anything goes with emma chamberlain - the mother-daughter dynamic, a talk with my mom [video]

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

[video available on spotify] today i have a real treat for you. my mother. my mom and i have a very special relationship. in my older age, i would argue we have a special friendship. she’s definitely one of the girls and today we’re going to hangout. it’s a mother-daughter date and you get to listen in on it. we both love to overshare, so it’s going to be totally fun. so here is my mommy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I have a real, real treat for you. My mother. My mommy, yeah, she's my mommy. She's not really my mother, she's my mommy. You know what I mean? My mom and I have a very special relationship. In my older age, I'd argue we have a really special friendship.

She's definitely one of the girls. Do with that what you will. She's one of the girls. Do with that what you will. She's one of the girls. And today we're just gonna hang out. It's a mother-daughter date. And you get to listen in on it. And we both love to overshare, so it's gonna be totally fun.

So here is my mommy, Sophia Chamberlain. The one and the only. In what ways do you think I'm my mother's daughter? Oh my gosh, like there's just a list that goes on. Like you're a workaholic. I feel like I don't give off that vibe. I feel like I give off like slacker energy. Oh God, I don't think so.

Recently you've been getting out more, which I think is great, but like before that though, I mean, it was all about just like, oh, I have to do this, this is, you know, you're like. You're definitely like that too though. Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like, you know, it's, you wouldn't just like let loose and go have fun.

I was too scared, I think. I was like scared that I would like lose it if I was too scared, I think. I was scared that I would lose it if I was too much like that. When you were younger, did you do that too? Were you a workaholic with school or with work? Or were you like, no, I'm gonna go out and be with cute boys? I think any opportunity that I had,

like if friends were going out, it was like, where are we going on Thursday night? Like we had the dance clubs to go to and we had our routine and stuff. So any chance I got, I would definitely go out. Whether it was a party or clubbing or whatever. But that's interesting because you became a workaholic later in your life now.

You are the, like that is like you to a T. I thrive on accomplishing stuff Like I thrive on getting shit done. So it's not that it makes you like it's not that you love it But rather than it feeds you It depends also what kind of work for work work like it's an integrity thing You know what I mean? Like I feel like I have to accomplish a lot and get it off my plate and do it to perfection so that my integrity stays intact. Well, I am your mother's daughter in this way. Right?

But it's like so, not like toxic, but we're definitely both such perfectionists about, I mean, not, I wouldn't say just our work life, but I think it's very, very apparent and present there. But just in general, I feel like we're both so things have to be done right. Right. Like things have to really be done right. Like no cutting corners. Right. It has to be done right. Because otherwise you think, you sit and think about it.

You think like, oh, we could have done this better. We could have, or you see it physically see something that's not done. And then it's, you know, little, the details, right? Like you're not as detailed as I am. Like you'll, you, you're more accepting of things not being perfect. Like you almost, because you growing up with me, like wanting things to be so rigidly, you know, tidy and straight and this and that,

you kind of like want to mess things up. Like you want to kind of have things a little beat up or a little crooked or a little wonky, whereas I'm constantly, you know, like, and it's a control thing. And that's another thing that you're, you know, we have control issues. Well, we definitely have another way on my mother's daughter. Growing up with my mom was like growing up in an army base.

Every single household chore was bootcamp, doing the dishes bootcamp. Like literally my mom would like inspect the fork after I washed it. And she'd be like, you didn't use fucking hot water. He didn't. You didn't use hot water. Wow. Did you even use dish soap? Yeah. Did you know that you have to refill this with soap?

Okay. Obviously you don't. Yeah. When you look at me, what do you think I get the most fixated on? I think it's like controlling what's going to happen. I love to have a plan. Yeah. It's terrible. I love to have a plan. Yeah. It's terrible.

I'm like so bad. Like it's from like kind of random daily tasks. Everything has to be timed out on my Google calendar to like, I need to know like who's gonna be my maid of honor in my wedding. I need to know who's I'm gonna marry. I need to know how many kids I'm gonna have. Like I like am obsessed with that too.

Like having that, I need to know where I'm gonna live. Like I'm obsessed with planning the future as well. I think that's an age thing too though. Were you like that? I mean, I feel like it's kind of a goal, like a life goal or something. And you wanna get, we're very impatient, that's the other thing. So we wanna get to it as soon as possible because you have it all planned

out, you know, it has to happen. So you just, you're in a big hurry to get there and I was very much like that. But on a daily basis, I may not be like anxious about my future like you are. Cause I feel like I've kind of arrived, you know, you have your career. You have a child who's a nightmare and that's so much so distracting. And then you have- Filled with a lot to do on a daily basis. In what ways are we different?

Well, like I said, I mean, I think you rebelled against my precision on things. And so you kind of like when things are a little more knocked around, beat up, wonky, crooked, a little messy, like you kind of rebel against that. It's not like your house is dirty or unorganized. It's more like you might be attracted to like a little vintage piece of artwork or something and it'll be, you know,

maybe chipped up and knocked around and not, and I'd be like, oh no, but it's got chips and not, you know, dense in it, you're like, but that's what I like about it. And I like things to be like more, you know, I like, you know, vintage things or antiques, but I like them. But you want to be refurbished.

