anything goes with emma chamberlain - my fashion soulmate, a talk with jared ellner [video]

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

[video available on spotify] today, i'm going to be talking fashion with the only person i wanna talk about fashion with, jared ellner, my stylist and fashion soulmate. i've always been into fashion, and i truly believe that my relationship with jared has allowed me to explore fashion with less of someone who's telling me what to do, and rather a partner in crime. we are true collaborators. i can't wait for you to hang out with jared because, my god, i love hanging out with him. he’s my bestie. so enjoy jared and don't take it for granted because he's a rare fruit. emma's tiktok for garage magazine: https://www.tiktok.com/@garage_magazine/video/6805544530939579653?lang=en emma's streamy award outfit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqFCqg7DF7I Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I present to you Jared Elner, my stylist, my closest confidant, my soulmate, my fashion soulmate. Sometimes my boyfriend, but that's weird. No, today I'm going to be talking fashion with the only person I want to talk about fashion with, Jared, my stylist, my fashion soulmate. I've always been very into fashion myself, and I truly do believe that my relationship with Jared

has allowed me to explore fashion with less of someone who's telling me what to do and rather a partner in crime. You know, somebody who also has a fashion mind, who is excited about putting together looks, you know, coming up with new things, experimenting for various events and even day-to-day life. We are true collaborators and together we put together outfits. And that's really all it is. And I can't wait for you to hang out with Jared.

Cause my God, I love hanging out with Jared. Oh, I do it all the time. He's bestie. But now you get to have a little piece of Jared. And I had to drag him on here. So enjoy Jared and don't take it for granted because he is a rare fruit. Were you a stylish kid? My first instinct is to scream no.

I really wasn't a stylish kid. I was just obsessed with fashion, like deep cut fashion. Actually, I was a pretty, I grew up in like a repressed town. So I was like not that stylish. So like your style was like fitting in with the kids. Totally. What was that?

Like describe an outfit for Jared in like high school. It's kind of similar to what I wear now because I just wear a T-shirt and pants. Like that's what happens, but it was like a bad T-shirt and like ill fitting. Like no one- It was a worst T-shirt in a worst pair of pants. And worst pants. And that's it. There wasn't much going on, but it was which is

Embarrassing, you know, well, that's like one of my favorite things about you though is that like before we started working together. I was like Stylus must have the best Personal style. Hmm. It must be so insane and dynamic and crazy. Like it must be present there. What was so fascinating to me about you is that your personal style is understated. It's not like you're, you know, wearing like an Alexander McQueen gown

to like your birthday party. Literally. You're wearing like car hearts, T-shirt, but like with a chic birthday party. Literally. You're wearing like car hearts. Yeah. T-shirt. Yeah. But like with a chic little boot. Totally. You know what I'm saying?

And it's like, so to me, it's so fascinating that your, your interest in fashion seems to be outside of yourself. It's not like you're obsessed with what you put on you. You're obsessed with the art of it? Elaborate on that. I just didn't think about it. Like I didn't think about what I was wearing too hard. If I'm like, I mean, growing up happy and like fit in, great.

We love it. And then it progressed and like, hopefully it got cuter and just like simple, but I've never been a person who like stares in the mirror and is like, okay, how does this fit and what does this look like and what do I have to do to look like this? But I'm obsessed with like how other people look and how to like turn someone else into something and I think that's hopefully translated to my style where like it improved and now I do think about it, but it was never about like, oh my god, I have to be a stylist because I love sneakers. Or something, you know what I mean?

And I have 500 sneakers. I have two sneakers, you know what I mean? That's the vibe. It's so, like, you're weirdly a minimalist with your own closet. Yeah. Like, if I go into your closet, which I do, I'm like looking around and... There's nothing.

It's simple. It's effective. It's like, I. It's effective. It's like, I feel like you have your uniform so that you can focus on putting other people into their little costume. Totally. And this is not a personal inward art form for you. It's very outward. Like I feel like it's all about putting things out.

For sure. I mean, honestly, it's like each time somebody gets dressed, it's like a little art project. I'm doing little dioramas. Yeah. That's what it feels like. You're doing a little diorama on me, and then I'm in leather underwear on the head.

And somehow it's a really slutty diorama. Yeah, it's so crazy, but it's totally hot. Yeah, it's amazing. And effective at the party. And inappropriate. And super inappropriate. It's totally hot. Yeah, it's amazing. And effective at the party. And inappropriate. And super inappropriate. It's totally fine. And it was controversial.

Was it? People were like, who's this fucking freak? And then they were like, she's kind of cool actually. Wait a second. She's... They're taking their pants off. We're talking about when you wore Acne Studios underwear, leather, and a jacket. Yes.

And nothing else. And nothing else. It was like my, actually, we'll get into that later. We'll talk about all of our looks later. What? Like all of the fun risks we've taken because we got riskier later. Okay, so you went to fashion school in New York City. Parsons.

I went to Parsons, but I went for design. I did not dream of being a stylist. I don't think there was one time that I was growing up that I dreamt of being a stylist. I wanted to be a designer, like always. Yes. And then after college, I just started working at a magazine and then you quite literally turned me into a stylist.

I would not have been a stylist. Something else would have happened, but you were like, wait, I need a stylist. And I was like, I'll do it. Yeah! But that's why. I never thought about it, but I went to school for fashion, which is also like the fashion kids are less like,

what's my vibe? And they show up in like something blank and they're like, what's your vibe? Yeah. And that's what's so interesting about it is that for me, like fashion is so personal for me. I do love fashion objectively. Like I do enjoy looking at it and analyzing it

and thinking about it. But it's like, I think I only do because I like using it as a form of personal expression. And I think that's kind of what sets apart, I'm realizing like a true fashion head who's like, I wanna work in this shit what sets apart, I'm realizing, like a true fashion head who's like, I want to work in this shit in the sense that I'm designing, I'm a stylist. I mean, this is not true across the board, but I'm noticing it more.

Yeah. Actually, now I'm thinking about it more and it just depends. You disagree. What do you mean? Because I'm like, now I'm thinking about it. And there are definitely some stylists who it's very personal for them too. Like they want to be dressed up. Totally. You know what you mean? Because I'm like, now I'm thinking about it. And there are definitely some stylists who it's very personal for them too. Like they want to be dressed up. Totally.

