anything goes with emma chamberlain - creative fulfillment, a talk with my dad [video]

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

[video available on spotify] today we're going to be talking to my very own father, michael chamberlain, also known as “chamberlain paintings” on instagram. it's long overdue for me to talk to my dad because i don't think i would have a podcast without him. he's an oil painter, a musician, and he creates youtube videos. he's one of the most creative people i know. you're gonna love him and want him to take over the podcast. so here is a conversation with my wonderful dad, michael chamberlain.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I'm providing you with a treat. Today, we're going to be talking to my very own father, Michael Chamberlain, also known as Chamberlain paintings on Instagram, also known as CP by close friends and family. It's long overdue for me to talk to my dad because I don't think I would have a podcast without my dad. It's very similar to what it sounds like when I'm talking to my dad on the phone. You know, similar topics, similar opinions, similar ideas, similar hypotheses, more of the story is, it's long overdue.

And he only has one kid and it's me and I am a full-time job. But he's also an oil painter. He creates YouTube videos. He's also a musician, singer, songwriter, musician. He's one of the most creative people I know. He's easily the wisest person I know. And you're gonna love him more than you love me

and want him to take over the podcast. And it's gonna be fucking heartbreaking. Everybody's gonna be like, oh my god, Emma, give the podcast your dad. And honestly, he deserves it. He's gonna be like, oh my god, Emma, give the podcast to your dad. And honestly, he deserves it. He's shaking his head off camera. He's like, I don't fucking want that.

So here is a conversation with my wonderful, wonderful dad, Michael Chamberlain. So what do you want to know about me? My god. I know everything about you. So he's like, I don't know. Like, I, what about you. I don't know. Like, what? Yes, I do.

I mean, I think in some ways. Well, yeah, but yeah, okay. So not to age you at all, but. Yeah. No, it's fine. There's not to totally expose you, but a lot has happened in your life thus far. There's so many nooks and crannies. Like, I feel like I'm always finding out something new about your life and various, I don't know,

just phases that you've had, etc. What do you think is the most important for strangers to know about you? I would have to say growing up in New Jersey, so living in New Jersey until I was 14 and moving to California, like in the summer after eighth grade, I do like that I grew up back there. I do think that growing up back east, it makes me appreciate the West Coast more in a way. Like I'm so grateful for the weather and the beauty and that sort of thing. But anyway, but there's a lot I love about the East Coast as well. So I do feel like that's a big thing.

And then I was like, I think another thing, even though I'm like, I've always been a creative person, like I never stood out creatively. Like I always took our, our classes and I always took, was interested in stuff like that, but it's not like, I think, you know, even though I'm a painter for a living now, I think most of my teachers, if they were told at the time, oh, yeah, by the way, that kid, he's going to be a professional painter someday. They'd be like, what? No. There was always like the art star kids in class, the kids who stood out. That was never one of those kids. So I just love to make things and do things creatively, but I don't think I really, yeah, necessarily stood out. I went to San Diego State for two years, really enjoyed that,

but then left early to play music, moved to San Francisco, and there I kinda, once I started playing music and playing in bands, then I started meeting other musicians, and that's in a lived, yeah, and I lived in the city. Sorry, I'm loving.

Yeah. Oh, that's all right, I'm used to it. No, I know. Well, you burnt more than me. Do I, I'm living. Yeah. Oh, that's all right. I'm used to it. No, I know. Well, you burp more than me. Do I? Louder and louder. See, it's like so natural that I don't even notice. If somebody touches me, I'd be like, I don't think I ever burp.

You know, when somebody sneezes and they like make it super loud and you're like, that just didn't need to be that loud. That's right. You do that with burps, like, you burp so fucking big. For the, the atrix? I must have got that from my mom. Well, it all goes back to Graham, Auburn. That's right.

Because I'm doing it now too. I'm burping with my chest. You know why it is. You know why? Because when I hang around with you, I drink sparkly water. That's why. Yeah, so it's your fault.

Basically, what I'm saying. Okay, but anyway, yeah. So you moved to San Francisco to do music. Yep. Um, why don't you set that scene for everyone? I moved back into the house that I grew up in in foster city. And, and, but my parents were not there. Like, they both lived in separate places.

So I lived in this house. I was 19. My brother Kevin was 18 and my brother James was like, he was like 15. We all lived in the house By ourselves and we turn I turned the garage into a like we went and got like insulation and whatever my brother Kevin You know Uncle Kevin is a drummer. I know I know Kevin But Kevin was a Kevin Kevin was like you know he dropped out of school after a year We were both back home at the same time.

And- Frapp vibes. Yeah, so I was like, do you want to play drums? And, or I started playing bass at that point, and singing. And then we brought in guitar players. So we were kind of a trio. So we played for, just played in San Francisco and recorded songs.

And I played down a couple other bands after that until I was about 30. Am I getting ahead of myself? No, because my next question was, did you want this to be your job? Like when you went into starting this band and you know, you took the risk to leave school, were you like, I want to be a musician, I want to get signed with a label. Like this is what's happening. Was that the vibe in the beginning? Honestly, these thoughts were happening at college.

I thought, what am I going to do? Like I could not see myself as being, you know, sort of working in an office kind of thing and not to say anything wrong with that. That just wasn't like, I felt like I've always been a creative person. I've always loved music. It would be so ideal if I could actually make a living, you know, with music. And at that point, the only way to do it

was to be like a rock star or whatever. And the channels to do that, like the ways to do that at that point were pretty limited. And it was basically how to get a record deal. I mean, spoiler alert. You didn't get the record deal. No, no, but you know what? But what?

No, no, no. It's either you didn't want a record deal or nobody gave you a record deal. Or those are two very different sort of outcomes. So I'm curious what happened. So the first thing that happened was like that did turn me off was that somebody in the industry came and saw us and was like, really like these songs and like you're singing, but like, would you, you know, consider adding another guitar or

doing whatever. And I was sort of really resistant to having any kind of pressure to change in any kind of way. And they were actually cool. I've said, you know, I want to work on it with the guys that I'm working with, because being in that Kevin's my brother, and I was like, I just, we want to work on this. And they were like, okay, well, they were going to be patient. But that kind of thing where I started thinking, you know, having to make changes or putting pressure on us to change.

