Are You A Charlotte? - Good as Gold with Judy Gold... (S5 E4 "Cover Girl")

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

Comedian Judy Gold is fired up about "Cover Girl". The topics are hot as Kristin and Judy get very honest about the highs and lows in this episode.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Oh, no. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast, Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers.

The show's famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller, Danny McBride, Riz Ahmed, and Mary Steenberg. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nick Tutorough. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, The Longest Yard, or Spike Lease Black Klansman. And on my new podcast, delivering happiness with Nick Tatoro, I deliver pizza to a new guest. I've shared a slice with everyone from Seth Rollins. What are you doing, my belt?

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And listen now. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? I'm so glad that you can join us. You guys, Judy Gold is here, which is super exciting. She is in episode 504. It's called Cover Girl, and it aired August 11, 2002. It's written by Michael Patrick King and Judy Toll and directed by John David Coles. And you know, we can't talk about this episode without talking about my friend Judy Toll.

I know. Who was one of my closest friends, you know, she died of melanoma. She was, I still, I'm very close with her family. I still see her mother and her sisters like my little sister and her brother. I'm very close with them. But when I rewatched the episode with my partner, who, Elisa, who never met Judy, knows Joanne and Gary and Sandy the mother and everything.

She was laughing so hard. And it was totally the Judy jokes. And I was like, that's Judy, that's Judy. But I have such memories of doing that episode and also calling her. when I went on the audition, I remember standing and in the street in New York and saying, okay, did it like this and then I said this like this. And she's like, perfect, perfect, perfect. Oh, cute.

But it brought back so many memories. And you know, the one thing, I know that you want to talk. No, no, go. Keep going. But the one thing that hit me was, you know, the Weight Watchers thing, because we used to do Weight Watchers. Oh, you actually did. Yes. That card. The card, I remember that I was like, oh my God, I forgot about that fucking card where they would write your weight down. We used to joke about that all the time and how humiliating the weighing in was.

Awful. Awful. I've never been to Weight Watchers and I was rewatching. I was like, wow, is this accurate? This is crazy. They would weigh you and like in a line like this, like how it was in the show? Wow. Yes.

And, you know, you'd have this card. they put the sticker on. And it was just like, it was like the card of shame. Oh. You know? Like, oh, I did really well that week. And this week I did really shitty.

Oh, no. Yeah. Gosh. And then there were, you know, there were the showoffy people who were like, I'm a lifetime member. Oh my God. Oh, my God.

I wonder if this is still true today at Weight Watchers. Like, has it changed? Has it evolved? Yeah, because it's now, it's now points. and they do it online. Oh. Yeah, it's all different.

Wow. But, you know, an old friend of mine's mother had the first Weight Watchers meeting in her house and Long Island. Wow. Yes. When was this? In the basement. Oh, 60s, 70. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. That's a long time for Weight Watchers. I know. Oh, my gosh. Let me go back to Judy Toll for a second. Weren't she and Michael Patrick old friends? Yes. And I couldn't remember the details like, did they do stand-up? How did she, how did they connect? Okay. Well, can I tell you about my connection and then her connection?

Yes, yes, yes. So I met Michael. We all worked at the improv on 44th between 9th and 10th. And he was in a group. It was him and this woman who, what was her name? Oh, God, King and, oh, shit. I forgot. her name, but they would do, they would do skits together. And Michael was straight. That's hysterical. I know. And we were all like, Michael, seriously, but whatever. And he said he was dating. It was ridiculous. But it's the 80s, you know. The 80s, no way. Yes. And so we would, I remember my fondest memories of Michael at the improv, they had a door. outside that was always locked. I think it was like a fire escape door,

and it was right next to the stage. And, you know, at late at night, we would just fool around. He would go on the back mic and start saying shit lives on stage. And then they'd go outside and bang on the door. I mean, it was just, he was so funny. But I don't know, Kristen,

if you remember, I had a spit curl for a very long time in the 80s. I do not remember. Yes. And I used to do this bit called, It's Judy's show! Like I would have a spit curl and I said this. The reason I have it is because if I had my own show in the 60s,

I'd open the show sliding down a big spit curl singing, It's Judy's shot! And Michael wrote that. Michael wrote that. Wow. And it became my signature bit. So Michael gets a job on Murphy Brown. And we're all like, oh, my God, Michael's in L.A.'s.

You know, he said, and he started doing uncavay, which is not stand-up, but more storytelling. And that's where he met Judy Toll. And they were all in this big uncabre group that I wanted to be a part of so much. And they're like, you tell jokes. I'm like, I tell stories. I tell stories, too. Oh, whatever. Oh, no.

Yeah. So that's how they all became friends. And then was Judy writing also for TV at that point? Yes. She was, her and Monica Rosenthal, Phil Rosenthal's wife, were a team. They were doing so many, they were doing like shows together. And she was doing the uncab. And she was like brilliant at it. And she was writing.

She wrote on Boy Meets World. She was writing on a bunch of shows. And Kristen, when I told such, so funny and raw and honest. And like when you go in that episode in the bookstore, you see one of the books they focus on is a book by Judy Trank. She ended up marrying a guy named Trank. And it says, me and my needs. And that was the name of the pilot that she wrote.

about her life. But she also wrote a movie with Wendy Goldman. What the hell? I'm looking it up. I'm looking at up. Okay. What movie? Film writer.

Boy Meets World. All right. The Gina Davis Show. Oh, she co-wrote the film Casual Sex in 1988. Wow. And it was starred Leah Thompson. Wow. Victoria Jackson, Andrew Dice Clay.

And it originated. as a groundlings. They were in the groundlings. Oh, yeah, with Lisa Kudjo, right? Yes, yes. And so her and Wendy Goldman wrote that. But yeah, so that was like a big, big, that was like her, yeah.

Yeah, wow. I'm so sad that she got melanoma. That's horrible, horrible. You know, she was such a hypochondriac. Like, and she had a whole bit in her act about like, whenever I get a headache, I think, and the audience would yell, brain tumor. Right.

Wow. But I have to tell you, her sense of humor was there till the very end. When she lost her hair and she was wearing a wig, she would take the wig and sort of move it forward and be like, good does I make. How do you know this morning? And then when she got her diagnosis, she used to call us and go. go, Judy told to stage four, Judy told to stage four. And we would just laugh and laugh.

And, you know, it was just so sad because every, she had a stomach ache, you know, bowel cancer. Like everything was like she would go to the end degree. And, and yeah, she had a thing on her back. And she met this guy, Richard Trank, and they were hiking. And he said, what's that thing? on your back and it was a melanoma. She got it treated. And then it came back and it was just terrible.

Awful. Just terrible. But she was, I can't even tell you. And she's all over that episode. I mean, she really is. Like it's such a very, very interesting episode anyway, right? It's like deep. It has a lot going on.

And I had 100% forgotten about it. Like this is one where I'm watching and I literally don't know what's going to happen. I had forgotten about the whole cover shoot for the Carrie book, which is getting very meta. We're in a very meta place at this point where, you know, they want her to pose basically naked. And she's like, no, no, no, no, no. But you remember, we've already done the cosmopolitan advertising where Sarah Jessica is naked in the cosmopolitan glass as Carrie. And Candice had done, you know, like the semi-nude cover of her book. Like, it's all very, it's a lot. And it's interesting. And it's interesting to see Carrie saying, no, no, no, I used to dress like that, but not anymore,

she says to Samantha. I think we should change at this point in time, meaning like age, which is really interesting. I don't remember that at all. And it seems kind of very uncary-like in a way. Yeah, it's also that theme of. Judgment. Body and judgment. I mean, it goes with the Miranda Weight Watchers thing. The whole thing is about body image. Yep. And, you know, appropriate behavior. Yes. You know, like what you're supposed to, how you're supposed to behave.

Right. You know, what you're supposed to reveal. Right. And I just, I love it. And, you know, I was watching it with Elisa and she's like, the writing is so incredible. It's so good. Yeah.

