Are You A Charlotte? - Cancer, Crying and the Country isn't for Carrie with Evan Ross Katz... (S4 E9 "Sex and the Country")

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

Entertainment expert and avid Carrie supporter Evan Ross Katz agrees with Kristin on whether Carrie should be having dinner with Big. Evan also shares his strong opinion on whether Aidan was wrong to tell Miranda about Steve's diagnosis. Evan and Kristin opine whether there will be more Sex and the City or if this truly is the end.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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founding partner of IHeart women's sports. I'm Michelle McPhee and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long How long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte?

You guys, we've just been chatting up the storm and miss some good things because we have the incredible Evan Ross Katz. So exciting. I've been voting you on. for a long time. We text on Instagram sometimes. And he's been so sweetly like, yes, call me. So finally, it has worked out. Well, I'm a fan not only of sex in the city and in just like that, but I'm a huge fan

of this podcast. So I feel like I'm in like the belly of the beast that I love so much. Thank you. I feel like you are a pioneer. And as we were briefly talking about, we need to discuss. Like, I'm so fascinated. We are in the wild, wild west of podcasting. And you have just gotten this big Netflix deal.

And I need to hear all about it. Is it Shut Up Evan or is it the rewatch or is it both and what's happening? Yeah. So it's a new iteration of my previous podcast Shut Up Evan and it's kind of like an expanded version. So it's now going to be two times a week. Wow. One episode is going to be a traditional long form interview with a celebrity. Okay.

As it's existed for years. Right. The new version is a panel show with a rotating panel of three celebrities, pop culture experts, comedians, New Yorkers, etc. Oh, okay. Talking about the week in pop culture. So we'll pick like five. topics. For instance, like this week we talked about Lena Dunham's fame say. Yeah. And

Coachella and all the things that are happening. Cool. And then we'll pick like some shows, like Love on the Spectrum that we're going to talk about. And it's just three panelists and myself, gabbing about pop culture. When you're recording, are you filming it differently, knowing it's going to be on Netflix? How does that work? I think in general there's a cognizant, and this is not even just because of the Netflix, but also just in terms of like, you know, we're altering our approach to how we do things in real time and we're, you know, reacting to the culture. I think that I used to have a more critical lens in general around how I viewed things. Because that's just my brain, I have a little bit of a negative brain where when I watch something,

I'm like, here are the four things that didn't work. And then I'll watch it again. And I'll start to see, okay, the thing I thought didn't work was actually a choice that I actually think improves upon. This other thing makes sense. I love that. So as such, I think my approach now is to be a little bit more gentler and to consider less how I feel about it and more what do I think this person, whether it be the artist or the director, what do I think they were trying to say? Right. Well, that's an amazing level of introspection in terms of your opinion, which I think is so powerful and needed out there in the cultural conversation.

Thank you. Because I feel like with social media, which obviously when we started making Sex and City, there was no social media. There was not even email as we come to in this particular season, which I have never laughed so hard. I do not remember these things. I know intellectually as a person that this didn't exist and then it did, but like when Carrie tries to make her first email, which is like two episodes ago, it was like so funny. So it was this huge change, obviously, in so many ways and obviously affecting your career and my career, but also affecting how people watch television and film.

Yes. And the kind of immediateness of being able to go onto your own platform, because everyone has one, and saying your first thoughts. And I feel like the negative thoughts somehow, how. has more power. Absolutely. And what do you make of that? Well, it's interesting because I, back in the day, when I used to start posting, I didn't

sort of realize the power of negativity. Because, again, they were negative thoughts that were in my mind. So in my head, I'm just espousing my beliefs, right? I didn't view it as sort of adding to a talk successful that was forming. Yes. Whereas now, I think part of this is just getting older and having a better understanding of the world as being bigger than just your bubble. Right.

But as such, I started to realize that my negativity, like, created more negativity. It invited other people to weigh in or to amplify it. And so I think just as my platform got bigger, I had more of an awareness on how people with platforms of all ilks have the ability, whether conscious or unconscious, to alter how other people feel about things. Right. So there might have been people who noticed something and felt not one way about it, but then you say, oh, I hated that. they're going to be like, oh, yeah, I hated that. You know, they would have otherwise not even given it any consideration. So I think as such I just am, and I also know a little bit more now about how the sauce is

made and the work that goes into making these things. So even when I watch something and I think it's, I'm still going to try and find the two or three things that I loved about it and try and celebrate that aspect of it because oftentimes I know people that are affiliated with these things and I want to prop up the work that they and I want things to be seen, and I recognize that even when something is not amazing, there are good things to be mine from it. So I actually see my work now as I get really excited when I don't love something, because I see my work as being trying to find within me the things that I do like about it. I love that. And I really so deeply appreciate that that is what you want to be putting out into

the world. And I think that that's something that I don't know if people realize that the whole hate watching situation is just toxic for everyone. I mean, I've had people say to me, well, look, if they're hate watching it, they're still watching it. And I get that point. I fully get that point. But I also know that all of us are just doing our best. Like, we're trying so hard. And it's so hard to make anything. And yeah, sometimes it doesn't hit the way you want it to hit. This is, true. This is just part of making stuff. Sometimes it's going to hit. Sometimes it's not going to hit. even within one show, some episodes, some scenes might hit, or some episodes of a series, whatever it is, right? There's so many distinctions within it.

But the one thing that's always true, at least, I would say 90% of the time, everyone's trying their hardest. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about Michael Patrick. Yes. Okay, so how did you meet him originally? And I love so much, you described him earlier as a mentor. And I feel the same way as you know. Totally.

We met in the in between seasons one and season two of And Just Like That. Got it. I was profiling him for, I think it was L, I want to say. Because I freelance for a lot of different publications. And so we met for lunch. And I now, when I think I have a really good interaction with an actor, sometimes I'll think like, I've made a new friend or something. And I sort of recognize now the showmanship that is an interview.

So while I try and meet as close to the real as I can, I also have removed the expectation that, like, I am meeting the real person. I am meeting a version of the person that they are presenting. But isn't that always true? Absolutely. That is very true. Right? Yes, but this is, the stakes are a little bit higher because they're under a magnified.

Good point. Good point. But that is absolutely true. Yeah. Completely. So we met then, and then I asked him to come on my podcast, and so we recorded that, got to know him a little bit more in that instance. And then this is the part that's like the gray area for me.

I think we got his email somehow. We'd keep in touch a little bit. I never want to bother him. I know he's got a lot going on. And then when they announced the comeback season three, I sent him an email. That's one of my absolute favorite shows. So my Mount Rushmore shows are, well, I don't even know the fourth one, but it's Buffy the Vampires, Slayer, Sex and the City, and the comeback. Love it.

The fourth one, maybe Breaking Bad. Wow. But obviously, two MPK shows. So he's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, reached out to him just to say how excited I was. And then when I was in L.A., he asked me if I would come and watch the pilot episode, the premiere of season three. It was like months when we just finished it.

Fantastic. And so I went and watched it with him in a private room. That's quite an honor. It was such an honor. Yeah. And also just I, Valerie is a character I have a particular reverence for. She's incredible. Just being able to be in a room with MBK and then watching Valerie in 2026.

It was so meaningful. Yeah, yeah. And then from there, we just kind of like kept in touch. He invited me to do the comeback podcast with him and Lisa. Yay. Which is when I got to really like spend time with him. Yeah. And I've always appreciated MBK as like, you know,

obviously watch all of his work, really enjoyed him on the and just like that podcast, which I feel like that was a really good window into his creative process, but just getting to spend time with him, like the human being that he is, that you know so well. He's incredible, yes. He is, and he is celebrated,

but he's not celebrated enough. Totally. And not just as a creative force as just a, he just has a magnetic. Yes. And I was saying to you off mic, it's like I, it's like he's part mentor to me.

he also is like there's an element to him he almost was like a father figure to me in this weird way where I just like I want to make him proud. Yeah, so do I. And I said to him when we had to say goodbye after finishing the comeback, the podcasting thing I was like I'm just going to miss you so much. It was three days. It was three days of taping

but it was as close to an experience of like working on a production of him as I will get. You see why I always want to go back to work. Oh, I completely get it. Just to be around everybody. And it's not just the work itself which is great. It's that like he really creates an environment that you want to be on.

So I consider getting to know him in the way I have to be such a gift. And he luckily is a big voice memoir. I'm a big voice memoir. I love the sound of his voice. It's good, right? And so, yeah, we've subsequently kept in touch and he's just a force of good. I agree. He's a force of good.

We got to honor him in L.A. Yes, that was so lovely. So great. And it was one of those times also because he cut together the clips. They had wanted it to be like a minute or something. And he's like, no, I'm sorry. It's got to be longer. And it was to honor his visibility of LGBTIQI, which, you know, I mean, there's so much, right?

