within? Because that's something I've never quite understood. When it comes to my own spirituality, I feel like it's coming from outside of me. Like, it doesn't feel like it's coming from within me. I think there are parts of it that are, but I feel like there's coming from within me. I think there are parts of it that are, but I feel like there's another force.

Absolutely, there's another force, it's spirit. See, yes, but it's like what is, is that like, a part of our brain that's disconnected from the other part, or is that something truly outside of our body, or is it something we can't even comprehend? Like what is that? So I would say that we all have an instrument for knowing. We have an awakened heart,

we have an awakened brain, we have an instrument for knowing. And we can pick up on guidance, we can pick up on spirit. Consciousness or spirit, I think is both outside us and inside us. I think it penetrates and is in every little bit of life. And so it moves in and through us and it moves through one another. The way that your father knew just the day, that was the double door opening for the next whole new chapter in your life. Yeah. So I think we're tapping in to one sun, one source of life and that it's in us through us and among us. Spirit is in us, through us, through us, spirits among us. And New York's Quizzle is attuned.

When something can't be perfectly explained, perfectly shown to me, This is what this is. I have a tendency to almost gaslight myself and say what you're feeling is invalid because where is it? You feel this connection to the universe, something larger. But where is it? You know, where is it? Like show us where it is. But then I'm also like, but Emma, you feel that you feel that? Do you need any more proof? Why do you need more proof? It's this inner battle. And I think for a lot of people that inner battle prevents tapping into one spiritual side. And I know for me, I'm constantly fighting that voice saying, but where is it? Is that real? How do you know that's real? Is it enough

proof to just feel inside that there's something there? Interknowing is hard data. Interknowing is real. It's absolutely real. And as you said, when we listen to our interknowing, and we say, okay, my gut instinct says, every single day, I go right at this corner, but I'm something's telling me to go left. And there I find a child in need. Or there I find a friend I haven't seen in seven years that I'm so excited to see again That deep gut instinct that says no today turn left Could actually open up double doors in our lives because When we only base our decisions on what's happened in the past every day

I go right and I need to go to the grocery store and I've got to meet my friend and we're having a coffee I'm using data that to the second is outdated. It's what I've done yesterday in the day before the day before that, but that gut instinct, that inspiration, that's mind's eye, where you suddenly see now I should go left, you hear, go left. That has information that's yet to unfold. That has information that opens up where we're about to heal strike to something new. So our gut instincts are intuitions when we listen to synchronicity, that knowing inside, that is the best knowing we have. That gut instinct that we think, well, should I really listen to that? You know, that, that is what will guide you.

That is the bedrock. Do you think it's harder to be spiritual today? I think it's more necessary to be spiritual today. I agree. It's because like we look back and religion used to be, which, you know, as we mentioned earlier, isn't always spirituality necessarily, though I think in history, it was.

People needed religion back then. And, you know, now modern religion is not working for a lot of people. A lot of people are, like, it's outdated, and in some ways, maybe it is, and it's more complicated now. The relationship to religion is complicated, and I think a lot of people are like, well, I still need something, I need to be spiritual,

but also a lot of people are like, all of this stuff's outdated. Where's the cold, hard evidence? And I feel like my sort of situation with like my depression and then dad telling me to start YouTube, what would have happened otherwise? Like I can't imagine, it changed my life in the most insane way.

I can't even like, to me, that's, I cannot deny that. When somebody hasn't had an experience like that. How do you explain to them what being spiritual is? Because there are a lot of people who don't have that proof, you know, in their own lives yet. It's yet to come. So, or maybe they have, and they just haven't seen it, or they've been pushing it off. Like, how do you speak to somebody who maybe hasn't had this intense moment that's so clear?

Maybe we do a practice, a brief practice? Oh, yeah. That invites people into their own awareness. Of course. Okay, beautiful. This practice I call the road of life. And it's just, you know, a minute and a half. Let's do it.

Okay, great. I mean, invite you if you'd like to take a few breaths, close your eyes. Clear out your inner space. I invite you to locate a time where you wanted something so badly. It could have been him or her or them to say yes, to love me. It could have been a job, an internship. It could have been somewhere you wanted to go,

somewhere you wanted to travel. You got everything set up. It was yours. That job, him, heard them. That school, that opportunity, you did everything right. A plus B plus C, research, strategy, you were clever. You made us tactic, you went from your red door. That is your red door, you grabbed the handle, but it stuck. You can't believe it stuck, because you did everything right. You did A plus B plus C, you work clever, you tactically were on the nose and you kicked the door. You might in time get frustrated or even depressed, maybe more depressed. But only because that red door was stuck. You had no choice, you pivot, you turned 40 degrees, you turned 120 degrees, and over there is a wide open yellow, yellow door, a shining, open, yellow door.

