anything goes with emma chamberlain - character assassination

Episode Date: March 30, 2023

i've had character assassination on my list of topics for weeks now, because it didn't feel particularly relevant to my life. but the topic became incredibly relevant to my personal life recently, so here we are. character assassination is the malicious and unjustified harming of a person's good reputation. i think it can come in two main forms. number one, a completely fabricated story that doesn't have an ounce of truth in it, that's created simply to harm someone's reputation. and then the second type is a dramatized negative version of the truth. so this is taking a little piece of truth and twisting it into something that is far more negative and defamatory than it actually is. this has always been an issue for public figures and celebrities. character assassination sells. but i would say prior to the internet, there was no way for the average person to just go viral on a whim like it's possible now. the moral of the story is anyone now can be the victim of public shaming and public character assassination at an astronomically larger scale than necessary. and before we go any further, i'd like to tell my story of my own character sort of being assassinated recently. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I've had character assassination on my list of topics for weeks now. But I hadn't gotten around to it because it didn't feel particularly relevant to my life. And I tend to be the most drawn to topics that are relevant to my life at a given moment, whether they're relevant because of recent experiences or they're relevant because a topic is heavy on my mind for whatever reason. Character assassination was kind of on my mind, but not heavily on my mind. So just sort of sat there on my list of topics, collecting dust.

But for some reason, the universe wants me to make this episode because it made the topic incredibly relevant in my personal life recently. So now here we are making this episode. I think I might have accidentally manifested this topic. So that's kind of unfortunate. You know, I don't think manifesting character assassination is fun. So whoops, but regardless. Here we are talking about character assassination. So before we begin, let's discuss what character assassination is. It is the malicious and unjustified harming

of a person's good reputation. I think character assassination can come in two main forms. Number one, it can come in the form of rumors, you know, a completely fabricated story that doesn't have an ounce of truth in it that's created simply to harm someone's reputation, right? A complete lie, a complete false story. And then the second type, I would say, is a dramaticized negative version negative version of the truth. So this is sort of like taking a little piece of truth and distorting it and twisting it into something that is far more negative and defamatory

than what the truth actually is. I would argue this second type of character assassination is a bit more complicated and messy because it does have a slight root in reality. You know, it's not this complete fabrication. It is taking a teeny piece of truth and turning it into something that is false. But because there's this teeny little bit of truth in there, it gets a little confusing because there's a tiny bit of evidence supporting this fabricated story. Not fun, okay? Neither are fun.

I think character assassination can be found in many places. It can be found in a community, you know, at school, at work, in a small town. It can happen within a smaller environment, right? Regardless, it's still terribly upsetting. And even though in theory, if your character has been assassinated within a small community, even if in theory, you can leave that community, you can leave that environment, you can escape to another part of the world, and your character can be renewed in a way, in a new environment.

It doesn't matter. It still feels like the whole world is against you when a rumor has spread about you that makes you look bad and your familiar world feels like your whole world. You know, I look back to when I was in high school. I was so heavily involved in high school. You know, I went every single day, five days a week, okay, not every day, because I didn't go on the weekends, but I went to school five days a week

for nine hours a day, and that became my world, because it was consuming so much of my time. So even though there was a massive world outside of my school, it felt like my whole world was my school because I was there so often and I was so heavily involved in that environment. And so I think character assassination that happens within your small community might feel

kind of small when you look at it from a bird's-eye view and you see how large the world is and you know how easy it could be in theory to escape the rumors, etc. It doesn't feel like that in the moment. Even if it's on a small scale, it can still feel catastrophic because small environments and communities can feel like our world at times, depending on our life circumstances. So that's one instance where a character assassination exists. It can also exist online in the media. I would say prior to the internet, the majority of people who had experienced character assassination

on a public worldwide scale were people who were intentionally celebrities and public figures. You know, there was no way for the average person to just go viral on a whim like it's possible now. So for the most part, anyone who is being publicly talked about on a worldwide scale were celebrities and public figures who were in a way consenting to being public figures, right? I've talked about this before.

You choose to be in the public eye. You choose to be famous. There are ways to escape it. I know that I personally am aware of the struggles and the challenges of being in the public eye, but yet I take full responsibility for continuing to be in the public eye because I could leave. I could quit. I could just delete all my social media platforms, delete my podcast. I don't need to do this.

You know what I mean? I'm actively choosing to do this. So I take full responsibility for the fact that I'm a public figure and what comes with that, comes with that and so be it. Anyway, prior to the internet, for the most part, character assassination on a worldwide scale happened to public figures and celebrities.

