Are You A Charlotte? - Does Anybody Know How to Drive? with Jenna Bush Hager... (S1 E10 "The Baby Shower")

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

"TODAY" is the day Jenna Bush Hager joins Kristin for the iconic Baby Shower episode. In a twist, Jenna reveals her water broke at her own baby shower. But first, lets discuss the pressure on these women to have children that still exists today! Plus, a comparison of Sex and the City and The Golden Girls you don't want to miss! Follow Are You A Charlotte? on Instagram  and TikTok See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? We are here to recap episode 110, that's season one, episode 10, called The Baby Shower. I remember it. It's a good one, and you're the perfect, perfect guest. I have the incredible Jenna Bush Hager. She, as you all probably know, hosts a whole hour of The Today Show now called The Today Show Today with Jenna and Friends. Which I was just on.

I know, I loved having you. Amazing, and it's always great to see you and I get to see you twice today, which is super exciting. I do think you are the perfect person to talk about this episode, The Baby Shower, because this is a really interesting and kind of different episode. I mean, the first shower, because this is a really interesting and kind of different episode. I mean, the first season, I don't know when you last have seen the beginning.

This is what's so crazy about Sex and the City is that they were like, OK, they're going to talk about this episode. And I was like, oh, is that the one where shoes get stolen? Like, I've watched it a million times over the years. But it's crazy how much we can remember. I'm like, I think it was in the suburbs, but it's crazy how much we can remember. I'm like, I think it was in the suburbs and they were like, I don't know. And then they were like, yes, you're right. It's in the suburbs.

I know that is part of the reason I wanted to do the podcast is that our writers were just so incredible and wrote so brilliantly about relationship things, about cultural elements of aging. And like one of the things we really look at in this episode is the pressure on women. Do you want to become a mother? Do you not want to become a mother?

That's a pretty big, you know, issue and question for women in their 20s and 30s. And obviously our characters are mostly in their 30s, and Samantha's a little bit older, and obviously has a very strong point of view. And it's very interesting to look at, and you would think that in the 27 or 28 years since this episode aired things would have changed, but I don't really think they have. I do have one really good friend who is comfortable saying she doesn't want kids.

Does she live here in Manhattan? No, she lives in Texas. Wow, good for her. She lives in Texas. Wow, good for her! She lives in Texas. I'm impressed. And I think it was a lot to get there because there were pressures, you know. So much pressure.

From society, but also from where she lives and from a lot of different places. And I was like, I don't, I feel like you just don't want to have kids and that's okay. It is. Yeah, but one, you know? And I think the conversation is slightly changing, but you're right, we haven't come far enough. No, we really haven't. And the thing is, as someone, I'm a single mother,

and there's a lot of pressure to be in a couple, right? But I think there's even more pressure to be a mother. Like, people look at you sideways if you get to a certain age and you're not a mother. It's really interesting. What I like about this episode, I like so many things about it. And I don't know if I told you earlier,

like I had not seen any of these shows since- I know. Yeah, since 1998. So you've just started rewatching for the podcast? Yeah, and a lot of it I don't remember. Some of it I do, like I have a pretty clear memory of this because we had to get in vans and drive out to- Yeah, and a lot of it I don't remember. Some of it I do. Like, I have a pretty clear memory of this because we had to get in vans and drive out to, I think Connecticut.

I think we're in Connecticut. I would have to check with someone, but it was a ways. And it's either Connecticut or Long Island somewhere. And we were out there at that house. I mean, it felt like for weeks. We didn't have that big of a budget to film for weeks, but we were out there for quite some time with all those ladies and children.

It was very different, very, very different. So it was quite a departure. And when I look back on it from a writing perspective and just executive producing of the show perspective, they were so bold to do it. We weren't in the city. Mr. Big isn't even in the episode. There's really no men, right?

Yeah, I mean, there's some men when we come back, but that's also kind of funny. Like it's more a reaction to having been in this like hotbed of motherness, right? Like, you know, people act a little crazy when we get back to the city, but I love that they already had the kind of like, you know, sense like, you know,

sense of, you know, we can do this and we can do that. Cause when you think about how the show develops, there would be really serious episodes, even though we're technically a comedy, and there would be, you know, kind of, we go to LA, we do this, we do that. I mean, I love that that was kind of, there was a lot more happening in first season

than I really realized. Remembered, yeah. I didn't remember it. And also at the time, my sense of it was that we were all over the place and that we didn't really know what we were doing. Yes. But I think that's really came to be our strength. Yes.

That we were kind of open to different things and bolder and HBO was allowing us, you know, to try different stuff out. Yes. Which was super cool. Yes. I mean, I look back on it now and it's so much better than I thought it was. I mean, don't you love that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank God.

Wouldn't it be terrible if I looked back at it, was it? But also, it does feel relevant even now, like the, you know, I was gonna say the younger, but the next generation that is watching it can see themselves in these women too. Absolutely, two girls at the airport yesterday said to me, oh, you know, I watched this show when I was in my 20s, and now I'm in my 30s.

I understand it so much better now. I relate to it so much more, and it's so much more interesting. And I was like, that's cool. That's good. I mean, you could watch it at different times and have different ideas about what the character's going through. And also just in terms of identifying yourself

as a character, you can start out thinking like, I'm a Miranda, like Olivia Mum was saying to us today. And then later on you're like, oh no, maybe I'm a Charlotte. I was a Charlotte. Exactly, yeah. I mean, it's fun. That part of it, I think is fun.

And also I love to see what has changed and what hasn't. One thing that has changed, and I'm sure you're gonna have some thoughts on this, is New York. Like when I look at the old show, I thing that has changed, and I'm sure you're going to have some thoughts on this, is New York. Like, when I look at the old show, I love that New York! So different! I lived in New York, like, for, I was in school in Texas,

but I lived in New York for the summer. Oh, fun. I know, I was taking classes, like, Shakespeare classes at NYU. And it was so fun. Was it so magical? It was magical. I also worked at a PR firm, which was like the best thing, because I was like, oh, I hate PR.