And I felt that and we did because then in the practices we started trying to conform to what it, which I don't even remember what the things they were talking about then were, but it already started to creep in and then that caused pressure or it changed the vibe of the band too. Yeah, and I wasn't experienced enough not to let that happen because I, you know, but it was all a great experience. But again, and then part part of that was, and then I started playing another band and, and with older guys that it actually done touring and had record deals and that sort of thing and hearing the stories, it didn't sound glamorous at all. So then at the age of 30, I pretty much stopped playing in rock bands, you know, or like, you know, but I still kept playing. Yeah, for you, it sounds like music before, you know, you left college and you started the band with my uncle Kevin and some

other dudes. Right. Before that point, music was a hobby for you. You just enjoyed it. Yeah. And then it was like, okay, wait, maybe this is my job. And then it went back to just being a hobby again. Yeah, but what you know, the other thing too is I think that when you're 19 years old and

you're looking at like, I don't have to support myself I got to I think that there was so much like I was so I Was really afraid I think it's normal like I think about that now I thought about how am I gonna make a living like there was no sort of business thing that I that that attracted me Terrifying time. Yeah, and I just thought, this is it. I got to go for this because this is something I love and whatever. And in a way, and that's something that I, you know,

as a painter now, I'm in a paint for a living and I have for 10 years now, it's something I've had to kind of wrestle with there as well. When you do something that you love creatively, but then you start doing it for a living. You have to make sure that the job portion of it doesn't take over and kill the joy. And that's something that is,

it's a delicate balance to do that. I feel like in some ways when I had my bills paid by something else like I was working for DHL as a courier in San Francisco. And even though I didn't make a ton of money, I didn't make that much, but I was frugal and at least all my basics were covered. I just felt like I can just be creative for fun and it's much more enjoyable not to have that pressure to sell it, you know, and so I Do think that You know if if the money comes as a result of just you doing what you naturally do

Then that's a gift and that's great But I think with a lot of creative kids and a lot of creative people I mean the reason you start is not to become famous and maybe with some kids, you know. But I think most of them, like most of the kids I know are most of the people now that are either young people that I paint with, or older people, or whatever, it's kind of all the same.

They started out as a way to, it just calmed them down, or it made them, it just was their sort of, you know, like their happy place or there, it gave them joy to make things and be creative. And I think that is where it started. So, I think that that's something that I had a sort out as well, you know. And so, so for me to be creative, it was like, I can't give that up. I need to have that as my, that's what makes me happy. And that's more important than anything. And so, yeah, so to have another income that takes some of that pressure off is really,

is allows you to do that. And so I would recommend that. Most people expect someone who goes into art as a profession, to be like a child prodigy. That's definitely not your situation. So how long had you been painting before you were like, well, maybe this is my job now, because this is my only option?

Yeah, yeah. So I started painting in 2003. So I remember it was even before I painted, like I was 38 years old. I didn't have any art experience at all except for what I had, like say, in school just that I would take art classes because I liked it. So I started painting at the age of 38, 2003. And then I was like, okay, I'm not ready. And so I worked for another, I think it was six years. Maybe more than that, I think it was like 2013 when I quit my quit everything and just was painting. Well, you know the underlying theme,

I feel like of your career is, and this is so rare, is that every career move you've made has been about your happiness and your well-being. You've never made a career choice based on money, which is interesting. I feel like we're also programmed to be like, we just need to make as much of it as fucking possible. And you are the complete opposite. You find your fulfillment so genuinely in creative endeavors and living a good life that

the way that you make money is so secondary. And that's just such a rare point of view. Well, I think that, you know, I did think about that a lot. When I left school, I read a lot, like because I was not a good student. But a lot of the books I read, I don't know, there was a lot of philosophy in there about like making life choices and things like that. And I think the thing that I really wanted was I valued freedom more than, you know, it seemed like there's a trade-off, you know, it's like, okay, you can have a lot of money or now that it's possible that both like a lot of money and freedom and obviously having

money can make you free. But if you're in my case, I just felt like if I'm frugal, then careful, then I'm getting fulfilled by these up by the freedom and the things that I have. Like like and I did a lot of stuff. Like you, I don't know if you remember when you're little, like I taught sailing for seven years, you know, and there was a little money there, but not much, but what an experience, like I learned so much through that whole thing, and then, you know, obviously music, and painting, and all these things, and all the social interactions and friends

that are associated with those things. Just made it so that life was satisfying and rich in that regard. And so that life was satisfying and rich in that regard. And so that's why it's like, I know you probably remember, it was kind of a fun challenge like when you were little to like, it's like, let's go on a cafe crawl.

Okay, today's budget, three bucks. Yeah, we would go to San Francisco and he'd be like, okay, so picture this. Sure, there's under five. Okay, under five, he'd be like, we're gonna go have a total day. It's gonna be totally fun. Right.

We're not, but we're spending $5. So when we go to the cafe, we're gonna say, can we just grab a bottle of water? Or can we just have a glass of water? No, no, because you weren't even drinking coffee. I know, so I'd like get a glass of water. Like you get like a black coffee and I get like a glass of water

and we'd be like, yes, I know, I know, I know. But we had fun and it was totally great. And those habits still, they still kind of exist. You know, most everything I do doesn't cost very much. It is a trade off and it's a choice you have to make. You know, like, I mean, it's, it is.