Until this day, that still happens, and it's not getting any better. Okay, it's not getting any better. It was bad in history and it's bad now. It's always been an issue for public figures and celebrities. Character assassination sells. But now we have a new issue for the average person who actually doesn't want to be a public figure. They can now have their character assassinated on a worldwide public stage, just like celebrities and public figures, except they are not consenting to it. They are not necessarily cool with it, but because of the way the internet works now, it's a possibility because things like YouTube

and TikTok and Instagram all support anyone. You know, they support anyone, right? Like whoever posts onto the platform has the chance of going viral, it's very user friendly to post whatever you want, whenever you want. There's not a lot of hoops to jump through to post a video on the internet that could go viral.

You know what I'm saying? So now a video or a story about someone that's false Now, a video or a story about someone that's false or dramaticized or taken out of context can completely go viral and ruin someone's life. And we've seen it happen. There's one example that comes to mind. There was this TikTok phenomenon around this guy called couch guy. Okay, some of you probably remember this. Some of you might not. I actually wasn't on TikTok at the time when this happened.

I had already deleted the app off my phone, but I heard about it because it was like in the news, which is, there were articles about this. Like I can't even comprehend that, but whatever because this is such a ridiculous story. In summary, what happened was there was this TikTok video that went viral where this girl surprised her boyfriend in college, right?

Her boyfriend's in college. She, you know, traveled to visit him and there's a video of her walking and surprising him and he didn't seem as excited as people may expect him to seem, right? People were obsessed with this video. They were like, this guy doesn't love her, this guy's cheating on her, or like she sucks, she's a bad girlfriend, that's why he's not excited. People were coming to all of these conclusions about this couple based on a 15 second video.

And this kid, okay, this boy, couch guy, whatever, he did not expect this, he just got filmed, okay, by his friend or something, being surprised by his girlfriend. He didn't probably think the video was gonna get more than 50 views if that. He might not even have known that the video is going to get more than 50 views. If that, he might not even have known that the video was going to be posted. I'm not sure. But the moral of the story is anyone now can be the victim of public shaming and public

character assassination at an astronomically larger scale than necessary. So that's an added complexity of our time. I love just talking about the internet like I'm a fucking grandma. Ooh, back in my day. You could escape characters as a nation because it wasn't on the internet. Before the internet,

we had freedom, like whatever. Okay, my thing is being a grandma about the internet, talking about it, like a grandma. That's just my thing, even though it's very ironic because my whole career is on the internet, like my career is on the internet, make it make sense. But anyway, I feel like that's a really good sort of picture of character assassination, what it is, where it can happen, who it can happen to, on what scale it can happen, there it is. Before we go any further, I'd like to tell my story of my own character sort of being assassinated recently.

So I started getting DMs and Instagram comments, asking me why I was selling a DM for $10,000. And I was like, what? A DM for $10,000? I was like, okay, well, that's ridiculous. That must be an online scam somewhere. That must be scam comments. There's no way that this is real because I've never even considered or thought about selling

a fucking DM for $10,000. Also, that's never even been a thought in my head for one. But for two, I'm very much in control of all elements of my business. And I know for a fact that I have never consented to that happening or presented that idea or put it into action. So to me, when I was seeing these comments, I was like, okay, well, this is clearly not true or not real. Because on my end, it's actually impossible. So that was my mindset, right? When I started seeing these comments, but they started becoming kind of an issue. I was starting to see more and more of these comments about me selling a DM for $10,000. And I was like, what is everyone talking about?

I was so perplexed. I could not figure out where this was coming from. And so I go on my merch website. I look up the URL, whatever. I search it up. And I pull up the page, and I don't see anything. I still don't see anything. Nothing's out of the ordinary.

There's no DM being sold for $10,000. I knew that my team and I would have never put this up anyway. So the only way it was possible is if the website had somehow gotten hacked, but anything's possible. So I was like, well, I need to check just to make sure, you know, something sketchy and weird isn't going on. But alas, I saw nothing. So the homepage of my merch website

looked completely normal to me. I was digging around trying to see if there was any weird links on the page, any kind of weird hack-like behavior going on, couldn't find a thing. So I was like, all right, this is so bizarre. I contacted my merch company because they were on the website. And I was like, hey, just so you know, people are saying that on my merch website, we're

selling a DM for $10,000. I don't understand this. Obviously, we would never do this. Can you look into it? I don't understand websites. I can't look into it myself. I'm not a coding magician here. So, investigate it for me, please, because I don't know what's going on. Meanwhile, as we're trying to figure out how this happened, articles start coming

out with screenshots showing that this is true. Somehow, there was now a homepage that looked like it was from my website that showed a DM being sold for 10,000. And I was like, how is this real? It's not on the homepage. Where is it? Like, where did this screenshot come from?

