Are You A Charlotte? - GET ON THE LIST with Peyton List... (S3 E15 "Hot Child In The City")

Episode Date: February 16, 2026

Peyton List was just 14 years old when she appeared on Sex and the City. How can you appear on a show when you are too young to watch it?! Plus, wardrobe malfunctions, comic books, and how this episode was not actually a “HOT Child in the City”.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe.

That's your home. That's your husband. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. At a Morehouse college, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King's senior.

It's the true story of protests and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Minnick Lamumba. Listen to the A building on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, is where culture meets the soul.

Honest conversations about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between. Celebrities, thinkers, everyday people, some have answers. Most are still figuring it out. And if you've ever felt like there has to be more of the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me

on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by black people because of what happened in Alabama? This Black History Month, the podcast, Selective Ignorance with Mandy B,

unpacks Black History and Culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations that shake the status quo. The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race. To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? You guys, everyone, thank you for joining us on Are You a Charlotte? Today, we are rewatching Hot Child in the City, which aired In 2000, the year 2000. And we have Peyton List with us who's in the episode and who must have been what, like 13, 14? Yeah. I think I was, I think it was like right around.

I remember it was shooting in the summer. And that was when my birthday fell. So it's somewhere around my birthday. But I think we shot it like before I turned 14 or a day after. Wow. So you're the actual accurate age of the character. That's so unusual. And most all of us were within a year of each other.

And you're there with Kat Dennings, who we love so much. Yeah. Who's a little baby. I know. Just little babies. But at the same time, I think she's also one of those people that I look at. And I'm like, you're completely recognizable from the time you were that young to like how you grew up. Like I, you can so tell how there's some people like that.

Yes. If you saw a picture of me when I was seven, it does not look remotely like the same person. You just get those like features. I look exactly the same. Do you look exactly the same? Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like there's some people that it's just so clear.

Yes. I'm, it's clear. I mean, I'm much older, but you know, I look the same my whole life, I think. Yeah, yeah. And Kat's so specific. Her look is such a specific look. I love to see her on the billboards now for her new show. Yeah. Which is so funny that she's playing Tim Allen's daughter. I played Tim Allen's wife in a movie Shaggy Dog. Oh my God. It's a very small world. And I haven't seen her because she then went on to do, she did this part when you guys were super young, 13, 14. Yeah. And this is in the year 2000. You were all acting, which, you know, let's get into that later. How did this come to be? But then later she goes on to do Two Broke Girls, which is Michael Patrick's other show. Yes, yeah. Which is so nice. And I used to see her. He would have, you know, things, events or dinners or whatever.

And I would see her. And I mean, they worked so hard, but they were so great on that show. Yeah. It was a great show. I know. She and Beth were really, really amazing. Beth Bears. So great.

And I love her so much. And the fact that she is a little child here. Yeah. With yourself. And, I mean, so they are. are, just to refresh everybody, there is Samantha, as we know, is a publicist. And she gets this client who is a 13-year-old girl who's going to have her bat mitzvah. And her dad is super wealthy.

And Samantha is a little bit like, no, I'm not going to do this. And then Kat's character whose name is. She starts name-dropping people. Big time. Like she really is like, well. And then she says something about the money, you know, like a million to, Does she say something like, I don't think we're going to be able to do this party for under a million? Which sounds so crazy.

In the year 2000. Right? Yeah. I know. And Samantha's just like, oh, wow. Okay. And then at a different point in the show, they're all at a restaurant and you guys are there and you send Samantha champagne. Yeah.

Come over. And you're just, you're so, it's so accurate to today also in terms of like at one point. I think I'm, my character is not at the, I'm at therapy with Trey. apparently, but I'm not there. And the girls say like, oh, they're 14 going on 30. Like, 100% you are, but this is how all of them are now. I don't know if you know any 14-year-olds. I don't know. I don't think I know any 14-year-olds. Got it. My daughter's 14. Oh, wow. Okay. All right. So you know what. She's doing great, right? But like, sometimes I look at her friends and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, what are they doing? What are they wearing?

I mean, they're wearing 90s clothes is what they're wearing. But that's so, it's so strange that we're back. I know. I mean, I look around and I'm like, I was certain this would never see the light of day again. Like, we all decided this was a bad idea, right? Collectively, we decided these, these pants will never come back. I know, but you get, well, first of all, my daughter's not really interested in the low-waisted, but she is interested in like the baggy. They're really into the baggy, almost grunge, but they don't really know it's grunge, right? They don't really understand the origins of it. Yeah. It's super interesting. And it hasn't gone full grunge, like to where it was in the early 90s. Yeah. I don't think it will. But wait, let's talk about you.