PR is a thankless job. I'm like, this is actually not something I want to do. And I thought that I was into it. Right, right, right. Because you don't even know what PR is. You have no idea what they have to deal with. Exactly. But that New York was so fun.

Yeah, what year was that? That was like 2000, no, yeah, 2001. Wow. I mean, is that too late? No, that was a glorious summer. That summer was like such the epitome. What year did you, 27 years ago, what year did you guys start shooting? We filmed our pilot in 97.

Okay. Which is insane to think about. Yes. And then we didn't get picked up for a while. And so then when we did get picked up, we got picked up in 2008. Oh, you weren't picked up until 2008? Yeah, they took over a year to pick us up. Can you believe that? Yeah. What were they thinking?

There were some behind the scenes brouhaha that is kind of boring, I think, and I don't totally know for a fact, so I shouldn't even say it. But HBO at the time was known for having boxing and movies. And they had- I remember that, which is hilarious. You do? You do.

And they had a show called Dream On, where every week a different girl would be nude. Yeah, it was interesting. That I don't remember. You probably weren't watching it. I remember it as an actress because I was in LA auditioning for things and I was always like, oh my God, I can't audition for that.

But it didn't have female driven things on HBO. And also in general, there were not shows where there were four leading women who were interesting in different characters. I know, was this the first? I mean, I don't think it was the first because there's the Golden Girls, which people love to compare us to.

Yes. And obviously an incredible show in its own right, in its own way. Because they were different, obviously, multicam, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I don't know how those characters were meant to be. They were meant to be in their 50s. Oh, that's so painful.

Isn't that crazy? Isn't that so crazy? We've like talked about that before, Hoda and I, and we were like, what? That has changed. Don't you feel like aging has changed? Thank God. Yeah.

No offense to anyone. No, we love those Golden Girls. Of course. They're living in a retirement community. I'm sorry. Believe me, I know. It's crazy. I can't even believe that. I know. I thought they were 80. No, I know. Me too. Well. I know. Okay, I'm going to recover. I know, recover, recover, recover. Wow. I know. Oh my God. Well, I mean, you know, sometimes it's really good

to remember these things because these are societal, like pop culture things, elements, right? That are just part of the big picture of what society is kind of telling us to expect from our lives. Yeah. And it's not true. Yeah, exactly. So I think that's so important.

And it makes me so happy. I remember, and this is funny to say now, everyone looks at me sideways when I say this, but for me, I've been auditioning, I've been on Melrose Place and that was my big job. But then after that, before that, after that, I was auditioning. Olivia and I have been talking all week

about how obsessed. What? We're the same age and it's so fun when you have somebody that has the same point of reference of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we were like of that generation who would watch 90210 and then Melrose Place right after.

And my child just streams television. She's like watched all of Grey's Anatomy and I'm like, do you understand that we would wait for Thursday nights? No, they don't understand. I know they don't. What I was gonna say about aging is that when we got the show, for me, it was this huge relief that the characters were in their 30s.

So I was like, oh, thank God I don't have to lie anymore. Because in Melrose Place, were you playing up? I can't remember. Did we even say how old Brooke was? I don't know. I have no idea. I mean, I feel like I was the same age as most of those people.

Yeah, I think we were supposed to be in our 20s and I feel like I was in my 20s. I remember when Melrose aired, we had a party. It was my birthday party and I was turning 30. And it was fun. I felt like I'm a success, I'm on television, I'm 30. It's going well. You know what I mean Yeah. I felt like I'm a success on television. I'm 30. I did it. It's going well. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So I was very happy. But I remember just, it was like kind of unheard of that four women who were over 30 would be starting a television show about women in their 30s in Manhattan. It was kind of like, what? And for us, we were like, yay,

we don't have to lie anymore. This is awesome. And now it's kind of that's something that I do think has changed. Yes, totally. Because people are working and working and working. Totally. And so many women, they were like, women over 50 taking over the Oscars.

100%. Right, as it should be. I mean, we had such a theme in our show sort of unintentionally when Hoda was on, because Hoda just turned 60. And all of these women would come as guests, including you. in our show sort of unintentionally when Hoda was on, because Hoda just turned 60. And all of these women would come as guests, including you. And the sort of common theme is it gets greater later.

Absolutely. And I feel like, thank goodness, other people are catching on. Thank God. You know, the culture and- Yes, and I mean, that's part of the reason that we're doing it just like that is because there is this, sometimes Hollywood is slow in this way of not green lighting or not even,

I mean, honestly, I don't even know what was being pitched, right? Cause I'm not in every office all the time, but I know for us, you know, everyone thought, well, of course they did. And just like that, no, there was no, of course, like we had to go in there and pitch it. Michael Patrick had to have ideas or Jessica had to go with him. We had to really convince them like, this is important, we need to do it. These are the characters, of course.

But like, they were like, well, what's the story? And the story is that your life keeps going. And it's more interesting and different things happen and you have to deal with different things. And they're maybe hard or maybe not hard, like all the different things, right? But why shouldn't we be telling those stories? You know?

Exactly. Let's talk about the baby shower. Okay, let's go back. But I could talk to you about all these things. I know. I know. Keep going. This is what's fun about the baby shower. Okay, let's go back. But I could talk to you about all these things. I know. I know. Keep going. Okay, this is what's fun about the baby shower.