You know what I mean? It's a mix. It's a mix. Some people need to like live in the fantasy of it too, along with the people that they're dressing. And I think I'm like just starting to have more fun with that. But I never got into this to be involved at all.

Like I just wanna like be behind the scenes and like do the cute things and like make it all happen and then like disappear. But I think the people who are excited by like being in the spotlight too, it's a different story. It's a different vibe. Yeah.

Jared should needs to be in the spotlight and isn't. Isn't it always this way? Those who'd really deserve to be in the spotlight because they're so special. They just want to be hidden. I just want to go to bed. I want to go to bed. It's actually true. I mean, I try to make Jared go out with me on the weekends and he's like,

I'm, I'm sending my boyfriend Owen with you. I do it for you more than anybody in my entire life. Are you kidding me? But it's still brave with me. Every, every three asks, two of them are noses. But for anyone else, it's just a blanket, no. I know, but that's why I love our relationship. Totally.

We appreciate each other. It's like we're perfect for each other. We're soulmates. We are soulmates. Okay, so you went to fashion school. You were like, I want to be a designer. Now you are a designer and you design clothes Not I mean yeah, you do you know how to design clothes and you design clothes. We're working on it

You are a phenomenal designer. I've worn your clothes totally you actually have that's true Yeah, so stop lying to the public. It's just weird. That was a scary moment for me. Really? Yeah, of course I think that was one of like our first five fittings, maybe. And we were just doing like cute stuff to dress up in. And I put you in it and you were like, this is so cute. And I didn't say anything until like after you'd worn it or something because I was, I was, I don't want to like influence you.

Totally. And be like, I made this, but I did make that. Well, it's deeply personal to create something and then, you know, it's even scarier. Actually in retrospect I'm scared like imagine you had showed it to me and been like what do you think of this? And I said, oh Jared that's hideous and you made it? But that's fair you need feedback.

By the way that's happened not with you with other people. I'll tell you about it later. I can't wait. I'll tell you about it later. I can't wait. I'm already thinking about, okay. So I'm curious about your education. What's one thing that you learned from going to fashion school that you feel like is invaluable, if anything? And what's one thing that you wish you had learned

and you didn't? Something that I learned that was invaluable. I like how, knowing how clothes are made and like how to fit them is like, I don't know how you do this without it. Cause there are so many times where one, we're rolling up to the red carpet and the dress falls apart.

Uh-oh, we have to sew it back together. We have to tell that story later. Horrifying. It was terrifying. It was terrifying. They're bigger issues, but that was horrible. It was terrible. Hor moment. It was terrifying. There were bigger issues, but that was horrible. It was terrible. Horrible.

But like knowing how to repair something, knowing how to make something fit, clothes are not meant to fit everybody. They're meant to fit like one person. So you have to like really mold it and shape it and make it look like flawless. And that takes like knowing where to pull, that tucks that in, that cinches hair. Remember the dress you wear for business of fashion? That's a contraption. Knowing how to turn that into something that actually fits is like...

I don't know how I would do this without that. I don't know how people do it without knowing how to make or adjust clothes. It's not like you're taking something off the rack and you're getting it in the correct size and then you're putting it on somebody, and it's not also like, oh, if this doesn't fit, then we're not wearing it. It's like, no, a lot of times we're taking these pieces that are like, okay, there's one size,

and it's basically like, can we make this work? And it is a huge, huge, huge piece of everything that we do. It's like trying to figure out how can we make this look right? Because I mean, especially when we're working with pieces from the runway and stuff like that, it's like, it's a nightmare. It's, you know, but I never even thought about that.

Like the technical side of the structure of a garment, that is huge and invaluable. But there are so many instances where it's just you and I in a dressing room somewhere or like somewhere random or in a remote part of, I don't even know where, where it's just like me, you and some safety pins. And it's like, if I didn't feel confident in my ability to alter things.

I would be like, okay, well, you're gonna look horrible. And there's nothing we could do. Well, there's gonna be something weird and baggy in the crotch. It looks amazing, but it's just one giant lump on the back. Yeah. Okay, that's huge. That's something I'm really happy that I learned.

Something that I wish we had spent more time on. I don't really know how to describe this, describe this, but like I wish there was a more emphasis on like how you put an outfit together and like, like genuinely what you are so good at doing and like why you are so good at fashion. You can put pieces together and you know what that style evokes. Yeah, this is going to be really steamy in a second. But it's true. You are like, you are brilliant for that. I've learned so much from you because that's not how I look at fashion. And you look at fashion in a way that's so personal and you can figure out how to turn random pieces into like a style or a vibe. And if I had known or thought about fashion like that, I think I would be better.

Like if I had started there. Okay, so you start working at a magazine, you're doing editorial styling for the magazine, you're right? I started as an assistant, but yeah, eventually. Because you did that for me. Wait, tell the story of how we met, eventually. Because you did that for me. Wait, tell the story of how we met. Sorry, let's do that.

I was working at a magazine called Garage Magazine. I was so lucky to work there. It was a magazine of six people, and I was the assistant. And then I worked there for years with the fucking sickest team, and I learned so much. It was insane. And then by the end, like you're like three and a half, I started styling my own shoots and like working less as an assistant and more as an editor. And

they wanted to do a TikTok shoot because TikTok was like it. And they were like, like the most ironic thing possible. They were like, okay, let's do a TikTok shoot. What is that? What do we do? And I forget how, but I remember being like, we should use Emma Chamberlain for it. And they were like, okay, that's never gonna happen. And I was like, yeah, I know, but this is, we're spitballing, this is brainstorming. And then shockingly, I guess you were down.

And they were like, okay, she's doing it. And I was like, oh, shit. And they were like, you're gonna style it. And I was like, oh, shit. And they were like, you're going to style it. And I was like, okay, I'm going to jump off a bridge. And but it was actually great. I, it was so much fun. That was a fun shoot. Okay.

