Are You A Charlotte? - Do Opposites Attract in 2026 with Lala Kent... (S3 E9 "Easy Come, Easy Go")

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

Vanderpump Rules star Lala Kent used to be a Samantha but now finds another character much more relatable and is in sync with who she has become. Lala has strong opinions about Big and Aiden and of them is “bugging” her in this episode.  Kristin and Lala point out something fascinating about the women and their careers vs their love lives.  And, Lala has a hot take about Carrie.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltsin. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. It doesn't matter how much I fight. It doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this.

It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. It's Michelle Williams, host of checking in on the Black Effect Podcast Network. You know, we always say New Year, New Me, but real change starts on the inside. It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your goals. And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need

to step into your next season, whole and empowered. New Year. real you listen to checking game with michelle williams from the black effect podcast network on the i heart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers who catfishes a city is it even safe to snort human remains is that the plot of footloos i'm comedian rory scovill and i'm here to tell you josh dean and i have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast.

Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause? Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it.

When Larry's killed, Gabe Must Untangle a dangerous past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte?

Tell me what you were telling me before about how you have watched the show, or which parts. So, I used to watch, like, random episodes with my best friend in the seventh grade. I don't know if we had any business watching sex in the city in the seventh grade, but we would do it. We would steal her mom's car, go to this place called Cafe Trang, get takeout Chinese food.

In Utah. In Utah. Oh, my God. We Salt Lake. Wow. Come back to her house and just, like, whatever was playing. I guess it, well, you know, when they would do. I don't know what season.

This is probably when it was on E, right? Like, like, was it, did it have the bad words and stuff taken out? No. Oh, okay. Oh, no. we were in it. Wow. So recently, I want to say maybe like five, six months ago, I was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to start sex in the city from start to finish. I am obsessed when I was asked to do this podcast. I was so intimidated. Oh, no. I was like taking

notes on the episode. That's adorable. I can't wait to hear your thoughts. So when you, so, so have you seen the whole thing yet? I have seen. So how many seasons were this? There's six seasons. Yes. Season 1 through 6, I watched all of them. Okay, great. And then I had seen the movies. So now what I've been told, because I was posting throughout as I was watching. Got it. Being like, I just started.

This show is amazing. Everyone's like, this is crazy that you of all people have never seen. That's true. It is a little crazy, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm all about sex and I'm all about it being in the city. And so now I'm going to go back and watch the movies, even though I've seen them. Right.

And then we'll start. And just like that. Exactly. I love it. I love it. I love it. So what, I mean, I wish I had been following along as you were posting, but I have you in person. So I should just hear in person. So, so obviously everyone tells me and I'm rewatching it now for the first time, right? Like I saw each episode as we were going and sometimes it would be rough. It wouldn't be finished. Like there would be music missing or there would be a visual effects missing or things like that, right? But we were always really anxious to see, you know, at least I remember us being in Sir Jessica says she didn't watch. all of it. But I feel like she did. I feel like we talked about it, but that was obviously a very long time ago. But we would run home. We would get VHS from HBO and before it aired, yeah, and go run home and watch it. Because we were, you know, we were so in, in it and of it, like everything was exciting, you know. Of course. Yeah. And then I didn't ever like to rewatch

it when it was on E or on the different, you know, versions of what it was on because it seemed like I would get stuck in the past. Like I didn't want to just sit and think about it. And I would just walk by and be like, oh, look at where we look so young, you know, and just keep going. You know what I'm saying. Do you feel like you were critical? Well, I definitely am critical, but probably more critical when I would first watch it.

Okay. And that has gotten better with time, right? Because now it is 30, almost 30 years later. Wow. Which is insane. There's nothing I can do now about my performance, right? Nope. It's off my shoulders.

Like, for instance, there is a scene in this episode. I have rewatched this episode twice now. Oh, I should tell everybody, we are rewatching easy come, easy go, which I have to say is one of the best episodes. Oh, my gosh, so much happens. It's season three, and it's when I get engaged. So when Kyle recently came on and we discussed, so I had watched all kind of the highlights of the tray relationship.

But then I rewatched it this morning before I was going to see you because it's just such a great episode and so much happened. happens. Yeah. So much happens. But there was a scene in this episode. And I remember at the time also feeling like I didn't do it well. And then when I watched it for Kyle, I also thought I didn't do it well.