And I don't see, she said I don't see that anymore. You know, it's just tied up. Everything ties up at the end. Not in a way that it's not, you don't think there's more to talk about. Right. But just that, you know, you get to a point where, okay, okay, we're dealing with this issue. Right, right. It's not over.

No. But, yeah, it's all about body image. Super interesting. But I also felt it was so pressing in so many ways. Like at one point, Carrie mentions Amazon. She's on the computer. She's like Amazon. Right.

And I'm like, oh, little do we know. Right, right, right. And then the thing about judgment that they're talking about and when she does her little, you know, I wonder section, it really made me think about social media and the way that now everyone judges immediately and you have a voice for it. All of that hadn't really happened yet. Yes, it happened. Yeah. It's a human thing to judge, right? But we were all kind of judging like in real time and talking to each other or holding in those judgments, I guess.

And now all the judgments are coming out. out like immediately, right? Right. Which is super interesting to think about. But I felt watching it as I do, I feel this way in general when I watch the show, but sometimes it's one of those ones like this particular episode. It shouts out at you about how on the pulse they were of kind of things that were happening in our culture.

A hundred percent. And as you talk about the social media, every, I remember watching, is it Samantha's on the phone with Carrie and she's walking down the street and I'm looking at the background and she's got a phone but no one else has a phone

amazing and there's a guy behind her with a camera like a real camera and you know that whole idea of you know like even Weight Watchers it isn't a quick fix

right you know it's things were more thought out. You know, we had time to, to absorb and process. And there's no absorbing a process. And that's why I think that the writing is so great because you really go on the journey and go, yeah, they thought it through and resolved it at the end, you know? Yeah. But there's just so many amazing themes like that whole Miranda in bed.

with that guy. Oh my God. She brought this up. I just saw sin and she brought this up, but I hadn't remembered it. The whole glazed donut, um, I had fully forgotten this and I was like, wow. Um,

we were really ahead of her time in a kind of a silly way. 100%. I know, but I also really, really like that actor Craig Gas as Tom big boned, which is so, I loved him. He's just good because he's got like,

like a depth and a kind of a he's pretty simple for a guest star right like he he doesn't he's not trying to be showy he's just very real he's also like I'm big he's attractive and he's so self-aware

like you don't see guys that are self-aware like that no I'm sure they exist and self-effacing yeah totally we just don't see that portrayed very often which was interesting yeah because it's it's not considered masculine. Right, right, right. And, and I mean, which is also, you foresee Miranda being a lesbian, you know, she's with a guy who's, you know, she's with a guy who's, you know, she's with a guy

who's like, is like a woman a little bit, you know, and he gets up, like when he gets up and covers himself in that sheet, like, you're not going to see my body. I mean, it's so good. We all relate so much. Yes. I don't think guys do. I mean, maybe they don't, but I certainly did, right? And it's interesting to see it. You know, it's interesting to see it. And also before they get into bed, like when they're at the restaurant,

because they meet through Weight Watchers, I'm sure everyone listening knows, but just to recap, they meet through Weight Watchers. They have like a funny kind of self-effacing, you know, trading of, you know, I'm big boned. And she's like, I'm baby weight. It's very cute. And I was wondering, because she says, I'm baby weight,

but he never says, are you with someone? Which is kind of interesting. Like I don't know when they, I guess that's off camera that they get over that part. And then they go out to eat and they bond over their desire for donuts. Exactly, for crispy cream. And they make a lot of jokes about the points in Weight Watchers. And then he says at the end, it's sweet because I felt like, I mean, you know, back then, like the things that were going through my head were all the crazy diets that we'd all done. Like when we go to the bookshop and I say, you should get the zone.

Like I did the zone hardcore and I fainted. And I was like, did they use my fainting? Yes. I fainted multiple times, multiple times. I fainted one time in a parking lot. Yeah. And I'm sure I told them. Yes way, yes way.

And everyone who was advising me about it, they were like, that's fine. They were so like that. That TV industry was so like, here, take Fenn Fem. Here, take this. Take that. Oh, yeah. I just escaped Fenn Fenn Fenn Fenn like by a sliver. but I remember Cynthia and I at the same time and it was nothing anyone told us to do it was self-policing it was us basically for me I don't want to speak for Cynthia it was me trying to be able to make Pat field happy with my weight which was very challenging and be when we would go to do the photo shoots they would just have the samples and people still ask me about this today they don't understand the whole like sample thing but what it is is you know I'm sure you know when you go to a photo shoot they have

have the samples because the samples are what the designers will send for free. So they don't have to buy all the clothes, right? But the designers only have a few of the samples. And they make the samples in like model size for some reason based on history or whatever, right? So that is why all the actresses are trying to fit into the size to model size, which is very hard to do, obviously. So it's not even like anyone had to say to us, you know, you guys need to lose weight. We're self-policing ourselves because we want to have a good.

good time at the photo shoots and have good clothes to wear and not be like, I can't get the pants on. Right. I can't fit. And it's so humiliating. It's so humiliating. And it would happen over and over and over to me to where I just took a bag with clothes. But you weren't even overweight. No.

No. No. It's so crazy. It's so crazy. But I had hips. And back when we started, you know, the end of the 90s, all the models were just straight. Yes, yes. Straight.

So there was really no way I could get my. body to fit in. And if I did get my hips to fit in, then the waist would be massive, right? Right, right, right. So it was just like, oh, a nightmare. So I would carry this bag with, like, a black pair of pants that fed and maybe a pair of jeans that fit because there might be absolutely nothing at the photo shoot, which was so hard. So I did a lot of dieting. And there was a time at work where Cynthia was doing, ooh, I want to say Atkins, and I was doing the zone. And when I get to work in the morning on her chair would be a massive plate of bacon. And then next to it would be a massive bag of celery that she would have brought.

And she would eat those two things all day long. Now, was this healthy? No. No. No, no. But this is what we did for like a long time. And that's why people love that Atkins diet. They're like, I can eat so much protein and bacon and fat with fat and fat.

But it's not good. for you. It's not good for you. And I was doing the zone, which was a little more balanced, but it was still just like, oh, so much thinking. You know, you had to like, everything was, it was not fun. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode eight before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell, Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney plus from $94 a month.

Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. On Solita, we share the messy stories of traveling alone as a woman. Your duolingo is not going to come back to you

when a man is inside of you. Oh, no. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking, anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here.

I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is, and not the lies you're sold about it. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip. I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport.

And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show's famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on.

We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller. The definition of what is. a movie has kind of changed anywhere too, right? What do you think it is now? It's images and words being spoken, captured by some sort of technology. Danny McBride. He loves over. Oh, that's fantastic.

And you make it on, you make your own. That's great. I call him Tarot Reed. It's a good name. They're all named after cast members of American Pie. Yeah. I call, I don't, I never looked up if she was in this, but I call him Leachie Sobiesky. Yeah.

I don't think she was. It was an American pie, but I still liked that. Haven't looked it up. She was prominent around the same time. Then Mary Steenberg. Why are you guys talking to me, look? I'm worried. Why are you talking so down to me that you think I don't understand your little play game?

I just really, I get it. I'm trying to set you up for success here. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nick Titoro. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, the longest yard, or Spike Lee. Black Klansman. But I'm also from Queens, which means I know pizza. And on my new podcast, delivering happiness with Nick Toto, I deliver pizza from Prince Street Pizza to a new guest. Are you delivering pizza now? Then we sit down for a real conversation. I've shared a slice

with everyone from Seth Rollins. What are you doing my belt? To Alex Rodriguez. Just to let you people know, we're talking to one of the goats here. To Bill Burke. I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am. And now we even have more great. great guests coming up, including the great John Totoro. It's called Happiness, delivering happiness. Mariano Rivera. Thank you. Oh my God.

