Are You A Charlotte? - I Want Candace... More with Candace Bushnell...

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Candace reveals her biggest regrets about Mr. Big! And, it's Big! How does a column become the biggest show in the world?! Candace and Kristin continue by digging into the real life people who inspired these iconic characters. Plus, Candace admits her own visit to the crab shack! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I loved my girls. I still love my girls. Come and join our girl gang. Listen to The Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi I'm Kristin Davis and I want to, are you a Charlotte? You guys, it's exciting. On the podcast today, we have none other than Candace Bushdell. Thank you for being with us. Oh, I'm so thrilled to be here.

We have so many questions for you. I mean, this is the original Carrie Bradshaw herself, her alter ego that she created many, many years ago. We're going to hear all about it. I want to take you back because honestly, there are things that I don't even know, because in the beginning of the show, I was just trying to like get through it. You know what I mean? Like figure out what was going on. We were filming like crazy.

It was a lot. I didn't ask you questions then like, why didn't we take Candace out to lunch and ask her a bunch of questions? But it was too hectic, right? So like for me, I have questions about how did you come to write the column for The Observer in the first place? Well, you know, it's so interesting because I'm doing this one woman show called True Tales of Sex Success and Sex in the City, which I've done. I actually just got back from doing it in Prague, the London Palladium, Budapest, and Zurich. And then I'm going to go to Copenhagen. Great.

I'm going to end up at Sony Hall in New York City on May 16th. So I want people to buy tickets. Of course. But it's so in this show, it really answers all of those questions. So it's really the origin story of Sex and the City, how I ended up writing it, how hard I worked to get there, why I invented Carrie Bradshaw and what happened to me afterward.

And I was really doing, you know, with the New York Observer, I was writing about women and relationships, sex and money, power and status in New York City all through the 80s for women's magazines. Got it. And in fact, I was writing about my Samantha, but she had different names.

Of course. So in like 1985, I think her name was Julie, and then she might've been Susan, and then she ended up being Samantha, but I kept changing her name, and she was one of those women who, she knew everything about men. Right.

Somehow, she just knew everything. Okay. And then I was writing for the New York Observer, and they asked me if I wanted to have my own column. So obviously I said yes, and it was Sex in the City, it had one foot in sex, one foot in society. And it was really pretty much the same as what I'd been writing in the 80s.

It was about women and dating and mating rituals in New York City, which are very heightened because everybody who comes here is really ambitious and they really want to make it. And so it adds another layer. It's all the alphas. Yes, exactly. All the alphas. And the difference was that it was in a publication that a lot of men read. So I think the audience for the New York Observer was like 65 or 70% men.

Wow. So that made people feel like, oh, it's much more important because it's in a publication that men are reading. And you know, as we all know, if men are doing something, it's very important. Oh my gosh. And if women are doing it, it's cute. Oh my gosh, how crazy. So this was a big deal for you. Yes. And if women are doing it, it's cute. It's how crazy.

So this was a big deal for you. Yes. And in general. In fact, when I got the column, I remember that moment and it was probably, maybe it was the end of October of 1994 and it was a warm day. and I like ran up Park Avenue thinking, this is my big break, this is my big break, because I've been writing for 15 years. Wow.

Since I was 19. Oh my gosh. And I just felt like this was gonna be my big break. And it was. And it was, and I remember all the doorman were like good afternoon you know somehow radiating off of this happy energy now when this is a hard question is there any part of you at that point who could have foreseen what was to come absolutely 100% no no mean, I don't think anybody could have foreseen it.

Right. No, me neither. And, you know, what I do know is people started reading the column right away because it was, you know, it was about people who everybody knew. Okay. So that was another question. That, yes. So you wrote something and like, and you would change the names? Yes, I would change the names, but I went out pretty much every single night with my notebook and I had these notebooks. They were this big and they were little spiral notebooks.

And they could, back then, they could fit in your handbag. Wow. So I... And you take notes? Actual notes? I took actual notes. And if it was like kind of uncomfortable, I would run to the bathroom and take notes. Wow.

So I would be in the bathroom like writing things down, like, you know, somebody said this, somebody said that. Yeah. And then I would get back the next day and I would look at all of the notes and construct a story out of it. And people would then know. They'd read it and they'd, would they know or guess or? Well, they would know or they would guess.

And you know, the reality is sometimes people came up to me and asked me to write about them. Wow. Like the story about the 20 something, the 20 something girls. The value of the 20 something guys, guys. Oh, okay. That was, all right.

