anything goes with emma chamberlain - a talk with mac demarco (revisit) [video]

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

[video available on Spotify] today i have a very special guest. someone who actually shifted my music taste in a big way. today we have mac demarco. when i was like 15 i found his music on vine, and i've been such a big fan ever since. i think what's so special about mac’s music is the way it always sounds like him. whether it's kind of funky, deep and sentimental, or just an instrumental, it always feels like him. his last album having almost 200 songs and being like nine hours long is so intriguing to me. he's going the complete opposite direction of the industry, and i must know more. so i present to you, mac demarco. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, it's me, Emma. And right now, I'm on a holiday break. I'm taking a few weeks off to spend time with family, rest my brain, and sleep as much as possible. But in the meantime, I'm rerunning some of my favorite episodes from this year, just in case you haven't heard them yet, or just in case you want to hear them again. So I hope you enjoy this episode rerun, and I'll be back with new episodes on January 11th, 2024.

Happy holidays. I love you. I appreciate you. And I'll talk to you soon. OK, enjoy the episode. Today I have a very, very special guest. Someone who I've been a fan of for, I don't know, six, seven years.

Someone who actually shifted my music taste in a big way, single-handedly. Today we have Mac DeMarco. When I was like 15, I found his music on Vine. Who remembers Vine? I found his music on Vine. There was like this artsy edit of, I don't know, like in anime movie and there was a song in the background and I was like, wait, what is that?

And I looked in the comments and it was like freaking out the neighborhood by Mac DeMarco and I was like, who's Mac DeMarco? And I was obsessed. And I've been such a big fan of him ever since. So getting to speak with him today is, honestly, I'm gonna shit myself, but I'm so excited.

I think what's so special about Max Music is the way it always sounds like him. When you hear a Mac tomorrow song, you're like, that's a Mac tomorrow song. Whether it's kind of funky or it's more deep and sentimental or it's just an instrumental, more deep and sentimental or it's just an instrumental that rhymed it always feels like him. He're super casual in a lot of ways. His last album having almost 200 songs and being like nine hours long. He's going the complete opposite direction of the industry. And I must know more, so I present to you crumbling up my script, MacDomarko. This episode is brought to you by Bumble.

You know, it's really hot, kindness. And I'm not talking about the big stuff, like buying a super expensive gift. I'm talking about the little moments, like when they buy you flowers, just because, or check to make sure that you got home okay, or when they treat you to your favorite drink because they saw that you were having a rough day. And you don't even have to say anything, they just do it. That kind of thoughtfulness immediately makes them more attractive. Kindness is sexy. Find it on Bumble. This episode is brought to you by Hey You, the streaming home of Reality TV. Hey You

gives you access to every episode of all your favorite reality TV franchises. This same day is the US, the real housewives, van der Pum rules, below deck, southern charm, summer house, and so many more. Get your daily dose of drama. Try it for free today at www.haew.com. Tees and sees apply. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. Let me tell you my favorite Airbnb story.

Okay, it's a few years ago. And a big group of friends and I decide we wanna go to Joshua Tree. Out in the desert of California, we just want to have a vibey weekend, okay? So we go on Airbnb and we find a beautiful home in the middle of Joshua Tree. And we book it. What I loved so much about this trip was kind of being roommates with my friends for the

weekend. And we all just got to play house. We cooked for ourselves, we cleaned up after ourselves, and we just had a really good time. This house was phenomenal too. I mean, everybody got their own bedroom. Everybody had their own private space. We had a private pool, a private hot tub. This house was so aesthetically beautiful that we were all just happy to be sitting in there and looking at it because it was just gorgeous. It was super private so we could all just be ourselves and hang out in the backyard and have fun and truly be by ourselves in the desert.

I have a lot of great Airbnb memories. More to come. I'm so excited to talk to you. Me too, here we are, finally. All these years later. I know, and I mean, it is cool because I feel like I actually got to be kind of friends with you. Yeah. Like in secret.

At Coachella mostly. It's so weird because Coachella's the last place I would expect to see you. I kind of, you know, I feel the same. Like last year when I met you there. Yeah. That was, I always had this rule where I was like, I will never go to this festival if I'm not playing it.

There's no way. When last year was the first year where I just went, I didn't even get up with anybody. I just went and chilled. Did you love it? Here's the thing. I had just freshly quid smoking. So I was still in this like kind of,

when you quit smoking, I think when you smoke as much as I did or when you are that addicted, it kind of feels like you're on mushrooms for a couple of weeks. Totally. I was like in the throes of feeling like completely insane. But the thing was, I was like, if I can go to Coachella and not smoke any cigarettes there, then I'm done. And it was no problem, so.

It's an easy place to distract yourself because... It's insane. It's like running a marathon. Yeah, it's completely insane. Going to Coachella is like running a marathon, I would say more than other festivals. I'll say this. Yeah.

That last year, I remember feeling quite tired. My feet hurt. I got blisters. My legs hurt. I think it's a testament this year, not so bad. Okay. Maybe I'm a little bit more fit than last year, just a little bit. Okay.