You might have said, yellow doors don't exist. You hadn't heard of yellow doors. You never thought of yellow doors. On the other side of the yellow door is someone more right for you that makes you feel alive, that makes you feel at home in your inner heart. Is a job that makes you feel creative and energized, is a mentor, is a friend. That yellow door that has everything to do with who you are and where you are today, it was not what you had wanted, It was better than what you wanted. And as you sit back now and you think of that stuck red door in the hairpin turn, the

brought you to the wide open yellow door that has everything to do with who you are and where you are today. Was there anyone standing at that hairpin turn who said, Hey, it's time for you to look at that yellow door. Hey, when I was on this path, I found a yellow door, someone who gave you information, guidance, maybe even direction, a trail angel. And as you sit back now and look at that stuck red door, hairpin turn trail angel,

and wide open yellow door that has everything door hairpin turn trail angel. And wide open yellow door that has everything to do with who you are and where you are today. How are the most important parts of our lives found? Is it narrowly through planning and chipping away? Sure, we've got to be prepared and work hard, but that alone is insufficient. Because in the greatest moments of struggle and disappointment and loss, is it possible that we are not narrowly makers of our path but discoverers of our journey?

And instead of asking, why didn't I get what I wanted and why didn't he still like me, what if we shift the conversation with life and awaken to what is life showing me now? What is the universe revealing to me now? How am I being guided? Where is the yellow door? And finally, as you sit way back, stuck red door hairpin turn trail angel and wide open yellow door. Is it possible that you have been on a spiritual path all along?

Where in this journey is guidance, the universe, whatever your word is. God, Spirit, is the universe in the wide open yellow door and the stuck red door. Is spirit in your trail angel and your openness to be in dialogue with the deeper presence in life, the great positive sacred force that's loving, holding, and guiding. Is it possible that you have been awakened, that you have been on a spiritual path all along? I just transcended through time. No, no, I'm not kidding. I just transcended through time. I just literally feel like I ran around the universe and came back. I was so there with you. I

I was so there. It almost freaks me out how there I was. That was so phenomenal. Would you consider sharing a bit? For me, this is something that I so deeply need to be reminded of is every roadblock that comes up needs to be seen as a gift. Every single one. You know, we all have a tendency to experience something that goes against what we thought we wanted, and to be angry at the universe at first, like why is this happening? And it's okay, I think, to be sad. But I think it could be life-changing to see every challenge and every pivot as a gift.

It is a gift. And when you were talking about it, it just made me think about in relationships, career related things where I've been devastated, like beside myself devastated. I was thinking about in those moments, if I could have shifted that and said, this is a beautiful pivot from what you thought your path was.

But I also think that there's something to be said for letting go a little bit. What if you're never too hyper focused on the red door and you're always looking around so that you can always sort of see everything? You keep that eye open. I was having a lot of a minute. So a broad lens, a big fluid flowing with being.

What is life showing me now? I love this shift from why is life happening to me? To why is this happening for me? Yes. So let's scan and keep open to the yellow door that I can only see because this red door is stuck. That yellow door is a gift. And all these beautiful treasures that you've shared about the podcast, about fashion,

these double doors opening, or because you pivoted and said, yes, what is the universe revealing to me now? What it might be and invited to become by the universe. That's a spiritual path. 100% and it's not radical control. I think radical control keeps us trapped in yesterday's ideas. And when we awaken to the universe, saying, Emma, come with me. It's so much easier, isn't it? Like to just sit back and relax and do your best in life. You know, work towards your goals, work towards what you want in life, while still keeping an open mind about what the end looks like.

You know, I've been really thinking about this a lot. It's like you can't be so obsessed with what every step is gonna look like. The beautiful balance. And the awakened brain, I talk about way of two neurosurcates. And one is our achieving brain. You know, I've got to have it, I want to have it. I've got it. I can't sit home eating ice cream.

I've got to go out and try and our awakened brain. And our awakened brain is the one, and every single one of us that hears the call. You know, Emma, you're being called for a podcast. Yeah. And our awakened brain is the one, in every single one of us, that here's the call. You know, Emma, you're being called for a podcast. Yeah. And to be able to receive guidance and know that we are left and held and guided, we are never alone.