So that was one thing, but then, and those were 20 something guys. Guys. Oh, okay. That was, all right. So that was one thing, but then, and those were two real guys. Wow. That I was hanging out with. Okay. And I was like, this is like, you know, the best material. But there was also one about the 25 year old girls when they go to the Hamptons. Yes.

But the Hamptons was really Staten Island. Yes. Which was like. Because we couldn't afford the Hamptons, but the Hamptons was really Staten Island. Yes, because we couldn't afford the Hamptons. Yes, exactly. When I pretend, Charlotte pretends to be 27 or whatever and then I get crabs. Exactly. Yes, crazy storyline. Yes, that was real.

Yes, but not the part about Charlotte getting the crabs. Okay, okay. But that, I mean, look, that's the kind of thing that happens. I had this, whatever, crazy roommate and she went, she was always having sex and she got crabs and we shared an apartment and guess what? Did you get crabs from your roommate? I did. Oh, that's bad.

Because they go on the towel. Oh, no. Nobody tells you that. No, no one does. Listen, people, this is some important information. That is crazy. I can't believe I just said that. That's probably going to end up.

It will be definitely interesting to people. But you know what, Candace? It's OK, because we're educating people. Exactly. Right? And this was a long time ago. Exactly. I don't even know if crabs still exist, but I'm sure they do.

Now, wait, go back to the real people part, because I do get asked this a lot Like who was Charlotte and in my mind Charlotte was an amalgam of different people, but I don't know if that's right Okay, so Charlotte is the one character who I Would say Darren really created that character Got it. That's what I thought. So, okay, you know all all of the other characters, there was a Miranda, there was a Samantha. One specific or different people that you know?

They were pretty specific. Got it. Like Samantha was pretty specifically one friend of mine, again, who knew everything about men. And I'm actually still friends with her. How great. And then the character of Miranda was like just this really ballsy, smart girl who she wasn't a lawyer, but she was somehow like in tech before anybody was in tech. So she was like really up on

Uh-huh. So she was like really up on things and she was just so... She always used to say to men, listen buddy, let me explain something to you. Cute. And funny. She just didn't put up with any guff. Got it. Did they know that they were the people that the characters were based on? Yes.

Okay. Kind of. Wow. Did they come to the parties and stuff? One of them might have. Maybe the Miranda character. Wow. Yeah, she probably did.

Okay. She probably did. I mean, I don't know if Cynthia knew that. I don't know that we knew this. I don't think we did. And she had short dark hair. Okay. Interesting. And she was really... She was just like super smart, this go-getter woman.

And then my friend, Samantha, of course, you know, the character's not really like her anymore at all. But she was really beautiful. And she just knew, you know, everything about men and men were crazy about her. So I always went to her for advice. Like, you know, what do you think about this?

The guy said this, what does it mean? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So she was really that. That's helpful. You know, that friend that you have who knows everything. Yeah. Now, let's back up to Darren a little bit. Darren, how'd you meet Darren?

Well, I met Darren because I wrote a story about him for Vogue. Because I actually had a column in Vogue. OK. Oh my god, I didn't remember this. So, you know, like Carrie, I don't know if she ended up having a column. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she did.

Right, she did. Right, she did. So, I had a column in Vogue and I also wrote stories for them. I did profiles. Got it. And, in fact, I just came across one that I did of Hugh Grant, which I was reading and I was like, God, this is such a great story. Yeah.

But he was very entertaining. He is very entertaining. God, this is such a great story. But he was very entertaining. He is very entertaining. Yes, he is. He was really interesting. He's very interesting. And Darren had come to New York to do Central Park West. Oh, right, right, right. So Vogue wanted me to do a story on him.

And I think we met in New York. Vogue wanted me to do a story on him. And I think we met in New York, and then I went to LA, and also he met the real Mr. Big, Ron Galati. So then the three of us were friends. Oh, got it. And Ron and Darren loved each other. That's funny.

And we used to hang out. And in fact, we rented a house in Aspen one year. Wow. So, and then I took Darren for the first time to the Hamptons. And this was probably in 1995. Oh my gosh. And I had just, I had just done a book deal for the columns Sex and the City to become a book.