And it was so emotional. And I was so happy to be able to be there and to be in that room with so many friends and, you know, people in our business who are trying to do good, right? And to watch what he has put on the screen over the years and just to be any kind of part of it. It's just amazing. And I'm so thankful for him. Yeah. He's amazing. Yeah. I know it's interesting because I think that in some ways people kind of know. And then they also feel like he's like, sometimes I think people feel like he's almost too powerful and like daddy overseeing. But I don't think they realize that he's really with us. Like we, I feel, at least I think all of us feel that he's very much a powerful, powerful ally. And then for me, he is, you know, he has in many ways created me. I mean, in some ways,

Darren because Darren cast me in Melrose and then Sex and City. So of course, we're always forever grateful to Darren. But Michael Patrick really saw me and created Charlotte. Charlotte grew and bloomed over these many, many, many years in ways that I could never have dreamt of from the beginning. You know, I knew that she had potential and I knew that it wasn't on the page yet, right? And when he first met me, as he said when he came on the podcast, he said to me when he first came onto the show the first season with Darren. He said, I know what to do for Carrie. I know what to do for Miranda. I know what to Samantha. I don't know what to do for Charlotte. I don't know who that is. And thank God, he hung in there, right? He hung in there and just envisioned more and

more and more. And I would not have the career I have if it went out for him. And there's a life lesson there too, I think, which is that like giving people time in the sense of we, I speak on my own behalf, I can be really quick to judge, whether it be characters on shows or people in life, to say, like, I like this person, I'm endeared to this person, don't like this person, don't have time for this person. Right. And I think with someone like MPK, giving Charlotte that time necessary so that he could understand her and by proxies that you could find your way into her. By the way, let's be clear here. Charlotte was fully realized from the jump, but it just... Well, in me, she was, right?

But not on the page. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. Like even when you read Candace's book, she makes no sense. Fair. And Candice told me she was like three people, like, different. Amalgamation. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But I think that it's like by giving people the opportunity to incubate, to really see them. Yes. To figure out the ways in which you can help them blossom. Yes. It really, it's like there's power in the long game. Absolutely.

And it's rare to get it. Yeah. That's the other thing, especially now with streaming as it is. Luckily, with streaming, you get to make the episodes and then drop them all at once, which is good or bad, depending on how you feel about it. But back in the day, if you were on network, you know, they were looking at those numbers Monday morning and you were like in or out. You know what I mean? And it's funny because I think about, you know, you talk about this often on this podcast, which is like really feeling like the show really fully came into itself around season three. And it's similar with Buffy where like Buffy was, it was a midseason replacement when it first premiered.

Wow. The first season was all similar to how you shot the Sucks and the City pilot like a year before. Yeah. They shot a pilot presentation like a year earlier. Wow. Then they shot the entire first season before it ever went to air, which is that true of Sexner City, too? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's very similar. Yeah. And the show was figuring out what it was. And it wasn't until around season three with Buffy, like where it really like fully took off. But it's like you had a network and you had an environment in which people were willing to say, okay, let's give this time.

Right. Not to say it's not good, but just like to fully become itself. Right. Whereas these days there's so many times where I watch a show where I'm like, I don't love it, but I see the vision. And I think if given time to figure itself out, it could really grow into something. But this is an industry right now that doesn't favor time. It's kind of like you've got to come out the gate and work. You've got to know who you are.

Right. And if you don't, someone's in the wings. Totally. It's so true. It's really hard. Experience Harry Styles live in London, England at Wembley Stadium. This is Harry Styles. IR Radio wants to send you and a mate across the pond with flights from Virgin Atlantic.

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Kiss all the time, disco occasionally, available now. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay.

Jen she won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going.

From the WMBA standout, Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why I can. girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ledecky. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do

anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Let's talk about sex in the country. It's hard to get back on track. But what's cool about this, I didn't remember any of this, except that they went to the country, right? And except that I had a visual of Carrie in the mud. I'd forgotten why Carrie gets in the mud. I have a visual memory, right? So I remember like unusual things. You know, I also totally forgot that this is when she wears that tiny green skirt with the, yes, that they got it century 21, had no idea. Like all of it. I'm just like,

bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing when I'm watching this. Oh, and I just love how she does that little turn. And it's like, why is she turning? She's turning because you got to see the back of that. Totally. That justifies it. But this is the thing about Sarah Jessica and her physical comedy skills. which are so missed because she's so effortless about them, she can do whatever she wants. Like when she's in that mud and he's trying to help her up and she's slipping and it goes on and on, it's because we could watch it for a solid hour.

Because she's a dancer. She's so beautiful and talented and interesting in her choices. Even the way she maneuvers around that, is it a cabin? What does he have? Yeah, it's definitely a cabin. Because her carries lack of comfort. It's so evident in every step she takes. So it's not even what she says.

It's just her physicality moving through a space that is so against her understanding of the world. And the fact that Aiden somehow, like he wants her to love it because he wants her to love him. Yes. And that is a representation of him. Yes. But she doesn't. Like, it's interesting to me. Like, don't they know how different they are?

But I also think Corbett is really interesting in this episode because I totally agree with you. He wants her to love it. And also, there's a, he's not pushing it on her. And he's not, he doesn't feel any type of way, at least from what we're seeing in the character, about her not connecting with it. Oh, he does. You think he does? Yes. That's what I see the wheels turning.

That's what I meant when I see the wheels turning. Oh, interesting. But he's covering, he's covering, he's covering, because he's hoping that she's going to love it. He's still hoping that she's going to love him, that she's really going to love him. him and not that other guy. That's what's his whole thing. Do you mean? And at the end, that's why he's, wait, is it motherboard?

Motherboard, they almost break, like motherboard, which is before, correct? Yes, yes. It's so interesting. Right. Because motherboard kind of stands on its own and this kind of stands on its own. But like they've got, it's like coming to a head. Yes. Right.

Well, it's funny because we say this now knowing where everything goes. Right. It's funny to watch this set of episodes leading up to the good fight where you're kind of like, you know that we're ramping up toward the end of their relationship. But it's not as though it's like a steady decline. No. Things seem really good. In fact, by the end of this episode, it's like you have this wonderful moment of compromise. Right.

Where it's like, I'm going to come here, not as often as you might have liked, but more often than I'd like to. Right. And so you're kind of like, oh, they're in a stable place. Much in the same way they got to that place at the end of motherboard where it's like, here they are at the funeral. All is good. So beautiful. But that's, I think, why the impact of what happens later on this season has felt so much, because you felt like you were on stable ground and you felt like it was the true machinations of a relationship,

which is that even though they fight and have these disagreements, they're ultimately both in it. Right. And it's as such where, yeah, when we find out that where things go, I don't, not to spoil. Right. You feel so caught off guard because you're like, oh, we've been to this place before and surely they can restabilize. Well, also, and I had forgotten that she goes and has dinner with Big. Yeah. What the heck, man.

I mean, like, okay, wait. You tell Aiden that you have a meeting with your editor, that you tell him when he invites you to the country because you really don't want to go. But then you actually take the train back to the city and you have dinner with your ex. This is super fascinating. It is. I love that about Carrie, though. Did you? Okay.

Because, and I'm such an ardent carry defender through and through always. Which is great. Of course. But in my mind, I'm like, I see it as Carrie is so stable in her relationship with Aiden and so sure of putting the relationship with Big in the rear view that in her mind, because it's what she's authentically feeling, because she knows that this is no longer a romantic partner. She sees it because of the purity of that for her. And maybe that's a misread shortly, as we all have in life. But in terms of I understand her intention. She does.

Yes. That's important. Yes. Yes, no, I think she believes that because when we cut to them at dinner, she's talking about Aiden, right? Yes. And I mean, you don't go to your ex that you're still in love with and talk about your current or whatever. And then he starts talking about this actress. And I'm just like, ugh, gross.

And I feel like that's what her face looks like, too. She's just like, oh, my God, who is this? And you have a lot of hope for her. I had a lot of like, I'm like, this is maturity. We're growing now. Of course, I know there's a lot of things that happen later. But I can block them out because when I'm rewatching, I'm fully in it. And I'm like, oh, my God, I don't remember any of this.

I had not remembered the whole actress storyline. Oh, yeah. Which will continue. I know. And I'm just so torn about it all because it's based on something in life. Uh-huh. Did you know that? I didn't.

Okay. I don't know because there wasn't social media at the time. And we didn't talk about the stuff at the time. And I need – this is one of those times where I'm like, I need Michael Patrick on speed dial at all times when I'm doing the podcast. So I can be like, do people know that the, because I don't think people do and I probably shouldn't, you know, this is one of those areas of difficulty, right? Where like, because when I was rewatching, I was like, oh my God, this is like, I forgot that he wrote this in. Like sometimes he would actually write things in. Is this like a publicly known story?

I don't know, Evan. I'm so unsure. Wow. Wow. Okay, maybe you'll tell me off, Mike. Yes, I will. I will, for sure. And you can investigate it.

Yeah, happy to. I don't want to get in horrific trouble. Fair. Which I really, really could. But when he's talking to her about that, I'm like, you're done, big. You need to get out. Get out. That's gross.

Don't be telling her that you're going out with some actress and you're in love. Like, ew. Do what I'm saying? Yeah. I don't care if she was just talking about Aiden. But at least I think it's, for the first time, we're seeing his attempt to meet her where she is in actually, it seems like, trying to form whatever this friendship will be. And I got to say, I love watching Sarah Jessica calibrate the different chemistries that she has

with both Chris and John in the same episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's always fascinating. Yeah, and you're getting to see this evolution of a Carrie who is not desperately, I was going to say, but really trying to figure out whether or not what concessions she is willing to make in this relationship. Absolutely. Because I think part of the suffering of it all, obviously, as it's so often the case on the show, suffer represents something bigger than just suffering, right?

For sure. And it's just Carrie and the discomforts that have been present with Aiden for quite some time. They are the background of Aden. But it really come in fruition and how much of herself she's willing to give over. But then also, we, I think, the audience feel this is more than the character. Well, what about all the concessions you made to be with Big? That's so good. See, this is also for me so interesting because as I've talked about,

to many a girlfriend in the 90s, all the men were just difficult and withholding and jerks, basically. And when you first watched the show, the beginning of the show, you know, we've got the modelizer guy who's filming himself having sex with women without consequence, okay? Like, what the hell? I hadn't remembered that. I'm still like somewhat traumatized. And when I talked to Candace, I was like, Candice, like, well, eh. And she was like, oh, yeah, that was a real thing. and people would just come up and tell me, men would just come up at parties and tell me their, you know, pretty disgusting stories or whatever. This was normal.

