Are You A Charlotte? - Like Mother like Daughter?! with Cathy Ang... (S2 E3 "The Freak Show")

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

Kristin's TV daughter joins her to discuss The Freak Show. Cathy Ang brings a unique perspective as they discuss Carrie's bad dates and Mr. Pussy. And, what does Charlotte's daughter think of mom in her younger years?! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. We're unpacking each episode of Season 3, sharing behind-the-scenes details from our very own Writers' Room. Details that you can only get from us, the writers' details about production and clothing and everything you'd ever want. You can stream In Just Like That Season 3 on Max. Be sure to listen to And Just Like That, the Writers' Room on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories

are set free. I'm Ebene and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969

when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death And left a woman behind to drown. Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're looking for another heavy podcast about trauma, the Saint It. This is for the ones who had to survive and still show up as brilliant, loud, soft and whole. The Unwanted Sorority is where Black women, femmes and gender expansive survivors of sexual violence rewrite the rules on healing, support and what happens after. And I'm your host and co-president of this organization,

Dr. Lea TraTate. Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Catherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their

community. I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there. Each week, I investigate a new case. If there's a case we should hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristin Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Kathy Ang is here with us. She plays Lily on In Just Like That, my pretend daughter.

That's what we call you at my house. I say, I'm going to go see my pretend daughter in New York. They're like, oh. Oh my God. Are they like Or they don't like me. No, no, they like you. They're just a little thrown off. They're my real children. They're like, oh, OK, the pretend daughter, OK. But this is the weirdness of having a mom as an actress,

an actress mom. Weird things happen. OK, we're going to discuss an episode from the second season. This episode 203 is called The Freak Show and it's really good. It aired on June 20th, 1999, you guys. Wow! It kills me when I say these dates. So the synopsis is basically, is New York full of freaks? Yes. Carrie, Charlotte, Miranda, and Samantha all date a different kind of quote freak

and wonder are they freaks as well? It's a great synopsis you guys. And this is directed by one of my favorite directors, Alan Coulter, who we are gonna have on the podcast soon. I'm so excited. He made a huge difference. He came in on the show in the first season and really shifted the show.

Like his kind of way that he moved the camera, the way that he spoke to us. He's the first person who spoke to us about talking fast and walking slow in the walk and talks. Because you run out of space if you walk as fast as you're talking. Because you tend to want to keep the rhythm the same. But you have to teach yourself to move your feet slower and let your mouth go quick.

You're not a human. You're a, like, yes. You are. You are not a normal human. It's true. This is also written by Jenny Bix, the great Jenny Bix. Yay! Okay, this is a crazy episode because this is when my character dates someone that we call Mr. Pussy. Oh, yeah. So... Charlie Schroeder call Mr. Pussy. Oh yeah.

So Charlie Schroeder played Mr. Pussy. He did a real name. It was Mitchell Saylor. But really everyone calls him Mr. Pussy and he is like a legend apparently, which is interesting. Can you imagine? I can actually. Is that real? I do think it's real.

See, this is when we're still in the era of storylines that were actually based on Candace's column. Oh my God. And Candace knowing people and having these stories be real stories from life. Whoa. Yeah. I know. That is a moniker for you.

Totally right. Wow. So all of us have really really fascinating Fascinating storylines I think in this episode and so Carrie the thing there are so many things I love about this episode But one of them is the way that it begins as Carrie's voiceover of course and she's talking about dating in Manhattan And we see images of Ellis Island Which is so crazy and then it bleeds into a couple like a sepia looking photograph bleeds into actual extras in the show that are dressed in ways that look like they're

you know like turn the century it's fascinating and it's talking about everyone came with a dream and then she talks about how single women dream of getting married which I'm just like wow would we write that today I don't know what do you think Cathy would we write that today? I don't know. What do you think, Cathy, would we write that today? For your generation, do you feel? I mean, well, part of it is also like, I don't think that my generation always thinks that way. That's what I mean, yeah, right?

Yeah, yeah. Like, there's more options, I feel. Yeah, there's a lot of options. But I don't know, I mean, like, the thing is that the show was featuring women who were like, you were looking at those stories. So like, it still makes sense. Oh, it makes sense.

I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just, I like to look at what's different now, what's not different now. No, you wouldn't write it out. You wouldn't write that as an opener to an episode that, nah, nah, nah. And then it also shows, it's like, you know, here we are in a bar on Saturday night

and there's just 30 something women everywhere just hoping to meet their man. I know it's kind of crazy, right? But I mean, this was the background of, you know, 1999. This was like the, we still hadn't kind of gotten away from it. Do you know what I'm saying? I mean, obviously our four characters

in each and every one, not my character as much, but the other three trying to get away from it, trying to create their own destiny, you know? Make choices. But I don't think that was the place that we were coming from, and that's why our show was like, kind of shocking or whatever.