And it's not for everyone. No, it's not. Well, I think, I think that's what I was saying. I mean, there's a dark side to it too. Like, I mean, I'm going to be honest about it. There's been there were several times. There was several times in the process where where I thought, you know, like, because you're in the process of what? Well, like, of, this journey as being a professional painter, there were times where I thought,

what am I like, where I'd run out of money or come really close? See, my philosophy with money was always like, if I have a buffer in my account, I don't even look at my account. But then there's this gut feeling, like I think I need to look. You know, and then I'd be like,

oh, how bad is it? And one time I looked in there, it was bad. It was really bad. But was it. It was like $1.67. And this was not that long ago. And I was like, what are you doing? What are you doing? I didn't sleep like the whole night. I was just like in a panic. And I thought, what am I going to do? And that's when I thought, how old was I? 15? 14. I don't know. 13. am I going to do? And that's when I thought, how old was I? 15, 14, I'm not 13. You were literally already a YouTuber. It was not that long ago. Do you remember? Why? Actually, do you remember when you came up? There's a video where you come up

surprising my dad on his birthday. Child, I was broke. Okay. I knew this. Did you? Yes. You would know because you came up and you were like, so what I did was, so to do, I mean, maybe some of the people have seen the video. So here's what happened. So like the days before that, I was like, what am I gonna do? And then I thought, I'll throw my own show and I'll like make postcards.

Oh, you're on art show. You my own art show. So I asked Grammy Pat, I was like, can I use your house? I'm gonna put or derves and I'm gonna send out invites and invite people, I've gotta sell some paintings or whatever. And Grandpa Bob was really helpful. He took a stack of the postcards.

You know, he's like, oh, I'll hand him out. And he did, he handed out cards and he's like, you know, he's so social and everything talks to everybody. And I sold like $4,000 worth of paintings. And I'm like, I'm back in the game. And he's back. Those times where I was like against the wall, kind of like that, were so good for me.

But arguably self-inflicted, it's fascinating because you know, it's like you could have gone and gotten another job, you know what I mean? But you didn't. You know, you know what I mean? But you didn't. You hit one dollar and you said, instead of saying like, I need to go get another job that's more stable because all creative industries are completely,

completely unstable and you never know what next month is gonna look like. It's just fascinating that you threw another show instead of going and getting another job. Would you consider that behavior reckless or would you consider that intuitive? What is that? I mean, I guess it's entrepreneurial, maybe. You know, because it really is. Like, if you're going to be, and I think too, if you're going to be successful as a creative person, you have to be as creative about how you make your money as you are with your art.

And that's where like YouTube came in. That's why I was interested in YouTube, obviously. You've been making YouTube videos since YouTube came out, but it was different because you're making music. Yeah, but it wasn't until we started talking right before you started your channel, but I was thinking the same thing. I was like, I want to do something with art,

but I don't know what. I had already made a few videos where I just sat and talked to the camera about like mixing colors or something. I don't remember, but I didn't really have any, like I didn't know what I wanted to do with it or how that could end up being something that could actually bring in some additional money. So my intention when I started like a sort of painting related thing- Oh, it was more like marketing for your art. Yeah. I just didn't even know. I just thought, ah, this seems like, you know, my feeling is if you're a painter or you're a music,

if you're, if nobody knows you exist, you're selling nothing, you know? So I'm like, all right, I know how to upload things, I, you know, but what do I want to do? And that's when you wanted to, you were thinking about YouTube, and that's when you wanted to you were thinking about YouTube and that's why I was you know, well you I Was sort of thinking about YouTube, but you were like Emma you need to do you do well first of all I already had seen Your some your edits like your fun edits for that you were wearing your and I don't know if you tell my little my little Your fins to edits I can't explain this. Yeah. Yeah Well anyway anyway the bottom line is I saw some of your fun edits that you would do

And you've talked about this before that you do I did fun videos with my friends and and and like just for myself Yeah, and for my friends and my dad love them. Oh, and then you did your vibe video phase you had your vibe videos But those were good too. And I was like, yeah, she's like friends. And I used to make these videos that would be like slow mo of us like vaping totally. But the point I wanted to make though is like some of them.

They were honestly if I ever know it. But those were like, those were well done and those were cool, but the ones I liked, so you had two sort of creative, or you had two sort of video approaches. One was the vibe video, which was like maybe trying, like it was kind of cool, whatever. It was totally indisces, it was like trying to be cool and everything and all sorts.

And me wearing my Lulu lemon leggings, like trying to be like, so fucking cool. But the thing about those is the edits on those were good. Like I could see, I was like, wow, okay. The timing was good. Yeah, and the music, and I was like, okay, it's a vibe. These are like vibe videos. But the other ones that I liked that would just were

just you being a goof. Yeah, like friends giving around and like zooming in on the funny shit. Yeah, yeah, and just like I just remember one where you guys were in the gymnasium at high school and like, oh, this is so great. And you had like, I think you set up, we were bowling with chairs. Yeah, but what was it, what did you set up as bowling pins? Okay, so basically what happened was we put a bunch of chairs, set up as bowling pins, and. So basically what happened was we put a bunch of chairs set up as Boeing, set up as Boeing pins. And then there was this like rolling thing that

it was like a flat like rolling device that they were using to like transport something into the gymnasium. And so then we basically we would take turn sitting on that rolling device. And we push each other into the chair. It was like, you're in bowling. Yeah, this is what happens when you go to Catholic all-girls school and you can't flirt with boys. You have to fucking play human bowling because you're so bored. But I remember watching it.

I was like, yeah, somebody you guys are laughing and somebody would get on, you know, it's an gymnasium. So it's got that nice like slick floor or that smooth floor. Yeah, one of you would get in there and just push with all your might Just and the thing would just crashing to the chairs and I'm like this is insane No, no, that's not how it is so yeah, so I remember like watching those and I just thought There was other yeah other videos you did too, but in any case to get back to it like I was like oh these are so I thought You know when you were expressing interest about doing YouTube or whatever, I thought, go for it. Like for sure. And then at the same time, because I remember

I was thinking, yeah, I've been thinking I want to do something or related on YouTube and then that's when we started saying I was like, send me some videos that you like and I'll do the same. And that was when I found like discovered vlogging. I hadn't even looked at watching, I wasn't like I would have always gone and watched music but then I started seeing that people were like vlogging and I thought, what if I did something like vlog related about painting where you go out and you sort of record the experience of painting on location because I'm doing it already sort of incorporate that. And so then that step became my YouTube thing. Yeah, we both kind of simultaneously became YouTubers, you know?