It cannot be overstated what we were dealing with in the 90s. And I know as my own personal self, I was always team big because I projected onto him in the same way that she projected into him that he was in love with her. And this is just the difficulties of being a man in our culture that you can't express yourself. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Right? Well, I think right now we're experiencing a little bit of like the Mandela effect when it comes to Big because your perspective on Big was the pervasive experience of many people watching this show.

100%. And I think it's really easy now to look back with a 2026 lens on Big and forget that at that time, yes, we were. It was normal. It was normal. Yes. And he's not even like a horrible offender. Exactly. So that's the difficult thing about I love that we look back on all these shows now.

And I certainly appreciate, you know, the reassessment and all of that. Right. But I think what's missing often in these conversations is the critical context of how these shows were experienced at the time. 100%. And that in order to reflect on them, we need to recognize the reaction of fandom as it existed then in order to bring into the conversation how it exists today. Well put. So well put. I was looking at my notes because I wanted to see her, what she's her, her thought, her, her, her, her, her, main, you know, question that she gives for her column. And I have it here. Ready? Relationships, no matter how good are inevitably a series of compromises, but how much of ourselves should we,

should we be willing to sacrifice for the other person before we stop being ourselves? In a relationship, when does the art of compromise become compromising? So good. So good. Good forever. Right? Yeah. Like always, always, always a central question to any relationships. I believe. Yeah. And this is what I love about the show, right? Like we could talk about big, we can talk about Aden, we can talk about the country, we can talk about the mud, but the central premise is forever.

Yeah. You know? And also this will haunt her and her relationship with Berger as well. And as you said, this is the question that so many of us face in our relationships. All the time. All the time. All the time. I can't ever figure this out.

This is why I'm not in a relationship. Other than the fact that I'm raising two children, which is its own kind of, you know, thing. all-encompassing thing when I had totally forgotten that Samantha goes to the country and has sex with a very sexy farmer And the funny thing again speaking about the economy of plot

Yeah she doesn't go to the That's the back half of the episode So you have this whole Carries already at the country Comes back to the city Then is like which of you girls is coming with me convinces Samantha Right I'm in Connecticut trying to have sex

With my man and get pregnant You sure are. You sure are. He's in the bathtub with Bunny. It's like, of course. Steve has testicular cancer. Yes. Oh my God.

I mean, it's a lot. Then we're treated to a Miranda Aiden scene, which are some of my favorites, because we don't get a time. I always love sort of when we have the men interacting with not their main woman. Me too, me too. I love like that. When we have that Steve Carey scene. So good.

They're so good together. Yeah. I love seeing that. So I love getting to see Aiden and Miranda together. And also, I like the fact that Aiden gets to experience. the Miranda that Miranda is around Carrie. Totally, because also she doesn't think he's there, right? And this is just for everyone who might not remember.

So Carrie is upstairs with Aiden. Aidan's trying to convince her to come to the country. And then she goes, well, Miranda's coming to get me. I've got to go. She's trying to get out of the conversation. And then she goes, I'm just going to go down to Miranda. Miranda buzzes on the buzzer. And then Miranda goes, now I'm coming up because she doesn't know Aiden's there, right?

So she's just in her Miranda. I'm going to, I've got something I got to talk about or whatever. And then she goes up and gets this very funny little monologue. She doesn't expect Aiden to be there. And then she's like, why is Steve trying to call me? And he's like, well, you should call him back. And he goes, oh, what? Is he still in love with me?

And he misses me because that other girlfriend, whatever, her name is gone. She goes on a little monologue, a little self-centered monologue. And then he goes, Steve has testicular cancer. And she just like, oh, God, I'm horrible. Like, it's so good. Yes. I think some of my favorite Cynthia moments are just any pie in the face moment in reaction shot of Miranda.

Do you think it was wrong of Aiden to deliver the news to her? Because when I was rewatching this time, I was like, he starts by saying, I think you should call Steve. Steve has something he wants to tell you. Right. Which then, understandably, Miranda's like, just tell me now. Right. But I'm just wondering is like that news that Steve should have delivered to Miranda.

I mean, yes and no. I think that now I've lived life a long time. Unfortunately, known people who have had cancer too many times to say. I do think that if you have somebody who is a lot of, important to the other person who has cancer and that person's not calling them back and it thinks that it has to do with romance. Just cut to the, cut to the real important part because they're going to be over there tripping. And you've got to get them back back to what's important. And I love the whole, I had forgotten all of the different machinations or whatever you want to call it of

her dealing with him, yelling at him in the park. It's incredible. I mean, it's so good. It's so great because, as is the case so often on the show, you really are able to understand both perspectives in the scene. And this is like one of those moments where I love Miranda so much, that pragmatism and the being like, listen, this is cancer, it's serious,

there is a way it is dealt with. This is black and white. You are gray. This is no time for gray. And so you need me to step in and make this right for you. And she's right. And she's right.

And then at the end of the episode, he appreciates it. Which is nice. I'm so happy they got to that. I couldn't remember any of this. So I was watching like, oh, God, oh, God, she's yelling in him and he's got cancer. And he's Steve. And so you're like, oh, God, she's going to hurt him.

But then, you know, he hasn't asked these questions. He is like a child, right? And she needs to ask these questions. And then she goes to her law people and gets like referrals or whatever. And then he's like, no, Miranda, no. But then in the end, she's right. And then she's stay. Well, wait, we left out when she gets some Chinese food.

And he's like, I'm going home because he doesn't want to be, you know, the cancer patient or whatever. But it is funny because you're like, Like, why is Miranda acting like that? Totally. And I love, I love, there's so many great moments on this show of like watching Miranda acting. I mean, I think about her when she was pretending to be the flight attendant. Oh, so good. Like I love when Miranda isn't acting mode.

Me too. It's funny you say that because even you as the viewer, not even being a proxy of Steve's, just as the viewer like, wait a minute. You're coming on a little strong here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm seeing the performance. He's not going to buy that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Back it off a bit. But she's trying, which is so sweet. Yes. So sweet. Experience Harry Styles live in London, England at Wembley Stadium. This is Harry Styles. IHeart Radio wants to send you and a mate across the pond with flights from Virgin Atlantic, hotel from TripCentral.ca, tickets, and $1,000 cash.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between

songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app. podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself.

I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now

and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them?

On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring, women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going from the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel like you don't feel like. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeke. The ability to show a gold medal to sign.

someone have their face light up and smile. That means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard.

Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart. Heart Women's Sports. In this episode with Samantha, what I particularly love about this plot, there are these special plot lines that occur, especially in the early seasons of sex in the city, where you're like, it's such a seemingly random plotline, which the plotline for Samantha is that she's fucking a lot of guys, and they keep saying after the fact, they keep asking what she's doing this weekend. And that, for some reason, really bothers Samantha.

And I just love the idea of thinking about this writer's room and where someone, Someone offered that up and they're like, that should be Samantha's story for the week. And I say that complimentary. I like that. No, I agree. Because it's just seemingly, when you think about everything else that's going on with all these other characters, these sort of like big story-driven things. You know, we're talking about Steve's cancer and Carrie not sure about how much she can compromise around this house and stuff. Right.

And for Samantha, the big problem is guys are asking what she's up to this weekend. But you know why? Yeah, tell me. Right? Because she's about to meet Richard. Yes. And get into a relationship. She also tries to be in a relationship with Sonia, which goes horribly wrong, which was a horrible idea.

Let's just be honest. A horrible idea. So it's in the back of her mind that she wants to try this thing that she hasn't been wanting to do. So I think that the men she's fucking asking her, what are they doing on the weekend, is relating to the fact that we're now going to shift gears. And that was something that Michael Patrick would always plan out, right? Like your ups and downs of your arc. You know what I'm saying? I love it.

Yeah. And he would sit us down and tell us beforehand, like this is what? what your arc's going to be, right? Which is cool. One, I love, too, that it's like, you think that Samantha is coming out to the country to sort of be there for Carrie and that her storyline is going to be in support of Carrie.

No. Because this is sex in the city, of course. Samantha goes on her own little side journey. Well, because she's Samantha. Yeah, of course. Yeah, if it was Charlotte, she would have been making that pie with her. Totally.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Charlotte is in Connecticut with Bunny, who is being so sweet to her. She tries to give her an orchid. Yeah. But then it goes wrong. It does. It does because the bathtub, which is also, I remember wearing my tennis whites because I was always nervous about wearing my tennis white's tennis skirt scare me.

But I remember being up there in the greenhouse because it's so beautiful, right? Such a beautiful setting and so waspy and wonderful. But I had forgotten that the bathtub scene was also in this and that he then tries to defend the bathtub scene and tells me about how a nanny raised him. And the only time he saw his mother was a bath time when she told him about her. her day, which is fascinating. It is fascinating. It really, you're not sure as a viewer how to feel about all of it. Right.

