Are You A Charlotte? - Insta Graham Official with Heather Graham... (S2 E18 “Ex and the City”)

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

Fun fact Heather Graham appears in an episode in season 5 but today she is here to discuss her favorite episode of the series! The Austin Powers and Hangover star explains why she’s always rooting for Steve, and always frustrated by Big. Plus, Heather reveals the unexpected celebrity she watched Sex and the City with back in the day!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years, until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls, came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And to binge the entire season ad-free,

subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only, Cardi B. My marriage, I felt the love dying. I was crying every day. I felt in the deepest depression that I had ever had. This shit was not given to me. I worked my ass off for me.

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old. And a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? Listen to heavyweight on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Introducing IVF disrupted, the Kind Body Story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. It grew like a tech startup. While Kind Body did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patience. You think you're finally like in the right hands. You're just not. Listen to IvyF Disrupted, the Kind Body Story, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In the 1980s, modeling wasn't just a dream. It was a battlefield. It's a freaking war zone. These people are animals. The Model Wars podcast peels back the glossy cover and reveals a high-stakes game where survival meant more than beauty. Hosted by me, Vanessa Gregoriatis, this is the untold story of an industry built on ruthless ambition. Listen to Model Wars on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte?

Hi. Welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? I love my guest today so, so much. It is Heather Graham. She's an incredible actress. She was on the show, Sex and City, in the fifth season. But mostly she's on the show today because she's a super fan. And she has so many thoughts and feelings. And I have loved her work for so long. She was in to name just a few, drugstore cowboy, boogie nights, Austin Powers. I mean, the hangover. I could go on and on and on. Her career has been fantastic and she is a joy. And this particular episode is a thrilling episode. It is called X and the City. It's the end of season two. It aired October 3, 1999, which sounds like I'm making that up, but no. And the funny thing about this one is it's written and directed by Michael Patrick King, who then, you know, went on to write and direct the movies and just like that. And we love him very much. And I think it might be one of our best all-time episodes. I agree. I think it's my favorite episode ever. I think so, too.

I was re-watching it. And one of the things about re-watching, which is interesting, is that, of course, when you're in something, you have your own memories, which you might have to do with what was happening behind the scenes that day or, you know, different things, right? So I remember pieces of this episode, and I didn't remember that they were all together in one episode.

Well, I think it's really interesting we're talking about this today because of Robert Redford. I know. You know, and the way we were, I mean, that way we were seen at the end where you talk about Hubble and all that stuff. And he just died. And, of course, what an iconic, amazing person. I know. An iconic, amazing person.

And I have to say, I have so much, I take so much comfort from the fact that he was 89 and he died in his sleep. No, he had a wonderful life. Look at all the incredible things he did. I know. What a leader. Yeah. I mean, like, for us, you were roughly in the same decade of California. category of age.

You know, that was who we looked at as like... He was probably one of my first crushes. Harrison Ford, Robert Redford, yeah. Right. That was my first film I ever saw. My mother took me. No. No.

Butch Cassie and the son-in-his kid. I was four years old. She took me to the theaters because no one thought twice about this stuff. Lucky. I was not allowed to see like an R-rated or PG-rated me. I mean, I don't even, everyone's getting killed and I'm just sitting there. But I was so, it's such a beautiful, beautiful film to live. look at. Yeah, it is. And I was so enthralled, of course, with both of them. Paul Lumen, Robert

Redford, my God. And just the beauty of the film, I was, like, fully, you know, it's a classic. In love in every way with filmmaking, you know, and the power and their eyes and their souls. Yeah, yeah. Well, I feel like the Exxon City is one is a classic episode, too. I mean, when I go back and rewatch, because sometimes whenever, like, for me, it's like a comfort and also it relates to a time of my life as well. But I watch those episodes and there's something about it that's so uplifting and inspiring. And that's one of my most inspiring episodes.

Oh, I mean, really, when I watched it, I had chills many times when I rewatched. And I mean, I remember, of course, Carrie and her white dress outside the plaza because it's a very iconic image and it was so beautifully filmed. Yeah. But I had forgotten all of the other little details

I'd forgotten about the scene. We're going to get to it in the pink dress in 11 Madison. which is so good. I had forgotten that my horse riding was in that episode. I remember my horse riding through Central Park. Was that really you? Yeah, well, not the galloping. I guess it's really a canter.

But I did ride. I did ride. I had to go to Staten Island for horseback riding lessons, which was a whole trip. Lucky. That must have been fun, right? It makes me think of the Staten Island episode. That's true. That's true.

But it didn't seem like this, it wasn't that Staten Island. It was a different Staten Island where I was like, is anyone going to be able to find me and come get me? It was more like that. No, no offense. So it wasn't fun. Okay. I mean, it was fun because there were horses involved and I do love horses.

Yeah. But it was more like that kind of part where you go to a part of New York State and you're like, I had no idea that this existed. It was like that. It was like that. But I got to ride a horse and then we went to the Claremont horse stables, which now have been closed down. But it was the weirdest, crazy is where we're filming in the episode.

there was like a horse elevator because it's basically a building of horse stalls from the turn of the century that they finally had to close down because it just wasn't safe for the horses, right? Because there was too many horses in there and they're on this rickety horse elevator

that you can see in the background of that scene with Sarathezka and I know. And then people would keep their horses there and ride their horse out into Central Park. Like if you've ever been in Central Park and see someone ride by it? It's so crazy, isn't it? stable. Yeah, but now that stable is closed. So I don't know where they're coming from now.