So the thing that I think is really interesting is that, so you were 17 when you moved to LA, right? And I knew people who were musicians who moved to LA to me, the thought of moving to LA by myself. Now, obviously, just so that we don't, that your mom and I don't seem like negligent parents or whatever, we were going to be like, all right, we'll take turns being down there to make sure that you're okay. I remember you called me and you said, I'm moving to LA and you can't say no. Right? But my question is, did you have any fear about moving to L.A.?

I mean, it's like, it's six hours away at best. One that's far. Yeah, it's like almost 400 miles. From where I grew up. From the Bay Area. Yeah. So it's quite a ways. I think it was a combination of a few things.

I think number one, I was a loof to, you know, moving to this big city as a 17 year old, like what, what the dangers of that even are. I think I was a loof to it. But then I do think that I was running on adrenaline and it's like, wait, hold on, I've just spent the last year of my life, not in school. All of my peers are in school. I've been alone, not socializing with kids my age very much. The only time I get to is when I'm interacting

with my peers who are also, you know, in this industry, I felt like, wait a minute, this is my ticket to being a social being again, you know, like I want to be around people. And I was starting to get recognized by fellow YouTubers at the time. And I was like, that was so exhilarating to me. You know, all these people I had been watching on YouTube forever are now like, we watch you on YouTube. And I was like, that is, I can't handle that.

I have to move now. And I was like, I don't care about being famous, but the thing that really put the fire under my ass to succeed at it was to be friends with these people that I watched. Like it's almost like that motivated me more than anything. And I wasn't like super fan girl about it, but it was more like, oh, I genuinely think that these would be good friends.

Like we, and we also have a common hobby in a way. And we also have a common hobby in a way. Oh my God, how special would it be to have friends who have the same passion as I do for creating a video? Like that's so cool to me. Like I wanted that so bad. That is the one thing. Like I think when you called me,

you were expecting me to give pushback on that. I thought it was great. Like I thought you need to go because of that very reason that you were doing this thing, me to give push back on that, I thought it was great. I thought you need to go because of that very reason that you were doing this thing, you had committed to it. And there's no one in the Bay area that was doing that. Or maybe they were, but the whole, there were other people down here that were doing that sort of thing. So to me, it's like, yes, go for it for sure. But when I thought about it, it still impressed me like, wow, she's like 17 and she's just going

for it. And you're right. I think I thought about this too when I first came down to visit, you're not somebody who's moving to LA to get into the industry. You are already in it. Right. And it was almost like overdue. Do you know what I mean?

It was like overdue that you got down here where other people were doing things and because immediately you hit the ground running when you came down here. Well, it was automatic. I did have things to do. You know, it was like somewhat easy for me to make friends because at that point I was I was peers with these kids. It wasn't like, you know, it was clear to me because I came, I, what did I come down? I came down with you, like your mom and I would take turns, but even before you moved down, it came down with you. And I remember you were just, you had constant things going on. It was nonstop. And I don't even think you expected that that first time.

There was a lot, there was almost too much going on. I remember losing focus easily. Like it was like, you know, there were so many kids that were like, you need to come out and do this with us, you need to come out and do this with us, you need to come out and do this with us. And it became hard to balance that social life with like, wait a minute, I still have to do what I came here to do though. And I will say I got lucky that, yeah, I think I lost my footing. Quite a few times throughout the journey, but I never lost my footing to a point where it was

irreversible. It was unfixable, you know, and I think naturally when you come and do your career when your brain is not fully developed, it's like you're just due to... My brain still isn't probably fully developed. Well, I mean, that's what I was saying. You're gonna, you have to make the part of any, I mean, that's part of the journey is like making mistakes and learning what works, you know? As long as it's not dangerous, you know? I know, I really, I stayed out of danger.

Yeah, I just think it still took courage to come down here, you know? Thank you. And see, for me, it was like courage to come down here, you know, thank you and see for me It was like it was just like it was like holy shit. Yeah, and all the other thing I was gonna say to is this is another thing That I observed is that and you can tell me your take on this But when it came to all of this it wasn't like I never felt like Money and fame was something you were. That was not the point of you with YouTube. YouTube for you was almost like,

this is not incorrect me if I'm wrong. But you saw videos or you saw things where you're like, that's cool. I want to do that. It's always been hard for me to figure out what I was even trying to do with YouTube. It was all so intuitive. It was like, I'm just like, I'm obsessed with doing this, but I don't know why. It's like with YouTube, it's not obviously creative. Does that make sense? It's not obviously creative. I did not understand like, what, why do I, like, why does this creatively fulfill me and up until recently I was kind of unsure like why is making a YouTube video creative thing and I it totally makes sense to me now I think number one it's the art of entertainment like creating something that will entertain somebody for a period

of time. That's number one. I think number two, it's sort of the art of creating something so seamless that when you're watching it, you're there. Right. Like that's the editing of it all. See, yeah, can I say something? Sure. See, here's the thing. You, and this is beautiful. Like I almost think for whatever reason, this whole thing is so intuitive to you, you can't even explain it.

But I can't, I have thought about this a lot. And so what you're trying to articulate is, I think, here's my thought, and you can tell me if I'm right. With any kind of art, and I don't care if it's music or painting or making a video or making a movie or whatever, what you're trying to do is create an alternate world or reality for a person to disappear into. And if the mechanics of that are obvious, then it breaks the spell and you're out. So if you're like listening to a song,

and all of a sudden you hear, you're like the beat is completely off, or the voice goes off, or this or that, it can be a lyric, anything to break the spell, you're out of that world. Mm-hmm. And so what you naturally had, in a video is the same thing,

you're trying to create something where the person disappears into that world and it's the world is real, but it's seen through your eyes, like the music you create, where you're, you know, down to a tenth of a second of an edit or a cut makes a difference on how the flow and the feel. Not something I noticed very early on. I was like, you know, because it's musical in a way. And I feel like that ability to where you can get lost in your edits and you go for that ride and your edits have changed as you've changed the way you present, you know, how you create your videos, but it's all still you and it seems to be very natural. But

the key thing, I think, with all good art, is it takes you disappear into it. And you don't see it. And so that's why I think a lot of times the good stuff, it almost seems like it just exists. Totally. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I could say.

