Are You A Charlotte? - Catching Up with Friends: Jacob Pitts

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

Jacob Pitts enlightens us with his fabulous stories from his episode of Sex and the City when his character college student Sam Jones meets our very own Samantha Jones. And, because it’s Samantha they obviously sleep together.We get some real insight on what a modesty pouch is…and how he picked his!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey, I'm Jay Chetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Hillary Duff, singer, actress, and multi-platinum artist. You desire in family like this picture, and that's not reality. My sister and I don't speak. It's definitely a very painful part of my life. And I hope it's not forever, but it's for right. now. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know Roll Doll. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy?

In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roll Doll, I'll tell you that story, and much, much more. What? You probably won't believe it either. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? Evidence has been made to fit. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed.

What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to doubt the case of Lucy Lettby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Warning. This recording contains discussions of eating disorders, body image, and potentially triggering topics related to food and mental health. These subjects may be sensitive for some listeners. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, everyone.

Welcome to Are You a Charlotte? Today we have a very fascinating guest in catching up with friends. His name is Jacob Pitts, and he plays the other Sam Jones in episode 17 of season three. What Goes Around Comes Around. He is the young NYU student that Samantha Jones ends up having sex with. I'm sure you all remember him because he was incredible, which is partly why we wanted to track him down and talk to him. And he does not disappoint, you guys.

He's super fascinating. He's gone on to have a really great career. He was in the Pacific on HBO. He was unjustified with Timothy Oliphant, Walt and Goggins, which I totally forgot to talk to him about because he was so incredibly interesting. All right. Please enjoy my conversation with Jacob Pitts. Hello.

Hi. Thank you for joining us. Jacob Pitts. Very exciting. We really, really wanted you on. You did. Yes. Yes, because you play a very unusual and interesting character, your young self.

So take me back. So first of all, I am pretty sure this is, we just watched this episode. So we were like, who is that kid? He's amazing playing the other Sam Jones. And you look like you might be 17 or something. You look so young. So tell us, tell us. Well, I was, it was interesting.

you say a very unusual character. I think I was very unusual at that point in my life. In a good way? Not always. No. Okay. Okay. Tell us more. Tell us more. Well, I think I was about 20 going on 12. And yeah, I think I was not to start out really dark, but I believe I was in the throes of some kind of anorexia. No. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no.

I'd done a Broadway play, and I saw some photo of myself that I saw recently again in the last couple years, and I thought I looked chunky. I saw it in the last couple years, of course, I saw it. I don't like, I don't like chunky at all. And I got obsessed with doing unendurable. durable things like running seven miles a day and only buying products that had zero fat in it. Oh, no. Yeah, I could go on. There's some stuff that I once described to a friend of mine.

He said, that sounds like psychosis. Oh, no. I was perfect for the part at the time. I mean, fully perfect for the part. But separate from that, I think it's so interesting to hear from an actor talking about it because we're all human, right? And we're in this really weird situation where our visual, selves are a huge part of what we're doing, like what our job is, what we love, what we're committed

to. I mean, did you feel like that was part of it, that you took that picture? The odd thing is, that's not the sort of thing I worried about at all. Like, it wasn't like it was that I can remember. It just, I saw that in the picture and then I became obsessed with that. I go from obsession to obsession throughout my life. Fair enough. Fair enough. I feel similar. I feel similar. to that, yes. Yes. And it's all about moderating the obsession, right? Yeah, or finding a less terrifying one. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I'm sober. I'm a long time sober. And I started 11. Thank you so much. I started drinking at 11. Correct. Yes, I know. Insane, right? Insane.

But it was a screwdriver, you know, orange juice and vodka. And I was in some ways able to do that because I was in the theater. in a very not professional way in South Carolina. And so I was always around adults. You know, I'm very old. So it was the 70s. And there was not a lot of like supervision in a weird way. You know what I mean? So if you had that like, you know, genetic leaning or whatever it might be.

Yeah. And I had read recently with anorexia that they're looking at, there's a set of genes that they're looking at as being part of what might make you prone to that, which I think is super interesting. Well, I've never had ever since I forget what it was that I think it was the run, the long distance running and I justified to myself I could eat anything I wanted at that point. But I've never had a bout or worry about other than being just a vain actor type, but I've never had a, you know, worry about that otherwise.