Because on the one hand, you're like, the obvious, this is really weird. And then he kind of gives you some context and you're kind of like, oh, this is sad. Right. But then I sort of reverted back to sad, but still weird. Right, because he's a grown-up. Yeah. And also because she's strange and because she was played by Franny, who's incredible and so warm, you know, rewatching,

it really lands for me, how strange? You know what I mean? Because at the time, I'm loving Franny, I'm loving Kyle, you know what I mean? And I know that Charlotte's in the weirdness of it all, but I had to work at that, you know, because really I just loved everybody and everybody was great, and it was so much fun to have my own storyline like this

with these incredible actors, you know what I'm saying? And obviously I really wanted Charlotte to get everything she wanted. And I love Kyle and I together. It's fun to watch, you know, and I don't know what's going to happen. I didn't remember that he was going to sit me down and tell me this thing. I didn't remember any of this. I really enjoyed it. I didn't remember that we had sex in the hot house.

You sure did. I know. It's funny. It's so easy to erase the memory of just last season and the entire storyline and his impotence. And it's like, I forgot that once you moved past that, you really had a blooming sex life. I forgot as well. Kyle had to tell me when he came on. I was like, oh, I very.

vaguely remember. You know what I mean? But we kissed so much from the time that he shows up. You know what I mean? Like that first episode, we're just smacking mouths just all the time. So for me, it's separate, like the chemistry was always there, right? So then I, and I know intellectually, yes, that we had this problem because there had to be a problem, right? And that was the plan that Michael had told me what the plan was.

But then Kyle was Kyle. And so we had to amend the plan. Because, geez. can't get rid of Kyle got to keep him as long as we can keep him but then it was interesting because he still has issues

like his issue is still like when I feel the urge we've just got to go ahead I don't care about ovulation I don't care about the baby he's not he's like a kid in a way but it's like to go back to like the theme of the episode of compromise

I think as a viewer I'm thinking this behavior that we're seeing from him it's like I can see how Charlotte can acquiesce to like make this work because like the impotence thing, it's like, okay. No, that was rough. Yeah.

But once you got past that, all of this kind of behavior, like the stuff, even like with Bunny in the bathroom, it's like, I can dismiss that as just some weird behavior of trays, chalked up to childhood stuff that I don't need to take on. Oh, definitely. And she clearly says to him, I am not going to be that kind of mother. Absolutely. You know, so she's trying to kind of create something fresh. And she's redoing the house, you know, and the dimmers.

I had someone tell me last week, like, every time I move my dimmer, I think of Charlotte. I was like, why? It's because that cool shot through the chandelier. Wow. Do you mean? Do you remember? I was like, wow, that's so cool. I don't remember doing that.

It's awesome. Imagine your impact is such where it's like someone nearly touches a dimmer. It's insane. And you're like, I thought of you. I know, I know. It's luck. It's like luck to get that part. Do you know what I mean?

It's luck that you don't even know that you have. I mean, I know at the time it was special, but you could never dream. You would think it would be like the big moments that, you know, of course. see like the canon moments that you can understand, oh, of course people remember blah, blah, right, right, right. But it's like the idea that something as innocuous as like the dimmer. Oh, right.

That's what they think of you. No, it's crazy. I love it so much. I mean, it's incredible. But that's because everyone on the team was at their top. Production design. Totally. Computer operator.

Like I saw a picture on, because my feed serves this to me all day, of Sarah in the beautiful white dress. I can't remember who made it outside the fountain. Not the aid in time. but the big time when she goes, you know, your girl is lovely. And he goes, you know, I just don't get it. And she's like, you never did.

That is an incredible scene? First season? End of first season? Two, thank you so much. Joe Collins, who is our focus polar, is in the background wearing like a cowboy hat or something crazy. Because it's like 100 and some degrees in the summer.

You know what I mean? And he went on to be like a huge DP. And rightly so. Like, we loved him so much. Like all these people were so integral to every moment of a show. It has such a, it's obviously it's the needle drops. It's the visual language of the show. Obviously the costumes, there's so much.

You know what comes to mind when we're having this conversation? I love the shot at the end with Carrie and Samantha waiting to hail the cab afterwards. Yeah, yeah. On Fifth Avenue. The way it's shot, you can feel the temperature. You know what I mean? Yes. And also it's one of like, there are obviously some like canonical Carrie Samantha scene.

But this one is not as non-canon. And yet, I love this moment. It's adorable because they laugh. Yeah, they're just being so cute with each other. They're so cute. It's just some throw-way dialogue. And they're both at their best. They look amazing, obviously.

Yes, yes. And it's also, it does this close-up shot where you can see the light twinkling. When I was watching, I was like, wait a minute. I was like, is this a green screen? But then, of course, it's not. Oh, no, no. And it goes to why. Of course, I know, it's stupid me.

It's okay. It goes to why, and you literally, and you see the calves and everything, and you're just like, it's already such a beautiful shot. And then to know that, you know, where it was filmed and the two of them together, it's just... I agree. It crackles. No, I agree. I agree.

And I mean, I think we knew that at the time. And I know that Sarah Jessica was always, like, there would be times in the season where either it was really cold when we first started working because we would work in, like, February through August. Or we would be over budget and we would go inside. Like, the scenes would start being inside. And she would go to them and she'd be like, no, we have to go back outside. We have to be on the street. It is the DNA of the show. We have to see our shoes.

You can't be only in close-ups. We have to see our shoes. She was so, so smart. And they'd be like, yes, yes, yes. And Michael Patrick would be like, yes, we have to find the money. We have to get back on the street. Because it was so expensive. Of course.

At the time. It's worse. I mean, there's so many shots I can think of, especially from those early seasons where, like, it's an outdoor scene and you look down deep, deep into the shot. And you just see someone two blocks down crossing the street. And you're just like, you know that you're not on a set.

You actually see New York, New Yorking. That's right. Yeah, I miss it. I wish more shows. I know. It's not easy to do. Of course not. But I think that because I think it's so appreciated, the difficulty of it, I think is worth it.

Oh, and we loved it. Yeah. I mean, because when you're on a sound stage, and this is actually the reason Sarah Jessica did sign on to the show. You know, people talk about how she got cold feet, which she doesn't feel like is an appropriate description. The reason that she didn't want to do the show is because she'd done regular. shows on lots. And it's hard because you're in this very bubbly, like static world, like a set, you know, where you're having to kind of generate the energy.

Whereas when you're here, you're surrounded by the energy. Yeah. It's incredible. I will say for all of your gripes with love story, one thing I really loved about the show is that they shot on location here in New York. They shot at Indochene, at Odian, all these places. And I know for me as a lover and longtime New Yorker getting to see. a show in 2026 shot around New York City.

Good job. I just appreciated it. I didn't watch it. I just want to say I didn't watch it. I have like a fundamental. I just don't think they should do that. Fair. But if they did do it, I'm glad that they shot here.

And I'm glad that people who I can appreciate now that there are people who didn't really know everything and not that that was a factual telling. I'm pretty sure based on what I've seen. Like maybe not everything was fact or if things were disputed. or whatever, but I guess there's a whole generation of people who don't really know about it. So from that perspective, I can appreciate it. That was not my first thought. When I heard about it, my first thought was like, oh, it's too soon.

Please don't. You know, I feel very protective. I get it. Yeah. Experience Harry Styles live in London, England at Wembley Stadium. This is Harry Styles. IR Radio wants to send you an mate across the pond with flights from Virgin Atlantic. Hotel from TripCentral.com.

tickets and $1,000 cash. Here we got it! Download the free IHartRadio app. Listen to IHart new music for 10 minutes. Enter to win. Every day is another chance to see Harry Styles. Very excited to see you at the show. Kiss all the time, disco occasionally, available now. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mike. Nike Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Rolls. and Gavis. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen, she went. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted.

She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app. or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Life throws hurdles big and small.

The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't

do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeke. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports.

Let me just explain to everyone, as much as I know, which I don't know everything, and I think you know more and I want to hear all of your input. Okay. As I see it, podcast kind of started slowly, right? Like, how long have you been doing your? yours. I've been doing mine for five. Amazing. So you were, you got in there at the right time at the beginning,ish. I feel like I'm late. You think you're late? I think about like, I'm definitely late. I think about like Mark Marin and like those people that were doing it like in the early 2010. I feel like they were like the frontiers. 100% yes. 100% I forgot. Yes, that is the first generation

for sure, for sure. And genius, genius level. But I at like five years ago, people offered me podcasts. And I was so like, I don't know, I don't know. It was a big leap in my mind that I would somehow be just like, blah, blah, blah, blah. Do you know what I mean? Like, as I am now doing, it was a big leap and I was scared. And also because we, it was right around, it was COVID-ish, like coming out of COVID, and we were about to go do and just like that.

And doing it just like that in some ways allowed me to look back at the show. I mean, everyone wanted me to rewatch. I should say that. didn't say that clearly. I wasn't ready to rewatch. You know, I wasn't ready. I always was afraid of living in the past. You know, like when you're known predominantly for one thing, you're just trying to live in the now and maybe create something else, but mostly just live in the now and not be somehow always back there, right? Well, and let's also mention the fact it was a very different environment back then. The water wasn't as warm. I think it was perceived by many people if you spent

your time looking back at your past projects, that you suddenly became like a legacy act. Definitely. And now that so many people are doing it, it makes it such where there's an entire environment where you can kind of look at other people and the success that they've had in this space. So I understand the hesitation to be like,

by doing it for some people, it could be perceived as like you're done making your mark in a new way. And instead you're putting, it's like a stop point and you're saying, okay, I'm ready to look back. But that was a really intellectual version of it. Mine was just like a more emotional version of like, like for instance, I don't have a lot of pictures in my house. I have pictures of my kids, but I don't have any work pictures.

