Are You A Charlotte? - Even Cool Girls Get Lonely with Hoda Kotb…(S5 E2 “Unoriginal Sin”)

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

Kristin is joined by legendary television host Hoda Kotb and Hoda immediately reveals the important role Sex and the City played in her life when she first moved to NYC. They bond over the importance of manifestation and if Charlotte’s manifestations will be successful.   Plus, Kristin reveals secrets of hiding Sarah Jessica Parker’s pregnancy.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis. And I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hello, everyone. Welcome to Are You a Charlotte. We are here with a really fun guest this week, Hoda Coffee. And she is going to talk about her brand and podcast called Joy 101. It's awesome.

And also she's going to rewatch episode 502 on Original Sin, which is season 5, episode 2, written by Cindy Shupac, directed by Charles McDougal. It's a good one. My entire team is like freaking out that I'm sitting here. Oh, that's very sweet. Well, the thing that's funny to me is like coming from where we came, like you doing a talk show, which is a whole different animal and me doing regular film and now we're in podcast world, which is super loosey-goosey. Right?

Are you digging it, by the way? I totally dig it in some ways. In some ways I'm confused. Like some people just do it in their sweats. Right? And I'm trying to get there, but I can't quite do it. We need something. We need a little something.

Right? Like I still put a little makeup on. I feel, right? I mean, we have our comfy shoes on. Cozy. I know. I'm with you. I do like the vibe of it. I love the vibe. I feel like. And by the way, one of the things that I feel like I was missing after leaving the Today Show was having beautiful conversations. Because, you know, they were so baked into either life or just the makeup room or somehow you're having these good convos. But now we get to sit, be curious about each other. We're allowed to talk as long as we want. Absolutely. That part's amazing.

I love, I mean, for mine, I have the rewatch part, which, you know, it's like fun, but also sometimes I'm like, oh, I just want to talk. But it is also fun because it brings up so many, like the show has so many interesting topics, right? Which is kind of a jumping off point. But the thing that's nice for me, because I'm a single mom, like you, of two children, I don't have this time to see my friends and talk to people. No. Yes. So it gives you that.

your life, right? So this is interesting. I just, Maria Shriver posted something, and it said life in the 1920s, and it went through ticking each year, and it had categories, friends and family, housework, hobbies, blah, blah, and then it showed, TV kicked in, whatever in the 50s, who knows when that happened. Right. So then it was like TV. Then you see the shifts of the categories.

But what happened over time was friendships that were huge. dropped so far down because when we see someone on Instagram, we're like, oh, we saw they had a great vacation. I'll catch up with them. And then when you see them, it's almost like second reference. How was that? Yes. And you're like, I already saw the pictures, but how was it? Oh, it's fun. That's so true. But anyway, it reminded me that friendships, connection, yeah, that gets buried because everything else, even like streaming, Netflix, everything was so high, Instagram, TikTok, so high. But sitting, face to face was near the bottom. I know.

So it's nice that we found a job that we can sit and chat. So good. And actually have a good conversation where you're not trying to get necessarily sound bites or whatever you would normally be doing in your job, right? Totally. I know it is a nice. I also feel like it is the Wild Wild West. Like you're here in New York on our same floor.

Our studios are now next to each other. Studio is also kind of a loose term. But when I first came to this, floor in New York for the IHeart building. The whole floor looked as though like a natural disaster. It happened and everyone just got it from their desks and ran out. Did you see, now they've cleaned the desks for you, Hoda. I want you to know that. I think I might have missed that window. But when I walked in, I was like, ooh, snacks. I know. It's snacks. They have best for you. It's snacks for you. It's now very nice. There's now two dressing rooms and two studios. And then

one time I was here and there were three people. And I was like, wow. Because when I came out, was the first one up here. You were the one? Wow. I don't know, probably when I wasn't here. I'm not, I'm usually in LA, as you know, but it was like everyone was like, get out of the building and they just left all their stuff. Like it was crazy.

But here we are on the forefront of this crazy podcast world. It's really interesting, but welcome. Thank you. I'm happy to be sitting with you. I'm so glad you're here. Because I feel like the longest conversations you and I have ever had are four minutes. I know, which is hard. The show is in and out.

We pack a lot in. It's true. But also there was like the commercial. You always feel like you. And then there's seeing you in the dressing room, seeing you, you know, so you feel. And then also over time, which is nice. And then I would see you in New York sometimes, which is nice. Yeah, absolutely.

But I agree. It's nice to have a format where you can actually go in depth. Yes. And where that's actually applauded, you know? And also you can just go wherever you feel like going. I mean, especially on yours, because you don't have. I love, by the way, I love it so much. I feel like everyone's like, no one has an attention span.

You know, eight seconds on TikTok. I'm like, yeah. And people like to sit and listen to a good conversation. As long as it's good, they'll sit and listen. I will too. I'm the same. I feel like I don't have time, but I'll stop in my tracks when I hear a great convoy. That's true.

But also, the great thing about podcasts, you don't have to stop. Like I do the laundry and listen to my podcast. I drive and listen to my podcast. I'm not into the watching yet. I understand there are people who are into the watching. There are those people. I'm with you. Audio is the new video or video is the new audio or whatever. But I listen, but you can listen and function, but yet your brain is engaged in a way

where you're not so bored doing your chores. Yes. I love that. I love that too. And also driving. If you get stuck because I'm in L.A., right, you might get stuck having to go so far. I know. And why not?

I mean, look, I feel like you get to live one life and I get to live one life. And the only time we get to see beyond that is when we are listening. to someone else's life experiences. And to be able to go, I don't know that I'll ever live that, but I just learned a lesson that Kristen learned. Or I just figured out something. Or I like how this person described how they started their day. And I kind of dig that.

Like, I'm going to try that tomorrow. Or just things that you can take. I feel like, and then I'm someone who's always blabbing. I'm like, oh my God, guess what I heard? Like as if I had invented whatever the jewel was. That's great, though. So wait, just tell our listeners, because we're obviously. We're over here in my world.

Now we're going to go to your world later. Tell our listeners a little bit about Joy 101. So Joy 101 is a company that I founded a year and change ago. It was right after I left the Today Show, which was kind of a big, huge step for me. And also a step that was exactly right for me. And the way I know when I've made a right decision in my life is if I can sleep. If I can sleep, then I know I've made the right decision. So no matter how difficult a decision is, and I'm a person that once I make the decision, it's done.

I've, in any job I've ever been in, I've never gone, oh, let me see what's happening back there so I can figure out if I should have stayed on that train or on this train. No, because I think you almost have to decide and go straight forward. You have to work. You have to make it work. Yeah, you choose. And I feel like life is a series of choices. Yeah. So I also knew when I was leaving the Today Show that there was something else that I wanted to do.