And then this third time watching, I was like, no, it's fine. You're like I actually crushed it. I don't know if I crushed it. I never think that way, right? But the scene, when I go to tell Carrie about the engagement. Yeah. I don't love my performance then. And I have a very, very visceral memory of what it was like on the set that day.

because everyone had, when I say everyone, I mean behind the camera, right? Like, it was directed by Charles McDougal, so one of my favorite directors. And Charles is a great director because he doesn't really micromanage. But the way that our show was, our writers were very, very involved. And they were always there. So Michael Patrick King wrote our episode, and he's one of our executive producers.

We love them very much. But also we had a bunch of women writers, and they would all be there. Like, if it was a big scene, everybody would be there. And everyone would basically tell you what they wanted you to do, especially back then. like now I would be like okay guys that's enough like let me just do it right exactly but back then this was really charlotte's first like big storyline you know and like with a lot going on over many episodes and in this beginning with tray we were really laying the groundwork of what was going to happen between me and him right so the whole idea that she's been wanting this proposal wanting this proposal wanting this proposal and then she kind of blows it by basically proposing to herself they wanted me to just be like I don't think they wanted me to be tearful,

but they just wanted me to be in shock. So I'm trying to play shock through an entire scene, which is very hard, like possibly impossible. You know what I'm saying? It's really interesting to hear your perspective on that because that's actually one of my favorite parts where you're at the door and you walk in and you're just like in a fog and you can tell that

here's what I love about the entire show. is as I've gotten older, I see myself at the age of 35 in each of you. There was, for such a long time, it was like, which one are you? Yes. The wind blew the wrong way for Charlotte. And she doesn't do well with that.

No, she has what she, how she wants something to go. Yes. And that's very much me. So when she wanted it so badly at that dinner, and then you're just at Carrie's door. I loved it. You did.

I loved it. Oh, good. Because I felt like there was so much going on in your head that you were still trying to process. Like, I was obsessed. Oh, my God. That's my take on it. That makes me so happy because really you can never be objective about yourself, really. You know what you were trying to do and you know what everyone's telling you to do and you see the work.

Like I can see myself like trying to do what they were telling me to do rather than just kind of breathing and living. but she is just kind of processing, you're right, which is stuck in a way. I felt like what their direction was at the time was a little bit stuck. Like they can get an idea, writers especially can get an idea. But it's hard to act an idea. You have to really go with what's happening. You know what I mean? Of course.

But Charlotte is very in her head, you know? Like in general, right? She has, like you said, the kind of vision of what she wants, right? Or what she's expecting. And then life doesn't live up. up to it, which of course it wouldn't. How could it possibly? You know what I mean? No one can read your mind, right? Which is like a big thing, a big thing with Charlotte forever, really. You know, her vision versus reality. Versus reality. And that's what I, I loved about it. And I loved when you

were at lunch meeting Trey's mom for the first time when you were clocking little things like how I like that too. I like that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just find Charlotte to be so sweet and interesting, and I relate to that as I get older and have more experiences with different types of men. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who did you used to relate to? I used to feel like I was just a Samantha. Like, very much so.

Really? Yes. Even your young self. My young, yes. Wow. The moment that I, I mean, obviously when I first started watching at the age of 14, I didn't relate to any of you. Right, right, right.

You were like, wow. I just couldn't believe I was seeing boobs on, on TV. Totally. Totally. And hearing some crazy words and stuff. Totally. And you're in Utah too. So it's even more, like you're in a very kind of more conservative environment.

Yeah. I was like, this is awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It made you want to get out, I'm sure. Right. The moment that I became sexually active, I was like, oh, I am Samantha's as it gets. Fantastic. That's be free.

That's great. That's so great. And then as you get older, I developed an appreciation. for Miranda where like I have to say by the by the time it was over I was like at this stage of my life even though I can say like I think most women have a piece of each of you yeah as a whole I think I'm mostly Miranda I love that that's super interesting yeah wow wow well let me say I've never seen Vanderpump rules so I don't know I don't have a lot of preconceived notions about you, right? That's great. Yes, it is. It's really nice. Though I have enough knowledge from your

podcast, untraditionally la-la, because you are creating your own life in the way that you want it. And I am, I am of the same thinking. I came from South Carolina, which was very traditional, though my parents weren't really like super preppy or anything like that. But I was surrounded by, you know, everyone talked about wanting to get married and wanting to get engaged and blah, blah, blah. Everybody was blonde. You don't know what I'm saying, the whole thing. And I was an actress from a young age, So I wanted to get out as soon as I could. I just wanted to go to New York, which I eventually did. It took a while.