I like them to be more like in better shape and you are totally good with something just like falling apart. I know. Because it looks cool. Okay, so that's one way we're different. Do you think we're different socially? Oh yeah.

Why? Because I'm not social. Oh! I was when I was your age. But you're definitely outgoing. But I don't, I get bored at like, you know, social events where it's maybe like, I have trouble hearing people talk, you know, like I can't, if there's a lot of people talking, like, so it's hard to have a conversation.

So I feel kind of like I start to like close up because I, I can't understand what anyone's saying. And then I'm like, I'm just like, just shaking my head and I'm just like, you know, and so I feel that's awkward to me, you know? But that's also such an interesting perspective because it's like, it's so true that in most social situations, a party, a club, like, you know,

a bar, it's fucking loud. It is. It's just loud and it's not fun to talk. To talk, it actually is awful. Like, I, you know, when I go out, and as we know, I've been doing it a lot because I call my mom when I'm on the way home and it's like two in the morning, three in the morning,

four in the morning, it's been six in the morning and I'm driving home because I don't drink. It's so fun getting the tea though. Really? Well yeah, you get the tea. Yeah, how good is the tea? It's awesome. It's so good, so fun.

This is totally a detour, now we're going in a completely different direction, but share the best tea I've ever given you. Well, what was the story that I got in the car and I called you and I told you about where you're like, this is the juiciest shit yet? It's usually like when you've seen somebody that you haven't seen in a long time

or you met somebody for the first time and you just like really hit it off and it would be like an unexpected person. Boy drama. Yeah, boy drama is always the best, right? Like that's like, Oh, man, like, who would have thought that would have happened or, you know, that they that they would have said that or, you know, it usually has to do with boys. It's usually like where you've seen you've been out and about and you've seen,

seen someone and then you see stuff. Yeah, that was kind of the best one. I know what you're alluding to. You know what I mean? In LA, I think it's like, you're always gonna see people out that you have a history with, whether it's an old friend or an ex or whoever.

And it's like, I think those are the best stories for you probably because you know these people, you've met these people, and then now it's interesting to see what, but that is the problem. Or sometimes, you know, like I'll have been a fan of maybe it's a music artist or, you know, an actress or a model or something like that, and you've become friends with them. And then you come home and then you tell me stories about like an evening out where you've run into them and then the conversations you've had or whatever.

And I'm like so riveted. That's it. And why? Because it's so fun. It's like someone that you maybe, you know, watch them on TV when you were little. And so I've watched these people grow up to be, you know, successful, whatever, artists, musicians, whatever they are. And so it's just kind of fun to hear the local stuff that happens when you're out and you run into these people.

What they're really like. What they're really like or like, you know, whatever. It's just so fun. I honestly feel like I go out and be social for the debrief after with you and my friends. It's like, that's what it's about. I kind of like wake up automatically at like 2 a.m. And just go, oh oh she's still out

Yeah, okay Well, maybe she'll and then like if I think you're in a odd place sometimes like the Locational seem a little odd and I'll check in and just say you good just to make sure you're good But also to let you know that I'm awake so that you get in the car you can call me Speaking of you tracking me on my phone,, you are you're an anxious parent. Yes Why don't you sort of dig into how you manage being a deeply anxious person and having a child? Well, I mean, I didn't even want to have a child because I knew That I would be such an anxious parent.

Um, so it was almost like, oh my gosh, I am not the kind of person that should be having kids because I'm going to be, I'm going to be worried about the baby inside my tummy, you know, worried about the baby coming out. Okay. I'm going to be worried about everything. Right. And so, you know, and then the experience I went through, which was for the most part, you know,

other than being like nauseous for the six, the first six months or whatever, everything was fine, except for, you know, you coming out with an emergency C-section, that was like, you had to come out that way. That's okay. I know, so reflective of my personality with you. Oh my gosh.

Afterwards, you know, we go to nurse and you'd fall, you'd constantly fall asleep. And then the nurses would come in and they would be like jamming your face, you know, like to nurse and then you'd be arching your back like, no! Immediate gravel. And then I was like, I was like, oh man, we are in for it. This girl is like, is going to be a force to be reckoned with and here you are. Thank you so much. So the worry just went on and on and on.

You were anxious and you definitely needed to know where I was at all times and you definitely were like, you know, you had a leash on, a metaphorical leash on, cause some parents actually do the little leash on the kids. You had a metaphorical leash on me. It wasn't like I was a complete loose cannon,

but you did kind of let me be a loose cannon. I mean, like when I look back, it's like, holy shit, like, you know, after school, I'd go to the, you know, the youth center. These kids and I would just be running around town doing whatever and we were like on our own, you know? And when I got a little older and I started partying and I was like experimenting with drinking and stuff like that, you and my dad both were like, it's okay, just keep us in the loop. And I think that that's exactly the way to do it

because I think it prevented me from ever rebelling in that way and wanting to overdo it, which I think was phenomenal. But it's like, how did you let me go then? You kind of let me go, even though you're so anxious. First of all, I trusted you. Like I didn't feel like you were going to make a bad decision. Everybody makes bad choices, right?