And many, many more. Open your free high, hard radio app. Search Delivering Happiness with Nick Totoro. And listen now. Okay, this is my Hyundai Hot Take for the episode called Cover Girl. And I'm going to go with the end of the show when Carrie is getting photographed for her book cover, thus the Cover Girl. And I love it because it's, there's been so.

much conversation about what she will or won't wear for her cover, which is so meta, because at this point in time, we're all having to go to photo shoots for the show. They're trying to get us to wear basically nothing. Sir Jessica has already posed as Carrie for the show in the martini glass, you know, wearing nothing. And she, Carrie doesn't want to be on her book cover wearing nothing. So she ends up wearing this jacket in the end with heel. she looks beautiful and Samantha is at the photo shoot being very supportive of her and the camera pans out and it's a beautiful kind of meta shot and I feel like also we love that shot because I think we feel so supportive of Carrie in terms of like her success like you're so invested in Carrie all the

fans who watch the show so invested and you're kind of getting to see behind the scenes and the crossover between like Sarah Jessica and Carrie is really interesting in that context. So that's going to be my Hyundai hot take. Celebrating iconic moments, bold moves, an unforgettable style just like Hyundai. The scene in the bookstore, first of all, the woman who's crying is so funny.

Oh my God, so funny. Yeah, I can't tell which name she is on my little list, but like those bookstore ladies, I had forgotten about that scene is so great. Yeah, that is so Judy. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, let's just tell her.

listeners, just in case you guys don't remember, Charlotte. So all four women go, you know, Carrie, Samantha, Miranda, Charlotte, go to the bookstore. Barnes & Noble, I think, right? Yes, and Union Square. Exactly. One we've been to so many times. And we split up. So Miranda and Charlotte go off and I'm going to the self-help section. She's going to the diet section. Carrie is looking at covers because she's getting ready to do the cover for her book that Amy Sadaris and Molly Shannon have previously, you know, pitched her on. They're the editors or whatever, which is also really funny and they're great. Oh my God.

They're so great. So great. So great. So great. So she's looking at other covers to kind of get her mind around what she wants because they want her to basically pose naked on the cover. Right. She doesn't want to do it. So go ahead. So when we're in Barnes & Noble.

And so we're in the Barnes & Noble. And I remember, you know, it's full of extras. The whole, the place is closed. down and it's full of extras. I don't know what time we shot it. It was probably late. Yeah, I think it was at night. And so you can't see daylight at all. No. No. It was at night. It was after it was close. Right. And I remember one of the extras was like said to me, do you know which section I would find and she and I'm like, I don't work here. Okay. I don't work here. Hey, you're an extra. Oh my God. Yeah. Why are you shopping for books?

But I mean, I do remember we were there for a long time. And I do remember myself shopping for books. And we had a certain person on our crew. I'm not going to say their name. And I thought they needed some self-help books. So when I was in the self-help group, I was like pulling out books like, Right, right, right. Look at this one.

That's hilarious. But what, tell me previously, I'm surprised you hadn't been on our show before this. I know. Yeah. What was the, what do you remember about auditioning or calling Michael or whatever? How did it work? Well, we audition in person. Got it.

Michael was there at the table. You know, like people don't realize because we don't audition like that anymore. No. But I felt really confident because I knew Judy wrote it. And I was like, what do I do? And she's like, just be yourself and just going, yeah. Yeah. And I just remember going in.

It's like, I don't know how you feel about this. But like when you walk in a room to audition and you know, intimately know one of the people behind the desk. Is it a gift or a curse? You know, like I don't... I think it's good. I think it's good. I think so.

I mean, I haven't had to do it in a while either because life is totally different now. But for me, I think that I was really bad at auditioning, like really bad. So any comfort at all was positive. Do you know what I mean? Right. Like, yes, it is a little weird, right? Because like there's people you don't know who are there and also people you do know, right? But you knew Michael too.

So I mean. Well, I knew Michael really well. And so and then he's in this position of power and I'm the not in the position of power. And it's just a weird dynamic. But anyway. That's true. That's true. Yeah.

I went in and then, you know, you just want to be like, just tell me now. Just tell me. And you have to wait and wait and wait. That's annoying. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I just remember going in the room. He's there.

very friendly, professional, and, you know, it was, but it doesn't happen anymore. I know. You go on, you have to now go on tape. Yeah. It is so horrible. Is it? Because I, I hate going on tape. I hate.

Well, let me ask you this, though. Right. Do you hate doing like a self-tape at home where you're in charge? You do. Yes. Okay, you don't, because I like being in charge. I think because I'm a stand-up comic and I go in and I don't know what I'm I think I'm more emotionally prepared for like for I love being in a room I think like being in a room and and also this is the other thing about self-tapping you'll do it a hundred times until you liked it yeah and then but when you go in a room they will direct you yeah so you get to show them I can take direction. Definitely.

You know? And so I think because of, I think probably live performers prefer a room. Yeah. Well, you can feel the room. You can feel the room. Yeah, I can totally feel the room. That's true. That's true. I think for me, the thing that's weird, and I'm not, it's not like I self-tape a lot. I don't. But I know people do. I feel like the thing is like more private, which is nice, but yes, you're not getting the direction. And you're not getting that kind of like creative vibe from that feeling like oh i'd like to work with this person right you because you do kind of need to feel that and i do remember when we were casting and just like that we had to do it on zoom and it was so hard because you're trying to chat with people over zoom it's crazy it is it is

that was awkward because i felt like i just felt like all of the actors were so nervous on Zoom, you know? Yeah. And it's like, where's that connection? You can't really read, I don't know. No, it's weird. It's weird. Which is probably why you love doing this show in person. I do love doing this. There's no one else here. So I do feel like we're in charge, which is nice. You know what I mean? But on the Zoom, like I remember with Nicole, she was on a Zoom and I feel like there were 10 other people there. You know what I mean? Like our executive producers are casting everywhere. I was like, we can't talk to her like this. It's crazy. But I mean, you make it work.

You make it work. Those were weird times, obviously. Yeah. But it's so, yeah. Yeah. The industry has changed. It is. It has.

Can I ask you really quickly before we talk more about the show? I wanted to ask you about Mindy Kaling's show. Are you on there? What is it like? Yes. How is it? Oh my God. Kristen, it's like a dream comes true.

You know what it's like. You know you work and work and work and there's ebbs and flows. Yeah. And, you know, I'm, look. My whole career has been like, well, you're a specific type, Judy. Oh, Lord. Oh, Lord. You know, because I'm tall and I'm a little loud. But I'm not.

I can act. You can totally act. You can. Everyone know. Judy Gold can act. But you people think you are your comedy act. Sure. It's like, no.

So, anyway, I remember I auditioned. I sent in a tape. And then I didn't hear anything. and then I went to L.A. to shoot something else, and I came back, and they're like, you have a callback. And I was on Zoom. It was on Zoom. And then I got cast. And, you know, you read these pilots. I mean, I don't get a lot. I'm not someone who's constantly getting asked to audition for stuff because you're a specific type. Oh, no. So I read it. And I was like, oh, my God. God, the writing is so good. Cool.

I got it and I get on set and I'm with Victor Garber. Oh, my God. Yes, I play opposite Victor Garber. We love Victor. Tell him hi. I will. And it's really about, you know,

these young kids starting out. Right. Their first jobs in New York City. Right. And the old guard, I'm part of the old guard. Cool. And I play Paula Miller. And she is,

the longtime producer of the show that is hosted by Victor Garber. Okay. The West Dryden show. Okay. And in the 80s, they were married. They're both gay. They're both gay. Oh, interesting.

And they were married because he couldn't get in the anchor chair if they knew he was gay. And I couldn't be a producer if I was like an out Lesbo. So we got married and divorced. And we've been together for many, many years. it's just so fun. And the acting and the writing and Mindy Kaylee. And I was on. This was the greatest thing.

Because you know how like you think you're a piece of shit all the time in this business? Okay. Well, you don't, but I do. Okay. So I was on a table read. It was Zoom table read. And she was on. And she's like, oh my God, Judy, we're so lucky to have you.

You're such a comedy icon. I'm like, oh my God, like you just don't know. Like you don't know. That's nice. And that's true. You are. I'm so glad that Mindy appreciates you. Yay.

