anything goes with emma chamberlain - a talk with mac demarco [video]

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

[video available on Spotify] today i have a very special guest. someone who actually shifted my music taste in a big way. today we have mac demarco. when i was like 15 i found his music on vine, and i've been such a big fan ever since. i think what's so special about mac’s music is the way it always sounds like him. whether it's kind of funky, deep and sentimental, or just an instrumental, it always feels like him. his last album having almost 200 songs and being like nine hours long is so intriguing to me. he's going the complete opposite direction of the industry, and i must know more. so i present to you, mac demarco. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I have a very, very special guest. Someone who I've been a fan of for, I don't know, six, seven years. Someone who actually shifted my music taste in a big way, single-handedly. Today we have Macdemarco. When I was like 15, I found his music on Vine. Who remembers Vine? I found his music on Vine. There was like this artsy edit of, I don't know, like in anime movie and there was a song in the background and I was like, what is that?

And I looked in the comments and it was like freaking out the neighborhood by Mac DeMarco and I was like, who's Mac DeMarco? And I was obsessed. And I've been such a big fan of him ever since. So getting to speak with him today is, honestly, I'm gonna shit myself, but I'm so excited. I think what's so special about Max Music is the way it always sounds like him. When you hear a Mac to Marco song, you're like, that's a Mac to Marco song. Whether it's kind of funky or it's more deep and sentimental or it's just an instrumental that rhymed it always feels like him. He really just has his own sort of sound. His last two albums have been so intriguing to me because they're super stripped down and they're super casual in a lot of ways. His last album having almost 200 songs and being like nine hours long. He's going the complete opposite

direction of the industry. And I must know more. So I present to you, crumbling up my script, Mac DeMarco. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Let's get personal. You know what? Every once in a while, I like making things about me. Okay. Every once in a while I like making things about me. Okay, every once in a while. Like having fun with my makeup based on my attitude or picking out an outfit to express how I'm feeling. It's actually pretty common from your morning podcast to your afternoon playlist. You're personalizing your entire day. And it only makes sense that you do the same with your insurance. That's why State Farm helps you personalize your insurance with the State Farm personal price plan. It offers coverage options that help you protect what you care about most at an affordable price

just for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Call or go to statefarm.com today to create your State Farm personal price plan. Prices vary by state, options selected by customer, availability, and eligibility may vary. This episode is brought to you by LiquidIV. You might think that hydration is only necessary after intense, crazy activities, like working out. But if you think about it, running errands is still running. That's why LiquidIV powder hydrates you two times faster than water alone, with three times the electrolytes of traditional sports drinks. I am a big fan of liquid IV.

I drink liquid IV after workout. I drink liquid IV after a long day of sweating in the sun during the summer. I drink liquid IV. If I just feel a little bit dehydrated, You know, maybe I have a little headache. I feel a little off. I love it. It's so easy. You just rip the packet open, pour it into a bottle of water, shake it up and gulp, gulp, gulp.

I always keep a liquid IV in my bag because I never want to feel dehydrated again. My favorite flavors are the passion fruit and the watermelon. And I actually think they're delicious. It's so easy to chug water when there's a liquid IV in it. It's so simple to use. Just rip open a stick and pour the powder in some water for a boost. Because real life is extreme enough. Liquid IV, real people, real flavor, real hydrating.

Buy a stick of liquid IV at a store near you or head to liquidiv.com and use the code anything for 20% off your order. That's liquidiv.com with the code anything. Tap the banner or visit this episodes page to learn more. I'm so excited to talk to you. Me too, here we are, finally. All these years later.

I know, and I mean, it is cool because I feel like I actually got to be kind of friends with you. Yeah. Like in secret. At Coachella mostly. I know. It's so weird because Coachella's the last place I would expect to see you. I kind of you know I feel the same like last year when I met you there. Yeah. That was I always had this role where I was like I will never go to this festival if I'm not playing it. There's no way. When last year was the first year where I just went, I didn't even get up with anybody.

I just went and chilled. Did you love it? Here's the thing. That I was, I had just freshly quid smoking. Yeah. So I was still in this like kind of, when you quit smoking, I think when you smoke as much as I did or when you are that addicted kind of feels like you're on mushrooms for a couple weeks. Totally. I was like in the. It kind of feels like you're on mushrooms for a couple weeks.

Totally. I was like in the throes of feeling like completely insane. But the thing was, I was like, if I can go to Coachella and not smoke any cigarettes there, then I'm done. And it was no problem, so. It's an easy place to distract yourself because. It's insane.

It's like running a marathon. Yeah, it's completely insane. Going to Coachella is like running a marathon. I would say more than other festivals. I'll say this. Yeah. That, it's completely. Going to Coachella is like running a marathon. I would say more than other festivals. I'll say this. Yeah. That last year. Yeah. I remember feeling quite tired. My feet hurt. I got blisters.