Like there's some people you go to their house and they'll have like portraits and whatnot or river. I don't have any of that because number one, I just want to be here now like with my feet on the planet Earth. You know what I mean? The only picture I have of the first show is in my closet, my own personal space and it's the time cover that says who needs a husband. Because it makes me laugh. I really love it. It's adorable. And so funny that we got to do that.

And we didn't ask them to put that title. They just put that title. Like it's so kind of incredible to think of. And I feel like it was like 2001 or something, like, you know, a while ago. So that makes me laugh. So it's in there because it makes me chuckle. And then I have a picture of all of us at the non-premere premiere premiere when it was the writers and actors strike in whatever year that was in my office. Right.

But like very little is what I'm trying to say. So just the idea of going backwards mentally and emotionally to me seems slightly dangerous, right? But it's been incredible because, number one, as I was telling you before we came in here, I don't remember this fourth season at all. It's incredible. I'm watching it like for the first time I laugh out loud. I cried. I mean my motherboard myself.

My God, it will floor you. And I remember it as being incredible. But yet when I'm watching it, I'm. I'm 100% in it as a viewer, right? And that is such a gift. And I don't think it was possible for me to do before. I had always seen every episode as we were making them, right? But when you're watching them, when you're making them, it's a very different,

you're watching as an actor, what did I do that worked? What did I do that didn't work? What did they keep? What did they cut? What angle did they use? Which take did they? There's so many things that you're learning by watching it, right? You're not experiencing it so much, right?

Now I can fully experience it. And it's so fucking good. And I'm so happy. Do you know what I mean? I thought that it was. It's not that I didn't, right? But it helps me understand, A, why people are still reacting to it,

all these many, many years later. Also, what we were saying culturally, you know, that definitely plays a part. But also there was this intensity to the fans that was slightly perplexing and a little confusing for a while, like just the intensity with which they would like come and you know hug us and whatnot or whatever it was like hard to figure out and now I really get it because the show just creates this warmth when you watch it

like like a togetherness and acceptance and non-judgment and like it's such a good vibe yeah I mean I feel like it has remarkable inertia that's what I'm I always think about when I'm watching Sex and the City. Like once it begins, it's just off the races. It's exactly what he wants to do. And it gets from start to finish seamlessly. Yeah. But also, what really stands out for me and distinguishes Sex and the City from so many other shows is the plot density.

Yeah. And this episode is a great example of it. It's remarkable in just a half hour how much you're able to accomplish both from a this happened and also from a character-building perspective. Yeah. And so I, when I look back about all the things I love about the show, obviously there's like the performances and the costumes and all of that. But one thing that really stands out to me when I do rewatches is like, I can't believe this is the episode where one, two, three, four, five, six things all happened. Yeah.

And that happens in so many episodes. Oh, no, it's incredible. Yeah. Oh, the writing. Unbelievable. The writing. And we knew at the time also, right? We knew that intellectually.

But also to look back because I can remember, I know like the general. right of what happened but I don't remember when and then like each scene is so good you're like oh my god each scene is so good okay so now that we've established that it's fun it's it makes my job as this podcast so much fun right because a I'm getting to relive it in a different way and be I'm getting to share it with whoever I have on and you guys all have such kind of clear and fascinating takes on it all. You don't what I mean? I mean, that's how I choose people, right? That you're going to have something to say. And you've been out there saying incredibly interesting things about us for quite some time. So thank you. Thank you. But I just said, too, it's like one thing I've loved

about the journey of Are You a Charlotte, which is like, this is its own entity unto itself. Yeah. Is watching you experience through so many of your fantastic guests, them reflecting back the things that stood out to them or moments that they learned a life lesson from something on this show. And I really understand from your perspective when you're inside of something, I think fans have this expectation that you are going to share the memories and the core meaning is going to be the same to you. You know, it's like I wrote the oral history of Buffy and one of my big takeaways from interviewing so many of those actors is there are these moments that mean so much to people like me that were just another day on set for them or they just don't

remember. And so you have to sort of, you, the fan, have to untangle your, the meaning of it for you and understand that it's not the meaning for them and that doesn't make it less meaningful for you. Totally. But you putting yourself in this seat and having so many people reflecting that to you, I find that to be really remarkable to watch and listen to. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, it's sometimes really surprising what people say too. Really surprising. And one of the things I wanted to do, and I get to do this a lot of the time, though, you're, you're, you're, your own entity, right, which I love because you have this, you know, you are looking at things culturally from a deeper perspective, which is exactly what I want to do here, right? But also,

sometimes when I have actors on, you know, I don't know what they're going to say. It's super interesting. Like Jacob, who played Sam Jones, the young Sam Jones, did you listen to that one? Yes, they did. That one was great. What a trip. Like, I love that because when actors are coming on, right, we don't always get to spend enough time with them. And I never met him because I wasn't in his storyline. You don't know what's going on with them. You don't know what they remember, what their experience was. I love to hear about that. The actor that you had on from Hot Child in the City. Oh yeah, yeah. Cade. Yeah. He was so fascinating. And also one thing you really realize is doing one guest spot on this series 25 plus years ago, that can be a defining moment in their

careers. And that can be the thing that people come up to them on the street, despite these amazing careers so many of them have had. Right. Being a day player on a show. like this, it has such resonance. Right, but who knew? Like, we didn't know. You know what I mean? We were just trying to find the best people and, you know, our casting people were so amazing. We were getting Broadway actors. Then we were getting unknowns like himself. And now he's, I mean, he was known in like some skate world or something. Whatever. What did he tell me? He had a very fascinating. He really did. I know. I know. I'm glad you tracked him down. Yeah. Right. No, I know. I mean, we, we make an effort. We make an effort to track the people down. And sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I can't get John Corbett to come on. So there's that. I know, John. He's not listening, but if anyone runs into him, please. I'm hopeful for you. I think eventually. I mean, I'm chipping away, Evan. Maybe for the season six premiere. Because he's that little cameo where he comes back. Is it the season, see, this is where I don't remember. I know he's in Morocco because he and Bo were staying next door to me. Right. So in the season six premiere, Carrie runs into him and that's when she first meets tape. Wait, that's when that. Oh. Yeah. So I'm saying John can come back then. Or if you get to the movies, he can come back then. I mean, look, I'm trying, and it may take that long to talk about. It may never happen. But I appreciate your resilience. You know, it is something I have.

It is something that I have, the Charlotte has. People still like to ask me the things that are similar, the things that are different. We are persistent. Yes. I know. But he's way stubborn. And that is funny, too, because, like, obviously, I know these people, right? So obviously when I'm looking back to and watching their work, they're so good.

Because sometimes, I mean, I can see their wheels turning, like John especially because Aiden is interesting and complicated. And in this particular episode, Sex in the Country, which in my mind is one of the most fascinating episodes because I remember like you're doing what, you're going where. Like it was totally different than anything we had done at all, correct? Right. Oh, absolutely. I think of you as the expert. So tell me if I remember. Okay. And I remember Sarah Jessica lost her voice, which I think is the only time I can remember this happened. I was always losing my voice because I have allergies and we were always having to be out in the middle of the night, like shouting Michael Patrick wants everything perfect and loud, right? Like you're on stage, even though you're miced. She went to wherever they went to film it, suffering, whatever. And the squirrel, you know how she has to squeal at the squirrel twice and then yell at Aden for a while. totally lost her voice. Like nothing would come out the next day. And it was such a panic because she never misses work. She's always 100%.

She could have a fever and she's still going to hit those marks and say her cues. Like she is hardcore. It was a horrible drama for her that she couldn't speak, you know? So that's what I remember. Right. And also like they went away, you know, and all of us, I think we were in town. I think this would have been when we would have at a certain point in production. we would have two units going, right?

So we would crossboard, always having two episodes at once because we needed to crossboard the locations, but that was totally normal for us, right? Like everyone always thinks it's weird, totally normal. Because obviously, you're seeing the 30 minutes or 25 minutes, but it's more like a movie for us when we're filming, right? Because there were so many scenes that were so short and then woven together by the voiceover, right?

So one director would be doing two with one DP, and then another director with a different DP would probably be overlapping because we were behind, because we were always behind, because we were overly ambitious, which is our DNA. I mean, it's remarkable.

It's so funny. It's a learn from this podcast and from so many interviews that you all have done, the rigor of making this show, and you look at the television landscape today, six episode seasons, eight episode seasons, and you look at what you all were doing,

the Herculean effort, and that attempt at perfection and how you so often were able to land it. Thank you. For me at the time, I remember that we had this pressure. And I don't know if it was our pressure that we applied or just like a cultural pressure where we felt like we didn't want to tell everyone all these things, right?

That we would just like, people would always say, and they still say, like, wasn't it fun? And you'd be like, yes. I mean, it was, but it was very hard work. I mean, it was all night until the sun came up. We would only stop shooting because we could not. shoot exteriors that were supposed to be night when the sun is rising. That is the only reason that we would stop. You know, it was on and on and on like that. But then, so that was Friday

into Saturday, but then Monday morning you had to start at five. So you had to somehow turn your sleep around. And everyone would be like, what are you doing this weekend? And different people in your lives would be like, let's go to the theater. Let's do this, let's do that. I had a special pair of shoes that was a half a size bigger that I would wear on the weekend because my feet were in such pain, right? Like there were so many things. Not that I'm complaining. I was thrilled. Right? But it just took a, it was like a physical, like an athlete or a, you know, like it's hard. Yeah. But also you have to look good. You know what I mean? It's a lot of things.