I'm going to watch this show now. Now I'm going to have to catch up. I love Victor. Victor was on and just like that with us. Which is super exciting. Sometimes we kept in there a very long time. Yes, yes. We challenged for Victor's moods.

Yeah. But I love him so much. He's so great. He's so much. I mean, we know him forever. You know what? Yeah. Like, you know, I love it when people in the larger group, like, get to be together in different ways.

Right, right. It's fun over time. I love that so much. Yay, yay. Now I'm going to watch that show for sure. And they, wait, also Larry David's show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you do on there?

So it was just done on Friday. It's the fourth episode. Okay. And so he, you know, it's produced by the Obama. You know what's about American history. In the American history told through the eyes of Larry David. Right. And so I play Jonah Salk, who found the, you know, vaccine for.

The polio vaccine. Oh, my God. So he plays Jonah Salk's mother, and I played the neighbor, Evelyn. Wow. He's Dora, and we're both putting up, we're in Queens. It's the 50s, and we're putting up our laundry. Oh, my God. He's just bragging.

And I remember he had a bit about this in his act, like about Jonah assault's mother. So it was like, it was like an extension of his comedy. And he's like, did I tell you my son, blah, blah. And I'm like, yes, you told you. And it's this back and forth. And then it's really funny.

And then the neighbor on the other side starts screaming about vaccines and they cause this. And it's Bobby Kennedy. It's a guy playing Bobby Kennedy. And they take him away. They

come and take them away, like two guys in white suits. And it's such, you know, it's such a you to. Oh my gosh. And it's so it's really. Wow. It's, yeah. It's a very, I didn't know. Yes. Yes. And it's, it's so funny. Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit.

Visit bell.com for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show is famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes

and understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stillard. The definition of what is a movie has kind of changed anywhere too, right? What do you think it is now? It's images and words being spoken, captured by some sort of technology. Danny McBride. He loves Boba. Oh, that's fantastic.

And you make it on, you make your own. That's great. I call him tarot read. It's a good name. They're all named after cast members of American Pie. Yeah. I call, I don't, I never looked up if she was in this, but I call him Leachie Sobieski. Yeah, I don't think she was an American Pie, but I still like that.

Haven't looked it up. She was prominent around the same time. Yeah. Then Mary Steenbergin. Why are you guys talking to me? I'm worried. Did you understand the movie? So down to me that you think I don't understand your little play, play game.

I just really. I get it. trying to set you up for success here. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Solita, we share the messy stories of traveling alone as a woman. Your duolingo is not going to come back to you when a man is inside of you. Oh, no. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first.

I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is, and not the lies you're sold about it. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book you. your first trip. I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nick Tuturo. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, the longest yard,

or Spike Lease Black Klansman. But I'm also from Queens, which means I know pizza. And on my new podcast delivering happiness with Nick Totoro, I deliver pizza from Prince Street pizza to a new guest. Are you delivering pizza now? Then we sit down for a real conversation. I've shared a slice with everyone from Seth Rollins. What are you doing, my belt? To Alex Rodriguez. Just to let you people know, we're talking to one of the goats here. To Bill Burr.

I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am. And now, we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Titoro. It's called Happiness, Delivering Happiness. Mariano Rivera. Oh, my God. And many, many more. Open your free High Heart Radio app. Search Delivering Happiness with Nick Tutro.

And listen now. let's go back to the show. That was fun. I can't wait to watch your new things. I'm very excited. Very excited. Okay. Now, let's go to Carrie for a second. So we have this super, super meta storyline for Carrie, where Carrie, so Carrie has a column in the show, just like Candice Bushnell had in the 80s and 90s in New York. And then Candace, they compile her columns into a book. Same way they suggest to compile Carrie's into a book. They compile Candice's into a book. That book gets optioned by Darren and then by HBO and made into our show, Sex and the City, where she's also a columnist, like we're following along the course of Candace's life. Really interestingly, and I honestly don't think we ever thought we would do this.

I think that in the beginning, we didn't realize, like, the potential for us to, you know, like do a side version of Candace's actual life, I guess, though I think we're so grounded in what Carrie has become that it's kind of different. But it's funny. And I like how, and then Mala Shannon and Amy Siddaris's characters show up. And, you know, they're, they're, you know, young female editors. And they're like, sex sells, you know, when they're trying to show her the idea for her book cover, which would be, you know, her naked with like the words. Oh, my God.

It's so funny. Right. It's so funny. It's really good. And so Jessica, sorry, Carrie is like, no. And they're like, what? What? And then she's like, well, I'm not.

Yeah, I put on clothes before I leave my house. Right. And I'm like, oh, I remember when she did the, you know, when she did the cosmopolitan thing. And I thought it was great. But I remember there was some conversation. I don't remember who really started it. But someone was like, oh, are they just using your body to sell the show? And she was kind of like, oh, I don't know.

I didn't think of that. Like it was a very awkward thing where I felt like Sarah Jessica, and I'll ask her, but I felt like she felt confident about doing it. that, but then I felt like there was judgment put on it, you know, by other people. Do you know what I'm saying? Of course. Yeah. So it's interesting. And that's all in the storyline here about many different ways of judging and also like how do you package things? Yeah. Yeah. How do you package it? Like she wants to be taken seriously as a as a writer. Right. And yet, wait, I have to do this. Right. And I feel like that was the way, like sex sells,

especially objectifying women. Yep. You know, it's like this is going to get the eyeballs on it. Exactly. Who cares about, you know, who cares about the content. And it's like, no, I care about the content. Right. And that's not what I'm selling.

But you like, you can look at that now with social media. Oh my God. It's like, what's going to get the eyeballs? Yeah. And then I'll worry about the work later. Definitely. It ends up like not working in the end and not having a life. So many women don't wear clothes now, you know, when they're out promoting things.

But it's also thought of like as they have freedom, you know, and it's supposed to be kind of empowering in a way. Right. It's like I can do what I want to do. It's like, you know, it translates a lot to stand-up comedy. Because when you think of the women, I remember when I started in the 80s, women were really, we were wearing jackets. We never showed our body because the audience wouldn't listen. Like we're already fighting to get your respect because it's like,

oh yeah, okay, let's see what this chick has to say. If you showed any part of your body, that's what the guys in the audience would focus on. And maybe the women would be like, I'm not going to listen to her. She has a hot body. And you know, so if. If you look at the, at the trajectory of what women are wearing on stage now versus the 80s, 90s, early aughts. It's, you know, we're very, I don't know, you know, you think about Paula Poundstone. Right. It's a big suits. Yeah, the suits.

Yeah. It was just like, you know, Phyllis Diller. Even her, she said, I'm going to wear this crazy outfit because my legs look funny. And I just, you know, I want to. And, you know, Joan, Joan was, Joan Rivers was very about, you have to be pretty. And she over, overdid her face, you know. Right. But you look at it and we're very androgynous.

Yeah. 80s, 90s, early aughts. Yeah. And then finally this, you know what? I'm going to own my body. And I'm going to, you know, I'm going to wear whatever the, the fuck I want. I mean, these, and I remember thinking, these guys get on stage and they're wearing sweatpants and like, like, filthy t-shirts and like, you know, they haven't bathed. And it's like,

how come you get to get on stage like that? Right. Right. And you're just a funny dude. Right. And we have to like cover up our body so that you're listening to what's coming out of our mouth. That's super interesting. But now, even if you think about like Nikki Glazer, Nikki Glazer, you know, it's like very sexy and presents like I'm very sexy. Right. And then she tells stories about sex and jokes and whatever. Right. And owning it.

Yeah, she definitely owns it. It's inherently part of her act. I don't think it's anti-feminist. I think it's, you know, because she owns it because, you know, it's, you know, I always think is being a feminist and and present, women, presenting themselves, you know, is feminism, I can do exactly what this guy's doing or say exactly what? It's not. It's that whatever I say is equally as valid and important as what that guy's saying. Definitely. It's that we are who we are. Right. And it's equal and not being them,

you know, so and I think she, she embodies that. I agree. I agree. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I also think it's like, who are you really, right? Like, you should be able to present who you really are. If you felt like wearing a suit, you could wear a suit. But you shouldn't be forced to wear a suit based on other people's perception, you know? Right. Because if Carrie was a guy, they would be putting her in a suit. Of course.