I was wondering if it was Photoshopped. I was wondering, I could not figure out what the issue was. And articles were starting to come out about it, saying that I was selling a DM for $10,000. Meanwhile, I'm just as confused as everyone else. I'm like, no, I'm not selling a DM for $10,000. But also this looks real. So even I'm confused.

I'm like, is this a hack? What the fuck happened? I'm starting to freak out. Freak out because I was like, this is not who I am. what the fuck happened? I'm starting to freak out, freak out, because I was like, this is not who I am. You know, I would never, in a trillion years, sell a DM for $10,000. Like that is like the farthest thing from something I would do.

Like I couldn't even come up with that idea, okay. And then, you know, I'm starting to see it. It's like blowing up on Twitter, fellow people in this industry are starting to like make jokes about it and stuff as if it's real, which kind of adds legitimacy to it in a way, which was completely stressing me out, because I was like, you know, this is starting to look like a real thing that I did. Yet I'm just as confused about where this even came from as everyone else. So I'm starting to sort of lose it because in this moment, I'm realizing that my identity is out of my control in some ways, you know, and I consent to it because I consent to being on the internet.

I choose to be a public figure. And so this is sort of par for the course, but regardless, it was scary for me. I was like, wait a minute. How is this? I don't even know what's going on yet. This is completely picking up steam and becoming a monster. And it's incorrectly portraying me as a person. And yet I feel defenseless because I don't even know what to say

because I don't even understand what's happening, right? Okay, well, to make a long story short, my merch company did some digging on the back end and figured out what happened. So I'll read you their statement just briefly because I don't want to butcher their words. Here was what my merch company said. There have been false and inaccurate claims that Emma Chamberlain, that's me, was offering DMs in exchange for $10,000.

As background in 2018, Kozak, Emma's Merch Company, my Merch Company, was testing a prospective reward program related to Emma's Merch without her knowledge. In testing, they created an outrageous, never-activated reward level that was not intended to be active or purchased. These reward ideas were never run by Emma since they were never meant to be available for sale or for reward,

but simply intended for internal testing purposes. What we suspect is that data was activated and crawled by Google's SEO indexing system and discovered by an individual who then began spreading false information to press outlets. This was never made public and certainly was never planned to be sold or purchased. The test program was never discoverable on the main page or product listing site, which is another reason that Emma may had no knowledge of this. Whatever. Okay, so that's kind of what happened.

To be honest, I don't even understand how websites work, but basically they were doing internal testing. And when you're testing something, when you're testing a function of a website or whatever, you don't necessarily use accurate numbers and stuff like that. And I think that's kind of what happened here. They were kind of just coming up with a test scenario for the reward system on the back end. And it was never on the front end of the website.

It was something that had to be found in searched for in a way that was not obvious. And that's why I couldn't find it at first and that's why it just wasn't visible on the page. But someone found it and somebody just started spreading rumors that this was like a real thing that I was doing, even though it was not something that was ever for sale. Nobody could have clicked purchase and actually purchased it.

The page was not even functional because it was a test page. I don't even understand the shit, okay? But more of the story is this is what happened, okay? But people really believed it, which scared me. You know, I watched people's opinions roll in about the situation. And people just took it as fact. And to a certain extent, I kind of understand it. If press outlets are reporting on it,

or drama accounts are reporting on it, it's easy to read something and just take it as fact, but it's terrifying because everyone just was jumping to conclusions about it. And I kind of felt powerless in a way because I just, you know, was jumping to conclusions about it. And I kind of felt powerless in a way because I was like, okay, well, I don't even really understand what's going on quite yet. And I don't really know what to say. I don't know what to say because I don't fucking know what's going on. And I immediately felt out of control and scared. I feared that a lot of people were going to have a permanently

tainted view of me. And although that is par for the course in this industry, being a public figure, it was still incredibly frightening for me. And upsetting, and it was upsetting. And part of me knew that this wasn't that big of a deal, and that nobody was harmed in the process, and that everything's going to be okay, and it's not that big of a deal and that nobody was harmed in the process and that everything's going to be okay and it's not that big of a deal and it's not true.