How did you come to be on the show? What was going on? It was one of those things where a lot of the kids who did, like, children's modeling, also did children's acting because it all kind of led over to, like, working kids kind of thing. There were, of course, kids that only did acting. I mean, most all of the kids that did, like, children's modeling, they would just be like, oh, we'll just go out for this audition, because really what's required of you is following instructions rather than, you know.

Like if we can get some acting out of you, great, but they weren't so picky. But it kind of fell into that category because I was already there doing that off and on. And it was just an audition that was kind of like any other audition. Did you know what the show was? I'm not sure. Like I know once I got it, I know. knew what the show was. But again, that time where I lived, not everybody had HBO. HBO was kind of like this seen as like this luxury thing to have. It wasn't this, oh, you need to have

HBO. Otherwise, you're not going to see any of the relevant shows that are on the air kind of thing. Like it was sopranos and you guys. Right. Like it was six feet under maybe, I think. But you know, it was kind of. Six feet under is coming. Right. It was, it's that time where, you know, people who maybe the households that really cared about, like, great television would, you know, get HBO. But I was aware of it because I was in New York all the time. And I can really remember the billboards because they were everywhere, you know? And it was provocative. Like, it was, it was noticeable. Would this have been like martini glass, like Cosmo Glass? Yes, exactly, with her laptop in the Cosmo Glass. Yes. That was very odd as a, you know, I remember being like,

whoa, we really want to do this, but super brilliant on HBO's part. Eye-catching. I mean, I remember being kid didn't have HBO. You know, didn't know people who watched the show, but I remember those billboards. I remember Penn Station, those pictures being on, you know, the signs and everything. And if you think about advertising now for shows and movies, it's so risque, but back then it wasn't. No, it wasn't. Especially for TV shows.

It was just like people in suits. Yeah. You know, like in a very stilted, posed-looking gallery shoot. Yeah. Gallery shoot. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's interesting. So there you are. You're 13 years old. Did your parents come with you? How did it work? Yeah. It was always usually my mother. And I feel like it's one of those things where I, again, like I don't trust my memory totally. But I do feel like I have this memory of going out to Silver Cup. It was in Queens? It's in Long Island City. Which is part of Queens. So I didn't go. I didn't leave Manhattan mostly. Because that's just not where a lot of. of like the ghosties are casting things were. But I do sort of have a memory of going into a room

and it being a very large room and it just being a very different environment to like a ghosty for children's stuff. And like the high pressure of oh you've got to say lines that you memorized. You know, I was not, I wasn't really like a theater kid. So it was this like, I don't belong here, but I'm going to pretend I do. Do you know what I mean? great job. You did a great job. I just rewatched it and I'm like, oh my God. Oh my God. I think you're fantastic. I feel like you're being really generous. I'm like, wow, I did not understand edit back then. Oh, my God. It doesn't matter. First of all, the way you all look and the way you carry yourselves, you're very believable. It's very believable in a kind of slightly frightening way, but that's the part, you know?

Just how well can we shame people? Isn't it like? I mean, but also like just the whole, like, you know, this is not your fault. This is the part, right? You're entitled Manhattan Girls. Oh, yeah. It's a very real thing. Oh, yeah. And you're all just gorgeous, you know?

I didn't understand. I didn't really understand the kind of girls that that was inspired by until like a few years later when I actually met them. Right. You know what I mean? Because you're running in certain circles and you start to overlap with people and you're like, oh. It's a real thing. It's a real thing. It is.

is a real thing. And like later on, you're like, well, that's what Gossip Girl was sort of based on. You're like, oh, it's the continuation of that. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Yeah. So my thought too, because I know, okay, so this particular season was our season where it was just a big, big season. You know, and I remember that some of these scenes, like when you guys are coming into the party. Yeah. Like, it was a big scene on the street. That's one of the things that's most memorable for me. because I was in New York a lot and like how shocking it was to see like the magnitude of shutting down multiple streets in the middle of Midtown Manhattan.

Like what that took to do and how, as someone who spent a lot of time, New York, I'm going, very inconvenient for people. I would be really annoyed if I had to walk out of my way and you want me to walk an avenue? Like, does that sort of like? And everyone's probably going, ooh, what's that? That's called Crafty? Can I have some of that?