So it was basically we shot for like, what, seven hours? Yeah. It felt like for one TikTok and it had crazy transitions. This is when no one knew what TikTok was, what the point of it was. I remember doing the story and being like, this is gonna be so out of touch in three weeks, but we still did it. And it was great, but also it was in the era

where TikTok was just dance. That's it. It was a song and it was a dance. There was nothing else. Maybe a lip sync. Maybe, I don't even know. I don't even know if lip syncing. Maybe not even a lip sync.

I don't know if they've heard of it yet. No, yeah. So it was basically you doing one TikTok, switching outfits. Yes. The entire time. And I have like a lot of criticism for that shoot because like it was the first thing I ever did. I would change a lot. I have such a fondness for the way that you styled that.

Why? Because, okay, it was campy to the max. And to me, I don't think that that TikTok would have been interesting. Had the styling been maybe more cool or maybe more like it kind of had to be campy and crazy and fun. And you put me in this like insane dress that had the crazy, the big, but it was so loud and so crazy. And it was so, that's what crazy the big but it was so loud and so crazy and it was so That's what made the tick tock and I like pink eyeshadow on you did and it was like also the hairstylist taped my face back Remember. Yeah, you look so good

Every time I've gotten my face taped for a shoot after that point it's been like Damn, like I can't ever go back. No. Damn, this shit feels good. Yeah, it's really nice. It hurts so bad. Well, it's horrible, but the result is like a relief. Well, it's like, wow.

For those of you who don't know what getting your face taped means, you put too little, there's two sticky pads that go on your temples, and then there's little hooks on them, and then there's an elastic that you put around your head, and it just lifts the whole fucking thing. It lifts your face as though you have a snatched ponytail, and your face just looks, it's completely toxic. It's horribly toxic. It's ruining our world industry.

No, no, no, this is when we all say social media is fake. It's like, yeah, yeah, the girls' faces are taped. Okay, so let's go back. So we were, we, no, we, that was me. But also Jared, you're up in ice. That was me, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. Okay, so we're, you're putting me in these crazy outfits for this TikTok shoot.

And I, at the time, didn't have a stylist. I, for me, was almost anti the idea. Cause I was like, I. You are a style. I'm sorry. You became who you are in part for your style and how good you are at doing that. And that's like such a crazy thing.

Cause that's like, how does one even do that? You know what? I actually do think that that's why I was so against it. Because I was like, I'm going to lose my edge. Yeah. It's not going to be me anymore. And so I was always so against the idea. Which is very valid.

But the only time I would work with a stylist was at a photo shoot when it was like editorial and it was like, okay, I'm being put in like a crazy outfit. Yeah. And this is so fun, but also this is my day to day or like for, you know, even for an event, I used to style myself and I would really do bad at that. I don't believe that. That was not good. No, my first event outfit ever was insane.

What is it? Wait, we've never looked at that. What was it? Imagine this. Tell me. I'm thinking. Okay. Yeah.

It was a pair of super high-waisted gray plaid pants that were tapered though. So that's where they got bad. And then we had a Gucci boot lace up. Yeah. Little heel. No, no, no, it gets worse. I had a white bodysuit on. This whole event that I went to not only was my worst outfit, but also it was that

embarrassing speech I did at the Streamy Awards. Oh no. I won an award and I went up on stage and I bombed the speech and I still get made fun of about it to this day. Fair enough, you guys. This is good. You need to be- Character building.

Humbled. Yes. You can't- this is something we actually discussed. You can't be hot all the time. No, you can't. And you shouldn't. It's not right for the fabric of society. Like it's not good.

You cannot, and anyone who is. Is a bad person. Bad, evil, evil, evil, evil. Something's wrong. Sinister. Yeah. Sinister, if you can't find a skeleton in the closet, like an embarrassing skeleton in the closet of a human being something's wrong

No, no huge red flag abort mission like get out because it's not gonna be good. So yeah, that was really bad Um, that's tough. So like my personal style. I did not want to be threatened, but I was like and I just was scared I was like if I hire a stylist, you know, what's gonna happen to my own personal identity? But I was also at the time, like, working with stylists only for photo shoots. So that's how I met Jared. The whole styling world, like, what a stylist was, I always thought of it as, this is so business. Yeah.

This is so for press, for magazines, for this, for that, for the red carpet. And at the time I was rarely doing those things. So it was like, I don't know, it was just interesting because I met you in a context where I was like, this is so fun to like work with somebody on this. And I love this. But also where does this fit into my life? Anyway, but then I was like, no, something clicked for me. And I was like, I need a stylist.

Well, you became a busy girl. Well, it was also, it was like a combination of like, oh, I'm starting to go to more events. I'm starting to have more photo shoots for things. But also like, it'd be so fun to have just like a partner in crime on this. Who can like, who has the resources too to go out? And this is huge?

Basically rent things, lend things because it's just unsustainable to be always buying new things and then now you own them. It makes no sense. Whereas like Jared and I are like technically renting things all the time and then I wear it and then we give it back. So it's like, anywho, so I was like, I need a stylist and I, Jared was the only option. It's interesting that if you don't want to have a stylist because you don't want to lose your identity, but when you start doing so much that you need to be in clothes so much,

if you work with a bunch of random people, then you actually don't have any identity. I think it's like, it's really helpful to have somebody to grow with so that you can like start to feel like one brain and that you don't have to explain anything. And they know about your weird stomach issues and if what's going to work with that or not. And also like what vibe you are in in your life. No body suits Jared. Emma might have diarrhea at the function. Exactly. No thongs because I can't actually say this. No thongs because Emma will shit herself and it will be everywhere. No, I mean, I think like what happened was is my publicist Kate was like,

you need a stylist. Like you can't handle like dressing yourself for events, dressing yourself for like photo shoots, dressing yourself for even, you know, even just pulling pieces for day to day life. Like you just don't have time. Yeah. And she was like, you really need to consider a stylist. And I was so against it. And then she was like, what about Jared?

And I was like, yeah, actually, that is perfect because I could tell that you were never going to make it your agenda. Like I could tell immediately that fashion for you, there's not ego in it for you. No. Like you, it's art for you. Yeah.