So that happened after, I feel like I'd been writing it for maybe three or four months and a publisher said, I want to make this into a book. So I told Darren and he said, oh, I want to option it. Got it. So that all happened kind of bam, bam, bam. Yes, but then I don't think he actually did option it

until kind of a year later. And HBO wanted to buy it. And I had meetings with HBO and ABC wanted to buy it as well. Well, that would have been different. And yes, that would have been really different. And some movie companies. Oh, wow. I didn't take any of it seriously.

You didn't. No, I was like, really? Yes, I was very like, oh, I only want to write novels and win the Pulitzer Prize. Oh, my God. Adorable. So how did Darren convince you? Well, he we had the same agency, ICM, right? And HBO made an offer. And then my agent was like, you know what? I'm just going to ask Darren again if, you know, he

was serious about wanting to buy it. And he said yes. So I think he offered like a tiny bit more than HBO, which at the time seemed like, oh my God, a lot of money. And also, I just loved Darren's sense of humor. And when I was interviewing him, we went to the set of, maybe it was Melrose Place? Was it in Chatsworth?

You had to like drive far from LA? Yes, we had to drive far. It's like in the desert. It was in the desert. And one of the characters was like buried underground. Oh, we did some craziness. I don't know what that was, but yeah. It was so crazy. Yes.

And he was like laughing and he was like, isn't this the funniest thing you've ever seen? And I was like, yes. And I just thought this man has the best sense of humor. I agree. Yeah, yeah. And it hadn't really been used in his other shows. Yes. exactly. And so I was just thrilled to be working with him.

And then, of course, HBO and ABC still wanted it. Oh, wow. With Darren. Yes. Got it. Which, of course, makes it even more attractive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Having a showrunner like Darren is incredible. And he wanted to go with HBO because he wanted some freedom. Yeah, he'd done the CBS show.

And I don't think any of this is a secret. I think he's talked about that he wasn't thrilled with it. So he wanted something different. And also HBO was brand new really in terms of making original content. So it was kind of like a freedom, like a free playground. Yes, and it was their second show after R-List. Right.

And wait, Dream On, don't forget Dream On, R-List and Dream On. Oh, I don't remember Dream On. Dream On was a strange show. I'm the only one who remembers it. It was a show with this guy, Brian Ben Ben, I believe his name is. Do you remember this?

I never named Brian. Every week there was nudity. There was female nudity every week. This is partly why we were all so nervous our first season. About what is this and whose perspective is it from and who is it for? Well, they did. They definitely pushed those boundaries.

I mean, even more than because, you know, sex in the city was published in a newspaper. Right. So it was how much detail could you put in there? And also, one of the things that we decided was, we don't want it to be about plumbing. Like we don't want it to be about actual sex because... Right. It's like, right, right. What are you gonna say? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. You know, like everybody knows, like, I have sex. For sure, for sure. So it was like all of the things that went around sex. And then when it was on HBO, I mean, it could be quite specific. And also when I started rewatching it when it was on Netflix,

I was like, I forgot how much sex everybody was having. I'm with you, I'm with you. I mean, Charlotte was having so much sex. The prude. Yes, the prude. Prude on earth. I'm with you. I'm with you. You know, I mean, Charlotte was having so much sex. The prude. Yes, the prude. I'm busy. Really like Samantha. I know.

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on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's certain things that I... Sometimes I'm like, I need to go back and read the book, because I remember reading your book when Darren sent me this script. So I read the script first and then I went and read the book. And then I was like, whoa, the book is a lot, right? Because it had just much more, maybe less specifics,

but more storylines, not really Charlotte so much. But it was, with the column and the book, every week was a totally different column with different characters and different people. Got it, got it. So, you know, that, and sometimes people read the book and they're like, it doesn't make sense. It's like, okay.

Yeah. Because it was a little different. Right, right, right, right. But it was a different time too. But like in the beginning, because remember, I don't know if you remember, we did the whole, we did the pilot, then we had to wait kind of a long time. Yes, a year.

Right? Right? Yes. Get picked up, which was bizarre, but whatever. And then we got picked up, we did the whole first season without it airing, which was interesting. Oh! Yeah, it hadn't aired. Now that's kind of normal with streaming, right?

But back then, very unusual. So, but wait, I thought we shot the pilot in 1997. We did. And then we waited till we got picked up in 1998. Then we filmed really quick. Yes, because that's what I remember was that summer. And I think it started filming in the spring. Yeah, we would always come in the cold.

Yes. And have to pretend like it wasn't. Yes. And we filmed for like all of three months or something. We did all of it really, really fast. Yes. It came on the air fast. Yes, exactly.