But I wanted to, you know, have a different life, a more adventurous life, a different life. And I have absolutely had that. Yes. It's been fun. You've had a very fun life. I have. I have had a very fun and adventurous life. How old were you when you left?

I went to college. My dad was a college professor. So I wanted to move directly to New York at 18. And he said no. And he was right because I was not yet sober. And had I moved directly to New York in the 80s, not sober, it would have gone really badly. So I'm so lucky that he said, no, you cannot do that young lady.

What on earth? You know, he was like, you must go to college. So I went to Rutgers because they had a BFA acting program. Amazing. Yeah, and I could be close to the city and go in to see plays. And, you know, I just wanted to be as close as I could to the Broadway of it all. Right. You know, and I was, which was great, which was great.

It was perfect because I did need that time to, during that time, when I realized that I needed to get a hold of my, my abuse of alcohol, predominantly alcohol. I mean, other things around me. I had no idea that you were sober. Yeah, I've been sober so long that I don't talk about it all the time. But yeah, thank God. Thank God. Good for you.

Yeah, thank you. We have that in common. Yeah, I know. I love that. And I don't know how I would have navigated. First of all, New York in the late 80s was just insanity. I mean, I remember I was kind of alone in being sober. I wasn't really in a program at that time.

and I didn't know anyone who was sober except I had a boyfriend who was sober. Oh, great. Yeah, so we could be together in it. But I remember just walking. I had to walk. I had a waitressing job and I would walk home and I would walk by the limelight,

like all the crazy clubs and just be like, oh, thank God, I'm not in there. I don't know. What would happen to me? So you never felt triggered once you moved out. You felt like you were strong in your sobriety when you moved and were in that environment.

You know, I did feel triggered for sure, but I did never fall. Oh, great. Yeah. I think large, because of John, my boyfriend, who was super sweet. He was in some ways, like the police, you know. He'd been to work for a while.

And he was very protective. And I think he knew the dangers more than I did in a way, you know, of like he'd been out. He was three or four years older than me at the time. He'd already been out and, you know, lived a life in the city and knew how crazy it could be. So he was very protective. And that helped me get over the initial hump of. of like being out in the crazy world

and trying to be sober. But it was lonely in the way of like my roommate was wild. You don't know what I'm saying? Like there were all these wild people around me and I would just be like, no, I'm just going to stay out. Right. Keep your blinders on. You know where you have business being

and where you do not. 100%. I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. We have some breaking news to tell you about. Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor. In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped behind

locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos. I was terrified. Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever. At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families' futures. It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all. It doesn't matter how much I fight. Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers.

And what is this? How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you? From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players, comes crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists.

And me, Roy Scoval, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfish is a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch.

And it freaks you out. He has x-rayed vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow him. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us. Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths.

Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest-ranking law enforcement officers in Texas. 32 years, total law enforcement experience. But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy. He was the head of this gang, and nobody was going to tell him what to do. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us. the game, as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind

and uncover secrets he never saw coming. My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about. Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot. The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I just fell and started screaming.

If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way. I said through you got 22 times. The police, right? But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help is the one you're the most afraid of? This dude is the devil. He's a snake. He'll hurt you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I'm Nikki Richardson, and this is The Girlfriends, Untouchable. Detective Roger Golubski spent decades intimidating and sexually abusing black women across Kansas City, using his police badge to scare them into silence. This is the story of a detective who seemed above the law until we came together to take him down.

I told Roger Galooski, I said, you're going to see my face to the day that you die. Listen to the girlfriends, Untouchable, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And then I moved here in the 90s, also insane. Oh, I can't even imagine. Yeah, everywhere. Cocaine everywhere. everywhere oh no part of my language i don't with that right no no it's serious it is serious it's really not good so i remember being at parties and seeing like dinner plates of with a mountain

i would just be like lovely lovely i know the 90s here was who who was a lot it was a lot and i do remember there were people in my life who not not my like i have a publicist i've had for over 30 years i've a manager i've had for 30 years i mean i've had like a really great team but there were other people that I meet along the way and they'd be like, you've got to go out to parties. And I was like, whoever got a job from going to parties, that's crazy. No one gets a job. And when you're sober, you realize you're all in one big room talking about bullshit. Totally.

