Are You A Charlotte? - BS Bagels with Paget Brewster... (S4 E7 "Time and Punishment")

Episode Date: April 27, 2026

Criminal Minds star Paget Brewster is a massive Sex and the City fan and has watched the series FIVE times!She reveals the Charlotte quote she thinks about all the time and why it's so important.The BIG move that gave her the ick.  And, Kristin and Paget discuss the very talked about moment when Carrie sends Aidan over to help Miranda. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? Today, we are rewatching time and punishment, which is from season four, episode seven. And we have a super fun guest, Padgett Brewster, is on criminal minds for a really, really long time. And also so many other fun things. She was on friends. She had her own talk show called The Padgett Show. She has a lot of sex in the city knowledge, and she's a super fan.

So enjoy. Paget, thank you for joining us. It's so exciting. Thank you for having me. This is so exciting for me and a little scary. Oh, don't be scary. You and the show have had such a massive impact on my life that it's like, don't meet your heroes and I'm kind of scared.

But I'm so excited to be doing this. Thank you so much for asking me. Well, we're so excited to have you. And I mean, I just probably just start by telling us like when you say an impact on your life. Like, tell us what you mean. And also, like, have you also done other podcasts where you have broken down and just like that? Like, I need to hear all the different things. I did some friends of mine, Paul L. Tompkins and Janie Haddad Tompkins, did a podcast about and just like that. And they were, it was just them at home. They would have what they call weekend water.

So they would drink a little bit and do a podcast about and just like that. And I would listen to their podcast and be like, how do they not know about Ray? And like, they weren't, they, they weren't remembering every. And I've watched Sex in the City every episode, every season, five times through, twice just with my husband. So it's, it's, but I also think the show, Sex and the City opened doors for women acting at a time when it had really good. gone away. And so I've been able to maintain a career for 35 years. I'm 57. When I was 32, I thought, oh, it's over. Right. It's over. I saved as much money as I could. Exactly. But I think because of the success of sex in the city, it showed executives and networks and

writers that women could carry the show and do extremely well. And so I think it opened up casting for women over 35 suddenly. Which is amazing and wonderful. And I hope that it continues and could continue even more. Because sometimes from my perspective, I do remember when they were sending the script around, you know, and everyone was auditioning and whatnot,

that it was shocking, right? Like, oh, my God. You know, there's really no men, right? Like, that's how the script of the pilot looked. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. As opposed to, say, Melrose or, you know, where I had been, but there were equal men.

and women and it was super soapy, right? This was a new entity, a new version of a show, and it was very risky. And we did not know. We really did not know if it was going to work. I was talking to someone about this other day because I remember in the beginning, any press that wanted to talk to us, we would just be like, okay. And we didn't, like, we would just tell them everything in the beginning because we were just so desperate to get press, which is laugh out loud, funny now, right?

Of course. Yeah. You know, but at the time. Yeah, it was a totally different situation and different like world where we were in charge kind of. You know, the characters were in charge. As opposed to being on an equal men and women or mostly male and the women were wives, girlfriends, daughters, period. Yes, yes. But I think in the 70s and 80s, there were a lot of female shows like Alice and Golden Girls and Golden Girls.

and Golden Girl. But then into the 80s, designing women. But there had been Mary Tyler Moore, Rota. There had been all of these shows in the 70s and 80s. And it felt like the end of the 80s, beginning in the 90s, it stopped until you guys showed up. That's a good point. There was like a dead space for about seven years, I think,

where executives and networks were not doing shows primarily featuring women. Women were supporting. It's also about like, Who is the show for, right? So like Golden Girls designing women were for women, Murphy Brown, for women, right? I mean, for everyone, but for women. And in a way where you feel like, yes, you're honored as a consumer, right? You're honored as like someone who wants to buy things and whatever.

And we know all the statistics that women are a very powerful group of consumers. But for a while, that was kind of forgotten. And then when we came along, and this was kind of an annoying thing, but when we came along, you know, we had to really like fight hard in the beginning to, you know, first of all, just state what we were, right? Because people were super confused. Like, you know, are you prostitutes? Like, are you like what's happening?

Because of having sex in the title and they didn't know the column, right? So not everyone had the understanding, the basic understanding. I remember just like literally describing like, no, we all work. And, you know, I had someone asked me, I was wearing our hat, our first season. had and they thought that I was on real sex, which was like that late night HBO show. Oh, right. Yeah, that was, you know, kind of porn. It wasn't it like a, not a reality show.

Yeah, no, it was like real people. It was like real people and fetishes. Yes. Yeah. It was ahead of its time, okay, first of all. Yes. But that is not the show that we were trying to do, right? We would have to say, like, no, it's a comedy.

But then it wasn't a sitcom and there was no laugh track and there was no audience and it was single camera, but also. dromedy kind of, you know, we had very dramatic. It was a whole different entity. But the other thing that I feel now, I mean, now we have had wonderful shows like insecure. We have, I love L.A. You know, there are elements where you can say,

oh, yes, I think all of those were HBO. But it didn't spawn this kind of wider revival that I expected it to spawn in terms of like different women's voices on shows. Do you know? I felt like I was able to continue acting because of the success of sex in the city and that there was a greater creation of roles for women that were multidimensional and they had failings. Right.