It's really interesting. The horse image at the end to me was such a beautiful thing that expressed to me what was so inspiring about the show was like this horse that can't be tamed. Like maybe she's just a horse that needs to run free. And it was very cool seeing that in a TV series because there weren't that many show. I can even think of a show that expressed like you don't have to get married. You don't have to have kids. You can just feel good about yourself. Wear a fabulous dress, have great friends, and just enjoy your life regardless. Absolutely. And I think for me as well, you know, when I read it, you know, 1998, I thought this is like

nothing else and I have to be on this thing and I want to live like this. Yeah. I mean, I didn't have the confidence that the characters had and I didn't have like that much dating. I wasn't like bold. I mean, you had a lot of confidence to act and become a famous actress. But it was acting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. So you're saying you were more shy and like. Yeah. And more like. Going home. I was already sober at this point in life. So I wasn't. Oh my God. That's so funny. So you were doing that show sober where you guys drank cocktails. Exactly. I know. And it did come to haunt me in a way. So I was telling you about the one picture we were, we were talking about whether we, I don't know how we got into this, but whether we have pictures of ourselves. Because some actresses do, which I always find super fascinating. Right. Because we are kind of, you know, there's a lot of images that get taken. Well, they're celebrating whatever themselves. But yeah, I've always kind of slightly hidden it. But I also think it's cool people that celebrate. Me too. Because I do think it's like an accomplishment. It's an accomplishment. Very much, it's a hard, hard job. And, you know, if you do make it at all and have images taken of yourself, like, put them up. But I never really feel that way except for, I was telling Heather, in my closet, I have a framed picture of the cover of Time magazine that has all four of us on it. And it says, who needs a husband, question. Because I can't think of another series. And maybe you've thought about it this more than me, but that celebrated single women just, having a great time before sex in the city.

Like, if you look at, like, Laverne and Shirley, it was like, oh, they're sad. They can't find any guys. Poor them. Like, this was like, yeah, we're single and we're fabulous. Right, right, right. I mean, there's Mary Richards. Okay, okay. But I mean, it's hard.

You have to really, like, look through decades. You're talking about Mary Tyler Moore? Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like, you know, she's throwing her hat in the street. Yeah, yeah. She's having fun.

Fibious and, you know, in her era. That's probably the only other. And then there's the Golden Girls. Yes, of course, the Golden Girls. Which is a complicated thing to compare us to, I find. But people do, you know, because they dated, I guess. I never really watched it. I think that's also why I'm confused.

I know. I never watched every episode of Sex and the City multiple times. It's a very, you know, it's funny because I didn't at first watch it when it first came out, but I was working in Prague. I was doing a movie, and I was missing home, and I binge watched, like, every episode. And I was, I fell in love, and I'm friends with Molly Shannon. I think she was on one episode. Yes, and she did divorce with Sarah.

Yeah, that's right. They're friends and stuff. But I remember that like, because that was before, I feel like, you know, it was harder to like watch things on demand. Like, you had to be home to watch it or you had, like, you know, you could miss it. No, it wasn't on demand. I can't remember if, like, you could record it on your VCR, but I remember. Well, the TiVo came.

The TiVo, the TiVo. No, but I remember running home. I was having dinner with Molly and we were like running home to catch the next episode. We're like, we can't miss it. Oh, so sweet. Yeah, it was fun. The world was simple like that now. Now there's so much content.

There's so much content. But at least there's more content for women. I feel like before we were kind of just stuck watching like three channels, four channels. Yes. No, you're absolutely right. I mean, there are a lot of other shows now with women as leads and with groups of women, though like you have to look hard to find one that is about women celebrating being single. You don't know what I'm saying?

Yeah, my friend and I are actually working on something like that right now. Good. We're working on a show like that. But yeah, I feel like now a lot of shows are very dark. It sort of feels like, oh, you can't take it seriously unless there's a murder or unless somebody is like super duper dark and screwed up. But there's not just like, you know, just like having fun and like women talking about stuff that you never saw a woman talking about on a TV show like farting or like different

kind of sexual craziness, you know? Right. No, I know. I know. I mean, there was girls after us. That's true. But that was after. It was after, definitely.

And then there was Issa Rae's show, which was great. Yeah, yeah, that was great. Right. But I mean, that's not that many shows, though. Right. No, and all of those are HBO, and I feel like there was some kind of intention on their part to continue having a version of that show, which I'm thankful for, right? Because we need more versions of that show. So, and let's just talk briefly before we talk about the episode, which there's so much to talk about. Tell us when you came on the show. Yes. So I'm in an episode. You know what's funny is that a lot of people talk to me about this.