And I know it's not true. And so I guess that's all that really matters as much as I knew all of that. In the moment it felt catastrophic. It did. I mean, I had a really hard time with this and I will say I'm definitely very sensitive, especially when it comes to people being hard on me and stuff like that, or rumors starting about me. I'm particularly sensitive about these things

because I do work really hard to be a morally good person. And it's such a priority for me. And it's something that I'm proud of as well. I'm not perfect, I fuck up all the time. I mean, I talk shit about people sometimes. You know, I'm in a bad mood sometimes and I might not be as warm and fuzzy with people as I wish I was 24-7. But for the most part, I would say 80 to 90% of the time, I'm proud of who I am morally and as a person, you know, I am. And I leave room for myself to make mistakes because we have to.

But for the most part, that's something I'm really proud of. And it's something I've worked really hard at. I'm the best person now that I've ever been. When I was younger, I was still a good person, I guess, but I wasn't even remotely as thoughtful and caring and compassionate I would argue as I am now. Like I've grown a lot and I've really worked on those qualities and I've tried to build those within myself as much as possible and I'm proud of it. I'm really fucking proud of it.

So when something like a rumor that portrays me as somebody who is inconsiderate and sell out and a manipulator, it's so hard for me because I work so hard for that to not be true. And I think that's why I'm so sensitive about these things. Because I really do want people to know that I care about them as well, you know? And being in the public eye, it's like, people support me and care about me. And I want to support and care about them too. But if somebody who maybe appreciates what I do, sees something like this and then says, she's not who I thought she was. That's heartbreaking to me because the connection that I've

built with those who tune into my podcast or watch my YouTube videos when I post them occasionally or whatever, it may be that connection is so important to me. And so for that to be jeopardized for something that I didn't do, I mean, it was catastrophic for me in my mind. Even though it really wasn't that big of a deal, and I was able to clear the story up to a certain extent, and now I'm talking about it here,

but it still felt really catastrophic, even though it wasn't really that big of a deal. And nobody was really that hurt in the process. I mean, mentally it hurt me for a little bit, but we're through it now. And I feel recovered from that sort of turmoil, but that was my recent experience. And it was, it sucked.

It sucked. And it was scary. You know, it's one of the worst feelings in the world. So moving on, let's sort of talk about just character assassination as a whole, because I think it is an important topic right now, because I think as a society, we're addicted to it,

and I really have this realization in a vivid way when the whole situation about the $10,000 DM happened to me. I realized, wow, we're addicted to just assassinating people's character. We love it. Like we as a society love it. Press outlets, media outlets, social media drama pages, thrive and are so successful.

And I don't know the accurate statistic, but I would imagine that 60% or maybe even more of the information that's given to us by media, press, drama pages on Instagram and TikTok and whatever, I would assume that a large majority of the information that they post is dramatized or is not even real and is carelessly posted for, you know, clicks, views, money, whatever it may be, sacrificing someone's character for the sake of money, entertainment, and numbers. And it's unfortunate. But we're addicted to it. And I can say that because I kind of am too, even

though when it happened to me in a way that wasn't even that serious or detrimental, it happening to me was so psychologically challenging for me. Yet when I see a dramatic post about someone else that could be false or dramaticized, I read it and eat it up. I eat this shit up. I mean, I don't go in common about it. I don't like the post. I don't go and start spreading the rumor further beyond my very close circle.

But when I see or hear about information that is negative about someone, I sort of take it as fact. I sort of jump to conclusions. And I weirdly feel entertained by it. Like, I feel entertained by it on a personal level, right? I feel entertained by it on a personal level, right? I'm aware of that. As much as I do not condone character assassination or rumors or drama or any of this, as much as I don't condone it, I get why it sells. I understand why character assassination

is worse now more than ever. Our attention spans are getting worse and in order for us to feel mentally stimulated, we need something shocking, we need something crazy, we need something interesting and nothing's more interesting than a negative story about someone we know. So, it makes sense that individuals who want to go viral on social media might fabricate a story to go viral. Or media companies press outlets might fabricate or dramaticize a story in order to get a lot of views, get a lot of clicks, get a lot of clicks, make

a lot of money, whatever. It all makes sense to me why this is such an issue now. But I do think it's ruining people's lives. And I think the first step to kind of fighting this issue is just being aware of it. And I think the most that you can do is just alter your own behavior and alter your own mindset. And that's just the most that, you know, you as an individual can do.