And I think once you know something that's been bubbling up, and for me, wellness was, wellness is such a buzzword. And everyone's, you know, in it or talking about it. It's almost like a yawn. You're like, in a wellness company. Everyone's like, oh, good. You know. But this to me is more than that. because the thing I loved about the Today Show the most was the joy piece.

Like I felt like it was a place where you could find it, find joy, bring joy. And joy comes in, there's joy in sports, there's joy in music, there's joy in meditation, there's joy in all these different parts of you. So I said to myself, I have one, you know, I get one ride around the sun. That's it. So what do I want to do? I want to fill people's cup. Look, I don't care about how much something makes.

I couldn't give a rip. What I really want to do is leave this, whenever I leave this earth, I want it to be like, wow, they gave back. They helped out. They did something. They made someone feel better because otherwise, what's the point? Honest to God, like, what are we doing? Yeah. And so I said, let's start a company called Joy 101 that has all these facets to it.

It's a place where people can go on beautiful retreats and feel totally transformed. Not like where you get a goodie bag and feel like you had a massage and heard someone great speak. That was amazing. Not that. Okay. The kind that is immersive, that when you leave, you say to yourself, oh my gosh, that was one of these transformational experiences. And we put on one of these retreats, and we have another one that's coming up. Two more that are scheduled.

And I tell you, I've been to a ton of retreats. I don't know if you have, I love them. This one by far was like transformational. And we had 250 women, 200 of them wound up on a Facebook group together. Wow. Without our help. Amazing. It just showed the power of it.

And we did things, we did breathwork. We had incredible, we had all kinds of transformational things that were next level. We did one breathwork class where everybody sat in chairs opposite a stranger. Oh, my. And you started the breathwork with this guy named Anthony and you breathe in and out. You thought, oh, well, what's this going to be about? So what? You know, breathe in and out.

I've been breathing for 61 years, yawn. But as you're doing it, you realize that something starts bubbling up. And he's speaking about, you know, the topic here is forgiveness. So you breathe. a stranger's eyes and you go through this process and and then he says okay now stand up now you move down a chair and now you look at someone new when you were finished with this exercise that looks just like I wonder what this is I cannot tell you what happened one woman said I haven't cried in five years I feel like bottleneck I couldn't one person said that my husband was

going through a difficult period and I didn't even think I wanted to come but I feel replenished, renewed. Anyway, so these retreats, and we have great speakers, and we do all the rest too, and music and all the things. Oh, nice. But so anyway, it was a way, this company was a way for me to do all the things I want to do. Amazing. To help people out. Yeah. It's cool. It's really cool. So you have retreats, and then you have, you drive people around in a car and talk to them. Yes, I drive people around in a car. We call them Joy Rides. Okay, joy rides. So it's kind of like a conversation, but maybe not as long as your podcast. And then you also have a podcast.

And I have a podcast too. And then we do, we're doing all kinds of really cool and interesting things that I think are going to be helpful to people. And I feel like, again, like, you know, I got to a certain age and I was like, why don't I feel the way I want to feel? Like, I haven't changed anything. I'm eating broccoli. I'm like spinning at Soul Cycle. I still, but I don't have the sparkle. And what is that?

And is it findable? And the answer to me is, yes, it is. There are so many different avenues to try, and there are so many solutions that are out there. Do you think, because it's interesting, when you were telling me the different adjectives that you would perceive that you're doing, a lot of them are kind of service-related. Do you feel, you know, there's that thing Oprah talks about, about, like, different people have different kind of, you know, things that are going to, you know, satisfy them or please them or, you know, give them deep, deep feeling of satisfaction. Do you feel service is that for you? Yes. I do feel like that's a big part of me.

I think it's like, you know, when somehow you feel better and then you see your best friend or your sister, somebody doesn't. Right. And you're like, we could, let's help here. Right. There are things we can do to help. Yes. And I just feel like we're, you know, it's the whole Mr. Rogers like look for the helpers.

I feel like that's what I want us to be. Right. And I want to be. and I want my kids to be. I want my kids to be those kind of people. Right. So I do think services is the way that I lean. And I also think we all deserve to feel good.

Not everything is about, oh, so you're 60, whatever, and of course you're feeling terrible. Well, actually... No, let's reject that. We don't think so. No. No, we don't think so. Well, that's kind of like that thing

that society is going to kind of push on you to some extent. And I also think that the wonders of social media are that you can connect with people, but then sometimes the negative voices seem to gain power or the algorithm rewards or something. So sometimes that can also be negative stuff coming at you. Yes. About age, about whatever, you know what I'm saying?

Rather than the helpful part, which I think you have to look for a little more. Yes, and I think it's funny. It's like that whole, like, whatever you put in becomes you. Definitely. And it's so true. And I've, you know, we've all gone through seasons where sometimes you're just in a funk.

Right. Or you're burnt. I think you get burnt out in our life. Like we're going, going, doing, doing. We're not really thinking about filling the cup. As you said, you know, everyone needs their cup to be filled. And I think it is like whatever you're, you know what kind of moods you're in. Look at your algorithm.

Whatever you're getting overdosed on, that's on you. Because that means that's where you're stopping. That's where you're lingering. That's what you're interested in. Right. And you really, we all have to change our algorithm. Because, I mean, look, you can have an algorithm full of, you know, people giving money away to somebody and a beautiful affirmation. And, oh, my God, FIFA, they scored.

And the guy's giving his shirt to a competitive team, but they're all hugging. Like, you can have that algorithm and see the world in that beautiful way. Right. I was just, my mom is in an assisted living place. And I was, I went to speak bragging at their place. And as I was speaking, we were talking about. how we all view the world and a woman walked up to me and she handed me a she said will you sign my book you know I had some book she will you sign this for me I said oh sure and she goes I had mine

I said oh I want I want to see so I looked at it was a poetry book and this woman named peggy is a poet and on the back of the book where it was a published book were all of these beautiful poets who had talked about her incredible writing oh and I thought sitting here you know in this nice place but this woman who has all of this beautiful knowledge and all of this stuff. And the way she sees the world is with beauty. Someone else might look out at the same, out of the same window and say, oh, what a terribly cloudy day. How horrible. And she would write a poem about it. That would be something captivating. Interesting. Just thinking about like, you know, any, like, look, you and I could both be sitting in these chairs and we're living in two different

worlds. And here we are. Absolutely. Together, 100%. Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean, this is true all the time, I think, right? Like, people are in their own existence, and there's a lot that goes into that, and you never really know, you know what's going on with people. Yeah. And I do think also, like, you could only really control your own world and what you're putting back out into the world, right? And sometimes there's, like, too many, like horrible, horrible things are happening

to people, right? And you can't necessarily just change that as much as we would like to and as much as we all want to try. But you can create something positive. that people can come to, which is what you've done with Joy Warner 1, which I love. And just in life, you can create something like I was, I saw something, I can't remember. Oh, it's someone that I follow, actually. This young man in South Carolina, he has this dog.

