Are You A Charlotte? - Lena Waithe on And Just Like That

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

Kristin and Lena Waithe discuss And Just Like That -- the highs, the lows, and why it's worth watching! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. We're free on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't.

Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility. We'll talk science without the jargon and get your real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. So check out the mailroom on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. On an all new episode of IHeartRadios Las Culturistas, Emmy, Golden Globe and Tony Award winner Sarah Paulson spills on red carpet hacks. We saw these pictures and you're like, what is the story with this? She gets real about the inspiration behind her roles. Oh, no, there is no end to how people will behave. And she puts host Matt Rogers and Bowen-Yag

on notice. I don't think so, honey. I feel very, very. triggered by this. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Lust Cultureista and listen to the full podcast now. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast. Recently I had the honor of sitting down with the iconic Chris Jenna. Even if one of your children has been through something really difficult with their partner or an ex-partner, you still love them as part of the unit and the family.

These are the fathers of my grandchildren. And that love doesn't go away when we experience really challenging times. with them. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? We are here with a little bonus episode where Lena and I discuss and just like that. Please enjoy. We were talking about women of color being on the show, what I loved about Jennifer Lewis's, seeing Jennifer Lewis's character and Cory Parker's character in the same frame. So beautiful. It's not just about them being two black

women, but it was more about them being two very specific black women. So specific. And so different. And obviously, you know, generational differences and obviously there's humor and dealing with death. And I just thought it was so beautifully done. I communicated that to Susan and to Jennifer as well. And I think that is the evolution of the show as well. And it's not just about, oh, let's put a black woman at the table, a Middle Eastern woman at the table. But it's really more about, well, who are they? Right. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I don't, okay, she's black, great. What else? Right. And I think that's where you get Susan Fels Hill being very culturally specific and like, like, you know, kind of infusing some things that maybe she can relate to

into the character. And Nicole Rory Parker is fantastic. I've been a fan. hurts for a long time. Yes. And so I think that that's to me is what happens. It's like shows grow and they shift and they change. But also I think we live in a very youth leading society as well. Yes, yes. So when you're watching women who have a certain age who are living certain lives,

there is a level of people or maybe people who are those characters, ages feel like, well, I don't live that way or that's not my experience. But I always, I say I try to get away from this idea of, oh, I want to see myself because I can see myself in the lead character in Baby Rainier, and he's a white straight dude. who is like, you know, in London as a struggle comedian. Definitely. And even though I don't, I don't have anything in common with him in that way, I can relate to his desire to be desired and his desire to be left alone.

Sure. And so, and I think to me it's about what is the human connection that is happening with us in the character? That's what I was like, I don't need a person to be black and queer and female like me for me to relate to them. Right. I want to know, what is it, are they struggling with? What are they going through? What are they facing in this moment? And that's the joy of what we do.

Exactly. You might relate to someone who has nothing similar to you. Exactly. That's the whole point. It's like it's about empathy. It's about seeing your humanity as someone that looks nothing like you. And I think that's why I was like, again, like don't pacify me. Don't put characters in there because you're like, well, this is the right thing.

It's like, no, like do it. If you're going to do it, do it in a way that feels organic and authentic. I agree. I agree. And I think for us, like the joy of and just like that was to get to come back together with our new people who brought so much specificity. love you know joy like they were so present everyone brought their best and that's what we felt when we were there so sometimes the reaction it just didn't match and then you're like what is happening so that's what I was curious about yeah well what is happening and the truth is like

because you can't go to everyone's house and ask right you know uh I would like to though because and I think and there's so many different answers but again I think whenever there is turmoil or there's sort of a frustration, you kind of have to, again, critique the criticism and say, hey, what's happening? Don't always say, oh, you guys don't know. Because sometimes people are like, say, hey, that's not working for me. I don't get this. Right.

Why are they doing that? You know. I mean, it is interesting. Yeah, this is cool to have a conversation. But the truth is, you guys have paid the way, you've done the thing. This is your stage. Right. And like, when you go see a play, you don't get to say, I don't like this.

And what's going on? Totally. You kind of say, hey, this is what I came to see. Right. And whether I like it or not, isn't really almost relevant because it's done. That's true. That's true as well. Right.

But we're not living in times like that, which is interesting. I'm just fascinated by the shift and like, where is it going to go? You know what's going to happen? But I also think people just need their, people are frustrated. Yeah. And I think they need something to be frustrated about. I think 100. It's a lot easier to be frustrated by a TV show.

than what's actually happening in the world. And I get that. By the way, what's funny, you'll see more passion about that than the voting rights being rolled back. That was one thing that I, that I, at the time, I was like, I cannot believe the, the, the, vitriol. And like, what's happening in the world?