I mean, there's so many things that they think. But, yeah, New Yorkers are like, get out of our way. Get out of our way. Because, of course, like, that's what I would revert into if I wasn't there for that. Would you remember? Because I also remember this season as being particularly long hours. Do you remember that part of it all? Like, we often shot all night, but you guys would have had your, you know, like our requirements because of your age.

Right. And we also were, I mean, they were single, they were kind of single standalone scenes and they were daytime scenes. So it was a little bit more controlled in that way. Right. We would have daytime scenes that we would do in the middle of the night, though. Just FYI. But go ahead. Yes.

Yeah, we're doing it day for night. We're exterior, right? Because that one when you're coming to the party is exterior. It's exterior. You know the restaurant, for instance. But you would, when you're under 18, there are union rules about how long you can work. Yeah, but I don't think I knew what those union rules were. For sure.

But you did. Yeah. And I'm sure they were. I'm sure they were in. place. But it also was, I didn't have a concept of what working hours were. Right. So, you know, your experience of it not knowing anything is just, oh, you're there until you're done. You know, you just show up and you just do the thing. Did you think it was fun? I did think it was fun. Oh, good. But I think a lot of that was also probably tied to being able to

like work with other people your own age. Because so much of that work, you're kind of, you're by yourself with a ton of adults. Right. And while that is very comfortable, maybe, it's just more fun when there's someone that you feel like you can look at and you're like, you know what I'm going through, right? Like, yeah. For sure. You know, you have an understanding.

Yes. Yeah. So that was particularly fun because it was. Were you in school? I think we shot it over the summer. So I think that wasn't a factor. I mean, you were going to school. You weren't one of those kids who never went to school.

I was in a weird in between because there would be those kids who went to PCS that were like in that full-time. New York school where they were constantly pulled out. I was in school in Maryland where I was pulled out once two times a week. So it was a weird arrangement that I had with my school to be able to do that. But that was affected with other work later on a lot more than Sex and City being in the summertime. Right, right, right.

And it just being, you know, something you're just like, I'll never get to do something like this again. Like the novelty of it just being like, what a cool adventure. I think my mother took a lot of pictures that she probably was not supposed to be taking. That's okay. I don't think we controlled it very well back then. We didn't have the, because this is the season that we really, like, in my experience, at least, jumped up a level in terms of popularity, right?

Like, first season, we shot the whole thing before it aired. It was just our little secret. Right. Second season, people kind of knew, but it was kind of niche, right? I mean, that's how I felt. Yeah. I've talked to other actors who were like, oh, no, everyone wanted to be on that show. It was the biggest hit.

It was the coolest show. We didn't necessarily, I didn't feel that way yet. Right. It's how you experienced it and how you sort of were dealing with the influx of popularity and all that stuff. And I mean, what I remember is first season, second season, we still were trying so hard to promote it. Like if anyone wanted to talk to us, we were like, yes, we talked to them for five hours, you know, whatever it was. Like, whatever we had to do. Totally.

Like, get the word out. Whereas third season, it started to really have a life of its own and you didn't have to, like, beg people to talk. talk to us anymore. That's what I remember. No, but I find that super interesting because like there's a number of shows that like maybe found their feet in season two or you feel like they really took off in season three and watching that sort of evolution of when people start to realize it's a lot different than the thing that they felt they were doing initially. Right. And I mean, for us, we did get to evolve as a show too, which was really nice, right? Like we got to change, you know, whether we were talking on camera, whether we had the people

on the street. And, you know, there were things from the beginning that we got to let go. And we got into much more, and this is where you really see it happening, the long story arc, right? Like with Charlotte, especially this is my first time to have a long story arc like this, right? Other than that you knew she wanted to get married, right? But now she actually is married and what does that mean? And there's all these problems and, you know, whatnot. Whereas for Carrie, this is kind of an interesting, this is the season where she's with Aiden, but she cheats with big, right? That's her big through line.

But this is kind of a standalone season for her, which is fascinating. And also for Miranda who gets braces, which I had no memory of, okay? Like, what? Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm in Alec Lamoma. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr.

had both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia at Martin's Almemata, Moore House College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die.

1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop.

What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately. The mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. So keep this secret for so many years.

He's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage. But it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. You're a dangerous person who prays on vulnerable and trusting people. Your creditor, Michael Levin' Good. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do you do in the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation.

Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff, identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore, loss that changes you, purpose when success isn't enough, peace when your mind won't slow down, faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcast.

I'm Bowen-Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast in the lead-up to the Milan-Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boen, hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo.

Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to two guys, Five Rings on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

It's one of those ones where I was watching it and I felt like I was watching it for the first time. You didn't remember any of that stuff? What I do remember, I do not remember my storyline. Not one second. Okay. Not one second. Like I don't.

If you had said to me, did you know, meaning our characters go to therapy? I would have been like, no. What are you talking about? Like I don't know. I think I was so exhausted and like low level overwhelmed. But some of it I'm just like, I don't know what. I don't know if I was in my body. Honestly, I just don't know.

I don't know. Do what I mean? Yeah, well, and sometimes you'll just never have an explanation as to why some stuff doesn't stick. I watch myself in it and it, and it, it seems fine, but I just don't have any memory. I'll tell you what I have a memory of. And I kind of wanted, if I'd had time, I would have researched this. You know how some New York summers are super hot? You literally melt into the sidewalk.

Right. You'd be confused with the sort of tar. That gets soft. Right. And the summer before had been. And we would film in the summer. We would start in February where it was cold. And then we would film all summer pretty much to get, you know, however many 18, 21, whatever it is that we did, 18.

And, you know, by the end it was baking hot, right? Yeah. I believe, and I could be wrong, I believe that they wrote this episode, Hot Child in the City, based on the fact that the summer before was really, really hot. And then so, and we were working, right? So, like, we would just be sweaty, sweaty, sweaty. And our hair, we'd be frizzy. My impression of the show, and I don't know if this was, like, true or not,

because I wasn't watching it consistently then because I just didn't have HBO. But, yeah. Is that, like, there was a lot of location. Like, it doesn't look like a show that was on stage that much. It's true. I mean, that was by design. Okay. And there were sometimes, because our apartments would all be sets, right?

Because we had to have some controllable environments because of the weather and the this and that. also money. It's so expensive to film on the locations. Shutting down streets cost some money. A lot of money. And also this season is the big season we got the Staten Island Ferry. Like we have big, big expensive locations, which is how we would like to roll at all times. Yeah. That's our vibe. But there would be times when we'd be over budget and we would move back inside. And then I remember vividly a few times Sarah Jessica saying,

this is not okay. This is not our show. We need to be on the street. You need to be able to see our shoes. You need to push the cameras back. You're losing the city part. Yes, exactly. And she was so right. But of course, it's always a balance, you know. But then you're also at the mercy of the elements, like scorching summers where, you know,

it's like poor hair and makeup trying to deal with the heat and the sweat. But the thing that I love looking back at it, like, you know, sometimes Sarah's hair has that little level of frizz on it. It's so gorgeous. It's like almost like a halo. over her head, you know what I'm saying? Like, for Charlotte, no one would ever accept that I would have Frisd though. I do have wavy hair in one scene, which I was always really pushing for.

Because I just didn't want to wear that same straight hair all the time. I understand. I would get bored. You know what I mean? I understand from someone with straight hair. Right? I really, I'm so sick of it, you know? And everyone else loves it.

But like, for me, I was like, oh, my God, please, just please let me do something different. So there's a scene, I think, at the beginning. Oh, remember when they say, we say cafeteria was the new. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had forgotten all of the high school references in this. I don't remember that at all. And so I did do the rewatch.

And I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't get any of these references or like, go give the guy your number. And that being so cute in high school. It's so cute. It just lost on me completely. I know. And I feel like Sarah Jessica Parker, man, she was so leaned into the high school. She's so adorable and giggly. Yeah.

Like we very rarely see her. Like, it was really, really enjoyable. And also the other interesting thing about this is it's directed by Michael Spiller. I don't know if you remember this. He was our director. He had been our DP. Oh, really? Okay.

Yeah. Not from the very beginning, but close to the beginning. And I know that he'd wanted to direct and I feel like he might have directed before this. I'm not sure. But what I was struck by watching it, first of all, there are a lot of cool shots. Like when she ends up on the balcony with the guy, which we'll get into in their overhead, you know. And like there are a lot of cool shots. But also, I feel like everyone seemed very.

relaxed. Interesting. I really like that when I'm watching it. I mean, sometimes I can tell that, like, maybe sometimes I can remember times where things weren't relaxed and, you know, the writers and the director, or usually just the writers, wanted us to do something? Do you know what I'm saying? Okay.