And so, and that was so clear to me on that day that the second she said it, I was like, that makes complete sense. That is, that is exactly who it is. And, you know, very, very quickly, I feel like our relationship just became what it is. And I would say it's very unusual. Do you agree? I can't stop smiling. That was the sweetest time.

That was so, I was so scared during that time. It was like falling in love. That was actually falling in love. But like the scare, I hope you weren't nervous. I was so nervous during that time. I was nervous too, because it's like, this is like, weirdly an intimate thing. I'm like inside you. Like I'm like taking your pants off and like putting on like G-

like it's so intimate. I mean like at the Met one year, like he's cutting my underwear. Like he's like up my skirt inside with scissors, cutting this seam around my underwear because you could see it through my skirt. It is an incredibly intimate relationship on an emotional level and on a physical level so intimate it's crazy right it's insane but I think when we first started working together we did

Chamberlain coffee shoot and I put you in I didn't know that your mom was gonna be at this shoot no one told me me. And for whatever reason, I thought it was appropriate to put you in a gorgeous, but like such a slutty outfit. For the first outfit we've ever done, like officially together, oh my God, it was stunning. It was this beaded mini skirt and top, but it was so short and the top was so tiny. And my nipple was kind of poking through the beads.

Just a little bit. Just a little bit and we were like, oh, but the piece you wanted. And you were in the highest heels. Yes. Like all the Chamberlain coffee shoes before that, tan, demure, it's holiday, full skank. It was so fun though.

And then your mom literally walked out from the back room and my heart sank and I was like, it's over. Yeah, but now you know that like no one's a bigger fan of Jared than my mom. She loved it. No, no, no, no, no one's a bigger fan of, well, maybe me, but also you looking hot and slutty. My mom loves it.

She's obsessed with it. My mom does like, yeah, she does love it. She loves it. Because she's like, Emma, like, why are you not tapping into this? Have fun. Literally. You're young.

She's correct. Like enjoy. But not all moms are like that. So I did get a little nervous. But then you found out. But then I found out and I was like, OK, we should go shorter. Yeah, like when are we going shorter? And then, you know, fast forward to now I were on the curve.

So she's super happy. She's super happy. She's really proud of you. Like what I've turned into. Wait, describe our relationship in your words. My words. Yeah. And then I'll describe our relationship in my words. Well, I mean the gaps.

Okay, cool. Truthfully, like, I really do feel like you're my fashion sister soulmate. Like, there are very few people who maybe don't agree because we mostly agree, but like, who understand what I want to articulate or I want you to articulate or what I'm envisioning or imagining, like you I think can understand what I'm going for very easily. And a lot of people, it takes a lot of work

and a lot of proving and a lot of trust and a lot of like successes to be like, okay, I trust you. But I think you really get it and also are excited by the same things. I feel deeply connected to you in a disgusting way. That's very embarrassing. It's fashion. And then it's also like, because the thing is Jared and I, if we were not doing fashion,

would still be best friends anyway. I would hope so. Jared, you're my best friend. I literally, I'm like, I don't have anyone else, Jared. By the way, same. No, I know, we need each other. You're my best friend. And then with Owen, the three of us, it's like,

oh, this is for life. This is, I don't know if this is the right description, but I will never, ever, ever be more grateful for a relationship probably ever in my life, maybe my family, maybe, maybe Owen, but like you maybe. No, but also maybe not. And honestly, maybe not in the group chat right now. Like Jared, what the fuck was that?

He heard it. Yeah, he heard it. Yeah. He probably did here, but genuinely because nobody else. One still like allows me to like do what I want to do in a way that you allow me to, but also it's really a lot of like trust and power to put in someone's hands and to feel confident enough to choose a random, I don't know how old was I at the time, 23, 23 year old. You'd be like, okay, you is crazy. It's crazy. Like you fully changed my life and you, I will never get over it.

We can't. We literally have to talk about something so, so, so, so, so inappropriate and superficial after this or something to start crying. Because Jared, I like, I mean, you to me are complete fashion soulmate. And it's, there's not only do we see eye to eye, but we also disagree. We've gotten good at disagreeing.

No, no, no, it's amazing, Jared. I would argue creative relationships are fucking pointless if it just becomes an echo chamber. Yeah. If you agree about everything, no one gets challenged. No one learns. It's so healthy to disagree. I mean, I think that that's why we create so many looks that we're proud of together because we fight. Yeah.

It's like, no, no, no, no, no, not that. Like, hair needs to be up. Jared, hair needs to be down. We do get a lot of glam specific. Yeah, this is like for red carpet events. There's a lot of red carpet events. We're always like, Jared's like, yeah, you're wearing a ponytail down to the ass for today.

Yeah, it's gonna have to be a ponytail. Jared, can we just do like natural, like let's just do like a natural, like super scruffy, like looks like I like didn't brush my hair for four days. He's like, ponytail down to your ankle. There was a period where that was the fight though. And for like six months, I feel like there was a certain length of your hair where you're like, scruffy, obviously. Yeah. I was like, it can't be. I know. And then we kept getting into fights. I have a few memories of some good fights, but also just before I forget,

the opposite I feel like happens to where either someone gets dressed by a stylist and they take all of their opinions completely or they need to dictate the show and they have to like do what they wanna do and they are unable to actually tap into a stylist's ideas because they're either too insecure or they need to stick to what they've done or they have their controlling, like whatever, like that's also something too.

So it's both ways, like both people have to be equally open. I recently did some self-reflecting because I was like, my style really is all over the place. Like, you know, we go to one event and I'm, and I look like this, like pretty little princess. And then we go to another event and I'm wearing, you know, the leather underwear and then I'm going to another event and I'm a little, you know, I'm like schoolgirl, like preppy vibe.

