Are You A Charlotte? - Head Over Feet with Mary Beth Barone... (S3 E4 "Boy, Girl, Boy, Girl...)

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

Is it ironic that Kristin and Mary Beth Barone continue their conversation and this time they are discussing the kiss between guest star, Alanis Morissette and Carrie.  You Oughta know all the details of that kiss and the behind the scenes!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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how he redefined American television and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines waiting for a face like hours on screen. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Okay, this episode is called Boy Girl, Boy Girl, and it is written by Jenny Bix. Jenny Bix, to me, is she grew up on the Upper East Side. She really helped Charlotte get developed. She came on, wasn't it halfway through the second, second, I think.

She came on as a consult first, like a consultant. Was it first? Okay. She came on a little bit and she said it was just Michael, Darren, and her. And sometimes she would have to draw drawings on the whiteboard of how female anatomy worked. I'm glad she was there. I know. I'm really glad she was there too.

Excuse me. I'm really glad she was there too. And then Cindy came. And then we had two. And then they eventually rose to be executive producers, which was great. Yeah. But it's funny to me that she wrote this

because I think of her as just really like middle of the road, not edgy in any way. Sorry, Jenny. But you know what I mean? Right? But it's interesting because literally this episode, when you watch it in 2025, it is stunningly correct.

It is very, it is one of the timeless episodes, I would say. Right. And there are many. but I just think also what's so amazing about being a writer is that you get to explore sides of yourself that you don't show people ever except on the page. So I'm sure this was such a fun way to like stretch those, you know, parts of herself.

Definitely, yes. And so I rewatched it before I got here when I was in New York last week. And I also want to say that I love that those three characters that are in just like that, they stay in New York. Yeah. Because I think there's this idea that as you grow older,

you have to leave and go do the social suburban thing, but I'm like New York for life. I've been there for 13 years. So I just love that they really do, like, grow up in New York. Of course. And they are committed. And they're like icons mainstays. Yes. So this episode where Charlotte is showing an exhibit by a photographer who dresses women in male drag is happening at the same time as Carrie is, she is, it is revealed that she's dating a younger bisexual. Yes. Who's adorable. Adorable. Eddie K. Hill. Yeah. who apparently has quit the business we found out. Because he was smart.

We were investigating. He wanted more for his life. He's just so adorable. I'm sure that's true. I don't know his whole story. But he is adorable. And I remember at the time just feeling like I didn't even understand. I was like, that kid's so young.

You know, even for us at the time. And we were very young, but we didn't feel that young. We felt like old Hollywood people. You know what I mean? Because in back then you were supposed to be done at 40. Right. That was what they always told us. all of us were told by our agents and everybody.

Enjoy it. We've done it for you. And so you've got to work now. Which, thank God is not true anymore. Thank the heavens. That's a good thing that's changed. Yeah. But it's not like it's easy, but it's pretty much changed.

But in terms of the whole episode, basically there are lines where she says things like, I mean, first of all, Carrie is very freaked out that this guy tells her, like, I had a relationship with guy and then a relationship with the girl. And she's like, what? And then we have this whole coffee shop scene

where she calls herself an old, Buddy-Duddy. And yes, she is. And now we really are, right? Like now this conversation is so mainstream. It is. And I think you would be surprised at how many people, how many women would still have hangups about dating a bisexual guy. And I think a lot of things go into that. And I think the main idea, which is something that I also talked about in my special, which is that like, I do think, I don't have numbers on this. I'm just hypothesizing that most bisexual. people end up with men, whether they're bisexual men or bisexual women. Because for women, well, I don't know the, I don't know the psychology. But I know as a bisexual woman, I have always

just sort of assumed that I will end up with a man. Because I've been dating men for 20 years at this point. I feel like I know the expectations. I know the rules of engagement. I'm totally open to being with the woman. Right. And I have been with women. But I think the expectation is just that I'm so used to that dynamic that I will probably end up with a guy. And then, And it does seem like with the by guys that I know, they do lean more gay. They do date more men. Right. So I think that there are still a lot of things that as a woman dating a bisexual man, you would really have to like interrogate. I'm sure there's people that have no problem with it and would just dive in and head first. I think the party scene is so interesting to me because that idea of staying friends with your ex, the different dynamics with like lesbian relationships.

I love that. I mean, that has just exploded into the mainstream as well. where back then I can't even imagine how that must have just felt like totally foreign to most of the people watching it. 100%. We don't even use the word polyamory because I don't think we knew it at that time, right? And I think for us, like I remember at the time

thinking, well, this is an odd episode. You know, it just seemed like, oh, what, this is odd, you know? Like kind of over there. And now it's just so incredibly right on that I love it so much. And I love that she keeps, like, I mean, obviously Charlotte is like, oh, of course he's going to be gay, you know, which, of course, she would say that, right?

That makes perfect sense. And I do know also what you're saying. And I talked also to Benny, because of what we were compensating about when I was in college, you know, they would take bets on the freshman boys who was going to be gay and who wasn't. Oh, my God. That's fascinating. It was all actors. Oh, of course. You know.

Yeah. And then I had this boyfriend who was a sophomore who had made it through the freshman year and was still calling himself straight. And later, no. Not so much. Not so much. So I really relate when I watch over-conferencing because he was a great guy, Bob. Yeah. And he was such a sweetie and such a great friend.

So for me, it was kind of awesome, except there's just some strangeness in the sex department. Of course. There's some mysteries, right? Some unanswered questions. Why is this not working? Yeah. It's very interesting. But I was so young.