It's actually quite insane. Exactly. Like there have been moments in my seven years and some change where I've gone out to nightclubs and I'm watching people. And I'm like, do we all realize that we're in like a concrete room just with music that's way too loud? Horrible. I know.

Horrible. No one realizes that. No, I know. Well, because I think you're really, you just think that you have to do it or you think you're supposed to do it or you think that that's how something meaningful is going to happen in your life.

I don't know why. Nothing ever good comes of any of that. No, I agree. I agree. I agree. I worry for the young women who do that or feel like they need to do that, I guess, I should say. Well, I think it's our job. You know, we're in different lines of work.

And, you know, when I first came out here, I wanted to be an actress. And you couldn't, you, if you signed up to do reality TV, it was like a death wish for your career. And now it has changed. Right. So we're in, we're both in entertainment, but I feel like it's our job to,

to take these platforms and spread the word on how to go about this. What are the red flags? I agree. Let's not try to paint them green because we love to do that, especially at a young age. Right, right, right. And I feel like finally, getting older is like an empowering thing.

Absolutely. It's something that women are embracing. Yeah. It's like your superpower, right? Definitely. I don't feel like it was always looked at that way. No, of course. I think it was experienced that way,

but I don't think that we had a way to talk about it. I mean, I am newly older, relatively. I mean, it's also relative. Like when we started the show, we were in our 30s, right? Which is so funny now because, like, that's very young. And obviously, you look back at the show. We look like little children to meet, right? but at the time there was this whole freedom because as an actress once you were in your mid-30s

you were kind of done you were on your way out right so it was such an empowering thing to get these parts because first of all you didn't have to lie about your age anymore because depending on whatever audition you went to you had to lie and say you were that age right wow that's crazy and I remember just going oh thank god I never have to lie about my age again yay because we were like these strong powerful women in our 30s and we were supposed to be in our 30s that was the point right don't you find it interesting though because as I go out and about and see people in their around my age, it's actually we're still trying to figure it out in our 30s.

I know. Whereas your guys' personal lives may have been all over the place, but like wonderful careers were happening on the show. You know, Carrie with her column, Miranda being this like incredible lawyer. Yeah. I don't feel like it's as much that way anymore. and maybe it's just living in Los Angeles.

But at that age, we're still really trying to figure out what we want to do and be and see. Yeah, I think a lot of that is because the world has changed too. I think COVID really like, you know what threw everybody off. Right? Like there was no, because when we were all in like college age, right, I went to college, I don't think Kim went to college, I don't think Sarah went to college, Cynthia went to college.

And I think that you were kind of told that there was a tract that you could be on, right? but we all wanted to be actors. So I went to acting school. Does acting school help you? No. No. Not in any way.

It's true. And I did. And I'm glad it helped me develop as a human being. Right. But it doesn't help you in your career at all. At all. At all. I need to really reiterate that.

I think it's great. Like if you love theater and you love acting and you want to enjoy yourself in college, also just get a BA and make sure you get a, like a more well-rounded education, right? Which I didn't really care about. I didn't do that. I didn't care. And I'm not saying I regret it.

I'm happy with my choice. But I just think that you, you in some young way, you believe that it's going to matter that you have this degree. Nobody cares if you have a degree. Isn't that? Because so many people,

so many of my friends, I always had this mindset. I remember my counselor calling me in and being like, we need you to take, what is it, an SAT? Yes. When are you going to be doing that?

Oh, it's very intense. to school and I was like, I'm moving to L.A. and I'm going to be famous. And they were like a very small percentage of people make that happen. Yay, yay, la la. And I was like, well, it looks like I'll be part of it. And like I never took it. But all of my friends went off and did college and most of them

are in debt. They don't use their degree for anything. So if there's one thing, I knew what I wanted to do and that's great. Nothing was going to stop that. Amazing. Okay, let's talk about this episode. So this episode in my mind so my favorite season is season three okay the season that we're in yeah and part of the reason I think that my favorite season is when I watch these episodes all the storylines are just great

and they're all intertwined in ways that are interesting and more in depth in a way than in the beginning like I think it took us some time to find um our legs in terms of like the writing and how to how to get everything in, but also everyone's storyline is great and different, right? And it took, it took a lot of work on our writer's part to get to that. And also so much happens in such a short amount of time. I know. It's amazing. It's amazing. Every time I watch it, I'm like, wow, wow, we were so good. I mean, I thought it was good at the time and I loved it, right? But like, in retrospect, I'm much more able to see the, how hard the actual mechanics were. Totally. You know, and have full, full appreciation for it.