Like people might say, oh, Emma, this is the I've seen your I've seen your timelines. OK. And I've seen your, I've seen your timelines. Okay. And I've seen you work and, and, and you're a gifted editor period. Thank you so much. You know, and so, like, and you keep getting better, you know, and so, I'm just going to start bringing guests on to gas me up. But that's what, hey, I mean, that's what dads are for.

Totally. I love it. But no, the reality is that's the truth. So I feel like it's clear when you're talking about these things that's what, hey, I mean, that's what dads are for. Totally, I love it. But no, the reality is that's the truth. So I feel like it's clear when you're talking about these things that you're, it is such an instinct for you. And I think the key thing is that that is so important because you almost have to get out of your own way when you're creating effectively, okay?

So like the flow state where you are creating is when you're in that moment where you're entertaining yourself almost and it starts there. It's got to be in that the best stuff comes when you're like, you're in that state where you're creating something and you're not thinking necessarily, but, oh, how's anybody going to want to like, how's this going to come off or whatever? Then you're, that's it. You're gonna lose exactly. You're gonna lose the flow. I think that's why you really have to enjoy it doing it. And I think this industry is fascinating to me because, you know, and this is not to insult anyone at all, but I think a lot of people want to be, they want the end

result, which is being famous. And then they choose a creative outlet that they're like, well, this one maybe is my favorite. So I'm going to try to do this. The unfortunate thing about it is that I really don't think it can be forced. And I, when it, yeah, no, I mean, I was going to say, because that's such a good point. And the point I wanna make about that is you're right. There are a couple of options. What I've noticed is there's the flow state where something comes from, something authentic

and it has vulnerability, it has uniqueness that is as unique as you are as a person. When you're channeling that part, but I've noticed with any kind of art, music, et cetera, there is another way that's easier psychologically. Well, I'll just say this style and technique. Yeah. Okay. If you, like so, you can,

there are so many tools we have now, and even, I mean, you can rely on fluff. Yes. It's like, it's like all style and those subsets. Yes, exactly. I mean, that's really what, yeah. Exactly. And I'm almost the other way. Like, the stuff I like is almost the opposite where the substance is good and the style

and the other stuff is played way down. You know, that's kind of why, when it comes to like everything I do, I would say across the board, I am really die hard about using the bare minimum equipment, having like the lowest quality, well, the setup that we're using right now for the podcast is gorgeous and nice But when I'm at home, it's much more basic. Yeah, but it's not too fancy

And I think there's two reasons for that number one because it's just easier. You can waste so much time making sure you're Super fancy cameras all charged up in and focus. It's like, no, fuck that. Like, let's just use the easiest equipment possible so that we can just go. Like, let's just go. That's number one. So it's just like for ease,

because then you can be much more spontaneous and whatever. But then I also think, you know, being able to make something that is good and effective in my eyes with Non-fancy equipment it like forces me to Create the substance does that make sense? Yeah, I'm not I'm not getting lost in the sauce trying to make it look Right, you know super crisp super perfect super. Because your reality is nobody cares. It makes no difference.

It really doesn't. That's just fascinating. If I used to say, okay, and I've been thinking about that a lot lately, like I like the idea of writing a song and recording it on my phone. If it doesn't work like that, then it's not working. And so, because I said, you know, I was like, if you put Paul McCartney or Elvis Presley

in front of your phone and they sang a song, or anyway, if it's good, it's good. And so, I think that one of the challenges we have now is to like technologically speaking, we have so much. And so I even do this with painting. I've cut down my colors to like minimum colors. I'll paint a painting with one brush only. One of the things that can happen to us nowadays

is that like you say, we can get lost in the sauce or we can get distracted by things that we may think are important or necessary and they're not. But I had another question I wanted to ask you regarding the pressure to stay in that state or the flow creative state where you're making something for yourself and it does happen easily like say in a video, like making something.

When you have so many people, you know that so many people are gonna watch that video. And so trying to get into a place where that doesn't get into your head So many people you know that so many people are going to watch that video and so Trying to get into a place where that doesn't get into your head while you're making videos And I know obviously we've talked about this and there's times where it does or it's hard to but what have you found? that's been helpful to to To maintain that flow state in creating

Even though there's you know that you have such a big audience. I feel like a level of like detachment, you know? Almost a level of denial. Like, I think I've tricked myself into... Kind of forgetting that part. Like I've unintentionally, so I can't really explain how I did it, but when I'm making the video, I am sort of making it for me. It's so much work to make the video, which sounds ridiculous. I'm so embarrassed. Well, it's not it's not it's work if you're not doing it. If you do any for yourself,

no, no, no, no, let me let me actually let me elaborate. It's just so time consuming, right? Listen, there's many more time consuming things on this planet, but you know, my videos take 20 hours to edit, right? You won't make it through. You won't finish editing unless you're doing it for you. Because it's a very tedious project, you know? It's like, I can't even finish it if I'm not doing it for me. So that explains the, I don't know, probably 50 videos that have never gone out because it's just like I couldn't,

I was in my, I wasn't in flow with it. Yeah, what is it? I can't finish it if I don't get into that. And I can only get into the flow if I'm making it for me. Like I'm like, this is for me. I am excited, I'm like so excited for the end result that I, you know, I need to keep going, whatever.

And that seems like that's what brought you back, you know, to recently was that just needing to return to that creative outlet that was made you happy. Well, I think the reason why I was off of it for so long was not because editing the video wasn't getting me into flow state because I definitely think I was actually able to get there. It wasn't the editing that was a problem for a long time, but rather, I didn't want to

be on camera. And so that was the challenge. If I were to have been given a video of somebody else to edit, and I was excited about that video, I would have been able to get into the flow state and be excited about it. It was like, I don't wanna be on camera. I don't wanna look at myself.

