anything goes with emma chamberlain - is marriage outdated? [video]

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

[video available on Spotify] today i'm going to be talking about a topic that is not a hot topic: marriage. when my parents were growing up, marriage was this sort of fundamental part of being a human. and recent statistics are showing that millennials and gen z are apparently not loving the idea of getting married. when i was younger i really didn't know if i wanted to get married and have kids. part of it could have been that my parents were divorced. but I think a big part of why i had that belief was out of this desire to rebel against the norm. it's fascinating to me that something so foundational like marriage is being so heavily questioned. it's making me wonder whether or not the questioning is rational, or if it's just kind of an act of rebellion against society. because when we're told to do something, sometimes we freak out and decide to rebel against it. so i guess i just want to investigate all of it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I'm going to be talking about a topic that is not a hot topic, marriage. Marriage is not the hot topic that it used to be. When my parents were growing up and when their parents were growing up, marriage was this sort of fundamental part of being a human, at least based on their stories, of their experiences. You know, it was the norm that you would go to school, get a job, get married, have kids, grow old, die, that's it, right? And there was a lot less questioning going on

in generations past. There was a lot more going with the flow. It sounds like. And recent statistics are showing that people are not getting married anymore. People are not just going with the flow anymore. My generation, especially in the generation above me, so millennials and Gen Z are apparently not loving the idea of getting married. And I've sort of heard this discourse online within my generation about marriage being outdated

and marriage being kind of a scam and marriage being a waste of time and marriage being destined for failure. And it's interesting because actually, when I was growing up, I kind of agreed. I was never sure if I was going to get married. And I actually have divorced parents, which probably played a role in that a little bit, just experiencing that divorce.

Who knows if that altered my perspective on marriage, made me not want to get married as a kid. I'm not going to touch on my perspective in the current made me not wanna get married as a kid. I'm not gonna touch on my perspective in the current moment until the end of the episode, okay? So this is why I'm talking about myself in past tense. When I was younger, I really didn't know if I wanted to get married and have kids. I remember saying that I wasn't going to.

And when I look back at why I felt that way, yes, part of it could have been that my parents were divorced, but I'm not sure. I think a big part of why I had that belief was out of this desire to rebel against the norm more than anything. But all this to say, I have felt that way before where I didn't want to participate in marriage. I wasn't sure if I wanted to have a family, you know? Being somebody who's felt this myself and being somebody who's always sort of checking in on what everyone in my generation is saying out of curiosity, it's fascinating to me that something that's so foundational in our life, like marriage, is being so heavily questioned. And it's making me wonder why,

and whether or not the questioning is rational or not, or if it's just kind of an act of rebellion against society in a way, because when we're told to do something, sometimes we freak out and decide to rebel against it. So I guess I just want to investigate all of it. But to start, a little bit of history on marriage, it's an old concept.

I assumed, for some reason, that marriage was relatively new. Like it seemed to me like something that would have been a modern creation, but in fact, it's much older than I thought. According to my sources, it's widely agreed that the origin of marriage dates well before recorded history, but the earliest recorded evidence of marriage ceremonies,

dates from about 2,350 BC. So marriage is an old concept. And whenever something is an old concept and it's stood the test of time, I tend to, I don't know, be maybe a little bit more open-minded to it in a way, because when something's stood the test of time, I become even more fascinated by it, because it's a sign that it's serving a purpose. Now, whether or not that purpose serves us now is another story. But there's something to be said

for something remaining necessary for thousands of years. We see two types of situations over the course of history, things that remain consistent over history, and then things that sort of come and go. And it seems marriage is one of those things that has just stood the test of time for as long as we can remember. And it's similar to religion. Religion has also stood the test of time.

And I made a whole episode about that if you want to go listen. But I'm always a little bit more open-minded, I guess, when something has stood the test of time and doesn't have an obvious bad impact. You know, like from the service level, marriage doesn't look like it has a bad impact, right? And it's stood the test of time. Obviously, when you look in deeper at marriage, there are some elements of marriage that could possibly be harmful, right? You know, like some people have had terrible experiences with, say, arranged marriages.