I didn't know. You know, I thought it was me or, you know. Of course. Well, we always think it's us no matter what. Of course. I always think it's us. Definitely, definitely. kid, first of all, just seeing Sir Jessica is very, like, pours herself into this, like,

more so than I remember or that I really realized, because usually I felt like she kind of kept that for big, for the big relationship. Well, it seemed like this had to be one episode. So let's get through the storyline and we'll leave it at the apartment. But also, let's give it her all. I felt like she really gave it her all, like especially, like, they roll around and kiss and she's always very protective of her body and whatnot. and he's very sweet.

Like, it was so interesting. It was super interesting. And as someone that now, I never thought I'd be single again because both of my last relationships were, you know, talking about getting married and stuff. So I was like, I didn't think I'd be in this phase again. But now actually dating, I also think what's interesting, too,

is that he is so comfortable just declaring that he dated him in. I love it so much. He's not like, he doesn't hesitate. But I think dating, I have, you know, you meet people. I've met a couple of younger guys. And it does just feel like, oh, my God. Sometimes I feel like I'm 25 again with the 34-year-old's like sensibility and being self-actualized and that stuff. So it's interesting to watch Carrie sort of try to like fit in those spaces.

It is interesting. And she puts the outfit on, you know, she's got the boots. She's got the dress. God, that outfit. Fabulous. And sometimes it's fun to do that. I think it's fantastic. I mean, when I was watching it, I was like, good for Carrie.

Because she's not sure, but she loves his kissing. And she's trying it. And she's trying it. And she puts on those gold boots and that leather jacket or whatever it is. It's like, it's an interesting, it's an interesting one. It's different for Ms. Terry. Yeah, it's very different. And speaking of different.

Oh, then I know, I know. And I do vaguely remember this. And this is one of the things that I think of because this, I think, was the time. There was a lot of time in the beginning where they would say, like, I played the prude. Which if you actually look, no. She's getting railed, okay? I mean, let's not. Let's not say that.

Charlotte's doing stuff. Charlotte is definitely doing stuff way more than you really realize. And this in particular, one of the things that I love about it, because also do you remember the Hasidic Jewish character in the second season, I want to say?

I go to Williamsburg, your place of residence, and to visit him, he's a client. And I go to visit him and we get it on there in the artist studio in Williamsburg. And, you know, her art

connections are a way for her to expand herself. And then there's the guy who paints the Georgia O'Keefe-esque paintings. And I go to Connecticut to see him and his artist lost. And I think her, like, I think her engaging sexually with the artist makes so much sense to me, because I'm like, well, duh, that's, like, so attractive. Like, these are creatives that are putting their art out for people to consume. It's like, what is more attractive than that? Nothing.

And I think for Charlotte in this episode, it's so fun to watch her. the discomfort, but then she really feels in her power. And I find that even with my like sense of style, like, I really do go back and forth between being like hyper femme. And then some days I want to feel more masculine. And one Halloween, actually, Benny and I dressed as Courtney Kardashian and Travis Barker and I was Travis. And I had a bald cap on and a bunch of fake tattoos. And I love it. And I didn't have to touch my hair for the night. I was wearing a suit. I love it. It just was like I was comfortable. Yeah. And I feel like there is so much opportunity now. for women especially to really be on the spectrum of how their personal style.

There's so much freedom. And it was so fun to watch Charlotte with mustache just being like, I need a bigger sock. It was good. I know. It was good. It was good. It was also weird. And as I said, I almost wore the suit.

And then I was like, I didn't have time to get here in the morning and find a tie. But it's, I mean, Drew Barrymore wears this every day now. Like, there's, thank God, much more freedom. But obviously for Charlotte, what I also loved and I hadn't remembered is when we're, at the art show at the beginning, that I'm all like, um, like unnerved by him, you know, which is cute. And I remember there's a great picture of us. Um, the, I didn't remember it was this episode, but all of, Willie's there with us. And I've got the hoop earrings on, which is very rare. Yeah. I got the super long ponytail, which was all pets doing. And, um, it, it works.

It works. And I think I might even have a red lip. It was all very outside of my normal. But then you see that he's, like, I'm all like, can't even talk. And I talk about canopays, you know, in my nervous way. I had forgotten all that. And it's so, so sweet and cute. But also, like, that, I think is Charlotte's desire to, like, expand and go other places. And Carrie's like, you ask him out. You remember this?

It's so cute and sweet. And I love it so much. But then when I do, that was when Adam Scott was just on. We talked about Judy Chin, who was our makeup artist, who had done the movie Frida. Okay. Wow. And I learned to do the eyebrows so beautifully. and she did my mustache, and she also does severance, and she put a beard on Adam for the flashbacks.

Wow. So she's working. She's amazing. She's amazing. She won on Oscar. Okay. She's like, she's one of the greats. Top, top, top level and the most lovely person. And I remember really having fun with like, how are we going to make my hair? You know, I remember a lot of talk about the physicality of it. And I remember Donovan and I trying to figure out, like, we didn't want it to be cheesy. Yeah. But we wanted it to be because, I mean, also like now I was just, in London for a wedding and I took my daughter and we went to one of the art galleries. I'm not going to remember which one, the modern one.

And I mean, they had all these drag, drag queen, drag king pictures. And my daughter was like, whoa, you know, she's 14. But it was awesome, but it's very, very mainstream. Yeah. But it was happening here. And I think it's amazing that we put it in. But I do love, I do love Charlotte. And I think it's like kind of under, underappreciated how, how, how.

brave she was. Absolutely. And I think when you, yeah, again, it's like, I think sometimes when you think of the characters, you forget how many, because so many episodes, how many different situations they are put into. And sometimes they totally act within their, you know, what you expect. Right. And then sometimes they just totally surprise you. And I think that's, that's what's so fun about the show. It's the joy for sure. And I don't see Charlotte as a prude. I think she really wants to, what I take from Charlotte is she wants her sexual encounters to mean something. And I don't think that's a negative. I just think it's one approach to your, you know,

the sexual side of life. And I think when you see her in a situation like this, it's like she is doing something totally new. Right. Something that she probably never expected she would do. But I also love that the artist saw her the capability that she could do it. Right. Because at first I'm, Charlotte's like, no, no, I can't.