I can't, I don't wanna talk on camera. I can't, and those are two separate things. Like that's what's interesting about it. It's like, there are two key variables when it comes to making a video. It's like there are two key variables when it comes to making a video. It's like number one, I need to be in a space where my energy is just good. My energy just needs to be good.

And I need to have things that I wanna say. And I need to be in energy that somebody wants to be around. But then also, I need to be an energy that somebody wants to be around, but then also I need to be making a video that I'm excited to edit. So it's those two variables. And I found that now I'm excited about making videos because it has nothing to do with money, you know, I'm not doing brand deals anymore on my YouTube. My YouTube is now my playground completely. I've removed all industry from it completely. You know, there are moments when it's like, I work with Levi's. I'm wearing a pair of Levi's in this video anyway, right? Let's shove it.

Let's throw it in. But it's like I, the industry is completely removed from it. Yeah. For me. And that's, you know, that's an absolute privilege. Like I am so grateful that I'm able to do that, you know, from a financial standpoint. Now we're, you know, I don't have to make money

from YouTube anymore. So now, it can just be a great idea. That just can be fun. Yeah. It's just, it's back to being my little playground. And I really think that's what's so wild about it is it's like, I YouTube became my job and inevitably that challenge my relationship with YouTube.

And I struggled with it up until now, where it's just fun now. Does that make sense? I don't think I ever was, I don't know if I can ever have that as a job and still enjoy it as a hobby. But also did you feel, did you feel, this is something that I felt when I was younger,

that if I let go, like any of the creative things that I was doing, if I had to hold on to them, like if I took a break, I felt like I'd lose it. So I was always nervous during breaks. For sure. And what I've found is I've gotten older is that breaks are essential because if you're not growing as a human being, your art isn't going to grow. You have nothing to pull from.

No, so you go, like, so I find that the best way creatively for me is to do a push when I'm feeling it, you know, when I'm like, all right, it's, I'm ready. Do a big push and then take a break and do, you know, and not feel bad about it and not feel, and I know when I hit that wall, when I'm like, okay, I'm done, I can't, it starts taking a toll on me emotionally, or whatever I've been, and I just feel like, okay, I'm ready, but the thing that in the past is,

I felt like I couldn't let it go, like if I did, if I stopped, then I'd actually lose what I had. And the reality is every time I came back after a break, even with some like painting, I, there was times where I just for whatever reason I was working on music and I didn't paint for two months and I come back. You're better. You're grown and doing other things and engaging in other things. I mean, it's ridiculous, but all of those have helped.

When I first started surfing, I didn't do anything else for like months. No music, no. And even that changed my approach to music and art. It's all of its interlinked. If you're just doing your art over and up, you're gonna run out. Like you need life.

You need it, life to bring into what you do. And I, but the point is, is that living life gives you, it fuels your creativity. Well, that's why I think, you know, the ultimate goal when you're in a creative industry at all is like, get to a point, you know, where you can set things up from the get go to a point where you have space. You need to give yourself space. And that was the thing that was so challenging about, well, I mean, I've been on some sort

of weekly calendar since I started, whether it was with YouTube or it's with podcasts, you know, and yeah, I mean, it's definitely, it's challenging. And I think now I'm at a point where I know how to create space so that I can go live, you know, but it can be really easy to sort of just get on a hamster reel and not be able to get off. And then, you know, but you end up running yourself into the ground and you have absolutely, but you also stunt your growth. Oh, yeah. And also the other thing I was going to say is during those breaks where you are getting that fulfillment, that's also like the way I look

at it, that's input mode right there. That's when I'm listening to tons of music and or looking at a bunch of art and it's like priming the pump and also living, you know, whatever, whatever I'm doing, whether it's hanging with friends or whatever. I mean, for me, I kind of ping pong between these different things, but yeah, those breaks away from it are like input mode and that that's really my input mode is so different. Is it? I feel like my input mode is like okay a few things. Number one being very social. Who's dating who? Who's fighting with who? Who's going out tonight? Like being a

normal 22-year-old who just is fucking in this drama. And in the thick of it. Yeah. It's like that gives me so much to talk about. That gives me so much to talk about. That gives me, but I mean, it's also just fulfilling, weirdly enough. Yeah, I don't know, but that's sort of my inspiration. I think you touched on another really key thing that that for me for a while was like it was I kind of neglected and now it's the most important thing being social people people whether it's your family or whatever but friends having

having good friends. I know is I couldn't even and that's something I learned when I first started painting full-time I was just by myself. And I kind of, when I'd work, when I was working as a career, I saw a ton of people. And then when I was, you know, when I was doing construction, same, there's this constant interaction. And that was almost enough for me. But then when I went to full-time painting, it was not good. Because I didn't have any Interact so it took several years, but now I Realized people is the most important thing

Having good relationships with friends who are and you got to choose your friends carefully like because if you're a creative person Well, not even just your friends. It's it's fucking everyone. It's it's who it's friends. Yeah. It's who you work with. It's who you date. It's all of it. Yeah. Because I do think yeah, you don't want to be around. I want to be around people that are excited about, you know, just the reason you came here to LA like if you're around other people that are like, let's go for it. Let's do this or whatever. That's what you wanna be around. And sadly, there are people that are not in that space,

you know, and you have to be careful around that. Well, you know, you know that I've, like, I know. You can't get into any sort of flow state when you're around somebody who's just shutting down that energy, like getting into any sort of creative flow state requires this sort of free flowing sense of your personality out into the outside world. Like you need to just be able to let yourself be.

