Are You A Charlotte? - Michael Patrick King Returns

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

Michael Patrick King explains how important it was for him that the four women felt good about their storylines.  And, Kristin and Michael reveal a scene that they might not be able to do today as matter-of-factly as they did then.They both provide a deep analysis of Aiden with unexpected results.And, why is Kristin so hard on her performance…Michael weighs in.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It is. It's the return of Are You a Charlotte and me? That's right. We love it so much. And he asked me how long we were going to go. And I said as long as he wants to talk. Because this whole season, when I saw you, we talked. Back in the olden days?

No, like a week ago or whatever. Like at the human rights, beautiful time that we were honoring you. Human rights campaign. So exciting, the human rights campaign. Thank you so much. You said that you were going to help me with my season four amnesia. Yeah. You want to start there?

Yeah, because I don't know why I have it. I love season four. Oh, I love season four too. I love season four. Me too. In my mind, it was one with season three. Do you mean? In my mind, people always say to me, oh, I want to do sex in the city again.

I love sex in the city and I always go, you love sex in the city season four. That's where it peaked. Definitely. of its clarity. Yes. One was like, what? Totally. And finding it and then two and three.

But four is like, you, you all are so strong and so vibrant. And the writing has gotten to such a place where there's so many exciting twists and turns. And the amount that we talked about. So much. The changing of Charlotte. So much. So much. changing of Miranda.

Yes. The amount of bravery in the writing room. Yes. Oh, no joke. It's incredible. It is not. It is like what would really happen? Let's feel that and follow that.

This reminds me of something that I wanted to talk to you about. So what I remember, and I know that most shows don't have this, and it was such a joy that you would sit us down. Hi, darling. It's Michael Patrick King, you guys. We're in. Okay. We're in. Remember how you would call us and or have lunch with us.

depending on what city. Yeah, before each season, I gave you the out-of-town tryout. Exactly. Here's what I'm thinking for Charlotte. Right. And it was such a joy because most executive producer showrunners do not do that to their actors, for their actors, which is so insane to me. You know, it's interesting because if you're on a show that is working or our show,

so much of what we're doing is for you, the actress. Yeah. So much is based on your version of Charlotte in seasons one, two, and three that I also always felt I not only owed it to you, but I wanted a temperature check from you. Nice. About whether you were going to be excited about where we were going. And also, I loved bringing you surprise. Yeah, I was so exciting. Yeah. But it was really a tribute to you guys that I wanted you as partners emotionally in the arc of these characters that we created

together. Yeah, yeah. But literally, it wasn't like go to work, do these lines. No. Not on that show. because we were literally taking from you, what can you do? What can we do with that? What would be so great is if Charlotte couldn't get pregnant and Miranda did. I'm talking about coulda woulda, shoulda. Yeah. The idea of that contrast is based on both your strengths as an actor and also your connection as people by this point.

Yeah. You all were sort of in love with each other. So it was really easy to play the hurt when the friendships didn't connect. Yeah. And always so scary. I remember just being so nervous about that if we ever had the disagreements. Yeah. Because we did have, it was felt threatening just personally because I did, you know, we loved each other.

I think by season four, if it's going well, you believe your character. You believe it. Yeah, yeah. So it's all very personal. It's so personal. Everything's personal. Totally. So when it's hard for me to remember the first time.

Like I feel like it would have been, I feel, I don't remember pre-season two a sit-down. Though maybe it happened and I don't remember it. I don't know. I remember season three when we were really having the long arcs. Conversations. And the long conversations about the long arcs, right? I think it became important when we started to deviate from the long arcs. logline for sexy singles in Manhattan.

Right. The minute we started going, what would happen to Charlotte? And I said, Charlotte would get married. This is bullshit that she isn't going to just drive that car to some wedding because it's time. And that's when we started having to say, I know what we started with, but here's what we're thinking. And then I could see these out-of-town tryouts in your eyes. I could see the lighting up, which was necessary for me to keep going. Right.