What? Like me? You know what I mean? And he's like, yes. So sweet. It's so cute and sweet. I love it. But let's talk about the bisexuality thing because it is interesting.

Like when you watch Carrie's whole struggle with it, what did you think? Did you think like, yes, she's so outdated? Or did you think, no, I totally understand. I think it is many people's experience even to this day. And I think what's great about the show, too, is that you explore bisexuality in a different way when Samantha dates the artist. And that's such a different type of relationship that I also really related to. Like the intensity of being with a woman and how different. it is and you're always talking about your feelings and it's so fiery and it's just like completely

different. Right. Than dating a man. But what I find, yeah, I think that Carrie's struggle and journey through this episode and at the end of it, she just decides it's not for her. Right. And that's okay because like, it is like, you know, you have to be true to yourself. You have to be. And you can't just do things because you feel the pressure. And that question of like if you saw a man and you were attracted to him, like would I, I think there's this thing people assume about bisexual people that they're attracted to everyone. Right. It's like, no, I'm attracted to hot people on either side.

Totally. It's not like anyone's a threat. I do think that's what she was tripping out about. And that makes sense at that time. I think, and people probably still have that question. Right. But I feel like it is, maybe there's a little more understanding of that nowadays. I think there's more understanding that it is the person.

Like at one point he says, no, Carrie, it's not about their man or woman is the person. That's what's so 2025, I think. I know. Right? like kind of amazingly so. But I also think that there is the question of, okay, so if you were with a man and then you're with a woman and you wanted to be with me, would I be able to fulfill all that you need? That's the question. Yeah. But she does never say that exactly. But I think that's what she's feeling when she's feeling insecure. Like, are you looking at that guy? Right. Right. Because who wants to feel any more insecure than you already do? Of course. And I think you, in relationships, it's like whether it is a man or a woman that you think your partner is at it's like you don't want them to be looking at other people anyway in general so right i think that's also about just like having good communication and being able to express insecurities without feeling judged um and so yeah in this case for carrie it wasn't it was a non-starter but i think

she she tried she tried but let me ask you this when she goes to the party and they play this spin the bottom which i also was like how okay interesting no it's these people are still They're still doing that. What? People just want to kiss each other. It's like they'll do anything in a party. Are you kidding me? I'm not kidding.

Maybe not here in L.A. Because everyone's so worried about like how they look. But in New York, people are definitely horny. I find L.A. to be completely sexless, by the way. Wow. I've said this before. No one's trying to smash anymore. What?

But I think in New York, they are and in L.A., they're not. I do find that. This is fascinating. Because I think in New York, when you go to a party, it's obviously I'm totally generalizing. And I love generalizing. It's like part of my job is a stand-up comedian. In New York, when you go to a party, even if it's an industry party, there's going to be people there that are in different industries,

like different walks of life, creative pursuits, things like that. Unlike here, sometimes when it's like a Hollywood party or something, it's like all these people who are so worried who's looking at them, who else is here, they're not really engaging with you because they're just like looking at who else is there. So it's harder to connect and like flirt and be like doing that thing of like, I want to have sex with you. Okay, I don't, this is not my experience.

Okay. Hey, I need to go to the parties you're going to. Maybe it's just me. Not currently. Not currently. But I do notice I try to pick up on like sort of the vibes and it just all feels very like there's walls up. I understand. People are trying to protect themselves and fame is so stressful and scary.

And so I understand there's like a lot that goes into it mentally. But I just find that I think New York people are more DTF. DTF. DT. Okay. Thank you so much. Yeah. So let me say this.

I haven't been out a lot because because, you know, I've got. got the kids, whatever, I'm in a different time. But, and I'm trying to remember, I mean, I go out more in New York because when we're there, sometimes the kids are here. And I went out with Sabrina one time. We went to this after party after a award thing because we've been at work and then we got off work. So we just went to the late part. And mostly we were just with each other, which was really fun. But there were some guys flirting with us in a way where I was like, what was happening? Like, I was scared. Do you know what? That's so fun though. Was that in L.A. or New York. Okay. In New York. In New York. Also, I do want to say I think it's changed with like cell phones and camera phones and all that stuff. Oh my God. Yes. People don't want to get like snapped. Of course. But I'm sure I think back in the day, like the brat pack and everything, people are definitely, you know. That's way back in the day. Trust me. Yes. But I do think there's just been a shift with the LA vibe of like just maybe being perceived a little bit too much to feel comfortable like flirting with someone that you just met. That's just my. That's just my. Let me ask you this. Do people ask for your phone number?

No. They follow you on Instagram. Oh, and then do they, do they DM you? Okay. Yeah. Well, that's, that's what they'll do that. But I think it takes a lot more guts to ask for someone's phone number in person than to DM them. So it's like, if they're DMing me, they're probably DMing 10 other people because it's like, it's very low risk, low stakes with DMing. But does that mean that you don't respond? I do. That's the problem is I do respond. Okay. And then I think, but then my mind, I go, well, they're probably just damming me. But I know in my, in my heart of hearts, they're DMing to other people too. But who cares? It depends what you're looking for. Well, that's true. It depends what you're looking for. But also, like, maybe if you then converse with them in person, it might ship things. That's the hope. That's that Charlotte. That Charlotte hope that I carry with me. Well, I'm glad you have the Charlotte hope. But I do think it is harder to make that step in real life, right? Totally. And I think it's only gotten harder because of the apps, right? But I'm not against people DMing. I'm not against that. I'll DM people back, but I have to know you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying. Yeah. So maybe that would be. But back in the day, when I was,