My band. When you're writing music, going straight into it. Sure, sure. When you're writing music, are you thinking of, you know, how it's going to be played at a show? Or are you writing it just because it feels right to you in the moment? There was a point where I thought of that. I think it was kind of like, I would, you know, I'd keep in mind the configuration of the band that I had at the time. And it's , you know, because if I put an extra guitar line or if I put an extra synthesizer, I was like,

how are we gonna, how are we gonna do this? But that was at a point where it was like, we toured so much that if I had a month or two off in between tours, I was like, I have to make the album now or else I'm never gonna be able to make it. So it was, I think it was very ingrained in that nowadays. I don't, I don't, I don't think about it at all, but I mean, the situation now where we're going

on tour in July, and it's kind of like, you know, I'm listening to this record that we're going to perform. And I'm kind of like, there's like, you know, four claves on a song. I'm like, I don't really, I don't know how I'm going to do this, but we'll figure it out. This kid Darryl, the plays of me right now, he's a bass player, he plays with me. And he, he was saying the other day that he feels like my music is kind of zen in a way or balanced. Where it's like, there's the drums, you get the vocal, two guitars, it's all, you know, and that's, there's usually like a set number,

it's like a set dinner or something. It's like, you know, so I think I used to kinda, it's hard for me to break out of that. I like, I like evenness and I like simplicity, you know, and I'm just like, there's something I like too about maybe a unperformable music, you know? Totally.

I mean, you just released, I was so excited to see you releasing 199 songs on OneWangji. That's right. I was just on a road trip home. It was like four hours. I mean, I crushed half of it. The way that you're releasing music right now is so intriguing to me.

And it's so refreshing. I mean, number one, all the titles are like, they're just biolinous. Yeah, it's like a date code. That actually came from this guy, Ryuichi Sakamoto, he recently passed away. I wanted a great, I think, you know, advanced music in a crazy way, great, great musician, real hero of mine.

He put an album out called 12. I think at the turn of this year, maybe the early last year, I can't remember exactly when it came up, but it was just 12 songs and the date that he recorded at the moment, which I was like, well, and I kind of started, I had done that date coding thing for my recordings already, but I, you know,

doing it in the exact way he did it's kind of like a little, you know. A nod. Yeah, I love the, I mean, he was incredible, it really changed my... I need to check him out. Incredible, one of the best, of all time. Do you feel like kind of removing the sort of pressure to like come up with this perfect name of the song

and, you know, select which songs you wanna release and which ones you wanna hold back? Do you feel like not participating in that sort of hype, I guess, if you will, sort of makes you feel more creatively free, or is it just are you just kind of doing what feels right and being intuitive? Well, with this, with the one Wayne G, it's interesting to me that people have been as receptive with the, I thought I was just going, well, there's all out and all, not going to, you know, for me, it was like, I'm going, I wanted to collect every, like, you know,

scrounge everything up. Yes. And put it out so I can walk past it. You know what I mean? Because the thing is, you know, there's a couple songs on there that are like finished songs with lyrics or whatever. There's a lot of stuff that, you know, kids have really been gravitating this one that sounds like somebody just banging on pipes

or whatever. There's stuff that's like, you know, very like, almost, you know, as musical, but it's not like, it's a toe in the line. It's almost not, you know, it's a mix bag. For example, the songs that have finished, right? They sit there on my hard driver on the computer and they go, put me on the next album.

Totally. Remember me? Remember me? I'm a pretty good little song. Remember me. And you know, it drives you crazy because then I try and record them again and it doesn't ever feel the same way

as the original version. And, you know, but they're good songs and I want people to hear them, but if there's not a really a way of presenting them. And it's interesting, I think that the way that the music industry is kind of structured right now, it's, yeah, I think that's what people find refreshing. It's like, why is he doing this?

It doesn't make any sense. How is he going to make the money? What's going on? Totally. Which is like, I don't really care either know, I don't really care either way. Like, I'm just glad people listen to him. But it's not, you know, if it makes people kind of question the way that they ingest my art or art in general, like that's great. You know, maybe, or maybe it's not, I don't really know. But I'm happy they're out there and kids seem to be enjoying themselves.

The kids are loving them. Yeah, it's cool. This episode is brought to you by Hey You, the streaming home of reality TV. Hey You gives you access to every episode of all your favorite reality TV franchises, the same day as the US, the real housewives, van der Punt rules, below deck, southern charm, summer house, and so many more. Get your daily dose of drama. Try it for free today at hayu.com. This episode is brought to you by Sunwing Vacations. Get ready for a season of savings on the huge range of experiences available from Sunwing vacations.

Sunwing vacations gives you value, okay? You get premium, all-inclusive experiences for a good price. You can escape the winter season without compromising on quality or experience. Take a break from the cold weather, okay? Go somewhere tropical, and don't break the bank while doing it. With Sunwing, you can also say goodbye to the stress of planning a vacation. They put together packages so that you can just choose what makes the most sense for you and your family, and your friends, and the rest is taken care of. And there are so many options. Go to Mexico, go to the Caribbean, or Caribbean, depending on how you pronounce it.