Because it was always before they were written. Right. It was just the plan. The white word. Got it. The journey each season. And did you talk to HBO about that too? Or did you wait and turn in the scripts?

I talked to you guys first. Right. And then I talked to them. Cool. But I wanted to have a strong emotional connection. First, it starts in the writing room. We all sort of fall in love or fall out of love with the story that we were. are doing and that is the first jury room it's like we all put the stories on trial and then when i feel

really strong about that i bring them to you and then i see you as an audience slash hybrid actor playing this part react right and then that's everything got it and then i go and say this is what we're doing don't audition the season or the studio got it we're always very very very very very interesting, you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Do you remember the time, and this would have been,

this would have been fourth season. See, in my mind, I had crunched third season and fourth season into one, I think also because we were doing so many episodes, right? Yeah. It was a lot. It was television. Yeah, the old and day television.

Exactly, exactly. Like 18, was it 18 for each? Yeah, I feel like. Sometimes. Yeah, I feel like four was 18 and three, both 18. Yeah. Crazy. Right.

Right? So great. And they're just. Just each one is packed, packed, packed, packed with plot for each character. Like, it's so good. Yeah. So. And 30 minutes.

I mean, insane. Like what you guys could accomplish writing. The weaving of all those storylines and with coulda would or shoulda, it was the ideal thing. Because we always tried to find a story where everybody could react based on who they are. Yes. So Miranda getting pregnant was both comic because of the Steve one ball runner. And unbelievable that we would risk that. Yes.

Give the one who was the least maternal in our eyes, the mother. Contrasting hard crash into Charlotte's inability to become pregnant. Right. And then the very, very balzy thing, which is this episode's about abortion. Right. And tell us about that. How did you talk about it in the writer's room? How did you talk about it with HBO?

Was there worry? There was worry in the writing room. And there was a necessity in the writing room to tell the story. Yeah. And the journey really was about people's personal touches to their friends who had had abortions or I'm not saying anyone in the room had had had abortions. Right. Everyone had a situation that they had touched their friendships or themselves about what would really happen and how people, people, weren't talking about that.

Right. And there's a line in the show that I remember being radical is Samantha saying, I've had two. How many have you had? Right. I remember that. I mean, even rewatching, I'm like, oh, my God. We're so brave.

It was brave. Right? I've had two. How many have you had? And Carrie actually takes a moment and goes, one? Like, what am I you? Right. Right, right, right.

The idea of saying I've had two as a legitimate sentence in a show. Right. Could you even say that now? I don't think so. That's the other thing I wanted to ask you. Like, isn't it nutty? How we, I felt at the time that we were doing something different and that it was going to help shift things in our, you know, TV landscape, cultural landscape, what was okay to talk about. And I feel like it did for a while.

And then TV is kind of, or streaming, whatever we're supposed to call it now, has pulled, pulled back from fear. The trick with us is we got in with like the comedy. Yeah. Of the sex. Yeah. And that was the shocking thing. But it was not just sex. It was funny sex. Yeah. Sex with the laugh. Yeah. So we slid in. That was the calling card. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. We're like, hey, it's funny. Yeah. You're laughing and we're not asking you to be aroused. In fact, if you are aroused, there's something wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And then slowly we became to slip in other things. that women were talking about and not talking about on television. Right.

But still they're not talking about on television. For sure. And not walking down the street after Hermes with a kerchief on her head. I know. Saying I've had two. What have you had? Totally. You know, like the casual, sophisticated, grown up, real life.

Real life. Yeah. In a very stylized frame. Of course. Real life. And was anyone at HBO worried? No. Which is, we just had such a way miracle.

I mean, we had a wonderful, wonderful experience there. Yeah. It was always be you. Don't even be TV. Yeah. Be HBO. Yeah. Don't be that.

Be whatever that is. And they followed us and they trusted us because we rarely went too far in any direction where it was the audience got pushed away. Well, that was the joy. having the different characters and the different perspectives. Well, yes. Charlotte's perspective makes the Miranda's story tolerable for an enormous amount of people. Right, right, right.