Interesting. So it just, you saw this picture and then you became obsessed. I was obsessed for a better part of a year, I would say, yeah. Wow, and our show came in the middle of that. Yeah, and I, yeah, I was, I was only allowing myself to eat once my stomach was ravenous. Just some terrible yop play and peaches or something like that. Wow. So that manic energy that you have in the part that was real.

Wow. So, okay, before we discussed the part some more, how did you get out of this phase? Like, what happened to get you out of there? Well, I think it was that. I think, well, it was the long distance running. Uh-huh. Where I then decided I could eat anything I want. And then I think I just found my way to marijuana.

Okay, that's probably less dangerous, right? Well, no, because then that delusions of its own. Oh, no. Oh, my God. Well, can I say, first of all, you seem super young. Like even, I mean, your energetics are so perfect for the part because you look really young. And you're thin, which I think kind of makes you look young. in a way, you know what I'm saying?

Like boyish, very, very boyish. I kind of, the boy undeveloped body kind of thing. Definitely, definitely. And then where, like... I was a regular old twink. Where, why, how did you come to audition for our part for our, for our show? I don't know. They just sent me there.

So you're acting at this point, like, fully. You're living in New York. Yeah, I was living in New York. Oh, man. I don't know how much of this I want to reveal. You don't have to reveal anything you don't want to reveal. to you're already fascinating, okay? Well, you know it was interesting watching the episode was that I've seen it three times now.

Okay. And the second time I watched it, I was too connected to that kid. So I kind of watched it like this. Sure. And the third, this time, though, it was just, it was that first feeling I've ever had of, that's just a totally different person. It's not even, you know, you've had that feeling. For sure.

Sure. Yes. And so it was kind of a relief in that sense. But I thought, oh, this poor kid, because I remember all the delusions he had and the crazy, you know. Yeah, friendless. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. Oh, no.

That's so sad. You know, a few years before I got a real friend. So I was really good for that part. I was a real weirdo. I mean, you were perfect, perfect casting. I'm sorry that I, you know, didn't see you, and I hope that somebody in our world was kind to you. You're not sorry, you didn't see.

I'm not. Okay. No, they were great. I was actually thinking about everyone was fine who I met. Good. I was, I, I, I, I watched that, and I thought, that is, I was running on pure instinct at that point. I had moved to New York about a year and a half earlier.

And I started with just the most terrible acting school you could possibly, like the most discouraging I don't want to do any more acting classes after this kind of school. Oh, no. It was just, you know, they broke it up into things like we actually had a course called the history of sitcoms. Oh. Yeah, really kind of sketchy stuff that I'm like, do we need to be studying this? Yeah, that's odd. I remember we had a scene study class with, there were a sister and brother in the class.

Okay. And we had pretty much cycled through all the partner ups you could. Uh-oh. And at the end, this sister and brother were partnered in a scene as lovers. No! Yeah, that's how bad it was. That's not good. And so I didn't have, and I don't know what it was.

I couldn't, no one could talk to me. I don't think. I had that, I've since found out a bunch of my friends of the same age and kind of experience had the same experience where we would somehow, I think it was that I was looking to get into the business post-Titanic and they saw me as any kind of DiCaprio-esque kid who could yell a sentence or two with eviction. It just picked him up and said, let's see which one's. That's amazing.

I love that because I also, I do feel like that's a big thing, right? Like someone hits so big like, like Leo did when he was really like his breakout, whatever. And everyone's like, where's someone like him? But, you know, good for you that you were in there. And I mean, sad that you were in a scary acting class. But obviously you persevered.

You've worked tons since then. And we got you like, like what, first acting job, second acting job? Third or fourth. Okay. Third or fourth, yeah. So you were really doing pretty well. I mean, that's pretty good for that age, don't you think?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I was fantastic. Yeah. I had no appreciation of work at whatsoever. I mean, I don't think you do when you're young, but also you had a lot going on. So maybe you weren't really like, you know, grounded thinking about it, right? Definitely not.

Interesting. The thing about it is I, you know, James Dean was an idol of mine. And I only knew what I'd retained from. some weird biographies. There was actually a Robert Altman documentary about him in Black and was one of the earliest things Robert Altman ever did. Wow. But I just remembered stories about him pulling a switchblade on directors and being unpredictable and real. Oh no. And I didn't, this acting class didn't give me anything. I didn't have, I didn't, I didn't grasp a single thing. Wow. If they had anything to teach me. And maybe if you could teach me

anything. I couldn't hear it because I was such a sheltered delusional kid. I needed to be this great James Dean genius. Wow. No one could direct. No one could handle. Wow. Yeah, it's crazy delusion. I mean, it's fascinating. And there was a scene in the in the party scene in this episode when Samantha and Kerry first come up to me and I put a solo cup almost on a plastic inflatable cactus. Yeah. And at the time, I wanted to do the idea of just letting it go onto the cactus and spill out everywhere and do everything.