My legs hurt. I think it's a testament this year. Not so bad. Okay. So maybe I'm a little bit more fit than last year. Just a little bit. Okay. I bet. When you're writing music, going straight into it. Sure. Sure.

When you're writing music, are straight into it. Sure, sure. When you're writing music, are you thinking of how it's going to be played at a show? Or are you writing it just because it feels right to you in the moment? There was a point where I thought of that. I think it was kind of like, I'd keep in mind the configuration of the band that I had at the time. Because if I put an extra guitar line or if I put an extra synthesizer, I was like, how are we going to, how are we going to do this? But that was at a point where it was like, we toured so much that if I had a month or two off in between tours, I was like, I have to make the album now, or else I'm never going to be able to make

it. So it was, I think it was very ingrained in that nowadays. I don't, I don't, I don't think about it at all. all, but I mean, the situation now where we're going on tour in July, and it's kind of like, I'm listening to this record that we're gonna perform, and I'm kind of like, there's like four clavets on a song, I'm like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this, but we'll figure it out.

This kid Darryl, the plays with me right now, he's a bass player, he plays with me, and he was saying the other day that he feels like my music is kind of zen in a way or balanced. Where it's like there's the drums, you get the vocal, two guitars, it's all, you know, and that's, there's usually like a set number, it's like a set dinner or something.

It's like, you know, so I think I used to kinda, it's hard for me to break out of that. I like, I like evenness and I like simplicity, you know, I'm about to, there's something I like too about maybe a unperformable music, you know, I'm gonna be right. There's something I like too about maybe a unperformable music, you know? Totally. I mean, you just released, I was so excited to see you releasing 199 songs on Oneway and G.

That's right. I was just on a road trip, home, it was like four hours. I mean, I crushed half of it. The way that you're releasing music right now is so intriguing to me. And it's so refreshing. I mean, number one, all the titles are like, they're just biotics. Yeah. It's like a date code. That actually came from this guy, Ryuichi Sakamoto, he recently passed away. One of the great, I think, you know, advanced music in a crazy way, great,

great musician, real hero of mine. He put an album out called 12. I think at the turn of this year, maybe early last year, I can't remember exactly when it came up, but it was just 12 songs in the date that he recorded a moment, which I was like, well, and I kind of started, I had done that date coding thing for my recordings already, but I, you know, doing it in the exact way he did, it's kind of like a little, you know, a nod. Yeah, I love the, I mean, he was incredible, really changed my... I need to check him out.

Incredible. One of the best of all time. Do you feel like kind of removing the sort of pressure to like come up with this perfect name of the song and, you know, select which songs you want to release and which ones you want to hold back? Do you feel like not participating in that sort of hype, I guess, if you will? Sort of makes you feel more creatively free? Or are you just kind of doing what feels right and being intuitive?

Well, with this, with the one-waying G, it's interesting to me that people have been as receptive with it. I thought I was just going, oh, there's our all-out, not going to, you know. For me, it was like, I wanted to collect every, like, you know, scrounge everything up. Yes. And put it out so I can walk past it, you know what I mean? Because the thing is, you know, there's a couple songs in there

that'll like finish songs with lyrics or whatever. There's a lot of stuff that, you know, kids have really been gravitating this one that sounds like somebody just banging on pipes or whatever, there's stuff that's like, you know, very like, almost, you know, as musical, but it's not like, it's a toe in the line It's almost not, you know, it's a mix bag. For example, the songs that are finished, right? They sit there on my hard drive

Or on the computer and they go, put me on the next album. Totally. Remember me. I'm pretty good. I'm a pretty good song Remember me and I, and you know, it drives you crazy because then I try and record them again And it doesn't ever feel the same way as the original version. But they're good songs and I want people to hear them, but there's not a really a way of presenting them. And it's interesting. I think that the way that the music industry is kind of structured right now. It's, yeah, it's very, I think that's what people find refreshing. It's like, why is he doing this? It doesn't make any sense. How's he gonna make the money? What's going on? Totally.

Which is like, I don't really, you know, I don't really care either way. Like, I'm just glad people listen to him. But it's not, you know, if it makes people kind of question the way that they ingest my art or art in general, like that's great, you know, maybe, or maybe it's not, I don't really know. But I'm happy they're out there,

and kids seem to be enjoying themselves. The kids are loving them. Yeah, it's cool. I think seeing, you know, your last album and like experiencing it in such like a just normal, like seeing it on Spotify, I'm like, oh shit, okay. It really did make me realize how incredibly calculated, I think, music has become for the most part. Yeah, it's weird.