you know, younger and we were at the height of the, you'd go out. Oh my God. First of all, there was a lot of drugs. I wasn't doing them, but there were a lot of drugs. And second of all, I mean, depending on where you were, right? But, and the phones were there, but they weren't quite like how they are now, right? But also, there were just people were just flirty. My God. I I want. When I first moved to New York, it was 2012, and it felt like it was right before the apps just became like the only thing people used to meet people. And there was just this sense of like every night you went out, you could fall in love. Yeah. And maybe you don't. Maybe you meet someone and you kiss for five seconds on a dance floor and you never see them. You don't even learn their name. But there was this sense that like anything could happen. And I do think the romance of sex in the city just. really, like, created that environment. I'm just like, you just don't know. We didn't create it. For me, for me, you did.

We just, we, that was how it was, and we put it on screen. We didn't create it. No, God, no. But I think for a lot of young women watching the show, it felt like when you get to New York. That was your experience or your expectations. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry that it's not there. But it is more there than here.

Maybe it'll come back. I think it should come back. And I also think that some of it is finding, like, your group or your people, because I feel like in L.A. I'm not totally sure because I don't go out a lot, but I do feel like it's still happening, but you have to find a place where it's comfortable. Yeah. Well, I just, I mainly hang out with gay guys, so that's also part of my problem if I want to hook up with people, but I have the best time. They're really fun. They're the best. And they're going to protect you, which is nice. All right. Let's talk about the episode for a second. Okay. So my question that I

want to ask you, as someone who is open to people, when Alanis and Carrie Kiss, what? What were your thoughts? Well, since it's been the bottle, I feel like it's pretty innocent. You know, it's not like, it didn't feel like maybe this will change the trajectory of Carrie's life and she'll be open to dating women. No, definitely not. It sort of felt like, you know what it felt like to me? It was a woman who is open to being in the situation and she says, you know what,

this is just not the stage of life that I'm in anymore. And that's so fine and so fair. It's like you sometimes, I think dating younger can be so appealing because you've feel like, well, maybe then my life, it'll just feel like I'm young, too. Absolutely. But then there's elements where you just go, I'm actually past the spin the bottle phase of life. Most definitely. And that's just not where I'm at.

And I think to know oneself in that way to walk away is, that's like what, I think that's what feeling, I don't, I don't wish I was in my 20s because I'm self-actualized now or at least getting close. And I feel like that is a moment when the person would leave that you feel like, that's, If I was in my 20s, I wouldn't maybe try to shoehorn myself into this situation and make it work. But in your 30s, you just go, I'll meet someone else. Oh, definitely, definitely. I mean, for me watching, and I remember thinking this at the time, and I don't know if it was just me projecting because it was Alanis.

I was like, oh, I wanted that kiss to be better. Well, and sometimes you do think as a viewer, like, was it the actors or was it just the take they use or the moment? or was it propelling story? Right. Of just, like, how hard they go on the kiss. Right. For sure. It's always a thought.

Right. Because you know, these are actors. These are real people that are going, I'm kissing Alainas Morset right now. Most definitely. And Alainis Morset's going, I'm kissing Sarah Jessica Parker right now. Right.

But I think, I think Alanis is totally fine with that and very down and very open. I feel like because we also know the ending, right? There's always going to be that frame that you're probably picking the take that you felt walked the line of her being open. but her not being that into it. Right. But for me, as a viewer, I was like, give in more, babe, enjoy that kiss more. That's how I felt watching it.

Maybe Carrie's the Prude. That's what we're going to change the narrative. I like that. I like that. I like that. But I don't think we should call anyone a prude, though, because I felt so bad when they would say that to me for so many years, like every interview I would do, they'd be like, so you play the Prude.

And I'd be like, so insane. That's just, it's reductive. It is. And unfair. And then, like, at one point, I almost worried. this crazy Michael Korz dress to the Emmys because my representatives felt like people didn't perceive me as sexual. And I was like, okay, now I'm just exhausted. Do you know what the hell do I have to do here? And then my publicist. You're in a show called Sex and the City. Exactly.

But I was the prude in the show, Sex and the City, or at least that was the perception. But obviously, it all worked out. But like at the time, I remember my, my guy people wanted me to wear this, like, I think Mariah Carey ended up wearing it was like the PC dress, you know, the PC I know, I almost wore that. I almost wore that. I was scared to death, too. Michael wanted me to wear it. He's very sweet. Where I was like, how do you keep it on or whatever? Then Mariah wore it, which amen to her, right? But my female PR was like, you don't have to prove anything to anyone. You should look like a princess. Yeah. And that's nice. It was interesting. Yeah. But it's true. I didn't have to prove anything to anyone. But also you want to feel good and powerful, right? So what does good and powerful mean? But then all these other people were

telling me what they thought. Yes, so many opinions. But I'm not, I'm not unhappy with anything that I wore, so it all worked. That's good. That's, I mean, that's huge. That's huge. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at Lenovo.com. Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming, and performance that won't quit. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6E and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking.

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on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas plains, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to paper ghosts, the Texas teen murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The forces shaping the world's economies and financial markets can be hard to spot. Even though they are such a powerful player in finance, you wouldn't really really. know that you are interacting with them. And even harder to understand. Donald Trump's trade war, 2.0, is only accelerating the process of de-dollarization, which in a way is jargon for people turning away from the dollar. That is where the big take from Bloomberg podcast comes in, to connect the dots. How unusual is a deal like this?