But I didn't know, I didn't have the experience where I could go, go to the director, go to the cast, see if they want to do that. Right. It's just in my head, be like, no, it's got to be. surprised. They can't know. Wow. Wow. Then I didn't have the balls to go through with it because I didn't want to ruin that's probably good. That's probably good. Yeah. But it was that kind of mentality. Interesting. So, but I love the, I love the kind of naive ambition of it all, you know, because sometimes I feel like young actors are just trying to play it safe. You know what I'm saying? Like, especially

maybe nowadays, um, where like I'm always pushing people who are young. to try to like step out like try something you you know you really think they're playing it safe these days some that I know some that I know I don't want to call anyone out here on the podcast but um I feel like it might be somehow related to social media I don't know if that's true or not but like I'm sure it's true right like some kind of perception that they have about how they should just be like kind of flat and natural all the time you know I don't know you're you're you're Gen X no yeah I mean I'm I mean is really. So you had, but you had the thing where I don't, I grew up, this is the thing I've observed

is that I grew up on various cartoons and sitcoms where they always had a moral or a lesson at the end of the episode. Yeah. And they all had the one where, you know, what was the one? Carlton got in trouble this week because he wanted to be cool for Will's friends from Philadelphia. Yes, yes. What he learned was that you shouldn't care what other people think and that you should just be yourself. But that's great.

I think that's great. Did these kids grow up with any of that? I don't think they did. They ever got that special episode? It doesn't seem like it. It doesn't seem like it. I mean, the interesting thing is I think also it's weird to be a young person acting, right? So like you might have maybe a lot of supervision because people don't want to, you know, the safety.

People are worried about safety. I don't know. I don't know what it is. But I do know that there's a bunch of young people that I. I was like, you know, act. You know what I'm saying? Like, go. Whereas, like, for us, we were all looking at De Niro and Meryl Streep and, you know, like, actors,

like real actors where we wanted to be super, like, serious and risky and, you know, emotional and all of those things. And I don't know if that's what they are looking at now is being their kind of their idols. You know what I'm saying? And, like, for me, everything that you're saying separate from the fact that you were in a very dark place, which I feel really bad. I didn't know it though. I didn't know it.

Got it. Got it. I wouldn't have known it if you told me. Wow. Wow. Amazing. But like for me, I think that's partly why I really wanted to talk to you is that here you are so young.

And our show and our show at this point, third season is pretty big. Like it's pretty successful. I don't know if you were aware of that. No. Amazing. Because you're just so bold in the part. I mean, it's written as bold, obviously. Like you play Sam Jones.

you know, Samantha Jones gets these phone calls just in case anyone hasn't watched it this week or whatever. And your friends start calling our Samantha saying, you know, we're coming to your party. And she's like, what party is this? And who's this other Sam Jones? And how come I haven't met him? And oh, he has an address that's near Washington Square Park. He must be rich. But of course, you're in a dorm at NYU.

It's also hysterical. So she and Carrie end up at your party with a bunch of young people, college age kids. and then she eventually, you basically say something to the effect of, you know, I must be the wrong Sam Jones because I'm still a virgin. Like you just blurt out to her at the party, which is adorable. And she's like, oh. And then she leaves. Thank God. Because I was nervous.

I was like, no, Sam, don't do it. Because I don't remember a lot of things when I look back, right? Like certainly other people's storylines, I don't remember what's going to happen. But then she does relent. And I can't remember right now why she relents, even though I just watched it. But she does, you, I'm pretty, I'm pretty force. I kind of force myself. You do.

You're like, you have a lot. You're very persuasive. Yeah. Definitely a lot of energy. And also like you seem just very sure of yourself, you know, like, even just watching you as an actor, I thought that young actor is very sure of himself. Like, wow. I'm so impressed.

And then you guys have very athletic sex and you're very, very funny in the sex. Very, very funny. your faces and everything. It's very entertaining. And then you tell her, you love her, like a little puppy dog, like so sweet at the end. And then she's like, bye-bye. And then you go like down in a dark, dark freak out, which is also so adorable because normally that's what you see women doing, right?