And then like, look over here, okay. But then you go, oh, it's actually the same. It's related. They're not independent. Right. They're not separate of each other. Yeah, right, right. Yeah.

But that's hard to be in that place, you know, as an actor. But I'm a fan of the book. of the let them theory. Are you? Yeah. So it's like, let them. You make me love. So many surprises from Lena. Let them.

I mean, you know, yes, I think the hard thing is, what do you continue, do you continue, regardless of that, or do you take it in and think that it means, you know, what do you do with it all, right? And we stopped for now, as I said, I feel like there's more to be, to be sad. I hope. More stories to tell? Yes, I just don't feel like that was our ending. Because we didn't know it was our ending.

I didn't know. I had no idea. I read like an article in News Hollywood Reporter. So I don't know that I thought that it was. Michael and Sarah discussed that it might end, but no one told the rest of us. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I had no idea. I had no idea.

We had dinner, the three of us, Sarah Sin and I, maybe two weeks after it ended. Sarah told you. We had it. No, we knew. We knew. Because he told us before. Oh, of course. We'd filmed it, but it hadn't aired.

Gotcha. Yes. He would never leave us totally unaware, but we were largely unaware, right? I mean, every season, it was unclear slightly, right? As it is, you know. But also, I would see a glint in his eye, like a creative glint in his eye. And I would be like, okay. But we were a little burnt at the end of this one, you know?

I felt a different energy. And partly because he was going to do the comeback. Right, right. Season three. So the creative energy was there. Sure. And I thought he'll just need some time off. You know, Michael's always going to have ideas.

Yeah. Right? So I wasn't that worried about it. Like I read the script, the final script, and I was like, that's not our ending. That's me. I think you're not alone in that. I know, I know. And then so when we had dinner, the three of us, I said to Sarah, I was like, I just don't feel that that is like a good ending.

I'm curious what Sarah had to say. Sarah said, well, I don't know quite what happened. Because, you know, we, like, towards the end, I think I was shooting six episodes at once. Like, that's how messy our season had gotten. What? I had not filmed the part where I tell her that Harry has cancer yet. Because I'd gotten COVID the week I was supposed to film it in July 4th week. That's happened to us.

Yes, right? It's a hot mess. Yeah. Felt terrible. So because it was a Dwayne Reader, whatever it was, CVS, whatever it was. The Pampers. It had gotten past, yeah. It had gotten bumped all the way down until the bitter, bitter end.

Interesting. Yeah. So like I had to remember like, okay, wait, have I told people, have it not told people? Do I now? Do I not? You know, it was all that juggling that you do as an actor, right? So the Thanksgiving episode, which was general craziness anyway. I know about Thanksgiving episodes. Right. You are the master of Thanksgiving episodes. She's delivering pies. We're at Miranda. But Miranda's not there. Exactly. There's some bizarre bathroom antics going on. So we're having dinner. And she's like, I don't remember what happened. And I said, you know, we argue about something. But I don't know what. it was. She's like, I don't know what it was either. And Cynthia's like, maybe it had to do with Victor Garber. And we're like, maybe it did. I mean, we don't know. Like, that can't be our ending. This is literally a scene and it's just like that. Y'all being confused. We were in a little small room of this restaurant that Sarah had called ahead so that we could, and there was like, maybe three other people there, three other couples. And they were just like, what is going on? I mean, we were laughing really hard. We thought this whole thing was pretty funny.

but only because we were so addled by the end you know that's my word not theirs but you know what I mean we were like we we don't know what happened wow and Sarah doesn't watch right because she finds it uncomfortable at this point in time to watch so she was like I don't know she said you need to ask me these questions in a year when I've had time to process and I was like okay I will do that I'm going to you'll mark your calendar I'm going to catalog this and I'm going to be like Sarah Jessica hello I have some questions what's going on wow but I mean it's who knows who knows A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health. And I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone. Depends which bone.

Well, that's true. Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom. You mean sleep? Yeah, something like that, Jordan. We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between. Men's health is about more than six packs and supplements. It's about energy, confidence, and connection.

We don't just want you to live longer. We want you to live better. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. On an all-new episode of IHeartRadios Las Culturistas, Emmy, Golden Globe and Tony Award winner Sarah Paulson spills on red carpet hacks. We saw these pictures and you're like, what is the story with this? She gets real about the inspiration behind her roles.

Oh, no, there is no end to how people will behave. And she puts host Matt Rogers and Bowen-Yag. on notice. I don't think so, honey. I feel very, very triggered by this. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Lust Cultureista. And listen to the full podcast now. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast. Recently, I had the honor of sitting down with the iconic Chris Jenner. You never quite know what or where life is going to lead you and where it's going to be the best lesson you ever learned and not get distracted by the noise. This is a lot of noise. even if one of your children has been through something really difficult with their partner or an ex-partner you still love them as part of the unit and the family these are in most cases the fathers of my

grandchildren I love these men and that love doesn't go away when we experience really challenging times with them compassion is key into really feeling what somebody might be going through Even though you don't agree with them, if you once love them, then love is love. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3 a.m?