No one had seen a thing and we were just like, we like, are we funny? Are we sexy? Well, what are we doing? Right. sexy? What are we doing, right? But when I started watching back and I always felt like the first season was kind of a mess in terms of I'd come from, you know, spelling was like a very much,

not a factory in a bad way, but like it was a very set medium. Right. Very structured medium that Darren definitely changed and juiced up and made younger and exciting. But like there's a scene, there's a storyline in the Modelizer episode. Yes. Was that a real storyline that was in your column? I mean, this was something where we would call the police now. You know what I mean? Do you remember this guy is filming

the models from the magazine ads? That's real. Now, okay, so get to... How did you know about this? How did this happen? Well first of all, like the modelizer story is real. And in the first season, they took a lot of stuff, a lot of the stories from the book. That's what I thought.

But they get changed around. And even in the first, actually the first two seasons, a lot comes from the book, which I recognize because I know kind of where everything came from. But it was just going out and doing research and getting people to tell me stories. So people love to tell you their stories. I don't know if this happens to you where people come up to you and they're like, oh, this is the show.

It does. You know, Kristen, let me tell you about this thing that happened to me. And you're like, okay. Right, right, right. But like someone told you, did someone tell you, I do this? Did the person himself who was filming these models secretly tell you this?

Or did you just hear about it? Probably. Got it. But also filming people while you're having sex with them is not a new thing. I know it is, it used to be like without consent is bad. Yes, it is, it is bad. But you know what people, I remember when I first came to New York, people were doing

that in like 1978. Yes. Like with a big camcorder? No, they had like hidden cameras, hidden cameras in their apartments. I mean, look, these are really, really rich men, which we know they don't always follow the law. Right. So that wasn't really a totally new thing, but yes, that was, there was a guy who was filming

his encounters with, you know, with models. God. Because the thing that's interesting when I look back on it, I hadn't remembered that at all. There's so much that I don't remember about the first season and Carrie, you know, she goes over there and he's like, you've got to see my masterwork, my work of art. And he gets all, has all those old TVs.

It's very creative. And then the different models, you know, show up and he's having sex with them and you know, she likes a cigarette. Like she's very unjudgmental, you know? There's not judgment or horror. Well, it was a different time also. Yes.

I mean, we, you know, there are a lot of things that, you know, women just kind of sucked it up back then. It's true. I mean, not literally, but you know. Yes. I mean, it's, and things have changed so much. And it actually makes me really, really happy. Yeah.

And it is partly because of Sex and the City, because Sex and the City, you know, it's it has made women so much more aware and emboldened. Just talk. Emboldened and given them a new way to look at their lives. Right. And, you know, now when I, you know, I talk to young women, I'm still covering dating for whatever reason.

I love it. Which is, it's great. Is not so great right now for anybody. For sure dating's hard, but I'm glad that you're covering it. Yes. That's helpful. Yes. But, you know, women have just,

they've just changed their attitudes so much. And now I hear a lot of women saying, you know, we don't even think heterosexual relationships are so good for us anymore, which is something that you would never have heard in the mid-90s. There was no woman who would ever say, you know, I question the validity

of the heterosexual relationship and being secondary to a man. It was kind of a given. And now women really, they don't accept that. I think that's amazing. I think it's great. And I think it's amazing. Wow.

So it's so great because this is one of the reasons I wanted to do the podcast is because I feel like the storylines and the writing and the subject matter is still so relatable. And some things have changed, but some things haven't. And being able to look at those things, you would think more things would have changed. And some haven't changed at all. And then some, like what we're talking about in terms of women, have changed. And I think some of it is because we pulled the lid off just talking about it. Like just talking about it is so powerful. Yes, it is.

Because if you're not talking about it or feeling free to talk about it, how are we ever going to figure stuff out? Are we ever going to know all the things that are going on or all the choices that you have or what it might be like to make these choices or Make these choices. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Absolutely I mean, absolutely. Okay, so let's get back to the real people for a second because I get a lot of questions about this I'm sure you do too. So so there's a real Miranda Obviously a real mr. Big and a real Samantha and then not a real me Which I kind of knew because no one knew what to do with me in the beginning, which is totally fine. And Michael Patrick says that when he came on too,

he was like, I don't know how to write for that one. And then Jenny Bix came, who grew up on the Upper East Side, and she did know how to write for me. So that helped kind of give me something more, like a through line that made sense, I guess. And also, I mean, that's how it often is when a TV show starts. You know, you don't really know, right? Exactly. So as you were watching the show develop,

what were your thoughts on how Darren and company were writing? You know, honestly, I always loved it. Oh, good. I always thought the show was, first of all, funny. Yes. And, you know, the column was, is funny. And you know, the humor is something that, for me, it's like unavoidable.