I have to ask you, when did you start to feel like, oh, everyone gets it now? They know what we're doing and who we are. When did you feel secure that the show was successful and everyone got it and you and you guys had put this baby out into the world and it was and it was beloved? Yeah, third season. Third season. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. People laugh when I tell them. They were like, no, it was a big hit. No. I mean, it was we were, we were very known in New York, right? Because we were like getting all the actors that were on Broadway and we were making a big effort. and, you know, you had law and order and then you had us, right? So actors knew about us and New York City people knew about us,

but we didn't feel like the world knew about us. And I don't think that we expected the world to know about us. Like, we were going to do our best. You know, we were going to try to live up to the hopes that HBO had, right? You know, we wanted to do our job, right? But we never really expected, like, widespread success. So it was just kind of, you know, shocking. also kind of really in some ways hard to take in.

And I would say third season, because third season is when we got nominated for an Emmy, which we never, never, never, never, never thought what happened. Like, never thought what happened. Because Cable at that point was weird, right? Like, the Sopranos hadn't won yet. We had won our Golden Globe, and we were just like, like, deer in the headlight.

Like, what are we doing here? Like, literally, like, what planet have we landed on? Like, when they called our, our names, we were just like, what? We have to stand up in front of all this movie stars. Oh my God. You know what I mean? Like, it was just shocking and had rain that day of the Golden Globes.

So my hairs. Like, we were a hot mess. You know, we were like little children, like at the grown-up party. You know what I mean? Oh, my God. But then, and that was cool, right? But the Golden Globes were like their own weird entity. But we didn't really think that the Emmys who were definitely, you know,

the award for television, obviously, very main. stream, we didn't expect that to ever happen, much less third season. And I remember when my mom called me and I was like, oh, why are you calling me so early? Because we would work all night, right? She was calling me to tell me that we got nominated for Emmy. And I was like, you know what I mean? Wait a minute. Your mother, no one, your agent, your lawyer, your, she beat them. She beat them to it. Your mom beat everyone to it. She was very excited. She was very excited. You know what I mean? But yeah, she, she beat everybody to it. I did think that maybe my, mom was mistaken even.

Did you mean? Like I was like mom. Like what? Are you sure? And you know, this is the olden day flip phone cell phone, right? Where I was like, oh, no, someone else is calling. I don't even know how to click over. And then I realized, oh, no, it is actually, actually real.

Like, what the heck? Like, it's insane. But I didn't, even then, it was hard to really take it in. You know, it was hard to take it in to a lot of extent. Like, rewatching is really. really helping me to understand, like, what we created in a different way, right? Wow. Like, I loved what we did. I was, you know, extremely committed to what we were doing, right? And I love all of our writers and all of our actors. And, you know, I've been die hard

the whole time, right? But sometimes when you're out in the world and people have, like, such strong, strong feelings, I would be like, whoa. Oh. Yeah. You know, but now that I'm rewatching, first of all, each episode is so good. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. And then second of all, like I was traveling a bit and I took time off from rewatching. And then I came back and like the warmth that you feel when you watch it is real, you know? Like even for me, I got to kind of experience when people say like, oh, you're my comfort watch.

Oh, you're like my friends. I'm like, yeah. And obviously they are my friends. But still, I'm like, oh, I'm home and I can watch my show. You know, it's nice. Oh, my God. That's great. I didn't really fully get it before because I think I was, you know, you're just

trying to move forward to, right, and not get too stuck in the commentary, right? Because like, wherever there's good commentary, there's also bad commentary. And I didn't want to, I don't want to go too deep into it. But now I can really, you know, 30 years later, I can really appreciate it. Yeah. But there are other shows, I think, and I think you've been on all of them. Friends, Seinfeld, Sex and the City are series that you rewatch and you cannot believe every episode. You're like, wait a minute, this is the A, B, and C story?

Because in my memory, each story is its own episode. It's true. It's true. That's some writing, right? I mean, it's some good writing. Like, that's really what I come away with. It's crazy writing. episode that we're talking about is, well, this is huge for me because I choose my choice.

Oh my God. Classic. It's like a major part of, it's in my head. I would say I've said it either out loud or in my head minimum once a month, usually every week and in different ways in the way that Charlotte is saying defensively, I choose my choice. And it can be that is she convincing herself? Or is she convincing them and it can be armor?

Like, I choose my choice. It can be validation. Like that, just that sentence. I choose my choice. I know it's good. Okay, no, I don't want to go to Larry's birthday party. I don't have to go to Larry's birthday party and I choose my choice. That's right.

I need to stay home and cook that day. That's nice. I choose my choice. That's good. It's like a big. I had remembered that because I loved it, but I had not remembered the bigger picture that it's in, which is that the entire episode, I'm struggling, you know, Charlotte is struggling with the decision.

And also basically all of them are like, no. Like I had fully forgotten that. You know what I'm saying? Like I didn't really remember. In my mind, I remember a lot, but I don't always remember it chronologically correctly, right? Right. I would have put this later, you know, like in the fifth season or something. Like I thought it had to do with Harry or I don't know what I thought it had to do with.