So I love all of this opening. Then we see Samantha. She's on a date with a very handsome man who is named Harrison, his character, and he's a litigator. And they make some weird jokes about sexually harassed men. This conversation, yeah, I was like, this is a dicey conversation today,

but Samantha finds it hilarious. Hilarious until he says that she seems like she might be 41. And then she's upset, and it just broke my heart, because she's so perfect and beautiful Does it really look 41? Russell what does 41 mean? It means nothing That's still really young. You're young so you don't know No, no, no, no, no, I know, I know

You know what I mean? 41 is nothing. He's like well, you you know, you're an older woman. You might be 41 like it's like oh Yeah, but then we find out from Carrie that no Samantha has been turning 35 for some you're an older woman, you might be 41. Like it's like, ugh. Yeah. But then we find out from Carrie that no, Samantha has been turning 35 for so many years now. Okay, also can I say that that shot of her debating what to say there is so long.

I was like, if I asked my friend, how old do I look? And they took that long, and they took that long, and they like pursed their lip. It was so funny. I was laughing so hard. It was amazing. You're so right. Well, there's some voiceover.

So she's got to make it worse. It was just hilarious. No, you're right. It was too long. I didn't think about that. I was just thinking of the tragedy of the fact that she's upset that she might look 41. I'm just thinking about how wrong and messed up that is.

That's what I was thinking about. Oh yeah. But that's cause I'm, you know, over 41. I'm just thinking about how wrong and messed up that is. That's what I was thinking about. Oh yeah. But that's because I'm, you know, over 41. So they're there. Then, oh then, okay, then she goes back to his apartment. So he says, you might be 41. She gets kind of offended and she has to excuse herself to the bathroom. She looks in the mirror. She touches her face, which we're going to see Samantha do many times over the years. She touches her face, she's thinking about, how old do I look, do I need to do something to myself? She goes back out, it's so crazy. She goes back out, the bedroom's empty.

She's looking around, and the camera, this is an Alan Coulter thing, the camera kind of swings around her in a really cool way that's very organic, very much in sync with how Kim is moving in the scene, right? And it swings around, you see that the whole bedroom is empty and she's kind of looking around, and he calls to her from a door, and she opens his door,

and he has somehow chained himself up in like a, you know, BDSM type situation in his own closet, and he wants her to slap him really hard. Oh my gosh. I was just like, our show was crazy. OK, what a thing to walk into. Right, because 1999, you just were not seeing this on television. Oh, yeah. But just also like in just in general in life. I know I can walk into that. I probably can. It's never happened to me.

But I mean, I feel like now there's a lot more room for people to have whatever they're into. But I also feel like you wouldn't just bring that on somebody like that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, also after like they might've been clearly offended. I don't know. She plays it, she plays it.

She really covers pretty well, you know what I mean? But she clearly was just gonna do what he was gonna do. I mean, which is the theme of the men in the first couple years of our show. They're just on their own wavelength, they're gonna do their thing, and we're either gonna come along or we're not. You know what I'm saying?

So Samantha doesn't seem that into it. She's not digging it. So- It's kind of a surprise. It's a surprise for sure. And Samantha often is very amenable, but not this particular time, right? Not with this guy.

So, so she, now we're at her party, she throws a party, and Samantha's telling Miranda and Carrie about Harrison. I'm not there because I'm off meeting Mr. Pussy. I thought to myself, like, every time we have a scene in the beginning with them, I'm like, darn it, I didn't get to be that scene. Because I always used to feel like I wouldn't get to be in all the group scenes. And then I show up, I'm like, oh, thank God I'm at the bar. I'm there.

I'm there. So I come. They're talking about it. And this is when Miranda says, they're all freaks in her very Miranda way. And then she says, if a man is over 30 and single, there's something wrong with him. And Carrie asks, but what about us? I know. And Miranda says, we're all just choosy.

And she totally believes it. I'm like, yeah. That's such good writing. Right? It's such perfect writing. I know it's perfect. Because yeah, it's the audience, you know. And the thing I also love about this theme

is that in the beginning, yes, it does seem like the men are freaky. And as the show goes along, we also see a female version of freaky. And at the very end, she has this beautiful voiceover where she says, you know, in the end, aren't we all freaks? And we're just looking for someone to love our three heads. It's so great.