You know, it feels, well, just doesn't feel like the music, it's all about the music as much anymore. It feels like it's about the way it's perceived in, you know, in on visual terms, from a press perspective, whatever. So I think that's why this is so refreshing, is because it's just an F you to all of that, whether you meant it to be an FU to all of it or not. I wasn't really thinking of, I was just fine.

Listen, he didn't say FU, but I, you know, I will own the FU, that's no problem for me. Yeah. But it is, I mean, yeah, it's fun. I was thinking about it a lot the other day with the industry and everything. And I think that there's a lot of problems and things are kind of weird and TikTok makes things

really weird and the way that labels are kind of like trying to get money and everybody wants to get the money and you gotta do this and you gotta do that. I figured out how to fix it all. We burn all the money. We gotta burn all the money. We gotta burn it all up because if nobody's making it and you can't, there's no opportunity to make it. Then we can have fun.

Exactly. And people will be just making for the sake of making, which I think is like such a beautiful, music is so beautiful. Yes. Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's tough, sometimes even going to play psycho-chel, it's like, you know, you forget about the music sometimes, it's like more about butt cheeks or whatever I was going to learn there. 100%.

Which is, I don't have a problem with butt cheeks, they're cool too, like whatever, you know, but it's like, it was refreshing. I think to have, you know, to be able to, you know, I got a collection of these things, I like them, even if the label, or, you know, to be able to, you know, I got a collection of these things I like them Even if the label or you know, I think the people that are working with me on it were like this is a good idea, you know But it's nice to just Kiss it goodbye and now I can walk forward. I can walk forward in peace unburdened and

Make my next I got a no idea for another album. It's gonna be good. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Well, that's exciting Yeah, I don't know when it'll come out probably now for a long time I had a no idea for another album. It's going to be good. Yes. Yes. Okay. Well, that's exciting. Yeah. I don't know when it'll come out probably not for a long time. Well, you're going on tour. What's your relationship like with touring now? It's interesting.

We haven't done it that much in like since before coronavirus, I guess. So I, yeah, I don't know. I love touring. I do. It's great. I love going out. I love't know. I love touring. I do. It's great. I love going out. I love playing shows. I love meeting kids that are into my music.

The whole thing is incredible. Before, a lot of it went kind of hand in hand with like, you know, I drank a lot. Yeah. There was a lot of insanity that went on out there. And like, you know, so coming back after COVID and going out and trying to reconfigure it or something has been fun, different. But nice, and there was, you know, last year I canceled a lot of shows that we had planned. And just basically, you know, I mean, I looked at it all and I was like, this is, it started that looked like how it was before. And I was like, I don't think that I can't,

I can't do it. I had nothing to promote. There was nothing, I would have gone crazy. It would have been bad. So I think, we did a little bit. We did this tour of Central California and you're from the Bay, right? So we did Big Sur and a Petaluma and all these places

around it. It was nice. And I did on this motorcycle. It was amazing. It felt like a vacation. But I think I this motor cycle was amazing. It's kind of like a vacation, you know. But I think I said some stuff on stage during the August run, which made a lot of kids online

think that I have retired. I know I saw that. Yeah, yeah, which is like, no, I haven't, but perhaps, and I thought of this only this morning, perhaps I've retired from the way things used to be, perhaps. Well, and that's healthy. Maybe, maybe it is.

I mean, it's like you're growing up, you're a man now. You're a man now. You were like a real rock star mode, you know what I mean? You were partying, you were doing the thing, when you were on tour, you can't keep that up forever. No, no, it was becoming like a health hazard for me. Look at me even now. Look like Jab with the Hut still.

You know, but I'm getting there. We're getting there. We're getting there. But I think, no, it's unhealthy. I do, I love it though. There's a thing, a lot, I meet a lot of younger musicians now and they, and they hate touring. Yeah. They don't want to do it.

Or it's tough when it's hard. Yeah, it's tough when it's hard. But I think what people forget is that going on tour, for me going on tour when I was young, I started to go on, I was like 17 or 18 or more. And it's like, you get to go in a car, be your best friend, and it's an adventure. It's a rock and roll adventure. Totally.

And you're getting, I mean, there was a lot of time we didn't get paid to do it, but eventually you'll get paid to do it. You're doing it. And it's like the greatest gift, it's incredible. It is. And it's like, there is a lot of, I was talking about it even yesterday with some friends that DJ,

it's kind of like, the lifestyle is crazy, but you don't have to lean into the lifestyles. I don't know, I'm fine to go to the bar and not just drink bitters and sodas all night. That's fine, I don't have to be hammered all the time. Please, you can have fun that way. Exactly. You have to teach yourself, but you can do it.