It's not that there's no harm possible, right? But it's not something that's clearly bad or wrong. The concept, I guess. Marriage is also something that's clearly bad or wrong. The concept, I guess. Marriage is also something that has actually been heavily tied to religion as a lot of religions have a very strong opinion on marriage. A lot of them saying that it is incredibly necessary. For example, in the Old Testament,

there is a writing that states, therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave onto his wife, and they shall be one flesh. So this is an example of how a religious text describes marriage as an important part of a person's life. Now, I'm not religious, and I'm not saying that that statement is true or that I'm living by that statement, by any means, but I'm just giving an example of how this is present

in religion. And there's a lot of religions that really heavily push marriage or maybe don't push, but they recommend marriage, right? And they believe in marriage. And a lot of people over the course of history have gotten married out of some sort of religious desire. But by nature, marriage is not a religious act, you know? But I just thought I would include that there is

some religious desire there for people who are religious, which is interesting. Okay, so what does marriage look like today? Because it's definitely looked different over the course of history. I mean, in general, it's kind of looked the same. It's been a sort of ceremonial situation. It's been the union of two people. Yes, it's always been sort of the same idea, but what does marriage look like today? Well, I think the first and most important element of getting married today, especially in the US.

I don't know about how marriage works in other countries, but in the US, you have to get a marriage license in order to be legally married. And I used to think that being legally married didn't really mean anything. Like I didn't really understand what that meant, but after doing research today, I found out kind of what getting legally married means.

Being legally married gives you the right to your spouses, social security, Medicare, and even disability benefits. So it gives you the control of almost a family member in a lot of ways. It pits you in a position to make major medical decisions on behalf of your spouse. If your partner had children prior to you getting married, you could also legally file for the official role of step parent or even adoption. You can sign for lease renewals on behalf of your spouse and should they die, you are able to consent to after-death procedures and also make final burial plans. You are also able to get access to their workers'

compensation or retirement funds as well. And you do also get tax benefits from being married. So it's a lot of adult stuff, right? Like, oh cool. You know, like if I die, my spouse can take care of the stuff that maybe my family would have had to take care of. But maybe if you don't have family who would take care of it, maybe your spouse is that person, to me, I feel like getting married is like legally adding someone to your family. It almost feels like now you are legally considered family, whereas before, you're not. And that adds some weight and gravity to marriage that I didn't really understand

prior to today. You know, fully, like I knew that all of that was a part of it, but I hadn't really dug into it. And there's something to be said for that, you know? Obviously, if you're someone who decides to start a family, have kids and stuff like that. Your significant other, your spouse becomes your family in a way because you're starting a new family. And I think it would be a challenge possibly to not be legally married if you start a family because your spouse wouldn't have certain rights that would be helpful and possibly crucial in some situations.

And then also there are tax benefits which, you know, could be really helpful for some people in some situations. So I find that interesting. I am curious about why the government rewards marriage. I would need to dig deeper into that, but it seems you do get a reward in a way for being married tax-wise, which I think is interesting. I don't understand that exactly. So that's what marriage looks like legally today. Now more on the surface level, getting married today is all about the fancy engagement in the ceremony. Now, I'm not saying that everyone does this because number one, it's fucking expensive to do that and not everyone can afford that.

The amount of money it costs to have a wedding is ridiculous. And there's a huge emphasis on this massive diamond ring, which again, not everybody experiences because number one, it's a little bit ridiculous. But number two, it's just not realistic for some people. If you were to look up photos of a wedding on Pinterest, you're gonna see a photo of somebody with a big ring and this beautiful venue with a beautiful, expensive dress and it's very whimsical and beautiful

and it clearly expensive. And that's sort of the stereotypical wedding of today. You know, it's all about this beautiful day, or for some people multiple days, depending on what type of wedding we're talking about. But there's this huge emphasis on what the wedding looks like. I think social media probably plays a role in this. You know, we're living in the time of online competitiveness, right? Everybody's trying to go on the coolest vacations, have the coolest outfits, have the best lives, look the best all on social media. And I think weddings have started to tie themselves into that

experience, you know, people hire photographers and videographers for their wedding so that they can post things on social media. You know, a lot of it in a way feels kind of performative at times, right? On one hand, it's like, yeah, I understand wanting to create a beautiful day for yourself and your family and your significant other. And I totally understand wanting it to feel special and magical. But at the same time, do you really need like a photographer and a videographer? But then at the same time, you could argue like,

well, how are you supposed to remember the moment and fair enough to that as well? I think that there's a combination. You know, I think there's some people who want to document the memory and then there are some people who kind of want to brag about it on social media. I think that there's a little bit of both.

I mean, if I were to have a wedding, I don't know if I would hire a photographer to be honest. Personally, I don't know. To be honest, I probably would. Somebody would convince me. They'd be like, Emma, how are you going to remember it? You know, so then I probably would hire one. But weddings of today are very grandiose.