And I have dogs and elephants and cats on my feed currently, and almost always. But he was so sweet. He was talking about how he'd gone through this really hard. He's in his 20s, right? He was talking about he'd gone through this really hard time. And that he really felt like I've got to pull myself out of this depression. I'm just so depressed. I can't get out of the house.

I'm just really down. And he said, I'm just going to start complimenting strangers. That was the first step he made. Wow. Isn't that super interesting? He just said, I like your shoes. He was in line at the grocery store, and he turned to this really much, much, much older woman and told her he liked her dress.

And he said she looked at him like he was insane. But that, you know, once he just stood there enough so that she realized that he wasn't, like, crazy or going to hurt her or whatever, you're not. Because it is a weird thing, right? Yes. That once she realized he was just being genuine and wanted to say something positive, that it really meant a lot to her and that it kind of derailed her day in a positive way. Isn't it?

And he changed the whole course. Right? That was his first step. And then there's a lot of other steps that he made after that once he started feeling better. And it was so great that he was talking about it because he's young and he doesn't, it's not like he's practiced or worldly or whatever, but he's just like working on. himself in a way and trying to put it out there in the world. And I'm so impressed with that.

The thing that also comes to my mind as you're talking about this is that in this episode, because you have very generously agreed to rewatch Unoriginal Sin, which is a super fascinating episode. And in it, Charlotte goes to a self-help thing. I totally forgotten about this. By the way, I was so connecting with Charlotte. And first of all, can I just say, sex in the city premiered in 98. that was the first year I moved to New York and started working at Dateline.

By the way, when I got to New York, I arrived from New Orleans, scared of everything. Wow. Couldn't understand how to navigate New York. Terrifying, right? It's a lot. It's a lot. My mom came to help me move into my apartment. I had an apartment on 81st.

And as I was there, I said, I don't know anybody, and I don't know how anyone ever knows anybody. And within, I don't know how long, my mom knew the guy who ran the bodega. The Starbucks barista had her order. Wow. This is my daughter. This is Hoda. She's cut. And I was like, wait, what's happening?

My mom's introducing me. And then I realized you only had to know your singular block. Right. And then you had a big difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But sex in the city was like almost like a warm blanket because I was like, wait, How do people? And then I watched you guys.

And I was like, wait. Okay, so these are four cool girls who are navigating through. They're all different. And so I had such a kind of warm blanket feeling because I used to sit in coffee shops alone because I didn't know without like a read the paper or read a book. I'm like, maybe I'll meet someone just sitting here. And I worked at Dateline. So I was constantly flying to a prison in Kentucky or wherever.

So I didn't even have a constant sketch. to be with my colleagues. It was like, you're, oh, you're gone, right? Or you're flying, right? But anyway, it was so interesting. So to start off, that was such a touch point. And I can only imagine how many other women who were new to New York thinking, can I make it here?

Is it possible? Yeah, yeah. But that, but Charlotte's whole post, like, breakup kind of divorce. Yeah. And the whole like I, and. quitting. I was like, girl shows up. It's true. It's true.

The thing that I love in this episode, because I don't remember a lot of this, right? Like, there's things that I remember really, really well. But once we get to a certain time, because in season three, I think we did 18, and season four we did 18, it's a lot, right? And then also we're getting success. We're going to all award shows,

and your head's just spinning even if you're not at work. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And things get a little fuzzy. So, like, I hadn't remembered everything in a linear way. And I've forgotten about this in-between time when she's divorced from Trey hasn't really gotten together with Harry yet, right? It's an interesting time. And Charlotte never gives up. That's one of the things that I love the most about her. And she almost always believes,

but here in this episode, we're seeing her falter. We're seeing her not sure if she can still have hope. Yes. Rare. This is rare, right? For starters, yeah, the fact, Charlotte's always hopeful. So you always feel like I see a part of myself in her. I'm like, yes, of course it's going to be happening. Of course you're going to find him. Of course it's going to work. It's that whole I tell my kids thoughts become things. Like think the thing, think the thing, thoughts become things. And then there was that part where at the self-help meeting when the cheerleadery go-go, you know, woman in the front who was like telling everyone, you can have everything. And she was on my nerve, sorry. I know. And then the fact that your character that Charlotte stood up and said, actually, I am trying.

And she's like, no, you're not. I know. Which is like the dark side of us anyway. Maybe I'm not trying. I know. And I've been to self-help things like that where they are really critical of you. I have been to that. And it is messed up.

It's messed up. And the way she kept saying no. And you're like, well, actually, I'm putting myself out. No, not enough. And not in the right way. Moving on. But every woman who has. tried. And, you know, sometimes you have your blue sky friends who are like, just go, just do this.

You can. You're amazing. And you're like, right on your mirror. Like you see Charlotte writing on her mirror. I know. What was it? You're loved or whatever. Yeah. I know. When you're taking the lipstick. First of all, any affirmation I'm for, but there was something that's almost heartbreaking about someone who's almost like you're, you're doing all the right things. Yeah. It's like I followed the rulebook. Where's the end here? Right. doing what you're telling me. Yes. You know.

Yes. And they say, you know, like life happens right on time and you can be, you know, forcing it or maybe it's now or maybe if I was just this way or maybe if I tried to be like that. Right. I could find the brass ring that everybody else has and where's mine. Right. But, you know, here's to all the late bloomers out there. Absolutely.

And also I just think it, you know, and for Charlotte, obviously we know so much is coming, but it's so interesting to see like. I so relate also to trying so hard and feeling like, okay, I'm going to follow this person who's going to tell me what to do, right? And so she drags Carrie to this thing. All women there. All searching, right? And this woman up there in her suit is like, well, are you really? Are you really?

You know, it's just harsh. It's so harsh and annoying. And I just love how Charlotte really bravely, so bravely, stands up and says, you know, she really is trying, but she did have it all. and then it just totally fell apart and she doesn't know what to do and she's been doing the affirmations because I do think affirmations are a tricky one because there's a lot of people on Instagram

and everywhere else, TikTok telling you about affirmations, right? And I do love affirmations, but I also feel, and I'm talking about Kristen and Life, not Charlotte, I also feel that sometimes you're doing like a wrote affirmation that you think you should be doing, but your body knows that you don't believe it.

Do you think that's something? Yes, I believe it 100%. And that's not. can go through the motions. It's like a pretender. It's like, let me go through and I'm going to keep saying that and saying that. And you're right. If your body doesn't believe you. And look, sometimes repetition helps and sometimes it doesn't. Right. And I think sometimes you don't know what else to do.

And in that case, I feel like that's a positive thing. It's a lot better than beating yourself up. Doing something is important. Something positive, something towards positive. I do something with my kids. I actually heard someone say this and it's about repeating things. and it works to put them to sleep, but it also works to calm yourself, any of us.