We begin with Carrie getting the invitation. It's very fancy, like a wedding invitation, which I think is interesting. And then we show everyone's reaction. And of course, Samantha, Miranda, not very into it. They don't even want to go. Now, apparently, this woman, Lainey, who is pregnant and having the baby shower in Connecticut used to be a party girl. And all of us know her and her claim to fame,

which is bizarre, is that she would strip at parties. So funny. I know, it's so funny. And also like, this is when I also kind of laugh at us in terms of, you know, we're just super casual about it. You know like oh, yes, and this is what she do She just stand up at parties and just take off her clothes and And then it does show a flashback Which I'm not in and I remember being so jealous that I couldn't be in this flashback because I think it's early 90s

Sir, Jessica's wearing a pink cowboy hat. A pink one. And Samantha's got some big, like, weirdly spiky hair. I mean, it's super funny. Charlotte, I guess, is just like off with some preppy girls. I don't know. But I really wish I'd been in that scene when they flash back to the pre-married lady. When she was there.

Yes, taking off the clothes. And I mean, Carrie does look horrified, you know? But I mean, Samantha, at a certain point too, which I think is interesting, they do say something about Samantha being insecure, which I don't really think that you would describe Samantha as insecure, but I think what it is, is that Lainey was kind of in her same, yeah, real house.

Competitive. She's like, wait, who is this girl taking her clothes off? Right, and is she doing more than I'm doing, and do I want to do that, do I not want to do that? Which I think is super interesting because we don't see Samantha like that very often. No. Right, so that's interesting.

Yeah. So an interesting through line for her. But, so this Laney friend, and I do think it's also interesting in the beginning of the show, there's all these kind of peripheral characters, but we seem to somehow know them all really well. Totally. Like everyone, you know, like even that we haven't gotten into it, but that Charlotte would tell

this Lainey person her secret baby name. Okay, when, how? At a party? Like, well, okay. I mean, but I mean, on the other hand, I love it that they just drop us in. Totally. They don't us in. Totally. They don't explain anything. Totally. It's super interesting. Totally. It was before we needed all the information.

Is that right? Do you think? Well, yeah, because now it's like, you talk about something, you're like, wait, Google that, and let's find out who it is. That's a good point. And we have all the back information about everything. This was in the time.

So true. Like, probably right when internet was, you know, before social media. Barely internet. No social media. We're not like Googling every last detail. So our attention span you could drop us in. That's true. And I think Michael Patrick has said that he felt that the exposition was not that interesting. And that when you did move to New York, you were just in life with these people. You weren't finding out where they were from and what all the things, you know what I mean?

You were just like at the place with them. Yeah, and we didn't have that much time to set that all up. So true. Yeah, it would've been boring. The episodes are 22 minutes. That's what I mean. Which is insane. Yeah, I know. And we get a lot done, which is really fun. It's true. The writing is so good. No, they're so good. I mean, that's really the secret to our whole success.

But I think that's a boring answer for people, so they gloss over it. But it is so good. No, they're so good. I mean, that's really the secret to our whole success. But I think that's a boring answer for people. So they gloss over it. But it is the truth. OK, so we so everyone has their different reaction. Miranda, Samantha don't even want to go, which is funny. Of course, Charlotte wants to go because we I guess we haven't fully said other than the there's an early episode where Carrie's dating the marrying guy, then she decides it's not for her. She was trying him on and maybe he would be good for me. I go out with

him until we go shopping at Bergdorf and I don't like his china pattern that he likes, which really makes me laugh. Okay. So we are seeing the beginnings of what is going to turn into Charlotte really getting didactic about getting married. But they're not totally, we didn't start with that. By the way, how interesting that you were so different than her, than the character you played. Oh yeah. Like opposite. I was opposite in many ways. I mean... As far as at least the...

The married part, the traditional part. Yeah. I know, I know. I know, I know. It's an interesting thing. So we have all these different reactions, then we get ready to go and we've rented a car, and the three of them are there wearing the most 90th sunglasses I've ever seen in my life. And Samantha brings a bottle of scotch, Miranda brings condoms, which is like so insane, and Carrie brings nothing. And this is one of my most favorite moments

that I definitely remember from the early, early season. I come running around the corner with a Bellini baby basket, and they made it as big as possible. And this was a real thing. Like I remember the Bellini baby basket. All the Bellini products, and it's like this big, and a baby's supposed to sleep in there, which is also weird and funny.

And I'm running and the things are like jiggling and funny. And then we all get in the car and no one sits in the driver's seat. And they say, I think Carrie says, can anyone drive? Or maybe Samantha, can anyone drive? Which is also pretty funny. So New York.

And so New York, and we have so many callbacks to that as time goes on in terms of we go to LA and there's a whole stress about who's gonna drive and then Carrie drives, but then it doesn't go that great. I mean, so many different funny things, but this is so early. So we go out there. I am immediately, Charlotte is immediately welcomed

into the Mom Club because I've got the Balini Bay Vaskets, my ticket, into the Mom Club. The others are like onini Bay Vasquez, my ticket into the mom club. The others are like on the side drinking and complaining basically the whole time. But then we find out also that Carrie, oh, I think in the voiceover, we found out that Carrie's period is late. Which is a really interesting tie in.

And I think so relevant to life in your, you know, 20s and 30s in a way. And also her relationship with Big is pretty new. So she doesn't even tell him, which I think makes perfect sense. And she doesn't tell him and she says, she's so smart. And I know people sometimes think she's not so smart, but I don't get that.

But she says, I'm going to ask him or I'm going to tell him and then she can't finish the sentence. And then she says, I realized I'm not going to talk to him about it until I can finish the sentence. So smart. Yeah, totally. Right? Like be able to think about what you want to say

before you actually say it. Yes. And she doesn't even go get a test or anything until later. But I think being at the baby shower and like at one point there are all these kids running around the yard and they shoot her with a BB gun thingy or whatever, a Nerf gun. So she's, you know, it's a lot of children.