Unprecedented. Every weekday afternoon, we dive deep into one big global business story. The biggest story of the reaction of the oil market, to the conflict in the Middle East is one of what has not happened. Katie, you told me that ETFs are your favorite thing. They are. Explain that. Why is that the case? And unpack what it means for you.

Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arness, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break prime time wide open.

I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story. From plening canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long way. On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderama, I'll take you in a journey to Desi's life. The moments it has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines,

waiting for a face like hours on screen. This is the story of how one man's spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Oh, Miranda! Let's talk about Miranda and Steve. Oh my gosh. Miranda and Steve. What do you want to say? I just, you know, I love Steve. Me too. From the bottom of my heart.

I really do. Me too. And I love how much he loves Miranda. Yes. And I love how much he fights for her. All the time. And I don't think we see that enough in real life or on TV. So true.

It's just a man that is fighting for his woman. because he sees her. I mean... And the relationship, fighting for the relationship. This is rare. This is my advice to any men who might be listening.

Nothing will turn your woman on more than you fighting for the relationship. Yeah. And that doesn't mean, like, you know, show up at the house uninvited. No, that's true. It doesn't mean be a stalker.

When she opens the door and he's there. But I'm like, God, that would just be so nice. I know. Well, he's just so present while she's going through her different, like, stresses.

Like, this and I don't want to drop things in front of you. And it's like, oh, it's so sweet and she's so good. But I also think Steve is a rare secure attached person, a secure attached male, securely attached male character. Whereas Miranda's avoidant. And I don't think we see, I mean, me, I've read one book on attachment theory. I'm like a psychologist. But I think we don't see that many avoidant women on TV. And I really appreciate, not that I'm that, I'm definitely the insecure attachment type. but I think it was just, it's nice to see that dynamic where she just is like constantly pushing him away and he's just like, no, and I want to move in with you.

I know. And they figure out how to cohabitate. And I think that's really beautiful. Obviously, that relationship takes a lot of different turns, but I just love him. I love him too. And at the time, I didn't appreciate it. I didn't fully understand how incredible he was at the time because I was never there when they were working really.

And then also I was like, what's going to have? I don't know. I didn't understand the trajectory. I mean, none of us did, I guess, because I don't even think our writers did. But I do love to look at it now with now that what we know. Because it actually does make sense. I know. It really does.

It does. But there's a lot of people out there who don't feel that way. And to them, I apologize. But you don't have to apologize. You don't know anyone anything. Well, I feel I do love like when people say, you know, we followed you and I didn't appreciate this. And now I do where I felt this way about this. at this time in my life and now I feel differently,

that's always so rewarding, right? Yeah. But then when people have the opposite of like, no, that would never happen. Then it's not rewarding. And then you feel sad that they, that they're not on the journey with you anymore. But they might rewatch it in two years

and change their mind. Good point. So I was, I said before we started recording, watching the show in a relationship in your 30s and watching the show single in your 30s, completely different experience. I was so smug when I had a boyfriend. I was like, I figured this out that they never,

they couldn't get there. They got there eventually, but I figured it out. And then when you're watching it single, you just go, I am these women. So, Marybeth, I just want to say to you, maybe I shouldn't say this on here, I want to say this to you, you are a complex person and you have a lot going on. Yes. You do not need to be doing some kind of preconceived, like, small life with the boyfriend that you have a quote figured out.

I don't want that. Right. Like, you shouldn't even be saying these words. Oh, I'm glad I'm not in either of those relationships now. Good. But it's just like when you watch it single in your 30s, it's just like that is, yeah, this is what the experience is. And it presents so many different things to the audience. You have a lot to give and you have a big career and you need to put your energy there. This is my advice. Good. I have nowhere else to put it. Good. I put it into my friendships, my family, my career, my dog.

That's fantastic. I totally approve. I totally approve of that good. I just don't want you to be thinking like that you failed or that. No, I think it's just like it's feeling more like I would love to. someone to watch sex in the city with. That loves it as much as I do. Well, for sure. And those people do exist. They're just had Adam Scott on. No, I had Adam Scott on. He's married. I know. And I'm happy for him. Right. Me too. Me too. I'm just saying at some point in his life, he wasn't. I don't know when he got married, but in his 30s, probably, do you know what I mean? So like, I'm just saying they're out there. Yeah. You know, don't settle in any way. If you are a straight man who loves sex in the city, my dams are open.

I love it. I love it. But the other thing is. And, you know, this is bad that I'm going to say it. But, like, sometimes you're not going to love everything that the other person loves, right? But that's okay. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Okay.

Okay. So Samantha's got this assistant. No memory of this storyline. Okay. And neither do I except rewatching. And I was like, oh, yeah, this is the guy that's like a macho sort of. I know. Weird.

Weird, right? But I love that the episode is, and this is what Sex and City does so well, it's the thematic nature of all the character storylines. Well, this is when we find. finally have that going. First season, second season, sometimes it clicks. Sometimes it didn't. Now we've fully got it and I love it. But what I did love that the crux of their storyline also because we have so many characters as you guys do on overcompensating. Also, you know, you have A, B, C, D storyline, right? So you always know that you might have D storyline this week and you'll have a better one next week,

whatever. But what I, my favorite part about that, and I don't know if you've ever related to this or whatever. So she's got this assistant. He's very cute. You see her at the beginning. She's like, I can't find a good assistant in New York. And then he walked in the door and she's like, oh, okay, I'll hire you. But he's very arrogant. And so he's like yelling at people on the phone. And she's like, we don't do business like that. You know, and he's like, I do.