And also, okay, I remember that at one point, it was at least floated to me that we were both going to get pregnant. And then we were going to contrast our different mothering styles. And then at a certain point, you called me and said, I'm really sorry, Charlotte's not going to get pregnant. I was like, what? Like, because of course, I wanted what Charlotte wanted, which was to get pregnant, right? And you said that because no one, it was even really in relationships in the writer's room at that point, much less having children, right? At that point in our lives, you were like, we just don't have enough story material to be contrasting. Yeah, same-sies.

Yeah. Like, oh, you're pregnant's this, my pregnancy, this. And it's so much more interesting for Charlotte to do her pregnancy through Miranda. Yeah. All the way to the baby shower. Oh, yeah. You know, like how Charlotte would do the baby shower. So it's always better if you have one person experiencing something and everybody reacting to it.

And we got Charlotte there eventually. Yeah, definitely, definitely. And she needed to have a longer journey. But it was so much more authentic too. I agree. I agree totally. And the struggle was so good for you as an actor. Definitely.

And so good for Charlotte. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IR Radio. Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must have party bangers, plus personalized and curated playlists, like Back in the Day Pride. Come together, celebrate, love.

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We created our own podcast. called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers... This is how you guys remember. going down? Yes. I have a very different memory

of this. We were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I broke down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. On Humor Me with Robert Smygle and Friends, we help make you funnier on this episode. My guest's Bob Oden Kirk and Kids in the Hall. Bruce McCoha try and help the Kazoo Kid and Tayson Day be famous again. What if there's an alternate universe show where you guys are incredibly popular? Well, and they could travel up the land doing meet and greets. They're constantly needed at malls.

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Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. My Hyundai Hot Take is going to have to go with the Miranda Charlotte scene on the street because it is the first scene that Cynthia and I have just by ourselves. And I love it. And it's so beautifully written and it's so beautifully filmed out there. I believe we're on Fifth Avenue. All kinds of people.

And I love her performance so much. I love how she walks behind me. So it's really, really sweet. That's going to be my Hyundai hot take celebrating iconic moments, bold moves, and unforgettable style, just like Hyundai. It is interesting to watch because, you know, at the time I was watching everything and micro, you know, criticizing myself in my head. And now, you know, how I do that.

Yeah, I know. It's hard for us. I feel bad for you. I know. I feel bad for all actors. It's true. I mean, I get the joy of writing them stuff and watching them do it and editing in them and falling in love with them from a not inside them point of view.

And I always say to actors, can you even see how good you are? Not at the time. No. They look away and they don't feel it. It's true. it. It's true. It's so much a part of my job is to feel so excited and happy for the work that people have done. Like, it's my favorite part of the job is to see people accomplish, even in the writing room. Yeah. To see people accomplish something amazing. You're an excellent mentor.

Thank you. I am. Yes. But actors can't ever step outside themselves and feel it the way the audience is. and I have called you so many times and said, did you watch the episode? No, I'll get to it. No, the kids have to be asleep. No, I won't. No, I can't. I won't be able to go to sleep if I watch it.

It's afraid to watch it. It's true. All of it is true. All of it is true. And I feel that way with network notes. Yes. If they come in after 5 o'clock and I see an email, I'm like, I'm not reading those.

I'll fall asleep. I can't fall asleep. Right. I'll ruin my day tomorrow for an hour. Totally. But like, I felt bad because I've also, I've called you in harassing. you and had to imprint on you.

Yes. How special it is. Thank you. And I appreciate that. I appreciate that deeply. No, no. There's no purpose of me calling. I feel it.

And this episode is particularly thrilling. I'm so glad you're here for this episode, right? This is what goes on with me. And I think the joy, many joys of this podcast, one is that I get to have you here to talk about it. My joy, too. Thank you. There's so many elements that.

like we weren't able to talk about at the time because we're just in it, right? And it was so all encompassing. Plus the distance. Yes. To see it now. Yes. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. When I watched this yesterday because I knew I was coming here. I was like bang. Yeah. On all cylinders. Agreed. There's jokes. There's pain. There's style. Yeah. It's beautifully filmed by David Frank. Oh my God. Incredible. You know who went on to do Prada. I know. And Prada too. And Prada too. I mean, it has an elegant film quality to it. It's very. sure of itself. Yes.