Yes. And it's just so, like, since you're a woman writing this, we need to, you know. Go for the sex because that's what's going to sell. Because that's what women are. And also because they want men to look at it and that would be the way to pull men in. And it's not thought that, oh, you might alienate the women or whatever, right? Like, it's really interesting. And it's also pre-me-too.

Yep. And so, and I think the fact that Molly and Amy are women telling her, like, there's no way it would have had the same impact if it was two guys saying, you know. Well, that would have been totally different and weird. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. But also her reaction is so funny, too. Yeah. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense.

Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pastos survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.za for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything.

Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show's famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller.

The definition of what is a movie has kind of changed anywhere too, right? What do you think it is now? It's images and words being spoken, captured by some sort of technology. Danny McBride. He loves it. Oh, that's fantastic. And you make it on, you make your own. That's great.

I call him Terro Reed. It's a good name. They're all named after cast members of American Pie. Yeah. I call, I don't, I never looked up if she was in this, but I call him Leachie Sobieski. Yeah. I don't think she was an American Pie, but I still like that. Haven't looked it up.

She was prominent around the same time. Then Mary Steenbergin. Why are you guys talking to me? I'm worried. I'm worried. Why are you talking so down to me that you think I don't understand your little play game? I just really. I get it.

I'm trying to set you up for success here. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Solita, we share the messy stories of traveling alone as a woman. Your duolingo is not going to. come back to you when a man is inside of you. Oh, no. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first.

I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is like. offering me a ride on his motorcycle. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is, and not the lies you're sold about it. So whether you're a solo travel veteran

or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nick Tuturo. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, the longest yard, or Spike Lease Black Klansman. But I'm also from Queens, which means I know pizza. And on my new podcast, delivering happiness with Nick Totoro,

I deliver pizza from Prince Street pizza to a new guest. Are you delivering pizza now? Then we sit down for a real conversation. I've shared a slice with everyone from Seth Rollins. What are you doing, my belt? To Alex Rodriguez. Just to let you people know, we're talking to one of the goats here. To Bill Burr.

I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am. And now, we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Tutu. This gold happiness. Delivering happiness. Mariano Rivera. Oh my God. And many, many more.

Open your free high, hard radio app. Search delivering happiness with Nick Tutro. And listen now. And then this whole thing with Samantha, I totally forgot about this. I totally forgot that because she doesn't know how to present herself, she basically ends up kind of asking Samantha her opinion. And then Samantha's like, oh, I'm going to help you.

And she's like, I can't afford you. It's all very interesting. And then they kind of get into a conflict about this. also because of the delivery man blow job, which we'll get to in a second. But it's super interesting, like, how, like, the twist that's put on all of these things in terms of them being on kind of opposite sides, you know, like, like the idea of, you know, what would be presentable on the cover of your book. And Samantha's like, oh, I'm going to call a stylist friend of mine.

And he's going to pull some outfits for you. And then she gets there and the outfits are like fluffy maribou feathers on long. You know? Right. And Samantha thinks that this would be a good book cover. And Carrie's like, no, I look like a hooker, which she looks like a hooker from the 20s or the 30s or something. Like Vonville. It's all really interesting, you know.

But Samantha's like, no, it's all very, very interesting. And I felt very much when I was watching it, like I was taken back to the time that we were at, because this is when the show is now really popular. And we're having to do all kinds of bizarre photo shoots where, like, I don't know if this had happened yet. I'd have to go back and look, but there's a cover that we do of Entertainment Weekly. Oh, like, like, like level 10 nightmare in my book, this thing. We go, it's this kind of like young, hot guy director, you know, photographer, director, whatever. And he wants us, all four of us, supposedly naked under a sheet.

And I remember just sweating, just sweating. and the picture that they end up using, he would like, he would shout things out. Like the other thing we're supposed to be wearing lingerie. And again, I didn't feel happy. None of the lingerie fit me. It was all awkward. And I didn't want to wear like regular.

It was so weird, right? But we really felt like we had to do it because we also felt like the show needed press. And we needed to do the thing that you need to do to get the press, right? And so I, there were these vintage lingerie sets. And one was like pantaloons kind of like down to here with like ribbons. Right? Like kind of pretty baby, but at least coverage, you know? So I was like, oh, please let me wear those.

So I put them on and I'm like, please like them because you know, you had to get everything approved by all the 20 million people there that you don't know. And they're like, no, she can't wear that. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like I'm just stressing. And I think Pat and Molly are there. And so then they're like, okay, well, you have to wear this other thing. I can't even remember what it was, but I didn't feel good in it.

So I'm covering myself in the sheet. At which point the photographers, he gives the, four of us are in our weird poses, right? Like all facing the camera. And the photographer keeps saying like, Katrina, Katrina, spread your legs. And everyone's like, who's he talking to? Who's he talking to?

And we're kind of trying to figure out, like, is he talking to cameras? He's talking to me? Like, I don't know. And then finally I'm like, me? And he's like, yeah, you, spread your legs. He's got me on the bed on my knees. And he wants me to spread my legs.

And I'm dying, okay? I'm dying. Sir Jessica is wearing like boy underwear. Like this is like her type. whitey phase, right? I think she feels strong because she's wearing something unusual and masculine. It's like a twist that she likes, right? I'm just dying.

I'm sweating and I feel like I might cry. So the picture that ends up, I know, I know. The picture that they end up using, we're sitting all in a row and we have the sheet on top of us. And I'm basically just trying to cover myself up and I look like I'm about to cry and then I'm mad. And I'm like moving my hair. It's like a shot where I didn't think they were. I didn't think they were taking the picture. Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah. And all I can think about when I look at that picture is how upset I am, you know? Still? Yeah, it takes me right back there to just the intense, you know, anxiety that would come from them thinking that you would just be fine, just totally fine. Right. To be wearing underwear on the cover of a magazine. Do you think they would get away with that now? Like there would be.

that's a good question. I think it would depend who it was. But you feeling like that, right? Yeah. Yeah. No, we would have a voice. We would have a voice. But I mean, I think that what happened then, like what I remember of it then, was that the magazine wanted what the magazine wanted, right? Right. And we wanted to please the magazine because we were getting the cover of a magazine, which was a very big deal for us. You know what I'm saying? It wasn't like that was happening every week or even every season. No, I get it. I don't think we had had a cover of a magazine. it was a huge deal. So you're trying to please the people who want to put you on the cover and you feel like that's a prerequisite prerequisite at the time, right? And somehow my other co-stars were feeling better about it than I was. I don't really know how. Or maybe they were pretending better.

I'm not sure. But I'm just really bad at that. But I do think now there are so many people in our industry and I'm kind of thinking of people singing people who that's their, they normally wear lingerie. their normal what they wear for their whole entire stadium show, right? Right. Yeah, but that's their choice. Like, that's their character they created. That's what they think the audience expects, and they feel comfortable in that. And you shouldn't feel uncomfortable.

And I agree. I agree. But I think they thought that we were on a show called Sex and the City and that we should be fine. And it's a sex. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. But it's very different to be on a set with your crew who you know and who's going to protect you. You know what I'm saying?

With a closed set. that we would have if we had a sex scene and you're acting, that's totally different than like me, Kristen, you know, coming to a photo shoot and being like, hello, you know, it's just weird. Anyway, you know, I was thinking all these things when I was watching the show because I think these things were kind of happening in our lives, you know, not in the show, right? And so Michael's like pulling it all in together to what's going on in our lives at the time.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I totally get it. I remember I was, I was a regular on all I'm American girl, which was Margaret Chos sitcom, right? So, and it was one year. And one of the episodes, Margaret and, um, and me and Maddie Corman, um, we all move in together. We're her best friends. And we move into an apartment together. And the, I like to walk around naked. And that's, so they do this episode where it's like every time I walk in the room, they're like, Gloria, ew, right?