I remember being, I remember filming it. and I remember being very nervous about it. Like there are some things that stand out to me because, you know, Charlotte is a very specific character, right? And she's not me, even though I know it's very confusing and it seems like it's me. I get it. Obviously, you're an actress who's played that character

for a very long time, which I want to talk about. So I'm sure you understand. But so like she's a part of me, but she's not really me, right? And so I live a very different life that is not so concerned with traditions, you know. And for her, for Charlotte, because these are her friends, you know, she might not have as much kind of, um, throaty defiance or whatever to them. Do you, do what I mean? So like my pitch is a little high, you know? And especially in the first coffee shop

scene where I'm talking to them about it. And I'm like, I'm just thinking that I'm going to quit my job. You know, I've noticed that, well, because I could and there's the pediatric unit. It is. Your voice is higher. My voice is higher. Usually the sign of insecurity or lying. And so the question is, are you? Are you? you're you're outstanding in this I I you're so great you're great in all of them but this really is like I was so excited when I got the email watch this and I'm like what I choose my choice because it it's such a great and and every storyline is great but but it is these tropes of Miranda not being able to relax and and so much so that her neck goes out She's shouting at you and what is the relationship with Aiden and Carrie?

And what does it mean to Charlotte to give up the gallery? And that's the tradition before we get to Harry later, which is now she chooses Judaism to be with the man she loves. And it's those traditions that then become a big. But there's Charlotte's not one-dimensional. There are moments where I can't remember what episode it is where Carrie is saying, you have Charlotte says something really profound and there's a carry voiceover of sometimes out of Charlotte's mouth comes the thing that is

right, the wisdom and then and then you say, is my hair too shiny today? Yeah, that's first season. That's first season. It was the first season. Yeah, that was one of my moments where I realized and I knew in my, I felt in my gut that Charlotte had so much potential for growth and change, right?

But that little encapsulated, you know, couplet basically with Carrie and the voiceover, that was it. I was like, that is it. Thank God they get it. You know what I'm saying? Like, we can go. We can go from this, you know? And it was so much fun because it's always fun with Sir Jessica, too, right?

Because we know each other so well. And I love that so much because it is, you can make fun of her. You know what I'm saying? Like she is ripe for making fun of. But at the same time, she's not really wrong. You know what I mean? And she's also earnest. Yes.

Charlotte is so earnest that you can't argue with her reasoning. I mean, her friends do. Right. Because they see marriage differently, individuality differently, careers differently. But yeah, I'm glad it was that early on. Yeah. Because I also being on, I've been on this show, Criminal Minds. I was off for four years, but I've been on it basically.

We're shooting season 20. Wow. in a month. Wow. But I don't remember episodes the way fans do. Right. So I remember things about episodes that you were working. You were working.

Right. There's no space in your brain because to make an hour-long show is five to eight, 15-hour days. Right. Oh, that's what we were doing too. Yeah. Oh, I know. I heard. Oh, I heard.

I heard. heard the wardrobe changes were, which I appreciate as a fan. I think all of fashion appreciates. The fact that, but that's a big turnaround. Scene by scene. You guys had to do like major work. We did. Right. It was like an hour show or like a movie every two weeks because we'd shoot two episodes at once. Do you guys do that? Or you're just one? Okay, right. We had to crossboard because of locations, right, in the city. So we would have one director who'd be doing two. And it wasn't that bad because, like, they were two consecutive.

So it wasn't that hard. You don't know what I'm saying? That's why it was more like shooting an hour, right? Because even though you did have, like, one storyline and one and one storyline and the other, they were, they did make sense together, right? They were related. So it's not like you shot 10 episodes, like Block shot 10 episodes. No, no.

That would be nightmarish. Episode four and episode five. So you at least know where your character. Yes. Okay. That makes sense. Also, they would have a plan every season. And Michael Patrick would sit us down and tell us our plan, our emotional arc, so that you knew kind of the bigger picture, which was, of course, incredibly kind and wonderful.

And I didn't realize that all shows didn't do that. All shows do not do that. Right. Our showrunner does that on criminal minds. But that just started, you know. I don't know, five, six years ago. Interesting. Yeah, that is unusual.

Right. And thank God. It's so helpful as an actor because then you know if something is like of higher importance that, okay, I need to dig deeper for this scene, even though I'm just mentioning something, this is a deeper thing that I desperately want, the character desperately wants, or if maybe it's just a little minor thing. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And if you were just reading each script, you wouldn't know, because of course in our show also, now we're into the longer relationships, but in the beginning there were all these guys that were just coming through. And the only time that I can remember that I had to reshoot something was from the first season very early on, like maybe episode two or three,

where it's so embarrassing. This guy wants the, it's the, I don't want to be the misses up the butt scene. Yes. Oh, God, help us. And so to me, I'd been an acting class for a decade, right, or more before this. And, you know, they all talk about stakes,

Right, like your stakes have to be so high. Right? Yeah. And for comedy, that's like strangely important, right? Because how do you get that level of behavior? Deep stakes, right? So I was teary when I'm telling the guy, like, I don't want to do it. And Darren comes to me and he's like, you don't care.

And I'm like, what? I don't care. What? What? And he goes, oh, there's another guy around the corner. And I'm like, wait, what? What? You're right?