But yet, surprising. Definitely. And all that time has gone by and I still go, wow. Me too. Me too. And that's what I was going to say about watching myself, right? Because at the time, we would get the VHS tapes. We would run home, put them in nervously, nervously, right?

And there might be a card or there might be temp music or whatever, but still it would be so thrilling. But also, when I'd come on, I'd be like, oh, I don't think I'd nailed that. You know, you're just so critical, right? I know. But now 30 years almost later, I'm like, wow. I was so much better than I thought I was. And then every once while I'm like, no.

That's interesting. And I wonder. I wonder. I couldn't help but wonder. Exactly. Is that part of the important mix that when you're doing it, you don't think you're good? Like if you were good,

would you be different? I think you'd be less vulnerable. Yeah. Do you mean? Yeah. And that is key. Yeah. Less unsure. Right. You need to have some unsure. Especially, it depends on your character, obviously, right? But like if there's no vulnerability,

like even if you think about Merrill playing, you know, whatever her name is in the... Miranda, Prasley. Thank you. How could I forget? Weird that is Miranda. You know, if she weren't Merrill and weren't playing all those layers, it wouldn't be as brilliant. It would be hard, right? Like you have to keep some kind of vulnerability. unsure, you know, off, you're slightly off balance, you know, depending on the character, of course, but for me. Yeah, well, now I've worked with you for so many amazing years. You know me better than I know myself.

Vibrations of storytelling. Yes. That in this one, too, I love it. You're going to have to endure this, but I love it when the emotion overwhelms your performance. Like when you pick in this episode, when you take out. the result. And I want to point out something. You take out the paper after you've coming from an infidelity moment. Yes. Good writing with the proof. Yeah. And when you hold it up to her,

you the actor or you the Charlotte knew it was upside down. Yep. You took it out of your purse and you corrected it. You were in a moment. And then your voice cracked. I love that part. That part, yes. There are other parts of that scene that I'm like, I could have done better. Okay. But the that I love. They're also amazing. I mean, and I think everyone else. And the fact that we were able to swing that storyline over to Carrie

and have it be a Carrie Aden thing. I've forgotten that. And like how a moment of shame, which is always so important. Yes. When a character suddenly realizes I'm ashamed of something. Right. And then they have to admit it.

Right. And then Corb it's so open. And then the weird trick of don't tell, there's a lot of great knitting like it's all knit together. It's so great. It's so great.

It's so great. And the thing that I was thinking about with that, which we've been, you know, this whole season, I'm like, what would Michael Patrick say about X or Y or Z?

So you're here now, so I'm going to ask you. When, so with the Aden in general. I have a lot of opinion about X, Y, and Z. Thank God. That's why we love you.

So one of the reasons. When Aiden comes back, it is so fascinating, right? because like we've, you know, I'm re-watching. I'm having all different feelings about big because it's time has passed and whatnot. And I have a lot of different feelings about Aden. I love Aden.

And he's very complicated because Corbett brings so much to him, right? And you guys really open him up when he comes back. But he's less like the anti-big, which is kind of how he starts out, right? But like in this particular episode two, the complexities are just so much with, he doesn't have a lot, But she's, I feel her through line in this particular season at least is that she feels like he wants something slightly different. You know, it's like when she has to stop smoking the first time. Yeah. Right.

Did you guys perceive it that way? Yes. Got it. He wanted a perfect image of her. Got it. And an abortion doesn't go in that. So, and would you connect it all back, like even from the beginning when she's like, I'm at. Yeah.