Yeah. I mean, the show stands the test of time, which is, I think, very hard to do. 100% because there's so many shows out there, right? And you're basically competing with all of them over the test of time, right? And it's the hugest compliment in the world that people still love it and still come up to me and still are discovering it. Which is like, I mean, who would have ever thought? We never, never would have dreamt any of this. That's got to feel really amazing.

It does. It does. I mean, obviously there's so much luck that plays into it, but also there's so much hard work in terms of getting to the point and getting the job, but then also doing the job, because it was, like, my entire life.

Yes. Like, there's no, like, once it really succeeds, which is third season, third season is when we shockingly got nominated for an Emmy for the first time, and we never thought that would happen. And then once the award thing started, that was in our off season, right? So we'd go to work in February,

and then Golden Globes would be in March, January. So it was just like year around. You know what I'm saying? Like you had little breaks, but not really. And then you were doing press to try to, you know, it was, it was a lot. It was a lot. It sounds like so much fun. It was fun. It was work, but it was fun for sure. But also like there are things I think back in terms of my personal life. And I'm like, oh my God, how did anyone put up with me? Like I don't think I talked about anything else. Really? How could you? When that's your life? Right. When that's your life, how do you, that's a, that's what you go and do when you meet people. You talk about what your world is like. And when that is your

every single day and anyone you're communicating outside of that person are also a part of your business and show. That's mostly who you're talking to. Right. So the timing at that point in time was probably just off. You weren't, I don't know when you met your person or father of your person. But adopted. Oh, you adopted your babies? Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, see, you did it the right way from the jump. You did it the right way from the jump. That's so sweet. Thank you. Damn, I'm so jealous.

I'm sorry. I mean, look, it happens the way it happens, right? It happens to be it happens. I'm investigative journalist Melissa Joltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse. And the patients who banded together. in the chaos that followed. We have some breaking news to tell you about.

Tennessee's Attorney General is suing a Nashville doctor. In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos. I was terrified. Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever. At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families' futures. It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all.

It doesn't matter how much I fight. Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? how was that not a story we all know what it what's this you where is that why is it wet

boy do we have a show for you from smartless media campside media and big money players comes crimeless join me josh dean investigative journalists and me rory scoville comedian as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals we'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws honestly it feels more like a high level prank than a crime. Who catfish is a city? And meet some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys.

Clap if you think, she's a witch. And it freaks you out. He has x-rayed vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow him. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Dad had a strong belief that the devil was attacking. us. Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths. Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest ranking law enforcement officers in Texas. 32 years, total law enforcement experience. But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy. He was the head of this gang and nobody was going to tell him what to do. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming.

My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about. Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot. The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I just fell and started screaming. If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way. I said through you shot 22 times. The police, right? But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help is the one you're the most afraid of?

This dude is the devil. He's a snake. He'll hurt you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I'm Nikki Richardson. And this is The Girlfriends Untouchable. Detective Roger Golubski spent decades intimidating and sexually abusing black women across Kansas City, using his police badge to scare them into silence. This is the story of a detective who seemed above the law until we came together to take him down.

I told Roger Galoopsky, I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die. Listen to the Girlfriends Untouchable on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Okay, so this, the whole theme of this episode is exactly kind of what you're talking about, which is about following your heart or your mind, which is such a huge question. Every day, forever, I think. You know what I mean? Yes. And, oh my gosh, when Carrie ends up in bed with Big. Yeah. And you have like the perfect guy right in front of you, but the heart just wants what it wants.

I know. And at some point you always give in and it's like the forbidden fruit. I have been in relationships where I'm like, if I'm so happy with this person, but if you were to drop this specific person in front of me, I would forget all about this, even though this is so right for me because my heart just knows, and my vagina, knows what it wants.

I mean, it's an interesting thing. Like, I don't know, because I have never been married, right? I've never been really, I've been really committed to people. But if I'm really in love, you could drop anybody in front of me. It doesn't matter. Do you what I'm saying? Yeah. And so my question, when I watch this, and I, again, you, you see it at different times

and think about it, you know, you think different things when you're rewatching it, right? Like the first time I rewatched this episode, I thought, oh, my God, she's so stupid. Carrie, so stupid, right? Yeah. But then this time I watched it, and I was like, you can tell that the Aiden relationship is not right for her. No, it's certainly not right for her. So that, to me, that's a symptom of that, that. than big.