And you have to appreciate the fact that you get this opportunity even though it's a lot of work and it's stressful and it's tiring. And look, you do appreciate. Of course. I mean, I was beyond thrilled the entire time, including and just like that. Yes. One can be appreciative and exhausted in the same graph. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly true. London, England at Wembley Stadium. This is Harry Styles. IHart Radio wants to send you and a mate across the pond with flights from Virgin Atlantic,

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart women's sports. The hardest part in the back in the day was not just being fully honest about it or whatever, right? Like I remember like I used to wish because there was a scene, I don't know if we've come to it yet, where I'm looking in the mirror in my bedroom and it's like a close up. They put the camera behind me. I am looking in a mirror and I had to hold really still so that it, the reflection would be right for the camera and they're kind of like dollying around me and then they come to my real face. And I can't remember if I'm flucking my eyebrows. And it was for a line in the voiceover, right?

It's for a carry line when she would kind of like place each of us in Uptown and on the west side. You know how she does. It was that. And it was maybe 4 a.m. And I'm trying to look really good in the mirror, plucking my eyebrows possibly. And do you remember this? I don't. Yeah, it's a weird thing.

But the reason I remember it is that I just really used to feel like that there should just be a little cry on at the bottom of the screen that was like, please understand it is 4 a.m. But of course, that was never going to happen because it would. would ruin the fantasy. But you know what I'm saying? It was a lot of pressure to live up to what we wanted it to be, you know, and what the fans wanted and what we thought they wanted, right? It's a lot.

But, I mean, I did love it and I still love it. You know, I would go back tomorrow. One day, I hope. Right? Yeah. Good. I liked, I interviewed Sarah Jessica a few months ago out in the Hamptons, and I liked the way she articulated it.

Wait for the book? This was at the very end. This is like the week before. Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I liked the way she articulated. I had to ask the obligatory, is this the end?

Please ask. And I liked the way that she kind of answered with an ellipses. And it was like, this is the end for now. Right. And who knows, we said it was the end in 2004. Yes. We've said it was the end before. We've been through it a lot.

And so I appreciate that sort of just like, never say never. That's right. That's right. Never say never. And Michael Patrick is really the one that we have to ask. And every time I see him, I'm just like, I'm not going to ask him. I'm not going to ask him. I'm not going to ask him.

but I will ask him, and he knows I want to ask him, but I'm going to really try to give him a break, because it's a lot of pressure. Of course, but you think about how many, you know, IPs that exist that we never thought we would see again. I mean, I'm thinking about, like, you know, Practical Magic 2 is coming out as a great example. So excited.

But one would have never thought. No. This was, and it's a beloved movie, but it's not top of mind. No. And people weren't clamoring for a sequel to Practical Magic. Not to say we aren't very excited that it's here. Right.

But it's just to say that there are so many things that one thinks have run their course that when presented, whether it be timing or opportunity, when brought forth and breathe new life into, hocus, another example. Like, you know. So I think that there's always the opportunity, even when you don't expect it, that something from the past can come back once again. Right. Well, I expect it because I feel that we have been through this incredible journey.

And the reason that we've been through the incredible journey is because of the fans, right? Because you can't come back if there aren't fans. I mean, the good news about it just like that, a lot of people love it. Of course. Thank God. And a lot of people who are women over 50 or over 40 love it. And thank you, everyone. That's what I want to say.

Because I didn't necessarily think that was making, who we were making it for. I don't necessarily think of like the end products when we're making it, right? I just trust Michael and I trust Sarah and I trust Cynthia and I trust everyone involved. but not enough people make shows for those people. You know what I'm saying? And I'm happy that we did it, and I'm happy that they love it. And I don't care if there's 10 of them.

I would make more just for those 10 people. I'd watch more. Thanks, Evan. I'd happily watch more. I mean, yeah, it's trippy. I don't know if I have too deep a feeling, but sometimes when you talk about Michael and it makes me think about how much I love him

and how much I just really want to work with everybody forever, You know what I mean? Totally. And there's so many people that want to see you all work together forever. I hope so. I hope so. And I feel like we have, we probably have numerous things left. But like I do think we have one more something, like next chapter.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Because why wouldn't we? Yeah. Right? I would like, because you know, it's like you had the six seasons of the show, two movies, three seasons of in just like that. Obviously I know there's the Sexless City Three.

It never happened. I think it could be an opportunity to revise and reimagine. We can't because you know why? Why? Because that was the death of big. Sex and City 3. No, I'm saying. Got it,

so I just mean the title, Sex and the City 3rd. Oh, got it, got it. We've reimagined the storyline. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But I'm just saying this could be, so it's like what is it? Is it a special? But I will say, too, it's like you look at like what the Malcolm in the middle reboot did, which is that they brought back the show for four episodes.

Oh, I didn't know that. It's a one and done. Interesting. know what you call it. It's like, it's a revival, but it's a mini-series. Okay. But anyway, they brought the band back together, four episodes, in and out. Wow. I like that. And I think that, like, I wonder if it, I think it's been very well received.

I wonder if then all of a sudden they're like, okay, maybe we do this again in next year or in five years, or maybe we bring the show back entirely. Right. But I think that there could be some sort of new formation, whether it be another film, a comeback for a set of episodes, something, something. I think because a show is so hard, right? Like an ongoing show is the hardest thing in my mind to do. And that's why I have so much appreciation for our first one now that I'm reliving it. Right. It's like, as you said, it's just incredible.

The writing is just beyond incredible. It's very, very fucking hard to do. Right. So I think in my mind what I want, and I don't know what Michael wants, right? But what I want, I want a movie. It can be on HBO and Max, right? It doesn't have to be in the movie theaters because that's a whole drama. I do love the movie theaters.

I need to be on record. I love the movie theaters. I want you guys on the big screen. You do? Yeah. That is the sweetest. Yeah. Thanks, babe.

We need it. That's so nice. I mean, look, it was really fun. Look at what's happening right now with, like, the event of Devil Ware's product, too. Good point. And people going to the theaters and dressing up just as they did for the first two movies. I actually think fans deserve this to be in theaters so that they have the collective experience of getting dolled up, bringing their girlfriends, bringing their gaze, what have you.

So I actually, we need this in theaters. Okay. I like that. We're going to tell Michael Patrick this. Great. We're going to see what he can dream up. I love it. I mean, I'm down for any of it, obviously, right?

And I'm going to be better situated to block out the negativity, do you know what? Because I was somewhat blindsided by it because I was out in the world trying to do this podcast, right? And as an actor, it's just like, oh, how do I get out of this? Because now it's in my head. Can I tell you, though, not to get like too meta. Please. Yeah. I've really enjoyed the instances on the podcast in which you've opened up about what it was like experiencing that. And I want to say something.

It's like, as you said, it's algorithm, right? It's not just you going and seeking this out because you're an actor on the show and because algorithms exist as they do. and because you have this podcast, a lot of that negativity is being foisted onto you. And so I can imagine that creates, that's so complicated. So few people are in an instance where they are part of something that is such a phenomenon that has this new iteration that is met with both love and people that have a lot to say. You can say hate. Okay, we'll say hate.

But I have a lot of, I have compassion for that and an appreciation for you being so honest on this podcast about what it's like. as an actor to love something and have it, have something that you thought was going to be received one way, be received with so much conversation, good and bad. That's weird and unusual. And I understand that you're still figuring out how you felt about it, how you feel about it,

how other people's feelings inform yours. And so you having this podcast where you're both rewatching the show, but opening up about that, I found that really enriching as a listen. I'm so glad. Thank you. It's real. Thank you. It's like my little. therapy sessions. It's very real. That's for sure. I'm not good at being fake. You know, I'm not great at it. Right. I'm a horrible liar. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I, that's why I love also doing it, right, doing this podcast because it is, it is such an interesting thing because I'm getting, I choose you guys very carefully, right? My guests are, you know, really carefully chosen, but also bring so much to me and help me in my process of figuring it all out.

which is super interesting for me. Well, that's why I think your approach this podcast is really smart because I like that you're obviously bringing in the writers and the actors and what have you, but also like a random guest star or I loved like when you had Marcia Crosson

who's a fan of the show but you also have this history with. So again, you're treating your listeners to so much complexity in terms of the characters that you're bringing into the world of Are You a Charlotte? Thank you.

Because I just, I loved like just, I came away from that so endeared both by you and Marsha but also your friendship. Yeah. And so I think it's really fun how you have some people that are on the inside, some people completely on the outside, but some people like Marcia who like have a proximity to the experience.

Yes, well, because we were friends before it happened and she remembers it happening. And knows what it's like in her own right to be a part of a cultural phenomenon. Yes, it's so special. So you can relate on that very unique level. Yes. And also sometimes because she was, I mean, when I said I spent, I spent like three years with her. I mean, I literally spent like three calendar years with Marsha. Like we were in the same place in the same time in our lives, right?

Which was like we'd had some success. She'd had more success than me. But also we wanted different things. We were trying to create like a bigger life for ourselves. Like I remember she had this house that I still drive by all the time. And I'm like, oh, Marcia's old house. Which she said she still owns and rents out, which is so great. She was the first like other actress.

I knew who had a house, right? And I was like, I should rent a house. I'm going to rent a house. I'm going to have this for myself with a garden. It's going to be amazing. But that was because I saw her doing it, right? Like she was ahead of me in some ways. But also we could be together in it all, you know,

and the craziness of being on Melrose and, you know, just going to the magazine rack every day in Santa Monica and doing Pilates. And, you know, we were in that world together and, like, there for each other in such a wonderful, incredible way that you really need people when you're trying to be an actor or trying to do anything in life that's hard, right? Which I think everything's hard now personally, right?

like those people that you just can rely on and they're in it with you, you know? So to get to, and then we would see each other once Housewives hit and we hit, we'd be these like she-she parties. I remember one time we were at some Louis Vuitton thing and I was like, my shots all across the room. Like I'm so excited. And then we would be at the award shows together. Like it was incredible. She'd be over with her group and we'd be over with our group, you know. So it's just so great to get to see them again and rehash it all and have different perspective on it.