Let's hear it. So the first thing, okay, so when I say, I get them tucked in bed, and the first thing that we say is, I am safe. So you repeat it, I am safe, not until I am safe. I go, keep saying it, sweetie, I'm safe.

Until your body goes, your body believes it. I'm sorry. Okay. The second one, which is my hardest one, is there is no urgency. Ooh. There's no urgency. Wow. There's no urgency. And you repeat it and repeat it and repeat it. Not until your brain gets it. You keep repeating it, and there will come a time, no matter how many times you have to repeat it, that your body goes. Okay. And then the last one is, I am still and calm. I am still and calm. And you repeat it until you. your body size. And when your body's size, it means your body's like, okay, you're right, I got

you. But those three things, my kids often fall asleep. I do it sometimes before a big speech or something. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like there's no words. Like, we're going to, it's going to happen. That's great. And when you're done, it's helpful. But when it comes to affirmations, I get it. There's some blue sky kind of BSC things that you feel like, please, you know, I mean, There are a point, like I have so many affirmations on my feed that after a while, sometimes I, I roll it. I'm like, okay, here's another one. But I think it's like, you know, using them sparingly and using them in the right way, like Charlotte. Right. And I also do think that, like, if you're really thinking about times, like I can think about times, you know, in my 20s where, you know, you're just, you don't know what's going to happen.

And life is just like upside down. You don't know what's going on. That's a better thing to do than a lot of other things. things one could be doing, right? So I think there's that. I think something seeps in somewhere. Yeah, yeah. I try to go to as many of those kinds of things. I was listening to a guy who does a podcast and he said, he's wanted to be a coach and he ended up being a great one. But he said for every weekend, for 52 weeks in one year, I went to some kind of a thing like that. Either it was a week in retreat and online learning, a thing. I made it a habit for 52 weeks. That's a lot. I was going to learn something.

I was going to do a course online or listen to whatever, go to the 92nd Street Y and listen to a speaker or do whatever. Did all the things for 52 weeks. And imagine if you did that for one day, one, you know, two hours or three hours, for a year. Wow.

How much richer you would feel inside, how much you'd know, how much you'd feel different. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I thought it was cool. That's interesting. I mean, do you think like there's so many different, different kind of modalities and, you know, meditation theories and yoga and different. There's so many different things.

And if you do go on a kind of journey to find one that clicks with you, you can find one. I think that's key. But I also think not everyone can do that, right? So then it's nice to know little kind of almost like tricks and tools along the way, right? Totally. Which is cool. All right, let's talk about the episode for a second. I can talk to you about all things, but we're going to talk over in your room.

Later, it's going to be really fun. Okay. Get Bell, Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, Chairman and CEO of IHeartMedia. I also led the team that created MTV, and my co-founders and I are celebrating MTV's 45th anniversary this month.

on my podcast, Math and Magic, stories from the Frontiers of Marketing, you'll hear the untold origin story from the people who built MTV from the ground up. I want my MTV! Those are powerful words, my, something for me that felt like mine and want.

What a powerful word. Listen to Math and Magic, stories from the Frontiers of Marketing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist, Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up, y'all?

your girl, Sam J. And we're the host of everyone watches women's sports, a new podcast from Together and I Heart Women's Sports. Because let's be real. Women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days. So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii. My first thought is, like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we eating?

The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire timeline. And the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports. Naomi Osaka showing out. She beat Sabalinka. Shout out to you, Naomi. You get the palm, Naomi. You get the palm for that.

Because we're not just interested in what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's sports. On the IHeart Radio app. Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, Portlandia fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen here.

You know us or rather you know them. Tony and Ken. Candice, Nina and Lance, Spike, and yes, The Chicken. We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia, AEO rewatch, our brand-new podcast. Each week, we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning, breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process.

How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it. And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Chrysall, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more. Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvised, not just words, but a song.

Well, I thought he was going to write. I thought you were all going to write a song. I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia. Ayo, Rewatch on the IHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. So this is a cool episode because we're back. This is us coming back in season five after Miranda has had her baby,

which is a very big shift and change for our whole episode. Can I also say our whole show, you have given such sweet interviews over time about sexicity. It's so sweet. Love. At one point you said something about that you felt like it let other people know who were like sitting by themselves in their living room that were single, that it's okay.

We're all together. That was such a huge. I don't think, I mean, maybe you guys do know, I'm sure millions of people have come up to you over the years and said, hey, you don't know what it meant. But there is, when you can see yourself, your situation in somebody else and realize, like, wait, even cool girls get lonely. Right. Or wait, even cool girls get confused. Definitely. Make mistakes.

Make mistakes. Yes. And even someone who can be like, like Samantha, such a ball. loss and also can be so vulnerable. And you can see like all these different parts. And I think there was something about that that made all of us feel like either less alone. And also it's fun to see something ambitious. It's like, oh, cool clothes, fun.

Okay, what are they doing? Where are they going? So New York can be this too, this fun, cool, vibrant, glamorous place. And sometimes you're just eating a pizza in your apartment, which is most of the days. Most of the time, it kind of felt like that, but to see that they weren't by themselves. Yeah, yeah. It's nice. It's so nice to have people like yourself out there, you know. Of course. God. Proping us up. You don't even mean. I love it. But at this point in time, it's fun for me to look back because some of it I really remember, some of it I don't. Right.

Like, I did not remember. This is the great episode where Anne Mira comes as Steve's mom. Oh, right. Right. God, that was, by the way, first of all, this. This is the great. First of all, The fact that Miranda never met her, that was so, for some reason, that was so jarring in rewatching it because I rewatched it too. I was like, wait, how, what does that say about their relationship if you have never bothered or never wanted or he never offered? Like, what does that tell you? Well, it says a lot of things, though, which is interesting and it's interesting that we're now shifting, right? Because the theory and the plan from the get-go had been that we wouldn't see everyone's family. Like we never see mine.

We don't see carries, right? We talk a little about them peppered through. There's little hints. But Michael Patrick and Darren believed, and I think Candice in her original column, you know, in New York you don't say, like, where are you from? Her are your parents, right? Like, everyone's here now. You're here now.

You've come here to this great city for some reason, right? You probably were talking about that reason, not about what you left. That's interesting. I didn't think about that. Right. Yeah, that makes so much sense. So when she popped up, it was excellent. extra like, wait, what is happening?

Yeah, and also because she pops up with, I mean, she's just so fascinating immediately. First of all, everybody loves her. Right. And secondly, to watch her in that role and she's so kind of, yeah, oh, she's so good. It's incredible. What's that like being with her? She's a sweetheart. I mean, she's just a sweet, sweet lady, and there were so many connections.

I think Sir Jessica knew her. We all know Ben, of course. I think Sir Jessica knew. Jerry, I mean, I feel like Michael Patrick, like, there was connections, but I also feel like it was kind of like the dream was to have Amira play, Steve's mother, and then it happened, which you're just like, you know, it's amazing. I love it. It's amazing.