The wedding industry is a huge industry. And people spend a lot of money, a ridiculous amount of money, whether it's on the engagement ring or it's on the wedding ceremony itself or it's on the wedding dress or whatever. Like people are dropping thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars on their wedding. And it's not like a little cute innocent ceremony. That's not what we see on social media. Okay, weddings are a big deal for the people who take them seriously. I want to sort of zoom in on the diamond ring of it all because I found out today that the concept of a diamond ring is it all. Because I found out today that the concept of a diamond ring

is a new concept, new meaning within the last 100 or so years. But I found online that while engagement rings have been around since ancient Rome, it was only after De Beers advertising campaign in the late 1930s that diamond engagement rings became a traditional symbol of commitment to Mary. So the whole diamond ring of it all is sort of a corporate money making scheme. Listen, this isn't the first time that we've bought into that.

We do that a lot as people. We love it. People spend a lot of money on the on the wedding ring, which is kind of crazy to me. I mean, I understand it because it's this valuable, you know, well, what does valuable mean? Like, I think things can be valuable that are worth nothing. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you have a fucking piece of belly button link in a jar on your nightstand because it was like, I don't know, it was like some famous person of belly button link in a jar on your nightstand because it was like, I don't know, it was like some famous person's belly button link that you're a fan of or something.

I'm not saying I do this, okay, but I'm saying like, I don't know, like value, something having value, like things can have value in so many different ways. They can have value in the sense that they're worth a lot of money, they can have value in the sense that they have sentimental value, or they're, you know or your favorite celebrity's, Well, you went in the line in a jar and your nightstand, like you go and I'm saying, I can see how in a way, your significant other buying you an expensive,

valuable in the sense of money, ring can show a level of commitment to you. It's like, I'm willing to buy you this extremely expensive piece of jewelry to show you how committed I am to you. I understand that, but I also think that's, I don't know, I'm not obsessed with the concept. Personally, I get the concept, but I'm not obsessed with the concept because, you know, that's sort of insinuating that somebody who maybe can't afford a diamond ring isn't committed enough to you Because they can't afford it. It's like what if somebody can't afford a diamond ring

And so then they now can't participate in that display of affection, which I don't like love I think that's just kind of lame But then again, who am I to judges the people who do want to buy a big diamond ring for their loved one like I don't know But diamond rings are a huge part of like I don't know, but diamond rings are a huge part of the wedding experience of today, you know. So the last big piece of marriage today is the likelihood for divorce. Researchers estimate that 40 to 50% of all first marriages will end in divorce or permanent separation. And about 60% to 65% of second marriages will end in divorce.

Although divorce has always been a part of American society, divorce has become more common in the last 50 years. So divorce nowadays is very common. So I think people have that in mind nowadays when they're getting married because these statistics are not hard to find, right? I've been hearing the statistic that 50% of all marriages end in divorce since I was five years old and my parents got divorced, okay? So this is very common. And I think another interesting part of it

is a lot of the people who are considering whether or not they wanna get married today, which is kind of my generation, Gen Z, and then the generation above me, millennials, you know, a lot of this generation has lived through divorce. And so I think there's this sort of hatred towards marriage because so many kids in these generations have lived through a divorce. And for some, it was traumatic.

I'm very fortunate that my parents' divorce was probably the best experience I could have had. You know, it wasn't messy, it was very clean. And to this day, they're friends and I'm so incredibly grateful for that. But, you know, there are a lot of people who have not had that experience. Understandably, so they have this sort of disbelief in marriage. They can't believe that it could be possibly good, because most divorces end in a very messy way. Breakups aren't pretty, and a divorce is even less pretty, right?

So, moving on, why are people not getting married today? What is the sort of logic behind this rejection of marriage? I think the first and largest cause for people not getting married is, I think a lot of people feel like it's a waste of time and money. You know, the idea of having to go to the courthouse and fill out all these documents and, you know, legally bind yourself to somebody else, I don't think people want to do that. I think a lot of people don't understand why there's a legal side to marriage. Like, I didn't really before, I kind of knew I kind of understood, but not really, not as deeply as I should considering I'm approaching the age in the next 10 years

where I want to get married. You know, I was lacking a lot of information about what it meant to be legally married. I think a lot of young people are the same way. And so, you know, they look at the legal side of it and they're like, that's just a waste of fucking time and it's just too complicated. And like, we're probably going to end up getting divorced anyway. So then we're going to have to go through the law to break up and what a absolute bummer that would be. So that's all a waste of time.

And then the wedding ceremony is a waste of money because in order for the wedding ceremony to mean anything, it's like you have to make it picture perfect and you have to invite all these people and it has to be this big thing. And so I think a lot of people are like, I don't really get the point. And I think a lot of people feel this way when they look at marriage from a surface level, right?

They're like, this just seems like too much. And for what? Like we could just continue to be a couple without all of this drama, right? And I understand that perspective. But I do think that this perspective sort of ignores the fact that the ceremony of it all is optional. You know, having a big wedding is optional.