That's how we learned. But I didn't have the capability of tracking you until you were a little bit older, until you had your first iPhone basically, because I feel like the other ones, we didn't do that. And it was, it's because my intentions or my thoughts about tracking you or keeping an eye on you. It wasn't about what you were doing or who you were hanging out with. It was just more about being able to rescue you if you were in a bad situation. It's about knowing where you were so that if there was

an earthquake, then I could just come pick you up. So that's where you were more anxious about rather than what I was actually was actually doing. I was never worried about what you were doing. It was interesting. It was never about Controlling what you were doing who you were hanging out with it was about keeping you just knowing that I could come and save you somehow Because you didn't like it at first No, I mean, I think it's invasive But then once I said, Hey, you know, but if you're in a situation and you can't call me or something, then I can, I can literally drive to wherever you are. And, and I can pick you and your friends up and, and get you guys out of a bad situation or maybe

a situation you don't want to be in, which happened, It happened where you guys would be in a house party in the cops would kind of be. Cops kind of done. And you guys would be hiding in the bushes. So scary. And you're like texting me and you don't even know where you are. There's no address because,

and you don't even know what street. And I literally could, I would just jump in the car and I would find you that way. I know, I was like, I literally, the amount of times we got the cops got called on us. Like I wonder if you that way. I know, I was like, I literally, the amount of times we got, the cops got called on us. Like I wonder if that's normal. Like did you have the cops called on parties

when you were a kid? Oh yeah, okay. But we never, you know, we'd all get word and then everybody would split and hide until they drove away and then you would, you know. I remember like the Uber account, it's like my Uber account and you guys would go and then you guys would split, you know, the Uber account, it's like my Uber account, and you guys would go and then you guys would split the Uber or whatever.

My rating went to shit when you guys would go to, what was it, Shoreline? Yeah. Shoreline for context was this music venue. Not super close to where I lived, like 40 minutes to an hour. And it was where there was $50 country concerts, country shows, and all the high schoolers would go and get super drunk and just like make out with each other. And it was really weird in retrospect. I think it was so good for you to have the independence

because I feel like- Completely agree. I mean, even though you might've been drinking and making out with boys and doing all these things that if the parents really knew, they would be like, oh, that's not allowed. Well, that's the thing. I do think like, you can't rob your child of like,

experimentation, like you can't like, but within like, you know, but you, there's a responsible way to do it. And I think you, I think you did it. I mean, if you were messing around with like scary drugs and stuff, or like hooking up with 40 year old you, I think you did it. I mean, if you were messing around with like scary drugs and stuff or like hooking up with 40 year old men, I'd be like, absolutely not.

Yeah, that's, yeah. You know what I mean? But you guys were all with each other. You guys had been around each other since you were like in fourth grade or fifth grade or even younger. Some of you even knew each other as toddlers. So it was like, I didn't feel like you were doing anything

abnormal at all. But to an extent, you have to let your kids touch the stove to know that it's hot. Right. While keeping the leash on those still too. It's like, you were in control of the situation enough where it's like I, and you also educated me enough to a point where you were like, she's not, it's, she's not going to get hurt. She's not taking anything to a level where it's, she's not gonna get hurt. Like we're not, she's not taking anything to a level where she's fine, you know?

I didn't feel like any of it was dangerous. If I did, I probably would have said no, but I never felt, I felt like you were smart. You were also like nervous and worried. So you weren't gonna be like, you know. I wasn't totally cool and badass. I was like so scared of everything. You've never been reckless and that's a thing. That's a difference. I've never snuck out. I feel like so scared of everything. You've never been reckless. And that's a thing.

That's a difference. I've never snuck out. I feel like I'm the only kid that never. I know. Do you think my personality was set when I was born? Or do you think that you and my dad influenced? Yeah, like do you believe this is actually, let's take me out of the equation. Do you believe that personality is innate or do you think personality is developed through parenting

or do you think it's a combination of both? I think it's a combination of both, but like you came out a rebel 100%. And I saw that from the get go from the very, I didn't understand it the way I do now. Like I think different people wrote books on personality types and there was like personality quizzes and stuff. And so one of the ones I really liked narrows in on four different personality types

or tendencies that we have. I remember it because it was right around the time you started high school. And that's when I figured out your personality type, my personality type, it's very simple. What's your personality type and what's mine? So the four tendencies they call them is the upholder, the questioner, the rebel and the obliger.

And you're pretty much a rebel through and through. Like there's overlap obviously on every single one. But for me, I am 100% one of those people who will take care of everyone else. You're the obliger? Yeah, before I take care of myself, right? Getting better, hopefully about that. But you have no accountability. So you're basically held accountable by outside forces or outside people, right? So when it comes to work, you know, just work yourself to death and to the bone and dig yourself in a hole because you are gonna, you know, do what other people are asking you to do because you want to you don't want to let anybody down.