And so I'm really, I can see myself trying to execute the idea that they want me to do. There's, like, an extra pressure on that thing that you're trying to achieve. And I can see it in my face, you know, or my voice or whatever. And then sometimes we just seem like relaxed and giggly, which the whole episode, not counting me because I'm at the therapy, but everybody else, so relaxed and giggly. It was so charming. I had this reaction, though, when I was watching, because obviously you're watching it years later. So you're watching it from a different perspective from life, I think. But also coming from, like, New York at the time, now when I watch it, I'm like, you know what, back in New York, it does really stand out as this almost thing that was viewed as very childish to have like a comic.

bookstore for a grown man to be into comics and all the stuff. Whereas now, it's universal. Every age, every guy. And we don't look at it as the guy who lives in his mom's apartment. Well, that's the other thing. It's so now. It's so now that back then we would have, it's like so normal how the friends reacted to. Yeah, we were like, no, absolutely not.

It's such a stark contrast. 100%. But now it's so accurate to now. Like no one moves out from their parents' house. Apparently, this is what I read. I don't really know this age people, but, you know, 25-year-olds or whatever. You know what I mean? Yeah, most guys that you would meet in New York, you know, if anything, they would seem older than they were.

There was this sort of influence of wanting to fit into an adult grown-up world. The suits. The suits. The tech bros or finance bros, we were being calling them. I remember the last time I went back to New York for like a long period time after I've been living in L.A., and I'm like, everyone's wearing a suit. Oh, yeah. This is funny, isn't it? It's really funny. And you're like actually looking at a guy and going,

that's really, it's definitely younger than. Definitely. But he looks a lot more grown up than me. It's such a strange thing. You know what that's even more true? London. Really? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. They dress so well. Like certainly if you go to, you know, like central London, I mean, it's insane and intense. And the suits are so beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. You're just like, whoa.

But it's also like a little hard to, you know, how do you relate to that? I don't know. It's an interesting culture thing. Yeah. But I do feel that way in New York as well. But also sometimes when I go to Beverly Hills, I'm like, wow, there's a lot of dudes and suits here. Yes.

Yeah. You know? I've imagined a place where people feel the need to wear a suit. Right. But it's like in New York back then seeing a guy who's like T-shirt, jeans. Yeah. Especially he's got like surfer hair. Surfer hair.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how you would sort of, I don't know if it was like just culture society, how you would like put him in a more juvenile. Don't take it seriously. For sure. For sure. But clearly, Carrie likes this. Carrie's like, I'm going to do something different. But those were the questions they were asking.

They're like, are you really comfortable dating a guy? And she's like, we're not. Right, and good for her because she has such a good time with him. And it's so cute. But the thing about the heat, the reason that I remember it is because they have that scene on the balcony where they get the hose out. And I remember that it was actually chilly. Oh, of course it was.

Of course it was. This is what I remember. I do not remember anything that I did, but I remember that I was concerned that Sarah Jessica and this guy were going to have to get wet when it was chilly when it was supposed to be hot. Yeah. The silliness. It's just so par for the course, though, isn't it?

So, yeah. If it's supposed to be hot, it's freezing cold. Exactly. And then we did write when we did it, and just like that, we wrote a big snow scene. And then the year we were filming, there was no snow. Of course. You know what I mean? So we had to manufacture all of it.

Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm in a intellect Lamoma. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. had both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale.

In Atlanta, Georgia at Martin's Almermata, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King's senior and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die. In 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role.

in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A building on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze.

Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia. his life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband.

So keep this secret for so many years. He's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage. But it's also the story. of one woman who was done living in the dark. You're a dangerous person who prays unvulnerable and trusting people. Your creditor might go up and good. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What do you do in the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff, identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore, loss that changes you, purpose when success isn't enough, peace when your mind won't slow down, faith when it's complicated.

Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Bowen-Yen. And I'm Matt Rogers.

During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan Cortina-2026 winner Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boin, hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Mad. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie.

Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to two guys, five rings on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So let's talk about, do you have any memories about your fittings? I'm always curious about young people coming into our world, but you were modeling, so you're probably used to a lot of...

And I think that's probably why I don't have a memory of it. Right. It probably resembled to a degree like any other fitting, probably. I genuinely don't have any memory. I remember my wardrobe. Okay. And I remember it was, I can't say it was the first time, but it was definitely like wardrobe malfunctioning happening.

Oh no. Because these clothes are not, these clothes are meant to be seen. They're not meant to be like functional. Yes. Yes. And my top did not want to stay on. Oh, no. And it was just like, I was so used to as a kid, you know, if they're just like,

oh, these jeans don't fit you, right, well, we'll cut the seam through the middle where your rear end is and stick a sock in it. And, like, that's what you're going to wear. We will never see you from the back. Right. So that kind of just wears the scotch tape or just clip it. You're used to that. Right. But with that being live action, I guess you'd say, like, they were double-stiping the top on because.

because the straps were breaking and you're getting in and out of that limo over and over again. And I definitely had a... Oh, no! A moment where I'm like, wow, there's a lot of people here. Oh, no. I think I might have flashed them. I don't know. Oh, my God.