Because, you know, I did a cameo. Yeah. Like, it still comes up that people. be like, oh my God, I'm watching it, or you were on sex in the city. And so yeah, I'm friends with Nadia Dejani. She was the face in that episode, the one who goes, oh, you dated Aden, and then she makes the face. So, and she was really good friends with a lot of writers in the show. She was friends with Michael Patrick King, Liz DiChillo. I think she actually helped Liz de Chillo get that job. Oh, wow. And all the fabulous people. And so, yeah, so I did a cameo. And Willie Garson was actually a friend of mine. I used to live next door to him. I know I'm very

sad he's not around anymore but uh but no i was it was fun being on the show and one of my really fun memories of being on the show was you know i think sarah jesska's very cool and then i got to meet her and she was so kind and i i was asking her how do you wear these high heels all the time i find them so uncomfortable like how do you do it and she was being so sweet and then she sent me a gift of like there was like a pedicure foot massage place in the village and she sent me a gift certificate to go get a foot massage and i'm like that that was like incredibly generous yes yes yes She's a sweetheart. Yes, it was really sweet.

That's good. So when you came on, tell me what you do, because I can't remember. Okay. Well, basically, the whole episode is about, you know, and I have to rewatch. I haven't recently seen it. But basically, she's in the bathroom. And my friend Nadia, she plays a booker for Saturday Night Live. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so they say something about Aiden and she goes, oh, you're a Carrie. And then she makes a face like, ooh, you really screwed him over, basically. And then Carrie gets paranoid. like, oh my God, is everyone think I'm, am I a jerk? Was I a jerk? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And then at the very end, she meets Nadia in the park with me. And it's like, oh, she's with Heather Graham. She's this booker for Saturday Night Live. And she goes, oh, this is Karen. And I go, and I do the face. And it's all about her just being paranoid. Like, are people gossiping about her being a bad girlfriend to Aiden? Oh, I can't wait to get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you get there. How interesting.

I mean, as much as I really, I really previous to doing this podcast, thought that I was very knowledgeable about our show and all the plots and everything. So not. So not. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're in it. You can't focus on everything. You're exhausted. And when you go back and you watch, you see how smart the writers were. Like, even all the horse imagery they placed through this episode, like with your character and the final horse imagery at the end, which is so memorable. It was really cool. I agree. You know, Michael Patrick's genius, right? I mean, all the other writers, too. I mean, they managed to do, like, have a lot of humor, sexy, but also this poignancy and this kind of fresh point of view about women and dating and culturally, like what we women can hope

for. Absolutely. Absolutely. And also, I mean, yeah, there's just so many details that that tie in together. And of course, I just remember my own, like, oh, my God, I get to ride a horse. Oh, my God, I've got to go, you know, practice again because I've written before for parts. You know, they always have a lot of stress. The horse wrangler doesn't trust actors. I get it, right? And you have to go out and prove yourself with the horse wrangler or whatever. And that beautiful bridge that they chose in the park and I love the park so much. So it was like so magical to get to do that. And I think there was another horse riding scene that they cut, which is fine.

It was, I think, I mean, when I look at the episodes, this is also one of those episodes where we're really getting it together, writing-wise, where... Yeah, because it changed so much from the beginning of the first season to the end of the second. It went from being like, everyone's talking to the camera. Right. And there's other people and random. people on the street, supposedly, but they're actors. And then now we're like, the voiceover says things like, you know, meanwhile, uptown.

Yeah. And they cut to Samantha. You know, it's very economical in terms of. It's more focused on the main characters, which I think was better than having a bunch of just like people on the street going like, well, sex in New York City, blah, blah, blah. Right. I mean, the joy of that, though, is also that HBO allowed us to do that. All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie.

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved, until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her. We know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling.

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Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only, Cardi B. My marriage, I felt the love dying. I was crying every day. I felt in the deepest depression that I had ever had. How do you think you're misunderstood? I'm not this evil, mean person that people think that I am. I'm too compassionate.

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In the 1980s, modeling wasn't just a dream. It was a battlefield. Book, book, book. Like deals. Let's get models in. Let's get them out. And the models themselves? They carried scars that never fully healed.

Until this day, honestly, if I see a measuring tape, I freak out. The Model Wars podcast peels back the glossy cover and reveals a high-stakes game where survival meant more than beauty. Hosted by me, Vanessa, Gris. This is the untold story of an industry built on ruthless ambition. Listen to Model Wars on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. For me, the other best thing about the show is you'd have all these moments where people are going through the ups and downs with their romantic lives. And I loved all the story with you in Kyle McLaughlin, and then you're, you know, ending up with Evan and stuff.

It was so great. But just that you go through all these ups and downs and then you'd think, oh, she's going to get back together with a guy, like, in a romantic comedy. But then they would all just hang out together and have a great time. Yeah. Which one of my other favorite ones is the cockadoodle do, where you guys, at the very end, it ends with you guys and the drag queens on the roof. And they're just like, they had a very lovely life. You know, and you guys were all dancing around the roof. So that it was kind of just about, like, the friends enjoying their friend.

and just happy, you know, without being like, oh, the movie needs to end with, like, a wedding and, like, a woman with a pregnant belly. Absolutely. And I do think that there was this stress, which I totally understand from the fans when we did end the first series, that we were all paired off. And people felt like that was a betrayal. And I fully got that. But I also feel like for the writers, you know, at that point, they've been kind of living this. And they felt like Carrie wanted to be chosen. But she did say, and the most important relationship is the one you have with yourself. She did. So she ended on that, even though everyone was, you know. Right. And I know Michael Patrick feels very strongly that that is the through line to all of our, you know, the first show, the films, the second show.