And then I'm playing tennis and then I look like an alien. And it's like like I've always wondered like what is the through line? Is there a through line? Does there need to be a through line? As long as it feels authentic then it's on the same path. But that's the thing you have so many different facets that like all of that's authentic. Like I think you're so comfortable with so many parts of yourself that like you're like-

There's a lot of parts. There's a lot of parts. So there yourself that like you're like There's a lot of parts. There's a lot of parts. So there's a lot of looks. There's a lot of looks. So it's just different. But I don't know. I think that's the most fun part. And also I think more recently for sure you slash we have gotten more experimental because

you're even more comfortable and we're even more comfortable. And also it's a sense of like who gives a fuck. Yes. I feel like we've gotten to a point where it's like if we feel like it's good even if it doesn't translate one million percent like we know what we did. Yeah and we fucking like it. Yeah. I think that's something interesting I've noticed about the fashion world from the perspective of people in fashion and from the perspective of people outside of fashion. I've just noticed that the fashion world and all the various eyes on it take it way too fucking seriously.

If somebody, a celebrity wears a look on the carpet and the masses don't like it, it's like- It's headline news. It's headline news. It's headline news. Yeah. It's actually really insane how. Fashion has that effect. It's crazy. What are your thoughts on that?

It's just a waste of time to like be that critical about something that's so surface level. But then again, I also am obsessed with it, and that's what I spend my whole life doing, so I find it fascinating. So I kind of bounce back and forth. I think fashion is as equally dumb and a waste of time and overhyped as I am deathly obsessed with it,

and will never stop thinking about it and spend every second of my day working on it. So like, I'm not a good barometer for this because I can't make up my mind about it. What I've noticed is people who aren't necessarily in the fashion world, they don't really care. It's not their sport, okay? They are really judgmental of fashion. Totally. Like most people who are not in fashion think fashion is stupid.

Yes. It's actually really fascinating because I always did too. I was like, this runway show is stupid. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, I like saw a show on YouTube or something. And it was like, there was all this stuff coming out and there was like whatever. And I remember thinking, I don't get it.

What the fuck is this? Who is this for? What is, what purpose is this serving? I did not understand what it was. And so I thought it was dumb, and that's why I was critical of it. Totally. I was always hyper-critical of fashion because I think I didn't understand it, but also I think in a weird way I was threatened by not understanding it,

which made me resent it. I think that's how a lot of people probably feel, because it's so, at times, over the top that it's like, how could I even engage with this? Okay, I can engage with this. Wait, I'm kind of pissed about this. This is dumb. Like I feel like that's probably the trajectory.

And also it's not wrong. Fashion is like the most pretentious space unnecessarily. You find like the people with the worst morals and who care about the worst things and like are so judgmental and not even the people, but the ideals that it projects, there's so much toxicity in it. But I think if you're not someone who's going to ever directly benefit from the parts that like are great about it. If you're never going to wear something for a photo shoot or, I don't know, not even that,

but just dress up for the sake of dressing up, most people don't either have time to do that or have the freedom to explore that or express that. If you're never actually going to benefit from fashion, it's pretty useless. But fashion can be horrible. And what it promotes is pretty horrible a lot of the times. It's true. And we are like actively working to change that. Maybe we can make it about the art again.

I mean... Because I think that's what it should be. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm realizing like both of us genuinely care about fashion because it, to us, is like, this is art to us. Yeah, totally. And I don't think that that is true for the rest of the industry. No, fashion is like, for whatever reason, however this happened over history, so deeply tied to power.

And I think that's just fucked a lot of shit up. And like, I think also part of the allure in front of the fashion industry is like, the like sexy, am I gonna make it in? Are people gonna respect me? Oh my God, this is so tough, wait, I did it. Like it's just like the devil wears product. It totally, like that movie I think is

all anyone needs to know. Yeah. As a stylist, how do you manage to figure out how to create a look that will translate to the world? What is that process like? But then also, where's your head at when you're sending off you know your person your client yeah and they're about to go get a bunch of photos taken and there's now nothing you can do like talk about all this literally terrifying

sending someone out and having no control horrible you have to have thought through like every possible thing that could go wrong or look wrong or be weird or not make sense. So scary. And like, who knows? There's a gust of wind when the photo's taken. Uh-oh. Horrible. Her boobies out.

Her boobs out. Literally. Have I had a booby out yet? I don't think so. I don't think I've ever told this sort of story. Like, I don't think I've ever talked about this publicly. Maybe I have. When I go to events, when I do red carpets,

when I go to the fashion shows, I'm also a mess. You know, because I'm like, I'm like, it doesn't matter how good I feel in person, it doesn't matter how confident I feel in person. If the lighting's off, if the photographers aren't good, if, I don't know, if there's a weird shadow somewhere, I mean, I, Jared, you know, it's ruined my day. Which one are you referring to? It's not always the outfit, it's like, it's ruined my day. Which one are you referring to? It's not always the outfit.

It's like, it's sometimes even just like the glam, like how the makeup looks, how the hair looks in person. Like Venice Day One red dress. Which was crazy because I thought you looked amazing. It looked so good on Instagram. I know it looked so good on iPhone. Like it was whatever, but my face just looked weird. You looked so good.

But I understand it. Sometimes you just can't. Sometimes it just doesn't work for you. It just didn't. No, but it's like sometimes it comes down to bad lighting. Yeah. Imagine this, like there's certain red carpets that always have good lighting. Yeah, it's like Vanity Fair. Vanity Fair Oscar party. It's the Met Gala.

It's. You don't like the Met lighting. Sometimes I do. Usually it's great, but Vanity is like vanity fair is the best gorgeous Wait, what else is good? You haven't gone, but the Academy gal is the lighting is really good there gorgeous See but these are the things that we think about because you know, it's genuinely so frightening to And it shouldn't be right like in an ideal world. It's like we don't care

It's like we you know, you don't look at a photo and everything right? Like in an ideal world, it's like, we don't care. It's like, you know, you don't look at a photo and everything you look bad in an ideal world. I'm so sorry. That is not. Oh my God. It doesn't. That's an impossible play. Not impossible.

I'm not going to say that. That is such a challenging place to get to that majority of us are not going into a red carpet. Like, yo, fuck it. Like if I look like shit, I look like shit. I don't care. Yeah, but also there's so much effort put into those moments. You want to be happy with what it looks like. How do you style a look that you think

will translate well when it ends up on the internet instead of it just being in person? Because what have you found is the most effective is it like taking photos of it with your iPhone and seeing if it translates like sometimes in a 2D form. It's like- Definitely. Okay. That's like step one. It has to look good in iPhone pics. It has to look good in a shitty quality photo.