She's like, oh, I better find out later. But I love that storyline and I love the way that they tie it in. And I love the fact that it's so early in the relationship with Big that, you know, she doesn't even know. And then there's a lot of conversations where she, mostly with Miranda, talks about, you know,

do I even want kids? Am I maternal? Like when they go to the drug store, she literally says, do you think I could be a good mother? And Miranda looks really nervous, like she's not sure. Which is interesting. And I think sometimes what's hard for me to be objective about is I know Sarah Jessica, who's super maternal. So I was always like, of course.

But maybe I just wasn't really able to... To disassociate the character from the actor. Exactly, exactly. Because I get it when I look back. Yes. You know, she's out and about. And she's career focused too. Yes, yes, yes.

Like we were saying. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I mean, it's super interesting. There's so many interesting things. I mean, there's so many interesting things that are said. Okay, wait, let's talk about. I mean, it's super interesting. There's so many interesting things. I mean, there's so many interesting things said. Okay, wait, let's talk about the baby name

because it's really funny. I mean, just recently, I guess on TikTok and or Instagram, there's been this whole sound about this man saying, My Shaila. Have you heard this? No, what is that? Okay, it's on my Instagram if anyone would like to see it. I don't know where it came from, but it is, you know, the baby name that is much discussed in this episode.

So I did it and people loved it. You know, when you do a, you act it out. Yes. I don't understand the man who's doing it, but he's really funny. And I don't know if it came from the show. I'm perplexed. Yeah. But sometimes little pieces of things come out

in ways that are just amazing. Yeah, totally. Totally. So when we're sitting there, oh, also I need to mention this. At one point, you know how at a baby shower, there was a tradition, I don't know if you did this, where you take all the bows from all the packages

and you put them on your head. Yes, yeah. Did you do this? No, my baby, my water broke at my baby shower. Oh no! Yeah. That's like a TV show. No, I know.

What did you do? I went to the hospital. Did everyone panic? Everybody panicked and they called my husband who was with some of the other guys. Having like a guy thing. Like having a beer on the, we were here in New York on the,

I mean we lived here on the rooftop somewhere nearby. It was like a guy thing. Like having a beer on the corn... We were here in New York on the... I mean, we lived here on the rooftop somewhere nearby. It was like April. Wow. So it was beautiful. And two... 12 years ago and like... Oh, two weeks. My daughter's about to have her birthday. Oh, that's nice.

And they called and they said... And everybody was laughing because it was shocking and there was only one man in the room and it was the caterer and he threw paper towels at us and then walked out of the door. He was just like, I cannot deal with this. Oh my God. And it was, what was even more comedic about it is we were in a circle. Uh huh.

I was opening presents. And my friend goes, oh my gosh, she's about to have that baby right here. My stomach made a weird movement. Oh my God. Which I guess is what happened. I have no idea. to have that baby right here. My stomach made a weird movement. Oh my God. Which I guess is what happened. I have no idea. I have no idea. OK.

And it only, this has only happened with my first child. And then my water broke in front of every single person sitting. And everybody's reaction was so different. Like somebody cried because they were pregnant. And they were like, just terrified. And they had so much feeling. They had so much feeling. Other people were dying laughing.

So when they called, and they said, well, it was kind of funny. OK. Because also, I was like, what is happening? But they called my husband. And Barbara, my sister and I have a twin sister. We played so many pranks on him over the years. Oh, no. But he did not believe.

Like, he thought this was a funny thing girls were doing. And also he'd been to the doctor like with me the day before, where they were like, you have six more weeks. So he just was the thought. And then there was a producer that works on our show, still now works on our show, who I've known all these years, 12 years later, who is so lovely and earnest and kind.

And her husband was with her, Henry, my husband, and she called him. She's like, Dane, this is real. And he was like, listen, her husband was like, I know Barbara and Jenna can lie, but Carrie cannot. So you need to go to the hospital. Wow. Anyway, so I don't think we put the bow on her head.

You didn't get to that. I fully understand. I fully understand. I fully understand. I'm not sure people still do that. I feel like it was more, no. I kind of remember like. It was a thing, but I just don't know if it still happens. Probably not.

So for some reason, Charlotte also manages to get a bow on her head, which I really think I probably had something to do with. Because it is one of my favorite pictures. It's very funny. I mean, I also think, because had something to do with. Because it is one of my favorite pictures. It's very funny. I mean, I also think, because Charlotte just really would like to be part of this club. You know what I'm saying?

So then Lainey has a huge amount of bows on her head, at which point one of her friends says, oh, little Shayla is gonna love blah, blah, blah, whatever gift it was. And I'm like, hmm, what? And like, you know, kind of a big reaction for young Charlotte. And I stand up, like, that is my secret baby name that I told you.

She's like, well, I'm just really sorry. I don't remember. And this is such an unfair thing that I'm about to say, but like, I back then would have a lot of trouble separating the actor from the part, right? So like later on when Big has Natasha, like I've said this to Bridget, I'm like, I'm really sorry.

I just really couldn't look at you. Yeah, I just couldn't, I just couldn't be on your side. I know, it's terrible. It's terrible, but luckily I can tell her that. But also with Dana Willard Nicholson who played this part of Lainey, I was just like, that was very mad. So I jump up and I say, that's my secret baby name. And I did tell you. And she's like, I just don't remember.

And then Samantha comes in so ready to protect me. It's so cute. Yeah, I love that. And she's like, you bitch. And we stomp off, which is adorable. And we go to a bar, which is so perfect and really funny. And I don't really remember, like we're at some Irish bar, like wherever.

Yeah, wherever you were. Wherever we were, Connecticut, Long Island. I don't know where we were. And we drink. And I go to the bathroom when I'm gone. And this is kind of heartbreaking in a way. Carrie doesn't want to tell me that she's late with her period. So they talk about it while I'm gone.

It's kind of sad. And then I come back. Because she doesn't want to make you feel bad though, right? Because she knows. I think so. And also, I think they don't know what I might say. Yeah. You know, that I'd say something like, you have to have it in my naive kind of a way or whatever.