And you're like, Samantha at the door. Sam Jones, Sam Jones. So I have so many questions. Number one, do you remember anything filming it in particular? other than that you had a theory that you were going to put the drink all over everyone. I remember very little. What I do remember is, well, there were only two days, I think. Yeah, but you packed a lot in.

I remember Alan Coulter giving direction. Yeah. I don't know if this is your experience, but anytime he had something for me, he was like. Definitely. With his hand like this and he would be like. Definitely. That's him. To a thing.

And then I remember it was my first experience with the modesty pouch. Sure. Yes. And they gave me two options, the skin colored thong and the Tarzan G-string. Yes. And they say, which do you want? And I remember going, whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought this was HBO.

No one would want to see what happens? Oh, Jesus. Yeah, exactly, delusional. And I thought I was, and Kim, and Kim Cottrell was like, no, but this is Kim Cottrell. I'm not going to do that. And I was like, okay, so I took the Tarzan thing. Okay, okay. Next Monday, our 2026 IHeard podcast awards are happening live at South by Southwest.

It's the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative. of talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. IHeartRadio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome.

Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific, free at Veeps.com or the Veeps app. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have, his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

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Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, Roaldol, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans. What?

And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Doll got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock. before writing a hit James Bond film.

How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to The Secret World of Roll Doll on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Do you remember why you have the accent that you have? Because you're from Connecticut, correct? Correct, yes. So what happened?

Well, I think I could be wrong. I think there was something, and I think it was in the audition scene as well. I thought there was some reference in the script to Texan. Oh. If there was, I missed it, but cool. I don't know. I didn't think they, I think I didn't, because when we start fucking, they played like a jingly, jangly banjo kind of e-haw.

They did. That's true. I feel like that was always baked in somehow. Got it. I thought maybe it was Coulter, who has an accent, kind of. Like, not exactly the same, but like a little Southern isms kind of to him. I didn't know where that came from, but I love it as a choice. I don't think it came from me. I don't think I don't.

Well, you committed to it. You committed to it in a very adorable way, very adorable. I was doing my best Joe Buck there. Yeah, it was good. It was really good. It was just, as I said, it was. so different from the normal, like, guy parts on our show, which are, like, often a little bland-ish. I don't want to criticize them all, but, and then until we find out whatever makes the

relationship go wrong, right? But, like, you were just full on out there the whole time. Like, I thought it was so, so, so fantastic and perfect, and that you were so young doing that, I thought was just super interesting. And I'm curious what your experience was like, if you can remember when it aired. Well, I went to a couple of my friends from that terrible acting school had HBO, and they were in Union, New Jersey. So I went over to Union to watch it. Okay. And so that was that was that.

Did they like it? Like were you, were they oppressed? Okay, okay. Did people shout at you on the street and say like, Sam Jones? No. No. I really have not. It's the funny thing is like I feel like I'm seldom recognized for that.

Understandably, because you're like a grown-up now. But I mean, it's like every seven years somebody recognizes me from it, or I find myself in a conversation where they're like, but you're Sam Jones. You know, you're like, it's a really famous thing, right? Really? No, yeah. I'm like, okay, well, it is. It stands out. It really does.

But then six years of silence from the world passes and then another somebody comes up and is like, you're Sam Jones. Right? And I'm like, is it? I think it's because you don't seem like you're insane. You know, like that's probably a good thing that you're not walking around, like, shouting manic things, right? If that's going to get me the people, the recognition I deserve, then we'll see. Okay. If you feel one day like you need a little recognition, just start shouting names, either saying. James or anyone's name, I bet you could get some attention. Well, I think it's really amazing. And I'm sorry that you were like running seven miles a day and not really eating when you were

with us. But I'm so glad that you found your way out of it. You know, you can achieve certain states of bliss when you're starving yourself. That is so, so true. Not that we recommend that to anyone. No, it's not endorsed. Right. Definitely. Amazing the endurance of the human metabolism. That's so true. But also like just so fast. And I know as, I mean, I think I've probably gone on record many a time talking about the crazy dieting that I've done through my career. Yeah. So, so bad. Probably not, I don't think to the extent that you're describing, because I probably would have remembered my lines at a certain point. You know what I'm saying? Like at a certain point, you can't really function, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would just break down and eat French fries or something. But I mean, I've,

I've gone on really long times where I'm like eating M&Ms. Like I would just have some thing where I'd be like, I'm just going to eat M&M's. Yes. Like so bad. So bad. And you can really kind of go for a while like that, you know? It's interesting. Yeah.