I want to try to write seriously, but there's always this sort of deep humor that comes across. And that really came across in the series. And also. You know, it was a time like in the 90s when women were a little bit badass, you know, it was it was it was like, you know, we rule this town and we don't have to put up with, you know, what men say because we're, you know, we have each other's backs and we're a little group

and there's power in this friendship. And the friendship part is so real and so important in New York City. Because that is a real thing in a city where there are actually more women than men. And it's like, if you don't have female friends here, you're gonna have a very hard time surviving. Right, and I do think that is what really has resonated

over time with the show. Yes. And thank God, you know? And I know there were different people who felt different ways at different times of the long trajectory of Sex and the City about whether people should have gotten married or should not have gotten married, et cetera.

I get that. But I also feel like we've now been through so many phases and the remaining thing is the bond. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

And, you know, no, I always loved the show. Oh, good. I thought it was fantastic. Good. I didn't know for sure. I didn't know for sure. Oh, yes. No, I always did.

I didn't know. I didn't know for sure. I didn't know for sure. Oh, yes. No, good. I always did. I didn't know. I didn't know if it was weird. Like, like when you said so this was your, you know, you're kind of almost like, you know, research thing that you were doing for years and years and years where you're out and you're taking notes and you're studying people and you know these people and you're hearing stories and everything. And then all of a sudden it gets kind of taken over here,

you know, into a TV show. I didn't know if that was weird. You know, people always ask that question. Yeah. And, you know, for me, no. Good. It was never, you know, it was never strange or, I mean, maybe there would be some things that I know.

I mean, honestly, there was never anything that was strange or uncomfortable for me because I was always writing, you know, I mean, I've had like a lot of New York Times bestsellers. Right. So you had your own career. And writing novels and you know, and I had an opportunity to be on TV

and like have my own TV show and all of that. This is the VH1 thing? It was VH1. I had that this show on VH1, which I think was like one of the first reality shows. Right, which is crazy. Which is kind of crazy. Yeah.

And then I was, you know, then there were people who always wanted to make the real life version of Sex and the City, which was interesting. And I was like, no, why? Right, right, right. Because there's already a TV show that's... For sure.

Amazing. Right. And then I was on another reality show and the fact is, I just hate that sitting around. Yeah, there's a lot of sitting around. It's just, I was like, I couldn't. And then even when I had that show on VH1 and I had to sit in front of the mirror for two hours.

Oh, it's the worst. I was like, this will turn you into a narcissist. It could. I think it can do numerous things, right? It can turn you into a narcissist. It can also exacerbate all of your insecurities that you ever had in your life, right? And maybe those are the two same things.

I don't know, but it is rough to have to do that. I was like, I can't do it. It is rough. I can't do it. I can't look at my face for two hours. It's hard. It's really, really hard. It's really, really hard. The podcast that takes you straight into the heart of K-pop. We're talking music reviews, exclusive interviews, and deep dives into the industry like never

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So wait, let's go back for a second. Okay, so Darren's got the show and it's getting, first we were small as you remember, and then it grew and grew and grew. You're over, still doing your writing, doing different things. You've got different things going on. So you weren't, like, focused on the show necessarily. No.

Okay. I mean, in fact... Well, they used to send me the DVDs. Or the VHS before that probably. No, they were VHS. Yeah. They were VHS. They would send them to me on Wednesday.

Right. And, you know, I would watch it like, oh, it's going to be good. And then I always thought it was great. Okay, good. And then people would watch it on Sunday night. Sunday. Yep. And be really excited about it.

And I just thought, you know, I had a book that was turned into a TV show. So, and I mean, it was really like the first two seasons, I wasn't, you know, I guess it was a hit, but it wasn't a big hit till third. Yes, exactly. I mean, that's when I felt myself like, what? Yes. I mean, it was like after the second season that it felt like it really took off. And in fact, I actually thought it was going to be over

when Mr. Big dumps Carrie and marries somebody else. Because that happened in my real life. Oh, did it? Yes. I know. I really, there was a time when walking around New York, people would be like, the real Mr. Big did this and that. And I just feel like I can't deal with that because we have to deal with our fictional selves.