Yeah. Which I can totally see. Yeah. Even though as time goes on, I say every woman can make her own choice. Totally. I choose my choice, which is about many things, obviously. But at that point, I think, because the three of them are very much like, well, two of them are like, we don't want that.

Carrie's like, I'm not sure what I want. And I'm like, I want to have babies and get married, which is interesting. And I know it's different, but I do feel like there are groups of friends where people want different things. 100%. Right? You have to always be with the people who want the same thing. No, you don't want that to be boring. Right? Like you don't have to always be with the people who want the same thing. No, you don't want that to be boring.

Right? Right! And they're super interesting and fascinating. And also Charlotte is into her job at the gallery. It's not like she only... No, one note. Yeah. Right? No, exactly. Thank you, Jenna. Exactly.

Different people are... and back in the day too, people would be like, why is Charlotte friends with them? And I'd be like, why not? Come on! Exactly. I mean, but you had other friends. Don't you like how I say you? Charlotte did- Welcome to my world. I mean, sometimes I just can't even say the right name. I know, I know.

But you, I mean, Charlotte did have other, like, kind of, right? But not really. Her besties were there, but like, right? One time later on, we do see these girls that she went to Smith with. She goes to a brunch with them and she realizes, to her horror, that she is now the Samantha of that group.

It's a fascinating scene, yes. And I drink too much and then I throw money at them. I don't know why exactly. We'll have to look back at that. Or yeah, I guess, I don't really know. They make me mad for some reason. Yeah. I don't know. We're going to find out when we get there.

I know it is wild. I mean, Charlotte has had quite a development. You know, which is a good thing, obviously, as an actor and, you know, Yeah, she evolves just like humans do. Absolutely, as have the others, right? And I do think it's, oh, one of my favorite things when they get, so they go back to the city, they're kind of having like a reaction to being in this mommy club thing.

They go back to the city and Samantha has a, I don't have a baby party, which is so hysterical. And also reminds me, do you remember when Carrie, later on, and I think this is when her shoes might get stolen, I'm not sure. She has a, no, no, this one, she has to take her shoes off. Anyway, she has a party no, no, this is when she has to take her shoes off. Anyway, she has a party for her own engagement or whatever, like I'm engaged to me.

Yes. So that she can get gifts. Oh yes, exactly. Oh, she's like a register or something. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. It's hysterical. Like I love that we took on all these kind of, you know, like traditions.

Yes. And that were, are not really fair to everybody. To women. Yeah. Yeah. I like to put you under pressure and, you know, expectations and whatnot. And some somehow also hold you up like, this is your choice or whatever.

I think Samantha even says at one point, like she's trying to say that she's worthy by having a baby. Like she's, you know, which is really interesting and I think does happen. Don't you? Yes, totally.

Which is sad. I know. Like that's not why you have a baby. No. No. But people do, I think, or just feel like it's part of the pressures of being a woman.

And it 100% is part of the pressures of being a woman. And that's why- But it's not our worth.... But it's not our worth. No, it's not our worth. And I mean, then, and this is coming up too in a big way, because what Carrie's dealing with would be, who am I? You know, if I were to be pregnant and have Big's baby, whether we were together or not, like will I give up who I really am?

Has Lainey given up who she is? Because then we get back to the city and Lainey calls Carrie, and she's like, we should get together. And Carrie's like, oh, I'm sorry, I've got to go. I'm going to Samantha's party. She's like, Samantha's having a party? And then she shows up there with her pregnant self, and she wants to strip off her clothes.

That's hilarious. And it's just so uncomfortable. And everyone at the party just looks mortified. Yeah, you're like, Laney. And that also, think about that, what that says about women too, is that as soon as they become pregnant, there's somebody else. Right, and they're not sexual and they're not fun. And like you're just a different person, which is so unfair.

But also it is a huge life change. Yes, it is. For sure. For sure. It is. For sure. Yeah. But she tries to get up on this, like, it's like a coffee table, I guess, or like a stuffed thing, but it's big and she's so pregnant. And I remember us being really nervous, even though she wasn't

pregnant. We were really nervous, truly mean. And all of us are horrified as well, but literally every person in the party is horrified. And luckily she can't do it and she gets down. Thank God. Thank God. But it gets Carrie all in her head about, what if I was pregnant? A, what would I do?

B, am I maternal? C, who would I be? Because I've just been career, career, career. And then at a certain point, she goes to, I believe they're in Central Park and the trees are blooming, it's just so glorious. And she's at like one of the little side playground parks and she's watching all the little kids

and they're adorable. And of course they pick this kid who has hair like Sarah Jessica's color, comes over and like, you know, plays around her feet and the mom's like, sorry, and she's like, no, she's adorable. And it's the cutest scene and Sarah Jessica's like, sorry, and she's like, no, she's adorable. And it's the cutest scene, and Sir Jessica's so, so good in it. And it's what I love about it.

And again, I just don't remember this happening in television shows. I think it was more of kind of a film thing that you could have moments where the lead character is just in silence. And that you, I think she's got some voiceover, but she's also just sitting watching. And that wasn't something that you used to really see.

On television. Yeah. And it made us feel, number one, like you could really get inside Carrie's mind. And the voiceover, of course, helped. But also, like, that you could really, it had some space to think about the ideas. Which I think were so central to the writing and to the whole development of the show. These ideas, and it let the viewer think,

yeah, what do I think? Would Carrie be a good mother? Would I be a good mother? Do I want to be? You know, it let you also have the experience. Like the space to think. And I remember that being something that Sarah Jessica also kind of pushed and stood up for ongoingly. You know, like we need to remember that she's got to have time to be processing, because it would always start with the question, like, I wonder blah, blah, blah, you know, made me think about blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. But then like she's trying to work through it too. Yes. She's not just theoretically thinking about it. She's like, where do I fit in? It's a whole episode. It's like the thesis of what she's going through. Yep.