It's not great. Not great. Not great for your health. But, but yeah, when you're, you know, like if you have some scene and in your young mind, you've built it up, you know, and you're nervous and you're not going to wear a lot of clothes or you've got really tight clothes or whatever it is. and you're like, I just have to make it to that scene, so I'm just not going to eat till then, you know?

Like craziness. Craziness actors do. I mean, everyone, I guess everyone does this, right? I mean, I don't know if everyone, but people are prone to be doing things like this. Yeah, yeah, it's maybe with actors, it's more transient because it is attached to a job as opposed to something that's so baked in neuroses, maybe.

It's true. It's true, though I do think, I think our neuroses are, you know, baked in and then kind of like stirred by the job. You know what I'm saying? Like, I certainly had a lot of people telling me that I wasn't thin enough, right? Like, it wasn't just me, you know? I mean, yeah. Yeah, I mean, the stuff they tell you in this business that's accepted as normal is,

uh, yeah. Pretty bonkers. Yeah. You, you wonder what kind of person you'd be if you never had done this. I mean, absolutely. But I also feel, and I mean, this is just me, but I also feel like if I hadn't had a job where I was able to express myself, I don't know what would have happened to me either, right? That's true. You know, like it's positive, negatives. You know, it's like the thing when in, I don't know, hanging out in L.A.

or trying to make more my way into the improv scene for a while and these be finding myself in these constant contests of one-upmanship and. strange high school kind of mentality and being insecure and always trying to be the wittiest in the room and then finding myself hanging out with my cousins or people who are not in the business at all and all of a sudden feeling oh, I'm like Robin Williams

to normal people. Yes. But to entertainers, I'm like not definitely not Robin Williams. Yes, it's a good point. It's a really good point. And I do think you kind of get into like an insular thing of like when you're in New York or L.A.

trying to do the, you know, the job and hanging with all the people, you can feel like, gosh, I'm like this wallpaper. You know what I mean? Like I'm nothing. Then you go out in the real world. You're like, oh, yeah, no, no, no, no, don't fit in here either. You know what I mean? Like, it's interesting.

It's really interesting. So I'm also curious because you've gone on to do many, many TV shows and things, all kind of stuff. Do you like it? Like, what was your favorite job? I think pound for pound my favorite job, which was another starving one, was the Pacific for HBO. Yeah, that was really good. It was very intense. And we were all starving ourselves because those guys were supposed to be starving.

Yeah. Yeah. And it felt like it's a very serious subject. we were being watched by actual Marines, some of whom were cycling back to Iraq at the time. Wow. And that for them, the Pacific Theater was like their, their Lord of the Rings, I suppose. Wow. And so you felt a great responsibility to not ham your way through it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And so it felt, and we didn't have, you know, you didn't, the mentality, about it was anyone who used a set chair or who you indulged in any of the creature comforts who didn't who didn't participate in the push-up contests or the stupid we do it just felt like it felt like a real not a real job but it felt like it didn't feel like you were the spoiled actor on set and everybody else was you know lifted you lifted your weapon you lifted your machine gun emplacement. And you carried it with you.

Wow. Incredible. I mean, what an amazing job to be a part of. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah. That's fantastic. I mean, that's what we all want, right? Something that's like bigger than us that you're just lucky to be a part of.

Yeah. I wish they did, you know, boot camp for romantic comedies and stuff. That would be interesting and funny. I mean, first of all, we'd have to get someone to make some romantic comedies, which right now really no one's doing sadly. I think sadly, though I don't know, I mean, I don't know if you've seen, I don't know if you watch TV, but have you seen heated rivalry? No, but I've certainly heard about it. The thing that I love about, I love many things about it, but one thing that I love about it, and this I think is, for me as an actor, as someone who's been

part of a romantic comedy for a long time, and, you know, you watch romantic comedies and they kind of go through phases about how they're done and how people respond to them. and it seemed like for a while irony seemed to be very important to romantic comedies. Like people couldn't really buy in without it. And then like at a certain point, there's just kind of like people aren't going to buy in at all. Right. Like so no one's going to make them, which is really sad, of course. He did rivalry about two closeted hockey players has the most powerful romantic comedy payoff at the final episode.