And I have a, I have a flesh-colored, I hate saying my flesh-colored body suit on, and it's pixelated. And, you know, the funny part of the scene is Margaret's family comes over unexpectedly. And I'm like, hey, and I walk out. And the little brother's like, Gloria, oh, you know, whatever. It's like. And I remember being on set in this flesh-colored body suit, and one of the camera guys or grips said something. Uh-oh.

And I was like, no, this is so uncomfortable for me. Like, no, and I went and told on him and he had to leave. You know, that's good, because back in the day, there was not the things in place that we need, you know, always. I mean, I think the nice thing for us on set was that we had a lot of the same crew for the whole, you know, run of the show. Yeah, it was like a family.

Yeah, and everyone was super sensitive. I mean, not all the time, not all the time. I'm thinking of a couple occasions where it was in the case, but it's more rare occasions when they weren't than most of the time, you know, and that was so important for us for what we were trying to do. The thing that was interesting was that back in the day, mostly,

and it would somewhat depend on the director, right? Because the directors would change. would change. And, you know, there's a whole variety of types of directors, right? And I remember there was one, you know, in the beginning, there were some awkward times. I've talked about it on the podcast before where, you know, it was unclear. Was the show for men? Was the show for women?

Was it supposed to be funny or was it supposed to be sexy? Like, there was a lot of confusion within our creative world about our purpose in the beginning. And that led to some awkward times in the beginning. where you had to kind of stand up and say like, I'm not going to be pretending to give a hand job on camera. It needs to be under the sheets, right? And they'd be like, what do you mean? This is called Sex and the City.

And that particular time I had to go hide in my dressing room and call my manager back in L.A. to be like, help me, do something, call someone. But then we worked it out like what the vibe was. And somewhat, the vibe was somewhat what you felt comfortable, right? Like it was, we had enough power that we could speak. You know what I'm saying? Which wasn't always the case, right?

Right. It's like you're putting yourself out there. Right. And yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Sometimes if you were, like if you were an actress on a film set, you probably didn't have that power because you were probably just surrounded by men. Right.

Right. And there were 20 actresses lined up to do that part. You know what I'm saying? So you had that sense of like, oh, I better not say what I actually would like here because I am going to get in trouble and potentially get fired. Right. I did definitely feel that that was the norm in our industry for a really long time. So I think intimacy coordinators is great. Yeah.

Cut to, I think, you know, we've got, there's a happy medium. That's what I want to say. There's a happy medium, you know. That's true. Anyway, let's go back to the show. Let's go back to the show. Okay, okay. Okay, so Carrie is going through this whole thing where she, like, kind of inadvertently gets Samantha's help on the book cover.

And then so, and she says to Samantha, like I can't afford you. And Samantha says it'll only cost two martinis and a lunch, which is so adorable. Right. Yeah. And so then they, they,

she's going to the office to meet her to talk about outfits. And she walks in on Samantha, blowing her package delivery guy. I think she says worldwide package. Yeah, worldwide. And he's Monday, Wednesday,

Friday or something. Yes, exactly. And she's, I think we're trying not to offend any of the major, like, delivery services. Right, right.

So that we can. still get our packages in life. And it is pretty funny. And Carrie, like, bumps into five things on her way out, which is also adorable. And then, and then Samantha calls her later and says,

like, oh, wasn't that so funny back at the office? And Carrie's kind of, you know, stilted about it. Like, doesn't seem, isn't, like, rolling with it, basically, you know? And so then at a certain point, Samantha says, like, lighten up, you know, and Carrie's like, oh, okay.

And then Carrie's, tries to make some jokes about like, you know, whatever, the delivery guy, whatever. Now, then we get, I don't know, there's so many things to talk about. Then we eventually go to the photo shoot where, like, Samantha's picked these outfits that are like lingerie from the 40s or whatever. At which point, Stanford comes, which is so exciting because I feel like Stanford hasn't been the show for a while. Right, right. And he's so, so, so great and funny. He's so great.

Oh, it's so hard to watch. But also made me laugh. So he's at her apartment. she's looking through magazine she's very focused on trying to get an outfit he's gazing out the window and she's like what's going on turns out stanford has a boyfriend it's very exciting very exciting and a very cute boy i mean sean sean's very cute we need to get sean on the podcast we're going to try to find him his name is sean palmer and he plays marcus he's great adorable and he's a dancer and it's funny because carrie doesn't seem that impressed by the fact that he's a dancer radio city

musical and I was like, why isn't Carrie more impressed by that? I would have thought she would be. But they're discussing judging when it all comes up because Stanford is afraid to tell her what he does, the boyfriend does for a living because he thinks she's going to judge him. Right. I think so kind of weird, but I get it. We're talking about judgment, so it makes sense. Yeah.

And then Samantha calls and that she got her friend to pull someone looks for her. Then they go and excitingly, Stanford and the boyfriend come to the photo shoot. to see this crazy Maribu outfit. And the boyfriend's adorable. And they very awkwardly tried to juggle Samantha's opinions and Carrie's opinions, which really made me laugh. I know. I loved it.

Right? It was so good. And then they leave. And Samantha ends up walking in on the boyfriend giving Stanford a blowjob, which helps her in the end come around to say, I kind of understand your side, you know, because I walked in on them. which I thought was a really good turn. That scene where he's getting the blowjob,

I instinctively, when she closes the door, looked at the door to see if it was the men's restroom. And it just said restroom. Whoa. Yeah, it didn't say. Interesting. Yeah, and I, that's a whole, I mean, you can go into that first. Yeah, that's really interesting.

Yeah. I also had the weird feeling, felt like we were at Barnes and Noble. I'm sure we weren't. But you don't even mean? Like, you know how we were trying to cross-board things? It looked like a Barnes & Noble bathroom to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it was all very, like I just really was, as I often am, very impressed with how the writing pulls every single storyline. Oh, everything together. It's really, really, really well done. Yeah. She calls her weird outfit Lady Marmalade, which is pretty funny. Really good. And it's also funny because.

because I feel like we've seen Carrie in an outfit kind of like this. Right. You know? Like, but yeah, I mean, I understand that she wouldn't want to wear it on the cover of her book, but I was kind of like,

that's not that shocking for Carrie. Right. But I guess she's trying to say, I'm different now, you know, for some reason. I don't exactly know why. Right.

And also she wants to present herself as this author, you know? Right. Right. Like sophisticated, I guess is her gist of what she is going for. And then the end. I do really like what she wears, which does end up being the cover of her book, which we see now through the rest of the show and the next show.

She's wearing like a blazer with no pants, which, you know, works, right? Like it's still sexy, but it's... It's still sexy, but it's not like, you know, in your face. Right, like tardy. It's not tardy. Yeah. Yes, yes, which makes a lot of sense. So then when they...

There's the conversation towards the end between Samantha and Carrie. which is super interesting. Basically, Carrie goes to see her and says something like, oh, it's been two days and four phone calls and, you know, what's going on? And Samantha's like, do we really have to do this? And Carrie's like, yes. It was all super, super interesting.

But they kind of both apologize. And Carrie does say, I was judging you. And that's nice because the whole time she's been like, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not. I pretty much know she is, you know. But it's also funny because I'm, I'm like, why?

I don't know. Like, it's interesting. And I guess this is how it is with friends like, because she was with Richard, Samantha was with Richard for a while before this, right? But like, did they forget who she was? Do you mean? Because like, this isn't that shocking.

It doesn't seem. But I guess because we're a little older now. I think they're trying to make the point that we're a little older now. And I also felt when I was watching it that this is what Michael was thinking, the public was thinking about the show. Oh, that's true. That's true. Like how can they keep doing this? Like, aren't they getting older?

You know, like that was the commentary. So he's basically trying to say to those people who are judging us, like, this is who we are. And you shouldn't judge us. We can do what we want, meaning women. Women can do what they want. Yeah, unapologetically. Right. Exactly.