And eventually those theses became what we were all going through. Yes, exactly. That hasn't quite come into play yet. Exactly. And I do feel like she looks at the camera once or twice in this episode. What did you think about that? People have very mixed feelings. About her breaking the third wall, basically.

I mean, I can't, what, and did she, that did not bother me, but did it stop? I remember it at the beginning. Did it stop halfway through? It does stop, but it's weird it comes back all of a sudden. Oh, does it? And you're like, oh my God! It's happening again! I mean, I remember when she would do it, I remember.

Yeah. But then I feel like it became less frequent. Yes, for sure. And then we also had, you know, the people on the street who would talk, which also became less frequent. Oh, I totally... That kind of... Highly entertaining.

And at the first season, I remember that it kind of gave you slight... It was kind of like Law and Order vibes for some reason. Do you know what I mean? Like at the very beginning of Law and Order where there's the person that's like, and you're like, are they going to be part of this anymore? And it was just like, because that was always like the person on the street was not even an integral part of the show. Do you mean the person who gets killed?

Yes. I do. In the prologue. Oh my God, that is so true. In the very prologue where it's not even what the show is about. That is so true. I do know what you mean. And then when you'd have the person on the street look at the camera and say something,

it would never have been somebody. No, yeah, no, no. It wouldn't have been like a Laney. Right? No, it's not. It's like an extra. No, yeah. No, it's someone else.

It's actors who were hired. And as I think Jenny Bix, who was our first female writer who joined, told me it was so much work production-wise, because the casting people would have to cast them, hair and makeup, all wardrobe, and then we would have to set up different shots, like it would be a whole day of that. Oh gosh. Which we didn't really have time for, you know?

So from that perspective, it was hard. I think that there, I've met a lot of people who enjoy it, which really surprised me. I thought, I mean, it was campy sort of, which really surprised me. Because for us, we just wanted to get rid of it. It was campy, sort of, right? It was a little campy, yes. I mean, sometimes also, I think it was a little campy because they would give those people the most extreme things.

Well, totally. You know? Where like, the moms at the bridal baby shower do it. Where they're like, I tell my son every day that he's the best. I mean, that actually might be part of a scene that he's amazing and he he rules the world. I tell him every day. And then she walks away and Miranda's like, I wonder if any woman is ever going to be able to please that man.

And you're like, I know, I know, I know. And then like another woman's like, you know, I just love to play and then I go in the closet and I drink. I can't remember what she says. But you know, the more extreme... But they are, like, of course, because otherwise they're like the comical sort of satires. Yes. And also, I mean, I do think it's true that there's going to be a huge variety of people on the subject matter. Saying, thinking different things. Totally. Which that part different things. Totally.

Which that part was interesting. But I think because we didn't get to develop those characters, it's not that interesting. Which is why we do eventually get rid of it. Yes, exactly. So we go, I love this scene, they go to the drug store to buy the pregnancy test, Miranda and Carrie. And I always loved Miranda and Carrie together.

And I hadn't really realized this entire through line also. Like, they really have these deep talks. The two of them. The whole time since the beginning. That they don't really have with the rest of us, not in the same way. You know? Yeah, it's true. And they're so different.

And I think that Miranda really is more, I don't know, straightforward, tells it like it is to Carrie than the rest of us. Obviously, Charlotte is always like cheerleader. Yes. Yeah. And then I say sort of what she wants to hear, right? Yeah, and positive. Like, just trying to always put the positive on it. And then Samantha might just be like, oh, no, you know, she just might be like, like, don't do that or, you know, like cut to the negative.

I don't know if that's quite the right word, but you know what I'm saying. Like more dismissive, slightly more. Or almost like cynical or whatever. Like, no, that's not going to work out, you know. And then Miranda's just kind of in the middle, but very accurate. Like, she really knows her well,

which I think is also really such a great writing, you know, that they wrote them so early on. And to think about those dynamics separately as well as a whole. Absolutely. And back in this time, and this is also what I love about this episode, all four of us are together for most of the episode, which I love, because we didn't even have the coffee shop set yet, right? So we had had little restaurant scenes

that are actually in little restaurants, but not every episode, which that hadn't kind of gelled yet either. But this particular episode, we're all there, then we all go to the bar, and then we all go to Samantha's, I don't have a baby party, which I think is adorable and hilarious.

And then Lainey comes, we're all mortified. And then Miranda starts making out with Samantha's accountant. But I mean, the thing that's fascinating to me, and this is part of the reason I did the podcast, is that the topics that we used way back then, 1998, are still relevant and interesting, right? That was part of the reason that I thought,

yes, we can do a podcast and we can talk about that and how it's changed or how it hasn't changed or how does this feel to women now or men or anybody, right? It's super interesting. And then some of the things really haven't changed. And I did feel also like there was a lot of behind the scenes stuff that we didn't use to talk about

partly because there was no social media. I don't think people were necessarily as interested in how we made film and TV, you know? Yeah, I agree with you. And we always felt like we might seem like we were complaining if we talked about the fact that we were up all night all the time, because we were up all night all the time. Because that's what we had to do.

And we didn't ever want people to see us as complaining, right? Because we were so thrilled to have our job. You know, our job was like no other job. It was amazing. And we knew that, you know? So we didn't want to be like, oh, we're so tired. You know, we thought that would be bad, like bad form, I guess. Right? Yeah. But I mean, now I feel like everyone knows so much more about how things are made. And, you know, you'll have people out filming when you're filming. We've even shown pictures of of y'all filming. We've seen it. I know. Which you would never have seen that the first time. No. Oh no. First of all it was five in the morning. Yeah. Second of all, no the paparazzi didn't

come and the fans didn't come. I mean the movies, the movies is when... Yes. No, the paparazzi didn't come and the fans didn't come. I mean, the movies, the movies is when, no, no, no, no. Sarah Jessica got pregnant. That was when things changed. And that was so frightening and scary. That was when there was no sense from the magazines that maybe it was inappropriate to chase a pregnant woman around town. I know it was very scary to watch.