So he argues with her. And then she eventually fires him and says, the good news is now we can fuck. And so then they kiss like in that frantic TV way that we did. And then she pushes him down on the desk. And he goes, we can fuck on the desk. And he goes, no, on the chair. And she goes, no on the desk. And then the voiceover says, and,

Of course, Samantha was on top. Like, that is a dynamic that I still find interesting with men about, like, who's in charge. Yeah. It definitely, I think, is still a huge, not problem, but it definitely comes up in relationships, sometimes in subtle ways, sometimes not. But it's like, if a woman wants to, you know, be in charge, quote unquote, then they're bossy. But if a man wants to be in charge, then he's just like, you know, being the man in their relationship. So I have had so many men call me bossy.

I have never been called bossy by a woman. So I just find that really interesting. Isn't it? And I love that Samantha, you know, say what you will. She's ethical. She's not going to have sex with her employee. Absolutely. She's not going to abuse power.

She's going to have sex with him when she fires him. Most definitely. I love it very much. I love it very much. And I also love just the whole that you want a strong man, right, theoretically or whatever. But then who's going to choose where you're going to have sex? Well, and then, you know, men are constantly saying like they want a strong woman, but then when you get in that situation, sometimes their actions prove otherwise.

Oh, I'm there. I'm there. I've been there many times, many times, many times. My ex, and I think I might have said this before, my ex at one point told me that I needed to stop telling the cab driver where to go. I had to wait. I had to get in the car in the back. This is pre-Ur, right? And I had to wait for him to get in the car and he could tell the cab driver where to go. And I was just like, this is really hard. It's just, it's the like nitpicking. And I was in a relationship where I would always, because, My mom is, like, very brash, and she is just in charge. She's always all the way we live in. My family is very matriacal. Even with six children. Six kids. And she had to run it like the Navy. I can only imagine.

I only have two. It's hard. I would walk into restaurants and I would say, oh, it's two for dinner, four for dinner, whatever it is. Right. I'd never picked up on that, ever. Right. It was just like, I'm walking in first and I'm telling the, I'm telling the hostess what is needed.

Why not? Why not? And that was commented upon as like every time we walk into a restaurant, you're the one saying. See, that is not the guy for you. Right? Now, I hung in with this relationship for a very long time where I did try to sit in the back of the cab and be quiet, but it's hard. And why should we have to do that? It's so weird. Why can't we just be equal partnership? It's an interesting thing to me. It's interesting how hard these things die. Like, they just won't, like they're ingrained, you know? I know. And it doesn't matter. It's also, it's across generations. And sometimes you'll meet someone who you think is so forward thinking, progressive. They really get it. Yeah. But then they'll still have these little hangups where you're just like, wow, that's just, I wasn't expecting that. Right. And why can't they work on it? What do you mean?

That's just never going to happen. I would love to find someone who's working on it because I'm working on it. I know. Because we're all working on it, right? And we're trying. I know. But yet you're also supposed to be, you know, have a great career and be doing all these things on yourself and, you know, blah, blah. It's very hard. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at Lenovo.com. Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming, and performance that won't quit. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors.

For the next era of gaming, upgrade to smooth high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6E and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends,

people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from him? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Boo, somebody had tomatoes.

I'm kidding. But if they had tomatoes, they would have thrown the tomatoes. let's be honest we've all had those moments we'd rather forget we bumped our head we made a mistake the deal fell through we're embarrassed we failed but this podcast is about that and how we made it through so when they sat me down they were kind of like we got into the small talk and they were just like so what do you got what what ideas and i was like oh no what check out not my best moment with me kevin on stage on the iHeart radio app apple podcast youtube or wherever you get your podcast The forces shaping the world's economies and financial markets can be hard to spot.

Even though they are such a powerful player in finance, you wouldn't really know that you are interacting with them. And even harder to understand. Donald Trump's trade war, 2.0, is only accelerating the process of de-dollarization, which in a way is jargon for people turning away from the dollar. That is where the big take from Bloomberg podcast comes in to connect the dots. How unusual is a deal like this? Unprecedented. Every weekday afternoon, we dive deep into one big global business story. The biggest story of the reaction of the oil market to the conflict in the Middle East is one of what has not happened.

Katie, you told me that ETFs are your favorite thing. They are. Explain that. Why is that the case? And unpack what it means for you. Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas planes, teens are dying.

Suicides that don't make sense. Strange accidents and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to Paper Ghosts, the Texas Teen Murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood,

a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arnest, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to people, break prime time wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story. From plenty

canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long ways. On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you in a journey to Desi's life. The moments it has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching

from the sidelines, waiting for a face like hours on screen. This is the story of how one man's spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama. That's part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. All right. Is there anything else that we should say, oh wait, this is the name. I love the name of the show that Charlotte is doing at the gallery. drag kings and the collision of illusion and reality. I love it. And I literally think that that

gallery is the same gallery we film in and then just like that. Oh my God. It's still there. Well, that's amazing that it's still there. I know. Thank God. Because Soho, the galleries are relatively unchanged. Yeah. Thank God. Thank God. They did not turn them into a store or whatever. Do you know what I mean? You know what I mean? Because you live there. Yeah. And then, I mean, I think Donovan is so adorable and good and like interesting. And the whole bigger sock thing. I'm just kind of amazed in a way that we did it, you know? And that that was like the foreplay for the artist who made me. It's good writing too.

And that's what's so fun, I think, as an actor. And I've talked about this because we do panels. We'll do screenings of what we're compensating. And then a panel and they ask questions. And it's like, it's such a gift as an actor to be given these complex characters to work within. And then it's like, it's thoughtful writing where you're like, this is fun to play. Absolutely. And it's fun to do it a few times, like, you know, as you imagine.

And then the director gives you an option. And it's like, there's just so much fun to be had. I agree. So much fun to be had. Now, when you looked at the, when you rewatch knowing that we were going to talk and you see the four of us talking about the bisexuality at the coffee shop, did you feel like we were very, very old school? Or did you feel like, no, that I understand why they would be like that?