Right? Exactly. So there's a time that I tuned it out. So I didn't really know how it played out. Yes. For you personally. Yes. So that happened in real life.

And that's, and I thought, oh, that will be like that, that'll be the end. The end. Got it. You know, it's like it's told the whole story of Carrie and Mr. Big, and he ends up marrying somebody else, which is like such a New York story. Yes. And so I really thought that would be, that's the end of this series.

Got it. And then it kept going. And it's still going. I mean, it's just really incredible. Isn't it incredible? I agree that it's incredible. I mean, we're so lucky to be able to keep going with these characters, I think. And we're so lucky to have the writing that we've always had and to have the characters

that you started because nothing would happen without that. You know, like characters and writing is the whole thing. I mean, people talk about actors and I understand actors are where you're looking at, but if you don't have the material, it's not going to succeed. You know, there's almost nothing you can do to succeed. You can be super charismatic and it's still not going to work. You know what I mean? Yes. Yeah, I mean, I do always say it like it has to be on the page.

If it's not on the page, it's not going to work on the screen. I agree. I mean, it might work for a second. You know what I'm saying? But it won't work over time. So in the real life, when... So Mr. Big, previous to him marrying someone else on the show, which I didn't really, I wasn't aware of the parallels still happening with life, were you happy with how they developed Mr. Big and Carrie?

How did you feel about that? Cause it's very interesting to look back on it, I think. You know, it is. And at the time, I didn't think about it that much. It seemed natural to me. But now with all this social media, a lot of people question it. And, you know, I mean, I mean, in, you know, in real life. You know, the real Mr. Big was he was a, you know, he was a great guy,

but he was also a very powerful man. He was a great guy, but he was also a very powerful man. And powerful men in New York City at that time were really a specific breed. They threw things. They threw phones, they threw this, they threw that. So in some ways, Mr. Big was even softer than the real deal. Cause I don't remember him throwing a phone. No, he didn't throw a phone.

But in real life, I think the real Mr. Big had thrown a phone and it ended up in page six. Wow. Of course. Wow, wow, wow, wow. But he was actually a great guy. And I was really in love with him. And, but it just, we were in just totally different places. Like he was winding down.

He actually left New York. Right, I heard. And went and lives and still lives in Vermont. I heard. And now when I look at his life, I'm like, why didn't I go for that? I could have been living on a farm in New Hampshire, Vermont with horses.

Well, now I think I would. Interesting. Okay. Now that I'm like old, I'm like, I could do that. That is so interesting. Oh, how we change. Yes. But I don't know if that's really true. Okay. But it's an interesting fantasy. It's an interesting fantasy.

It's a fantasy. Cool. I had heard that about him, which I did think was also super interesting. Yes. And also, when I look back on the book, I realized he was looking for a very serious relationship. He wanted to get married.

And I was so not there. Got it. OK. He was saying things like, oh, we wanted to get married. And I was so not there. Got it. I mean, he was saying things like, oh, we should have a baby. And I was like, no way. Yes. That's interesting. So I don't think we, we didn't put that in.

We don't have that. No. Wow. Very fascinating. So that, you know, so that, you know, so in the, I mean, it followed a trajectory, but I feel like in the first two seasons, it was pretty... It was pretty realistic.

Okay. Okay, good. That's good to know. I wonder what I'm watching it. I think in terms of like, you know, the way Carrie was, like even when she goes to the church to see his mother. Right. It's like, you know, that was the kind of stuff that we did back then. Right, I know.

It's kind of adorable. I mean, it's, yeah. It's now, when I look back on it, it's like, I don't even know how we did that. But I mean, there was like a guy I was in love with when I was 20 years old, and I used to go and sit on a park bench in front of his building and wait for

him to come home. I mean, come on! So cute and funny! Oh my God, like nobody would ever do that. Well no, we wouldn't have to. We would stalk them on Instagram or TikTok or whatever. Exactly. Right.

But you don't have to go in person. It's like, you know, it's like, yeah. I mean, so I get it because I feel like I was, you know, have to go in person. It's like, you know, it's like, yeah, I mean, so I get it. Because I feel like I was, you know, a sad girl. Yeah, yeah. It was like, I'm going to get this guy. I'm going to show up and he's going to fall in love with me. Well, nowadays, it's like that will not work, but it won't.