And I think it sort of undermines what it means to get married legally. But other than that, I do see this perspective. The other reason why people aren't getting married today is because dating looks very different for young people right now. You know, it's kind of become a nightmare. We're much less likely to meet people

in organic human ways these days. We're meeting a lot of people online. Everybody's using dating apps. And it's become so much easier to sort of look at dating almost like a game in a way, you know, like using dating apps and stuff like that. Listen, I totally get it. I'm not judging people who use dating apps because I think at times it's kind of necessary in order to meet people, but at the same time there are flaws, you know, to the situation. There are people who use it sort of like a game in a way. And they're not necessarily using it for long-term relationships, which by the way, people can do whatever the fuck they want. So there's nothing wrong with that. But my point is, is that the nature of dating apps and dating online, it's more of a hookup

culture sort of situation, right? It's not as much focused on creating long-term relationships that could possibly lead to marriage, you know, or to creating a family. You see a lot of people on dating apps saying like, not looking for something serious, like just looking for something fun, which by the way, again, not judging anybody for that. There's nothing wrong with wanting to do that. Like, it's none of my fucking business. What other people do, right?

But at the same time, for people who maybe are excited about starting a family one day and having a committed relationship long-term, it's really hard to know where to look these days because on dating apps and stuff, that's not really the energy that's there, right? And according to statistics, dating is not very successful right now. Successful dating is becoming rare. And obviously that's going to result in less people getting married because if they're not able to find long-term partners, how are they going to get married? This is not to say that successful dating doesn't exist because it absolutely does, but it's

just becoming less successful. Now it is. Going back to divorce, you know, a lot of people aren't getting married because they're like, divorce is too common. I already touched on this twice, so I'm not going to go too deep into it, but people aren't getting married because divorce is so common. It's like, what's the point if there's a 50-50 chance that this is going to fucking work? Why would I waste all of my energy? Why would I get the law involved when we could just remain dating, you know, in a way, remain as a couple without the law

involved? And, you know, fair enough, there is an argument for that. Absolutely. I also think a lot of people, you know, young people right now are scared to commit to a partner. I think there's just this overarching fear of commitment in the Gen Z and Millennial generations. I mean, I assume it's as a result of hook up culture because, you know, it's sort of the norm to, I don't know, just participate in a lot of casual hookups and not really commit. And I think now that that's such a normal part of how we date, I think people maybe are used to being kind of free in a way, being able to have sex with whoever they want, hang

out with whoever they want, not be tied down to one person. And I think when you become used to that feeling of freedom, it can be scary to let that go by committing to one person. And saying, you know what? I am going to sacrifice that freedom for a meaningful relationship with one person. I think that's frightening for a lot of people, especially the people who have been participating in hookup culture for however many years, they're the ones that are like, oh my god, I can't commit because I have to let this go and I have so much fun with casual hookups, I can't let this go. And you know, fair enough, like I understand that when you become used to a certain lifestyle,

it's scary to let it go. And you might not even trust yourself in some ways. You might think, well, I don't know if I can be committed to somebody, right? Like I don't know if I even can because my brain doesn't function like that, right? For me personally, I never had an issue with commitment because I never really enjoyed casual hookup culture.

It just didn't work for me psychologically. I just really didn casual hookup culture. It just didn't work for me psychologically. I just really didn't enjoy it. And it ended up causing me a lot more psychological harm than good. And this is just a personal experience for me. I just personally am more of a relationship type of person. And I like feeling super familiar and safe and comfortable with somebody.

And I don't really get a sort of excitement from being with somebody to sort of a stranger to me. I also, I don't really see a point. Like for me personally, I have a hard time rationalizing hooking up with somebody without the intent of it becoming something meaningful maybe? Like, I don't mind the idea of maybe hooking up with people and then being like, eh, I was a vibe. But like, I always want to go into it with the idea that I'm open-minded

to possibly being with this person. And the times that I had participated in hook-up culture of you well, and went into it with the intent of, I'm never dug into them again after this, you know, that never made me feel good. And again, that's not to say that the people who do that are doing something wrong. That is not what I'm saying. For me though, it just really didn't make me feel good. And I was honest with myself about that. And I've just never really participated since. But commitments never scared me personally,

because I never fell into the rhythm of that sort of dating style. So commitment, to me, has always been second nature. And I can't necessarily speak from the perspective of somebody who is afraid of commitment because they've been participating in hug up culture because I haven't necessarily speak from the perspective of somebody who is afraid of commitment because they've been participating in hug up culture because I haven't experienced that. I also think less people are getting married today because a lot of people don't want to