That is our awakened brain. It's there for all of us. And yes, that is hard data. When we perceive that deep guts feeling feeling that knowing of the heart, sometimes in my mind, I can hear it or envision where we're going next. That is very powerful. That is the best information we have. That is the truest source of guidance we have. So true. Slay the holidays with Real Canadian Super Stores PC holiday inside his report serve apes under $16 like PC

Palenta fries PC cranberry free pastry bites and PC eggplant parmesan a sportly attendling wow only at your super holiday store Can you take a little bit deeper into the difference between the achieving brain and the awakened brain are these? Two sides of the brain that can coexist? Are they separate sort of mindsets? So you're either experiencing one mindset or you're experiencing the other, just dig into what these are, I guess. So, every one of us learns very well in school, first grade, second grade all the way through, to plan and to strategize. And it's helpful, and we've got to pay the rent, we've got to pay the rent.

But that alone is not going to fill the hole in the heart. That will not fill the bucket of life. And all the planning and all the strategizing in the world doesn't prepare us for the knock at the door for our calling, our path, the miracles that line our journey. And so we need to engage the wholeness of how we're built. Our brain literally has a station in it, circuits through which we can perceive the guidance. It's literally a shift in the attention from the dorsal to the ventral attention network. We're built with these shifts from

exactly as you described it, Emma, this narrow bowling alley looking to life. You know, how am I going to get this? This is what I wanted. I have got to get this job. I've got to get him to back to, wait a minute, the flood lights go back on. Life is eliminated. And wow, there is a big open double door right here, a double yellow door. So our awakened brain is our gift. We have it. And at any moment, we can awaken to the love that connects us and guides us to the guidance that our heart or intuition, sometimes even we can hear and see, we can awaken to the spirit through life. And when we do, we're walking our authentic life. And we can find all sorts of opportunities where people are showing up for us and

beautiful moments where we can show up for one another. Because it's all actually, you know, not just a world of fractured people in different places. It's a world where we're magnificently unique and incredibly beautifully diverse and we're part of one family of life, one source, one spirit. So you talk about the connection between spirituality and science, right? Because it's not just something that we feel there is also science to back it and this is something I actually didn't know so you are going to be opening my mind as well as everyone else's to how Science and spirituality become one. How do you even study something as abstract and?

internal as spirituality? So am I able to say that the science, there's moments as a scientist, a queer scientist, that when we look through the lens, it is jaw drop-inly breathtaking. And the science on human spiritual life is truly awe-inspiring. It turns out that when we use the many different lenses in science, we see first and foremost that every single one of us is a naturally spiritual being. Just as we're physical, emotional, mental beings, we are inherently spiritual beings

as we're physical, emotional, cognitive beings, so to we are spiritual beings, every one of us. We know this through the lens of science using a twin study. Switching lenses, science has a whole stack of lenses. We can look inside the brain. We can use an MRI study, and it turns out that within every human being on Earth, there is a common shared one spiritual brain and we all have it. And this brain, our awakened brain, has four components.

In times of joy, in times of sorrow, we can engage our awakened brain and see into life in a much deeper way that just opens up dimensions. The components are that we perceive and know. No, we are loved and held. The bonding network comes up online just as it was there as children in our parents arms. We shift attention networks from the narrow bowling alley. I've got to have it. Why am I not getting what I want? Dorsal attention to the big, broad, bottom-up, ventral attention network where the lights go on, and many people say, hey, a new direction pops. We see we are loved and held guided. And then finally, the parietal region that puts in and out hard boundaries.

So we know that, you know, we are in LA or we are in New York or Beijing or Mumbai, we have a different GPS coordinates. We have different biobody suits, but we are also part of one source of life. White caps on one ocean, interbean, as Tignat Haam said. We are one family of life. We are loved and held guided and never alone. This seat of perception,

the frontal temporal network, the shift in attention network and theil region allows us to perceive. So this is not a belief. This isn't a leap of faith. This is a deep seat of perception, our awakened brain, through which we see into the deeper true nature of life. Let's see if I'm understanding this properly.

We're wired to have the ability to see the world in a way that goes hand in hand with spirituality. Yes. The spirituality itself is not what is studied, but rather the fact that in the brain, like we can't see somebody thinking of, we're not measuring God. Exactly. Yeah, we're not measuring to perceive the world in a way that awakens us spiritually, like yes. There are certain animals probably

that are biologically created to perceive the world a certain way so that they survive, right? And then we are also like created biologically a certain way so that we can see the world in a way that is spiritual. Is that it? So that's the first piece that we are built to perceive a spiritual world. Then the second piece, as just as we're wired to see chairs and tables, so we don't bump into them. When we see into the world at the spiritual level, life unfolds, real life, high traction