Totally. Because we're still in it. It's so crazy. I also think people love listening to actors as fans of other entities. So having people like Marcia and the others that you've had on this podcast that themselves are famous but are a fan. Yeah, it's so nice. I mean, there's a beautiful parisotiality about it.

Absolutely. Which is people getting to recognize that like everyone is a fan of something. Absolutely. And so often it's the show. Absolutely. And I mean, we're so lucky that that's true. And I remember I have two things going on my head at the same time because you're you and you have interesting experiences.

this. One thing that I did think of because one of the things Sarah's coming tomorrow, and one of the things I wanted to start talking to her about was the experience of us starting to get nominated and going to the award shows. She previously, because she was such a success before us, had gone to the Oscars and things. But like once, for me, I just remember the, I think this is partly why I don't remember the show as much, because this is around the time that we start getting really nominated. Like, the first time we got nominated for Golden Globe, we won it. And all of us are just like, not her, but the rest of us are just like, What, like, just deer in the headlights beyond. Michael Patrick's got his curls. It was raining that day. But the thing that I remember, and this was such a good memory that has really panned out in my 30 years in the business, is that maybe more than that. I don't know. We're back, you know, at the Golden Globes, you're in the, you know, the Hilton thingy, whatever it's called. And down, there's like a lower level, which is all the movie people.

And then there's a few steps in an upper level, which is the TV people, which is great because you can watch the movie people, right? You're watching it all. You're watching who's talking to who, whatever. It's like super cool when you first go. I mean, it's quite incredible. So we're up there. I'm wearing a Richard Tyler dress that I got out of the window because I drove by it on Melrose and I liked it. I didn't have a stylist, you already mean? So Jessica is also wearing a beautiful Richard Tyler dress, which was just a random coincidence because Richard Tyler was couture that he made by hand. in Los Angeles, which is rare. So we were there.

It rained. My hair's a frizzy mess. Like it looks like I just got out of the shower, right? Like it doesn't seem like I'm wearing makeup, though. I'm sure I had a professional makeup artist, but we're like, we don't know what the heck we're doing, right? It's fine. It's adorable. We're there.

They call our name. And we're up there in our TV world and we have to make it all the way down to the stage. And we're just like, wow. Oh, my God. In like the front row is Julianne Moore. And I think she is going to levitate out of her seat. She's clapping so hard. She's just like,

like, literally like it is the best thing that ever happened to her. And I remember just being like, Julianne Moore is clapping for us. Oh my God. She knows who we are. She's seen the show. Like, you're just having these like layers of realization. And later on we talked and we're, she's still, I mean, she's obviously just an incredible, genuine, incredibly kind person and her husband Bart also like the whole time.

our biggest fans. And Bart then told me a whole story about how when they had their kids and we'd be on the TV and their daughter would be like, mommy, when I would come on. Is that not so horrible? That's adorable. Even though like totally different hair color, but we have a similar vibe. Do what I mean? Yeah. Like they're just the sweetest. And you, you come and it's not to say their business isn't crazy and there's weirdness that happens and obviously whatever. But genuinely, people are incredibly supportive. And that was my first experience of it. And what I wanted to talk to Sarjesska about

was when we start that whole process. And it's such a crazy, you know, windy thing. But the other thing I wanted to talk to you about heated rivalry. Because it reminds me of this, right? Right, because you had a moment. You were asked about this on a carpet. And I had a crazy, because I was in it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay? I was in it. And then I saw Hudson be like, ADHD. or something and I was like oh my god he's talking about me and yes apparently I have ADHD I'm learning through this podcast but whatever I've gotten this far we're just going to roll with it are you learning this or people are telling this to you people keep telling it to me it's fine Benny told me he was like yeah I've got it too you know whatever journey so he says two and

you're like wait two also right right no because people comment on my thing that I that I that I that I interrupt everyone and like don't, don't follow a plan and shit like that. You got to love the fans. I know, right? They let you know it all. Look, they're not wrong.

Okay, I get it. I get it. But you know what? It's fun. You got to be you. Right. And it's fun. And when I get people who also,

like Marsha, when she was on, she was like 80s, I'm like, oh my God. Yes. It's fun. But you're much more, when I listen to your interviews, I'm impressed because you have a plan

and you, and you are also in the moment, but you also have a plan. But I want to talk to you a little bit about hated rivalry because I've never gotten the guys on. I obviously passionately love it. I also have been reliving. I think that part of the reason, and I don't know what you think and I want to know, because we didn't know who they were, the actors, right? We were able, as a collective audience, to have this initial experience. I didn't know the book, right? Which is most of us, I know there's a big group of people who knew the book,

but we didn't know the actors and we were able to watch it fresh, right? Not knowing, we didn't know that Connor was so different than Ilya. We know now and it's fucking fascinating, right? But like when we watched it, we could have this whole experience fresh, you know, and fresh to the actors and fall in love with them collectively. And I feel like that's what happened to us with Sex and City. Totally. Right?

With the exception of Sarah and Kim, people knew, obviously, from Manichin or whatever. But the alchemy of it was fresh. Yeah. And I feel like that's what happened with heated rivalry. And that's kind of similar to what happened with us. And then you're just like shot out of a cannon in a certain way. More so for them, obviously. It's like incredible.

And I think they're holding it together really well. But you've talked to them. What do you think? Well, it's interesting you say that because I think audiences always, but I think especially right now, there's something about discoverability. Yeah. That people really like. And I think about like baby reindeer as another example.

I think about loves. story as another example of this where it's like these... I have mixed feelings on that one. Having been alive for the actual experience, I'm not. But that's not the actor's fault. It's not the actor's fault. But more just watching

these actors kind of win the interests and adoration of so many fans. It's just people really like discovering new talent. It's powerful. It's really powerful. And I thought something about the heated rivalry, the strategy that I thought was really

interesting was, and people forget this now because it all happened so fast, but during the five weeks that that show aired, because it only aired for five weeks, because the first two episodes were released at once. So it was a five week window for the show. During those five weeks, they did very little press. Right, which was fantastic. And so it created the sense that during the actual run of the show, not only were we discovering these two people, but they weren't on magazine covers. No, they were like real people. The characters were real people. They weren't on late night shows. We had no entry point into, as you said, the distance between Connor and Ilya.

And I think that was really powerful. And I don't even know if it was a purposeful strategy so much as just... No, I think it was because they were in Canada and then HBO bought them and they didn't have time. Okay, wait, there's all this interest in the show. Let's do a formal press tour. Yes, yes. But it was perfect. But I think that really added to it, which was that they, during the run of the show,

they very much seemed like these actors who had just been dropped. into our ether. Totally. And that's what they were. Yes. And so I'll be really curious going into season two now that they're like bonafide superstars what that will look like. But Jacob is a genius as far as I'm concerned. Oh, absolutely. Like genius level.

Like that episode five, I mean, when they did interview me, it was when we gave Sarah Jessica, her Carol Burnett Award is where we were. And it was January, right? So I was a little late to it. My HBO algorithm kept showing it to me. And I was like, high schoolers playing hockey. Why does it think I want to watch this? I had no idea what it was.

I was like, they keep showing to me these youngsters playing hockey. I could not be less interested. Well, really, I was super wrong because then I started and I was literally, it is like a powerful thing when you are in it. Yes. And I, like, would dream about it. Like, it was so intense. So they interviewed me in the middle of it. And I'm like, you guys, I say like really like.

And, you know, it was a lot. It was a lot. When I see it, I'm also like, oh, Kristen, you should not be that honest on a red carpet. You should always be yourself. That's why people love you. And I think also people are starved for monoculture, starved for phenomena. Yeah. And so I think people just like. Collective energy. Yes. Collect. And also I will say like, there have been a lot of conversations about the turn in the heated rivalry fandom and things getting more toxic. But for the. But for the. Oh, you mean about their personal lives? No, about the fandom in general and sort of, that's a whole other conversation. No, do not be toxic people. Try.

Do not be toxic. Try. But needless to say, I think that people were really just excited. I know I was, especially at the time, of just like watching the purity of a bunch of people falling in love with this show and getting to collectively love on it. Yes. And feeling the feelings. Like the feelings, I think that because romantic comedy has somehow gotten a bad name, right? Like in the culture.

Yes. I just talked to a director the other day who's got. a book that she's making, she's not calling it a romantic comedy because people feel very scared about it. Actors. She's just calling it a romance, which it kind of is.

It's got some drama. It's a mix, right, of things, which obviously Sex and the City does as well. But we were always thought of as a rom-com, I think. I'm not totally sure. I mean, why do we even have to have labels, really, right? But in our business, we do because that's how

studios think of things. Yeah, people need to put things in boxes. Yes. and think about the audience and who are we making this for, et cetera, et cetera. But I think that, you know, we used to be able to just make a bunch of rom-coms

that were high concept, like the one where Julie Roberts runs away, runaway bride, right? Like wacky, but fantastic, but wacky, right? But who cares? You can make a leap and go with it. We got to a point, I believe, where people, audiences,

large audiences in general, couldn't make that leap anymore somehow. We'd like run our course in terms of like believability or something. And they maybe the social media of it all or the hate watching or the poking holes and that, whatever it was, caught up with it. And we couldn't just make them and let them have breath, right? So for me, what he did rivalry did was reclaim it. And we needed two closeted gay hockey players to do it.