It's so great. I love that it ends like that. So, but it's a journey. So we're here, I show up and I say, you know, that I've met someone amazing, Mitch Saylor. And Samantha says, what? Oh my gosh, that is Mr. Pussy. He's a legend.

And I'm like, what do you mean? And she says what he's a legend at. And then I'm embarrassed and I'm like, oh, I don't know if I can date him. Then, you know, this is like Charlotte when she's really torn between- I know, you're so funny. Prudish, thank you.

She's torn like, I don't know, I don't know if I could do this. And then we have one of the many, many closeups of this very nice actor eating some crazy food and in this case it's an oyster. And I remember this like it was yesterday because there were so many takes where we all had to watch him and he's just like doing some stuff to that oyster and or later on that fig and we just all have to watch him and it was a lot.

I was like, I was like, no, no, that was my thought. I'm just thinking, no, no. I couldn't do that. I know this actor was committed. Yeah, I'm honestly proud of that. I know, oh listen, we found some committed male actors, okay, and this guy was top of the list. I know. Oh, listen, we found some committed male actors, okay? And this guy was top of the list.

I mean, he committed to that in every scene without apology. It was impressive, but also slightly scary. So this is when this very... Wait. Oh, this is interesting. We have an adorable scene of Carrie getting dressed, which I really love, because this is where you We have an adorable scene of Carrie getting dressed, which I really love, because this is where you see Sarah Jessica's true creativity. Have you ever noticed?

Probably not, because you're not re-watching all of them. There's scenes where she's getting dressed and there's a voiceover. And she finds creative ways to move about the apartment, finding her different pieces of clothing that are slung around. She bumps into walls. She trips over things.

This is Sarah Jessica's like super special physical comedy, which she will tell you she does not have, but she 100% is a skilled physical comedian. That is the worst lie she's ever told. It's true, it's true, because she's just so brilliant at it. And it's so creative, because think about like, when I get dressed, I'm super boring. Do you know what I'm saying?

I, you know, the clothes are like in one area and I put them on or whatever. I look at them, I might take them back off, but it's not so interesting. Like she's so dynamic. It's very interesting. So we have a... I bet you would be dynamic. With a kid. No.

Anyway, sorry. No. So then she says that she's going on the first blind date she's been on in two years. Now I feel this is because Carrie's pretty good at finding some mended date. She doesn't really need blind dates. But she's trying something different because she's broken up with Big, right? She's trying to like reset her dating life.

So she goes out with this documentarian who made a documentary about seagulls and then is telling her like, I care about making money. I'm just trying to make it to the action movies. And she goes really innocently, but what about the seagulls? And he's like, the seagulls. And he's smoking in her face.

I'm like, ooh, bad, bad. So she doesn't like him. So then she goes on the, oh, the movie date. They're standing in line at the movie theater. I know. That's like a, that's a big red flag. I know. If this guy just starts shouting

at these guys standing behind, I know, but this is also a 1999 thing. She still just stands there with them. She looks embarrassed. But like today, if someone just started shouting, like angrily, like basically trying to fight the guy behind you who did nothing, you would leave. Oh yeah.

Like no woman or man really, like it would not be okay. Why would you bother? Right, but also you would be like red flag like you said. But back then we were just like, oh that guy's angry. I mean like you might check like, hey are you okay? Like what's going on with you? But then like you'd probably just get out of there. Right, but she's just like, oh dear, you know

and then she goes like the man with two faces. It's crazy, how much you guys deal with. It's true, or dealt with past tense. Let's put it that way because it's a different time now. It's a different time. Yes. So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's, Teddy escapes, blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you. The story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes.

Will Ted become president? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines

and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. -♪ Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken

and stories are set free. I'm Ebene, and every Tuesday, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all, childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the shrimp to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer.

Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on the street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network.

Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Catherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband

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Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother, she was still somebody's daughter, she was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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["Finding Sexy Sweat"] Then she goes on a date with this guy Max, who's really handsome. They're basically at the Strand Bookstore, which is a famous, famous landmark. I think they're there, or they're at some less interesting street I think they are too right okay good and he puts a book in the back of his pants he steals a book and he's like a

millionaire or something yeah he's like already rich so he's just a klepto I know and also I feel like now you just be like no you just feel like no and I mean she is she doesn't go out with him again, but she doesn't leave. That's true. She knows. I mean, like, but part of that is like the most interesting thing about Carrie is that she's just experimenting. That's right.