life in a way that is far more glorious. We are healthier. We're 80% protected against addiction. We are 70% protected against really dangerous risk taking. In this pandemic, the tragedy, the real epidemic for Gen Zs, tragically suicide, the rate of death by suicide, rivals the rate of death by auto accident in high school. Well, a strong spiritual awareness is 82% protective

against completed suicide when shared. When we share our understanding spiritually with one another, we are forfist protected against the most heinous pandemic. It isn't COVID or cancer for Gen Z, it's suicide. And we have the antidote. If there were a little pill like melatonin or C, and I said, hey, you could take this and be 82% protected against the pandemic, this title wave. So the felt sense of, and it's a very real feeling of loneliness and isolation, the nagging fear of inadequacy, that has an antidote. And it's knowing our deep true, knowing, perceiving how we're built to see

our true spiritual nature. I don't know. And I don't know if this is just now or maybe this has existed throughout time, but I think because of social media, the internet, all of these things that sort of dehumanize other people in a way. I feel like it's harder than ever to be spiritual now,

because I'd argue, and sort of what I'm absorbing through this conversation is how being spiritual involves more than just oneself, but it's also the entire world around you, right? And the way that the internet and modern technology disconnects us from the real world, it just makes so much sense to me why I think it's really hard to be spiritual now, because we're not as in touch with the world around us on so many levels.

Like we're disconnected from everything. And the world is banking on Gen Z to realize your spiritual heart. Yeah. Every era that has been the young adults that bring culture forward, right? In the civil rights movement, it was people in their 20s that brought forward a new society of greater equality. Well, right now, this is a world that is full of fracturedness, absurdly polarized, you know, unnecessarily bickering people. And there's a deeper reality that we can know through our awakened brain, through our awakened awareness. There is

a deeper reality of love and oneness and connection, where, okay, yes, even if people happen to have a different idea or happen to have a different political party, can I love you more deeply as a soul on Earth? It's, see, that's the thing that's been so, for me, really like spiritually, I guess, disheartening over the last few years. And I mean, I think the way that people treat each other, in the way that people feel comfortable treating themselves even online, is I think that it's destroying the human spirit.

Like I think, you know, because it's not face to face, because it's, there's something in between. People behave in a way that is completely evil. But also disrespectful towards themselves, you know, by maybe portraying themselves, they, you know, edit themselves to look a certain way, or they do whatever, you know, to look a certain way online, which I would say is somewhat disrespecting yourself. It's like, you look great. Like, don't do that. You know what I mean? That's not fair to you. I feel like our comfortability to do things that are spiritually bad for us is we're more comfortable doing those things because it's not face to face. And so that's creating a lot of really depressed, anxious kids.

I so agree with you that, you know, it's actually the same awakened awareness through which we can know this deep perceived of perceiving through which we know we are loved and held guided and never alone by the universe. Is the same deep seat of perception in our brain through which we can show up for one another to be loving and holding, guiding and never leave anyone alone. So what you are diagnosing, right, as our societal ill is indeed an atrophy of our natural awaken awareness, of our natural spiritual awareness,

and we can build it back up. How are we to do that? I think it's especially my generation so chronically online, and it's so like, by the way, me too, like me too, in every way, shape or form. I try to have a healthy balance with it, but I'm starting to question if that's even possible. If we were to take away the social

media, which by the way, I don't even want to do. Like, I enjoy social media, but I also know that it destroys me mentally, and it makes me less spiritual. It like immediately just takes me down to this level that I'm better than. But there's something about social media that just takes me down immediately to this lower vibration of thinking without, no matter what, I'm realizing. So part of me wonders, is it possible to participate in these things

that make our lives easier and more accessible and still find our spiritual awakening? Like, is that possible? So Emma, you are opening the door of using the public squares of plays for authenticity, for awakening of our natural spiritual heart. May we do another practice? Oh my God, I love to. Okay, this is an invitation. I invite you to close your eyes, clear out your inner space.

This is an invitation to open your awakened brain. And your inner chamber, I invite you to set before you a table. This is your table. Into your table, you may invite anyone living or deceased who truly has your best interest in mind. Anyone living or deceased who truly has your best interest in mind. And with them all sitting there, ask them if they love you. And now you may invite your higher self, the part of you that is so much more than anything that you may have done or not done, anything you have or not have, your true eternal higher self. And ask you if you love you.

And now you may invite your higher power. However you know, whatever word is yours, universe, spirit, God, your higher power, and ask if they love you. And now with all of these people sitting here right now, what do they need to tell you now? What do they need to share? What do you need to share? What do you need to know? And when you're ready, I invite you back.