Big is unfinished, right? Like, we all know what that's like. Now, I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's right. And I don't think it's right or good for her. But I understand why she does it because it's undone. You know, it's not complete. Right.

And we all know, obviously, what happens. Right. But at this point in time, what I am thinking is we can say it doesn't feel complete. And I think there's a very small percentage. chance that you end up, like, being with the person who's so toxic? No, of course, right. But it's like, you become addicted to the super high highs and then the super low lows. Right, and that's horrible for you.

It's so... For everyone. Awful. I like to think about it as hitting a vape. It is. It is. It's full addiction. No, you're right.

You're right. That's a good way to put it. That's a good way to put it. And I think this time when I rewatched it, number one, I'm looking at Aden and I'm like, why doesn't he understand that she like this is you know like it's nice what he wants to do but also he's kind of oblivious to her right like he says i want to redo your floors you're not going to know i'm here and then she's like he's sanding your floors he's got plastic up i mean you know i work from home exactly so like he's somewhat not connected to her you know what i'm saying

he's not really getting her in a way right which is i think true the whole time that he doesn't really get her and that's what's interesting about him is he's different and different than obviously, but also different than Carrie, right? And that's interesting. Yeah. But does that really, does he, are they super connected or do they just have great chemistry? Like, not that different from big, right? Like, I look at the chemistry factor.

I think Aiden came in at the right time. Yes. And it's all timing. I usually all am like pro-chick. But how could Aiden get to a place where he knows her when she does have such a wall up? She's not even acting like herself. She's a, she's a version of herself that, that I feel is, is almost like a shell of herself. I agree, I agree.

She's not, she's not giving her full self. Not at all. She's the big in the relationship. She's the withholding in a way, like she doesn't even tell him about big. She was like, Big says like, you know, she says, like, he doesn't know about you and I don't want it to. And Big says, why? That's like the, I mean, sometimes Big frustrates me obviously, but like sometimes I'm like, yeah, why I care. Why wouldn't you tell this new relationship

about your past relationship? It was pretty recent. So you're right. She's got a wall. Because then you open up the whole can and if she were to tell Aiden about Big it would be a venting session and her being confused

and right then he would know that is not finished. You're so right. You're so right. Yeah. That is so right. And on one hand she's smart that she feels that and doesn't do it.

But on the other hand, how could she actually expect it to work with Aden if she's got the wall, you know, right? She seems to always want to be in some sort of relationship to distract her from big. Yeah, it's true. And that part I do not relate to. No.

Because any time, and I haven't had a lot of moments where I'm like, I really, really like this person, I can think of maybe two in my life. Oh, no. Yeah. And like, and one of them is not even the father of my child, like, at all. Wow. But I can think of two. Mm-hmm.

And the moment that those don't work out, I cannot even bring myself to go out and meet someone else because I just want to be by myself and I want to retreat and focus on myself. And what is, why am I attracting this type of person? Yes. Yes. Who wants to, like, give you all of this love and be present. And then all of the sudden they're like gone off the face of the earth. You better be dead in a ditch because that's the only way I'm going to be cool with you disappearing.

Yikes. Disappearing is horrible. Shame on whoever you guys are. Shame on them. Bad. Disappearing is horrible. It's the worst. Horrible.

Like after a few text messages, disappear. But you can't go out with me, meet my friends, you know, be intimate and sleep together. And then everything be normal. And then literally overnight, go MIA. So with Carrie, though, I find that she... You mean she's like that. You're saying she's like that. I find that when something goes south with someone,

she's ready to go out. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The easiest way to get over someone is to get under someone else. Definitely, definitely, which we, I think we actually have a whole episode about. But also, Carrie is not... Carrie is interesting in that she's got her column where she's really thinking about, you know, relationships and people in New York and what's going on, but she doesn't have a lot of personal introspection,

right her introspection is about like relationships in general and what about this question is kind of intellectual rather than why am I doing this you know like like when she's relisting to that voicemail and Miranda's over there that was so entertaining to me because it's like they're in high school it made me want a lot of licorice by the way I was like that looks like they're ripping totally right it's a very high school moment but I think it's also very like we all that all relationships I do think do that to you potentially right like you're suddenly in grade school or whatever you know what i mean you are yeah and you have to have a third party come in which is what i love when miranda's like we could listen to this

and we will never know what it means i know i know it's so true we have all been a carry in that moment and we've all been the miranda in that moment it's true but it's important to have that miranda voice i have the miranda voice in my head right who can be like why are you even trying to analyze this you will never know you'll never understand this younger man they make no sense. You know what I'm saying? No one makes any sense. No one makes any sense.