I think when I rewatched the show, and almost every topic you're, you are talking about, I go, I understand why they had that approach to it. in the 90s or early 2000s. It's like it's about what, you know, the media you were exposed to, the people you were exposed to, how outwardly people live their lives. It's like there are so many storylines

that I think, even though if it wasn't handled the exact way that you would handle it today, it still put these stories in front of a huge amount of people. Right. That then say, oh, well, I saw a sex in the city episode about that where, you know, Samantha moves to the meatpacking district. And we're not saying everyone's represented perfectly

because they're not and that would be impossible to have that expectation. Yeah, we're going to get there. But I think it's, I just think it's great to even have the conversation. And maybe people watch it and they go, well, you couldn't say that today. And it's like, well, yeah, they weren't saying it today.

They were saying it when the show was made. It's true, for sure, for sure, for sure. And we didn't even have the knowledge. Obviously, you can't know where you're going to go. Like, Samantha in that scene, the coffee shop scene says that she's trisexual. She'll try anything, which is cute. And I love that. I know.

It's really cute. I mean, we wouldn't, we would say polyamorous now or whatever. I don't know. I like that scene because I do feel also. At the time, we're being very true to each character. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's what's so expertly done with the show.

It's like just, and I think the, the diner scenes are always my favorite, the brunch scenes. Really? Yeah, they're just like, it's just girls chatting and they're, they feel safe because they know each other so well. Definitely. They can say things that piss each other off, things that they wouldn't say in front of other people. They are so real with each other.

And that's true. Those are the relationships that I have in my life that I just value so much because I go, I could say something that I wouldn't post online, but I feel safe because I'm with my best friends. Of course. Of course. I mean, when I do watch them, they're so hard to film. And we would always be like, oh, God, the coffee shop's coming. And we had to have like every line like quick, quick, quick, quick. And we had to film it from every direction. Oh, my God. Yeah. And it would be like all day, all day, all the day. But when I watch them back, what I love is all of the behavior. Like there's so much interesting interaction between the four of us. Oh, and it's like, it's like micro movement.

It's like also, it's really, and as an actor, I think sometimes we don't even know that we're doing it when we're in the character, but then the editor picks up on it and you go, wow, that's, it is that scene when she's describing a pear-shaped ring. And also then Miranda has to admit that she helped him pick it out. And it's just so good. It is so good. Can I tell you something funny? I remember about that. At the time, you know, this was pretty much the height of the show in a lot of ways. And things started showing up kind of in like pop culture.

that we were like, what? And Gwyneth Paltrow was on the cover of Vogue or something, and she talks about that episode in there. Oh, my God. And we were like, you know, what is talking about the ring? Because she was like, I so relate to, you know, someone having the wrong ring or whatever.

It speaks volumes. I know, it was good. It was good. It was so good. All right, so wait, I have some things to say, Eddie Cahill, this was his first ever on-screen role.

Wow. The bisexual. Yeah. I liked also how they wrote him as just like an everyday guy. I know, and I love how he's dress. Yeah. And they're ice skating, which I had also no memory of. Yeah.

Like, she's ice skating with a cigarette in her hand. I know. With her natural curly hair. I loved it, loved it so much. And I don't really remember it at all, at all, at all. Oh, apparently, Sarah Jessica just talked about this episode with Howard Stern about kissing Alanis Morissette. She doesn't remember the scene because she doesn't like watching herself on TV.

This is true. Oh, my gosh. And then she said, it was a big deal. I do remember that. I don't remember a lot, but I remember that for a variety of reasons, I remember where we shot at me too. I remember that I was wearing, what I was wearing. Most importantly, and least surprisingly, it was just a huge deal that she agreed to do the show. Yes. And I do recall kissing her. It was very pleasant. It was very professional. We were both treated, we both treated, treating it as a contractual obligation. Sarah makes me laugh. An actor's actor. Exactly. It was very.

Nice. I don't actually recall feeling uncomfortable. I don't recall feeling embarrassed or self-conscious. She was lovely and she was all in. I have no feelings other than that than easy and buoyant. Okay. That's nice. Great reviews. I'm so glad. That's not what I remember, but I like it. Okay, Alanis Morse said on her kiss with Sarah Jessica Parker. What I remember is nerves. I just should be clear. I'm not remembering anything negative. I just remember nerves. It was like not something that everyone involved would be normally doing. Sarah, okay, wait, Alanis said this to the advocate. Her character was meant to be reticent, so the kiss itself has got this push, pull, uncomfortable energy to it. But can you imagine Carrie being in New York and not having questioned her sexuality? Good point, Alanis.

I love it. I love it. It's a good point because it was written very clearly that she is about to get up and walk away and say, not for me, that's just me. Which I also think is so important to know. Do you know what I mean? Oh, and she does have the very, very large...

Carrie Broach. I don't think it's the first time she's worn it, though. I think I already had seen, but it was smaller. Yeah. This is the big flower. Yeah. With the boots. Yeah. Oh, wow. That dress I'm wearing is theory. So we still don't have our budget. No offense. Theory. And apparently this is one of my most memorable looks. Who knew? I never know. Most memorable. People respond to a lot of things that are interesting. Yeah. Well, I think people really cling on to different stuff. And it is depending on where they are in their lives. Of course, where they are in their lives and also like the current style, like now, like all the 90s, 2000s stuff is like these are my very vintage Prada 2000s. Whoa. I just got a Jadour Dior T-shirt yesterday. Nice. Tank top at the Real Real. I've been on the hunt.

Fantastic. It's from 2003. You should, well, that's the time. It's fabulous. That's the time. Yeah. It's everything to me. Good purchase.