That's the through line to all of it. But for me, the other thing about that is, well, you can't really necessarily film someone just being happy with themselves at home as a film. You know what I'm saying? Right. So it manifests itself. in many ways, right? Like you want to see them in life and you want to see that get challenged and you want to see that go through things and how real is it? Is there yet another layer? No, I loved all the plots with you on Kyle McLaughlin where you caught him like masturbating

and then you took your wedding pictures and put it over the jug. I honestly, some of that is blacked out. I'm going to have to watch it. But it was so stressful because like you're really in it. You're really, really in it in so many ways. You know what I'm saying? You're not. Right. I'm sure from your point of view, your character, it's really stressful and hard. but from an outsider, it's kind of funny. But you know what is my favorite moment of you in the whole series? What?

I'm thinking of right now is that when you're like, you're like, where is Mr. Wright? I've been trying to find it for so long. And then you're like, my hair hurts. Or what was that line again? Like, what was it? I've been dating since I was 15. Where is he?

My hair hurts. Or maybe in a different order. You know, he was really great about that. That was when I remember, we haven't gotten to that yet. I think it's season three. And I remember I was so excited because I was getting more storylines.

Right, right, right, right. I was after the Staten Island, which I think is the first episode of season three. Oh, wait, the fireman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're all hung over because I dance on the ship, you know, right? I'm all crazy, or maybe in the bar, I think I'm in the bar, and I'm like, I'm pretty, I'm a catch.

You remember that whole thing? I think it's that, right? Isn't it that, Easton? Easton knows everything. I think it is, yeah. So then the next day I'm hung over, right? So I'm hung over, and they said, you know, you're not going to wear any, makeup. And I was like, woo-hoo!

You know, like, it's so exciting. And I remember getting there and thinking, like, I looked really horrible, and I remember our sweet, deep, thank you, saying, like, you look great. You should never get any hair makeup. And I was like, oh, my God, how amazing. And then the fun part of that was that right after that is when we started getting nominated for awards. Right. And when they would nominate me, they would show that clip. And I would get to hear the whole audience laugh. That's fun. I think it's relatable as a woman you're like, because I think a lot of times we're fed

this idea like, oh, you're going to meet this, like, Night and Shining Armour, like, in a fairy tale, then you're going to have your beef feel so happy and the rest of your likes are going to be happy. And you're like, no, no, for sure. I mean, maybe there's some people that have found like a, but nobody has that complete fantasy. And nobody is not going to, even if you meet the person, it's not just going to be happy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's had to disillusionment where I think when you're, you grow up thinking, well, if I do this and I try to look really good and I do this and I date, right, like I'll find this person and then I'll be so happy and it'll be all done. Yeah. Yeah. It's not all done. Yeah. That was partly why we wanted to do and just like that. Okay. Because even though Charlotte is happily married to Harry and that hasn't changed, it doesn't mean that life is over, right? Like, what if she wants to go back to work? What if there's stuff going on with their kids? You know, Carrie, you know, what if someone that you found and you went through all this hell to be with? And then they might die. I know. That happened to my friends. You know, they were so happy and

they were kind of like the iconic couple where you're like, look, these people are happy. They have it. And then he died. So sad. I know. It was terrible. And I mean, and then everyone was mad at us. But on the same hand, if you live long enough, this is what starts to happen.

This is how life is. You cannot predict it. There's no like stress-free route really for anyone that I know of. Yeah. Right? Yeah. You just have to find out what you actually really want, which I think is a very big question. Yeah, no, I agree for sure.

Yes. And I hope that that is what, what, I mean, we're still finding ourselves through this, right? And I think so interesting to look at Carrie and Bag and this episode where is when we learn that he's engaged to Natasha and her different struggles with it. And then at the end, you know, and I mean, we're going to get there in the rewatch, but the theme of what we're talking about when she, he said, he, she refers to, you know, your girl is lovely Hubble, right, which is the callback to the way we were and Robert

read for Barbara Streisand. And he says, I don't get it. And she says, and you never did. Right. And it's so good. It's such a good line, right? He never got her. Yeah.

He doesn't deserve her. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, obviously we go through many things later and it works out differently. But like in that moment, and he's also wearing this brown suit. And I'm like, ew. I mean, I also think.

And not that she hasn't been a lot of. and awarded, but, like, Sarah Jessica is so good. Yeah, she's great. I mean, the depth. Like, in that scene with him at the end, you know, when she does say, and you never did, like, she delivers it so light. Well, it's so relatable. I mean, who hasn't sat around with their girlfriends talking about a breakup and just

feeling confused and trying to, like, process it? And then just, I think the moment at the end was her just deciding to feel good about herself, even though that relationship didn't work out and to feel how amazing she is and she doesn't need that guy to affirm her that she can just affirm herself. And basically that he didn't even get her. Right. You know, like after two years of her stressing about him and trying so hard and doing this and doing that

and trying to get him to talk and, you know, following him around and different things, right? And then for her to finally go like, oh, yeah, you're with that beautiful but kind of simple girl. Right, right. And you're wearing a brown suit, you know what I mean? And look, I'm amazing, you know? Like she is.