No, no. But that's what I love about Carrie is that she is trying to figure everyone else out, but not always herself. But she also tries, but then like her feelings, I think, are too strong, which is kind of interesting because she also has, you know, kind of the facade of like, I'm cool. You know what I mean? She has like a, you know, but she's not.

She's got a lot of swag that she puts on. Yes. You know, I have this. friend, which you should, and I'm blinking on her last, I always say I have this friend, and then I'm like, what the hell is her last name? You don't have to say her name. She thinks Carrie, I have this

friend who is obsessed with sex in the city, and she has always said that even before I watched, that Carrie's a narcissist. A lot of people say this, and we discuss this because Sir Jessica does not like this, and we discuss this sometimes in life. And there was a time

of COVID where this became, a big thing on Instagram and TikTok and whatever. And there's some very funny videos about it, I have to say. But I personally do not think this is true for a couple of reasons. They say that she's a bad friend. And I don't find that to be true at all. I don't find that to be true at all either. No. But I also think that the way that the show is structured, and people don't necessarily realize this and why should they, right? They're just

watching the show and enjoying the show. But the way the show is structured, she's our entree into the world, right? She's our leading character we're hearing her thoughts and her voice we her voiceover you know we're seeing her writing right so of course we're hearing her thoughts if we were in your head hearing your thoughts we would also think you're a narcissist yeah if we were in hannah's head the hearing her thoughts or easton's head because you're in your own head right why would your thoughts not be about you and the people around you it it's it's just the basic conceit of the show right that we are in carrie's head that's my answer to it because to me, she's a great friend.

I mean, look, she's, she's, you know, I mean, I don't, I don't, who's a perfect friend, nobody, right? But like, she's there for these friends. I don't think you could categorize any of you as bad friends. That's the beauty of the show is a group of women navigating their lives and always coming back to each other. Yes. And maybe I need to watch it again, but I do not think that Carrie is a narcissist. No, me neither. And I've dealt with many of those.

100%. I mean, mostly I've dealt with male narcissists, right? Which looks different, do you know what I'm saying, than female narcissists? But also, I have known female narcissists, and Carrie is not one at all, at all, at all. I mean, I think there's a time early on, I can't remember, I think it's first season, where she stands Miranda up for big. That's not good, obviously. but Miranda gets really mad and they like have a fight do you what I mean I don't think

Miranda would have been as mad if Big wasn't a piece of shit well of course of course that's why she was mad no of course but also we're sitting somewhere yes you know if you're saying this is before everyone had the cell phones like Carrie's still running to the phone booth yeah that's what I mean right right so you're sitting somewhere by yourself of course and Miranda's mad I totally get it and Big's a jerk I totally get both sides right but who hasn't fucked up everybody so exactly you know what I mean And also, I mean, you know, they're, I was going to say they're kind of young at the time. But whatever. You know, like when you watch the beginning of the show, we do seem really young. But I also think some of that is the world. Like, you know, we didn't have dating apps. We didn't have, you know, cell phones and texting everybody all the time. You know what I'm saying? It was like a different world. Right. It would have been a different game saying I'm going with big to get his big. Right. You know, and she's like, all right. At least I know I can call another friend. Exactly. Or I can go home or whatever. I can go home. I can have a drink by myself and maybe find me a cute. Find me a cute.

You guys, this is so much fun that we are going to have to have a part two. So join us later in the week on R.U.S. Charlotte. I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltsin. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. It doesn't matter how much I fight. It doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get.

None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. It's Michelle Williams, host of checking in on the Black Effect Podcast Network. You know, we always say New Year, New Me, but real change starts on the inside. It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your goals. And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered. New Year, Real You.

Listen to checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? Who catfishes a city? Is it even safe to snort human remains? Is that the plot of Footloose? I'm comedian Rory Scoville, and I'm here to tell you, Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity

of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother Larry, a mystery gay, didn't want to solve until it was too late.

He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause? Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry's killed, game must untangle a dangerous past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

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