But anyway, let's analyze character assassination. So as I mentioned earlier, character assassination can start from the desire for attention. Whether it's an individual fabricating a story or it's a press outlet trying to get views, when it comes to mass character assassination on the world stage, usually the desire there is to go viral in some way, right? That's one way the character assassination can start. It can also start when people are bored. You know, again, these sorts of rumors and stories are entertaining. And people who maybe aren't in touch with their morals or values might feel bored one day and say, I'm just going to start this rumor like fuck it.

Or they could maybe convince themselves in their mind that a story is true when it's not because they're just so bored that their brain needs something to chew on. And so they might, without even realize it, turn nothing into something. And last but not least, it can stem from jealousy. Jealousy is quite the feeling, you know, being jealous of somebody is not fun. And it really can threaten your ego. It can really threaten your self-esteem. And when someone makes you feel jealous, you

turn into the worst version of yourself. And you can find yourself on the rocks morally, you know what I mean? Things that you would never do normally become an option in your mind when you're jealous because it just beats you down, right? It takes you down to a bad level. Now, if you're someone who's in touch with your jealousy, I would say, I am.

I definitely, of course I get jealous. Of course I get jealous. But I'm aware of my feelings of jealousy and the way that I combat them is by trying to be mindful and shift my mindset and say, you know what? Don't be jealous of this person. Use them as some sort of inspiration.

You know, if I'm jealous of this person, it's a sign that there's something about them that feels threatening to me. Well, why is it threatening? It's because I think that they're better at something than me. Okay, well, that's actually really cool, you know, maybe they can inspire me to better myself in some way. Now it's not easy, it's a lot easier said than done, but I try to be mindful when I'm jealous. And to say, you know what?

It's okay to feel jealous. And you're allowed to feel jealous. But you can't act on it. Keep it to yourself. Suffer through the discomfort. Come out the other side. Let it go. And nobody was harmed. You know, maybe you might feel harmed in a way because psychologically being jealous is not fun, but nobody else was harmed. And that discomfort that you feel when you're jealous might inspire you to eventually, you know, form a better relationship with jealousy

and learn how to cope with it better. But the most important thing is that nobody else was harmed. But I think jealousy, because of the way that it impacts us psychologically, you know, can make us do things that are wrong. It can make us want to assassinate someone's character wrongfully. And so jealousy is usually one of the key ingredients in character assassination. So why is character assassination so dangerous and so damaging? I think the first reason is that most people don't actually care about the truth.

I've noticed this especially on the internet. You know, a defamatory story comes out about a public figure or about an innocent human being. And then the truth comes out. You know, the person is able to speak truth to their character and say, no, this is not the truth. This is not accurate. This is not who I am, you guys have it all wrong and here's the situation, here's what happened, here's the truth, here's who I am, the truth can come out. But what's interesting is, is that once the character assassination has been accepted on a large scale. It's almost irreversible at times because people don't care about the truth.

They like the dramatic story. Most people don't care to change their mind once they have been proven wrong. And once they find out that what they had believed is not true, what's really, really dangerous about these sorts of rumors and stories is that they almost become fact at a certain point. Because when a large enough group

believes the same distorted sense of reality, it may as well be true, because the world is behaving as though it is true, so it might as well be true. So if there's a rumor that someone is an asshole to waiters and waitresses, even though that's not true, when they go and eat out at restaurants in their neighborhood or something, the waiters and waitresses might all treat them like shit and be rude to them and like spit in their food and put boogers in their

food. I don't know. And even though it's not true that that person is rude to waiters and waitresses at the restaurants and the neighborhood, when everyone behaves like it's true, it almost in a way becomes true because the world around you is acting as though it is. And that's incredibly dangerous. And it's completely unfair. And it's scary. I think the reason why people don't care to believe the truth when it eventually comes out is because I think a lot of people would feel bad about themselves if they did accept the fact that they were fed a nasty rumor and they ate it up and they digested it and they took it as fact when it wasn't true. And then maybe they spread the rumor themselves and they added to the fire and they made it

worse. I think a lot of people would feel bad about that. I think a lot of people do feel bad about that when they realize, oh, wait a minute, I was a part of a rumor that damaged someone's life and it wasn't true. So I think a lot of people come up with excuses for themselves saying, well, of course they're saying it's not true because like it makes them look bad. Of course they're trying to fight the truth here, you know, because they don't want to