Or wait, it's not even the final episode. It's the fifth episode. It's a six episode thing. The fifth episode, I think. think there's a payoff. Like it's such a kind of almost textbook, romantic comedy type of a scene that if it weren't closeted hockey players, I don't know if audiences could really like buy in and have the full experience of what it is. Like it's so beautifully done. The way they lead up to it, they editing, the writing, all the different parts, you know, the different characters

are interconnected in this scene. It's so beautifully crafted. that it makes me want to watch the whole thing all over again just for the craft of that. You see the piece is being put into place. Yes, and having it actually work, like it kind of blows my mind still just thinking about it, but it makes me think about, you know, like Jacob Tierney, the showrunner,

he should be teaching a romantic comedy boot camp. Do you know what I mean? Because he knows what he's doing. And I'm not saying that other people don't. Obviously, you know, we, I think we did a fantastic job of a very long-term, you know, romantic comedy TV show, which is kind of unheard of, right? Because it's not a sitcom. It's not, you know, like you had a sitcom class, which is also like a very specific art form, right?

But like also weird to have a class of it. I don't know. It's all very weird. But they didn't teach us. The thing is they didn't teach us act. It's not like they taught us sitcom style acting. Oh, no. It just like it began with the honeymooners.

And then it moved on to, I Love Lucy. Wow. And this was Family Robinson or whatever. And it was just bizarre. That is bizarre. I mean, because sitcom acting is hard in its own way, right? Because you've got an audience.

You've got like a set behind you. You have to kind of like, it's like your theater because you can't, you know, you don't want to upstage yourself. But yet you also have to make it seem natural and tell the jokes. I mean, obviously very, uh, we're having like hardcore actor talk now. But, um, like if someone really talks. about that, I think that would be interesting, you know? Though I don't know how many sitcoms were making.

Always found sitcom, four camera stuff is very bizarre. It is very bizarre. I agree. And hard, I find it really hard to do. There was a certain point of the show where I thought, you know, I want to go on some sitcoms because people would talk to me about like, oh, you know, we should develop a sitcom for you when the show was over when Sex and City's over. But I was like, oh, I'm scared.

I don't know about that. So at one point, I went on friends as a guest star. I went on Will & Grace as a guest star. It was really, really fun, but still very terrifying. Like, you'd walk out and they'd all clap, like, like on Broadway where you just have to, like, somehow hold. Oh, yeah, I hate that on Broadway. It's so hard. I hate that on Broadway.

Right? I mean, it's weird. I don't care who it is. It's just you're totally destroying the reality. I agree. And I think the audience means it as a positive thing, right? But as an actor, like, it's very strange. You can pay $900 to see Denzel Washington.

You want to make sure that like, yep, I'm getting my money for it. 100%. 100%. And I think people genuinely love Denzel Washington, right? Or whoever it is, right? So they have a moment where they're like live with them, basically, right? Which is the joy of theater, of course. So they're like, I'm going to show him right in this moment.

I'm going to clap really hard. But as an actor, you're just trying to breathe and like stay still or whatever. Like, it's really, really strange. And then you came on, they clap when you came on. They did. And then you must also feel like I haven't earned, you don't know what I'm going to do. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. It's very weird, right? Because it's not for the part that you're doing. It's just for your general, you know, being or whatever, like sex in the city. But yet you're on friends or your unwilling grace. It was very strange. And mortifying.

Like I felt so like egg was just running down my face. You know what I mean? Like I felt so embarrassed. But everyone's always. super, you know, like James Burroughs was directing Will and Grace, who's like a great, you know, great. Like if you ever want to be on a sitcom, be on a sitcom with James Burroughs directing. He will take care of you.

And he was like, just breathe. Just breathe. Just breathe. Just breathe and hold. Don't, don't ruin the next laugh. Don't keep going because my inner anxiety would be like, I'm just going to push through. I'm just going to keep going. But you kind of can't.

You got to wait. You got to wait. Yeah. It's super interesting. Acting's weird. Don't you think? Do I think it's weird? No.

Really interesting. Okay. You know what I think is weird? What? This is what I think is weird. Tell me. I think it's, I've been very nervous about this whole thing. I have to tell you.

What? Being on my podcast? Yeah. Being any, anytime I've done a red carpet interview or any interview anywhere, I'm incredibly self-conscious about it. I find it interesting that we live in this world where the people who have found a purpose in pretending to be anybody other than themselves are expected somehow to be happy and most joyous when everyone's paying attention to them as they are.

So true. I'm not, I've never been, I think there's species of actors. or there's species of, you know, and I'm not, I've really gotten a lot of respect for Robert De Niro just as a, as a public person because people criticize him for being a terrible interview. But I'm like, he's not a personality. Right. He's not a guy, like he's, and that's, you're not, that's not what's interesting to him. I'm sure he's a fascinating person.