You you're gonna rebel against, you know, what everyone is asking because it's deeply rooted in you. It's, there isn't even any explaining it. It just is what it is, right? But you have a little bit of other stuff in the, so do I. For sure. Yeah. I do feel like I definitely have pieces of all of those though when I think about it. Like definitely I am rebellious, but I also think I can be a people pleaser and just be

like, I will do anything for everybody. And then I also think I can prioritize myself and be really selfish. But I think some of that though comes from the parenting styles, you know, like where you're saying, did I come out that way? Or did, because I feel like there's things that I see you do that come from situations that happen when you were younger where I might have parented a little harshly or we've talked about this before, reactive parenting has caused, I don't wanna say issues,

but you kind of have like PTSD maybe, I don't know what it is, but you know what I'm saying? Well, it's very self-aware for you as a mom to say I did something that might have fucked you up. Yeah, but it's a very rare thing, special. Really? Because I don't know. I feel like all parents feel guilty about something. Because here's the thing, it's like the thing is every parent is going to fuck up. Okay? And it's about being able to apologize. Like Lord knows when I'm a parent, God, I don't know what I'm gonna be wrong,

but I will do something wrong. You know what I mean? Like it's just how it is. But I mean- We all do, cause we, you just, you're learning as you're going kind of. It's not like, you know, I don't think any of us are prepared or know,

I don't care how many classes you take. I don't, I did all that stuff and it didn't matter. You came out so opposite of me. And so, it's like, okay, sweetie, it's time to brush your teeth. No, yes, we have to brush your teeth because you don't wanna have rotten teeth and you don't wanna go to sleep.

And then it's cool. And then there's me pinning you down on the floor of your bedroom going, we're going to brush your teeth. And you're like, no, no, no. And it's like, yes, yes, yes. And we're like power struggling through life until I realized who you were.

And it was by that point though, all that reactive parenting had already taken place. To me, when I think of reactive parenting, it's like a more emotional tone. It's like a more, it's a more elevated tone. It's more of there's anger, you know, there's emotion. It's like, it's, but it's also cutting off children and not hearing them, you know, like being really emotional about something or snippy and not giving a child a chance to say, Hey, wait a minute, I have something to say about that. No,

you just need to go brush your teeth and go to bed. You know, it's like, but wait, I have something to say. No, you just, you know what I mean? And that happened. Yeah. And that is something that I'll probably never be okay with. Like it's just, you know, because it hurts. And it's like, because I see you overcompensating sometimes because I think that influenced, you know what I mean? And it's kind of sad. No, it's not sad. It is because you go, I just, especially with say like in relationships with like friends

or boys, and it's like, no, no, no, no, don't do that. I caused that for you. Don't do that. Don't like be sort of more of a pushover or be like too agreeable or be like- Right. Or not feel like or hesitate to speak your mind because you were shut down as me being a reactive parent in that parenting style kind of shut you down in a way. So you felt like you weren't gonna be heard

or that you couldn't speak up for yourself. And so I've seen you do it in relationships, whether it's just friendships or, you know, where the other person may not be the best person for you to be around because of their- So then they bring out that side of me. So then not that they would ever, you know, maybe even consciously take advantage of that view,

but that dynamic comes out. And that's where, so one time I was, you know, it was like, it was a real, and it wasn't even that long ago. I saw it on Instagram and it was somebody acting out a reactive parenting scenario. And I went, oh, no, I was that parent for a while. And then I sent it to you and I was like, Emma,

oh my God, I was that parent. And I think this is why you do this thing or do these different things. And I wanted you to be aware of it. So you would say, wait a minute, I don't have to do that. I don't have to do that. I have a voice and I need you to be aware of it. So you would say, wait a minute, I don't have to do that. I don't have to do that. I can, I have a voice and I need to be heard and I don't need to hold back just because

of something that happened to me when I was a kid that influenced the way I am with everyone else in my life. Like I'd much rather you recognize that and me go down for it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'll go down for it just to help you see the person you need to be. Yeah, but ultimately that is phenomenal parenting though. Like, well, you never stopped being a parent, right?

No. And it's like, OK, yeah, that was like a rough patch, you know? And it was, and it definitely formed me in a way. I mean, every single little thing that happened when, and it definitely formed me in a way. I mean, every single little thing that happened when I was a kid formed me in a way, you know, also feeling like, like I can call you at any time and talk to you about anything and you're never going to judge me and you're always going to like, you know, you're not going to get mad at me. Like on that side of things, that formed me in a way where now I'm not afraid of being myself as much. Yeah. But I do think that being a good parent is being selfless

enough with your child, taking your ego out of it, being selfless enough with your child to say, I fucked up. This is how I think it fucked you up. And I'm sorry. And let's work through it together so that you can heal from that, I can heal from that and we can all blossom. Because at the end of the day if it's not that, it's probably something else. I do think in order to be a good parent, you kind of have to let your ego go. I agree because that's why you're able to now to see this TikTok about how you were, how you parented in a way that you're not proud of and to send

it to me and say, I'm sorry. Yeah. That like the, you can't do that if your ego's in it and you're like, no, no, no, I have ego and being a good parent, a perfect parent. But your dad and I have talked many times about this. It's like, you know, once you have a kid, you go out the window. Okay. It's not about you anymore. You have this little person and you gotta give it your all