Right. But it's interesting. And I, you know, fully forgotten this, that Samantha goes through this whole kind of thing of being judged and having to stand up for herself, like, oh, blow who I want when I want. You know, and then Carrie has to say, you know, who am I going to be? Am I going to wear this tardy outfit or wear clothes or not wear clothes? You know, it's very interesting. It's very interesting. I like it.

Charlotte has a kind of a less interesting storyline, though I also really liked it. I love when we're in the bookstore. I forgot about this because I think it's, I think we've been. Oh, no, I think I went shopping with Carrie in a grocery store last episode or previous episode. There's a lot of like Charlotte out in the world. But she's sad because this is in between Trey and her. Harry, which, you know, is an interesting time for her. And she's just harping on that she has to start again, start again, start again.

So the funniest part is when she goes to the self-help part of the bookstore, which I fully relate to, fully relate to that. I was like, oh, Lord, what book is she going to get? So she wants to get this book called Starting Over Yet Again, but she's embarrassed. So she goes home and orders it on Amazon because we also see Carrie on Amazon talking about two-day shipping. or whatever, which is just mind-boggling. And now it's like you press send and it's at your door. Exactly. Same day because it has taken over our lives, as we all know, strangely.

And then, so Charlotte, Charlotte gets embarrassed when she's in the self-help section with all the crying women. And so she's like, travel? Travel. I know. I love that. Me too. And I don't know.

And that crying woman who's like, that's a great book. that book. That's the final straw where Charlotte's like, yeah, no, I can't be like this crying woman, crying in the bookstore. So she goes home, she orders it in the privacy of her own home, the book comes, and then her Amazon says, because you bought this book about starting over, we're going to show you some other books that you might like, such as reservation for one.

At which point, Charlotte takes the self-help book and throws it out her window. And then, adorably, it lands on. on the sidewalk and another woman picks it up and says the voiceover, Carrie tells us that this woman is contemplating a divorce, but considers this book falling from the sky, a sign from God, and doesn't divorce. I'm like, it could have been a sign from God to divorce. Two divorce, right. Right?

It's all very interesting. It's really good. It's really good. And then with the Samantha part, it's all just her struggling with, well, first of all, I did think that the scene with the delivery guy was pretty funny and adorable. I did too. Because I didn't remember it, right? And it's funny to see Samantha, you don't know if she's going to succeed.

Yeah. And also the way she's so forward with him that you're like, is he, you go, is he going to run away? Yeah. I thought he was. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, no, he's a guy. Totally. Totally.

When she makes it clear that she's willing to do it right now, he's like, oh, okay. And it's so funny. So that's what Carrie walks in on, Samantha giving the delivery guy a blow job in her own office, which is kind of funny. And then at lunch, Carrie makes a joke. And then, oh, with the rest of us. And then is it me? Someone's like, who? What's going on?

You know, and then Samantha seems embarrassed. You are so innocent in that scene. I know. Oh, Charlotte. Charlotte's so innocent. Oh, I love Charlotte. You do? It's just, yeah, because she's just like, wants everything to be perfect and romantic and, you know.

It's true. I think there's little Charlotte and everyone, but, you know. I hope so. I think so. I mean, I think there's some of all the characters and everyone. Yeah, same. That's why they're good. That's why they're good.

Absolutely. And then Samantha is all like changing the subject. And then Miranda and Charlotte are trying to figure out what's going on. And then there's this whole, uh, Carrie. thing. And then Carrie says she looks like a hooker. I'm just reading my book. It's funny sometimes to read the synopsis. Yeah. And then she walks in on Stanford and the boyfriend, which is, I think, a great way to end it because she has inside. It's just like it's so in your face and it's like, oh, right. You know, oh, I get it. Yeah. It's not great to walk in on people. Yeah.

Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pastos survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty? half full, or come home at all. And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.za for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything.

On Solita, we share the messy stories of traveling alone as a woman. Your duolingo is not going to come back to you when a man. is inside of you. Oh, no. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it.

So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast, Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show is famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stillard.

The definition of what is a movie has kind of changed anywhere too, right? What do you think it is now? It's images and words being spoken, captured by some sort of technology. Danny McBride. He loves Nova. Oh, that's fantastic. And you make it on, you make your own. That's great.

I call him tarot read. It's a good name. They're all named after cast members of American Pie. Yeah. Oh, gotcha. I call, I don't, I never looked up if she was in this, but I call him Leachie Sobieski. Yeah, I don't think she was an American Pie, but I still like that. Haven't looked it up.

She was prominent around the same time. Yeah. Then Mary Steenbergin. Why are you guys talking to me? I'm worried. I'm worried. Why are you talking so down to me that you think I don't understand your little play, play game? I just really.

I get it. I'm trying to set you up for success here. Listen to Hollywood. handbook on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nick Totoro. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, the longest yard, or Spike Lease Black Klansman. But I'm also from Queens, which means I know pizza. And on my new podcast, delivering happiness with Nick Totoro, I deliver pizza from

Prince Street pizza to a new guest. Are you delivering pizza now? Then we sit down for a real conversation. I've shared a slice with everyone from Seth Rollins. What are you doing, my belt? To Alex Rodriguez. Just to let you people know. We're talking to one of the goats here.

To Bill Burke. I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am. And now we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Tuturo. It's called Happiness, Delivering Happiness. Mariano Rivera. Oh, my God.

And many, many more. Open your free High Heart Radio app. Search Delivering Happiness with Nick Totoro. And listen now. And then there's the Miranda storyline. Oh, my God. So good. Oh, that is.

So rich that storyline. Yeah. We could really like I could also just like I feel like you could cut Miranda's storyline all together and it's just like a perfect little short film. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you were there with Cynthia shooting the scene, you're seen when you're the person who works at Bards

and Noble, did you guys do it a lot? Do you remember like what went on? Yeah, we did it a bunch of times. And yeah, because they have to get the different camera angles. Right. But yeah, it was very fun. I knew, I know Cynthia. Right.

Her kid and my son and her son, Sam. Right. Were in the same Hebrew school class. Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. That's fun. I knew we knew you in a couple different ways, but I could remember all of them.

That's really neat. That's good. It's always fun to know people and then get to work with them. Yeah. It's the best. It's the best. But yeah, it was so fun. And I still, every time I walk by that Parns and Noble at Union Square,

I think of that episode. Oh, that's nice. I love Barnes & Noble. I'm so glad that they're still there. Same. Remember when we thought they were going to go? Oh, yeah. That was scary.

I know, but they're fine. I feel like books are back. Yeah, they're doing great. Right? I think a lot of the old stuff, people are getting sick of this crap. I think you're right. I like to, I like, you know, I want to touch stuff.

Definitely, definitely, definitely. I like a real book in my hand if I'm going to read, if I'm going to try to find time. day to read. I want to hold it. Yeah. For sure. Let's just talk for a second about when Cynthia goes to Weight Watchers. I'm so glad you have actual experience because when

they were talking about how the woman writes her weight down correctly or incorrectly or whatever, I was like, wow, is this what you actually go through at Weight Watchers? Oh my God, yes. And then I used to be like, I'm wearing jeans and that's like two pounds. Oh, my God. People are taking

off their shoes and their socks and their, you know, jacket. and their shirt. And it's so, you have no power. Like you're, you get on and there's someone behind there and like, and for them not to, you know,

they just write it down, you know, and you're like, what are they thinking? They're thinking, you're a fucking loser. You gain two pounds. You know,

it's just, it's so humiliated. I mean, part of it is the humiliation. Like you don't want to disappoint. Yeah, it's, it, just that, oh my God, that card made me crazy because I had so many of those cards. My mother took me when I was a teenager. What? Yes. Oh, my God. And you survived. You survived. Amazing. And I have to tell you, it really was truly the only way to lose weight.

But you had to eat like that for the rest of your life. Oh my gosh. And some people did it. With the points and everything? Yeah. Well, now they didn't have points then. It was like calories. Okay.

And how many calories you had and you'd have to write everything down. It was just like, oh. Did they talk about exercise or no? Not in the 70s. Okay. Right. Right. But yeah.