No, that's what these experts on TikTok say. The men. Really? The men. The men. Okay, what did the men say? They say things like, don't approach a guy in a bar. What? Yes, because it's such odd behavior that the man will immediately think that you are, you know, unhinged.

This is bizarre, is it not? This is bizarre. And this is another change that is fascinating. Yes. Who would have seen this coming? Never because I remember we used to go up to men in bars all the time. Right and I thought that was a good thing. Yes it was. Yeah. So weird. See that's a weird and interesting thing too because like in some ways we're talking about women who are, I don't know, older, questioning, you know, the validity of a heterosexual relationship. Then on the other hand, we have men on TikTok saying,

don't approach a man in a bar because they might think you're crazy. Like it's a very weird dichotomy going on. It is. It's wacky. It is. There's been a lot of, it feels like there's a lot of separation between the sexes.

Which is sad. Yes. In a way that there wasn't before. And I also see a lot of women on these dating reality shows, if the guy voted Republican, they ain't ending up with him. They're like, no. I don't watch any of those shows because I find them depressing, but anyone who might be on the shows, listen to Candace because she knows what she's saying.

Okay? I know nothing about that. Now, let me get back on track. I have literally so many questions for you and then we have to think about the actual episode, right? Yes, yes. But this is so cool. So let's just go back to where we were in terms of the show and third season when it hit big, right?

When we got nominated for the Emmy, which we never believed would happen. I remember Darren and I used to make jokes first and second season about how maybe one day we would get nominated for a Cable Ace Award. Something that they got rid of real quick, do you remember? Because Cable became like the prestige, you know, content provider, right?

And then suddenly one morning, we get the call that we have been nominated for an Emmy. It was insane! See, it didn't seem strange to me. No? No, okay. Because I was like, the show's brilliant. I always thought the show was brilliant.

I did. Got it. That's brilliant. I always thought the show was brilliant. I did. Got it. That's good. Good for you. So I thought it seemed very normal. But you know, I wasn't a TV person. You didn't come from the TV world. I didn't come from the TV world.

So for me, it was like, oh, of course I got nominated for an Emmy. But I remember I was staying at Darren's house during the Emmys and he was like, oh, we got nominated. You know, you're going to go. I didn't get to go. I had to sit in the HBO room. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and then I could go to the parties afterward.

But they're the best part. But yeah, it was like, it was really exciting. It was exciting. I mean, it was exciting for us because I don't think that we thought that it would ever happen, right? And I think that we thought that it was fine. I think that we thought we would be like a little cult hit, you know, like Larry Sanders, right? Like that type of like beloved in the industry, maybe, but not widespread. And then, you know, the fact that people cared and were so invested.

Yes. Just so amazing. Really invested. And I remember at the New York Observer, them saying to me, I guess it was like maybe it was like the when the third season started, them saying like, you know what, now, Sex and the City has made being single really, really cool. Wow. Being single in your 30s and everybody's watching it.

And I was like, wow, that's great. It is great. And I mean, wish it were still true. Because I still feel like people just have this desire to couple everybody up. You know? That's great. It is great. And I mean, wish it were still true. Ha ha! Because I still feel like people just have this desire to couple everybody up. You know? Don't you feel? I mean, even though I think women maybe have more choices, I think like society at large

is always like, why are you single? Why are you single? Why are you single? Well, you know, now there are more and more single women. Which is great. I think it's like 51% of the population. No way. Yes, 51% of women over 18 are single.

That's amazing. Yes, and it used to be 43% in like 2012. Wow. So it's increasing and it really is increasing amongst young women. So it's really the young women who I see on social media who are questioning like, you know, what am I getting out of a heterosexual relationship?

You know, I'm doing all this work. Yes. He's kind of disrespectful. He's cheating on me. Oh no. And he's not treating me the way that I want to be treated and I'm super stressed and I just don't want to do that anymore.

I think that's amazing. I wish I had asked those questions in my 20s for goodness sake. I know, but we couldn't. No. No, we had had asked those questions in my 20s, for goodness sake. I know, but we couldn't. No, no, we had to toe the line of, you know, a relationship is going to save us. I mean, I don't even know if I thought it was going to save me. I just felt like I was supposed to do that. You know what I mean?

And I just also like when I look back at the shows from first season, Mr. Big is so aloof to Gary. And she is so adorable and trying so hard and trying different things. You know what I mean? And she's kind of trying to hide herself. And then at one episode, she talks about like, I don't even show him my real self.