and make sure that they're safe, happy, you know, and whatever. It's not about, you know, raising the smartest or the cutest or the most talented. It's just about, we've talked about this so many times. We gave you the opportunity to be you and we had respect for you as a little human. And we wanted, you know, you to develop into whatever you were going to

be, not who we are, who you are, you know, and I think that's where a lot of parents are like, Oh, no, no, no, we don't talk about that. We don't talk about this, or we don't get, you know, boy crazy, or we don't, you know, we don't say this word, we don't, you know, it's like, but you know what I mean? It's such a funny example to use because nine times of the time I'm calling you, it's about a, yeah. Right, it's about all of those things,

which is just totally normal. Whereas other parents, I think really try to control, you know, that kind of stuff. And it's like, why though? Is it because you're worried about looking bad because your kids are boy crazy girls and boys and everybody's crazy about everybody. You know what I mean?

At a certain age, it's like, so why do you care how that's gonna make you look? But also even like college, like, oh, my kid needs to go to this college or oh, my kid needs to get this job. It's like, it does really get, it's terrible on both ends. It's terrible for the child because they feel like

they can't discover what they wanna do with them, their lives themselves. But then it's terrible for the parent because I'm so sorry, you're gonna get disappointed. You're gonna get fucking disappointed. Or if you put rules into place like that, we had conversations, cause you felt like you had to go to this college or that college or a good college or whatever. And it's like, no, wait a minute,

like you can do whatever you want. You're in the driver's seat, you know, and it doesn't, no judgment here, you know, that's why you're doing what you're doing. Because It's interesting though, because how rare is it for a parent to know this is so backwards. How often is the kid like, no, I need to go to college, but something inside me telling me I You're not gonna go and and the parents are like don't go What is that? It's crazy how the gut instincts, you know really can't kick in and because

Your dad and I, it wasn't about us. It was about you and about you being happy, healthy, figuring things out. It wasn't about like, oh, well, if she doesn't go to Harvard, then we're going to look like dumbasses or something like it just, you know, it didn't matter to us. You know what I mean? But also I went to FIDM. He went to a few years of, you know, so it's like, well, right, it's like who are y'all to talk? Right, like, but it's like, you could say,

well, don't do what I did, go to, you know, get for your education and, you know, reach for the stars or whatever. But you don't have to reach for the stars on a certain path. And you had made it really clear that that path was everyone's doing the same thing. Everybody looks the same way. And I look around the room and every face looks the same. And I'm like driving going, oh my god, she's freaking me out right now. Like, I don't even, what does she mean by that? Like, I thought, you know, because you were so much,

so much more advanced, you know, than I realized. And you're telling me this on the way home from school one day when you were in high school. I was going very Shakespeare. I was going very poetic. I was going very abstract art in the car with you that day. And I was like shaking going, oh my God, do I need to like have a, you know,

like sign her up with a psychologist? Like, I don't know what to do. And then it was like, to like have a, you know, like sign her up with a psychologist? Like, I don't know what to do. And then it was like, we went to the, you know, college counseling and you walked out of there just shaking her head and I'm going, I don't know what's going wrong. I will say that was when I sort of, like my, I started having very intuitive feelings at that point.

And, well, you said you didn't see yourself graduating from high school, walking the line, and it freaked you out. Remember that? Well, that was what was so weird. And to this day is so weird with graduating high school in the proper way, right? Like walking on the line. Like, you know, I couldn't see it. I could not see me in college. I wanted both of those things. You know I was a very studious, academically driven child. You were so anxious about perfection in that setting.

Right, because it was something you would say, I gotta get into the best colleges. I have to have those. I just have to, I have to. And we're like, but why do you feel like you have to do that? It's so weird. The whole thing is weird in retrospect because it's like,

most of the time, a kid's not going to Catholic all-girls school, unless their parents force them to go. Right. Like, I wanted to go. Yeah. I wanted to go because I was like, this is going to help me prep for college. Yeah.

So that I can go to a good college because I really think what it was rooted in was feeling like obviously the Bay Area the Silicon Valley. It's a bunch of tech families. It's a lot of wealthy kids Yep, and we weren't necessarily there. We weren't up there with that. We were totally fine Yeah, but we weren't there right I mean to me. I was like I feel inferior Yeah in a way which was completely fucking ridiculous in retrospect. No, but that's normal. But I mean, as a kid who doesn't understand. And I wanted to, I mean, and as even as a parent,

I wanted so badly to provide that, a house with whatever, and then whatever kind of car you wanted when you turned 16. And I wanted to provide all that. And that made us who we are today. But at the time, my heart hurt to not be able to provide that for you. But when I looking back, I'm glad I did meet- Me fucking too.

Right. So I don't regret any of it. But at the time, it was really hard because it was like, I was constantly looking for the little house, even just rent that would be affordable. And I think growing up how I grew up, I also felt inferior to the kids that had the married parents, the brothers and sisters in the house with the two dogs and the this and the that and the two trucks and the car to go to town and you know, all the stuff like I did not have any of that either. You know, and but I look back and I go, oh man, my childhood is so interesting. Yeah, it's like dynamic.