Like it just has to. If it doesn't pass that test, it's nothing more. Done. Lighting is a lot of it. So also imagining like every type of lighting it could be in, it's basically just like a huge checklist of like, okay, well this won't look good because of this or this won't look good because it's not Even though in person it's snatched if you look at it from a weird angle

It's not like there's so many things That are so specific to each look that I don't I don't know if there's a way to categorize it all at once But it's a lot of like Canceling out it's basically finding something that hits all the criteria. Yeah. Which is super challenging. And then even still it's like, let's say. Yeah.

Okay, why don't we tell them some of our horror stories? Oh, okay. Why don't you tell the story about the long comb event at the Louvre, red dress, what happened Jared? You tell it. It was a beautiful dress, it was gorgeous. It wasvre, red dress, what happened, Jared? You tell it. It's a beautiful dress. It was gorgeous. It was a vintage red dress that we learned was very delicate.

And a lot of times you can't cut things because it's vintage or it's a runway sample or whatever. So you have to find a way to tailor it without cutting it, which is challenging. And this specific dress was too long. So we had to figure out a way to make it shorter, but it was so thin that it wasn't an easy dress to make shorter. So a special like hand sewn alteration that didn't cut anything had to be done. And it was like kind of a big train. So it was all the way around.

So that happened. You tried it on, you did glam, you were doing photos beforehand and I looked over and you're like, uh oh and the whole thing had come undone, the whole hands on him. That probably took like- Oh yeah, that's where it started, yes. Right? That probably took hours for our sweet tailor to do. And this is just what happens. Like you know shade to the tailor,

like that just happens when you're working with- Well, cause my shoe got caught on it and ripped the thin thread and it's just like that's all that- That's it. We're doing the best we can. So you got in the car, luckily it was kind of a long drive. Long drive. Maybe 20, 30 minutes, like that's nice.

And it was a bumpy ride and I just had to sit on the floor and re like hand sew the whole thing and then finally done. Gorgeous. We're so happy. Jared like quite literally 20 minutes to fix this. Just a hem. But also like it's like a complicated complicated like it's a type of maneuver that is really challenging to explain and even more challenging to understand

like I quite literally didn't know how Jared was sewing this in a certain way to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish it was like very confusing to get like our flashlights like shining on him and he's like the fucking hard guy. Jared's like sewing my skirt. He was like insane. It was horrible. It was horrible. And then five minutes, no, I would say three minutes before.

No, no, no, I'd say two. As we were pulling up. Yeah. As we were pulling up, we looked down, the center seam of your dress popped like out of nowhere. So crazy. This was our worst luck yet. the center seam of your dress popped like out of nowhere. This was our worst luck yet. No, the security of the event was trying to open my the door and Jared's like, shut the fucking door.

I was like, Jared, baby, that was so weird. He's like, shut the fucking door. You're like, this is not that big of a deal. No, it actually was because my entire cooter was out. Cause it was like, it was like split down the fucking center. It was, it actually wasn't that big. It was probably like what? Yeah. Because it was like split down the fucking center. It was actually wasn't that big. It was probably like what? Yeah, but it was like very vaginal.

It was a slit. On my cooter. Yeah, like that was a that was a hole for your vagina. Anyway, so we had to close that. So we actually should have left it. You could have had a lot of fun. We had to close that and that was really stressful. I was like kind of stressed before that,

but then when we were like there and they were like, Yeah, but thank God you had thread from the bottom. Like thank God you brought your sewing kit. Yeah. Because imagine like you hadn't needed it so desperately, you could have forgotten it. I will never, I don't think I have it on me now, but I will never go anywhere without a sewing kit.

Ever again. Ever. You can't. No, it's me now, but I will never go anywhere without a sewing kit. Ever again. You can't. No, it's impossible not to. It's impossible. That was bad. So that was a horrible one. That was a really bad experience. It's pulled it off.

But it turned out great. It turned out totally great. That same week, remember, one of our favorite looks that we ever did, which was that, you know, it was the Armani Brevet dress. It was the, you know, it was black. It was completely be it all over. It had sort of an argyle. A thousand pounds.

It was, I was about to say, this is where the catastrophe strikes for this one. It looked fucking amazing. Where was the catastrophe? It was fully intact. It was. You were in hell. 90 pounds, Jared. You know what?

What was so hard? This is my story to tell. Jared. Okay. So this dress is like unbelievable. It looks so good, but there's a few challenging elements to it. Number one. Oh, your breasts.

It was very much like a spaghetti strap sort of dress situation. Barely there. The boobs were almost out. Like we had to tailor it so much to keep the boob in. The entire night, my boob was almost out. That was fun for me. That was so fun. I loved it.

I was like, oh my God, Jared, I'm about to absolutely have a boob fall out in front of Anna Wintour. And in heels, though. Also this dress was 90 pounds. So heavy. But it's not only 90 pounds. 90 pounds on a spaghetti strap. Exactly.

So it's just digging into my fucking shoulders. Yeah, like we had to put concealer on my neck because my neck was like chafing and bloody because it was like it was like so heavy and not only that but I had bleached eyebrows. That was actually the good part. That was the best part. That was the good part. That was an amazing part. Yeah, I love that. We should do that again. But then whenever I would take my makeup off. So scary. In the hotel lobby. Like after, everybody would be like, oh my god,

because I don't wear makeup that much. And off duty, you know, whatever. Off duty, no eyebrow is like, oh, she's so sick. Like what is wrong? It looks like full, like, oh my god, like, that's a lot of tequila for her. Yeah, literally. It makes the dark circles come out.

Yeah. It makes like the lips look extra pale. It literally looks like, oh, she ate, like, she ate recalled cantaloupe from, you know, like from the grocery store. She's only eating spoiled fish. She's super, super, she has severe food poisoning. It's very Voldemort.

It's super Voldemort, which sometimes is hot. I totally think it's hot. Sometimes it's not. True. But we, but you will be doing Ble totally think it's hot. Sometimes it's not. True. But you will be doing Bleach Eyebrows. Totally, by the way. You sold me, because the thing about Bleach Eyebrows is that it gives more room for the eyeshadow look.