At 13 or 14. Yeah, but you're also just like, I mean... Yeah, you're a little bit self-conscious, but you're also like, well, it's summertime in New York and the tape failed. Well, that's a good attitude. That's a good attitude. Because there's nothing else you can do. I mean, it was either like a sample or... I think it probably was.

Right. Or vintage. I can't remember exactly what you were. Or like maybe it goes down a runway or a catwalk, but it doesn't go in and out of limos 37 times. Real life. Yeah. Real life. Yeah. For sure.

For sure. For sure. So you remember you did a lot of takes? I remember. Yeah. I remember there was a lot of takes for that. But it also just took a while because I think they had to keep like circling the block to do the, however they shot the arrival. Like I think they were shooting huge, huge wide masters and stuff of that.

So we were. That just took a while to research. reset over and over again. When I watched it back, I'm like, you can just see the door just roll up. I know. I think it was just, but I think that's not, feel like, and again, my memory, I feel like that's not how they shot it. Like, they shot more of the, oh, I'm sure. The car coming up and they've got all those cars around. They've got a reset and all that. So, right. I remember that being like a lot of takes and getting that right and having all the young people that were the extras. That were excited to see you. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're not just

dealing with like adult extras, you're also dealing with teenagers and just getting that, just getting that right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, it can be so patience, challenging, you know, like, totally. But that's also where it's sort of ignorance is bliss if you're not used to that world because you're just like, I have no idea how many times we're doing this. If you go, we're going to be doing this for three hours. So like, settle in. If you'd known that going in, you might be like, ugh, but when you don't know it, it's just. No, and also, I mean, the fun is you were together with other young people and you guys can just chat and whatever. Exactly. I'm sure we were pretty annoying at times for some of the PAs, but that's okay.

That's okay. That's all right. That's all right. I mean, you're like, we feel bad, but not really. Yeah. No, why would you feel bad? Yeah. We're just like so chatty and we're just being silly and yeah. Yeah, that's their job. Be annoyed. Just to be annoyed. Yeah. Put up with us, please. Sorry. Okay. Let's talk about the plot. Let's talk about the plot. Okay. So we see Carrie. She wants to go to a leather store to have her shoes fixed, right? Is that right? And then it's the comic book store. Right. Which is so, so how New York is. I was just thinking that it's so New York when you're like, oh, I'm going to, where'd it go? I know. No, I loved that place. Wait, did I imagine that it was, I always happened with me with restaurants and it would just be heartbreaking because

at the restaurants, you have memories and you want to go back there and have that, yeah. I agree. I lived on the Upper West Side for a long time, which of course is not, you know, the hot spot anymore. But every. single time I'd go back if I was gone. It was different. It would be so sad. Oof. So frustrating.

But what can you do? It's ever changing. This is how it is. This is the... Well, and also the places that you're, you feel dependent on like your shoe repair guy. And you're like, what do you mean? He's not here. Totally.

Absolutely. Especially for Carrie's shoe repair. Very, very important. Very, very important. So she goes down. She has a very charming conversation with this guy at this store. I'm like, wow, you're very, um, like I just don't even know if they're, um, like I just don't even know if that would happen now. No.

Right? I mean, it doesn't happen in my life. But like also the ease at wish she has that conversation with a stranger and guy that she's like, he's attractive. I know. I feel like also because it's this tiny store. Right. So it kind of feels safe. But at the same time, yeah, like when you're watching it, you're like, it's totally natural. And you're going, oh, if that were real life with me, it would be like, I'm going to count how many times I'm making eye contact with this person. Would you think that? No, it would be like, what is it? You know what?

Like you're assessing, assessing a safe situation and stuff like that. Right, right. I mean, yeah, it's been a, I can't, I don't, I'm trying to think of the last time that I would have gotten into a whole very, very long conversation with a stranger in a store. I can't think of when it would be. Right. Where there's not a whole lot of people around. Right.

I mean, that's the other adorable kind of thing. It's like, it's like a street level, you know, adorable tiny store with like two 15-year-old boys or whatever who are just like goggling Carrie. Totally. And her adorable outfit. And this is the much-discussed Chanel top that's then she wore later. But in a slightly different color way, I believe that when I was looking, I was like, no, no, that might be the same one.