Right. But also like when you're a kid, you probably have experienced this like when you're a kid, you take everything for granted. You know what I'm saying? Like you don't realize how good you have it until you're older and you're able to see things from a worldly scale, right? Like I was under the impression that like,

you know, my childhood was much more challenging than it was because I was comparing, you know, myself to like these rich kids who have like tech parents, millionaire parents, they're everywhere. And I'm comparing myself to that. I only made it worse by going to Catholic All-Girls School. The only way that we were able to do that

was by getting financial aid. So then, but then I'm around it even more and I was just so cynical. I was like, you know, like fuck these people. Cause I'm around, like I'm around all this. I'm around actually what I realized now was extreme wealth. Like that is an unusual, you know, sort of setup. Okay. You know, it's not normal for, for, you know, 15 year old girls

to be getting like a Dior bag for Christmas. Like that's very weird. Right. Like in most places that's not normal. The car of their dreams, brand new for their 16th birthday. And then they crash it and then they get a new one the next week. That's normal. See, I just had no clue.

I had no context. Yeah. Like it makes you, cause it, cause you look back and you, like I so appreciate my, my upbringing and my childhood and all the different stuff. And also too, even yours, even though I want me too. I was obsessive about, like I said, getting the cute little house that you could have your friends over

and not be embarrassed because it was like, I actually, it was so important. It was so important. It was so important. And I'm so... And it was cute inside. It was super cute. No, it important. And I'm so- And it was cute inside. It was super cute. It was cute.

Okay, well, let's just describe it. It was like, basically we had this apartment that we lived in for years and years and years. It was like 10 years. It was like 10 years. And I was mortified of this apartment. I'm so sorry. It's okay.

No, no. It was, listen, I, in retrospect now, I'm like, my mom put a roof over my head. We had two bedrooms in there, which is like incredible. We had, I had my own space, you know. Awesome closet. It was clean always. It was like decorated, so cute inside.

You know, it was, it was more, I could not be more grateful for it now, but at the time, let me tell you. So all the neighbors were a little creepy. No, we had some cute ones. The ones across from us upstairs were awesome. But the ones below us were awful. Awful.

In absolute feud with them. Like, it was insane. I had to tiptoe walking around the house because if not, they would start hitting the fucking ceiling with a broom and they'd be like, shut the fuck up! And they were always on some sort of drug, okay? And our apartment smelled like weed. And like my mom calling the police all the time. Oh God, it was awful.

They'd call the police on us, we'd call the police on them for both of us. And I think reactive parenting came from that. Like, I'm not trying to make excuses, but that situation, I look back and I go, I should have just gotten us out of there because I would be so short tempered because of that. Yeah, but it was hard because I lived, like we had, I should have just gotten us out of there because I would be so short-tempered because it was hard because I lived like we had I was going to school there and it was like gonna be emotionally challenging to get me out of that school and like

You know, you're like By the way, we had we were rent controlled there. Oh, yeah, the rent was so amazing You could walk to school. So there are some good things about it Like you could walk to school or I could pop you over or walk you to school. There came a point where you wanted to walk to school by yourself, it gave you that independence. But how often did your friends come with you after school? Cause we were one block away from down, down and up.

And you guys would go over and get whatever Starbucks or whatever. I mean, and it was the pad. You guys all hung out and you guys would, you know, take little videos out of the window and out and you guys would, you know, take little videos out of the window and of like friends walking by, you know, because it was so fun. Yeah, it was actually like location, location, location. It was interesting because like I was always very embarrassed to bring other kids over

because, you know, of course, naturally I'm comparing. This apartment to, you know, most of them had gorgeous houses. Yeah, two story, you know, yeah, six bedrooms. But I was like, but what was interesting was, most of them had gorgeous houses or whatever. Yeah, two-story, you know, six bedrooms. But I was like, but what was interesting was that most of them actually did end up preferring hanging out at our place because it was cozy and it was in, and there was a, you know, a special energy there. And again, like, I, I am so appreciative of that. We went off on a crazy tangent because, and I'm glad we did, because that was a phenomenal topic. But crazy tangent, and I'm glad we did,

because that was a phenomenal topic. But all of this was because I was saying, it made no sense for me to be like, I need to go to a Catholic all-girls school because there was a lot of friction to get me there. It wasn't like, oh, this is a seamless, easy thing, like whatever. But did we ever do anything easy?

No. No, but I had this gut intuition there. I was like, I need to go to this Catholic all girl school. And then it was like, you know, I knew I had to go there. Right. But then when it came to going to college, I like knew it was not gonna happen. And it was, but it was going against my logical brain.