That's true. I had to teach myself how to do that. You're a sober as well. No, but I have to keep it under control, because I'm an anxious girl. You're a professional. I'm a professional, and I'm an anxious girl. I mean, when I would drink a lot,

like when I was drinking a lot more, you would get the fear. I mean, I'd wake up with the fear. Do you wake up with the fear? I would wake up with the fear, but it'd be like three days after I drank. That's how much I was drinking. I'd just be like,

that's the world the next day. So, do you prefer a traveling sort of lifestyle or do you prefer being a homebody in writing? I know this is probably going to be... Both of them are probably great. I like, there is a thing I like about the other day. Like four days ago ago I woke up in her most sub-eech at my friend Chrissy's house. His family home met his mother his brother was there.

Sister was somewhere in a house, didn't meet her. I've met her before. She was on TikTok. She was in there. But anyway, we woke up there and we had a couple other friends there and we walked down to the beach. Oh no, before we walked to the beach, I walked to the 7-11, I bought a toothbrush and some toothpaste, stick of old spice and went back, we walked down, had a little, this is the cafe, down by the water, and we got in the water.

And that feeling, because it's like, I'm not, you know, I was maybe like 15 miles away from my house, like not, I'm not out and about. Yeah. But there is that feeling of waking up, and you're wearing the same clothes, and you gotta go get the toothbrush

I love that like I love that and even a Coachella me and me and Kira slept in my car like on the back You know And like this bed that I had in the back for one of the nights and you wake up and it's like wow feel like shit I'm sweaty and this is disgusting, but there's something that like that little adventure. It's that little sprinkle I love it. You feel free exactly. It's the freedom thing that you know, that little sprinkle. I love it. You feel free. Exactly. It's the freedom thing. And that, you know, it's, yeah, that exact, that even with the, we were talking about the substances

and stuff, that's a freedom thing too. Oh, you know, it's like, I don't want to be beholden to anything. Totally. So, I'm not. Well, I feel like you, I mean, I don't know, I would assume you're kind of a minimalist, even at home.

Like, I, I feel like you're not, I don't know, I would assume you're kind of a minimalist even at home. Like I, I feel like you're not, I don't know, on your phone ordering shit on Amazon all the time, like I am. I go through faces. Really? I mean, it's like, you know, that's, that's, that's just crazy though,

because it's like, you know, I used to have to go to Radio Shack and dig, you know, get the right little piece to fix the thing. And now it's like, well, I can go on Amazon, get exactly what I need. And it's going to show up tomorrow. Up until maybe a couple of years ago,

I was very like, I was one of the people that even refused ordering food in the internet. It was like, I need to call. I need to talk to the guy at the pizza shop on the phone. I needed to, you know, there was a whole thing. So, do you like the one? You just tried me as balanced, I would say, because that's really healthy.

I think I am like very, it's a lot of this. Yeah. Or a lot of this, you know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, I need, I'm an extreme, extreme, but maybe extremely balanced. I think that's what it is. Like the freedom thing we were talking about. It's like I would like to feel that freedom,

but I'd like to feel a lot of it. I know, I get that. I just started traveling in that way, where I only allow myself, it. I know. I get that. I just started traveling in that way, where I only allow myself, even if I'm going on like a two month long excursion, a carry on and that's it. That's tight. But it's really fucking hard.

It is hard. But it's so worth it, because this feeling of freedom that you get, it is, it's unmatched. And I feel like it's actually what makes traveling enjoyable when you're lugging around the re, you know, suitcases. That's too much.

You don't feel free. Too much, that's the thing with the motorcycle. So I've been riding bikes for like a year now and it's like, you can't put that much shit on the bike. You can't, there's not enough room. Wait, what made you get into it? When did, what made you start going on the bike? I'll tell you at the,

you've heard of this band called The Garden? No. Great band, great band, so Cal band, Orange County. Okay, love it. Fletcher called me up, he's the drummer in the garden, he has these mopeds. Yeah. And he was like, you should come ride some mopeds one day

and I did and I really enjoyed it. And so I got one and then, you know, I got into that a little bit and then, you know, you reach a ceiling with the size of the engine and the power and you want a bigger one, you go bigger and then, you know, now I have four and I wrote one here today, it was great, yeah, bigger, and then you know, now I have four. I wrote one here today. It was great. Yeah, it was nice. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's fucking cool. It's great. It's great. Okay. So you like traveling. Sure.

So when you're when you feel free while you're doing it, I mean, where do you like to spend time? Like are you into like the beach vibe? Are you into like the mountain vibe? Like what kind of guy are you? I like the, I like the water. I do like the water, the beach, depending on the beach. No Miami. Uh, with, you know, when the beach becomes a little too but cheeks like Coachella, maybe I'm kinda like ads.

I'd like a little, some rocks, maybe some moss, maybe you see some kind of critters down in the, you know, the little tide pool or something like that. I like that. I like, like say go up to maybe a big sir or like a Mendocino or something like that, where it's kind of like maybe even a little too treacher to swim sometimes, you know.