Yeah. They call it a grail. Yeah. And those are a grail for sure. Well, thank you. Prada cargoes. Hang on to those. Put those in the safe at home.

I have a large closet that's a mess, yes. Hopefully it has a lock on it. It doesn't, but the house does. Okay, good. So it's safe. It's safe. But, okay, wait, wait. I feel like there's so many things

that I might not have covered with you. Sometimes when I have to do the rewatch part, I'm like, it throws me off. Do you know what I mean? Well, you can always have me back. And if there was an episode, maybe it's too soon, though. I think whoever gets to talk about Matthew McConaughey

is that is one lucky guest. because what a wonderful performance. Totally. That was off book. He got to Adlib, which was unheard of, but no one could stop him. I remember also getting texted that day, and I can't remember if I actually went. I would get texts from Sarah. We had our original Blackberries, the tiny ones.

She wore it on her little belt. There are all these cute paparazzi pictures of her. She got it first. She talked me into getting it. We talked all day, even if we were together on the set. Do you know what I mean? Of course. Of course.

It's private. That day, because we were in L.A. where I had a house by that point, and McConaughey, like, jumping on the table, not in the script, do you mean? And she was like, he's at-limbing. What do I do? Because Michael Patrick was kind of against out-living. Oh, my God. But also, Vince Fawn ad-lib. But Vinspawn had John Favro come, and they were, like, writing at the chairs. Okay, interesting. Whereas McConaughey, you just didn't know what was going to happen. Such a fun stretch of episodes. I know, I know, I know. I was happy because we were here. But also, I do remember at one point, I don't remember the scene. but I, because I had my house, they, I was with them all, because Charlotte comes late to L.A., right? So I was with them all. And then they were like, okay, go home, Kristen, because we're not

going to get back to that group scene until I don't know what time. I went home. I went to sleep. They called me. I got back up at like 3 a.m. I drove back to the set in West Hollywood. I mean, that, no, no joke, Mary Beth. I mean, we worked till the sun came up all every day. Wow. Like, it's amazing that we are all functioning. And friends. Sometimes tensions can be high in those situations. Yes. Yes. Lack of sleep. I mean, that was all we did. So I think that was how we got to know each other so intimately. You know what I'm saying? Like we went through it all. But it was also our mission. Like, you know, when you have like how, I'm sure how you guys feel about overcompensating.

Like it's your baby. Yeah. It's a dream. You just want to make it as good as it can possibly be. That's all that matters. Yeah. I know. Okay. We did talk about are you a Charlotte. Yeah. So how often would you say you feel like, yes, all the time. Oh, okay. A few times a day. The hopeful part is present all the time. Oh, it's like, I really, every time I get really badly hurt, I think I can't do that again. I just need to protect myself more. But I also think there's a healthy approach of like, I do just want to put my heart on the line. Because I think even if it's not handled with care, at least I'm showing that person that like, yeah, we're still out here. And I love being sweet to people. I love going out of my way,

acts of service, things like that. And I'm like, at some point I'm going to be. meet the right person who loves that about me and they're going to celebrate it. And I think for me watching Charlotte navigate all of those relationships and all of the ones that don't end the way that she wants them to, it's like, yeah, we go through a lot as women who have hope and I'm never going to let that go. I just have to really embrace that side of me and go, well, I'm setting an example for you. Even if this feels intense to you or whoever's on the receiving end of it, I'm like, this is who I am. So if this is too intense, then we definitely shouldn't be together. Yes. This is who I am. And also, I think,

it's going to help them whether they're meant for you or not meant for you. I think it's good to be open. I think it's super important. And I love her design aesthetic as well. You do? The apartment. Yeah. I think. Oh my God. I saw your bedroom. I was like, wow. Old fashioned. I love that. I love it. I have a lot of furniture that I've taken from my parents' house. I have my grandma's desk. I just love that. Like, it feels very cozy to me. That's how my parents' house is decorated. So I'm very old fashioned in that respect. I think that's so great because when you, if you just saw your comedy, you wouldn't realize. No, and I'm like Darkwood. And that's very Charlotte.

Wow. It's very very Charlotte. And wallpaper. And I have a bed skirt. And not everyone can say that. Yeah, I saw a no. But Charlotte would have all of those things. I do have a lot of those things.

Not the Darkwood. Not the Darkwood because my house I grew up in had so much Darkwood. Yeah. Sometimes I've just felt like it was just falling on me. You know what I mean? But thank you so much for being here. My absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.

in the heat of battle your squad relies on you don't let them down unlock elite gaming tech at lenovo.com dominate every match with next level speed seamless streaming and performance that won't quit push your gameplay beyond performance with intel core ultra processors for the next era of gaming upgrade to smooth high quality streaming with intel Wi-Fi 6e and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. Lenovo, Lenovo. And she said, Johnny. The kids didn't come home last night.

Along the central Texas planes, teens are dying. Suicides that don't make sense. Strange accidents and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking, people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to paper ghosts, the Texas

teen murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day. My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day.

Stories that move markets. Chair Powell opened the door to this first interest rate cut. Impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world and how you think about your bottom line. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arnest. On the podcast star in Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you in a journey to Desi's life. how he redefined American television

and what that man for all of us watching from the sidelines waiting for a face like hours on screen. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. On an all new episode of IHard Radio's

Las Culturistas, Jennifer Lawrence is dishing. Jennifer Lawrence. Let's go! From her hilariously awkward run-ins with A-Lister's. I don't know what I was expecting, but he was just like, nice to meet you. To her unfiltered take on beauty treatments.

I'm so upset I think of the Botox before that. And a jaw-dropping reveal you won't see coming. I don't know if I can announce this, but I'm just gonna. Open your free IHeart radio app. Search Las Culturista and listen to the full podcast now. This is an IHeart podcast.