And it was so weird. And to this day though, it's like that happens. Like that just happens with me. Like even with friendships, like I'll be like, I don't see this in two years. Like even if I'm like, we're having so much fun, I want to be friends with this person forever, but I'll close my eyes and I'll be like, I don't see it. I, but then I'll have friends where I close my eyes and I can't see it. That's a more recent development. I don't think, like, you know, where it's like, whoa, I actually am seeing these people

in my head for a long time. But same thing with even dating, like every time, oh, this is like torturous. When you are, I'm like, I'll be so in love with someone, I think at least, whether it's real love or not, it depends, it could be an illusion, it could be not, but I'll be so convinced that I'm in love with this person for the right reasons and that this is something that's gonna go the distance. And I'll close my eyes and I'll be so convinced that I'm in love with this person for the right reasons and that this is something that's gonna go the distance.

And I'll close my eyes and I'll be like, it isn't. I know it isn't. But it goes against what I want to be true. Right. And you kind of wanna like go, well, I could be wrong. And I do that. And then every time I do, I get fucked over. Yeah.

So I'm learning now that. But that's such a gift. I mean, that's something to pay attention to. Do you have that? I feel like we all have a gift for intuition. And so say you're talking about a situation with a relationship, friendship, whatever. I'm not saying specifics.

And it comes in and I might just have an intuition about somebody, and I'll say it, and I'm usually right. It's kind of freaky. It's kind of freaky. It's kind of like mom mode. Like mom, yeah, mom's different. Mom's kind of no. And maybe it's just because I've been around the block multiple times. People always say that like mom's always no.

And it's so interesting because... Fuck. Like you have nailed it on the head with like everyone like you do know like you you immediately I actually need to start asking you more like Because I'll give you my opinion I know and it's not even judgment on someone like it's not even like oh Those are bad people don't hang out with them or something about ability. It's not yeah, it's not even like, oh, those are bad people. Don't hang out with them or something. It's not the compatibility with me. Yeah, it's not even about. Yeah, it's mostly it's it's like a dynamic and like, you know, I've just come to that place where I pay attention more.

And I think you've just been more in tune. I mean, I think I might be in tune, but yes, I ignore it. Well, no, I think what happens with you though, is like because you have anxiety, you will overanalyze those things sometimes and then you get worried about it. An example would be like an intrusive thought, right? And then all of a sudden,

you'll start to make something out of that because you'll go, oh, that popped in my head. And is that, okay, but is that mean it's real? Or is it just because it was an intrusive thought? So you have this like, oh my gosh, you poor thing. Like it's really, but I have done that my whole life and I got a handle on that when I was in my older 20s. I'm getting better about it. I was probably even in my 30s when I got, when I was able to get a handle on that and figure out the tools, and you will, you'll get there.

But it sucks because you'll spend so much energy and time and lose a lot of sleep over this kind of stuff that you create yourself that 99.999% of the time never happens and so that's why I'm here to remind you because I've learned how to cope with that and talk myself out of it and it's been a blessing. I mean, I like thank God that you are as anxious as me. Like imagine you were sort of a child

that you grew up just as anxious as me but you didn't have a parent who understood. Right, there's a certain feeling that you have You grew up just as anxious as me, but you didn't have a parent who understood. Right. There's a certain feeling that you have when you're the anxious kid that's worried about a lot of things because you're so distracted by the worry and that dark cloud falling you around that you just don't, you know, it's hard to, to like, let go and have a good time.

And when you, like, I just, you know, I, I see some of that in you. And so I try to do whatever I can to say, Hey, I did that. And look, you know, it's so much, it's so, it is such a gift. It's so, it is such a gift, like to have somebody to call, you know, when you're like, I'm experiencing this, this, this, this, and that. What's happening? Right. And to have somebody say, you're not dying, you're not losing your mind, you're totally fine, this is normal, and it's happened to me.

Yeah. I mean, I really think that one of the most powerful resources anxious people can have is just someone, anyone, that has experienced it before, that's a key, key, key component. Needs to understand it. You have to, yeah. Because if you talk about it with somebody who doesn't, they'll make you feel crazy, actually.

They'll make you feel, you know, they'll completely, the way that their tone towards you will never be empathetic enough. Right. Only from somebody who has experienced deep anxiety, only can they, like, that's at least my experience. Well, I never had, I never had anybody. I know. And no one.

I never had anyone. I know. And no one, I never had anyone to understand it. Not a parent, not a friend, no one. No one understood what I was going through. And it wasn't even like, well known, like panic disorder and anxiety, generalized anxiety and panic disorder was just not very commonly talked about or addressed. Or in most people, if they did have it,

they were on anti-anxiety medicine, which was not an option for me. And so, but nobody understood what I was feeling. And so, until I finally did meet work with somebody who did and they gave me this workshop thing and I did it twice over and that's how I was able to get the tools that I have and thank goodness have them to share with you and to understand it is just, you know.

That's what it is. I've noticed with anxiety is like once you understand it and that's what's making it easier for me now, like knowing that it's normal and it's gonna pass and that it's not like something is very, very wrong. Right. I will say though, I've noticed in you recently, you're making friends in the neighborhood. Oh yeah.

My mom moved to Los Angeles, California with now she's not my neighbor, but she lives pretty close. And so, you know, we're LA girls now, obviously, but you like, I feel like you moving to LA has been really good for you. I feel like you have so many friends. I feel like you like, I'll call you and you're like, I'm on a walk with my friend. And I'm like, what?