But I love that. I think I love the like, I love the river. I think the river maybe is the most beautiful treacher to swim sometimes. But I love that. I love the lake. I love the river. I think the river maybe is the most beautiful style of water to me. It just never stops moving. And it's calm, but it's calm now. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Yeah, well, yeah, it's nice. Depending on the river, you know, you've got the wild rivers, you've got the chill rivers. Even living in LA with all the rain, it's been kind of nice. But I think that usually the desert kind of, the arid sparse and not tall and not thick vegetation usually kind of freaks me out. But I've grown to love it in a way and it's been extra green recently. But I like a big tree and I like a lot of big trees together and forest configuration.

And I like the red, you know, red wood for, you know, grew up near the Rocky Mountains in Canada. So you get the the thickness. The thickness. It's good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But dry climate. I'll take a dry climate. We like a dry climate. I don't like that humidity, no, no.

No, I don't. I'll deal with it. I don't like it that much. So what do you do when you're traveling and you don't have an Instagram to post, too? I, uh, I, we have to talk about how free you must feel without social media. Yeah, I mean, it's, was it a deliberate choice? Well, I mean, I think when I was making the record call, here comes the cowboy a couple of years ago. And I just would, you know, I didn't really post that much, even at that

point. There was a period where I used my Instagram quite a bit. We'd be on tour and I'd be taking funny photos of whatever, or whatever. But then I was making that and I was trying to focus and trying to write these songs, trying to record it. And I would find myself just scrolling and looking at some person that I went to high school with. It's like, oh, wow. This person I haven't seen in 15 years of this, what they have for breakfast. That's interesting. And you catch yourself and you're kind of like, I don't, this person is like, it's an illusion that they're in my life still.

Like it's just not real. Like I barely knew this person back then and now I don't know them at all. And here it is. You know, in that way, I just wanted to like kind of declutter my life like that, but it's difficult because it's really, really addictive. You know, it's really, really bad.

It's crazy, you know, like, because I got rid of it. And I had, you know, I had like a million followers. Yeah. Someone saw a lot of time, I guess. And it's like, it's weird because I was able to do it. And people like, whoa, like, you know, create, and I was just kind of like, I just don't want it. But what I kept seeing was friends that, you know, are musicians too, or maybe, you know, maybe on a smaller scale than me or something. They'd be like, well, I wish I could. And I'm kind of like, well, why don't you? And they're like, well, it's like, my livelihood. It's how I tell people about my stuff,

it's how I share. And I never really used it for that. So that's so terrifying, because it's these people, you have this thing, it's connected to your employment or your job or whatever, your output or whatever. And then, but it's like, it's designed like a VLT, like a video lottery machine.

And it's like, they addicting to it. And then they kind of handcuff you to it. It's like, well, you can't get rid of me because how are you gonna pay your rent this month? It's like, so crazy. It's so crazy. So I think that it's just healthy. You know, maybe me getting rid of it,

you know, made some people, you know, question it in a way, which will be a good outcome or maybe not, I don't know, whatever, but. I mean, it made me question it. It's just a crazy thing. You know, it's a way which will be a good outcome or maybe not, I don't know, whatever, but. I mean, it made me question it. It's just a crazy thing. You know, it's a crazy thing and it is like how much do you share, how present do you want to be in your everyday life? I don't know.

Here's the thing, like my generation of people too, because what I'm quite a bit old, but what how do you know? 21. Yeah, so I'm like more than 10 years old with you. I'm like a grandpa. I mean, but it's like, for my generation, like there was a period, I remember when, you know, there was dial up internet and when there was no Instagram, I remember before Facebook, I remember before my space.

I mean, it's like, and I've always been a little techie kid. I used to write computer code when I was a kid. We had the crazy slow Windows 95 or whatever. But watching it come in and watching the way that people interface with it. And I think the way that there used to be a whole thing where it was kind of like you don't put your your your your your your your your real name. You never use a real name on your shit. You don't use an alias. You use an avatar or whatever. And like that was kind of how it was. And and then there was a shift at some point where it was like no,

no, no, put as much personal information as you possibly can on there, which is like, fuck, that fuck is going on. I know. I can use the F-bomb here. You can use every customer. Okay, great. Be free. But yeah, it's alarming and it's weird.

And I think it's, you know, at the same time, like I probably had a lot to do with, you know, me being a musician that people listen to now, which is, you know, so I can't knock it completely, but I can at least inspect my relationship with it, I think. 100%. Do you like living in LA? I love living in LA.

Really? It's my due. Yeah, it has been about six or seven years now. I feel like as much as you learn about it, you think you know about LA, it always has another, I don't know. There's another layer. It's a weird city and it's like, well, we'll take the desert, for example.