And also just the New York lore that came with her and Jerry. Incredible. I mean, you just, perfect. You just forget all these cool people who popped up. I know. We were so lucky. Well, everyone was probably knocking on your door. I don't know if they were not going on our door.

I know that we would always really just try. You know, we would always have our dream, our wish. And sometimes it would work out. And sometimes it wouldn't, like, schedule-wise or whatever, this or that. And I think sometimes, like, when, isn't this the episode where Amy Sedaris and Molly Shannon are sitting there, too, which is so funny. By the way, that was one of my favorite little scenes. It's great.

They play, like, book publishers. They're her. They want her to write a book. They want her to write a book. They want her to write a book. And I know, and Carrie's kind of like trying to be real and they're like. She's also like, do I want to? Do I want to? Carrie, hello. The answer is. Yes. Those two together. They're funny. So brilliant. So funny and I forgot they were in that one too. I know. And I knew Molly had been on the show and I knew Amy had been on the show. But I didn't remember in what way. And then to see them there and they're so believable as book editors. Oh, I believed. And they were sassy. And they were like, because you're hopeful, right? What's your point of view? And she's like, ah. Well, I think I'm able.

Right. And this is like one, almost pretty much a downtime for Carrie because Aiden's gone, Big is gone. Big has moved to Napa. Right. This is what happened at the end of the last season. Oh, that's right. So now, and now, and she thought it's so funny because when things start going wrong in life and she was thinking, I have nothing to write about, my column is terrible, nobody likes it,

I'm writing about boring things. And you know when you think everything is going wrong? So her editor is like hounding her and she's like, I'm not taking that call. I'm going to get fired. I'm going to get fired. Right. It's so funny how life is. You think that everything is like cascading.

Right. When in reality, he walks up to her and says, hey, good news. Right. We want you to write, put this in a book or someone wants you to put out. 100%. And I also thought it was interesting because number one, she absolutely believes that everything's bad. Yes. Because she's writing about socks and she can't come up with anything, right?

And she thinks she's going to get fired because that's her mindset, right? But then the world is actually giving you something different. So it's kind of the opposite of affirmations in a way, right? But then when they try to give it to her, she's like, well, I don't know if I want to write a book. And Samantha has to tell her like, yes, you do. Everyone and their brother has a book. Everyone who's worth anything has a book or whatever. It's pretty funny.

But you also like, Carrie, like, you know, expand your thinking there. Right. But she's so kind of shut down. Isn't it? She's thinking, like, my life's got to be here. And a book's out of my reach. I can't have that. And I also think some of it is the times, right?

Because like if you think about now, and I think because all of us are doing all the things and are able to thank goodness, but also I feel like because of social media and the way the world has changed, everyone is able to create their brand and do this and do that. And I think we're all much more aware of it. That's a good point. So back then, you would think of a book as a huge mountain to climb. Now it's sort of like, you know, check out who's got a book out this week. Exactly.

That's so interesting. That's so I just love how she, her character is such a fierce defender of you and of the other characters. I just love the whole idea that you've got, everyone needs a friend who's like, uh-uh, you're not messing with my people. Like I love that you all have that together, but it was on display in that episode. I mean, that's the thing. It is really interesting to see the things that live on, you know, the things that are the, the strongest messages that come out of it. And I feel like the friendship part of it is the strongest thing. You know, and all of the relationship things we can talk about and they're interesting.

And I think that relationship stuff lasts forever because it's always on people's minds, right? Like it's never going to change. And the specifics might change. Like now there's dating apps, whatever. We didn't have that. But the issues are still the same, right? But the friendship and the strength of the friendship, the importance of the friendship now, I think, are much more accepted. in society, which is back then, everyone was like, well, I don't have that much time to spend with my friends, which was true, you know, but also now I think people realize, no, that's important. That's actually super important. Yes.

That's such a good, important fact. And in that episode, too, when you're talking about it, it was sort of like Carrie's character just wanted to be with the girls. And everybody else was thinking about, well, we got to meet guys. Right. And she was like, but what about us? Right. we all just hear?

It's true. Isn't this like us? Do we come here together? That's so true. But it's also like that's kind of different. And I do think like in the 90s when we started the show, you know, people are like, oh, you're all just talking about men. I feel like that's what it was.

I mean, it doesn't mean that you didn't enjoy being with your friends, but you were together with your friends trying to figure the men out. Yes, of course. Because they were confusing, you know, which they still are. But you don't know what I mean? They were very confusing back then because they were like elusive and withholding all of those things was just totally normal, right? It's all interesting. We didn't even talk about those words back then. Isn't that so funny how, but it's all still so relevant. Like when I was watching it,

that's the other thing that struck me, I was like, it is so interesting that all the topics, and I'm sure you've noticed this. I mean, it's so cool that you're doing the podcast this way. I love this format of breaking it down because you're right. There's so many things in each one that's like a life lesson, a way to believe what's this about. And I just think it's still, still holds. It does. It's crazy. Yeah, it really does.

That's the writers. You know, the writers were just so great and they took so many chances. Yes. Because HBO allowed us also, right? We didn't have focus groups. We weren't on a network. We didn't have to worry about advertisers. Right.

You did your own thing. They let us do our thing, which was so rare, right? So incredibly rare. But when I'm watching this particular episode and the, I guess it starts at the finale of season four when she had, has the baby because that's a huge, huge, huge departure, right? Yeah. And now all of a sudden, we've got Anne Mera, we've got a mother-in-law, even though they're not married, right?

And we're going to a church to baptize the baby. And we suddenly are in like a drama. Like the music starts and it's beautiful. It is beautiful. And I thought it was so interesting about you and Carrie's characters. Like your character was so upset that she wasn't asked to be the godmother. I know. And Carrie was just sort of like, I don't know if I want to do that.

Another sort of, I'm not sure. Why am I doing this? Why does she want me? That's her general thing. Yeah. It's interesting. It's very interesting. I know.

I did feel bad for Charlotte then, too, because I had forgotten, right? And I'm like, oh, no, that's going to hurt her. Yeah. You know, because Charlotte is so sensitive. And it is one of the things that Michael Patrick talked about when they decided to have Miranda, have the baby, was that it was about trying to, you know, Charlotte, this is what Charlotte wanted, right? the dream wedding, the dream husband, the dream baby.

But she can't get everything she wants because that's just not how life is, right? And so everything fell apart and she can't have children or she has trouble having children. And so what's that going to be? And she has to always be coming up against that, which is what makes it interesting, right? But then it's also, you know, it's like everyone's kind of down in a really interesting way, you know? But yet it's also still beautiful. It was beautiful. Right?

It was so, there was something so beautiful about it when they were pouring the holy water on the baby. And the music. And the music. And then that scene about how the holy water kind of hit Carrie's arm. And it was like, it was just so, and she said, and she made some comment about that. You know, I hope some of this holy water lands on me. But as I was watching the whole vibe of everything, totally agree. And it was just such an, like, you don't, I mean, I can't, first of all these things happened in one episode.