That's literally the only reason. Yeah. And it's sick. It's so sick. You can bring the shadow all the way up. Also, I don't know. I feel like people are more intimidated by me with the Bleach Brow.

They're like, oh, she's totally. Well,, she's super scary because it's like, holy shit, is she going to stab me? Is she going to hug me? Yes. Do I want to fuck her? Do I want to be her? Like, what is this? Or should I just run away? No, everybody runs away. Yeah. Wait, can I ask you a question? Yeah. What's your favorite look that we've ever done? Like, I have one that immediately comes to mind. What is it? It's the Margella look. OK, yeah, that's that's a very solid one. Like I don't know why I love that so much to paint a picture for you all.

It was this white body suit with fishnet tights over it. White heels with a sock with a sock, which I always love the sock. And oh, I loved my second met look though, too. That's so good. heals with a sock with a sock, which I always love the sock and I loved my second met look though, too. That's so good like the switch doing like the blue gown your third third You've just gone too many times My eighth met look is my favorite. By the way, it's coming. It's coming. No, I loved the blue and then I loved the black.

I love that we had two looks for the Matt, one for the carpet, one for the interviews. Can I be honest about that one though? Yeah. That one is one of the looks where I feel like we both, but I especially learned what works and what doesn't because that look in person was so good. Oh my God. It didn't translate as well.

It didn't translate as well as it should have, which is, it's still, I thought you looked amazing, but in person and in videos specifically, you were a princess. The vibe of the look really did change on the red carpet and it did not like that look for something more editorial Yeah, it would have had this different vibe. Yeah, but it was still like no regrets I loved it the two but that that was also your genius idea you well They came they mew mew gave us two of the same things Yes, and which was so nice. And you were like, we can't not use these.

Well, that's what it was. So we had two versions of the same. Not sustainable. Well, they made two colors of the gown. Yeah. One in black, one in pale blue. Because they were like, we don't know what color you're going to like better.

But I was having a really hard time deciding which color I liked better. And I did decide, I was like, let's use both. Let's use both. And because I really don't want to waste. No, you know, I don't want to waste one. Like it just would be such a shame. So that was so fun.

That was great. I really loved the second look because it was like so fun to be at the Met, but in this like casual ass outfit, like I was wearing, it was like, I was wearing a low fur heel and like, and like a long outfit like I was wearing it was like I was wearing a loafer Heel literally in like a long skirt length skirt. It was very it was so me And it was like still very it still felt elevated enough. I mean it's definitely more approachable, but it was fun to Go casual mode. Mm-hmm. Years in the past. It was like, oh my god I'm still wearing this like very very over the top complicated gown while I'm like doing

these interviews. Yeah. And so it was nice to me like have I haven't breathed in two hours just thinking about that two years, two years actually it's been two years. Finally exhaling. I don't know. It's just like, yeah, but that's valid stress. I know.

I we love it. We love it. We live for it. I actually do know, it's just like. Yeah, but that's valid stress. I know, we love it, we love it, we live for it. I actually do live for it. When it comes to being involved in fashion, I think it's crucial to appreciate it for what it is, appreciate the art that it is, while also understanding that it's a novelty. Yeah. Do you think fashion has a cultural impact

that is significant, like deeply significant, and do you think it impacts society, or do you think that it doesn't, and that's okay? I think it has quite literally everything to do with what's happening in society. I mean, but what do you think comes first? Do you think fashion imitates life in society, in the world, in culture?

Or do you think culture follows fashion? I mean, honestly, fashion has so much to do with how people are represented in society. There's just so many examples of fashion that have like shaken culture. Mini skirt, no longer wearing corsets. Like- Okay, number one, my personal favorite, mini skirt. The mini- Jared loves!

Oh my God, if you are what you love putting on your clients, you're a mini skirt. A mini skirt, by the way, I have a mini skirt for you to try after this. No way. Yeah, I'll explain. I'm coming over. Okay, great.

Okay. I'm not kidding. Love a miniskirt. And also miniskirt's crazy revolutionary. That changed society. Like women in the 19th century, 18th century were wearing like, you were in full corsets and bloomers and gowns and ruffles. Like you were covered in a way that's like shocking

if you actually think about it. Like to be in a T-shirt, even pants is revolutionary. Women were not allowed to wear pants at a certain point. But I will say it is so influential because our little sliver of time and what we currently wear is so different than even 50 years ago, which is so different than 50 years before that, and is so different than what it will be in

10, 20, 30, 40 years. I think fashion has a deep connection to freedom and what is acceptable and what's allowed and rules and restrictions. So there's a lot of politics and culture deeply embedded in fashion. I'm curious about where you see yourself next fashion wise. Cause there are a couple of eras that I remember you being like, this is the next phase.

Like when you wanted to start doing minimalism, which was like maybe a year ago, maybe a little longer, you were like, trust me, it's minimalism. Yeah. I was like, okay. And then we just started doing that. Yeah. And then it was a thing.

Yeah. At least for us. And then currently, super grunge, super goth. I know. Oh my God, it's so funny, Jared. My, oh my God, me? I like feel like, remember when I, okay, so I wore that black dress.

Yes. To CFTA Awards. To the CFTA Awards. I like feel like remember when I okay, so I wore that black dress. Yes, too Does the CFDA awards and it was like this corseted black strapless dress and I Did a little Vogue interview on Instagram where I was like, I don't know I've just been in like a more grungier phase and all the comments were like That is not You fucking liar and all the comments were like, that is not, that is not grunge. You fucking liar.

By the way. What the fuck? And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm like people, people, people. It's grunge to me. I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm like, this is so polished and so proper, but it's- Yeah, it was a little messy.

There was a little teeny kiss of like a darker grunge your feeling to it. Yeah, I think grunge wasn't the right word. I think you're feeling dark. Holy shit, did the fashion kids get mad? Yeah, you got slapped in the face. But it's fine. It's totally fine.