have kids. And I've actually made a whole episode about this if you want to go check it out about, you know, why people don't want to have kids anymore. And there's a lot of reasons for that. I think a lot of people think that getting married and not having kids makes marriage sort of pointless. And I can see that perspective because being married and having kids, it makes the marriage hold more weight when you have kids

and you have a family and you start a family together. But also just being married is also in a way starting a family together, some might argue. You're bonding yourselves together and sort of creating a family unit out of the two of you on a legal level, right? In a way and so, you know, I don't think that getting married is pointless if you don't have kids. But I also can see the argument that it just holds less weight. I also think the fact that people don't want to have kids

as much these days makes the rush and the desire to get married much less. Because I think in the past, people felt this pressure to have a family, right? And it's been sort of a norm in the past that in order to have a family, right? And it's been sort of a norm in the past that in order to have a family, you must get married. And then after that, you have kids, right?

That was sort of the structure that everybody tried to follow or was being told to follow in some ways. And now that that's in question in one of the major steps of that trajectory is being rejected, which is the idea of having kids, the other step, which is getting married, just loses its weight in a way. And so people who don't want to have kids are much less likely to see the value in getting

married. And last but not least, I think a lot of people are not really interested in getting married, because a lot of people want to focus on their career. And so this idea of, you know, slowing down your life to start a family is not appealing to people these days. And I understand this because from a financial standpoint, you know, a lot of people can't afford to maybe step away from their job and to start a family. Starting a family is expensive.

From getting married to having a child, a living being in your home, another one, it's expensive. And so I think there's some people who want to focus on their career because in a way, they need to focus on their career because they can't afford to step away from it, right? And sacrifice their time to start a family. But then there's other people who maybe could afford to step away from their career, but they don't want to because I think a lot of people

are kind of obsessed with having this sort of identity of being this like successful person. Like I think it used to be celebrated to be a part of a successful family. You know, I think there was a lot more praise for that lifestyle a little while ago, you know, like 50 years ago. I think that was more celebrated. Whereas now I think the lifestyle that's celebrated is this sort of girl boss, CEO, entrepreneurial lifestyle.

And so I think the people who maybe have the money to start a family but don't want to are more excited about the idea of having a sort of entrepreneurial lifestyle and having that be their goal in life. Because I think that that lifestyle is much more celebrated. You know, I don't really see people celebrating successful family life as much anymore. It happens, there is still celebration there,

but I don't know, I've seen some judgment even actually around people starting families and I don't know, I've seen some judgment even actually around people starting families and I don't know. I don't see it all the time, but I have seen judgment around people who decide to settle down and maybe take a few years off work and rely on the other parent to sort of whatever. Like I don't know, I've seen a lot more criticism there

and it's less celebrated in general. So those are the reasons why people are not getting married today, from my perspective. But now let's discuss why people are still getting married today because there are still people getting married today, right? I think very obviously, you know, people want to get married for the benefits of being legally married. I listed all those reasons earlier, you earlier. You're legally binding yourself to your significant other so that they have certain rights that could protect

the both of you as long as they're not abused by one or the other. There's potentially tax benefits. I do think that the act of marriage is a real sign of commitment to another person. Now, obviously, nothing is ever set in stone. You can always get divorced and you can always cheat on each other and you can always fuck each other over. But in theory, marriage is a promise to another person. And it is, it's wishful thinking to think that that, it always ends up that way, right?

But I think it's also not true to say that it never ends up that way. There are marriages that bring people closer and are successful. It totally happens. So I think the people who still get married today are hopeful that they could be the better half of the 50% that stay together and commit to each other for life. And you know, they hope that they can stick to that promise that they made to one another. I also think a lot of people still get married today because, you know, they want to have a family, right?

Marriage is the first step in starting a family for a lot of people. And it's been that first step for many, many years. And it's the norm and it does serve a certain legal purpose as well. And it's not mandatory, but it's definitely not meaningless, right? So, you know, I think people who want to start a family want to get married too. Not everybody, but a lot of people. And so that's definitely a part of it. And then last but not least, I think people still get married today because as much as there's a lot of discourse about people not wanting to get married, there's also still simultaneously

a lot of pressure to get married, especially from older generations. You know, a lot of us have parents or grandparents who are bullying us into getting married because they're like, hello, this is the next step, right? Personally, I don't have that experience. I'm grateful that my family doesn't really tell me what to do at this point. But you know, I know a lot of people do have parents or grandparents who are telling them that they must get married. And there's a pressure there. On top of that, there's a societal pressure, too, because if maybe your community around

you still is excited about the idea of marriage because they're absolutely our communities out there who are still very excited about marriage, it's not everybody who is against it, right? If the community in your close vicinity, your friends, the people you work with, et cetera, are all getting married, you might get a little fomo. And you're like, well, fuck, now I want to get married, because everyone else is getting married, and I feel like an outlier here, not getting married.