100%. That's the other thing I was struck by. I was like, you pack it in. Yes. It's insane. It's insane. But, okay, so let's just go over, Carrie, a little bit. We covered a lot of the big things.

I mean, and you're right. There's just so much that you can't even get your mind around it or whatever. But so we go to the self-help thing. And I was just so, so, it's one of those times where you're, because I couldn't really remember. I remember I had to stand up and give a speechy kind of a Charlotte thing. But I didn't remember the gist of it. I didn't remember that lady was going to be mean to me.

And how many times have I felt that? in like a you go, you're going to try to get help. And yet these people, they have, there's like a negativity oftentimes in these kind of self-help worlds. I mean, the fact that you stood up, your character stood up, spoke volumes to me. It's a room full of people. You know, you're feeling kind of weird. Think about the courage it takes as a kid to raise your hand in class and say the thing.

Especially the thing that's contrary to what this person. Right, because this other lady was just like, I did what you said. I've got it all. And I got my husband. And all happened in two days. Right. You're like, okay. And so to have the courage, which the thing that spoke to me was, do you ever see

Dead Poet Society? Of course. Do you remember when he stands up on the desk and says, oh, captain, my captain? So good. So I always think about that. Like, what does it take to stand up to be the first one to stand up? Not the second or the third. The one who says, I'm going to risk it.

I'm standing on this desk. I'm talking to everybody. I could go down and I don't care if I'm all alone. Amazing. It's like that feeling. And when your character stood up there in that moment and knew,

I'm sure like you picture heart pounding, palm sweating, saying the thing. And then when she gave you the cheerleading speech after you said, I had everything and I lost everything. I don't think it's coming. And then she gave you the speech of like, nope, just keep on going.

And you're like, actually, there was even more. It wasn't like you went, thank you, sit down. And I thought she was. she might because I didn't remember what I did, right? Yes. Because she's a people pleaser. That's exactly right. But she didn't.

And so many women, I think, are the kind who were like, I'm not going to say anything. Maybe someone else will say the thing. Right. You know, and then I'll say, oh, yeah, I felt that too. Right, right, right, right. I don't have the guts to stand up and actually say it myself. But I think it spoke a lot about your character. And then when it was over your portion and then Carrie jumps in and gives an extra swing

and says, no, she did. Hey, hey, she did. She tried. The woman's like, no, not hard enough. You know, but you felt the friendship and the courage and the bravery and all the things. Absolutely. When you're weak, when you're both in a weak state. Right. Right. Right. Right. And to be able to do that is pretty cool. I agree. It was great. And I hadn't remembered it, but it was so good. And it's just one episode. That's also the other thing. I'm like, wow, I know. I know. We were just firing on all cylinders at this point. Yes. So then, then we.

So back to the book part for Carrie, which is also so funny because we know later on she writes multiple books, right? And like, you know, it's interesting to see, I had forgotten how we kind of track along with her in the show, right? But also the show is based on Candace's book, which was from her column in a paper. It's all really so interesting. And then obviously we make it into the show. And then at some point they talked to Carrie about making it into a movie. Oh, yeah. Which just happened.

But they talk about it. It's all very interesting. Meta. It's kind of meta. everything is. And when all of a sudden we see Molly and Amy Siddaris there just cracks me out. No. Those two are those two just sitting next

to each other. I was laughing before they said one. So fantastic. I know so fantastic. And you believed, I believed every single thing they said. Me too. And then Molly went on to be on divorce with Sarah, her show that she did after on HBO and Amy's one of her best friends and we see them all the time, which we love, we love them. It's so

wonderful to have those actors. I just think Amy period is like gold. Gold. She is just such a unique human being in all the ways. Yeah. She's been on the Today Show many times, and I can't remember what she was doing. She would like cook and crafting. I just remember laughing. I don't even remember what she did. No, she's funny. No matter what she does. I agree. I agree. I agree. I've seen her in her off time, so sometimes she's not funny, which is also interesting.

I'm always thrown by comedians who aren't funny in the moment, even though how can they possibly be? Of course. And I'm sure, I always think about that when I'm interviewing a comedian. I wonder how hard it is to always think, now do the thing again. You have to sit. I just interviewed Seth Myers for the podcast. And I thought, I mean, he was so naturally hilarious. But I was wondering if every time they sit down, it's like, okay, I can't be just the normal guy I am at home.

I can't just be the guy who, you know, sits and then, you know, plays my cat. I got to turn the lights on. I got to do the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I also think, and I don't know him well enough to know, but I also think there is the thing too where like if they don't have that, then they're really unhappy also, right? Like they need that.

They need it. Right, they do. Yeah. It's interesting though. It's interesting. I mean, I'm sure their wives, you know, we should ask their wives what goes on when they're at home. They know the truth. All right, let's talk about, we talked about Charlotte.

I mean, I had forgotten all this. I forgot about Charlotte and Carrie sitting there in the cold. Whenever we would come back to work, it would be February. And in this particular episode, it's wet. Oh, yeah, I did notice. I noticed that you guys were breathing smoke. Yep. Because there's nothing you can do to stop that.

By the way, how do you not appear? Like, I cannot be cold. I cannot be in the cold and not look like it. I agree. I'm always cold, and it would be very stressful. So you were just being totally trying to be. I remember when we were sitting there doing that scene, I think, and I could be wrong, I think Sarah Jessica is already pregnant, but I think no one knew, but I knew.

And I was really worried about her because it was so bloody cold. Yes. And I didn't think she was wearing a warm enough coat because sometimes we would do our fittings. We'd have our whole outfit plan, but we wouldn't put the cold into the equation, right? And then sometimes Pat would have coats in case it was cold, right? And I was like, you know, she's got to get a better coat, but she didn't want anyone to know, so I couldn't make a big fuss. So you were like, you're good? Uh-huh.

Right. But I was like, bring her a coat. Because, you know, when you're acting and they have the coats that they run in with, which you do on the Today Show, too, and you had to go out. Because sometimes it was, like, bloody cold out there. Okay? I remember that. But you could wear a coat. But, like, sometimes they bring an extra coat, right?

That's what it was when you're acting, right? When they all cut, the, our dressers would run in with coats and, like, bundle us up. But then they'd take it back off and you try not to chatter. You're like maybe just not bring the coat at all. Exactly. But then are you going to get sick, right? You don't want to get sick. And then because I knew she was pregnant, I was worried.

Thank you. Thank you. Well, that's what's also funny is that there's a couple of references in here to Sarah Jessica not being maternal. She's so maternal. But Carrie is not her, which is impossible to remember, right? But I also love what they're building in about who women are at different times in their lives. and then your friends start getting married or having children or whatever. How do you deal with that?