He is. He's definitely fascinating. I don't want I don't care about like it's even saying this right now is terrifying to me I'm going to regret it immediately no no you're great oh my god please don't regret it please don't regret it so this is what I want to say to you I'm not going to regret the whole thing oh thank God I'm going to regret I'm going to no I'm going to yeah no don't regret it because I completely understand what you're saying I'm looking at an empty glass there's nothing here I love it just pretend to drink it okay you're acting go ahead. So this is what I think is so great. I think that there is a general misconception that somehow

actors all want to do stuff like this, right? We all want to do red carpet interviews. We all want to be on talk shows. We all want to be talking and the center of attention. I thought that's what I wanted when I started to, you know, because I think, I don't know, I think a lot of my friends, you know, a lot of people, there's something that makes you want to put yourself in a position where the world adores you. There's some kind of basic lack there. Whole need. And I think what happened to me very early on in the business from what I witnessed is that being famous does not absolve you of being an asshole. And it does not actually make you immortal. No. So what why? You know, And it's, yeah, so that's one of, and those, those, those delusions kind of crumble.

Right. I think that's really great. Then you start coveting fame just because you realize, oh, this is currency and I will work more if I have more of this. Absolutely, which is very real. That's very real. It's unfortunate, but it's very real. Like, it's not talent.

It's the currency of being well known or being your last project or whatever it is. And I think just more of just being, you know, We live in this time now when social media and whatever the kids are into these days. Yes. They are getting TV shows. They are getting represented by huge agencies. People who watch video games online and comment on them. And that's how they make their millions.

What? Yeah, isn't that that guy, Putey Pine? That's what he did. I don't know who you're talking about, but I believe you. I barely, I saw some daily show on him or something. Oh, my God. He's made like hundreds of millions of, like millions and he started. He's just a guy from Norway or something commenting on.

I mean, it's fully bonkers out there, okay? Commenting on video games and that's how he. Well, this is what I think about that. I think that, yes, the world is nuts. And we're living through this humongous change with AI and all the things. And I think that we as actors just have to remain calm, like remain grounded, try to protect ourselves and keep doing what we do. Because I have to believe that in the end,

people are going to be attracted to actual real storytelling, you know, which is what that's actually what we do. That's what we want to do. I agree with you. Right. I agree with you. I think the question might be, will they be able to tell the difference? I think so.

See, I personally think so because I do not think. I mean, I just feel like I also just have to be hopeful because what's the point of not, I, you know, I can't get my mind around the fact that this wouldn't be true. But like, I don't see how, like, you know how, for instance, okay, let's think about you in this part, right? You're like a kid. You're a kid. And you are bold and out there.

and surprising. And I don't even know what you're going to do next when I'm watching it, which is partly why I'm wanting to talk to you today. And you are not disappointing, I want to add, as yourself. So how could AI replicate a human and then surprise us? I don't think it could happen. Do you know what I'm saying? I haven't seen it happen yet.

I don't think it could happen. I suppose. But then don't, there are actors. I have them who I, who are, And this is petty, yes. But I, who star in movies, and I'm not going to name them, but I see them and I know every single movement they're going to make before they do it. I know what you're saying. I may predict everything they're going to do.

That's true. That's true. That's a valid point. That's a valid point. But I also feel like, you know, until we see a successful, you know, show written by AI, which hasn't happened, right? Like we're about to see a bunch of shows about AI writing, right? Like the comeback is going to be coming back. The comeback is coming back on HBO.

And it's going to be about the first sitcom written by AI, which I think is going to be pretty funny because it's Michael Patrick and Lisa Kudrow. But I still am not convinced. Everything that I have seen and or read, like my daughter's 14, she's in school and there's a whole thing about, you know, whether they've used AI for their homework, right? It's like a whole situation. You read the anxious dinner.

generation? Yeah. No joke. They are the anti-anxious generation. It's for real. Oh, it's scary. Yeah, it's scary. Is your daughter, what's your daughter's stat? I'm not, I'm not going to pry into your daughter's life. Yeah, probably not. I shouldn't even bring her up. But it's hard not to because of everything that we're talking about for the young people. We, we remember life before, right? Thank God. You know, they don't really have a life before all this stuff. Like, it's kind of, kind of cuckoo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's people in my people. personal life. Yes, younger people. Younger people. Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Who, uh, who have known. Are they there? Are they in the room? Always there. Okay. Okay. They, they, the concept of when I first met these younger people, a concept of not contacting somebody with like letting contact go for eight hours. with no contact in terms of like, well, I didn't know what you were doing. I didn't know where you were.