So I think there is also a societal pressure to get married for some people. Okay, so now that we've sort of analyzed marriage to the best of my ability, it's time to return to the question that we asked in the beginning. Is marriage outdated? As always, the answer to this question is yes and no.

I think there are parts of marriage that are outdated, in my opinion, and there are parts of marriage that are outdated in my opinion. And there are parts of marriage that are not. And so we need to discuss. First, I'm going to start with the reasons I think marriage is not outdated. I think there are reasons that marriage still serves a purpose. For one, I know it's not a cool thing to say necessarily. And I might sound like a grandma right now,

but I do think that the symbolism of marriage does mean something to a lot of people. I think this idea of committing to one person in sickness and in health, you know what I mean? Committing to someone, putting aside your urges to be free, sexually, be able to hook up with whoever, and committing to one person to start a family with and to fully commit to. There is something beautiful about that to me. Some people might say, like, no, that's outdated.

That's an outdated concept. You know, I know there's a lot of arguments how biologically monogamy, being with one person, is not natural for humans. I've heard arguments about that before. I'm not going to make any claims because I didn't do research on it. I just have heard that before. Take it with a grain of salt, okay? But I have heard that claim before, right? That monogamy is not natural to humans. But there's also an argument for, well, maybe it isn't, but maybe there's

something powerful about having to sacrifice that to build a family with someone, you know, having to use discipline to fight against something that's biological feeling in order to commit to somebody that you wanna start a family with. I don't know. I mean, I think there's something kind of interesting there, right? Like, the fact that you might need to fight off

biological urges in order to stay committed to somebody might be exactly what makes a marriage so special. The fact that you do have to sacrifice things, but I do think that the symbolism of marriage is still powerful. I also think that the legal side of it serves a purpose. For someone like me, I'm an only child, and so I don't have siblings, right?

It does make me nervous thinking about, what happens when I'm 80 years old and my parents have passed on. It scares me to think about the fact that I could be alone. And if I don't have kids or a husband to take care of me legally, right? Because right now, my parents, they are the ones that would control what would happen to me if I were to get in an accident. But when I'm much older and I don't have my direct family anymore, I won't have that. You know, I have other family,

but my other family doesn't know me as well as my parents. And even to use like my current relationship as an example, my significant other knows me better than a majority of my extended family does. You know, even though my extended family has known me for my whole life, they have not spent as much time with me as my significant other. And I guess my point is there is something to be said for sort of legally bonding yourself to someone else for when you're older and you don't have your immediate family with you anymore, especially

for someone like me who's an only child. This is something that's on my mind. I also think that marriage inspires some couples to push through incredible challenges together that otherwise might have broken them up, but that can help them grow in some way. Now I know that there are situations where people stay in toxic marriages because it's so complicated to leave. And that is not a positive situation. And that's not a good thing, okay?

So I'm not saying that. But there are a lot of challenges that come up in relationships that are really incredible growing opportunities. But a lot of times in more casual dating situations, people just sort of break up because they're like, I don't want to deal with this challenge. I think marriage is interesting because it kind of can inspire people

to push harder to grow through the challenges of a relationship because there is such a complicated bond between them because not only isn't legal, but also it's now in a way familial. There's a chance that there's children involved. I think all of that inspires, you know, people to really rise the occasion and try to work through an issue with their significant other rather than just walking away because it's easy to do so. And that can easily turn sour and become a negative thing in a lot of scenarios, but it does have the potential to actually help both parties grow. And that can't be ignored.

And I think the last reason why marriage is not outdated is because some people really enjoy marriage. Obviously, we hear a lot of horror stories, but we also hear a lot of incredible stories about how it's taught people so many incredible lessons, and it's allowed them to sort of build a strong family, and it was a crucial part in that process, and how it was such an incredible memory when they got married, whether it involved a massive diamond ring or not. You know, a lot of people really see marriage in a positive and powerful light. You know, they see it as something that's impactful in a good way and challenging in a good way. And so in those ways, I think marriage is not outdated. But at the same time,

there are a lot of ways that I think marriage is outdated. I think number one, the marriage industry, you know, like the diamond ring industry of it all, the wedding planning companies that charge so much money and tell you you need to drop $50,000 on this wedding or else it's going to be disgusting. It's going to be disgusting. That's going to be awful. All this sort of manipulation on a commercial level is becoming obvious to us. People today are not blind to the way that we're manipulated to spend money. In the past, I think humans were a lot more susceptible to being manipulated by companies and businesses into spending money. But now we're starting to see through it.