It's like what LA is is the irrigated desert. So it's kind of like it shouldn't really be here. Totally, and it feels like that. It's like a ghost. Yes. There's like a ghost of the desert. And it's weird. If you go down to like the gold district downtown,

I have a studio that I'm working in in in Carthor Park now. And there's all these old theaters in a lot of parts of it. Because they've built so many of them back in the day. But a lot of these neighborhoods have kind of got a little run down. These places are closed now. But years ago, Karen and I were walking in to get, you know, gold district. I don't know, you go and there's all the little booths and everybody's selling cheap,

you know, gold necklaces or whatever. But if you walk all the way to the back in these theaters, you can look up and they still have the old ceiling, where the hand painted ceilings. And there's many places like this in LA, but I feel like it's kind of a good, it's almost like that, that is LA. You know what I mean? It's like, well, there's this weirdness, but it used to be so and so, or it's kind of like, I don't know, meeting people that are from here that know something, it's like the secrets of the city.

I will say LA does have so many hidden gems. Oh yeah. But you can't, you can't be lazy if you want to find them. No, you've got to go out looking, you've got to go out looking. You moved to America in your teens? No, no, we, I moved down to New York in 2013, maybe. We were living in Montreal before that and I'd lived in Vancouver for a little while before that and then From a place called Edmonton Alberta. Yeah

Yeah, definitely cold, but but yeah, we lived in New York for several years It was kind of accidental to move there and but that's where most of the people at the time I worked with my manager and booking agent were there and a record label that had signed me were there and it was very exciting And then eventually you know, I've been doing music for a while and I had a little bit of money. And I was like, I think coming from kind of lower middle class suburban Canadian or Canadian or whatever, it's like, what do you do when you get a little bit of money?

Like I was confused. I have that kind of like, for lack of better term, like poor personality, where it's like, this is gonna go away. Totally, you don't. You don't know how, exactly. So I was like, I gotta buy a house. And then I'll, you know, trying to buy a house in New York.

No, not going down. Not a little option. It's too expensive. So we came over here and looked, and now we've lived here ever since, but now it's pretty much impossible to buy a house over here. So, what are you gonna do?

But, well, yeah, I do, I like it. I like it over here. Some of, but I was talking to some friends of the day, you just the West Coast in general. There's something that is, I like the East Coast, but it gives me this, you know, and I think it's the same for other people, and I think some people thrive off of it,

but it's like, you live in a constant state of, it's like a mild anxiety, or like, oh God, like, how am I gonna get another job? How am I gonna get the rent? Oh my God. And it's intense, and there's gonna get enough of the job? How am I gonna pay the rent? Like, oh my God. And it's intense and there's all these people on the street never on the screen in each other. And everybody's crazy and it's like, that's cool.

And something, but for me, it's like, I just feel, more than, yeah, more like at home. It reminds me more of where I grew up, I think, you know, houses and yards and it's dry. And I don't know, that's, yeah, that's nice. It's dry. I don't know. It's interesting. I feel like you've kept your values solid. No one can say you're a sellout.

No one could even try to say it. And if they try, I don't care. It's just, it's not true. But the here's the thing though, is I think that the definition of that is different than when I was younger. You know, it's like, I don't think people know what that means anymore. You know, like I saw what is it one of these eanchordist documentaries where, you know, he kind of... I guess a sellout means like selling out the show.

That's what a lot of young people... I've never thought of it like that. No, I mean, I think that's... That would be how it kind of is now where I think some kids would think, you know, sell, you know, they'd be like, well, that's a good thing. And I think, you know, there's not the weight to it anymore. Back in the day, I mean, not for me, even, but, you know, I think of the artists that I look up to from the 90s or the 80s or whatever, you know, it's like, yeah, there's things that you just don't want to do.

But now it's, I feel like, I don't know, the more you can, the more numbers, the more this, the more that. Yeah, I like DIY, making it feel fulfilled, but I think it might just be, you know, not even by my own design, like I might just not play well with others, you know, which is fair enough, but it is, I've seen the industry change in a way over the past couple of years, where especially like, you know, I guess people would consider me an independent artist or India, so whatever, that term doesn't really make any sense anymore either. Yeah.

You know, indie artists are getting like multi-million dollar record contracts with like, you know, these big indie label. It doesn't, yeah, it doesn't. I do think all the words have lost. It's a little, it's a little blurry now. It is blurry. And which is cool in a way, because it's like there's, you know, all these different genres and all these different people from all walks.

So it's really easy for, you know, very, very big artists to find a very small artist, whatever, vice versa. And there's kind of blending or whatever, but, you know, it all comes back to what I was saying before about, um, maybe that, uh, that, I like that kind of zen, like, organized kind of, I want to stay in my little box and keep it like, I don't, collaborating here. I don't know what that's going to work. You just want to keep it safe. Yeah. Well, I just want to keep it like, I want to keep it me, I think,

which is like in the world we're living in right now, where AI can write your lyrics for you, they can write your music for you, or you can get a pop song written by like 15 people in some weird studio, it's like, that's great. And if you want to make money, go ahead and make money, and like go and do, you know, you can go to university to learn how to write pop songs.