Maximize your vacation, book now with your trusted travel agent, or visit sunwing.ca to save more and do more today. I think seeing, you know, your last album and like experiencing it in such like a just normal, like seeing it on Spotify, I'm like, oh shit, okay. It really did make me realize how incredibly calculated I think music has become for the most part. Yeah, it's weird. You know, it feels, well, just doesn't feel like the music, it's all about the music as much anymore. It feels like it's about the way it's perceived in, you know, in, on visual terms.

Yeah. From a press perspective, whatever. So that I think that's why this is so refreshing. It's because it's just an FU to all of that, whether you meant it to be an FU to all of it or not. I wasn't really thinking of, I was just, he didn't say FU, but I, you know, I will own the FU. That's no problem for me.

Yeah. But it is, I mean, yeah, it's fun. I was thinking about it a lot the other day with the industry and everything, and I think that there's a lot of problems, and things are kind of weird, and TikTok makes things really weird, and the way that labels are kind of like trying to get money,

and everybody wants to get the money, and you gotta do this, and you gotta do that. I of like trying to get money and everybody wants to get the money and you gotta do this and you gotta do that. I figured out how to fix it all. We burn all the money. We gotta burn all the money. We gotta burn it all up. Because if nobody's making it and you can't,

there's no opportunity to make it. And we can have fun. Exactly. And people will be just making for the sake of making, which I think is like such a beautiful, music is so beautiful. Yes. You know, I mean, sometimes it's tough,

because sometimes even going to a place like Coachella, it is like such a beautiful, music is so beautiful. Yes. Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's tough, sometimes even going to play like Coachella, it's like, you know, you forget about the music sometimes it's like more about butt cheeks or whatever I want to go on there. 100% Which is, I don't have a problem with butt cheeks, they're cool too, like whatever, you know, but it's like, it was refreshing. I think to have, you know, to be able to, you know, I got a collection of these things,

I like them, even if the label or, you know, I think the people that are working with me on it were like, this is a to have, you know, to be able to, you know, I got a collection of these things, I like them, even if the label or, you know, I think the people that are working with me on it were like, this is a good, good idea, you know, but it's nice to just kiss it goodbye. And now I can walk forward. I can walk forward in peace, unburdened, and make my next, I got a no idea for another album. It's going to be good. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Okay. Well, that's exciting. Yeah. I don't know when it'll come out probably not for a long time.

Well, you're going on tour. Mm-hmm. What's your relationship like with touring now? It's interesting. We haven't done it that much in like since before coronavirus, I guess. So I, yeah, I don't know. I love touring. I do.

Yeah. It's great. I love going out. I love playing shows. I love touring. I do. It's great. I love going out. I love playing shows. I love meeting kids that are into my music. The whole thing is incredible. Before, a lot of it went kind of hand in hand with like, you know, I drank a lot. You know, there was a lot of insanity that went on out there. And like, you know, so coming back after COVID and going out and trying to reconfigure it or

something has been fun, different, but nice. And there was, you know, last year I canceled a lot of shows that we had planned. And just basically, you know, I mean, I looked at it all and I was like, this is, it started that looked like how it was before. And I was like, I don't think that I can't do it. I had nothing to promote. There was nothing, was like, I don't think that I can't do it. I had nothing to promote.

There was nothing, I would have gone crazy. Yeah. It would have been bad. So I think, we did a little bit. We did this tour of Central California, like you're from the Bay, right? Yeah. So we did Big Sur and a Petaluma and all these places around.

Beautiful. Yeah, it was nice. And I did on this motorcycle was amazing. It felt like a vacation. But I think I said some stuff on stage during the August run, which made a lot of kids online think that I have retired. I know I saw that. Yeah, yeah, which is like, no, I haven't. But perhaps, and I thought of this only this morning, perhaps I've retired from the way things used to be, perhaps. Well, and that's healthy. Maybe, maybe it is. I mean, it's like you're growing up, you're a man now. You're a man now.

You were like a real rock star mode. You know what I mean? You were partying, you were doing the thing when you were on tour. You can't keep that up forever. No, no, it was becoming like a health hazard for me. Look at me even now. I look like Jab with the Hut still.

But I'm getting there. We're getting there. We're getting there. But I think, no, it was becoming like a health hazard for me. Look at me even now. I look like Jab with the Hut still. But I'm getting there. We're getting there. We're getting there. But I think, no, it's unhealthy. I love it though. There's a thing, a lot, I meet a lot of younger musicians now and they, and they hate touring. They don't want to do it. Or it's tough when it's hard.