And observing. And so she just plays things out because she just wants to know how crazy things will get. No, I think you're absolutely right. I think you're absolutely right. Which is such a good avenue for- And she wants to write about it. Yeah, exactly. And it's such a good avenue for like crazy dramas that like probably wouldn't happen

today because you know, we just wouldn't stand for it. You're absolutely right. So then she does look straight at the camera, which I was taking her back. I thought we were done with this looking at the straight at the camera, but we're in second season. She looks straight at the camera and she says, okay, now I was afraid over the book stealing, which is kind of funny. She wasn't afraid of the guy who almost hit the guy. I was afraid over the book stealing, which is kind of funny. She wasn't afraid over the guy who almost hit the guy.

She's afraid of the book stealing. So then she goes home and looks at this book about actual circus freak shows, which is kind of funny. And I enjoy it. It's very Alan Coulter. I'm going to ask him about it when we talk to him. Cut to Charlotte is with Mr. Pussy in bed. And obviously she's gonna do the work,

she's gonna try to do it, even though she told the girls that she wasn't going to. And he tells her to relax, which is kind of funny. I'm like, does he know who he's talking to? I don't think so. So funny. And just all the nervous giggling that you... Listen, that was real, okay?

I mean, it's gotta be. I'm watching that. That's Kristen dying. Yeah. It's Kristen dying that I am having to try to act like someone is going down on me and I'm going to come on camera. I'm dying. That's a very difficult... Dying.

Difficult situation. Giggle, nervous giggle, nervous giggle, which is exactly what Charlotte's going through, which is good. But then it says that the montage of Mitch going down, and apparently we don't talk, which we find out later, which is pretty entertaining as well. Like, there's no conversation. It's just this, which is funny.

And then... Once it starts. Exactly. The voiceover says that he goes down on me every day, and that on one day, Friday, Charlotte came seven times, which, wow, okay. Dang. I know, first season, I had my day where,

a week maybe, when I was addicted to the rabbit. Now I'm addicted to Mr. Pussy. And people think I'm the prude, because that's like the outward. No, you really, I mean, like, come on, we also talk about, we've talked about it so many times on this podcast already, up the butt, like, it's just like, all these things, like, come on, we also talk about, we've talked about it so many times on this podcast already, up the butt, like, it's just like,

all these things where like, what? Lily, slash Cathy. You've talked about it on the show. I thought I was allowed to. I'm so happy to now. But, but you know, I don't. This is like if my real daughter said this to me.

I'm sorry. I would die, no, it's adorable. Take a drink of your water. I know, I have that. I know, I know, this, I know. The nervous giggle just came out right now. That was it. That was it. That was totally it. Oh my God.

But it's so real. Oh my God. It's actually great to also, Charlotte's character is so fun because like, you know, if you're a woman and you have been in this situation, like that's the first time that you let yourself go like that. It's like there's so much giggling with any kind of sex, you know, like there's, it's fun, it's new, it's crazy. And it's fun we got to show it.

Yeah. Because I feel like sometimes in film and TV, it's just all like, oh, passion, passion and not real. Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. That's very relatable, very relatable. OK, so now, luckily, we move on to Carrie.

And she's at Central Park, sitting by Bethesda Fountain, I believe, or maybe, is it Bethesda? I think it's Bethesda. And this adorable guy in glasses is sitting near her. His name is Ben. The character's name is Ben. And they start chatting, which is so old school New York. It's cute.

But also I was a little worried. Like, I didn't remember this storyline at all for her. Like I don't recognize that guy. I have no idea who he is. We could look up his name, but I don't remember anything about her storyline. So I was watching it as if for the first time. And the days where you have no phone, right?

You're just sitting there looking out in the distance, right, and then some guy sitting next to you just chats with you. It's crazy. Like a stranger. It really wouldn't, it's not as easy today. No. And that's the same thing.

So that was also one of the reasons where I was like, whoa, Mr. Pussy has, like just conversations about this man. Some woman in the bathroom just overhears and joins in your conversation. These kinds of things. It's like, it's a little bit harder now. That's true. But I will say that New York is still more open to that, maybe. Like people just kind of starting conversations. People were chatting with me in the elevator yesterday, and I don't think they recognize me.

Oh, that's lovely. See, it's just like... I'm not sure, but I think, I think... I mean, I would believe it, because I think people miss that, too, when they stay in age. So it's nice to see it on camera. I agree. I agree. It's really adorable.