That's fine, or to be in the industry or whatever. Like if you want to do that, and you want to make money doing it, whatever, you know, you can go to university to learn how to write pop songs. That's fine, or to be in the industry or whatever. Like if you wanna do that and you wanna make money doing it, whatever, you know, good luck, you know, you go and do it, you're gonna have trouble once I burn all the money. But I think this world we're living in, it's like the most invaluable thing now is like the person making the music, or the, you know, it's like that's like so, that to me, it doesn't matter what it sounds like even anymore.

It's like if the intention is right, and like the person is injecting themselves into it, like, then I would love to listen to it. Yeah, it makes me feel. You know, if it's real enough, and I hope that, you know, I can achieve that. I think maybe that's part of maybe why people, you know, come to my music sometimes, but.

Have you had that philosophy about, you know, come to my music sometimes, but. Have you had that philosophy about, you know, keeping your creative process sort of within your box and keeping it sort of, you, have you had that philosophy the whole time or have there been moments when you were like, I'm losing it a little bit, like I kind of want to go this other direction. I think that I'm, here's the other thing,

I'm not very skilled, I'm not very trained, I don't really know what I'm doing. You're very skilled. I can that I'm, here's the other thing, I'm not very skilled. I'm not very trained. I don't really know what I'm doing. You're very skilled. I can do what I can do. It's like, I can only do me. And I think it's never been very difficult for me to do me because I'm me, totally.

Even when I try and emulate something, I never quite get there. Totally. And then you end up with something which is just your own, I guess, but it's, I don't know. I've been in a couple of situations over the last couple of years where you collaborate with someone and it's like, it's, you know, it's cool. I'm down to try it out. I'm not very good at it. It kind of makes me feel uncomfortable. And some instances where it's kind of like, ah, you kind of just wanted

my Spotify followers. Totally. But it's, you know, there's instances like that. And I'm not throwing any shade or anything, but it's like, I understand people are trying to everybody wants to elevate and link and build and do this and that and the other thing. And it's like, it's fine. I don't know. It's just like, when I find something that is like very like, like fulfills your soul artistically now, it's just like, oh my god, protect this thing. Yes. This is great, you know, because it is, you see it more and more nowadays,

and it's happened to me before, you know, you do something that grabs people's attention, and or you, you know, happened to me before. You do something that grabs people's attention and the numbers go one way or another, you make money off something. There's people to come around kind of being like, hey kid, like what you're doing over there. It's kind of like, yeah. But I think for the most part over my career,

it's like I've wanted to retain what I have and keep it small, even with this label that we're doing now, I like it, it's like a village, you know? It's like, I have these artists that I'm working with and my friends and I believe in their music. And if they want to come over and record it, my studio, they can't, they help mix into a problem. Like, I'd like to help as much to share their stuff,

but it's at the, you know, that's not the, trying to make money off. I, you know, that doesn't really come into the thing. Yeah. Obviously you need money to like make finals or whatever, help people out or whatever, but it's like Yeah. Obviously, you need money to make finals or whatever, help people out or whatever, but it's like, I think I just wanted to feel like a village. I was thinking about this earlier today

as I was sweeping my bricks in the backyard before I came over here. And it's like, everybody's here. We're doing these creative things. We feel comfortable together. It's like a ranch and we're, this sound a little callty all of a sudden, but. No, see, I know what you mean.

Something like that. It's kind of like, look at this, we're able to survive and dwell and make beautiful things, and like that's, for me, that's all I want to do. I just make the things that I want to make, and I'm getting pretty close to like, having this kind of self-sustaining, you know, I guess, financial situation where

it doesn't really matter how anything I make is received. I can just make the stuff that I want to make. And the one-way in G thing is exactly that. It's kind of like people were like, where are you been for the last five years? It's like, well, I've just been doing this. And it felt good. You can have it. You know?

It's this episode is all about freedom. That's right. It's about freedom. How have you navigated sort of being in the public eye and like maintaining your friendships you've had a long-term relationship? Yeah. How have you kept it together? I mean, you know. Because you've been doing it for a while. I have. I think that the key thing is that I never got too big. I mean, I've always kind of been chilling in like a general kind of like, you know, I'm not, you know, I have friends with the music industry that have security guards and shit

like that. You know, it's like, I don't, nobody, you know, I think also it's the demeanor that I've always carried to where it's kind of like, you know, people have this predisposed like, I can go say what's up to Mac. And it's like, yes, you can. It's like, you know, bother me. Like, it's totally cool. Like, I appreciate it. You know, I don't know. I'm lucky in a lot of ways. It's like, I just think I've never been famous enough to like, not go to the grocery store. Like, that's crazy.