It's very confusing. But we re-wore this in and just like that. Was that an issue? No, it was a good thing. It was a much-discussed thing. Okay, okay. But the funny thing about it, I kind of recognize it. It's a very specific Chanel with like blobs of color.

Right, a lot of color. And she had worn it backwards in the first show, which is a very serious-deska thing. She loves to things backwards or upside down or whatever. match. She likes that. And so you can see the little Chanel tag. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I just rewatched it, I saw that tag there. And I was like, yeah, because she's wearing it backward. She's so funny. But then, so then she's got Carrie's clothes in storage, right? And they didn't go back and get it out. But Molly Rogers, our costume designer, got a call from a vintage place that she knows downtown. And they said, oh, we have an amazing group of clothes that are.

from Karen Ellison's personal clothes, the model. The red-headed model, beautiful red. You recognize her. I'm sure I would. Very 90s, 2000. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure if I saw a picture. I used to be married to Jack White, not that I should be talking about her personal life.

But just side note. And she, so Molly went down there and at the bottom of this basically suitcase was the Chanel top. Slightly different colors or else maybe faded, I'm unsure. And Molly recognized it, Molly's been our costume designer forever.

So she got it. And then Sir Jessica wore it again on a just like that turned around. So it's just the scoop neck without the tag. Right. And then there's a whole drama. Did she get it out? Is it hers? Where did it come from?

Is it the same one? Is it a different one? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Many conversations. But I love that. You know, I love that, you know, the clothes are interesting enough that you could even have a conversation about it. Well, and I don't think there was anything on television

where a woman was wearing clothes like that. No. It just, it wasn't network. It wasn't, do you know what I mean? It wasn't gone through the sort of all the approval steps that what is acceptable to everyone. Right. It was just someone with creative fashion. We did have a little bit of that.

Like we did have Michael Patrick, I think, we'll admit himself that sometimes he would be, he would be a naysayer. He would say like, no, she wouldn't wear that. And Pat Field would be like, she would. You know, and then it would be a whole power struggle. And because Sarah Jessica was on the side. with Pat usually and really wanted to push the boundaries in a way that she thought was true to that character and true to those women who were living this life and borrowing things. I mean, Candace Sposh. No, is borrowing things, you know, even though, because people say, like, well, how could she afford it? Well, she's not affording all of it. She's borrowing stuff. Right. You may not be seeing her going. Sample sales. Exactly. Sample sales. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm so vividly. Oh, my gosh. What a special place.

But then it was like, are you going to go down there? Because it was a journey. It was a field trip to go. It was. It was way at the tip, way down to the bottom. Yeah. And it was a big place. And you had to work hard to find the good things in the big place.

It wasn't like they were like, hello, here's the Chloe Top you were looking for. No, it was like really like hit a miss. No, yeah. It was, it was, you had to go in with a loose plan that could adapt. But it was like if people are going to like IKEA or I guess like now like a H&M where there's so much stuff. And if you're looking for one thing, you're like, you have to pace yourself, you have to go in caffeinated, you have to be ready. You know what I mean? Definitely, definitely, definitely. You'll just have a meltdown and leave. Definitely.

Definitely. And Molly said she was there so much that people would ask her where the belts were. They thought she worked there. Yeah. But we got incredible, incredible things there. I mean, it was the only way that we could, because we were borrowing stuff by this point in the show, but we had started with a tiny budget, you know, so they just had to be super creative as well. Yeah. Yeah, and you have to be. Yeah, everyone in New York has to be super creative. Okay, so Carrie goes in. She meets this adorable guy with this, like, surfer hair who has a comic store,

which is also really entertaining and funny, but much more niche back then. Like, it was before Marvel was like... That's the funny thing seeing it now. It was so, like, niche, and you're like, oh, wow, if they only knew. Exactly. Exactly. I hope he kept that store going, whoever that guy. And then they, so they go to, on a date, to...

barcode. I feel like barcode is still there. Do you think? Yes, it's still there. Amazing. Yeah. And so obviously not Carrie's normal vibe. But she's having such a good time. It's perfect. It's like what they're, the story they're doing. Absolutely. And when she gets on that scooter in the street, I mean, honestly, I don't remember any of this at all. When she gets on that scooter, I mean, hello, how how did you not fall over? Well, because I know her. I'm not, I'm not, I didn't even think for a second she was going to fall over because I know her. She can do anything in those heels. But the thing that made me laugh, like, think about e-scooters now.