So these two, Ben and Carrie, start comparing their bad dates, and he says he dated a crazy one, and she's like, oh yeah, I dated a crazy one, and he was stealing books or whatever, she says. And then he says he actually doesn't date because women are bizarre, which is kind of funny. And then, of course, Carrie looks like super normal.

Hehehehehehe. So then he says, he asks her out on a non-date, and she says a non-no, which is so charming and adorable. I know, so cute. There's a line where she brings up the freaks in the circus, the world's fattest twins. Yes.

And how they managed to find... Husbands. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that they were skinny. And he says this line, which is such a brilliant, you can interpret it different ways, but like maybe it was an optical illusion. Oh my God, yes.

And I, like upon rewatch, I was so curious if that is in reference, like the audience is seeing like an optical illusion, or if it's that the spouses just like couldn't if like that was the idea. I don't know we have to ask Jenny Bix. And it's good. Because it's just like the two ways of thinking about this whole thing is like whether or not you know like Miranda thinks there are people who are freaks and there are people who are not freaks and we just haven't found the non-freaks yet. Mm-hmm. And, um, versus maybe you just like kind of convince yourself that like people aren't freaks or... Yeah. Or like you just don't think about them being freaks because you love them so much, you know?

Right. Like it's all these things. Yes! I just really like that one line. I think it's great. That actually, I gotta talk to Johnny Picks. I don't know, I don't know. Definitely, and also I thought part of the reason it reason so good is because you can see how Ben and Carrie the two characters are kind of on the same wavelength and could work out which is why it's sad what happens is they're kind of

Meeting in a really interesting kind of somewhat intellectual kind of way like a theoretical intellectual You know kind of interesting way, which is not how she usually meets people. Yes. Right? That's why I was like kind of hopeful, but then doesn't, doesn't go great, but we'll get to that. All right. Skipping. We're cut to Samantha,

who runs into this lady on the street, who literally, I think my hairdresser did her hair, cause we have the exact same hair, like I thought it was me for a second. Like, oh no, that's not me. I have like a weird little flip going on. I don't know what happened to Charlotte's hair. It's like flat to my head and then just flips. The strong side part too.

Oh, way strong. Like super side part. I know, I don't know what was happening there, but this lady who runs into Samantha also has that hairdo. Looks very nice and Samantha says, oh my God, you look amazing. Melanie says, oh, I just had this wonderful thing done. I had the fat taken out of my butt and put in my face. And she's like, and the best thing is you can eat a cheeseburger and then, boop, it's in your face. It's so good.

It's so funny and weird, but I do remember this time, because back then, you didn't talk about plastic surgery everywhere with everyone the way that people do now. Like now Instagram is all like people's new faces, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We didn't have Instagram, right? But I remember when fat transfer became like this new thing. We were like, what? They do what? Like, are you kidding me? It was a crazy idea.

And there were people around like Upper East Side Manhattan, which is where Samantha is when she runs into this lady, doing it. And we were like, so and so did it. Are you kidding me? We've got to see her face. Like we were fascinated. This was the first time that I remember separate from like boob jobs that you would hear about people doing, you know, that would have been a thing for a while. This is the first thing that I remember hearing about, like face-wise, that people we knew who were not that much older than us were actually doing,

that we were just like, oh my God. Like it was big news, you know what I'm saying? So they wrote it into the show, which I thought was great. And obviously now this is very not interesting, I guess. Or common. I mean, like, I also think... I guess it is common, but it's also like people get a lot more butt injections. And like the way that it has swung over.

Right, but that yes, back then... Because then Samantha says something like, all this time we've been trying to hide the fat in our butts. Or maybe Miranda says it. Miranda says it. Right, but now, I mean, this is not true anymore. Oh, yeah. You want that there. Or like some people want that there. You know, like everyone. Not everybody. Right. But I mean, I spent at least a decade trying to hide my ass on the television.

Like I had a boyfriend at one point who was like, I don't like your TV butt as much. I like the regular one. And I was like, well, that's why I'm with you, you know? Awwww! I mean, one of the reasons. But you know what I'm saying? It was a nice compliment because I really thought that, like, that was not supposed to be there.

Like, you had to hide that thing. [♪ music playing, fades out. So, what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News.

It's, Teddy escapes, blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you. The story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal.

The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebene, and every Tuesday, is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebene and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all, childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the strength to make it to the other side.

My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines

into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder.

I'm Catherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. I've never found her and it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned

as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother, she was still somebody's daughter, she was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for.

If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley, comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated.