On health stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also what our health says about us and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that, like, Your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but, like, you don't even know. You don't know. You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think it's interesting with, like, endings of shows and characters.

So hard. And it's like, you. you guys live in a very specific place for people because, like, I'll go back and revisit the first movie, you know, obviously I'll go back and revisit certain episodes and seasons and things like that. And I really like the first season of it and just like that. I thought it was really interesting. You know, I do. I think it was. I think it was really interesting too. Yeah. And by the way, it's very Merri-Talmore coded because they came back with Marion Roda and it was like a whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I watched. Yeah, me too. It was a TV movie. They were trying

to make it a series, but they made it a TV movie. And it is that thing of revisiting these characters that you know. And you love and you want to see where they are and what's going on. I mean, and Mary and, you know, and Valerie Harper, I mean, they were, you know, women of a certain age going back into the workforce, dealing with a lot of different things. And so you guys are very much a part of that lineage. Yes. And we're happy to be. Yeah.

It's beautiful. It's iconic. And I think what you're saying is you're like, oh, now the world has shifted and it's different than when we were first doing this. Oh, definitely. Even when the movie came out, like all these different things. Like when the movie came out, you guys are going on Oprah and promote it. Yeah. You know, and now it's like, you know, and just like that, like Sarah's going on a Howard show to talk about what's going on.

You're like, oh, what? What is this going on? So true. And so I just think the show continues to grow with us. And I hear you on the ending. It's interesting because I still have held off watching the last episode of and just like that. I know people that have and they're sort of like, no, you got to have the. the ending in the funeral, if you

will. And for me, I'm just sort of like, I'm not even ready to kind of... I haven't watched it here. Have that last chapter. I feel the same way, Lena. That's why I don't feel finished. Do you know what I mean? I just don't feel finished. I just don't feel finished. I'm going to work on Michael Patrick.

Is it another movie maybe? I mean, I feel like it could be anything we wanted, but I don't think we should do a movie in the theaters, as special as that was. I feel like we should let that... Streaming maybe. Yeah. I mean, we'll see what happens with our company. Oh, I know. Good Lord. I know. It may get bought up. I mean, again. I know. I know. Look, I'm a, I love TV characters never die, though. It's true. They just always live on. It's true. But that's why I also feel like, I feel like, first of all, I feel just as a woman who is my age of Charlotte, right? Life isn't over. And I feel a responsibility in a way to continue if we are allowed to continue. because I do feel like it's important. Yeah. To our original fans who are our ages, right?

True. Whose lives also aren't over. That's a thing. It's a real thing. They're like living. Yes. And hopefully thriving. Maybe with vertigo.

Maybe. I'm like, Susan, what's up with the vertigo situation? Yes. Talk to Susan about it. She was the expert. I had, I'd say which one of you guys, okay? Because somebody needs to help me. But I didn't, like, I was like, oh, it's something I definitely don't want to get.

Listen, that's how I felt as well. I was like, what? It's happening. It's happening. But look, they got to introduce new things to us that we're not familiar with that we're not aware of. That's right. I will say what but me was odd that Charlotte wouldn't tell the girls about Harry having cancer. It was like, what was the secret?

You know what I thought it was about? And I mean, this is my. I don't always have. Because Steve had this circular cancer. It's true, but that was a while ago. I mean, that was before the children were born, right? well yeah she got pregnant right right right right right exactly right

I've already watched that part yet but I remember it vaguely I think personally this is what I personally think those children could be very high maintenance yeah so I think Charlotte was trying to protect herself by not telling them

the children yes but what about her friends well she wanted to tell it obviously that was really hard but Harry didn't want that right because Harry was trying to keep it a secret why well this is also based on a writer's situation. Okay.

A writer's significant of their situation, right? You know, they always have to use those. Yes. Where I think that person had just felt like

if everyone knew while they were going through it that they would have pity for them and talk to them in a way that would make them uncomfortable. They didn't want to make everyone feel bad.

They wanted to wait until it was done. I did like the moment where he was watching a baseball game and you were like, is this how you want to spend the last moments? And he's sort of like,

yeah, I'm like. He's like, don't bother me. I know. It's like, he's like, He let him do what he wants to do. I know, it was funny. I couldn't feel it was funny in the moment

because I had to be Charlotte, right? I know. But I did, I liked that scene on the page. Because I also thought that's a very, that's like a successful thing. I literally said that to somebody where I was like, wow, how do you want to spend your last moments? I know, I know, I know, right? And you don't want to be doing these sort of forced family, oh, goodbye. Right. You want to do the things that make you happy and bring you joy.