It's becoming common knowledge how businesses take advantage of us and our feelings and our emotions. And so I think the wedding industry is starting to be seen for what it is in a way. People are not buying into the fantasy as much anymore of this perfect wedding and this expensive, massive diamond ring. People are like, wait a minute, why the fuck are we doing this? And also, why are you trying to pull up my heartstrings to make money? Like fuck you.

That's one reason why marriage is outdated is because the industry is not fooling people anymore. And people are honestly probably more rejecting the capitalist side of marriage even more than they are the concept of marriage itself at times. People are like, well, I don't want to do any of the marriage stuff because I hate how it's become this sort of money grab for all these industries. I think another sign that marriage is outdated in some ways is a sign of the divorce rate. You know, so many people are getting divorced that it's like, well, this clearly isn't working. But at the same time, what I struggle with there is that I have to wonder, what is that fault? Is the concept of marriage at fault? Is the concept of marriage

the reason why divorce is happening? Or is there a societal issue that is driving up the divorce rates and it's not the concept of marriage itself. Is it the people or is it the concept? You see what I'm saying? I don't have a conclusion, but it's something to think about. Like, I don't know. I kind of wonder if it is the people's fault that divorce rates are high. And it's not actually the concept of marriage's fault because people make the choice to get married.

Obviously, there are some scenarios where people don't make a choice. And there are arranged marriages, there are forced marriages. I'm not referring to that when I'm discussing this. I'm talking about consensual marriage where two people get married and they both wanted to and it was both of their choice and that is what I'm referring to in this scenario here with this example. People who have the ability to choose to get married choose to get married, right? There are a lot of marriages that happen just because two people wanted to get married, choose to get married, right? There are a lot of marriages that happen just because two people wanted to get married, but then it doesn't work out and they get divorced. And I guess my question is, who is to blame here?

My own parents got divorced, okay? So I'm not insulting people who get divorced. I'm not saying it's their fault that they got divorced, but also sure it is. That doesn't make either of them bad people, but in a way, it is their fault, like they chose to get married, right? You don't have to get married if you are in the scenario where you have the choice. Again, excluding situations with

arranged marriages, et cetera. I'm not speaking on that. But you get what I'm saying. Is that user error, if you will? Or is it just the concept of marriage doesn't work? And we fall victim to it because we're told that it's a part of our life trajectory and that we need to participate. And then we force ourselves to do it, and it doesn't work for us, and we get divorced, and that's society's fault.

You know, who's that fault here? I don't know, I think you could make an argument for any side there, but I did something to think about. I also think the desire for polyamorous relationships today are making marriage seem outdated. You know, monogamy has been the norm for a long time in America, especially. And it's been a little bit more taboo to participate in polyamorous relationships, which is dating multiple people at once.

That has not always been this normal sort of idea. But now there is this open-mindedness about polyamory, and there's a lot of people who are in open relationships now. I don't know about everywhere in the world, but I know in Los Angeles, for sure, New York, for sure, the big cities, there's a lot of people who are dating a bunch of people at once, but I think this new sort of focus on polyamorous relationships, dating multiple people at once, hook up culture. All of this is sort of making marriage seem outdated. And I know a lot of the argument for polyamorous relationships is that it's more true to our

biology because we're not meant to just be with one person, we're meant to repopulate in the sense of like be with as many people as we physically can in our lifetime in order to populate the planet, like on a biological level, that is our biological instinct, right? So being monogamous is against that instinct. So I think a lot of people say that marriage is outdated because this is who we're supposed to be. But whether or not that is set in stone truth is never going to be set in stone. So I guess my point there is, you know, there is an argument that biologically we're not meant to be monogamous, but I don't know if that's true. And I think the last reason marriage may be outdated is because marriage doesn't

ensure that nothing goes wrong. You know what I'm saying? Marriage doesn't ensure that someone doesn't cheat on the other. Marriage doesn't ensure that the person you're marrying isn't taking advantage of you. Marriage doesn't ensure that the person that you're marrying isn't a serial killer. It's not a perfect situation. You know, there's still room for so many errors and flaws.

And as much as it is a symbol of commitment, in some ways, it might actually make people feel trapped. And they might feel doomed in the sense that they're like, oh my god, I have to be with this person for the rest of my life. I need to go have enough fare with another person who is not my significant other because I can't handle the fact that I have to be with this person forever. It's driving me crazy. I need to go cheat. You see what I'm saying?