Now it's that, but then they did because remember he has says, we have an activity points. Yes. Oh my God. Yes. That's why they... Which is the sex. Yes. Yes. Wow. Well, congratulations that you survived being taken to Weight Watchers as a team. Oh, my God. Because that would be thought of now as like bad. Yeah. Yeah. I mean as like, you know, abuse. But yeah, now we went, my mother went. We all went. Yeah. Oh, so she was going and she took you with her. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Got it. Well, that makes sense because also that as you're saying is the only way that we were... It was the only way. Yeah. Right. Right, right, right. It's interesting.

I have a 14-year-old, almost a 15-year-old, and I work so hard not to talk about body things just to like try. And I don't even know if I'm succeeding or not succeeding because it just takes so much work in my head, right? Not to save my own thoughts about my own body. I obviously think she's a goddess, a beautiful goddess, right? It's so hard. It's so hard. And lately I've been thinking like if I'm going to, there's too much information,

but I'll go ahead. if I'm going to go out in the world, like we're going to Hawaii soon for her birthday. And I have assorted different skirts I will wear with my swimsuits, right? Like swim skirts. But at home, we have a pool and I'm like, I'm just going to show my cellulite because I want her to feel like I'm fine with it because this is normal. Normal when these bodies have cellular. Right?

But I have to force myself to do it. I know. It's really hard. Don't put anything over it. Don't put anything on. Don't just walk down there in your bathing suit because you want her to feel fine. Right. And it's not that you, it's like all learned behavior.

Right. Your behavior, your feelings are all learned. That's right. Because, I mean, I'm in Provincetown. There are, fun. There are what I live here part of the year. Amazing. And there are, you see these women walking on the beach.

Every body type you can imagine. Yay. No one cares. Amazing. And you know, part of me is like, oh, my God. And then the other part's like, good for you. you, you know? Definitely. Definitely. It's hard. It's hard because it has been a whole many, many long years of life. It's how we were brought on. I mean, come on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.

But I, but it's what I love about this storyline. And I mean, also Carrie's dealing with it in terms of perception of what she wears, right? Like there's so much body images you talk about. Like, what do people think of us in terms of what does our body look like? What are we wearing on our body? What does it all mean about us? You know, it's a lot. And also, I think there's a lot a theme of, you know, I know it's all about, you know, body and judgment, but I think there's also an underlying theme of what's appropriate. You know, what's the appropriate thing to do? And that, that means, you know, you have the general public what's appropriate. And then you have what's appropriate for me. You know?

What makes me comfortable? This is what is appropriate for me, and this makes me feel good. And that takes time to learn. Oh, duh, yeah. 100%. It's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I'm still learning, you know.

And you change over time, obviously, too. So much. You feel comfortable about. Yeah. It's super interesting. But I do love the Miranda storyline, and I love that guy so much. And I'm kind of sad when he's like,

we can't see each other anymore. I know. Because basically what she says, I should just spit it out. What she says. says to him because he's been going down on her and then he comes up and he kisses her right away and to her it looks like he's been eating a donut but it's actually her right and then marina Samantha so you know what's my name marat charlotte i have this whole thing about like there should be

a tissue by the bench yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean like wow wow that's interesting to me like i don't know how you get someone to do that that's crazy but um it's interesting very charlotte and she so she does, they're like, you should say something to him. So she does. She says like, oh, I can't kiss you because I'm all over you. It's me. It's me. She's trying to make it like about herself.

And then he's like, you know, well, I can't see you anymore because now I'm self-conscious. And, you know, now I've got to eat. She says, oh, he says, I want a pop pie or, no, I want seven because he's already said he overeats when he feels criticized. It's all very, it's so deeply layered, you know. And then Miranda has now criticized him, even though she's. was trying not to, and he says, I don't think we should see each other anymore, which is so sad.

I know. It's so sad the way he covers himself up and leaves. Oh, I know. Because, yeah, it's like that sheet is protecting him. Definitely. And you really believe him. Like, he's very good. And then in the end, we find out so good. We find out that Miranda now has to go to the infamous Weight Watchers, which is on 23rd Street, next to the Krispy Creek. Which is pretty funny. Pretty funny. But I did really love the whole thing. And I'm, I'm kind of wondering now. And occasionally, I notice this with our show, but it's like, you know, there's certain conventions with each show. I don't know that we ever hear about wait watchers again. Like, I'm curious now. Do we, do we ever hear about it? Do we not hear about it? That's right. That's right. Yeah. I should ask Cynthia. She would know. But that's the joy of rewatching, too, did you know, because it's all new to me in a way. I mean, I remember things like when I, when we started the bookstore, I remember that. that I'm wearing a big raw floor and pink pony because that's a breast cancer thing.

That they would sell a different version of that sweater every year and all the proceeds would go to breast cancer research which is so great. And I think they stopped for a while and then I think they reissued it and they called us saying, could we use Kristen's picture from the show

back in the day? And I was like, of course, because it's still for breast cancer. You know, it's so great. But I think they stopped for a while, which is sad because they're so, so cute. And I think I have them at home. home in my closet somewhere, the originals, you know, because it's fun.

Oh, I know, I love that. Me too, me too. Okay, wait, I have a pressing question for you. Are you a Charlotte Judy Gold? I think I'm a little charlotte-y. I'm a little Charlotte, gay. I know, I think I'm Charlotte in the, you know, this always wonder, she wonders a lot, you know. Yeah.

And I love that. she's curious. She definitely seeks out different ways to make herself feel better. Like, yes, I am definitely and that

like loving romance and stuff. You love romance? Yes. I love like candlelit dinners. Wow. I love that. That's adorable. I would not have known that. Yes. And I make the dinners.

I like, I like lighting. That's very Charlotte. That's very Charlotte. Yeah. Very sweet. I mean, the obvious choice would be a Miranda type of a vibe. Right. Is that, because that's your comedy kind of like a cervic.

Right. But, you know, there's another part of me. You know, there's a little, yeah, that I don't show to everyone. I don't show everyone my Charlotte. Oh, I got it. I got it. I love it. That's really nice.

I save it. Well, I think the other thing about you, which is interesting, is that I do think that the comedian side of you is what leads your thinking, but you really are an actor more so than just a comedian. You know, and I think that that is what is clear if you talk to you at all. You know what I'm saying? You're more actor. You know, Joan Rivers studied anthropology.

You're like, you really are studying the human condition. Yeah. And so when you're acting, I mean, acting is about listening, which is why a lot of comedians aren't great at it, but it's it's about listening. but it's also about, you know, encompassing someone, another person and what their motivations are and what they're, you know, and that to me is really fun. I agree. Yeah, it is really fun. I agree. It's hard, but it's fun. Yeah. It's challenging. And it never gets boring, which is nice. But neither just stand up because stand up is also really, really hard. I love it. Oh, so scary to think about. I have so much respect for anyone who can get up there and make people laugh, you know? Well, you were a joy. Thank you for joining us. You're so fun. Have fun in Hawaii.

Oh, thank you. I'm looking forward to it. Yes, I got to keep both children, you know, engaged. That's my only. Oh, I know. Been there and done that. Yes, but it'll be great. It'll be great. Yeah. Thank you so much for working for me. Bye. Have fun in Provincetown. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast, Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show's famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our

650 episodes and understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller, Danny McBride, Riz Ahmed, and Mary Steenberg. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. Your duolingo is not going to come back to you when a man is inside of you. Oh, no. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Nick Tuturo. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, the longest yard, or Spike Lease Black Klansman. And on my new podcast, delivering happiness with Nick Totoro, I deliver peace. to a new guest. I've shared a slice with everyone from Seth Rollins. What are you doing my belt? To Bill Burr. I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am.

And now we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Tuturo. It's called Happiness. Delivering Happiness. And many, many more. Open your free High Heart Radio app. Search Delivering Happiness with Nick Tutro. And listen now. I'm Hoda Kotbby, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby.

You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Thank you.