And they would sit with us for, you know, 14 hours like it was nuts. Do you feel like that's gotten better? I do. Um, don't want to say too much, but there's like a few people around town who can be like, I think, was it last season? Two paparazzi, maybe second season of And Just Like That. Two paparazzi kind of fist fight over their positioning to be photographing us during a scene. Like, you know, to the point.

And you guys were like, we got to also focus on our job. Right. We need to get through the shot. Yeah. We need to get the shot. We need to not run over you guys. I mean, there clearly is to be a line. I'm safe, I know.

And then if there's like fisticuffs, you know, you're just like, what is going on people? But I mean, at this point we are kind of used to it in a really weird way. I'll tell you what does worry me though, is that sometimes the fans, like Sarah Jessica and I had a walk and talk towards the end and our production value now is like so way up here.

And back in the beginning, it was not, I mean, we did a lot with a little, do you know what I'm saying? But we used a lot of handheld cameras and steady cams and like even just on the shoulder, totally crazy. And we would just wheel these lights down the street. I mean, it was insane, right? But now we have huge cranes, right? And everything's beautifully lit and all the things.

Thank you. Thank you. We try, we try. And Michael Patrick feels very strongly about that. He feels like the fans expect that, and he wants to give that to the fans. Well, because part of it is so visual, right? Like, especially in the movies, too. I think the movies changed the game for us,

and it's hard to go back. We have this fantasy that when we came back for Interest Like That, that we would just be like, guerrilla filmmaking like we used to be at the beginning. I don't know what we were thinking. Yeah, it can be like that. Because it has not been like that. But we try to do our best.

But sometimes we don't walk very fast because we've got the crane and the crane can only move so fast. And I remember seeing somebody watching, a fan watching and saying like, I'm so disappointed. I thought they were walking so much faster. And I wanna be like, well, when it's cut together, it's gonna be okay. Don't ruin it for yourself. And I want to be like, well, when it's cut together, it's going to be OK.

Yes. Don't ruin it for yourself. And also, they didn't know what we're talking about. We're talking about something serious. Yeah. So we're kind of a little more contemplative. Slow and, yeah. Right.

But like, you don't want to ruin it for the viewers. That's what I worry about now. Yeah. Yes. You know? Like, is it too much? Yeah, that there'll be a storyline or something. I remember there was like some photo

that everybody completely obsessed over. And now I can't even remember what it was. Right. Well, that's how it happens. Like, it was Carrie with some man or something. Maybe Aiden was back. Is Aiden back? Oh, yeah, babe. Oh, that was it. You got to catch up. That was it. Aiden's back, baby.

Can you tell? Or you know, is it? I can't tell you anything. He was back and now he's back, baby. Is it? Can you tell? Or no, is it? I can't tell you anything. He was back and now he's kind of gone. Oh. You gotta. I do need to catch up.

You gotta watch. I watched the whole first season, which I was obsessed with. Oh, good. If you like the first season, you'll really like the second season. I'm gonna love it. I need to see it. And the third season's coming soon. Okay, good.

That's adorable. Yeah, Aiden's back. Yeah, I'm not giving anything away. Okay, good. Aiden came back. Okay, when I said that, I was like, am I giving something away? Yeah, no, Aiden came back, and then Aiden left again. Sad. No, just watch.

Okay, watch. Just watch, because there are photographs out there, so I don't think that I'm telling anything I shouldn't be telling. No, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah, I mean, also the funny thing is, sometimes Michael Patrick, who is the one who sometimes really wants us to keep secrets,

he writes these scenes that are on the street. We're like... We're trying to keep a secret, but this is gonna get out. There's a lot of people here. Like many, many people. And John Corbin is very, very tall. Totally.

No one's gonna miss him. Totally. Out on the street. He is there in all his glory. But it's great, great, interesting storyline involving, I'm not gonna give you anything, but I don't think that was not in season two, parenting and divorce and kind of, you know,

things that we have to deal with at this age. I can't wait. Yeah, I hope you like it. I will, for sure. I can't wait to hear. I wanted to ask you too, and this is kind of, you can, you don't have to answer these, but I'm super curious to your thought. Because of the way that we talk about motherhood in this episode, and obviously I wasn't even thinking about these things at the time that we filmed it, right?

But now many, many, many years later, and I've got two kids I adopted and love so much, but also it is really hard to still have a job. Like the whole having it all is really hard. But our characters are before that, but also contemplating, could I possibly do both or not do both? And I was just curious if you had thoughts on that topic

or like giving up your other life. Yeah, I mean, I think obviously you can't have it. I think the idea that having it all is sort of, first of all, nobody's asking like my husband that. People aren't asking men- Good point. If we're giving up things for jobs, you know? Yes, yes, even still in 2025.

Yeah, no, nobody's asking that. And we're talking more about like fair play and there's many friends I have that are doing it on their own. But the point is, I feel like anything that sort of separates women in a time where women need each other. Good point, good point. So, like, when I was pregnant with, or maybe my second daughter, somebody was like, now, are you going to take maternity leave?