Exactly. And it's such a great, great episode because, you know, she's amazing. Of course she should show him her real self. She's unbelievable, right? And obviously that is also just maturity. It's a conversation you have with yourself at a certain point of like, if I'm actually going to be with someone, I need to actually be my authentic self, obviously. But it was so great because, and he would do that thing where she would try to get him to talk, like, for, like, the whole beginning of the first season.

And he would evade, evade, evade. But then his actions, like, he'd... She says, I want to stand alone with you, you know, stand still with you in the city of seven million people or whatever it was back then. Um, and he's like, oh, you're in the back and I'm in the front of the park. He complains and complains, but then he stands still with her under the moonlight. Do you remember this? Like his actions kind of give her what she wants

or some hope. Yeah. I think today it would be called bread crumbing. Oh, bread crumbing, oh my God. Yes! You are so right. These little bits. I mean, I think like in today's dating landscape,

if you look at their relationship in those first couple of seasons, you know, I understand it's hard to look at that relationship through today's lens because he is so aloof and he is so non-committal. Yeah, yeah. And she is trying to turn herself into whatever she thinks the man wants. Right.

Which is what women did back then. Women were told to turn yourself into what the guy wants. Right. And that's how you will get him. And you know, there are still some women out there on social media who are saying, just, you know, like become what he wants. I mean, some of it never goes away, I think. You know, and I don't even know what's happening

with this trad wife situation, but like that, like what is, what on earth? You know what I mean? I mean, we've got some women questioning the validity of a heterosexual relationship, and then we've got tradwives. Yes, crazy. And the thing that's so interesting to me

is also there's this huge interest in romance, like romance novels, and now it's romantasy. It's basically a romance with something out of a fantasy. Like a dragon? Like a dragon. Okay, okay, okay. Exactly. Game of Thrones.

Thank you very much for that. And then at the same time, there is a real movement also of women saying, you know, I'm not going to do what society is telling women to do. But at the same time, like the romance is bigger than ever. So it's really this dichotomy. It's very fascinating and strange. I wonder what's gonna happen.

We never know. Don't ask me. I know, I know. I'm all gloom and doom. I'm like, no, don't gloom and doom. No, no, don't gloom and doom. I't, no, no, don't gloom and doom. I mean, the end might be coming, but let's not think about it if it is. Exactly.

So, Candace, thank you for being with us this whole week. Two episodes of Candace Bushnell. Yay! That's fantastic. Candace has been so great to take us back to the beginning of the show and also to remind us that she has written and is performing a one-woman show also about writing the column and the book that became Sex and the City and it is called True Tales of Sex Success and Sex and the City the tour and she's been all around the world with this tour congratulations thank you it's amazing and it's coming to New York yes it will

be at Sony Hall on May 16th awesome that's amazing and it's coming to New York in the spring. Yes, it will be at Sony Hall on May 16th. Awesome! That's amazing and congratulations on all of your, so many New York Times bestsellers and everything that you do. Oh, thank you. You're welcome. Yo, K-Pop fans, are you ready? It's your boy, Bum-Han, and I'm bringing you the K-PAC-ter, the podcast that takes you

straight into the heart of K-pop. We're talking music, idols, exclusive interviews, and even the real behind the scenes K-pop stories. Plus, you're the fans, you're part of the show, and you can get a chance to jump in, share your opinions, and be part of the conversation like never before. And trust me, you never know where we might pop up next. So listen to the K Factor,

starting on April 16 on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This isn't just a podcast, it's a K-Pop experience. Are you in? Let's go. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Sam Mullins, and I've got a new podcast coming out called Go Boy, the gritty true story of how one man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable. Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted. Has spent 24 of those years in jail. But when Roger Caron picked up a pen and paper, he went from an ex-con to a literary darling. From Campside Media and iHeart Podcasts, listen to Go Boy on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm ready to fight. Oh, this is fighting words.

Okay, I'll put the hammer back. Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a bestselling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back. Part of the power of Black queer creativity is the fact that we got us, you know? We are the greatest culture makers in world history. The power of black queer creativity is a fact that we got us, you know? We are the greatest culture makers in world history.

Listen to Fighting Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The number one hit podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new, The Girlfriends Spotlight, where each week you'll hear women share their stories of triumph over adversity. You'll meet June, who founded an all-female rock band in the 1960s. I might as well have said, we're going to walk on the moon. But she showed them who's boss. They would rush up and say, not bad for chicks.

Come and join our girl gang. Listen to The Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.