Because first of all, as a person, I'm not really like that. But second of all, I didn't think Charlotte was like that, right? Like I thought Carrie and Samantha were like super cool and there's another guy around the corner. But I thought Charlotte was like deeply invested. And she kind of was, right? Right. But he was just trying to say, in his mind, he knew we were going to have a guy a week, right?

A guy an episode. So we can't be teary about everyone. Right, right. It's too high stakes. Yes. So I had to like back pedal and reshoot something where I was just like, I don't want to do it. Interesting, right?

I get it. Wow. I didn't, thank you for telling me that. That's like inside. I didn't know that you reshot that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember reshooting anything else that I can think of. And I remember being like, you know, you're very thrown off as an actor when you have to

reshoot something. You're like, oh, my God. What did I do wrong? But then when he said it, I was like, oh, yeah, I was totally playing it like this guy could be my husband. And then now he's not going to because I don't want to do what he wants. Like I was doing the high stakes that I thought I was supposed to be doing. You were doing what you were doing what you were trained to do.

Exactly. With a longer form knowledge of where Charlotte's journey was going. Right. It would appear manic. It would appear desperate and manic. Yeah. Too desperate. Yeah, that would not work out every episode.

But there was always an element. You know what I mean? It might be too upsetting, profoundly upset. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That you're crying. And then when later on, when you go to the dating seminar with Carrie, and Carrie's like, no, she's out there. You know, just this, that you're really looking for him.

Yeah. But it can't be, that's a really tough, that's a really tough line to keep acting. Yeah, yeah. Flawlessly, which was she wants what she wants. She knows why. She's, you know, and then when Trey comes along, it's the night and shining arm. It's the answer to all the, and she's so invested in it, ready to go. And it falls apart.

But you can't be so desperate that you're, I don't want to be the other book. Right. That's the end of your romantic journey. But that's a very, very hard, you'd work. And you executed it flawlessly. Thank you. Well, it's funny too to watch this one because, like, for me, I, So what I remember about the, I choose my choice is I remember being really nervous.

But I didn't really remember why. Because I'm on the phone, right? And we would always make an effort to have the other actor be on the set so that you. Oh my God. Really? Yeah, I know. I know. Oh, we never get that.

I know, right? I know. It's such a difference, do you mean? Like, such a difference. I mean, it wouldn't always work because we had cross-boarded, right? So occasionally we'd be double like our other two episodes would go over and people would be off somewhere else, like we'd have two units going. So sometimes we'd have our script supervisor, but we knew them really well, right?

So that helped. But often we would, if it was an important phone call, we would have the other person on the other side of the flat, you know, basically, right? So Cynthia was there. I think so, yeah. I'd have to check with her, but I think she was, which I think is good because I had not remembered that it was as much of an argument as it was. Yeah.

Why don't you ask your husband? I know. It's so mean. Right. But if you had it, but if it wasn't her, you guys can't, you guys can't have that moment without hearing the other person's vocal intonation. Right, because it wasn't like a regular phone call. You know what I mean? Okay. So this helps me, this helps me recognize, okay, maybe I'm not dropping the ball in my acting. You guys had a, you know, because I can only hope, wait, did I? Is it going to cut together? Because I don't know how they would do it. We only get to hear each other at a table read once. Right, right.

It's hard. That's hard. It makes it harder. Yeah, it makes it harder. I think too for us, because anytime any of the characters argued, it was always slightly scary, you know, because we cared so much about the friendships working and that was a goal of ours and the show in general. And, you know, that was like our mission in a lot of ways. But it's not really realistic if you don't have arguments. Yeah. No, there's just no depth to the relationship. Exactly. Right. And so that is what actually, I think, solidified for the audience that you guys were actual friends is to hold each other accountable for your behavior and your actions and how, you know, like Miranda saying to Carrie and that's you and your bullshit bagels. Oh, I know. Just to talk about Aiden.

And it's, you can see that it's true. But even within that fight, do you want it toasted? Yeah. I know. They're hysterical. I totally forgotten about that too. I'd forgotten that this was when the next thing happened. I'd forgotten that Aiding goes over there.

I mean, this is a phase of the show that I don't have solid memories of each one, right? So I'm rewatching it going like, oh my God, wow. Well, how could you? You lived it and you were shooting. You could have been across town shooting something else. There's no way for you to know. That's true. But I do have a lot of memories, right?

But this is about the time that they start to slip a bit, I think, because it got over. overwhelming, right? Because of the success, it became that, like, greater thing where we're going around to different places, countries, photos, shoots, award shows, blah, blah, blah. It was great. It was really fun. But it just became this kind of like no sleep situation. You know what I mean. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, it was a lot. But it's fun to watch because I don't remember all of it. And I think everyone is so good. And I'm also not really sure what's happening. Like, even with the Carrie Aden situation, I don't know. remember this at all, okay?

Really? You don't remember the big on the answering machine? No. Oh. And he's just so ick. Okay, I'm sorry, that that phone call. I'm like, like when Aden says, I don't want him calling here. I'm like, I don't want him calling here. Yeah.

Well, but it's, he ends the message with, call me baby. It's awful. It's very proprietary. I know. Like, no wonder Aiden's upset. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. When Aiden says, I don't want you to see him, and she's like, well, I can't do that.