And I don't know why it rubbed me the wrong way, but I'm like, why do you care? Totally. What my situation is. That's not your business. First of all, we should all be able to take as much leave as we can, which is not, I just found like that conversations around balance were inherently a little elitist. Like I worked in inner city DC in West Baltimore with parents who did anything for their kids,

but also worked multiple jobs and of course, you know, yeah, And, and nobody was like, so, Hey, what's your balance situation? You know, so I found like, and also when I first had kids, I was like, when people are asking me about that, it made me feel like I was doing something wrong. Right. Because the truth is you can't have it all. Like what you said is so true. It's like something may suffer. And usually what it is is our mental health and our mental health and our time to like, you know,

somebody was like, will you take your shoes off? I'm like, I'll take my shoes off. But my toes look terrible. You know, like, I haven't had time to go get a pedicure. And listen, if I have time for a shower, it's exciting. Yeah, like, and that's all fine. It's sad. It's sad. It's sad. Yeah, fine. Yeah. Of course, we made. Yeah. And that's all fine. It's sad. It is sad. It's sad and fine. Yeah.

It's fine. Of course. We've made these choices. And that is. And I'm thrilled you made those choices with those. Me too. Of course. You know?

And so, but no. And I also had a friend at work who was like, I don't know about having kids. I'm worried. And I will say in my line of work, having kids is just enriched what we do. You know? Yeah, oh, absolutely. Me too. So I said to this person, I'm like,

and also don't let work be the reason. No. You know? No, I agree. I think you have to really deeply listen inside yourself about what you need to be happy. And think about, you know, are you gonna regret? Not making a decision. Right.

You know, Hoda's story is, and she wouldn't mind me saying this because she said it a million times, is she was walking with a friend who, and neither one of them had children, and they were in their like probably late 40s. And the friend said, I mean, you and I, we just never wanted kids.

Oh. And she stopped, and she like internalized it and stopped and was like, I mean, and because nobody asked her, I don't think. Because she hadn't had a partner. And so I feel like, you know, this must resonate a little. It's like, oh, you must have a partner to do it. It's like, no, women can do things on their own. One hundred percent.

But she was like, wait, I actually do. And it was like the second she said it out loud, everything changed for her and she's now adopted her two little girls. I know. So wonderful. I do think it is really interesting, the trajectory of all of it, and I think everyone is so different,

and you need to honor your own self, and not be just, you know, trying to satisfy what the society wants, or what your parents want, or what your friends want, or what your friends are doing. And luckily, I think partly because I was an actress and I lived here and then I lived in LA,

I had people all over the board, you know what I'm saying? Older moms, younger moms, non-moms. You know. I feel that way too. Yeah, it helps. But I'm sure not everybody feels that way. No, of course, but it helps to have. And I do feel, and I'm not 100% sure,

but I do feel like now, out in society, because of social media, you can find your group more so. Yeah, I think you're right. I think, I hope, I hope that that's true. I think you're right. And I do feel like the worst thing I think could be doing something from a pressured place

that you don't feel in your own gut. Because parenting is no joke. No, I know. It is amazing, but it is hard. It's interesting because I don't like... I won't feel bad about work mistakes or... Obviously if I've heard somebody's feelings or something, you know, that hangs on me. But I don't... If I'm like, you know, mess up on the prompter or whatever it is, ask a question that was dumb.

I never think about it again. Right. Right. Right. I'll like stay up all night long. Not because I'm not a warrior, but well, you have to think about the decision. About my kids feeling, you know, if I'm like, and I'll say, you know, like to people like, God, I need more time here or there. I think about that way more than I do. The mental weight, the mental weight of parenting is a lot. And I did not, I did not really realize that.

No, me neither. Yeah, cause two by myself. I mean, if you're not thinking about one, you're thinking about the other. But you're also, you've also given them each other. I have a sister and having a sister is the best. And I didn't. I was single child and that's part of why I did it.

It's the best. I wanted them to have each other. My mom was an only child too. And so she was so thrilled to be able to have siblings because- Talk about the book that you wrote with your mom. No, no. With my sister. Actually with my sister.

No way! Which is exactly what I'm saying. But the gift- Amazing! There's this article called Frank Bruni. It's by Frank Bruni in the New York Times called The Gift of a Sibling. And yeah, Barbara and I, like, we just adore each other. And it's called Loved Comes First. And it's about that parental feeling of like,

it's called I Loved You First. I just made up the title. But you know, that feeling of having a child and thinking like, oh my gosh, like the amount of love is so infinite. And I think all humans have that, you know, that possibility. And I think they have it, you know, whether it's their own child or other children or their whatever is their creation. Exactly. But I do love those books. or other children or whatever is their creation. Right?

But I do love those books. We have a book about adoption that I believe is called something, I can't remember, it's like a baby version about- Like where love comes from or something? Yes, like the love is there and then I had to find you. Which I think is great, whether you're having the baby in the traditional sense or adopting the baby.

Because I do feel like that's true. You know, like there's a space in you that opens and then is filled by that child and then it's way more than you expected. Totally. Yes. And then also your heart's open for more. Yes, yes, yes, it opens again

and I don't think there is a limit really. And I know certainly I was a godmother before I was a mother. And my goddaughter Arden, who I love so much, who I'd love to have on the show one day, because I want to have like many generations, right? You know, I was I was Auntie and Auntie's great. Oh, yeah. So much fun. Yeah, it is and important. Yes.

Like really an important role for kids. Because it's a different role and they can go to you with other things. And you provide a different kind of a safety zone than their own parents. I mean, in this world and particularly now, I feel like we need as much love to go around as possible. No joke. This is true. This is true. Well, I can't wait to get your book. Where can I get your book? I'm like, you can get it at your indie bookstore. I'm like, I should have brought you one and I apologize. Oh, no, that's okay.

I love the indie bookstore. I have a good one in Brentwood I go to. I love the local indie bookstore. Me too, me too. Cool. Let's do that. They're so important for communities. I know, for sure. And also you can find really unique things there, which is so nice. It's nice to just browse in a bookstore like the olden days.

Yes. Well, you are a joy, Jenna. Thank you, Kristin. Thank you for being here. I loved being here. That was so fun. It's fun, right? To relive that episode with you.

I know, I know. And it's so trippy how related it all is and how many conversations you could have. It's true. This could have been a 12 hour podcast.