I didn't know. I'm from the 90s. Yeah, we're from the analog world. It's true. You don't have to give a report every few hours. It's true. But that person just loves you and wants to know where you are and wants to feel that connection.

I can tell what that person's thinking. It's sweet. You'd be the first one. I love it. Next Monday, our 2026 IHeart podcast awards are happening live at South by Southwest. This is the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is...

Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. IHeart Radio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific free at Veeps.com or the Veeps app. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan.

He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final Rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange, paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search for it. This is unlike anything I've ever

seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. Listen to Love Trapped on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun. Tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Tremaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Termaine was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real.

I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth, until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

EgoWoda is your host for the 20, IHart Podcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks, Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow S&L alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing.

Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks, Dad, with Ego Wodom, and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. You know Roaldol. the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll,

is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans. What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. The guy was a spy.

Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock, before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast.

wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, wait. I had more questions, but you're just too interesting and we're so off on AI. But like, I mean, wow, I'm so happy that you talk to us because first of all,

you're like one of those mystery people who are just on our show once and then they go away. And that's who my podcast people love it when I can find you guys. And all of you are fucking fascinating, okay? I have to give a lot of credit to Jennifer McNamara, our casting agent.

I mean, man, did she find some great people like yourself? incredible. Good for her. Yeah, and good for you for being like, like having these crazy wild ambitions to be James Dean. I fucking love it. Who is your guy or gal? Merrill, Merrill.

I mean, there's nobody but Merrill for us, you know, really. You know what I mean? Like, who could ever? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, there are other people like, I always loved Holly Hunter. Oh, sure. Yeah, because she's Southern and I'm Southern.

So I like that. I mean, there's so many great ones, but when I was really young, it was Merrill, like the French lieutenant's wife, you know, like that kind of like mysterious Merrill. I think all Ironweed is is that scene where she sings, he's my pal. Oh my God, whenever she sings, incredible. That's insane. It's incredible. You know, she's on murder murders in the buildings, only murders in the buildings. I don't know if you watch this show.

and there's an episode in it early on. She plays an actress, a kind of unemployed actress when we first meet her, who's just lived her whole life in this kind of tiny apartment and, you know, has so much talent, but it hasn't worked out for her. And then she gets a part, which is great. But she has an episode where she sings, I mean, only murders in the building making me cry. You know, like just bam, because she's Merrill. No, it's magic.

It's magic. Oof. But yeah. But yeah, I mean, you know, we can, the fun thing, it's fun to remember the life that we used to live, right? Like the purity that we experienced in the analog world. But you know what I love? I love also that we're still here. We're still cranking along.

We were bringing our memories with us, right? Into the future. And it's really, really nice to talk to you. And I appreciate you overcoming your fears or whatever to come on. because wow fantastic episode. Okay, well, okay, that's good to know. Yeah. Oh, my God.

You're super interesting. I could continue to talk to you, but I know we promised you that I wouldn't keep you very long because he didn't want me to, but wow. You know, I wish you had more memories about how your acting class friends responded, but maybe you're just, maybe they've gone with time or maybe they didn't. Oh, it's a while in the first. rear view. Yeah. But if St.

St. Clemente are listening out there, hi. I love it. I love it. I love it. It's fun. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jacob. You're very, very interesting. I'm going to have to follow and watch everything you do now. I barely do anything. Well, I don't think that'll last long. I'll hire you. All right. Okay, great. Have a great day. You see. Okay, bye. 26 IHeart podcast awards are happening live at South by Southwest. This is the biggest night in podcasting.

We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. IHeart Radio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome.

Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific, free at Veeps.com or the Veeps app. Ego Wodam is your host for the 2026 IHart Podcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow S&L alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers.

I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks, Dad, with Ego Wodom, and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. Hey, I'm Jay Chetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Hilary Duff, singer, actress and multi-platinum artist. You desire in family like this picture, and that's not reality. My sister and I don't speak. It's definitely a very painful part of my life.

And I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You know Roll Doll. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roll Doll, I'll tell you that story, and much, much more. What? You probably won't believe it either.

Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Listen to The Secret World of Roll Doll on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story?

The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast Guaranteed human