And yeah, it's tough when it's hard. But I think what people forget is that going on tour, for me going on tour when I was young, you know, we started going on tour when I was young, I started going on, I was like 17 or 18 or more. And it's like, you get to go in a car, you're best friends, and it's an adventure, it's a rock and roll adventure. And you're getting, I mean,

there was a lot of time we didn't get paid to do it, but eventually you'll get paid to do it, you're doing it. And it's like the greatest gift, it's incredible. It is. And it's like, there is a lot of, I was talking about it even yesterday with some friends that DJ, it's kind of like,

the lifestyle is crazy, but you don't have to lean into the lifestyles. I don't know, I'm fine to go to the bar and not, just drink bitters and sodas all night. That's fine. I don't have to be hammered all the time. Please, you can have fun that way. Exactly.

You have to teach yourself, but you can do it. That's true. I had to teach myself how to do that. You're a sober as well. No, but I have to keep it under control, because I'm an anxious girl. You're a professional. I'm a professional, and I'm an anxious girl. Yeah, fair.

I mean, when I would drink a lot, like when I was drinking a lot more, you would get the fear. I mean, I'd wake up with the fear. Yeah. Do you wake up with the fear? I would wake up with the fear, but it'd be like three days after I drank, that's how much I was drinking. I'd just be like,

that's the world the next day. So. Do you prefer a traveling sort of lifestyle or do you prefer being a home body in writing? I know this is probably gonna be, both of them are probably great. I like, there is a thing I like about the other day, like four days ago, I woke up in Hermos a beach

at my friend, Chris's house. His family home met his mother, his brother was there. Sister was somewhere in a house, didn't meet her. I've met her before. She was on TikTok. She was in there, so. But anyway, we woke up there and we had a couple of other friends there

and we walked down to the beach. Oh no, before we walked to the beach, I walked to the 7-Eleven, I bought a toothbrush and some toothpaste, a stick of old spice and went back. We walked down, had a little, this is the cafe, down by the water and we got in the water. And that feeling,

because it's like, I'm not, you know, I was maybe like 15 miles away from my house. Like not, I'm not out and about. Yeah. But there is that feeling of waking up, you can, you can, you can, you're wearing the same clothes and you gotta go get the toothbrush.

I love that. Like I love that. And even at Coachella, me and me and Kira slept in my car like on the back or you know, in like this bed that I had in the back for one of the nights and you wake up and it's like, wow, I feel like shit. I'm sweaty and this is disgusting. But there's something that like that little adventure, that little sprinkle. I love it. You feel free. Exactly. It's the freedom thing. little adventures, that little sprinkle. I love it. You feel free. Exactly. It's the freedom thing.

And that, you know, it's, yeah, that exact, that even with the, we were talking about the substances and stuff, that's a freedom thing too. Oh, yeah. You know, it's like, I don't want to be beholden to anything. Totally. So, I'm not. Well, I feel like you, I mean, I don't know,

I would assume you're kind of a minimalist even at home. Like, I, I feel like you're not, I don't know, on your phone ordering shit on Amazon all the time, like I am. I go through faces. Really? Okay. I mean, it's like, you know, that's, that's, it's crazy though, because it's like, you know, I used to have to go to Radio Shack and dig, you know, get the right little piece

to fix the thing. And now it's like, well, I can go on Amazon, get exactly what I need. And it's going to show up tomorrow. Yeah. Up until maybe a couple of years ago, I was very like, I was one of the people that even refused ordering food in the internet, it was like, I need to call, I need to talk to the guy at the pizza shop on the phone, I needed to, there was a whole thing.

So, do you like someone? You just tried me as balanced, I would say, because that's really healthy. I think I am very, it's a lot of this. Yeah. Or a lot of this, you know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, I need, I'm an extreme, extreme, but maybe extremely balanced.

I think that's what it is. Like the freedom thing we were talking about. It's like I would like to feel that freedom, but I'd like to feel a lot of it. I know, I get that. I just started traveling in that way, where I only allow myself, even if I'm going on like a two-month long Excursion a carry on and that's it. That's it. But it's really fucking hard. It is hard

But it's so worth it because this feeling of freedom that you get it is it's unmatched Mm-hmm, and I feel like it's actually what makes Traveling enjoyable when you're lugging around the three, you know, suitcases. That's too much. You don't feel free. Too much. That's the thing with the motorcycle. Except riding bikes for like a year now and it's like,

you can't put that much shit on the bike. You can't. There's not enough room. Wait, what made you get into it? When did, what made you start going on the bike? I'll tell you at the, you ever heard of this band called the Garden? No.

Great band. Great band, so cowl band, orange county. Okay, love it. Fletcher called me up, he's the drummer in the garden, he has these mopeds. Yeah. And he was like, you should come ride some mopeds one day and I did and I really enjoyed it. And so I got one and then, you know,

I got into that a little bit and then, you know, you reach a ceiling with the size of the engine and the power and you want a bigger one, you go bigger and then, you know, now I have four and, I wrote one here today, it was great, yeah, it was nice. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's fucking cool. It's great. It's great. Okay, so you like traveling. Sure. So When you're when you feel free while you're doing it. Mm-hmm. I mean, where do you like to spend time like are you into like the beach vibe or are you into like the mountain vibe?