Like, this is so prescient. Oh, totally. Our whole episode is so timely of 2025. Those scooters, I remember, had a real moment, like, everywhere. They was razor. Yeah. The razor scooters, you know, that would fold up and they'd spin into it. Oh, yeah.

My kids went through a big razor phase. They were so popular, I think especially right around that time, too. I know. It's so funny that this guy is. on a scooter and has a comic book store. He's really ahead of his time, you know? At the time, we all... How did we not realize?

Yeah, we all criticize him, but he was right on the pulse. Right on the pulse of things to come. So she adorably goes on a day with him and goes scootering. And then he says, do you want to come over to my impressive apartment with the view? Little does she know. They go to like an unbelievable... You don't see the whole apartment. Okay, you mostly see the balcony.

but they've basically got like a view of everything. Right. Like it's very intense. And she says up east side, but I feel like you can see the river. Like I feel like it's on the East River. But it looks like an old building. I thought in my head I'm like it's a view of the park, but it's where you can see. I don't know.

I don't know. I feel like over across the water is Brooklyn. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But I also, I believe you because in my head I could have just dropped in whatever I thought. Of course. Your own assumption. Yeah.

Well, because the way the balcony looks, it looks like the traditional. buildings that would be over on fifth. Right. Yeah. But I don't know if it is. I don't know if it is. And I wasn't there, obviously, physically. So I have no idea.

But so they go and she's wondering, you know, how he has this incredible apartment, which is so adorable. And then we find out that it is because he lives with his mom. And she's adorable. She's so cute. She's so cute. So cute. And she wants to give them lemonade and whatnot, which is also really funny and weird.

And he's really accepting of it all, which is, like, how old is he, I want to know? How old is the character? Yeah. Do we ever say? I don't think we do. I think he's definitely at least mid-30s, right? He's got to be, right? It's so interesting how...

I feel like the age was referenced multiple times where... Was it? Yeah, because I think of, because of the Miranda character's storyline about the braces and everything, where she's... I was surprised. how many times that she's like, there's the 13-year-olds and we're 34, 35, or whatever it was, that I don't remember that being such a reference before. It was a reference because back at this time, we were considered old.

Right. Which is really laugh out loud, funny. I mean, we're 33 and we're talking about like how we're so old. That's what sort of like society conditioned to like where to place that age. Yeah, no, we weren't wrong. We weren't wrong. That was very true for us back then. Yeah.

But that's partly why we talk about it so much. You're like now, I don't think anyone frowns on anybody getting braces at any age. No, and it's also a lot more common. More common, right? Yeah. Like, tremendously more common. Actually, when I see adults with braces, I'm like, you don't have a fear of commitment. You know, like, I'm just going good for you. Like, I feel like if someone to me said, you need braces now, I'd be like,

I just don't know. Like, I think I'm just going to just stick with this. Yeah, I just don't know. Like, that seems like a lot of commitment. Like when you were teenagers, they just did it. My daughter has braces. It's a lot of commitment. I love her orthodontist.

Thank goodness. We look forward to seeing Dr. Esther. But it is a lot of commitment. Yeah. And I feel like with adults that do it. Oh, yeah. You're making some time for your teeth. Yeah.

And you're like, that's self-love. That's like good for you. Definitely. I agree. I agree. Totally. I agree totally. So Carrie does discuss this young man or whatever.

I don't know if he's younger. I mean, I did not feel like he was our age though when I was watching it. I felt like maybe he was late 20s. I was younger, yeah. He just seems younger. I mean, but obviously he's younger. He's living with his mom. I feel like they would have made references to his age being younger.

Okay. Like if they were discussing, like you're dating a guy who's, they're like, yeah, but he's younger. Right. But I feel like it was the sort of comparison of like. It's a good point. Yeah, we don't really say that. Yeah. We don't really say that.

But he does own his own shop, right? So it's not like he's a total whatever. You know what I mean? You guys, this is so much fun that we are going to have to have a part two. So join us later in the week on RU.S. Charlotte. In the middle of the night, Soskiya awoke in a. Hayes. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask

came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. gone. America is in crisis. At a Morehouse college, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King's senior. It's the true story of protests and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Minnick Lamouba. Listen to the A-building on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by black people because of what happened in Alabama?

This Black History Month, the podcast Selective Ignorance with Mandy B, unpacked black history and culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations that shake the status quo. The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race. To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the I. I heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, is where culture meets the soul. Honest conversations about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between. Celebrities, thinkers, everyday people, some have answers.

Most are still figuring it out. And if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on my IHeart Radio app, podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.