And Aiden wanted Carrie to be a certain way. And the struggle was, and it always, it carried all the way through to their eventual breakup on it, and just like that. That's what I. She wasn't ever going to be that way. Interesting. And he tried, and they both tried. And we all love people, but there's something in him. He says a line when he, they're in the fountain, when they're going to get married after the party.

And he says, I want to get a ring on it. I want to lock this down. Yes. And that was a very male line that I heard from one of the. the crew members. And I was like, oh, that's so male and so straight guy. You got to lock this down. You got to get a ring on it. Yes. And Aiden has that quality. And the great thing about Corbett is he it's not his main color. His main color is love and playfulness. But he brought all that and it's sort of added to the don't disappoint me guy. Right. So I couldn't date a smoker. That everybody understands. And

then that puts in Carrie's mind, I can't be with someone who had an abortion, even though he never said it. Right. And he accepts it. And she actually says to him at that scene, which I love, what I love about being able to write a show for years and grow the characters and in a city, you can put so much of real life in it. Like the idea is I've never seen another scene show where characters have to wait in line for a table. So good. But then they have to to wait in line for a bar. Totally. Which then gives us the opportunity to do a cool scene.

Yeah. Where they're drinking beer out of bottles. On the street. That idea of being able to do like, how many times have I waited and just had to wait? And the odd non-romance part of it, the casual big conversation, rather than the big conversation, big scene. Yeah. You know, and the other thing that I love about writing is I, Carrie's man that she got pregnant from,

oh my God, the waiter. At the saloon. Incredible. I worked at the saloon. So in that era, I was one of those waiters at the saloon. So it was still there. And my biggest fear was that I would still be. a waiter 20 years later. And so then we wrote a character who was still a waiter 20 years later.

It was like a knife to the gut. And here's the big personal story. When I worked at the saloon, I was a day waiter, which they called AMs because you came into 11 and you worked till 4. Got it. You did not make the big money. The night waiters were called PMs. And they would come in and dump attitude on the AIDS. Like I would be cleaning the cappuccino thing, hitting the thing, And the P.Ms would come by and they would go like, hi. And I'd be like, you're a waiter too. Like, you're a PM, so you're better than me. We're all still waiting on tables.

So I had this. And the saloon was a very notoriously rough place to work. The manager was tough. And I actually quit that restaurant because they wouldn't let any waiters get anyone to cover for them for Christmas. What? And they said, the manager put a big, sign up that said anyone who doesn't work their Christmas shift has the pleasure of

fucking firing themselves. Oh my God. And I was like, hmm, waiting Christmas. So I took the tables just to be covered in butcher paper. So I took a giant ream of butcher paper and put up over the time clock, I have had the pleasure of fucking firing myself. Wow. And walked out. And to this day, people say, I was at the saloon when you had the pleasure of fucking fire. Oh my God. But the story is how it relates to us as we filmed at the saloon and I was executive producing and sitting with next to Frankel at a table where I used to fold napkins. Unbelievable.

For the AM shift. Unbelievable. And I was like, this is fantastic. Fantastic beyond belief. When that guy, when she goes, you know, because I had totally forgotten Carrie's storyline, right? Which is the joy of the rewatch. You know, you don't remember all of it. And I was like, oh my God, this is so good that she lies.

And then she's, but she's talking to us, honestly. And then she's trying to figure out how to tell him. But he obviously has so many quiet judgments going on, right? They should be telling Steve. They should be doing that. Which I feel for him too. He's stuck in the middle of it all. Right.

And then when she goes back to the sleut, I'm like, oh, my gosh, she's going to be there with this and then, I mean, because I was around, you know, in the later 80s, right? And I didn't work there, but I was a waitress in town. I mean, it was a very specific time of the culture, you know? And we would all go to the Odeon because it's openly, you know. Talk about tower. All of it. They went to tunnel.

Tunnel. Tunnel. They talked about tunnel. And he's like, no, I didn't go. But when that guy walks out, because she sits down and the guy, the one that weird. I mean, you literally are just like, oh, my God. Excellent casting because he looks so sad. Still handsome.