She doesn't have to say it. It's just how it is, right? And then the comparison to the Barbara Streis and Robert Redford relationship in the way we were, we basically say, which I had also kind of forgotten that whole scene is super interesting with all four of us where we're kind of reenacting. And Samantha has not seen. That's hilarious. Where she turns and looks at the character, like kind of like, what's going on?

I can't believe I'm sitting to me. It's also kind of adorable because it's such an unusual position for her to be in, right? like not knowing everything about everything. You know what I mean? But I love when we're retelling the story of it to Samantha and we say, you know, Barbara Streis is there with her curly hair and she's really complicated and then he ends up with the other lady who has straight hair

which is really simple, which is obviously Charlotte. But that's fine. Oh, yeah, but Charlotte is like totally lovable. And we know her as opposed to, you know, Bridget Moynihan, who is a lovely person, I know her and I work with her. But, you know, they didn't develop that character where you really cared about her or knew her that well. No, absolutely.

And that's unfortunate in so many ways. And she and I talked about that because I do feel like it was kind of messed up what Carrie did. Yeah, he's, they both kind of weren't so nice to her. No, no. And she didn't deserve that, you know, but that's partly why we wanted to have her on just like that too, to kind of have a, like, give her some credit, you know, that character. Yes, of course.

And I do love Bridget. And she played that character so well. And the thing she told me, which was funny. And then we're going to rewatch. The thing that she told me that was funny was she didn't have any idea what it was or they'd give her like two pages or that she'd come back. Like they'd just call her and say like, are you available? And she'd say, yes. There was no contract.

Wow. So they didn't let her read the whole script? That is horrible as an actor. I know. Yeah. And look at how great she was. I know. Right?

Like I think she just brought. She has like such a grounding. I mean, she's so beautiful. So beautiful. And she has a real elegance. So if you were dating a guy and then he started dating her. And especially if, you know, she's younger or whatever as in the story. Yeah.

That would be so threatening and intimidating, you know. And also, she's just so different. She's so cool. Like perfect looking. There's like a perfect coolness about her, you know. Yeah. She fits perfectly into the waspy world of. Yes.

I mean, you can see why. You know what I mean? Which is, I mean, it was perfect casting. Yeah. But also, she's just so good, you know, and she brought that, which is amazing. All right. Let's do the technical rewatch part. That was really fun.

Okay, cool. Okay. Okay. The X in the city. Okay. This is fun because a lot, everyone has an amazing storyline, which is hard to do. Really hard. With four, you know, leads, right?

So we begin, I didn't remember any of this. Carrie and Miranda are out there. They're at a bodega. They're debating, does she buy the $5 flowers that last three days or the 10 of the flowers that last five days? It's all very funny and relatable and real. And then all of the sudden, Miranda looks down the street. and see Steve coming with the basketball.

It is so adorable. And like a little child, she turns and she runs away, which is so cute. And that's when you kind of really realize. And again, I'm rewatching this whole relationship and thinking how incredible it is. So beautifully written to Steve Miranda. And it's so lovable.

And it's cool how Miranda is like, she's kind of this like strong career woman, but then she has this other side, which is like, you know, it's adorable. Definitely. And I think you really see that. clearly here because they've been broken up, right? So she's seeing him and her response is to literally run with Carrie,

which is so funny and not Miranda-like, but that's kind of how you know that this is not her regular relationship. This is something more and she's just struggling within like, what does that mean for me? You know, because she thinks of herself. I was so rooting for Steve when I was watching

the show. I mean, you couldn't like Steve, you know? I mean, I was not rooting for Steve. You were? Originally, I don't know what I thought. I just thought like, I just thought it was odd But when I look back on it I'm blown over Number one by how incredible he is

And number two, it's just beautiful writing Yeah Like they're different but they're complimentary And that's what she needs Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah She needs some grounding and some optimism He's so sweet So sweet

It just cuts through her like kind of You know her tough attitude Yeah Her stick, you know what I'm saying And I think, like, you know, I do feel sad when I look back because I know what's coming, which people definitely had a lot of feelings about. I know. It is sad.

It is sad, but, I mean, sometimes things don't work out. Yeah. All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling.

I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her, or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happen to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And to binge the entire season at free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? And I help a man atone for an armed,

robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. And he got down. And I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother tried to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look to people in the eye. Not always hide behind a microphone.

Listen to Heavyweight on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only, Cardi B. My marriage, I felt the love dying. I was crying every day. I felt in the deepest depression that I had ever had. How do you think you're misunderstood? I'm not this evil, mean person that people think that I am.

I'm too compassionate. I have sympathy for that fuck my man. Put so much heart and soul into your work. What's the hardest part for you to take that criticism? This shit was not given to me. I worked my ass off for me. Even when I was a stripper, I'm gonna be the best pole dancer in here. When was the moment you felt I did it?

I still, to this day, don't feel comfortable. I fight every day. to keep this level of success because people want to take it from you so bad. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I started trying to get pregnant

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shady money drugs violence and broken promises it's a freaking war zone these people are animals there's no integrity there's no loyalty that's all gone in the 1980s modeling wasn't just a dream It was a battlefield. Book, book, book, make deals. Let's get models in. Let's get them out. And the models themselves?