This is your counsel and they are always there for you. Who shows up may change depending on where you are in your journey and you can ask what is on your heart. This is your natural awakened brain. No one can ever take your awakened brain away from you. This is yours. You have a direct connection to source. Well, I so rarely can snap into like that. I so rarely can snap into like that. There's something about you that is so special because I, it's like I had the ability to like

snap into it so easily. I don't know. I think we've created a very, very unique space because I was able to just like get there immediately. And I think a lot of young people underestimate, I think, myself included how important this is, like how really, really important this is. And I think it's very obvious, like what is beneficial about being in touch, like having a spiritual awakening, understanding that side of yourself. But for people who are listening,

how can it change your life? I think a lot of people are like, yeah, maybe it'll make me happier, but also going out tonight with my friends will make me happy, which is true. That can be really fun and can make you happy. But I think these assignments that you give yourself, like I'm going to become more spiritually awake, can feel, it's delayed gratification. So there's less motivation to have that, to dedicate yourself to that. What do we have to gain from that? I think people who need that final push could benefit from hearing what you've seen through your work. How does this change people's lives?

So when we started by talking about how in our most painful hour, in our darkest hour, it turns out that despair and depression can be a knock at the door for an opening, really an awakening, to a whole nother deeper felt love and buoyancy and connection and guidance that depression is the knock at the door for awakening, for awakening of our awareness. Well, as we just very gently on our own terms nourish our own spiritual awareness, you know, and whether it's through meditation or being in nature, whether it's through purely honoring the gift of an inspiration, a direct hit in the

heart, a gut instinct, a knowing. When we honor our spiritual awareness, it grows stronger, it becomes the go to place. And suddenly, all of life, as you said, the floodlights come back on. We start to see yellow doors opening to people who we absolutely adore, to new experiences, to new jobs, to new types of a life we didn't even know existed. Because our big life, our biggest fullest, most inspired life, has yet to be brought into form. We don't know what that is, but it is far more full of love and far more shining and radiant and meaningful,

deeply meaningful than anything we might have envisioned. It is a path forward so that our walk becomes one with a beautiful big spiritual footprint. What would you say to somebody who has gotten dealt a really challenging hand in life, right? Somebody who, not their fault, they've just had what seems to be terrible circumstance after terrible circumstance.

Maybe it started when they're young and it just, it seems like a domino effect. And none of it is their fault, things that, it's all things that have happened to them. I think people like that, they can go in two directions, you know. They can lean into the spiritual side of themselves out of necessity, but I think a lot of people lose faith completely. They're like, well, how is there something out there protecting me? Because I have yet to be protected by anything ever in my life. How, what would you say to somebody who's in that position? So, the science has this beautiful lens through which we've seen that trauma, real despair,

post-traumatic stress disorder, anxious flashbacks, trauma is a gateway to growth. And when science turns the lens and looks real close at how that growth unfolds, it turns out that if I can access that very experience, the trauma itself that day, put it in words, share it with people I trust, and then shine the light of spiritual awareness onto that moment. God, what are you showing me here? Spirit. Where are you here? There is the profound resuffling of meaning. I didn't fall through the black hole. I am still here. I was caught. So post-traumatic spiritual growth can come out of trauma. And when we choose that work, and it can take time, it's not just two weeks,

it can take years, right? Post- I realize on the other side that I had been held all along. So, it's a matter of looking back and saying terrible things did happen to me and they're real and they're real and they're not fair in its sucks, but also look at how I got through something that's so terrible. I got through that. And now I'm able to help more people as a result in a way. Your spiritual teacher and your walk and in your talk and your spiritual warrior. It's the force of love and renewal is far greater than the force of entropy and destruction. This spiritual awakening of it all is, it's so exciting and we can all do it right now.

And you have inspired me today to further that growth and put some more attention to it. And I feel like I have more knowledge on how to do that now. And I can imagine so many people out there right now are feeling the same way. Emma, I honor your awakened walk and your awakened life into the beautiful Gen Z. Let's awaken our world. Let's do it. Let's wake up. You all have an awakened brain. Yes. And we're counting on you. Yes. Yes. Thank you so much. Lisa is such a phenomenal

human being. And I'm so incredibly grateful that she took the time to speak to me and honestly give me another spiritual awakening that I was not expecting. I was not expecting to have that today. It really did trigger a lot of thoughts in my brain that I think needed to be triggered. If you enjoyed this episode, go check out Lisa's books. She's the author of several books, including the spiritual child, the new science of parenting for health and life-long thriving for my parents out there, and the awakened brain, the new science of spirituality in our quest for an inspired life. Go check those books out.

Go check those books out.