Like what kind of guy are you? I like the uh I like the water. I do like the water. The beach depending on the beach. No Miami. Uh, it's like you know when the beach becomes a little too butt cheeks like Coachella. Yeah. Maybe I'm kind of like ads. I'd like a little, some rocks, maybe some moss, maybe you see some kind of critters down in the, you know, the little tide pool or something like that. I like that. I like, like say go up to maybe a big sur

or like a Mendocino or something like that, where it's kinda like maybe even a little too treachery to swim, something. But I love that. I love the like, I love the lake. I love the river. I think the river maybe is the most beautiful style of water to me. It just never stops moving. And it's calm, but it's calm now.

Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, well, yeah, it's nice. It depends on the river. You know, you got the wild rivers, you got the chill rivers. Even living in LA with all the rain, it's been kind of nice. But I think that usually the desert kind of, the arid sparse and not tall and not thick vegetation usually kind of freaks me out. But I've grown to love it in a way and it's been extra green recently. But I like a big tree and I like a lot of big trees together and a forest configuration.

And I like, yeah, the red wood for, you know, grew up near the Rocky Mountains in Canada, so you get the thickness. The thickness. It's good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But dry climate. I'll take a dry climate. We like a dry climate. I don't like that humidity, no, no. No, I don't.

I'll deal with it. I don't like it that much. So what do you do when you're traveling and you don't have an Instagram to post to? I, uh, I, we have to talk about how free you must feel. With our social media. Social media. Yeah, I mean, it's, was it a deliberate choice? Yeah, well, I mean, I think when I was, I was making the record called,

here comes the cowboy a couple years ago. And I just would, you know, I, I didn't really post that much, even at that point. There was a period where I, I used my Instagram quite a bit. We'd be on tour and I'd be taking funny photos of whatever, or whatever, you know. But then I was making that and I was trying to focus and trying to write these songs, trying to record it, and I would find myself just scrolling and like looking at like some person that I went to high school with, it's like, oh, well, this person I haven't seen in like 15 years of this, what they had for breakfast, like that's interesting. And you know, you catch

yourself and you're kind of like, I don't, this person is like, it's like, that's interesting. And you catch yourself and you're kind of like, this person is like, it's an illusion that they're in my life still. Like, it's just not real. Like, I barely knew this person back then, and now I don't know them at all. And here it is. In that way, I just wanted to like kind of declutter my life like that, but it's difficult

because it's really, really addictive. It's really, really bad. It's crazy, because I got rid of it. And I had like a million followers or someone. So a lot of time, I guess. And it's like, it's weird because I was able to do it and people like, whoa, like, you know, create, and I was just kind of like, I just don't want it.

But what I kept seeing was friends that, you know, are musicians too, or maybe on a smaller scale than me or something, they'd be like, well, I wish I could. And I'm kind of like, well, why don't you? And they're like, well, it's like, you know, it's my livelihood. It's how I tell people about my stuff. It's how I share.

And I never really used it for that. So that's so terrifying because it's these people, you have this thing, it's connected to your employment or your job or whatever, your output or whatever. And then, but it's like designed like a VLT, like a video lottery machine. And it's like, they addicted to it. And then they kind of hand cuff you to it. It's like, well, you can't get rid of me because how are you going to pay your rent this month? It's like,

so crazy. It's so crazy. So I think that it's just healthy. You know, maybe a, maybe me getting rid of it, you know, made some people, you know, question it in a way, which will be a good outcome or maybe not, whatever, but I, whatever, but. I mean, it made me question it. It's just a crazy thing. You know, it's a crazy thing and it is like, how much do you share, how present do you want to be in your everyday life? I don't know.

Here's the thing, my generation of people too, because I'm quite a bit old, but what, how do you know? 21. Yeah, so I'm more than 10 years old with them, like a grandpa. But it's like, for my generation, there was a period, I remember when, you know, there was dial up internet and when there was no Instagram

There was I remember before Facebook. I remember before my space Yeah, I mean it's like and I've always been little techie kid. I used to write computer code When I was a kid and you know we had the crazy slow, you know windows 95 or whatever and that But watching it kind of come in and and watching The way that people interface with it. And I think the way that there used to be a whole thing where it was kind of like you don't put your Your your your your your real name. You never use a real name. You don't use an alias. You use an avatar or whatever and like that was kind of how it was and then there was a shift at some point

Where it was like no, no, no, no, put as much personal information as you possibly can on there, which is like, fuck, fuck, it's going. I know. I can use the F volume here. You can use every customer. Okay, great. Be free. But yeah, it's alarming and it's weird. And I think it's, you know, at the same time, like, it probably had a lot to do with, you know, me being a musician that people listen to now, which is, you know, so I can't knock it completely, but I can at least inspect my relationship with it, I think. 100%. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb.