They carried scars that never fully healed. Till this day, honestly, if I see a measuring tape, I freak out. The Model Wars podcast peels back the glossy cover and reveals a high-stakes game where survival meant more than beauty. Hosted by me, Vanessa Groporiatus, this is the untold story of an industry built on ruthless ambition. Listen to Model Wars on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Back to the episode. Back to the episode. This is the funny thing, too, about looking back because we have had this joy of getting to create these characters for so incredibly long.

Yeah. And it's crazy. to think that this aired in 1999. That is wild. I mean, that's so cool that it culturally is still, people are still watching it. It's so true. Yeah. I have a question.

Yeah. So I always had a house here in L.A. Okay. And I would go to work in New York and then I would come back here to like rest, right? And then in between seasons, definitely. And one time, I think I was at a coffee bean and tea leaf, possibly on Sunset Boulevard. And I think you were there. And I think you were there with Heath Ledger.

Yes. I dated him. And in fact, I think we might have watched the show together. And I think he actually really liked it. I remember us watching it and him being like, I can relate to this. Because I was like, I don't know, because sometimes you try to get guys to watch it with you. And some guys loved it, but other guys would be like, I don't know. That's a girl show.

Of course. But no, I remember watching the show with him. Well, we were standing there in line and I'm by myself. And you know that thing like when you're newly famous and you're like, oh, my God, they're famous? And you're looking at them, but you really think that they would never. I feel that way about you. I like forget that I'm fam. I'm like, oh, my God.

I'm talking to. Charlotte, like, oh, my God, you know, yeah. At the time, you two were just, like, this ray of light in this coffee bean. I do remember that, actually. And you were, like, kind of, like, giggling and touching each other. And I was just like, like, hold it together. Like, I was just, you know, and you were cute. I wish you would have talked to us.

I know, I wish I would have, too. It's one of those times where you're like, darn, I should not have been shy. But also, I felt protective, like I didn't want to call attention to you. because you seemed very free. Do you know what I mean? That's nice. Yeah, I was very in love with him. I can only imagine.

Yeah, I know. He's kind of amazing. Oh, God. I mean, and the two of you looked so similar and beautiful. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I was just like, wow. I'm like bowled over by these people and I have to just stand here and I can come on.

I have a lot of cool pictures of when I dated him and I thought at one point like maybe I should do like a photo album. I think people would love to see that. I'm not really sure because I'm not really sure because I. because I don't really, then they were like, you have to get the family permission. But I have some really cool pictures of when we dated. I mean, of course you would want to be respectful. But at the same time, like, what an incredible light and gift he was. Yeah, he was.

And such a sad, sad, you know, too short. His life was cut too short by pure accident, which was like so horrible and tragic. But I do remember that. And I had forgotten. I was going to ask you before we started if it was okay. But it's okay. No, no, I feel proud that I dated him, yeah, for sure. I mean, what a special soul.

It was fun, yeah. I'm glad. And you guys looked so... I wish he was still alive. That would be nice. I know. Yeah. I know.

It's terrible and so talented. It is. But some of these really bright lights kind of, you know, don't get to live so long, you know. I don't feel that way. I do feel that. I mean, iconic, you know, Jimmy Hendricks, Janice Joplin, you know,

different amazing. Oh, there's so many. Artists, yeah. That's why when you think about Robert Redford, it's really amazing. Yeah, he had a long full. I mean, if you die when you're like 90, that's a good.

life. And you weren't in pain, you didn't have cancer, you didn't, like, suffer, like, through Alzheimer's or something like that. Totally. It's so incredible. It's so incredible. And he obviously deserves that. And I hope he's, you know, with the trees. Totally, totally. I didn't meet him once at Sunday. Did you? He had a little thing around the Me Too time, and he had me come and talk about it. And I just remember he was really respectful. And he has that amazing energy where it just feels like he can quietly be there, be this presence, and you can really just feel this amazing energy and of course out of Africa too that's another amazing Robert Redford movie oh my god the do you want to the funniest thing I rewatch it recently because I went to Africa for the first time

oh by the way you did that show in Africa oh yeah oh I've been so much I was jealous I'm one of the producers I work with I'm like what an incredible job you got to go on a safari in Africa but um but I did you you worked with the producer there who was on my movie yeah the blocky no no not the producer there he lives here what's his name again it's fine yeah whatever yeah Brad Brad Brad Brad yeah yeah yeah he's a trip yeah he is But, but, but, no, so I rewatched out of Africa and then I was going back and reading about it. And I was reading that there were these reviews when it came out where they were trashing the movie. Can you be?

And they were trashing his performance. And I was thinking, that's why you can't take any reviews down seriously. Because it's like, you know. Oh, yes. That was an amazing performance. He's like an iconic character in that movie. Right? And her as well.

And, you know, they didn't think she was sexy enough to get that part. No, I read about that. She had to go buy a push-up bra and like, tar. herself up for Sidney Pollock. What on earth our business? So Sydney Pollock has done some great movies. I mean, he's incredible. Incredible.

Yeah, no. I'm just saying it's crazy. It's crazy. The Merrill had to do that, you know, and then people criticize Redford. Oh. And they were talking about how the movie wasn't good and criticizing that he didn't do. I'm like, what are they talking about? People are insane.