And when somebody's around you and they just dull that, and I mean, you've seen this happen to me from my career where there's a bad apple. And I'm, I can't fucking do anything. But I, but I'm out of a job. Well, what I would say one thing I have noticed that I've actually learned from you this way is that, and again, you run on instinct, but like if you sense that, they're out. I have been out. Whereas are. They are out. Whereas me, I would be more polite

and I would let that mess me up, you know? Yeah, but you know I've let it mess me up. No, I know, but you are better about that person, no. And so I've gotten way better about that. And part of it is just that I have for whatever reason, I think when you're putting out a positive, you know, thing or whatever if your vibe is positive, you start, you just attract other people like that as well. And so I can easily make that choice. I'm just not going to hang out with

somebody who has that sort of oppressive, you know, because it is so detrimental to if you're a person who a big part of their joy is the excitement about making things and creating things if you have to be careful not to be around somebody who's gonna dampen that because you're gonna it's gonna bum you out so But I mean it goes for even people who aren't creative and oftentimes and oftentimes though the trick is that Sometimes it's just a feeling like I just don't feel good is that sometimes it's just a feeling, like I just don't feel good after I am around this person or something. And then you, and a lot of times you'll, you'll even question yourself and you'll be like,

is it me or whatever? And then that's why it's helpful to have a friend who's like, no, it's not you. No, that's what you do for me. Yeah, well, it's like, it's so, it's a tricky thing because if you're brought down If you're criticized you you might buy into that mindset. I'm like, no, that is not reality That's their reality. That is not what we're after. Well, it is fascinating how you start to see

Reality through like I realized this more recently how the people that you're around, you see things through their lens. Like when you're alone, that is when you're seeing things truly through your own lens. There's no bias. There's no, you like something because you like something. When I listen to a song alone, it's a completely different experience to listening to a song with somebody else. Like today I showed you a song,

and I was like, this shit is so fucking good and I showed it to you. And I was like, oh my God, wait, this is actually kind of bad. Like I didn't, because I started my listen to it. I was just saying, through your, I was listening to it through your ear.

I felt, or no, you were listening through what you thought maybe my ear would be. Sure. Sure. But that's the thing is be cut. And I'm saying. To be around people. When you share something with somebody, you're like, oh, wait, I know, because you're second guessing. That's right. But more than that, it's also that being around somebody else, you're seeing things through their lens. And maybe some people don't do that. Like that might just be a personal thing to me or a personality

trait I have. But like when I'm with somebody, I am then seeing the world through their eyes for the duration of the time that we're together. So like people that you're really close to have to have a really solid lens that they're viewing the world through because if not, then you'd start taking their lens with you. And then, you know, if they're, if they see things in a way that is shitty, negative, bad, then that's just that starts to become your default. It's going to, it's going to drag you down for sure. And I, I think you're exactly right.

And that's something that, that I, like I said, I've become more aware of. And I think for you is like instinct. I think it's easier for me because at the end of the day, you know, I'm happiest when my core people are good, which is, you know, that's excluding those who come and go, right? You know, you and my mom and like, you know, that's the core, you know, but even like, if me and you and my mom, in the few other little core people are there. And I'm in a really exciting, inspired, motivated place, career wise, all is good. And so if there's a bad apple, guess what happens? Now, I can't get work done, which literally, you know this. Oh, fucking freak out. Oh, fucking freak out.

I'm fucking freak out. Like, I'm like, why is it not going? Why do I have nothing to talk about? Why do I have nothing? I cannot make anything. I can't say anything. I can't do anything. Freak out.

Crisis mode. Everyone baddened down the hatches. It's like a nightmare. But then as a result of that, now I'm bringing that terrible energy to the core people. You and my mom and Ali and all the core people suffer. Now, because I'm a mess.

And so then my relationship with you suffers. And then now I have nothing. My relationship is suffering with my core people because I'm a mess. My work is suffering. All core people because I'm a mess. My work is suffering. All because of that one bad apple. Isn't it interesting? It's crazy.

It's crazy. Interesting how that one little ripple can have this effect. That's very, yeah, that's very perceptible. I haven't even thought of it in that terms. I just think that. That's why it's so easy for me to be like, holy shit. Yeah, I have no, no, it's like,

but for me it's life or death because I need those foundational pieces of my life to be intact. And so if that, I'm so hyper aware of, but see, there's been moments in my past where there's been a bad apple. And I know that this apple is bad, but I let it fucking go for too long because I'm like, I don't want to let go of this of this person like, you know, and And in my god have we paid the price for that. That's why it's so important in every type of relationship Right across the board platonic romantic business. It doesn't matter all relationships

kind of need To be taken slow. Like you have to take every type of relationship slow and it's so hard to do that because in every type of relationship again, you can be like, oh my God, we just click and you can start skipping steps. This happens in friendships too.

I mean, I know that most people are probably thinking of romantic relationships but I'm actually thinking about friendships as well. Like you meet a, you know, a fun person at a bar and you're like, oh my God, we just click. We're like bestie vibes, whatever. And you're like, okay, we're gonna like go on a trip together.

We're gonna go on a girls trip. And it's like, no, you don't know that person well enough. It's in the problem with that is that's when you get yourself into a relationship where you find out later that they're enough. It's, and the problem with that is that's when you get yourself into a relationship where you find out later that they're so, so bad for you, but you got, you, you skipped steps. And now you're so far ahead that you can't then pull back and create that distance that's safe. It's too late.

That sounds like almost something like you're going into a friendship or a relationship, but sort of a set of preconceived ideas of who the person is. As opposed to letting it evolve naturally in a way where you're seeing them really for who they are. So that it is hard because I think, yeah, I think it's tough to do, you know? Especially I think, I do think especially in romantic relationships. People start creating all kinds of scenarios about who that person is and nobody's perfect, nobody's perfect, right?

How many times have you told her everything that I'm saying? That's like the three month thing is just, you know, just be friends with somebody for like three months. Most of them might make three weeks and you're like, oh God, thank God, I dodged that. It's so true. And then, but some, if you're getting up to three months and you're still like,

you so like them. This person is really cool, you know? Then you're on to something. Yeah. So then push it another three months. My dad's a big fan of like dying. What's the rush? What is the freaking rush?

Like that's, I honestly feel like, that's the magic time. It is the most. It's so wonderful. Like, it's so cool. Like, and, I don't know. So I just think, I think there is no rush in it and allow somebody to be who they are.