And a genius creator, right? Who knew how to structure that episode five. I mean, that episode five structure and the joy of watching people on your social media, watching it for the first time, is incredible. And I believe we'll be taught in colleges. Like, it is a fascinating phenomenon of what we as an audience needed because it really should have been in the theaters, right? In a perfect world, do you know what I'm saying? But because it wasn't, and for many reasons, right, like they had been at a bigger streamer who then was giving them notes and saying,

don't kiss in the beginning like fuck off people like you know what I'm saying like people can't let things be right yeah so that's the crazy world we're living in where there's a lot of fear in our business about about audience size and everything whatever so then like Jacob knew okay we've got to go to Canada and just do it how we want to do it good for him amazing and then these actors gave everything they gave everything I don't care if they're gay or straight I don't give a flying you know what because they gave it all right that's all that mattered and that was how I came to to watch it was, hold on his other name. His other name, I want to call him Scott. Laurent, no.

Francois. Oh, our no, yes. When he said everyone leave them alone and don't talk about their personal lives, I was like, wait, my interest is peaked. What? That was why I watched it because I was like, wait, what is happening here? And he was right. It doesn't matter what their personal lives are.

We need to experience this as a pure experience of art. I don't know if they would use that word, but I'm going to use that word, art, right? And that's why, like, straight dudes whose wives convince them to watch it and then film them and then they cry. It's so beautiful. I just love it so much. That's really what I wanted to say. And by the time I was asking them to come on the podcast, they were already like, you know, globe trotting and whatnot, which I'm just thrilled. Well, hopefully they'll be back, though. I'd love to see them on this podcast. For sure. Me too. Me too, me too. I have texted with Francois. So hopefully, we'll, yes, he's a sweetheart. He's a sweetheart. He's a sweet.

They all are. I love them all so much. And I'm so happy that you have talked to them in depth. I got really lucky because I did the interview with Connor between episodes four and five. Yeah. And then I did the interview, my first interview with Hudson, like, I think a few weeks after six. And so I, it was interesting to like meet them at that juncture of, I mean, the train had left the station. Yeah. But it was early. It was early. Yeah. Like at one point, Connor says to you like, I'm not sure what I've said to who, which is, yeah, been there. or Conner, still feel that way. Yeah, I will say,

funny enough, what you're saying about five. So I, as I said, it was between episodes four and five, and HBO had sent me a screener of five,

which I watched that morning before I headed to the interview because they sent it to me that late. Oh, God. You know how screeners go. I do. And so imagine watching that episode five in silo on my laptop in my hotel room.

And not being able to talk to anyone. And having no idea of like, you know, what was going to happen. And so literally, I think I like closed my laptop an hour before I left for the interview. And I'm just like, and again,

I experienced it by myself. so I had no one to gauge. I'm like, this is seismic, right? Yes. So yeah, I was just, that's my, what I remember about that experience.

I could tell because you also couldn't be honest with him about it. You couldn't go, you skirt around. Well, because I also knew that this was going to be airing like after six to come out. You didn't want to ruin it.

You know, you know all the time how it's like, you're trying to talk about something in real time with a person, but you have to fake that it's the future. Really hard. Really hard. But you did a great job.

You did a great job. Because also he's so fresh. Experience. Harry Styles, live in London, England at Wembley Stadium. This is Harry Styles. IHart Radio wants to send you and a mate across the pond, with flights from Virgin Atlantic, hotel from TripCentral.ca, tickets, and $1,000 cash. Here we got to! Download the free IHart Radio app. Listen to IHart new music for 10 minutes. Enter to win. Every day is another chance to see Harry Styles.

Very excited to see you with the show. Kiss all the time, disco occasionally available now. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French, me. And she likes Clay.

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that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs, Gabby Thomas and Katie Ledecki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I heart women's sports.

I have a question. Evan, are you a Charlotte? I think I'm a quintessential carry. You're the first one I've had. I love it. I'm a writer. So I feel like because I just have always, I mean, as I said, carry defender through and through, but also like I've been the person sitting in my

bedroom at my laptop for decades now. And so I've always just related to that. and I've always, I tend to, whenever I watch ensemble series, which are my favorites, I always sort of glob on to the experience of the main character. I'm thinking about, in this moment, like, thinking about Buffy, and so many of the shows that I love, thinking about girls. Like, I love Hannah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's not to say I don't love the incillary characters, I mean, especially on this show. My God. But, yeah, I just feel like a classic fairy. I think it's fantastic. Almost no one says that, which I think is so interesting. but I also think it's because of the journey of the show, right? Like they might have been a carry at different times, but now they're too analytical about carry.

Well, I also think sometimes the archetype of the show, excuse me, the archetype of the character flattens how people experience them. So, for instance, I think for a lot of people, when you say you are a Samantha, the association is that you're a slut. Right. As opposed to the myriad other things that means to be a Samantha.

100%. And so I think people glob on to like one aspect of the character to define the character. I agree totally. And that's what I love about Charlotte, just because, you know, whatever, because she got to be so many things. So it's not as obvious, right?

Like in the beginning it was one thing. Right. But then it grew and grew and grew, right? Which I think is why people can appreciate her now because I had this, whereas Carrie had to, like, had to be all the things in the beginning. And also because everyone's hearing her thoughts. I think people forget that.

You have a different way in which it connects you to her. But I got to say, Carrie, but also like season one, Carrie. Like I love that little, the pricklier carry from season one, I love. You find her prickly in season one. Yeah, she's got a harder edge. She does? Yeah. I think probably because it was more Candice.

That makes sense. Yeah. Because we're really working from the book. You know what I mean? The book was the basis. And Michael Patrick comes, but he hadn't really infused it all yet. Of course. And I got to say, like, I love all the iterations of the show and how it changes.

so much and not just in terms of the storyline in so many ways, visually so many things, and I love all the instances of it, but I have a particular reverence for the grittiness of season one. I mean, yeah, season one's fascinating. In my mind, I've said this on the podcast before. I always thought season one was bad. Yeah. Which is so crazy.

I know. I'm so sorry. And Cynthia would always tell me I was wrong, right? And then I re-rushed, I was like, I was fundamentally tremendously wrong. I think the only reason that I thought that is because I was projecting my own anxiety. that I was living with at that time, right? Of like, can I pull it off? Can I wear the shoes?

Are they going to keep me? Are they not going to keep me? And then also, Darren would sometimes come down. I think I've said this on the podcast. I don't know. It's been a while. And he would be like, you guys, we have to be funny. Okay.

We have to be really funny. And you'd be like, oh, okay. And then like the next day or two, he'd come down and he'd be like, you guys have to be sexy. You have to be really, really sexy. And I'd be like, but me? Because the script is. is still the same.

Like, what do you mean? Like, how? You know what I'm saying? Like, because we didn't know and we were finding and nothing had aired. So we didn't know if people were just going to be like up in arms or hate us or what. And I think he was, you know, potentially carrying all that, you know, in his creator mind, like, what are we? Who are we? You know what I mean?

So that anxiety, I think, infused my vision of it all. Whereas now I look back and I'm like, yeah, we're this and we're that. and it's so physically dark and, you know, so you feel downtown so much when you're watching it. Yeah, and season one feels particularly 90s

in the best way. Yeah. Well, because we filmed the 98, so it would make sense. I love the fashion in season one. Not Charlott's, I'm sorry. No. Maybe less Charlott's.

Yeah, because we had not found Charlotte yet. There's a struggle. And we had no money. Molly came on and told us, Molly Rogers, you know, was with Pat the whole thing. time. And she told

this, we had a Molly and you on this podcast, that's a key. It's a whole podcast, right? Anytime.

I'm like, baby, she invited me to go to the devil where it's part of premiere, but I couldn't go. And I was like,

also why would I be there? It would be weird, but I just wanted to be with her, do you know what I mean? Because she's been out there and I'm so

happy she's out there so much, but I'm also like I want to be with her. Do you know what? I love her so passionately. She's such a special, special person.

But she reminded me that our budget for the costumes of season one was $10,000. Can you believe that? I can believe it because it's like there was a scrappiness that I so appreciate. And no one was lending us clothes. Like Sarah would bring her dress from home for the naked dress. And we were better for it.

Listen. No. No, we were. You made iconography. You made it work. Like it's great to have the resources. Your kind. If you would have started with those resources from season one, I don't think it would

have, it's like, you know. Yeah, everything is the sum of its parts. But it's like, I think that, again, there's so many aspects of season one that like built it up and made it such where and you had your season six budget, it's like you grew from season one. Well, in season six it wasn't even really even the budget either.

It was just people just freely lending like right off the runway. You know what I mean? Like it was a dream for us, you know, and then we would return it all because we were good girls. You are so much fun. You have to come all the time

but you're going to be too busy with the Netflix which I can't wait to see. But I'm so happy to be here. When will we see it? The premiere is May 1st. Okay. Yes. Twice a week.

Twice a week. Incredible. Yes. It couldn't have me to a better person. Thank you. That's so nice of you. I'm so excited. I love this podcast.

So I'm so excited to be here. I appreciate you so much, Evan. Thank you for being here. My pleasure. Can't wait to watch on Netflix. Thank you. Very exciting. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mike. Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions

about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Winning on Clay is an art.

The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast. for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennarabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kier,

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