I know. No, that's actually why I ended up having my obsession. I mean, it was the leaping off point. of me wanting to go and, you know, then, you know, life unfolding once I got there. I was like, I got to go to Africa. Definitely. And it is. It is.

We're going to talk about that later. Okay, back to the episode. All right, we're on the street. We see Steve. He's adorable in his basketball outfit. And Miranda runs off, which is kind of funny. So then they go to, we all have, we're together. We're having a, basically, we're in the classic coffee shop scene now.

We have it established for a while. We were in different restaurants. Now we have our set. We're in the scene. Those days would be very long days, as you can imagine. So you guys always ate at the same restaurant? We did. It was a set.

Okay. Yeah, it was a set. Previous to us building our coffee shops that we were in, like, different assorted places. Right. But then we got our set and we could just be there for 18 hours and film every angle with beautiful lighting. So that was great. The big thing that I love to think about from this, and I think it's still a really big issue, is, can people be friends with exes?

And in general, I think there's also a subtext of, can you have guy friends as a woman, you know, a straight woman, I guess I should say. I don't know if that matters or not, but, you know, and basically Samantha is like, women are for friendships and men are for fucking. She's awesome. I love her. Yes, very Samantha. I know.

But I mean, I personally love my male friends. Right. I have one of my best friends is a guy. He gives me hope in like the whole gender. He's one of the nicest, best people I've ever known. He is like a brother. I love his wife. I love their daughter.

So I think for sure they can be friends. Yeah. And I think it's important. Yes. I would go so far as saying. In terms of being friends with your ex, I think it's possible. But maybe that's slightly more complicated. But being friends with a guy.

Like, yes, 100%. I mean, I think with your ex, I think you have to be careful that you're being fully honest with yourself about what you're doing, right? Like, are you really just? just hoping that you're going to get back together. For me, it would be, am I still codependently taking care of this person? Interesting. In which case.

I can totally relate to some codependency things. Yes. Then I have to cut that off. I don't want to. I never want to leave anyone. It is sad what they talk about in the episode. Like, why should you throw away? You spent so much time with this person.

And then it's not working. You're like, and then you just throw them away and never talk to them again. I know. I agree. I agree. But that's also how I've gotten into some not great situations where, like, I'm still on the phone hearing about whatever, you know what I mean. And I don't really have energy for that.

You know what I'm saying? I'm like, why am I taking care of this person emotionally? Yeah, no, that's bad. What an occasional happy birthday, you know? Oh, that's fine. I'm so glad you're doing well. Oh, I always want to be civil. I mean, there's very few that I wouldn't want to be civil to.

Gosh. Yeah. So you're not exactly like Charlotte. No. No. No. But I definitely am, um, are you a Charlotte? I am.

That was good. That was smooth. I am like half Charlott and half Carrie. Really? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Should we just ask you now too? Because I'm curious. Well, I kind of, it is sort of, when I was younger, I think I did relate more to the other characters because I think I was rebelling against a traditional upbringing, you know. But I do think now that I have incorporated more Charlotte into my personality. Okay. Yeah. But when you say other characters, do you mean Samantha?

Do you mean Miranda? I mean, I can relate to Carrie. I think of Carrie is. kind of like a romantic who has like you know her love life is kind of going through all these ups and downs yes um i could relate to miranda who's like kind of a career woman who's just like i want to have a career i want to be independent i want to try to achieve things i want to be self-sufficient i related to that right and i could relate to just i mean Samantha just be i mean i mean i was never that wild but i definitely you know it was a little wild sure sure sure

I mean, what's great about Samantha is that she just owns it. You know, she's, I mean, such a great character. No, I guess probably that an alter ego part of me would have loved to be more wild. Do you remember your Lenny Kravitz American woman? That was like so powerful and so in a Samantha vein. You know what I mean? Well, no, I think when I grew up, I was a nerdy kid awkward. I was not seen as pretty.

So I did feel like as an actor, I was pretending to be this like sexual. When in reality, I was pretty much just like I had boyfriends and, you know, whatever. But then I felt like I played up this other side, which is like this sexual art, alter ego. Do you know that song called Alter Ego? Yeah. That's amazing. No, I do feel like I acted out like an alternate side of myself. What about Roller Girl?

Right. So that's that, that's that, right? What an incredible performance. Thank you. I mean, I love that performance. Sometimes I just think about Hugh bashing that guy. Oh, my God. That was a fun scene.

I wanted to do more angry. Like that. Right? I want to do scenes like that too. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like we need places to put those.

I just, I had, there were two skates we used. I donated one pair to the Academy Museum. And then this other pair was bought by my friend. This guy, this super successful director, Mike Flanagan. I'm working with him on this new Carrie TV show. But he bought the main pair that I wore. He just bought them as far as he owns all this movie memorabilia. So he owns like the roller skates and like an outfit.

It's really fun. He sent me a picture. He's like, is this what you wear? in the movie and I'm like, yeah, and he's like, okay, I'm buying it. Oh, thank God, he checked, right? Sometimes I wonder, you know what I mean. Like sometimes, because there's like six two-toes that supposedly were all in the beginning. I know.