I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on May 21st and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple podcasts. The summer of 1993 was one of the best of my life. I'm journalist Jeff Perlman, and this is Rick Jervis. We were interns at the Nashville Tennessean. But the most unforgettable part? Our roommate, Reggie Payne, from Oakland,

sports editor and aspiring rapper. And his stage name? Sexy Sweat. In 2020, I had a simple idea. Let's find Reggie. We searched everywhere, but Reggie was gone. In February 2020, Reggie was having a diabetic episode. His mom called 911.

Police cuffed him face down. He slipped into a coma and died. I'm like thanking you. But then I see my son's not moving. No headlines, no outrage, just silence. So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own. Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So, Samantha tells us all that she is going to be getting the fat transfer, that she's already gotten the lipo and she's wearing a girdle. And so we have to see her in her girdle, which is really entertaining. They shoot it very tastefully. And then I say that I'm meeting Mitch, I'm calling him Mitch. And then I think, I, Charlotte think that we have a future together and they all are just like,

and Samantha very smartly says, you cannot have a future with Mr. Pussy because you haven't even been out to dinner or know anything about each other. And she is so right, right? So then, then weirdly, Carrie goes on a double date and tries to set Miranda up with a friend of Ben's, her glasses guy.

And this guy is really cute, but he has never left Manhattan, which the girls think is bad Which I'm like that's so weird that they think it's bad Well, but it's like I think it's one thing to not leave but like another thing to like also scoff That's true somewhere else to be so Aggressive about like a kid guys very mad But it's funny because I always think of them as being so our girls are so Manhattanites. You know what I mean?

But whatever they're like that guy's angry whatever so then I do love this Miranda says that she has to go home and feed her cat which we learned from the voiceover is the code That Miranda and Carrie have together. Do you have a code? Did you know? No, never? Okay, I mean, I think we would just look at each other and just be like, yeah, it's true Big eyes. Like if we were in that kind of situation your your date probably wasn't even paying enough attention to know that you were like, hey. Totally. Totally. No, I don't think I was creative enough to have a code, but I do think it's a really good thing to have with your friends. I think it's a good idea. So then poor Charlotte tries to go on a dinner date with Mr. Pussy and it doesn't go well because he has nothing to say.

He just wants to eat a peach or like what? Yeah, it's a fig at that point I think. Yeah, it's a fig and it's a lot going on and I'm sitting real close to him and I had to just try to keep it together, you know what I mean? Ooh wee, so then poor Samantha has to go off to the plastic surgeon and then she says

that it's like shopping, so she wants to see what else she could get while she's there. And he draws all kind of crazy pictures on her. And then you see sweet Samantha, who's so perfect, looking in the mirror, and she seems really sad. So I felt really bad for her. I felt bad for her a couple times. It was so sad.

It's actually a really sad episode with the body shaming there and like... I mean look, this is our culture. This was for reals. Like the 2000s? I mean there are people on the Instagram also like the 2000s with the low cut jeans? It was terrorizing, okay? You were too young.

Well, yes, but I saw it. Okay, so let's go on with the show. So then, oh were too young. Well, yes, but I saw it. Okay, so let's go on with the show. So then, oh, this is adorable. So this is when Carrie's with the guy in the glasses, Ben. She spent the night, it's gone really well. He's adorable, he has to go to his, I believe his soccer game, or his football game, or something, in the morning, and he leaves her there,

and very much like that early episode where Miranda goes looking through her dates private belongings. Carrie just rips through this man's things. I mean with abandon. She's like, like she's like the FBI searching for clues, you know, for a murderer, right? Like it's a lot. It's a lot. She gets carried away to use a phrase. Is that why they named her Carrie? No. Okay.

It comes later. That comes later. But she also in the voiceover says that she's taken over with the need to find this man's particular freaky side. You know, now she's scared that they're all freaks, and so she's trying to find the clues to what kind of freak is he, at which point, of course, he comes back in the apartment and he's so devastated. And I felt really bad for this guy.

Cause he's like, you seem normal. And she says, yeah, I was. It's sad. It's so sad and so sweet at the same time. And then she has to leave. I'm like, couldn't they try harder? Couldn't they have a deeper conversation? Yeah, it's true.

But he, I guess, didn't want. But also, I got to, I mean, well, I guess because it was found, their spark was founded on the fact that they were both sick of freaks. Right. So I understand where he's coming from. It's a good point.

Yeah, but I also, like, okay, I gotta say, the way that they, like, shot this, the style is different with Alan Coulter. Yeah. And like, it's very apparent and like, Carrie, I don't know if this was in, I read it. Like she really wasn't actually as passionate in this episode.