You know what I mean? But I mean, some people are. But I think I've just always been in this sweet spot. I don't know. That's in a great place to be. It's cool. I think a lot of people get lost in the sauce. I want to do the fancy thing and this that, you know,

it's tough. You know, it's tough. It's tough. Sometimes you feel pretty isolated. Making new friends can be difficult or even keeping in touch with old friends. I've moved around a lot. But I've always had a very, I see you when I see it, kind of mentality.

I think it's paid off over the years. I think not letting yourself go all Hollywood mode can save you from a lot of grief shockingly. It's tough here though. It's tough to because there's a lot of Hollywood mode here. It's crazy. I mean I think something that really has kept me personally saying is like I try not to get too involved in like, you know, going to this sort of fancy parties, or going to, I'll dip in, but I think, you know, you have to walk away and go back to your life after.

Absolutely. I think that's like the, just, honestly, I think that's the key to happiness in a lot of ways because I feel like you go and you do that stuff and then you're like, this was kind of shitty. I think too, you know, you get this feeling of the grass is always gonna be greener at these events or these things or whatever.

And I went to enough of them where I was kind of like, usually I'm kind of like, well, it's cool that I was, it's a situation where it's like, the cool part is that you got invited or something. You go and it's not really that much fun. I'd probably have more fun in my backyard. But then there's a one every once in a while that is crazy.

Maybe it is just getting older. But since I've been in my 30s, it's kind of like, as opposed to going to the fancy party or whatever the event or the celebs. I'd rather just go to a dimly lit restaurant that they'll let you hang out in for three hours. Have a bowling aes or something. That sounds great. I don't know.

That's actually, I like to go to a place like that and people watch there. That's great too, man. Best night ever. There's a lot of that in LA. That's another thing in LA has a lot of really old, funny restaurants, like Musone Frank or like, Dan Tana.

I love going to Dan Tana. I mean, you got to Dan Tana because I drive by all the time. Last I'll tell you this, last time I went to Dan Tana, my friend, Tal Wann, was in town. He's my old friend. We lived with him in New York and he's a Argentinian guy and he came through and I was like, Juan, you know, you know how to ride motorcycles? He's like, yeah, yeah, no problem. I was like, okay, so with me and him and I was like, Juan, you know, you know how to ride motorcycles.

He's like, yeah, no problem. I was like, okay, so with me and him and my other friend, Dan, we got on the bikes, we drove out to Dan 10 and we're gonna have a nice dinner and nice Italian dinner. And we get there and we park the bikes and we're going in and I go to open the door and as I open the door, there's some people coming out. And there was these two women and a shorter man

with huge, hard looking hair. And he looks right up at me. He's like, oh, okay, all right, all right. Al Pacino. It was Al Pacino. And I was like, oh my God. And it just kind of froze. And he came out and all these guys were like,

Mr. Pacino, Mr. Pacino. And the women were like, you're being too rough with him. But he took photos of everybody, it was cool, but it was just like, that's fucking amazing. That's the thing with the, you know, Dantana is a classic Italian America spot. It's a red tip, checker tape cloth,

like it's been there forever. And, you know, the mom's from a New Mexico. They still go. Like I bet Joe Pesci still goes there. Robert De Niro probably still goes there. Incredible. I love it.

I love. I'm gonna go and give you a full like, I'm gonna give you a review. It's the best. What should I order? You know what I do is the chicken chicken Parmesan with this angel hair pasta. It's all kind. It's simple. It's red sauce. So you got to keep it simple. It's good. It's good. I love it. I love dantana. I love it. Everyone go to dantana. Yeah. Sponsored by Dantana. I love it. Everyone go to Dantana. Yeah. Sponsored by Dantana. Yeah.

Thanks for coming on. Emma has been my pleasure. And this is just the beginning of a beautiful friendship. My new co-host, Mac Demarco, will be here every third episode of the month. Wow. Hey, don't tease him. I'll do it. I live like five minutes away.

No, I know. We need to start doing like we can like five minutes away. No, I know you Start doing like we can create our own show. Okay, perfect. This episode is brought to you by the all-new 2024 Chevy tracks pack lightly. It's okay if you didn't in the all-new 2024 Chevy tracks you in all your family all your friends all your, all your friends, all your kids, all your pets have all the space and versatility you deserve in need for your next big adventure. With large modern display screens, wireless phone connectivity and affordable pricing, this small SUV is actually kind of a big deal. And with the option to choose between stylish designs

like the cool, confident, active or the ultra-sporty RS, you're sure to find that the all-new Chevy tracks fits your budget and whatever your style may be. Visit Chevy.com forward slash tracks to learn more. more.