Oh, really? Oh, in the credit sequence. Yeah, everyone tells me when they tell me that they have it, I'm like, okay. Wow. Because I think Michael Patrick has it hanging on as well. But okay, you know, maybe there was more than one. Maybe, maybe, who knows. But I just had such a flashback of that part and the joy of watching that.

you know. That was really fun. I mean, so good. So good. Okay, back to the show. Okay. I think I'm distracting you. I should just stop talking.

No, it's great. Are you kidding? I mean, it's a joy. It's a joy to be having you here and talking about it. Yeah, it's fun. No, honestly, it's really fun because I can't even tell you how much the show really did mean to me. So it's fun. It's incredible to be part of something that means things to people.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is the best part of our business for sure. It pretty much evens out all the hard part. Don't you think? Yeah, it does. It does. It really does. And we're just so lucky.

Okay, so here we are. We're at the table. We're discussing, you know, and Carrie says it, kind of a deep thing, which is what you were just referring to. She says, if you love someone and you break up, where does the love go? And Samantha says something like, to the other girlfriend. But, I mean, really, it is a deep question. Like, if you've really spent time with that person and gotten to know that person and kind

of, you know, like had a really deep exchange with that person, like, then it's just over bam. Like how? Why? You know? Yeah. But this has also led me down some bad roads. So this, I relate to this.

I want to hear all those stories off out of the podcast. Yeah. Not all the stories. But I mean, I'm just, I'm, so back to the Charlotte part, the part of me. And it is kind of what you referred to about Carrie being a romantic. She is a romantic too, right? In her own way. Like, it looks different for her than it looks for Charlotte, right?

Charlotte is much more of kind of what society tells you, like marriage, family, kids, puppy wedding dress. you know, blah, blah, blah. I never had that, but I do have the romantic side where, like, it's hard for me to let go. You know, I believe in love. Yeah, of course. You know, might believe too much, you know, when all the signs would be telling me, like, get out. Like, I can go into a fantasy in my head and, like, oh, well, you know, not always see reality.

100%. As can I. And, I mean, I think that's important to be able to do that, certainly for our jobs, but I think also for life, right? Because if you can't like kind of imagine the possibilities, then it's just hard. Yeah. Life is hard. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So I kind of have one foot in both, both camps. But sometimes when I'm watching back and I look at everyone's point of view and then those scenes where we do all have four very distinct points of view, I can kind of go with everybody. You know what I mean? I'm like, oh, yeah, she's right. Everyone's got a good point.

Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, no, no, she's right too. And then I'm like, oh, yeah, we're all right. Which is kind of good. That's good writing, right? So then, oh, we have such a great, great shot of Sarah Jessica. I love to watch the shots of Sarah Jessica evolve over time of her writing. Okay.

And her wearing a sort of different underwear. And she's so good with her body. And in this one, it's hot. But it's just a beautiful, if you look at the beginning of our show and then, like, where it goes visually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just incredible. And again, that was HBO allowing us and our DPs. And I remember different directors coming in and kind of like up in the game, you know.

And your wardroves, of course. Totally. But also, we had to get more money. You know, like when Molly came on, she reminded me that we had $10,000 for the whole first season. What? How did you guys do it? Don't know.

Don't know. Must have got a bunch of free stuff. We didn't because no one knew who we were and what we were doing. The Fendi back out was the first one. Right. And that was Sarah Jessica kind of, you know, just using her relationships and getting one. And then it, you know, went from there. Wow.

And she would, she would so sweetly make so much effort to show it. Like, I remember doing scenes where she'd put it on her plate. That is so funny. And we'd be like, are you sure? She's like, just till the food comes. I remember, like, the episode that I did that she was in, she was pregnant. And so she was trying to hide her pregnant belly with a purse. Yeah, that was so funny because she had to hold a purse in front of her stomach.

It so didn't work. Because I think she brought her, her Kelly or Birkin or whatever. And she had it and it worked. But then the sun would hit and her shadow on the street would be pregnant. I know. I mean, good for her, though. Of course. Of course, good for her.

And good for them for trying. And then at a certain point, they were like, everybody go home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is pretty obviously not. Yeah. And also, Cynthia was pregnant at that point, too. Yeah, a little bit later, but the same year. So they were like, just go home.

Right, right, right. We'll see you in a year. And it all worked out. At the time, it seemed very stressful, but it all worked out. Okay, Heather Graham is just too much fun. So she is going to continue breaking down X in the City with us. So please come back and hear part two with Heather Graham of Are You a Charlotte? The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls.

came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And to binge the entire season, ad free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Chetty, host of the podcast. On Purpose podcast, I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only, Cardi B. My marriage, I felt the love dying.

I was crying every day. I felt in the deepest depression that I had ever had. This shit was not given to me. I worked my ass off for me. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein. And on the new season of heavyweight... And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke.

A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old. And a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? Listen to heavyweight on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Introducing IVF Disrupted, the Kind Body Story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. It grew like a tech startup. While KindBody did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients. You think you're finally like in the right hand.

You're just not. Listen to IVF Disrupted, the Kind Body Story, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the 1980s, modeling wasn't just a dream. It was a battlefield. It's a freaking war zone. These people are animals. The Model Wars podcast peels back the glossy cover

and reveals a high-stakes game where survival meant more than beauty. Hosted by me, Vanessa Grigoriatis, this is the untold story of an industry built on ruthless ambition. Listen to Model Wars on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.