And you, it'll, and they'll, because like everybody, it will come out come out right and it's kind of Interesting to see how soon that comes out how long can they keep up the Shreya? No, you know, it's so crazy as I'm just thinking about Because we and we all do it in my oh totally, but I'm just thinking about all the times in my life When I've come to you and been like I am Obsessed like with like a guy, you've seen that, like moral the story is I'm like mortified thinking

about through your lens. How often I'm like, no, wait a minute, this is the one. No, wait, hold on, this one. Wait a minute, back it up, that one out, this one in. Like, it's like, I don't, no, because I don't, I don't see it that way. Like, I but I know I don't know because I don't I don't see it that way like I don't I don't look and go oh she's so cringe but if I did that oh my god how did I raise such a cringy daughter he is the worst but no but no it's more just like it's more that's just normal especially when you're younger younger, it's really normal.

It comes with experience where you're like, okay, I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that.

I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that.

I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. I got to rush into that. move fast to secure this thing. Whatever that is. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think what the rush comes from a lot of time, it, or a lot of times the rush is, I have a void in me and this is going to solve my problem. Mm.

That's true. You know what I mean? And so you're like, and then that's when the wheel starts spinning and you're, you know, creating this, this illusion. If you're in a state of,'s when the wheels start spinning and you're creating this illusion. If you're in a state of kind of satisfaction and happiness, I think then you can look almost everything around you with no expectations and you see things more clearly and you make better decisions. So I think the moral of that story is, if know, if you're, if you find a way to be

fulfilled and happy personally, then you're not going to be looking for whether it's, you know, business opportunities or this or, or a relationship or this or that to solve that problem and you're end up rushing in and making that decision. Is the ultimate challenge in life for me to that state? For sure. And to be honest, you're one of the only people I've ever met in my entire life, who have successfully done that. Yeah, but I mean, it's just, if it's not happening by this age, I mean, it's a lot of years of doing exactly that

and learning from the process, you know, of having that experience and saying, oh, you know, I need to slow down and just understand that a lot of the decisions I made were to fill some kind of... Well, that's what I'm saying. I don't think you do anything to fill voids anymore. And I think part of that is, you know, part of it is, is the lack of expectation of anything anymore.

And I think part of that comes with being a dad. Like that was huge. So like having a child and I do feel honestly like, I don't need to do anything else, you know. I take up a lot of your time calling you, scream crying about something. Not so much lately. I know, I'm kind of good right now. I'm just trying to, we're in the, when do you think it got really good recently?

I would say, because it was pretty dark for a minute for me. Yeah, but I would say overall, I'd say overall since the beginning of the whole, this whole adventure or whatever. Wait, what whole journey, like my career? Yeah, like I think, Oh, God, I think that's the best.

Well, I know, I know, but what I'm saying is is that I've noticed this gradual progression where it's gotten better and better and better. But I'd say like where it's gotten better and better and better. But I'd say like where where it's been really good. I don't know. Last few months have been fire. Yeah, last but but also I'd say like the last even the last You know the last couple years have been better and then now it's it just continuing to get better and better is what I'm seeing

You know, there was a time there was like hard it was tough, you know, it was difficult, right? Cause and but now that you're solving. Because it was what? I didn't, you know, part of it was learning about this whole situation. And like I was about to say, what I was gonna say is, where do you get the information? How do you do this?

And now realize you have to just trust your heart through this whole process and then talking to your mom and same thing. I felt like in a way, you're just sort of alone in this, but I feel like both of us have kind of gotten to all of us. All three of us have sort of come back to just being normal people. You know, it just feels just very normal now. I know. I feel like I'm not calling you as much with, um, no, it's more to share. Can I be honest? I actually think I've really figured out how to self, self, sooth, like I have figured out how I can, I don't know, like all of the unfortunate feelings are now familiar. And so I can, I know what they feel like,

I know that they're gonna go away. I also have various little mantras that I will, that I have stored in the back of my head for when a thought comes up. Like when I'm getting really anxious about, little mantras that I will, that I have stored in the back of my head for when a thought comes up. Like when I'm getting really anxious about, you know, like, I feel overexposed and stuff, for example, like I feel so exposed. Yeah.

But I think the hardest thing for me is like just being, it's just that I think this job, you know, exacerbates various mental various mental health issues I already had. Like, being an anxious and depressed person, I think it just, it can, mainly with anxiety for me, though, it just really, it really sends me. And that's, but again, those things I'm figuring out how to... But I think we're all challenged by those things myself included. I don't think anybody is not,

there's a whole new set of challenges that we have today. So even if you're not in the industry, you're still wrestling with this digital reality that we're dealing with. Absolutely. I think that I have like, that's more like the root of mine at times can be more challenging to

express, I think, because they're just very unusual. But I think that the feeling is ultimately the same. And again, but we both are so in support of the internet as well, where it's like, we, you know, it can enhance life, absolutely. Oh, yeah, I mean, I think if you're a creative person, it's awesome. It's just trying to figure out. Well, it's about consuming the right stuff when you are online and also making sure that you have a life outside of it as well. And it's tough. It's tough.

And but I agree that that is important. It's an important distinction that you made, which is that I do still like I'm so thankful that as a creative person, you know, being able to have, you know, YouTube and Patreon and Instagram as an artist, it's essential, it's super helpful. But it's just, it is this thing where I have to constantly remind myself not to get too sucked into it and to appreciate the three-dimensional. I think that's why it's so important to have a goal

to create something that has an positive impact in one way or another. Like that's why that's crucial. It's because it's like, you don't want to build a career online in a way that is adding to the junk pile. You know what I'm saying? Which is easy to do and can actually be quite fruitful.

Right, I mean, it's a valuable thing just to create a little quiet place somewhere for people to visit. Sometimes that's enough. That is enough. Hopefully, we created little quiet place somewhere for people to visit. Sometimes that's enough. That is enough. Hopefully we created a quiet place for the listeners today. I doubt it. I don't think it was very quiet.

I think we're good. Do you feel like we, we, Yeah, I love it. I hope I delivered. I think you definitely. I know you.