But he's got the hair. A little bit deflated. Definitely. But the hair's still there. Yeah, he's cute. You saw who he was. But he's definitely worn down, right? Because he doesn't even.

You know, but like literally. that is the joy of being able to write Sex and the City when it was on HBO because they were 30 minutes, no commercials. You could get a lot of story in. Everyone could have a story. And you could have like these sort of epic morals. The moral of the story is friends. Like when Charlotte shows up with those beautiful white hydrangees, Charlotte. Yay. And she says, these flowers, or for whatever flowers are supposed to do in a situation like this, she does not approve, but she shows up and loves.

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Number one hits, millions of records sold. Awards, sold out tours. You think that Jonas brothers are satisfied? Nope. It's podcast time. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Hey, Jonas is available now and their first guest is a big one. Paul Rudd. You know, Steve Carell is a great singer. Can you tell you not to audition at the office or something? I told him. Whoa. We were filming Anchorman.

Clearly, I was the idiot. Thank God he didn't listen to him, right? Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Humor Me with Robert Smygo and Friends, we help make you funnier on this episode. My guest's Bob Oden Kirk and Kids in the Hall's Bruce McCullough try and help the Kazoo Kid and Tazahn Day be famous again. What if there's an alternate universe show? where you guys are incredibly popular. Well, and they could travel up the land,

doing meet and greets. They're constantly needed at malls. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygel and friends on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. on the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context,

and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action, with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Also, the thing that was so great, because I didn't really remember that scene. Of course, I remember the walking on the street scene because I think I was predominantly worried about that scene. As my producers point out, it's the first time that Cynthia and I have had a scene by

ourselves. Isn't that adorable? That's a very big deal. Right. By design, probably. Well chosen. Right. Couldn't be more perfect.

And I remember. And then it was also so. Unique. So unique. Unheard of. Don't walk. Right. And the line, she knew she was there.

The voiceover, really. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a really great. It's really good. And then Miranda says, I saw you see me. You know, like the honesty of it all. This is what I see when I'm watching myself in that scene.

The way it begins. See, the other thing I was thinking about, because of course, I did watch it last night before bed. So then I did lay in bed and think about it a lot because it. because it still is very stimulating for me, like us in general, part of why I love us, part of why I want to work together until we die, is because it's overstimulating. Do what I'm saying?

It's so much. Yeah. You know, it's like all the things. It's rich and exciting and we know each other. And you guys write like with everything, like everyone is laying it out there, right? I love that. And that's what we all want, right?

But then it's also overstimulating when you're just trying to live your life and sleep. But when I watched it. Sleep in your death. It's true. It's true. It's true. But then, yes, but of course my child makes me up at six and a year. Yeah, it's true. But no, I mean, it's more about just trying to do the best that you can do with all of it, right? And some of it is great to be overstimulated because then you're processing and you're thinking about the things and how did this happen and what do I remember versus what I see when I look at it, right? And what I remember was being nervous and feeling like Cynthia was very very there for me. And I do 100% remember the paper situation because I think Frankl was like, oh, I want you to get the paper. but you have to hold things higher on film so that everyone can see them in the take higher than you feel comfortable or whatever. So I had to get it up high. I had to get it out of my bag and get it up high.

And unlike Sarah Jessica, I'm not the most prop type lover person in the world. Disagree. You're adorable. But you know, she always will like, give me more. You don't know what I mean? Disagree. I mean, okay. I love you.

So I'm trying to get it out. I can see myself trying to get it out and I can see that it's not going perfectly. but it's also so perfect for the scene, right? It's where, like, you are one with the character. Yeah. And she is so real. But then what I feel, and I also think I did talk to, I think Jenny, who wrote this episode, that episode, this episode,

we weren't at the place in our lives where we really knew people going through this yet, you know? And I had said to her, I don't know if I really did justice or whatever. And she said, you did, you did, you did. And I was like, I don't know. And I do feel, I, when I look at it, what I see is that you're deepening Charlotte, like little by little by little, like third season all into where like where we break up the first time when she's on the tennis court, you know, and she's like, I think we should separate.