What is your relationship? It's very interesting. And it's interesting to look back on because obviously a lot has happened since then in our lives, right? But I think they did it really well. I did too. And there's always that time where someone hands you their baby and you're like, oh, my God, what do I do? I know. I know.

You saw her holding. So was she pregnant then? I think so. I think she was early pregnant. I was just hoping it was going to work out. Yes. Yes. But so much depth, you know, in there.

And I love it. I think that's so real to how life is, right? Like you don't even necessarily know how you feel about it all. Yes. You know? Right. And then suddenly you're thrust into that situation. You're like, okay, how do I feel?

Is this right? Does this feel like a right thing? Exactly. Exactly. I love that. So I had forgotten about this whole thing that I've drugged carry out there to look at men and who would we sleep with? How insane. It's so funny.

It was hilarious. And you were like, she had like zero. I know. And you had a ton. And I had so many. What on earth. Get Bell, Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit.

Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Hi, I'm Bob Pipman, chairman and CEO of IHeartMedia. I also led the team that created MTV. and my co-founders and I are celebrating MTV's 45th anniversary this month. On my podcast, Math and Magic, stories from the Frontiers of Marketing, you'll hear the untold origin story from the people who built MTV from the ground up. I want my MTV!

Those are powerful words, my, something for me that felt like mine and want. What a powerful word. Listen to Math and Magic, stories from the Frontiers of Marketing, on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or whatever you get to. your podcast. What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up y'all? It's your girl, Sam J. And we're the host of everyone watches women's sports, a new podcast from Together and I Heart Women's Sports. Because let's be real. Women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days. So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii.

My first thought is, like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we eating? The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire timeline. In the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports. Naomi Osaka, showing out, she beat. Sabalinka. Shout out to you, Naomi. You get the palm, Naomi.

You get the palm for that. Because we're not just interested in what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's sports on the I-Heart Radio app. Apple Podcasts. you get your podcast. Hey, Portlandia fans.

Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen here. You know us, or rather you know them. Tony and Candice, Nina and Lance, Spike, and yes, the chicken. We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia, AEO, rewatch, our brand new podcast. Each week we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning,

breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process. How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it. And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators, and friends,

including director Jonathan Chryssel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more. Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvised, not just words, but a song, a melody. Well, I thought he was going to write. I thought you were all going to write. write a song.

I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia. Ayo rewatch on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And then, of course, her book editor comes, tells her no, he's not going to fire her. He wants to write a book, which is great. And then there's the affirmation thing, which we already went through. Dr. Cheryl was her name. Oh, was that her name?

I need to find from the writers who based this. Right, but she was perfect. She was perfect because they're kind of. of a little scary. And also that fake cheerleading, scary. I know it. I know it. And there are people out there right now who are like this. You know what I'm saying, don't you?

Yeah, you're like, listen to me. I know. I'm like, look deeper, you guys. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying the people aren't giving something that's useful, but I think that when they get too big, sometimes.

That does happen. There's a little something that's not quite right. Yep. It is interesting. I know what that is. It's like you're right. When you discover somebody kind of on, like I'm a big, like I love a TED Talk. I'm like, let me go one.

Ted Talks are great. Right? 18 minutes, not so long. Yeah. You're not going to be bored. And you can be totally inspired and they seem authentic and real. Yes. And I think they are.

Yes. I think it's what happens later. Yes. That things might go off. Right. Right. Because you adjust for your audience and then you change and then, you know, they need to monetize. And so.

I think they need to monetize. need to monetize is the thing that leads to some wackiness, right? Because how can you monetize if you're not pretending to have all the answers? And I think that anyone who's pretending to have all the answers. Right. And plus nobody likes them in the end anyway. I know. It's a limited thing. It's interesting though, because I feel like especially currently where I think like things are kind of just upside down or whatever and people really need something to follow and, you know, help, like to feel some sense of control or better or whatever. And they maybe are drawn to some people who maybe are, I don't know.

That's interesting. I don't know. Right. When you are lost, it's interesting who you'll follow. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I do think there's probably something, a kernel in everything that's helpful, right? But then it gets to be too, you know, it's like it grows past the point of the original idea.

I don't know. I don't know. You're in this field. you're going to figure it all out for us. One day. Okay, I really want to talk about the Miranda storyline because I also have totally forgotten that this is when Anne shows up when the baby gets baptized, which I'd also forgotten about because she's not even religious, right? And they make so many jokes about it. I know.

And then Carrie was like, look, I don't even know what I believe. And Miranda, I thought a very poignant moment was like when Miranda says to her, I don't know what I believe, but I believe in you. Yeah. And it was like, you're like, oh, okay, then you're the godmother. Yeah. And how about that weird godfather guy? I know. What on earth.

God. Who was he? Oh, my God. I don't know. And we should find out. And also like, are we going to see him again? I mean, I think what's happening and I need to find out for Michael Patrick because Michael Patrick's very Catholic, right?

What I felt was we opened the door. Yes. To Catholicism. And it came in all of the relatives and all of the things, which I'm sure are people in his life. I felt they were so interesting. I have to find out if that's true or not, but that's what I felt, because I do feel like just the whole other thing happens. Yes. And the music. And it's just so beautiful, but also they kept saying they don't believe in it, but it's still so beautiful. I think this is Michael Patrick's feelings. Oh, that's so interesting.

I mean, working with such a genius guy. Yeah. It's pretty amazing. Cool. I mean, because usually, you know, like, I don't know, with any project or anything you work on, sometimes you peel back the layers and there's really nothing there. It's like, we didn't really think it through. It's just like, here it is, due to thing. But this is, like every piece is connected to something. Yes, it's true. And sometimes it's not him, right? Like we have these incredible women, Jenny Bakes, Cindy Schupecker, executive producer writers, who had Jenny had come in first season, Cindy comes second season, And they escalate, you know, they get co-executive producer credit by the end. They all got stolen away with big deals for the networks.

Like they became this like super desirable. Yeah, we were so sad to see them go. But on the other hand, we were so happy for them, right? I didn't know that. That's awesome. Oh, yeah. They all got like poached out from us. Wow.

Yeah, it was really slightly traumatic, but also we're happy for them. Yeah, definitely. That's cool. It was really cool because they had both just started as just regular writers. then they just put more and more of themselves into it. And like all these, the dating stories were the female writer's stories. Oh, they were? Yeah.

They had to be either their stories or someone they knew story or they didn't put it in the show. Why was that just so authentic? They wanted to be real, believable, authentic, yes. And so it's fun to have them on and say, like, well, where did this come from? Where did that come? There's always some fascinating story. By the way, that's cool. I didn't know that either.

No wonder why it all rang so true. Right. They thought everyone thought it was our story. Yeah. That would be insane. You can't act your own story. It's weird. You'd be like self-conscious.