I'm like, no, Carrie, you need to say you won't. But knowing where the world goes, I know, but even knowing, but here's what's crazy is the episodes immediately after that are up in the country in suffering. Right. And then he and Big shows up in the, which is great. She can reach me, but I can never reach her. Right. But then they end up with this like, what is it, Green Arrow Spider-Man fight? something so crazy where Carrie's like, I don't know who that is.

Yeah. And then they get a law. It's such, it's, it's, it's great writing. Yeah. It feel, it, you do have to accept like a suspension of disbelief. Yes. A suspension of belief that that these two this soon could gel as men understanding each other while she's in the room after everything that's happened.

It's true. And you're not the first person to tell. tell me that. And I do kind of see your point. But the thing that I thought, and I, of course, I know everyone involved. So it is so hard to be objective, right? But the thing that I thought, and I'm not a man, I could be so wrong, right? But like men have, you know, these complicated things they have to do in life where there have to be like super macho and claim their territory and whatever, or they think they have to or whatever. But then I felt that they had this slow burn going on, like, as you very clearly see in this scene, right? Where, you know, big calls

in what I think is just such a jerk, a jerk move, right? Like this phone call message is like, ick, right? And of course, it's meant to do exactly what it does, which is, you know, that's mine, right? And then Aiden's there in like the worst situation and then they can't talk about it, etc. So of course Aidan has like a, it's just going to fam that flame of him being upset about the previous, you know, cheating. Obviously. And so in my mind, when I watch the fight that eventually happens in the country, it's because they actually get to fight. Because how rare is that in life that you actually get to fight it out, right? Yeah.

Like it doesn't happen that often. Thank God, right? Thank God. Fighting is never good. But because they fight, it kind of like, it's a catharsis for those guys. I think so. Yes. And then they could just sit there and chat.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I kind of bought it. But that's me. I don't know. Yeah. No, I'm, I, it's, it's a series. It's, it's, it's stories, but it makes sense to me.

And I think that's why it's so enduring is that, yeah, they fight it out. And then the steam is let out of the pot. Right. Right. And you can see them as another person, right? Like that's another person. And because Big is so all messed up about this actress, you know, Aiden can kind of see, oh, he's a mess too, right? Like, Eden's got the girl. Right. And this guy's a mess. And so he can look at like, oh, what, okay. Right.

And I had not really remembered any of this. So it's really interesting to me how they're going to get it all back together. But I guess we'll find out. But let's talk about this episode. Okay, so first of all, one thing too, you're talking about, you said something about traditions. The thing that made me laugh too, and this is a minor storyline, obviously, but the Samantha storyline about the pubic hair.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's so foreshadowing, right? Like now, I think all the young men, trim and and groom, right? Which is great, of course. But it's funny that in this episode, you know, this guy's like, oh, wow. And look how much, I'm not going to say his words, but, you know, he's pleased with the outcome.

But it's turning things upside down in the traditions of it all because it was, and I guess, I don't know if it still is. Like, I don't know what the young ladies are doing down there. Right. I don't know. Because there was a while where maybe it was supposed to be more natural, but then maybe, Maybe, maybe not. I don't know.

I don't know. I feel like there was a time when someone was talking about how like 70s Bush is back. Right? I didn't subscribe to that personally. No. I groom, but I'm not a laser. Me neither.

I don't know. Some people are just. No, no. It's all gone and I don't. I don't. I don't like it. Yeah. I mean,

I lived through all this with with the show, right? And so we went through every phase. We went through every phase together, basically, because all of us, the writers and the actors were living through the changes. And I remember when Gwyneth Paltrow did like Vogue or something and discussed those sisters, the Brazilian sisters who would and said it was life changing. And I was like, wait, what is happening? Oh my God.

And then you were like, okay, I guess I got to try it. I don't know. It's like the pressure, like the peer pressure to do it. Did you do a Brazilian? I mean, I tried not to, but then that they just wanted to do what they wanted to do, do what they wanted to do, do what I mean, right? And then I was like, well, this is horrible, horrible. Oh, I've never tried that. I'm super uncomfortable. I did not. I did not dig it. I have super sensitive skin. I did not go back. In fact, it like scarred me for mentally,

for ever going to those people in general. Like my skin is just not suited for that kind of harsh, like, I have a 14-year-old daughter and she's like, wait, they do what? They, What happens? And I'm like, you don't need to know. Okay. That's got to be inconceivable to children. Right. They're very confused.

Like they take the thing and then they pull it. I'm like, yes. And she's like, does it? I'm like beyond. Okay. It's not like hurt. It's like, ah. Yeah.

Yeah. I did a home wax once. I got that, I think, near. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Used to make a wax strip. Yeah. Not just like, it was hair removal, right?

So it was like, I think there was a cream that like immediately gave you like a horrible rash. If you tried that, you do that at home. Yes. It's like awful. Abuse in a sanitarium. Right. But then there came out with wax.

And it was like pieces of paper and you stuck together with the wax and you warmed it up with your hand and you put it on. I miss that. And you waited until it cooled a little bit and then you ripped it yourself. Did it? And in patches. But what was uniform was bruising. Oh. I was completely bruised.