believe that they fed into something that wasn't real. Because that shatters their foundation a little bit. When you take something as fact and then it ends up not being true, that's like a blow to your reality and to your ego. It's a blow to your reality because when we take something as fact, we take it as fact and we live as though it's true. And then when it turns out it's not true, you feel like you've been living a lie,

which is uncomfortable. On top of that, it's a blow to your ego because we like to think that we're smart. We like to think that we have good judgment. We like to think that we're not gullible. And if we find out that we are, well, that doesn't feel so good for our ego. So as much as it may seem like buying into a rumor,

doesn't really have anything to do with the individual who buys into it, it absolutely does. And accepting the fact later that you bought into something that wasn't true, could be damaging to yourself in a way. And so I think that's why a lot of people don't want to believe the truth. We'd rather just believe the story and be entertained by it than mend that person's character

in our minds. So I think the most dangerous thing about it is that even when it's proven incorrect, even when somebody's character is mended in some way, there's a good chance that a lot of people aren't gonna believe it, or they're not going to want to believe it. And that's dangerous because now something that's not true

is damaging somebody and it's just not fair. The victim of character assassination can feel powerless. You know, their reputation being permanently tainted by something they didn't do at all. Or even if they maybe did make a little mistake and it got blown out of proportion to a level that would be considered character assassination. They're powerless in the sense that at times they're not given any room to straighten up

the story or learn and grow from their little mistake that got dramaticized. Now, I want to be clear, there are mistakes that people make that are severe. And I would say when those mistakes are brought to light, that's not necessarily character assassination because the person assassinated their own character by doing something really morally wrong. And so I think that that's different. But there are times when things are taken out of context. There are times when things are completely dramaticized beyond necessary level.

And that's when it's character assassination. But it's scary and sad that a lot of times there's not room to grow. There's not room to explain. There's not room to apologize if there was a little mistake that was made. There's no room. The victim of character assassination is powerless, and they'll feel that. They'll feel that on a mental level. The psychological pain that comes with it is,

I mean, it's intense. I've felt it a few times over the course of my life. This is not the first time that I've felt that my character has been assassinated. You know, this has happened a few times on the internet. This has happened before I was even on the internet. There's a specific memory I have in middle school where this happened to me. This has happened to me throughout my life.

And there's some of the most painful experiences I've ever had because there's something about feeling powerless that is just excruciating. And there's something about not feeling in control of your identity that is excruciating. And I honestly wouldn't wish the feeling on my worst enemy. I truly, I wouldn't, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I truly, I wouldn't, I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. I think the last damaging element of character assassination

is how easy it is for it to be blown out of proportion. It seems stories spread and become a little more dramatic with every talent. People embellish stories to make them more interesting. People dramaticize stories to make them more interesting. And faster than we can even imagine, something can completely turn into a wildfire. You know, it can spread like wildfire,

and it can get worse and worse and worse with every telling, with every demonstration of the story, it can get worse because we have a tendency to embellish for entertainment's sake. And it might seem harmless at the time. Like, oh, I'm just adding a little bit of embellishment to this story, but it's still the same story. But then when every time it's told, it's a little bit more embellished by somebody else. It can truly morph into something catastrophic. And at times, it can grow to a point that it's almost unrecognizable to what actually happened. Or if it didn't happen at all, it can turn into something that is just so incredibly not true that it's like, how did this even come to be?

I'll give some examples. Let's say a girl is dating a really hot guy, right? And a bunch of other girls are pissed. They're jealous. This happens a lot in high school, you know. A lot of other girls are jealous. So they spread a rumor that the girl cheated on him. And every time the story gets told around the school, it changes a little bit. It's like, it starts out with like, yep, she cheated on him. And then the next time it's told, it's like, she cheated on him. And I heard when she cheated on him, like they had sex in like the bathroom. And then the next time the story is told, it's like,

yeah, she cheated on him. And I heard that they had sex in the bathroom and that he peed on her. You see what I'm saying? And then she just turned into this incredibly insane. And then the next time it's told, they could be like, I heard that she cheated on him. They had sex in the bathroom.

He peed on her. And actually, they've been talking for three years. Do you see what I'm saying? It just keeps going. And it, people just add little weird thing and it just can turn into something crazy and out of control. And then let's say that couple breaks up, right?

So now that rumor is now believed is true. That couple breaks up. How fucking terrible is that? And it happens. And it fucking happens. It's awful. It's awful, but it happens. Ugh, it's so awful.