Like there was something about it where like it felt, their chemistry was sweet, but I didn't feel anything. No, you're so right. And I actually was like, oh, they're really painting it. They're like, oh, if you're not a freak, you're just so boring. This guy played it perfectly. The guy played it perfectly, but I was just like,

I don't remember who, you don't even know. No, I don't remember him at all. No, he made no impression on me. It's just so boring. I know, that's interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Yeah. But I think that's also why I thought,

oh, maybe this is good. And then suddenly it's not. But I also think this reminds me of something Sarah said to me when I tried to talk to her about Big. And of course, she's been in it so long. I don't know why I thought she could talk objectively about Big. But one of the things she did say

was that Carrie is exotic to Big. Big is not creative. Big is not full of feelings and conflict, you know, full of feelings and conflicted and all of the different things that Carrie is, right? So she's exotic to him, which I kind of forget about. And then, like, if you think about this with this guy, she's too much for that guy, you know? And that's why her freaky side comes out, like trying to find the secrets that he's keeping because he seems so normal. But I think in reality he was just normal and

possibly boring. He went to go see a soccer game. Like I feel like in 1999 that's that's supposed to mean that you're kind of... No, no that was super common. Well but that's what I'm saying. Right, no I just mean like all the crazy people went to the soccer games and the baseball games as well. Like on the weekend in Central Park like that thing was full of people playing soccer and baseball in the olden days. It really was, it wasn't full of tourists. I just don't know how to get out of my hovel,

whatever it is, my, yeah. Your apartment, you don't wanna go? No, I do, I actually do. I don't wanna be homebody. But I just met like there's so many people who are like active and good with, I don't know what to be homebody. But I just met like there's so many people who are like active and good with... I don't know what I'm saying anymore. You're funny. You're adorable.

This is what happens towards the end of a podcast. You're just saying stuff. You don't know what. Let me just read the last thing. This is good. No, this is how I feel too. Voiceover of Carrie saying, I became the woman, the frightening woman whose fear ate her sanity. That's a pretty deep... She's a very interesting thing. I became the woman, the frightening woman whose fear ate her sanity. That's a pretty deep, she's a very interesting thing.

I mean, I think I've definitely felt that way before in my life where- If you haven't- What? If you haven't, you're not examining yourself closely enough. Just kidding. No, no, I do think that's true, but I also think like, if you've lived it all, right?

And taken chances, taken risks, gone out of your comfort zone, you know, been vulnerable to somebody, like you're going to feel a little crazy at some point. Yeah. You know, you're going to feel a little crazy, a little freakish, you're going to lose your sanity, this is all part of it. And then she says the adorable thing about how, if you're single, everyone gets freaked out from time to time, but you can still have hope.

It's adorable. But a little bit sad. But adorable. I loved all of our storylines. I thought they were super interesting. Yeah. I mean, everyone was like... Did you think how young we were when you watched this?

Were you like, look at them little children? Well, OK, part of it is also on this show, most of the time I'm getting to see you be my mom. Yes. And then this episode, you- Not your mom. No, no, no, you are not, Miss V. You really are not.

And so it's always fun on the rewatch, just seeing, as we talked about on, I guess, the previous episode, your growth of you're experiencing so many new things, but at the same time, you've always had this desire for a family and watching that version of a woman who also gets to be kind of kiddish at times in this episode. It's very endearing to see that through Lime though.

Yeah, for sure. I agree. I mean, yeah. Charlotte definitely has her hope and she has her innocent side and also her fear, you know, she has some fear about things, but she also tries stuff, which is, you know, great. That's the best part of her. You're not a prude.

Who says that you're really not a prude? Thank you, Kathy. I agree. So many people for like 10 years thought that Charlotte was a prude, and wherever I went, they'd be like, oh, you're the prude, and I'd be like, whatever. I guess you're the prude in the sense that

sometimes you don't like talking about it. Right. But you actually just love doing it. I don't know. I mean, I feel like that's what I've seen on the show. Well, I think also it's all in relationship, right? So Samantha talks a big game. But then sometimes in these early episodes,

you really see the vulnerable side of her too, which I think is also just the great writing and acting of everybody. Everyone has both sides, right? But I think because also just the great writing and acting of everybody, like everyone has both sides, right? But I think because there were four of us and we were all so different, everyone kind of got pigeonholed like, oh, Charlotte is the prude who wants to get married, Miranda is the cynic, you know,

Carrie is the dreamer, whatever, I don't know what they think of her, whatever, I don't know how to describe Carrie, the complicated one, and Samantha is the, you know, how do we describe Samantha she's the you know the event or free she's free Daniel how would you she's the free spirit yes she's a free spirit and she's she's she's bold she does whatever she wants without apology. In her work too, it's the same.