Let me tell you my favorite Airbnb story, okay? It's a few years ago, and a big group of friends, and I decide we wanna go to Joshua Tree. Out in the desert of California, we just want to have a Viby weekend, okay? So we go on Airbnb and we find a beautiful home in the middle of Joshua tree and we book it. What I loved so much about this trip was kind of being roommates with my friends for the weekend. And we all just got to play house.

We cooked for ourselves, we cleaned up after ourselves, and we just had a really good time. This house was phenomenal, too. I mean, everybody got their own bedroom, everybody had their own private space. We had a private pool, a private hot tub. This house was so aesthetically beautiful that we were all just happy to be sitting in there and looking at it because it was just gorgeous. It was super private

so we could all just be ourselves and hang out in the backyard and have fun and truly be by ourselves in the desert. I have a lot of great Airbnb memories. More to come. I have a lot of great Airbnb memories. More to come. Yes. Do you like living in LA? I love living in LA. Really? I do. It's been about six or seven years now. I feel like as much as you learn about it, you think you know about LA, it always has another, I don't know. There's another layer.

It's a weird city and it's like, well, we'll take the desert, for example. It's like what LA is is the irrigated desert. So it's kind of like, it shouldn't really be here. Total. And it feels like that. It's like a ghost. Yes.

There's like a ghost of the desert. Yeah. And it's weird. If you go down to like the gold district downtown, I have a studio that I'm working in in Carthor Park now and there's all these old theaters in a lot of parts. They built so many of them back in the day. But a lot of these neighborhoods have kind of got a little run down. These places are closed now.

But years ago, Karen and I were walking in to get, you know, gold district, I don't know, you go and there's all the little booths and everybody's selling cheap, you know, gold necklaces or whatever. But if you walk all the way to the back in these theaters, you can look up and they still have the old ceiling, you know, where it's hand painted ceilings.

And there's many places like this in LA, but I feel like it's kind of a good, it's almost like that's like that, that is LA. You know what I mean? It's like, well, there's this weirdness, but you know, it used to be so and so, or you know like it's kind of a good, it's almost like that's like that, that is LA. You know what I mean? It's like, well, there's this weirdness, but you know, it used to be so and so, or you know, it's kind of like, I don't know, meeting people that are from here that know something. It's like the secrets of the city, you know. I will say LA does have so many hidden gems.

Oh, yeah. But you can't, you can't be lazy if you want to find them. No, you got to go out looking, you got to go out looking. You moved to America in your teens? No, no, we moved down to New York in 2013, maybe. We were living in Montreal before that, and I'd lived in Vancouver for a little while before that, and then from a place called Edmonton, Alberta. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely cold. But yeah, we lived in New York for several years. It was kind of accidental to move there. But that's where most of the people at the time, I worked with my manager in booking agent were there in a record label that had signed me were there. And it was very exciting. And then eventually, I'd been doing music for a while,

and I had a little bit of money. And I was like, I think coming from kind of lower middle class suburban Canadian or Canadian or whatever, it's like, what do you do when you get a little bit of money? I was confused. I have that kind of like, for lack of better term, poor personality where it's like, this is going to go away. Totally.

You don't have your scarcity. Exactly. I got to buy a house and then trying to buy a house in New York, no, not going down. Not all options. It's expensive. We came over here and looked, and now we've lived here ever since, but now it's pretty much impossible

to buy a house over here. So, what are you gonna do? What do you gonna do? Well, yeah, I do, I like it. I like it over here. Some of, I was talking to some friends of the day, you just the West Coast in general. There's something that is, I like the East Coast,

but it gives me this, you know, and I think it's the same for other people, and I think some people thrive off of it, but it's like, you live in a constant state of, it's like a mild anxiety, or like, oh God, like, how am I gonna get another job? How am I gonna pay the rent? Like, oh my God, and it's intense,

and there's all these people on the street never on the street, and each other, and everybody's crazy, and it's like, it's cool. But for me, it's like, I just feel, more than, yeah, more like at home, it reminds me for me, it's like, I just feel, more than. Yeah, more like at home. It reminds me more of where I grew up, I think, houses and yards and it's dry.

And I don't know, that's it. That's nice. It's interesting. I feel like you've kept your values solid. No one can say you're a sellout. No one could even try to say it. And if they try, I don't care. It's just, it's not true.

But here's the thing though, is I think that the definition of that is different than when I was younger. You know, it's like, I don't think people know what that means anymore. You know, like I saw what is it, one of these eanchordist documentaries where, you know, he comes.

I guess a sellout means like selling out the show. That's what a lot of young people say. I've never thought of it like that. No, I mean, I think that's, that would be how it kind of is. Now where I think some kids would think, you know, sell, you know, they'd be like, well, that's a good thing. And I think, you know, there's not the, the, the weight to it anymore. Back in the day, I mean, not for me, even, but, you know,

I think of the artists that I look up to from the 90s or the 80s or whatever. It's like, there's things that you just don't want to do. But now I feel like, I don't know, the more you can, the more numbers, the more this, the more that. Yeah, I like DIY, making it feel fulfilled. But I think it might just be, not even by my own design, it might just not play well with others. Totally. Fair enough. But I've seen the industry change in a way over the past couple of years where especially like, you know, I guess people would consider me an independent artist or India.