Absolutely. So that's the thing. And just like that still brings those conversations, man. It does. I know, it does. I agree. I agree. And that's why I don't feel like we're done. But that's okay. That could just be me because that's how I always feel.

But what's interesting why just like that about that chapter is that you guys are dealing with mortality. Yes. I think that's also what people freak down about. On sex in the city. I know. It's like splat, you know, but for the most part. But rare, right. Exactly.

And I think that's also some of the reaction, but I don't know that people are aware that that's what they're reacting to. Right. Well, of course not. Because why would a 30-year-old have that awareness? Right. Or want to be thinking is that what I'm. I'm going to be doing when I'm older or what's ahead. Right.

They would rather think of us in our 30s. Right. I get it. I get it. I get it. Because it's also a more fun time. It's totally more fun. We've got those crazy outfits.

We're running around the streets and whatnot. Single still. Thinking about getting weddings. You know, getting pregnant by accident. Totally. You know? Totally. Yeah, we took in my mind, I remember the conversation where Sarah and Michael called me about

and just like that. We knew. somewhat intellectually, like we had an idea that it was going to be challenging for people to come into the new era with us, right? You know, we had some understanding of that, but then, like, the reality of it is so much more than your intellectual idea of it.

You know, the visceral reaction that people had. But then also, I still stand by it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't feel like we have to not do something so that people don't get upset. Here's the thing, like, you can never go home again. No. You know.

And if we tried to make the old show, it would not have worked. Exactly. Like, people would have been very mad. Oh, yeah. No. It's like, you can't be doing the same shit in your, you know, at this age when you were doing then. People would say to me like, I don't understand why you girls weren't going out more. And I'm like, uh...

What? Yeah, I know. People would say a lot of crazy things to me. Again, because they want the old show. Yeah. And I'm like, but you have the old show and you can watch it. It's still there. Enjoy it.

It's great. Y'all just challenging folks. We're just in a different. We are. That's how we roll. We're challenging folks. About interracial dating, about vertigo, about testicular cancer. Testicular cancer. All of it.

Prostate cancer. Husbands dying on pelotons. There's just a lot happening. With the shoes on. Yes. Black women making documentaries. I know. About people they've never heard of.

I just really, in my mind, there is an LTW's family spinoff. Oh. I feel like it. would be great. Okay, LTW spinoff. Yeah. Wow, okay.

Remember when the family, when they all get dressed to go to the funeral? Yes. So beautiful. I know. Very classy black morning. I know.

And Nicole said she was in a Fellini movie in her mind. Yeah. And I was like, you brought that. You brought that. Oh, what a joy.

And then also the humor they got with that damn memorial. Oh, my God. A week of filming for that thing. Of course. Jennifer Lewis. I mean.

The one and only. The one and only. What a joy to have her. I'm so glad y'all got her in there. God, me too. So funny. She was cracking me up. She really is.

I mean. She said this would be able to see better days. It's just like nuts. It was so great. She's great. She's so great. And everyone we had was so great. That's the other joy of getting to go back to work.

You get to bring the people that you want that need things. things to do that are, you know, contributing their art. It's beautiful. No, that was great. I loved all the new people you introduced and obviously seeing folks from the O.G. The O.G. We love them so much. I know, I know.

We love everybody. But, you know, we're lucky we got to make it. Yes, absolutely, especially in these times. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him?

I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic

at UCLA, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility. We'll talk science without the jargon and get your real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about.

So check out the Mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. On an all-new episode of IHeartRadios Las Culturistas, Emmy, Golden Globe and Tony Award winner Sarah Paulson spills on red carpet hacks. We saw these pictures and you're like, what is the story with this? She gets real about the inspiration behind her roles. Oh, no, there is no end to how people will behave. And she puts host Matt Rogers and Bowen-Yag on notice. I don't think so, honey.

I feel very, very triggered by this. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Las Culturistas and listen to the full podcast now. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast. Recently, I had the honor of sitting down with the iconic Chris Jenner. Even if one of your children has been through something really difficult with their partner or an ex-partner, you still love them as part of the unit and the family. These are the fathers of my grandchildren.

And that love doesn't go away when we experience really challenging times with them. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. On this week's episode of next chapter, I, T.D. Jake, sit down with Denzel Washington, a two-time Academy Award-winning actor and cultural icon for a conversation about change, identity, and the moment everything shifted. I mean, I don't take any credit for it. It's nothing I did as special, you know, did knock down a few pegs and recognized. it, but I just didn't put me first.

I just put God first, and he's carried me. Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak to you. Listen to the next chapter podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes drop weekly. Don't miss one of them. This is an IHeart podcast.