I'll give one more example of how it can get blown out of proportion. Let's say someone forgot to pick up their dog poop. And their neighbor just happened to be watching out the window and watched it happen. At first, the neighbor goes around and starts telling people, yeah, they don't pick up their dog poop.

Then the story turns into, they don't pick up their dog poop and their backyard is filled with dog poop and it reeks. Then the story becomes, they don't groom their dog either. They don't pick up their poop, they don't take care of their dog. Next thing you know, the whole town thinks

that this person abuses their dog. It might sound irrational, it might sound unrealistic, it's not. This is how shit happens. Now, let's dig into why we fall for it. Why are we so susceptible to this type of behavior? Number one, it's simply something to talk about. It's easy to bond with others over.

There's one thing that is universal. Okay, everyone's interested in it. I would argue. I don't know anyone who's not drama. It's so easy to lean on drama in rumors to keep a conversation going. It's universally interesting and it's kind of a no-brainer. It's just like a no-brainer. It's like, yeah, I know everyone's going to be interested in this. It just feels safe almost at times for some people. And it doesn't matter if the rumor is true or not in a heated moment of conversation. When you're trying to keep the conversation going with someone, you're just kind of trying to survive it. I think most

people are sort of just trying to keep things flowing in a way that's comfortable and easy. And if you start to feel low in the conversation, it's automatic at times to just bring up some sort of drama because it's something you can analyze for hours and almost never get bored. I mean, within my close circle, you know, I'm talking about my parents, I'm talking about my boyfriend, I'm talking about my closest friends, like the three I have, within my close circle, you know, I'm talking about my parents, I'm talking about my boyfriend, I'm talking about my closest friends, like the three I have, okay. Those are the groups that I feel most comfortable sort of

talking about drama with because I know that it's safe with them. You know, I know that I'm not gonna feed a fire. I also know that we're all taking it with a grain of salt because I know the character of these people. You know what I'm saying? I'm very familiar with these people. And so I know it's not going to be damaging to discuss these things with them. But I try to be careful about leaning on drama

when it comes to people who I'm not close with because it can become a huge issue. And obviously, I'm not perfect. There are times when maybe I do even discuss things that are relating to drama, people who I'm not close to. But I try to be very diplomatic about it. And I try not to be overly opinionated or to consider anything as fact.

I always try to make it very clear. Like, I don't know if this is true, but if it is, I try to be conscientious there because it is something that's easy to talk about. And it is universally engaging, but that's what makes it so dangerous, is that there are times when it's safe, and maybe it is okay,

but there are also so many times when it could be really damaging. And so that's why it's such a complicated thing to navigate. Yeah. Another interesting thing about talking about drama and, you know, these types of things, is that according to my research online, discussing drama can make you secrete endorphins, which we all know are pain suppressants. So talking about drama can actually be pleasure inducing

and according to the article I read, it can give you a similar sensation to being addicted to drugs. Like you can get addicted to drama, like you get addicted to drugs. So even on a scientific level, it's undeniable that drama is satisfying and exciting, which is again dangerous because there's something in our minds that feeds off of this.

And that makes it even more complicated. I also think that we can be drawn to character assassination in a way, in rumors and all of that, because it can help us feel better about ourselves at times. You know, someone else's flaws, whether they're true or they're an assassination of character, talking about these things and reading about these things can make us feel better about ourselves. It can make us feel more confident in our own behaviors. Someone else's human failure can sort of take the pressure off you for a second because you're like, wow, that's not good what that person did. And I would never do that. So that's a little boost of confidence for me. That's a

little boost of reassurance for me. There's something weirdly fulfilling at times about hearing about someone else's failure. And that's an awful thing to admit. Okay, that's an awful thing to admit. And it's not necessarily something to be proud of. But I have to wonder if it's something we even have control over, because I think it's a universal experience. There's this level of relief in, at times, fulfillment that comes with hearing about someone else's failure, because it makes you feel comforted in a way. You feel almost like you have now more room to make mistakes because someone else made a mistake. Now, the final question is, how do we stop it? You know, how do we stop characters' asination from happening? Unfortunately, I don't have an answer. And

to be honest, I don't think it's possible. I don't think it will ever go away. So I think the best thing we can do is focus on our own behavior. You know, the key is to be responsible when it comes to your belief in a rumor. You can have the belief in a rumor. You can see an article about a celebrity. You can read an article about a celebrity. You can read an article about a celebrity and believe it's true. You can hear a rumor about your coworker and you can believe it if you want. And I would honestly argue that that's okay, but it's what you do with your belief in that

rumor that matters. You don't want to be messy with it, okay? The best thing you can do is keep the rumor to yourself. Don't spread the rumor irresponsibly. Don't start posting online about this rumor. Don't start commenting on people's photos about this rumor. Keep it to yourself and discuss it within your closest group of people.