No, it's much easier when it's other people's stories. But with the Catholic thing, I'm sure it's Michael, but then the other things, none of them have babies yet in life, right? She's the first. We were all, yeah. But I mean like even like the writers, no one had a bit. Because we were working all the time, right? So I think it's like sisters, babies, friends babies, things like that, right?

And that's why they're the carry. You don't know what I'm trying to say. And they're kind of like, I don't know if I can be a godmother. What do I do? What do I have to offer? You don't know what I'm saying? I think that was their experience. Oh, that's interesting.

Right, because no one was going down that road yet. No, we were at work all the time. We were, I mean, Cynthia had a baby before we ever started and just handled it amazingly. And then she's about to have another baby and Sarah's about to have her first baby. Got it. Which is why the fifth season ends up being very short. Because we think we can hide the pregnancy, but we cannot. Can't do it.

No. Her shadow, she would be all generally. because she's so tiny, right? Yeah. That there was just this bump, like a basketball was under there, whatever. And they would camouflage it, and then her shadow on the street would have the bump. Like, that's when we were like, oh, the gig is up, man. The gig is up.

I love it. I love it. I know, but we did our best. We did our best. But this is about to happen. I think there's early pregnancy and no one knew is what I think at this point. I know. And I'm just happy that it all worked out.

Oh, my God. And then Samantha's storyline. So this is the craziness with Richard. Which, you know, I had not realized that Richard's days for so long. It's interesting. Well, that storyline was so interesting to me, too, because it showed you that these powerful women like Samantha is with a guy who was a, you know, cheater or whatever. Not good enough for her.

Not good enough for her. No. And still somehow she was desperate for him. and, you know, he, it's just every, anyone who's ever been cheated on in their life knows the feeling. Yeah. And then the apology and then the big present and then you're like, yeah, and I'm an optimist, so maybe, but no.

And deep down you wonder, right, can you live with that playing out in your head? But I was so, because, you know, the idea of is you cheating or is it in my head, you know, that's another, you know, she kept seeing women and then wondering, like, oh, you know, it's horrible. It's horrible. And if anyone, I'm sure, lots of people who are listening have had an experience where, you know, there's been infidelity, it's like, you feel like when you know, you know, but sometimes, you know, a man could be very convincing. No, that wasn't how it happened. That wasn't how it went down. I mean, what are you thinking?

You know, and then you start questioning and you're saying to yourself, oh, well. But anyway, it was so interesting how to your friend, the friend group was like hated him. It was good. Yeah, I thought it was brilliant. And also, it's so weird and interesting to me that they had him who's this super powerful, worldly guy. No, no, no, no. Like Samantha's equal in so many ways, right? And then he's saying he got scared.

Yeah. Which is such a normally, I guess it's not just a female thing. I'm trying to think now, but like, and then he comes up at the baptism and tells Miranda like, oh, I was scared. I mean, really, Richard? I know, and Miranda's like, I don't believe that. I was scared. That's why I cheated. It's like, okay, you got to come up with something better.

Right? I know. I know. It's also, it's not, like, let's say Samantha was like, we have to get married. Like, let's say she suddenly became Charlotte, right? Then you can see that he might have some fear or impulse to run or whatever. But there's none of that. It's bizarre.

I was just like, whoa, I don't remember any of this. And it's kind of interesting. Well, and I think her dead sprint up the stairs to catch him in the act. And if you've ever thought your significant other is cheating and you're like about to jump in there, you know that the fear in the beginning, it's like, oh, my God, everything, this is it. It's happening right now. And for her to run in the door, swing the door open, and he's there clickety clacking on his computer, looking at her like she's crazy.

And so then you're like, well, maybe, was she a little crazy? And then when she leaves the room and you watch that same, you know, housekeeper with the boobs out in the towels looking at her like, like you, you, we all, everyone knows the game. Okay. We know the game. It's the worst game. It's depressing. It's sad. It is.

It's just the pits. Yeah. And, and, you know, in those cases, it's like, it's so hard because your friends know. Yeah. And they try to tell you. but I mean look we've all been in situations where you're like I told her she's mad at me now she doesn't speak to me and they're together so true and then you're like well that's so true I also think it's interesting because it is such a departure for Samantha right it's so interesting

to see Samantha be in that situation which I think is also interesting writing that they were like okay first of all we want Samantha to actually fall in love then we want her to actually get hurt and try to make it work which is kind of impressive for her to even try, right? So I guess it's all about like within that character, what's growth. And in some ways that is growth for her, right? To even try to be hopeful in that situation. But also you feel like he's not worth it.

At least that's how I felt, right? I felt the same. Right, right, right. So we know he's going to go. So it's okay. That's one of the good things about rewatching. It's like, well, we know we're not going to suffer down this too long. Yes, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also it's funny because sometimes like with Steve and Moran, I watched them and I'm like, okay, wait, I know where we get to in the film, right? But I have no idea how we get there. And I know we have Blair Underwood coming. So I'm so confused. Is it so funny? It's so interesting.

But like they keep the threads going so expertly. Yes. But I think that's also how life is, right? Like you can have a connection with someone, but that doesn't mean it's going to work out in whatever way you want it to. Totally. But then also that doesn't necessarily go away either. And it can, you can choose to choose. try to make it work out. Like, it's interesting to me.

I do. I believe. Right? Yeah. I totally agree with you on that. With Miranda, also, she could have totally ended up with Blair's character. I know. That was dreaming. We kind of wanted that. Right? Because he's incredible. We loved him. Right. It's hard. It's interesting

to think about because I'm like, wait, what about Blair? Yeah. And I'm like, oh, but then the Brooklyn Bridge and they kiss and the I don't know. But it's amazing that we have this length of time with these characters. Right. To see them through all the seasons, all the things. All the things. I love it. Me too. What a great episode. I'm so happy I got to watch that one. I do have one more pressing question for you.

Yes. Hoda. Yes. Are you a Charlotte? I am a part Charlotte. Okay. I'm the optimism. I have the optimism of Charlotte. I believe in hope till the end. I have some carry. Love it. Observation. Yes. And analysis? Yes, exactly. And then I have the boss that I think both Miranda and Samantha have, a little boss, a little bit like I'm in charge. Sorry. So I think I have those two traits. Love it.

But of course, any optimist has some Charlotte. Definitely. Definitely. I love that so much. That's a very balanced picture. I know. I have a little bit of each. It's good.

Yeah. But I'm more optimist than anything. I love it. Well, you have a podcast called Joy 101. You have a whole brand called Joy 101. So you've definitely got some Charlotte in there. You got to. Right.

Definitely. Thank you so much for joining us. That was so great. I know. It's really fun. And I'm going to come talk about joy with you. By the way, you're so good at this. Well, thank you.

I mean. That is a very big compliment. That's so great. Thank you so much. You're so easy. Thank you. Hey, Portlandia fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen here.

The Dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form. We're launching Podlandia, A.O. our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together, breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made. And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Chrysler, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.

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