Horrible. Do you remember the blue stuff? There was some blue stuff, like blue wax. And I bought it and I took it home. And like my kitchen just never recut. There was just blue strings. Oh, the strings. I do remember this? Did you have to heat it up in the microwave? Yeah, you're supposed to heat it and then like somehow not burn yourself. But also every, any time you would take it, it would just be. What a nightmare. The things we go through. So I love that storyline, even though it is the lesser storyline. It's such a good storyline. And also, she meets him by like getting in his cab which is so hysterical and i would never do that i would never do that i would not recommend that but of course she's Samantha and she can do anything but um it that was pretty funny but the miranda storyline also like and this reminds me of like you know when when she thinks she's going to die and the cat's going to eat her face and yeah when she eats the cake like there are these really really incredibly sweet miranda storylines where i'm just like oh my god

i love her so much i love her so much and it's also like it's sad like her neck goes out and but also it's interesting to me that Carrie actually has an actual meeting. But for some reason, never tells Miranda that she has this work meeting. No, she started to say it and Miranda says, thanks, bye! And the phone drops. Because, like, Miranda would understand that because we're talking about work in the whole episode, right? But she never hears this information.

No, because she's in so much pain. And then she drops the phone. As Carrie is trying to say, but I have to. a meaning with my Miranda goes, thanks bye and the phone drops. Got it, got it, got it. And then she just gets progressively worse, but that is like exactly what you're saying where her vocal intonations the whole time she's on the ground, don't come in and ow, like she's so vulnerable and desperate and hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When her defenses are down, you know, they're down.

Right. She's desperate and sad. She's like super strong. and then not. Right. Yeah. In desperate need of help. And Aiden is the perfect guy to go. I do get that. I know. And then he wraps her and she holds the rug to cover herself.

Yeah. And he says snug as a bug and a rug and a rug. Oh, my God. I always always always always always. Wait, but first when he walks in, he has the towel. And he's like, oh, smells good. That's that downy, fresh stuff or something. He's talking about the fabric softener and he puts the towel on top of her.

I looked up who the director was. I've never worked with this person. Michael Angler. watching this, Michael Angler, yeah, who does Downtonabby and I think Gilded Age. Yeah. Also with Cynthia, Nixon, I'm guessing. Yes. They probably, every single moment serves a purpose.

Nothing is lost. Nothing is extra. Everything is moving the story forward and offering information and insight. Right. It's an incredibly good episode. Yes, and we should say that it is written by Jessica Bedinger, who is someone that I don't know, which every time we have one by her, I'm like, we must find this woman. She was not one of our writers who was with us all the time, which most of them were, right? Right. So it's really

interesting. I think this is maybe the third or fourth that we've had from her, even from the very beginning. But I think she was here in L.A. and sending scripts, which is not our norm. Our norm was that you were in New York, you were in the room, with us, not even in the room, like, on the set. You know what I'm saying? Whatever we were. On the set, present. If we wanted to discuss. us something. They were like, talk to us, you know, which was so incredible, right? As, you know, normally they're just off somewhere in the writer's room or whatever. But I don't know her, but this is a really, really solid, solid episode in every single way. And I think Corbett is so incredibly good. I had totally forgotten about this bartender girl. Who is she? Oh, my God.

I was like, that is upsetting. Okay. Sometimes I really still have very, I have very, her name is, is Gretchen Clevely. She plays Pia. Interesting. She's very good because she's like very in it with Corbett. You know what I mean? Like the second you see them, they're very lucked in in their scenes with Corbett.

Twozies. Yeah. And they're playing jacks. Yes. Carrie has to introduce herself. I'm sorry. It's super lame, right? Like she's teaching you to play jacks?

Like really, Aiden? You don't know how to play jacks? That's super interesting. Okay. Like every element of it, I think, is so perfect. And I was so impressed with Carrie in the first scene in her super cute part of skirt that's like down low on her stomach. Love that outfit.

We see the first, I think this is the first time we're seeing the fanny pack. And it's very present, very present in this episode. And it looks fantastic. I understand the whole trend. But she's very, I think she plays it very cool in that first scene with them. Like I would have been much more like, what the fuck? Like right away, you know? I kind of feel like.

She does a little bit in that very sort of carry presentational way. She's like, so a night with the guys, huh? And then, oh, yeah, the guys blew me off. And she's like, oh, so Steve. And where is Steve? I know, I know. But the fact that she even, right,

she has like some sense of humor about it. She's holding on. She's holding on her anger. Yeah, because I think she recognizes he's leaking revenge, basically. He can't stop himself. It's super best. of aggressive.

Pushing her buttons to see what she'll take. It's messed up. It's messed up. But it's understandable. It's very understandable. But it would be so much better if they could just talk about it. Yeah. Whatever.

Maybe in the 50s they would have. I know. Well, probably they would have because we did talk a lot more in and just like that. But I don't think people necessarily always liked it, but that's okay. I did. And I was mortified that it didn't get picked up. I was so confused. My husband and I both were like, who made that decision?

That doesn't even make any sense. Well, I don't think it makes any sense either. That's all I'm going to say. But thank you for caring. Thank you for caring. I appreciate that so much. I still have hope. We'll see.

We'll see. I don't think we're done. I don't think we're done. You can't be done. You can't be done. I'm on a show that's been canceled. I was fired and then brought back. I mean, yeah.