So whatever that term doesn't really make any sense anymore either. You know, indie artists are getting like multi-million dollar record contracts with like, you know, these big indie label. It doesn't, yeah, it doesn't. I do think all the words have lost. It's a little, it's a little blurry now.

It is blurry. Which is cool in a way, because it's like there's, you know, all these different genres and all these different people from all walks. It's really easy for, you know, very, very big artists to find a very small artist, whatever, vice versa. And there's kind of blending or whatever, but, you know, it all comes back to what I was saying before

about maybe that, that I like that kind of zen, like organized kind of blending or whatever, but it all comes back to what I was saying before about maybe that kind of zen-organized kind of, I wanna stay in my little box and keep it, I don't, collaborating here, I don't know what that's gonna do. You just wanna keep it safe. Yeah, well, I just wanna keep it, I wanna keep it me, I think, which is in the world we're living in right now where AI can write your lyrics for you,

they can write your music for you, or you can get a pop song written by 15 people in some weird studio, it's like, that's great. And if you wanna make money, go ahead and make money, and go and do, you can go to university to learn how to write pop songs down. That's fine, or to be in the industry, or whatever. Like if you wanna do that, and you wanna make money doing it,

whatever, you know, go and do it, you're gonna have trouble once I burn all the money. But I think this world we're living in, it's like the most invaluable thing now is like the person making the music. Or the, you know, it's like that's like so, that to me, doesn't matter what it sounds like even anymore. It's like if the intention is right,

and like the person is injecting themselves into it, like, then I would love to listen to it. You know, if it's real enough. And I hope that I can achieve that. I think maybe that's part of maybe why people, you know, come to my music sometimes, but. Have you had that philosophy about, you know, keeping your creative process sort of

within your box and keeping it sort of, you have you had that philosophy the whole time or have there been moments when you were like, I'm losing it a little bit, like I kind of want to go this other direction. I think that I'm, here's the other thing, I'm not very skilled, I'm not very trained, I don't really know what I'm doing. You're very skilled. I can do what I can do, you know, it's like I can only do me and I think it's never been very difficult for me to do me because I'm me totally, even when I try and emulate something, I'm never,'s like I can only do me. And I think it's never been very difficult for me to do me because I'm me. Totally.

Even when I try and emulate something, I never quite get there. Totally. And then you end up with something which is just your own, I guess, you know, but it's, I don't know, I've been in a couple situations over the last couple of years where you collaborate with someone and it's like, it's, you know, it's cool.

I'm down to try it out. I'm not very good at it. It kind of makes me feel uncomfortable. And some instances where it's kind of like, ah, you kind of just wanted my Spotify followers. Totally. But there's instances like that. And I'm not throwing any shade or anything,

but it's like, I understand people are trying to, everybody wants to elevate and link and build and do this to that and the other thing. And it's like, that's fine. I don't know. It's just like, when I find something that is like very like, like fulfills your soul artistically now, it's just like, oh my God, protect this thing.

Yes. This is great, you know, because it is, you see it more and more nowadays, and it's happened to me before, you know, you do something that grabs people's attention and the numbers go one way or another, you make money off something, there's people to come around kind of being like,

hey kid, like what you doing over there. It's kind of like, yeah, you know. But I think, you know, for the most part over my career, it's like I've wanted to, you know, retain what I have and keep it small. Even with this label that we're doing now, I like it's like a village, you know, it's like, I have these artists that I'm working with with and my friends and I believe in their music. And if they want to come over and record them as to you, they can't, they need help mixing no problem. I'd like to help as much to share their stuff, but it's at the, you know, that's not the,

trying to make money off. I, you know, that doesn't really come into the thing. Yeah. Obviously you need money to make finals or whatever, help people out or whatever, but it's like, I think, I just wanted to feel like a village. I was thinking about this earlier today as I was sweeping my bricks in the backyard

before I came over here. And it's like everybody's here, we're doing these creative things, we feel comfortable together, it's like a ranch and we're, this is not a little callty of something, but. No, see, I know what you mean. Something like that, you know, it's kind of like,

look at this, we're able to survive and dwell and make beautiful things. And like that's, for me, that's all I want to do. I just make the things that I want to make. And I'm getting pretty close to having this kind of self-sustaining, I guess, financial situation where it doesn't really matter how anything I make is received, I can just make the stuff that I want to make.

And that one-way in G thing is exactly that. It's kind of like people were like, where are you been for the last five years? It's like, well, I've just been doing this. Yeah, and it felt good. You can have it. You know, it's this episode is all about Freedom. That's right. It's about freedom. How have you Navigated sort of being in the public eye and like Maintaining your friendships. You've had a long-term relationship. Yeah. How have you kept it together? I mean, you know.