I'm just like, what? I don't remember that. Oh, my God. Like, you know, she's struggling to manage the fact that her vision is not what she wanted. Yeah. You know, which is a big. And these aren't little obstacles. No, they're huge obstacles.

But she's going to try to keep it together. Yeah. And so she doesn't have her feelings. That was her job. Exactly. And that's what I see. In the show. Exactly.

And that's what I see in this scene, right? It's like she's walking along looking kind of depressed but not devastated. And I'm thinking, why did I make that choice? And I'm sure that no one really wanted me to look devastated walking on the street, right? And also is it Charlotte to look devastating. Do what? Okay, excellent. You look like you came from a plane crash but survived.

Excellent. Okay. That's great, Michael. This is why I need you around. Okay. Thank God. Why? because we have the ability to alter the real.

No, because I have the ability to alter my mind with your insight. You look shell-shocked. Right. Almost like a emotional zombie. Okay, great, great. That's helpful. Thank you so much because I'm wondering to myself, like, because I do say to Miranda, I knew it.

I knew it would, you know, and I say it earlier too. Like, I've got to make an appointment to find out because I just know it's me, right? So I was like, am I playing that this is just, you know, giving credence to my fear? What am I playing there? But I'm going to go with shock. You're playing everything. Here's the reality.

Tell me. It was a very hard scene because you have to break in it. And when you have an expectation that you have to break, I don't know how you do it. That's the hardest part. It is. I've seen so many moments where the actor gets there and they might have had it at rehearsal. Right. And it's dried up.

Oh, it's the worst. Yeah. And then it goes away. Totally. And so you have. have the expectation of I'm walking into this. Right. And probably you're thinking, I hope this goes well. And Charlotte's thinking, I hope this all goes well. Totally. That is when there is fear. Yes. Yes. All of it. All of it. And then you play the surprise of seeing Miranda,

and the embarrassment of being caught. Right. And then the anger. Do you feel anger? Yes, it's true. See, this is what I think is happening too. Do you remember the seasons, which I feel like would have been season two, where you guys, not you personally, the writer, in general, like Jenny, I remember specifically telling me like Charlotte does not get mad. Do you remember this? No, I don't think of anybody as not getting mad ever. Right? That would be insane, right?

So then it was kind of like Darren, maybe Jenny. And it was more like when we were beginning and kind of really starting from the more archetypal. Real archetypes. Yes. Yes. And as it went, we deepen, deepened, deep and deepen, right? And remember how many guys I went through in season two? Yeah.

Fantastic. So many. Fantastic. For sure. Definitely. Comedy. You fucking horror. Yes, that would be the one to remember.

I like to always bring that up to trigger you. Because I know you still. I'm still mad. You still haven't done your work on that one. It's true. I have not. I'm still mad. I'm here to remind you.

You still have to work through that. I know because Charlotte didn't get to have her feelings about it. That's why I have not worked through it because everyone told me you cannot be mad. Charlotte doesn't get mad. Okay. I know it was crazy. Crazy. She gets overwhelmed.

Definitely. She gets shut down. Definitely. She gets derailed. Definitely. She gets humiliated. Definitely. She carries all of that.

Yes. But the funny thing is that she doesn't know what to do with it. I guess that's a good point. And that's that if someone had said that to me that way, it might have helped. Because at the time, I was just like, well, I'm just going to try to shove these feelings down. Which I guess is what she was doing. Right. Right.

Right. Right. Right. Maybe you should let go of those feelings. I mean, I'm not, believe me, this is not what's going through in my mind when I'm laying in bed. F and W feelings. Maybe, I don't know. I love that you still feel so protective of that moment.

I do. It's like a real X. It's so much. It's a weird combination of real X feelings. Because that guy also made me mad. Just thinking, should I have spoken up for myself? Like, there's like a, that's the, eh. No, it's true.