Like it's the same. For sure. She's very bold. I agree. She's bold and doesn't apologize. Takes no prisoners. I know. Even some of them will just show up in a closet for her.

She doesn't need to do anything. No, she doesn't need to do anything. Wow. What a woman. It's so true. Well, Cathy, thank you for being with us for our whole adventure. Thank you for having me. It was a fun day.

This was a really fun day. Thank you for being with us. I love hanging out with you. I love hanging out with you. Also, I love to hear a different perspective from a much younger person on our old episodes. It's really helpful. Well, we're, I feel like we're on the same page.

We definitely are, but it's interesting just to hear you go, oh yeah, no, that wouldn't be okay now. Like, you know, it's just like a no brainer for you. Oh yeah, no, that would be a red flag. You know, like that's what I love about your generation. You're just like, yeah, no, that's not good. No, that's not okay. Well, it's because shows like this have existed where people started examining the behavior.

I cannot believe, I mean every person that I talk to and there's so many people who are my age who are watching it for the first time and they're like, this was 20 years ago? This is so- 30. Oh yeah, this is 30. Oh my goodness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was 30 years ago and they're like,

amazed how relevant it is, relevant it is today. And then like, yeah, it's just, it's complicated. The story is complicated and like, it's like such a deep dive into romance. I know and expectations. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I didn't think about that growing up. No? I don't think I thought about these things growing up either. Yeah. Yeah. Or like I didn't have the foresight to question societal dating behavior, you know. I had the foresight to

question some assumptions because I grew up in this very southern thing where Everyone was expected to get married at the first possible chance, which I just thought was very very weird Yeah, so I was like no. Yeah That was me though Yeah, wasn't anybody else that I knew you dirty That's why you're on the show. Yeah. That is why I'm on the show. That is why I'm on the show. That's why I'm so lucky that I found the show.

I mean, obviously lucky in many different ways. But yeah, I really was like, yes, this is special. This is different. I love it. I know. Thank you. Thank you. We'll have to have you back.

I don't know when we're going to go back to work. I know. We'll just be here until then. We'll make it happen, yeah. If not, then we'll just start our own podcast. Totally, you and Alexa could have a young person's podcast? Oh my God, you know, we could do a multi-generational, the three of us, if we do one.

Can you imagine if it was like- It would be so funny. Yeah. I can't even imagine what she would say. We would just do, like half of the time I would just be asking like, what does that word mean that you just came up with? Please, please update me on the slang. Which I know is what everyone says,

but it's a, I cannot keep up. No, I know her group has it different. I know Jemma, my daughter has the same group and yeah. She has to, she gives me definitions. That's good. That's really sweet of Jemma. It is, it is. Kids, could you please keep doing that without judging us for nothing?

Oh, they judge. They judge, it's fine. Okay, well sure. They roll their eyes, it's fine. Fine, fine, I get it. All right, thanks everyone for joining us. Thank you. Come back next time.

Thank you. Come back next time. Thank you. Come back next time. Thank you. Come back next time. Thank you. Hello, lovers.

I'm Michael Patrick King, writer, director, and executive producer of The Max Original and Just Like That. And I'm honored to be the host of the official Max companion podcast and Just Like That, The Writer's Room. You'll hear from me and the brilliant writers behind the show. Together we'll be unpacking each episode of season three, sharing behind the scenes details from our very own Writer's Room. Details that you can only get from us,

the writers' details about production and clothing and everything you'd ever want. You can stream In Just Like That season three on Max. Be sure to listen to And Just Like That, the writer's room on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free.

I'm Ebene and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. Every Tuesday make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jeff Perlman. And I'm Rick Jervis. We're journalists and hosts of the podcast, Finding Sexy Sweat. At an internship in 1993, we roomed with Reggie Payne, aspiring reporter and rapper who went by Sexy Sweat. A couple of years ago, we set out to find him.

But in 2020, Reggie fell into a coma after police pinned him down and he never woke up. Well, then I see my son's not moving. So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own. Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're looking for another heavy podcast about trauma, this ain't it.

This is for the ones who had to survive and still show up as brilliant, loud, soft, and whole. The Unwanted Sorority is where black women, Femmes, and gender-expansive survivors of sexual violence rewrite the rules on healing, support, and what happens after. And I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Lea TraTate. Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.