But by the way, humble me. Yeah, teach me. Teach me. Love me. Touch me. So, okay, to answer your question, what my next phase is, because by the way, we would need to have this conversation anyway. We're just doing work. Yeah, we're working right now. Yeah, we're on the clock. So, okay, to answer your question, what my next phase is, because by the way, we would need to have this conversation anyway.

We're just doing work. Yeah, we're working right now. Yeah, we're on the clock. This is a fucking meeting. Okay, we're on the clock. I'm in like a really weird phase right now. Like I have a few things happening in my head. Talk to me.

Okay, number one, it's like, definitely like, vampire core for me. Explain. But like not full vampire, but like, I don't know, you know, I've been loving like it's black, white, gray. Yeah. It's silver jewelry. It's like, you know, super like, um, suiting like silhouettes.

Like, you know, like a little vest, a little, you know, my favorite black bag is like sort of almost, uh... Briefcase-y. Briefcase-esque. It's like wearing like a deep lip liner, not covering my under eye bags. It's like a little Wednesday Adam's Eve. Straight black hair, like my hair's really dark right now.

It's like straight hair. It's like, you know, square toe loafer. It's like a trench coat. I'm there, but like weirdly something clicked a few weeks ago and I was like, no, I want to be a Parisian artist stereotype. And that is, I was going to say that's this. Yeah.

Yeah. I love a beret right now. Really? I'll get over it in about two days. Are you actually? Yes. I was just looking at a beret the other day and thinking, how horrible. So I want to.

No, Jared, can I, can I? I'll show you, I'll show you the one and you're gonna understand. Okay, yeah, because well, berets have to be very simple. Yeah. But it also can't be like too like, oh, this is a beret. If you wear, in my opinion, if you wear a beret properly... Yeah. How would you wear a beret? And it's like sitting like nicely, like kind of back on the head, like it's more like just this little thing. It doesn't read as like French painter Halloween costume. It just reads as like this cute sort of more floppy thing

that's happening. I have a pic of me in a beret that like fucking hits. Yeah. But it has to be done right? Cause you can't. You can't fuck with a beret. No, but it's actually a really cool vibe. The beret is cool, but it has to be understated.

Okay. Like a black beret is ideal. Yeah, of course. Red, maybe, but that's a little too on the nose. Totally. But it's like, you know, horizontal stripes like this. It's like, you know, it's like super, like very much primary colors. It's like classic Kelly Green.

The most classic red you've ever seen. The most classic like denim blue. It's like a perfect mustard yellow, like French's yellow mustard yellow. It's like French artist vibe. That's another thing that's happening in my brain right now that I'm loving. I love that.

Okay, what do you want to see me wear next? Like what do you want my next era to be fashion-wise? Your next era fashion-wise, Your next era, fashion-wise. I mean, I love the dark. I think it would be fun to merge that and feminine a little bit because like when you did, when you went to Gaultier, the all pink outfit, that mixed with like Tom Brown or Acne,

those looks that we did, some merge between those two, I'd be obsessed with. Interesting. Something that's like a little more feminine and fragile, but like Still really like yeah. Yeah, I love that. I would love that. That's also a very challenging balance and I tend to lean more I'm always like I am going full Tuxedo right now. Mm-hmm. I definitely do tend to lean more towards I definitely do tend to lean more towards masculine silhouettes. Totally.

Like that's just who I am. Yeah. I also think that's my comfort zone. Well, I think it's like comfort zone, but for a reason it works really well. It does work for me. It works for my personality, but also more than anything, it's more comfortable. So like at an event, I'm like, I feel the rush because I'm like, I don't have these tiny little spaghetti straps

digging into my neck and my boobs aren't out. But also like that's a fucking vibe too. Yeah, but you are. And I like that too. I have a mood board that I'll show you. Oh, actually. Wait, I can't wait. Yeah, it's going to be gorgeous.

It's so amazing. It's so amazing. It's the best thing I've ever seen. Jared, that one was so good. Haven't seen it. That was so good. I really like this like high, high, high fashion editorial vibe for you that we've been exploring more, but I think it would be fun to sort of like merge a couple of vibes. So it's not like this time we're going goth and this time we're going. Sure. You know what I mean? Sure. I think it maybe speaks to like your previous conversation about through lines and like maybe figuring out a way

to make it feel like one girl, even if it's just for like. I love this. I'm getting what you're saying. It's not making much sense and it's not really that clear. No, but I get it where it's like, okay, we're not like, we're not so on the nose with a theme. It's not like, oh, we're going full vampire mode today or like, oh, we're going like full just freakazoid alien.

Totally. It's like, no, no, no. We're actually making something new. Yes. This is like alien went to the supermarket, but whoa, why are her boobs out? But also, whoa, is that? She's so preppy.

But also, she's so preppy. Hold on a minute, is that my mother? That is what I want. Right? Like something almost like giving a new feeling that still makes sense. That's an interesting challenge that I would love to do with you. And specifically I am really excited about like princessy and goth. Love. We're so far apart on what we're seeing for the future. I'm like, okay, so I'm a little painter, man. I'm a little painter, man. I'm Picasso.

I'm only wearing Archive Picasso's clothes. I found them ultimately in the museum, and I ultimately stole them. Now I'm wearing them to Vanity Fair Oscar party. What do you think? Well, I'm super drunk in the clothes. And it's a big problem. Okay, so we have a lot of different vibes to achieve.

Yeah, but that's also like what makes it fun. Like, because also who knows what else is going to pop up in our brains on a random Tuesday in April. Totally. And there's a lot of time. And there's a lot of looks. So much fricking time. I'm trying to think if we have like any other fun stories we leave them off with.

There has to be one. That's like, what's our like final fun story? Like, like we haven't said anything. You cut my underwear out for at the Met. You sewed my dress. We actually know we're done. Cool. We'll let it be. I'm down because I have a lot of shit. I have to tell you in the car, like I've life updates.

That's that's totally like I'm actually sick of recording this because this is we have a lot of shits going on. It's fine. OK, let's go. Okay, let's go Okay, I'll see I love you Jared. Thank you for coming on my show. I love you so much. Thank you You're my soulmate. You're mine. Okay. This is getting weird