Because you've been doing it for a while. I have. I think that the key thing is that I never got too big. You know what I mean? I've always kind of been chilling in like a general kind of like, you know, I'm not, you know, I have friends in the music industry that have security guards and shit like that. You know, it's like, I don't, nobody,, nobody, I think also it's the demeanor

that I've always carried to, or it's kind of like people have this predisposed like I can go say what's up to Mac. And it's like yes, you can. It's like, you know, bother me. Like it's totally cool. Like I appreciate it. I don't know, I'm lucky in a lot of ways.

It's like, I've never been famous enough to like not go to the grocery store. Like that's crazy. You know what I mean? But I mean, some people are. But I think I've just always been in this sweet spot. I don't know. That's in a great place to be. It's cool. I think a lot of people get lost in the sauce. I want to do the fancy thing and this that. You know, it's tough. You know, it's tough.

Sometimes you feel pretty isolated. You know, making new friends can be difficult or making or even keeping in touch with old friends. I know for around a lot, but I've always had a very, I see you when I see it kind of mentality. I think it's paid off over the years. I think not letting yourself go all Hollywood mode can save you from a lot of grief shockingly. It's tough here though. You know what I mean?

It's tough to, because there's a lot of Hollywood mode here. It's crazy. It's crazy place. I mean, I think something that really has kept me personally saying is like, I try not to get too involved in like, you know, going to this sort of fancy parties or going to, I'll dip in, but I think, you know, you have to parties or going to all dip in, but I think you have to walk away and go back to your life after. Absolutely. I think that's like the... Just honestly, I think that's the key to happiness in a lot of ways because I feel like you go and you do that stuff and then you're like this was kind of shitty. Well, I think too,

I used to, you know, you get this feeling of the grass is always going to be greener at these events or these things or whatever. And I went to enough of them where I was kind of like, you know, usually I'm kind of like, well, it's cool that I was, it's a situation where it's like, it is, the cool part is that you got invited or something. Yeah. You go and it's like, not really that much fun. I'd probably have more fun in my backyard. But then, you know, there's a one every once in a while that is crazy.

But maybe it is just getting older. But since I've been in my 30s, it's kind of like, I suppose to go into the fancy party or whatever the event or the celebs. I'd rather just go to like kind of like a dimly lit restaurant that they'll let you hang out for like three hours. Have a bowling a's or something like that. Sounds great. I don't know.

That's actually, I like to go to a place like that and people watch there. That's great too, man. Best night. There's a lot of that in LA. That's another thing. LA has a lot of really old funny restaurants. You know, like Musone Frank or like,

Dantana, I love going to Dantana. I mean, you gotta Dantana because I drive by all the time. Last I'll tell you this, last time I went to Dan Tana, my friend, Tal Wann, was in town. He's my old friend. We lived with him in New York. And he's a Argentinian guy and he came through. And I was like, Juan, you know,

you know how to ride motorcycles? He's like, yeah, no problem. I was like, okay, so with me and him and my other friend, Dan, we got on the bikes, we drove out to Dan Tana. We're gonna have a nice dinner and nice Italian dinner. And we get there and we on the bikes, we drove out to Dan Tan, and we're gonna have a nice dinner, a nice Italian dinner. And we get there and we park the bikes, and we're going in, and I go to open the door,

and as I open the door, there's some people coming out. And there was these two women, and like a shorter man with huge hard looking hair. And he looks right up at me, and he's like, oh, okay, all right, all right. Al Pacino. It was Al Pacino. And I was like, oh my God.

And that's kind of froze. And he came out and all these guys were like, this is Pacino, Mr. Pacino. And the win were like, you're being too rough with him. But he took photos of everybody. It was cool, but it was just like, because that's fucking amazing. That's the thing with the, you know,

Dan Tanna is a classic Italian American spot. It's a red tip, checker table cloth. Like it's been there forever. And you know, Dantana is a classic Italian America spot. It's a red tip, checker tablecloth. Like, it's been there forever. And, you know, the mom's, some of you guys, they still go. Like, I bet Joe Pesci still goes there. Robert De Niro probably still goes there. Incredible.

I love it. I love it. I'm gonna go and give you a full, like, I'm gonna give you a review. It's the best. What should I order? You know what I do is the chicken parmesan with this angel hair pasta. I don't know. It's all kind of simple. It's the best. What should I order? You know what I do is the the chicken chicken Parmesan Ooh with this angel hair pasta. I don't know. It's all kind. It's simple. It's red sauce. You got to keep it simple

It's good. It's good. I love it. I love dantana. I love it Everyone go to dantana. Yeah sponsored by dantana. Yeah, thanks for coming on. Emma has been my pleasure This is just the beginning of a beautiful friendship. My new co-host, Mac Demarco, will be here every third episode of the month. Wow. Hey, don't tease him. I'll do it. I live like five minutes away.

No, I know. We need to start doing like we can create our own show. Okay, perfect.