Can we talk about that? for a minute. Because wow, wow. What on earth happened? When I got, when I got five. Yeah. It was, I think it was season six or seven or something. Okay. And we did a put pile. This is if you do if listeners don't know right. This is a show called criminal minds. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big. Big. Like a lot of profiler show. FBI. It's big, internationally yeah but we're we're the show is owned by so many companies oh that no one will put any money into it because they don't all get all the money back it's fine it's why we're still alive it's why we're still shooting in l.a we have our crew everyone's sad god we're just like an under the

radar fcii show that's that does really well all over the world so um in season six or seven we did a what's i guess it's called a put pilot i'm not sure or an embedded pilot okay so It took this group of FBI profilers that's always on every Wednesday at 9 o'clock on CBS. And they were building a spinoff pilot inside of an episode of our show. Wow. With, oh, now I don't know everyone's name. It's okay. Forrest Whitaker was like the big guy that was going to go on.

Yeah. Okay. And so people you know. Okay. But we shot in San Francisco. We had never left L.A. Wow. We shoot all over L.A.

and Long Beach and Fraser Park and Lancash, you know, whatever. But we'd never gone to another part of the state. Right. So this pilot inside our episode was shot in San Francisco. And apparently, this is what I heard, when Les Moonvez, who is now famously ousted president of CBS, when he got the pilot inside of our. episode. It was the first time he'd watched the show because the show just performed. Wow. It was never, it's never going to be nominated for an award. It's never going to be,

we're never going to shoot in Paris. It's very solid. Exactly. So we think he saw the show for the first time in years. Wow. And just said, oh, I don't like those women. Get rid of those women. And so A.J. Cook and I were fired for, and my. And my, My agent went in and had a big fight with them and kept me, AJ was out. They kept me for 15 episodes or something. While I trained on the show, my character trains the character who took AJ's part. Oh, no. And they look so similar that people ran photos of this new actress saying it was AJ for six or seven years after.

The replacement, and she's fine. She's great. She's lovely. She lasted a year. And then they fired her and brought AJ back. Oh my gosh. When I finished my 15 episodes, they said, please stay. And I was like, thank you.

I'm so mad. Totally. I'm so mad at you. I do not accept this. And I left for four years. And it was great. I did a show called Grandfather. And I did a show called Another Period for Comedy Central,

a bunch of drunk history. I did community. Right. Amazing. Like I did a lot of, went back to comedy and had a great time. But during that time,

fans would come up to me and be like, why are you on going to? And after four years, because I really did hold on to that anger for too long. Oh, it was an unhealthy thing to hold on to

because AJ and I were like, we were early, we knew our lines, we never got into fights. We never, you know. I mean, unreal. We were really, angry and and AJ was asked back a year after she was gone and she's she's just a nicer person

than I am and I'm like I'm from a from a tight anger and fear-based Massachusetts people love it so I held on to the anger for too long and after four years I finally thought why am I not on I love everyone there I just don't like less moon Vez sure and I never have to see him because he doesn't care about this show. So I agreed to guest star. And then the first day I showed up to guest star, there was an altercation between one of the actors and the cast and a writer that led to the actor being let go.

What? Okay. So yeah. And I, it's just a sad situation all around. Oh, no. And something I don't really want to, I don't want to. I wasn't there so I can't. But when that was inevitable and the studio had made a decision and it was over,

this person was no longer going to be on the cast. The writers and studio and network said to me, please come back and now your character be the boss. That's cool. I like that. And I said, okay. And then I fought. I fought and fought and fought to. try to get my episodic fee close to what the men were making.

Yes. Because we were always paid less. So then because I was like, well, I kind of have them over a barrel. Yeah. They need me more than I need this show. So I'm going to go. So I got my episode fee way up from what it was. then when the other female cast members, their contracts were up.

And so I said, this is what I got. Go get more. Amazing. Because you stayed and I was at. So then they went in and they got big raises. And then my contract was up. No, actually my contract wasn't up. They got raises.

And then the next year, because I told them, this is what I'm getting. You should get more. Right. get more. They did. Then my contract was not up and my husband said, you're going back. Why don't you ask to make what they're making? And I was like, they're never going to do that. I'm signed. And he was like, just say you want parity. Give it a shot. And I said, hey, guys, I told my lawyer, my manager, and they were like, we can ask. They're not going to do it. They called the next day and said, they're going to pay you. Oh, my God. So I'm like, oh, okay, thank God, I don't have a pre-nup.

My husband deserves it. Like, it was his idea. That's adorable. That's a good husband. Well, we're so beaten down into thinking, well, of course, we're not making as much as the men. Why would we? We do. And I was like, oh, this is over.

That's over now. I do not accept that. And I think a lot of people don't. That's radically changed in the last few years. It's really hard. It's really hard thing always. My thing is like, you know, if you love, the thing, right?

Yeah. You would do it for free. Right. But you can't say that. No, it's like really hard for me. And I feel like what happens, at least back when we all started, right? Or when we were getting the beginning as a success, the way to fight really hard would be not to go to work. Oh, I would, I could never, ever do that.