And Cynthia told me not to. That's why I didn't. Didn't speak up for yourself? I did not. No. That's Cynthia's for advice. Cynthia thought it was hysterical and that I should not say a word. Yeah.

And so I didn't, but I wanted to. And then that guy himself made me mad. So it all. Or did he? He did. I'll tell you what he did. This is what he did. You're trying to save him.

That's so sweet. I'm just trying to say he did his job. Oh, he did his job. But what he did is he did his job. We're still here on this guy. We are. You better get it together. I don't even know his name.

If you're going to hold on to a grudge, we should find out that dear actor's name. We should find out this poor guy's name. Since he is now your nemesis. There's like three, and he's one of them. He, Nicole was directing that Nicole Holofsner. She did his side first,

irritating, okay? Then it was lunch. So he had shouted at me. She kept telling him to shout louder and to be closer to my face. So those were the two directions she gave him, which I was like, Goal.

Okay, like, let's talk about the evolution of you. I'm now jumping, I'm jumping forward so many years. Okay, great. To the evolution of you feeling that you can't express yourself about a thing to the day on it just like that where Harry was maybe going to get hard after the whole thing. And he couldn't get hard. He still wasn't hard. and you had to give him a hand job.

Final season? Final season? Okay. Had to give him a hand job. Not written that way. Oh. It was they make love. And then we don't know how we know that it didn't happen.

Because to be quite frank, he's inside of her. We don't know what's happening. Oh, yes. This was a little vague. Yes, yes, yes. We had a new. Our intimacy coordinator was unpringant at a maternity leave. Yes, yes, yes.

we had a new one who was from England and very concerned about her actress and looking through the lens. Anyway, I came in as the director at 5 a.m. and realized, oh, no, that's not going to be funny. It's just going to be another scene. It has to be a hand job. And you have to be fully clothed and giving him a hand job. And I came up to you first thing in the set. We're about to rehearse. Oh, no, I don't remember what I said.

Kristen, I've been thinking, I think you're giving him a hand job. instead of making love. And she was like, what? What? Wait, what? And I was like, it's a hand job. And you're like, wait, what does that mean? What are you showing?

And I was like, I'm showing from here up, your arm. And she said, okay, all right. Good. Did I do it? Yeah, we had a big dialogue. I said to you, this is how it goes. I think it'll be funnier. You go, it will be.

Okay. And then the woman said, I don't have the paperwork for a hand job. And you said, we're fine. And she goes, no, I need to have the paperwork. So now we were fine and we don't have the paperwork for a hand job. So then we had to do a quick paperwork and you had to sign off. But it's a long way from feeling in a box that you couldn't have your feelings.

That's true. But you know what that is about. That is about you and our incredible long relationship. True, true, and also about you understanding what's better for the scene. For sure, for sure. But that's because I trust you. Yeah, yeah. You know, so it's about trust and developing.

Well, I trust you? Yes. Yes. 100%. How are you okay with this? Let's do this. If it doesn't work, I won't use it. And it was great.

It was funny and it was the thing we do better, which is comedy sex versus whatever. 100%. Whatever. simulated penetrated sex. Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. And I do totally. I don't want ever to need to see that again or acted again. You know what I'm saying? Not for you for anyone. You're so like, yeah. Well, it's important maybe in something. Maybe you'll do have to do it. I mean, the reality is, uh, yeah. Never say never. She's open. All your writers, directors, she's still open. She's a wonderful person to work with in simulated sex situation.

You're so sweet thinking about my career. That's so sweet. So sweet. So sweet. Thank you. Yeah, I just wanted to draw a line from shutdown to collaboration, which is what happens when a series really is allowed to exist. And the people are there for each other and love each other and both. And that's what's so great about this episode. It just screams of growth. Yes. All right, everyone.

Thanks for joining us on Are You a Charlotte. We are going to be back with more Michael Patrick King. Because when he's here, we could really talk for a long time. So please join us again later this week. Thanks, everybody. It's millions of records sold. Awards, sold out tours. You think that Jonas brothers are satisfied?

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