So it's not this sort of end all, be all active commitment. There are so many situations where people cheat, have affairs, take advantage of each other. I mean, it's insane, but it's also just a part of everything. Like, chicken go wrong in any fucking scenario. There's not one scenario where shit can't go wrong. So I think, yes, you know, there are some arguments for marriage being outdated. There are also some arguments for marriage being still necessary

and current and meaningful. Obviously, what it really comes down to is what do you want to do, right? Do you want to get married? If you do, there's nothing wrong with it. If you don't, there's nothing wrong with it. Obviously, unless you're in a situation where you don't have that freedom of choice, but if you do, then what a beautiful thing it is to make that decision yourself.

And nobody can tell you what's right and what's wrong. But I think what shouldn't be ignored necessarily is the fact that marriage is not all bad. You know, like I even coming from a family of divorced parents, like I don't think marriage is outdated completely. I think that there's still some really meaningful things there that I don't want to ignore personally. Now on a personal level, my sort of perspective in plan when it comes to marriage is that I actually do want to get married. And the reason for that is because I do think that there's something to be said for the

level of commitment that goes into a marriage. You know, I want to start a family with somebody who I know is willing to commit to me legally. Like, I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's a sign of taking shit seriously. You know, I don't wanna have a child with somebody who isn't willing to commit to me in a serious way. And vice versa. I think that symbolism does still mean something to me in a serious way. And vice versa, I think that symbolism does

still mean something to me. And so that's one really huge part about that. You know, number two, I do want to also have children and have a family. And I think sort of being legally binded to your significant other is a helpful step there in some ways. Number three, I don't care about the, you know, I don't care about the wedding ring, I don't care about the wedding ceremony. That's not really a priority for me. So when I do get married, I don't know what it's going to look like. If I do get married, I would like to, but if or when I do, I'm not really concerned about having a wedding ring. I'm not even really concerned about being engaged to in this traditional way, that's not really important

to me. You know, I think the sort of stereotypical marriage routine, right? There's an engagement with this big ring, and then there's the ceremony, and then there's all the photos that are taking like that whole stereotypical process means nothing to me. I don't give a fuck about that. So I really want to get married because I want to know that someone's committed to me, and I want to be committed to somebody else.

And I want marriage to be symbolism of a promise. And I'm excited to start a family at some point, not right now. Ooh, no, not right now. I'm also not afraid of the idea of divorce, to be honest. You know, there are legal things that you can put in place so that if you do get a divorce, everybody's safe and protected in a way, money wise,

custody wise, unless there's obviously an issue that arises, which, you know, God forbid. But I'm open to the idea of a divorce. Like, that doesn't scare me. because I watched my parents go through a divorce and find friendship in a way that was yes, miraculous and rare, but after watching them do it, I'm confident that I could do the same. And neither of my parents regret getting married. And they're a huge example for me.

You know, it taught them so much about themselves. And it was so crucial for them in a lot of ways in order to sort of take the next steps to start a family. And without them getting married and taking their relationship really seriously, I probably wouldn't be here. And so, I don't know. I just, I'm not afraid of the idea of divorce. I'm very realistic about the fact that with every marriage, there's a 50-50 chance that you will get divorced.

I don't know. It's such a rare and bizarre situation that I might be looking at divorce through rose color glasses. I think I absolutely am. It would be challenging, but I'm not afraid of it. And I think when it comes to starting a family, I really do think that marriage is a part of that for me, from a commitment standpoint and from a legal standpoint.

When I get older, if something happens to me and just having your significant other have the legal powers that they have, that is also important to me. My family is not there to help. So anyway, marriage, it's absolutely outdated in some ways, and it's absolutely not outdated in some ways in my opinion. But I'm curious to hear, I don't know, your perspective. What do you think? Send me an Instagram message at anything goes, send me a tweet or DM at AG podcast on Twitter.

Yeah, just let me know what you think. Very curious. Watch me stream my wedding on Twitter. Yeah, just let me know what you think. Very curious. Watch me stream my wedding on TV. Watch me be here like, I don't even want an engagement ring. And then I stream my wedding on, you know, Netflix. Like I, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? I don't think that's gonna happen. But anyway, that's all I have for today. I have to go pee so bad. I've been drinking peppermint tea

and for some reason that really makes me have to go pee. So I really need to wrap this up. But thank you all for listening and thank you all for hanging out. I hope you enjoyed. It was such a pleasure as always. New episodes of anything goes come out every Thursday and Sunday.

Tune in, hang out if you feel like it. Follow me on Instagram if you want an Emma Chamberlain, if you want to keep up with me as a person. Check out my coffee company, Chamberlain Coffee. Pick up some coffee, tea, accessories for coffee and tea, whatever your heart desires. That's on ChamberlainCopy.com. You can use code AG15 for a little discount.

Yeah, I just really love and appreciate all of you and I'll talk to you soon. you can use code AG15 for a little discount. Yeah, I just really love and appreciate all of you and I'll talk to you soon.