And keep it sacred there. Keep it safe there. You can enjoy the rumor. You can temporarily believe the rumor. All of that, I think, is okay. As long as you keep it safe and you contain it within your mind, or the minds of your closest circle, the people who you trust the most, who you know are not gonna go and, I don't know, push the rumor forward. I also think that even when talking to your closest friends and family,

always being sure to disclaim that you don't know for sure if this is real. That goes such a long way. And I think that's a huge issue when it comes to character assassination is that a rumor starts. And at first everyone's saying like, well, you know, maybe in the beginning people are like, well, I'm not really sure if this is true. But and then eventually it just turns into, so anyway, maybe in the beginning people are like, well, I'm not really sure if this is true, but, and then eventually it just turns into, so anyway, this is what happened, right?

The sort of disclaimer of like, well, I actually don't know for sure if this is a fact, it just disappears at a certain point, as the rumor spreads, and eventually it turns into a whole new beast, okay? Listen, if there's like cold hard evidence that someone did something and they admitted it and whatever, then I would say it's more fair game to an extent to talk about the person, you know, I also think being empathetic to an extent

is necessary as well when discussing somebody who has admitted fault. Maybe a rumor is true. Someone who has admitted fault, apologized, rumor is true. Someone who has admitted fault, apologized, come clean, can be discussed and analyzed for entertainment purposes or for learning purposes, absolutely. But when somebody owns up to something,

I think a level of empathy is deserved, depending on what they did. I mean, I guess there's times when it's like, ooh, but I think for the most part, somebody owns up. That's actually really admirable in my opinion. And so, I don't know, a level of empathy is necessary there, I would say. I mean, while we're on the topic of empathy, I think empathy is necessary in all conversations about other people, period. You know, it's hard to do sometimes. It's so easy to look at somebody like they're just sort of an object when you're just talking about them in conversation.

It's so easy to just think of them as almost a fictional character. Like, it's easy to feel like they're not real at times. But we have to remember that everyone on this planet has feelings. Everyone, except for there's some people that don't like on a diagnosable level, but still, like even them, you even have to have empathy for them. I think we can have empathy for everyone to an extent. Almost everyone, you can find it within you.

And I think that's really important to try to tap into that as much as you can. And last but not least, I think it's so important to be ready to change your mind at any given moment. You know, you might believe a rumor upon hearing about it, but if you find out that it's not true, it's so important to be open to the idea of just changing your mind. I mean, like, oh shit. All right, that's not true. You know what? Okay, I'm not gonna make this all about me

and feel weirdly threatened by the fact that this rumor is not true. I'm just going to change my mind because that's another really admirable thing to do. I think people feel like changing their minds is like a sign of unintelligence or a sign of like not being knowledgeable enough the first time or being gullible. A lot of people feel vulnerable when it comes to changing their minds. They feel

embarrassed. They feel a crush to their ego. But I would argue changing your mind is admirable and impressive and takes humility and courage. And so having the ability to change your mind when it comes to rumors and stuff, I think, is not only admirable, but also incredibly helpful when it comes to potential character assassination. Anyway, that's all I have for today. Thank you guys so much for listening and hanging out. I really, really appreciate you spending time with me today and it was such a pleasure. It was such a pleasure. I really just love and appreciate all of you. And I don't know, we just have fun.

We just have fun. Us, we do. We have fun. New episodes of Anything Goes every Thursday and Sunday, if you wanna hang out, you can follow anything goes on Instagram at Anything Goes or on Twitter at AG podcast. You can send me messages, letting me know what you thought of this episode or any episode.

You can share what's been on your mind recently. That really inspires me when it comes to, you know, coming up with topic ideas because I just love to hear what other people have been thinking about. You can check out my coffee company, Chamberlain Coffee. Use code AG15 for a special little discount for my listeners, listen to the show. You can check out my Instagram at Emma Chamberlain

if you wanna see what I've been up to personally. And that's about it. I'll talk to you soon. Yeah, I'll talk to you soon. I'll talk to you soon. Yeah, I'll talk to you soon.