That's weird. You're like, wait a minute, you're always there for me. You're like, I'm going to this like dinner party or something. And I'm like, oh, what? That's weird. I know, it's kind of crazy. But it's amazing, I think you're actually, I think living in LA, you know,

you're coming out of your shell and I think you're learning to have a better work-life balance and I honestly think it's never too late to figure that out and you know, you're at a place now where financially it's like, maybe you can give yourself a little bit. You've worked so hard for so many fucking years, so fucking hard for so many years.

And like, you know, and you've, it's like, I think at a certain point it'll click for you and you'll be like, I think I do get to celebrate now. And that can happen, that can just happen whenever, there's no timeline where it's like, oh, I missed out, I didn't do it soon enough, so now I have to live this way for the rest of my life.

It's like, hello, no. I'm trying, I'm doing, it's baby steps. Well, I'm here to be like, okay, mommy, time to get out, it's getting weird. Time to get out. Mommy, you're being so boring. This is so weird. But you know, it's funny, like it's like

back in the day, it's like, oh, you know, the different things that adults did to go have fun is just not the stuff that I like, you know. So now it's like having, you know, taking out time with these new friends that I have to try new restaurants or just have them over for coffee or go take like, you know, take the kids for long hikes to the top of the hill, you know, like things that are just more in my, so I'm just more lined up with people that do, that like to do the same things. Yeah. And so it's kind of funny because I like moved here and I've never looked back and it's been so fun. It's been so fun. It's been so fun.

I, you know what? Like I actually think we love LA. I love LA. Everyone loves LA. I do. No, it's funny because like you know I hated LA for so long. I'm actually like fucking into LA right now. Me too.

I'm loving it. No, I'm not kidding. Like I would, when I would come down and help you at the different locations you were at before, I was kind of like, I don't think so. I lived in terrible areas. Like I was just like, I don't think I could do it. And then like, I got, you know, when I got kind of stuck here, you know, helping to get the house finished and all that.

And it just got a routine. My house. Yeah. Got a routine down. It was like, oh, well, I already kind of lived here. So, and I like, and it just got a routine. My house, yeah. Got a routine down, it was like, oh, well I already kind of lived here, so, and I liked it, I liked it, and then it was like, I've never looked back. I know, it's so fun.

I love it, I love it. I'm not like, I just, I'm giddy with how much nature, I get to be in like all the critters. She, okay. We love rats, like pet rats. We love them. And she had a pet rat in college and she would carry it to class in her pocket and it would sit in her little sweatshirt pocket and it would crawl up on her shoulder and sleep on

her shoulder. And this was her little best friend. And when I got older, then my mom was like, let's get Emma a rat. I wanted a rat. So I had pet rats. We both have a deep fondness for rats. Top rodent, I'd argue for the both of us. Although my mom also loves squirrels.

That's her top rodent. My top rodent is probably rats. I actually love them and I think that they're incredibly smart and I'm not, listen, I don't need to see a big like two foot New York rat, right? Like I'm not hungry for that experience, but like a little cute female pet rat, obsessed. Long story short, my mom loves rats. I love rats. She also used to feed the squirrels at her work and then she also, and then she, on top of that, she's obsessed with the salamanders in, that are

all around, or no, it's not salamanders. What is it? It's lizard. Sorry, she's a lizard friend. Western fence lizards and southern southern alligator lizards. Oh my God. There is so many cool lizards at my house. You guys like, no, it is so cool.

Like some of them are like super turquoise and some of them are just like, you know, there's all sorts of little baby ones. Oh my gosh. You're definitely an animal person. Like it's very special to see. Well, that's why I would rather be with the animals than be out and be social. See, you're one of those that needs to wear the shirt that's like, I like my dog more than people.

Like that's you actually. Like when it's like the picture of the person laying on the floor talking to the dog when they're at a party. That's me. Classic Sophia. Classic mommy mode. Yep. Can't help it. Sorry. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think.

And I'm not going to apologize for it. Don't. No. I think the final conclusion is my mom likes any critter that's within a 10 foot radius of her house more than she likes me. And that's okay. And as a relationship. And right now, because you're older and you're now an adult,

like they can take priority over you sometimes and you don't like it. No, I actually kind of been relieved. I'm like, oh, you know what? She's having fun. And I can call you at 2 a.m. while you're cuddling with the critters. Right.

Like it's a perfect balance what we have. I know. Well, mommy, thank you for coming on the show. You're welcome, it was fun. Did you have fun? Yeah. Did you come back? Oh my God, totally.

Okay, cool. I feel like we could talk forever. I know. Yeah. And we will, you'll come back and next time we'll talk about, we'll really dig into the rats. Oh God, yeah, no, no. And I should probably stop saying God, I keep saying that.

Oh really? You can say God. Oh, you can say fuck You can say shit. You can say God. You can say damn I ask okay good titties. Okay titties and ass cooter vagina peanut like Let it go loose That should be like my warm-up before I record as I make everyone go down the list of like, you know, of like, ooh, that's a little spicy words.

Spicy, I like that. And you did amazing. Can't wait for you to come back. I know, I can't wait to come back.