But I knew guys who did. There were actors. One day, someone suddenly got bitten by a poisonous spike. and a week later, they got a huge race. Oh my God. And I'm like, that's how this works. I could never do that. I don't want to do that to the writers or to the crew.

Because you know those people, right? I don't want to screw those people over. Right? The idea that they would be sitting at work going like, well, you know, I don't know, Chris may not come in. Like I can't even. Insane. I can't even live with that thought, much like to do it, you know?

Yeah. And so in the beginning, I always thought that that's what you had. to do because that's the only way I'd ever seen at work. And I was like, well, I'm just not going to do that. I just can't. That's not who I am. And I don't, I choose my choice. I choose my choice. Not to be an independent operator who's going to screw other people to get a rate, because then you have to live with yourself. Yeah. That is who you are. I don't want to be that. I did not want to do that. Right. And that seemed to be, there were no in between, right? There was this and there's that, you know? And so I thought, well, you know what? I'm just going to have less money that I might

have had, which is annoying, but I still can live with myself, right? And so it's so great that you were able to find another way to do that. And also that obviously you were a team player and doing an excellent job in the first place and wrongly fired. And thank God it came back around for you. Me too. And I'm extremely thankful for that. I want to talk about the hair because I, I really, really am jealous, okay? Like, how did it happen? I'm super into it. I was afforded every opportunity.

The last year when we knew Criminal Minds was ending at CBS and we were going to shoot season 15 and be done, I asked our showrunner, Erica Messer, may I wear a wig for this last year? So that's a whole, and my hair looked like a wig anyway. It was like black bangs, black long hair. I was dyeing my roots every other weekend because I can't sit in a salon chair. Oh, it's hard. If I don't have to do it in the morning, sure, I'm learning my lines.

I'm getting a blowout. I love it. But I wasn't going to be doing. And I started going gray when I was 28. Oh, wow. I didn't even know what was under there. It's so beautiful. I love it now that it's long.

But man, no, the in-between. She let me wear a wig, but I had to cut it down to a crew cut. And that worked when I was 18. I had a crew cut when I was 18, but I had dyed it permanent for so long that I couldn't strip the black and brown out. So it went down to this. Now, we finished Criminal Minds season 15. I am just wearing hats all the time because I look like, at its longest, I look like George Washington. It's springing.

It's short. I am unattractive. I am not rocking this hairstyle. I'm not and I feel awful so I'm not sexy my husband's doing everything in his power he's like baby you look great let me let me touch that fuzz in the back here that's so it feels so cool I love him he's the best yeah so but then pandemic so now I have two years wow to grow it out and I love it long like your length I prefer I want this length it's so gorgeous but when it got to the bob I was like, okay, I'm coming out of the funk. At least it's like, I can't put it in a ponytail, but it took so long. Wow. And I would, and when women, and women do compliment me a lot.

Like they, they love it. And they're dyeing their hair. I can tell some of them I had a little bit of gray at the roots. They're like, I want to do it. And I say, be prepared to cut all of your hair off because you're not going to get that die out. And you're not going to like it. You're going to feel like crap for a year or two. And I had the pandemic.

I had a year of wig. Right. And two years of pandemic. So I got it. When we came out of the pandemic, I was like, I'm a goddess. Thank God. But also, you had such foresight. Like, this was really, really smart of you.

I mean, it's impressive. I think it's all luck. I think it's all luck. And the funny thing was, the last year of criminal minds, I was like, okay, I'm going to grow my hair out gray. And then I'm going to do, like, all kinds of different parts with gray hair. And then pandemic hits, nothing. And the whole, I was like, I'm going to be on like a really cutting edge streaming show with my gray hair.

And then when Paramount Plus picked us up during the pandemic. Then you were. I went in and said, I can wear the wig. I have the hair. I have the real hair wig. Right. Or we can do the gray. It's up to you.

I don't care. Oh, that's nice. I'm in the hair chair for eight minutes. Right. My real hair, I get a beautiful blowout. Right. times a week. And they went to Paramount Plus with, like, photos. First, I went to the DP, and I said, is this going to be difficult to light? He was like, I love it. Amazing. The showrunner was like,

I love it. Amazing. He says, I love it. UPM, great. So then I, then they went to this, they said, we have to run it by the studio. And I still was like, I can wig or not. I'm totally fine. Wow. And the studio said, we love the gray, which was a shock. Yeah. I did not think that was going to happen. them. Yeah, it was very surprising. But also super smart of how you went about it. Because I think what happens as an actor or actress especially, if you have it like, I am doing this, that's when things go wrong. Oh, no. Yeah, you're, yeah. Yeah. And I, but I mean, I did understand that I had presented as this brunette for the whole time. You know, I, I wasn't really doing, if I did, I would do comedies and wigs but but when i went gray and it was shorter the only show that cast me was mom

that alison janey yes on a ferris i was cast with very short gray hair and they said we don't need to put a wig on you oh when i did a bunch of episodes of how i met your father they wigged me and so i was always like i don't care i'll wig not wig things are Wigs are done so well now. Definitely. In the hands of a professional that you can be anything. That's a really good point. I never even think of this.

I just go to that salon all the damn time. I hope you've enjoyed this chat with Paget Brewster. She's really, really fun. And we're going to have part two later this week. So please join us on Are You a Charlotte? This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.