Are You A Charlotte? - Our Conversation with Sarah Jessica Parker Continues...

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

Sarah Jessica Parker shares deep thought provoking insights into the iconic relationship between Carrie and Big. She goes against the tide and gives an analysis of Big that we’ve never heard from anyone before. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no This is absolute season one taser incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad Listen to absolute season one taser incorporated on the iHeart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and batter than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila.

And we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Yeah, we're moms, but not your mommy. Historically, men talk too much. And women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your tribe.

Listen to the Good Moms, Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There's so many stories out there.

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screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at tearthepapersceiling.org brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, everybody. Welcome to Are You a Charlotte? We had so much to discuss with Sarah Jessica that we have another episode.

All just thoughts, random thoughts with Sarah Jessica. But we have another episode. All just thoughts, random thoughts with Sarah Jessica. The thing that I want to say too now is that I do feel that female friendship is so much more valued and talked about and discussed now. And I love that so much because I do feel like it's just incredibly important. And it used to be a time where somehow it wasn't discussed, or, you know, there were all these soap operas

where the women were fighting each other, and that was always something that was very key to our DNA, was that that was not going to happen on our show. We were never going to fight over a man. Do you remember that was one of the few notes that came from HBO over a kind of very minor story point between you and Miranda that one time, where she wanted came from HBO over a kind of very minor story point between you and Miranda that one time

where she wanted to date someone that you had dated and you were like, yeah, sure, okay. You know what I mean? Like it was a different, we were gonna be completely different in that way. And then eventually we get to that beautiful scene on the stoop where I say, you know, maybe we're each other's soulmates,

which I remember was just a beautiful scene in the middle of the night on that certain street that I think I'm still not supposed to mention. Are we not supposed to mention it? I don't know what's... Oh yeah, we got, yeah. Yeah, we got some trouble, but you know. So confused.

The special stoop. What if it's on your daily path? Just go to the second left. Just trust me, it's the second left. There you go. But you know what else I want to ask you? But I mean, I'm going to have to mold this over what you're telling me now,

and I'm going to have to really think about it from this perspective. Just food for thought. I know, I think for me, right? Because I'm over here, right? Like you're there and I'm over here, and you had to play Carrie. I'm glad you're not saying, I'm up here.

No. You're down here. No, no, no, we're saying we're in our own. You know that famous housewife quote, apparently? I don't, I don't know. Oh yeah, it was some famous housewives. It was a housewife quote. No, no, no. We're saying we're in our own. You know that famous housewife quote apparently? I don't, I know you. Nothing about the housewives. Oh yeah, it was a famous housewife.

It was a housewife quote. It just makes me laugh. I don't know. Yeah, somebody said, I'm up here and you're down here. Really? You're saying you're over there. Oh dear. We're just saying we're in our own.

Yeah, we're in our own. Just kidding. We're in our own bubbles. Someone the other day told me that they think that the Housewife, you know, franchise, franchise, mega franchise that our friend Andy created was inspired by us. And I was like, what? I know. I've never seen it.

So I didn't know what to say. No, I would say not. As a compliment. Yes. I don't think so. You know, Andy's just a genius and came up on his own, I believe. But anyway, I now forget. Oh, I, I, I, so what I, no, it was good. Are you kidding?

You said, so I'm over here. Yes. Because so one thing when I'm looking back on the show, right. And rewatching, which is so incredible. I was in my own, you know, somewhat of a tizzy, right? Like the first beginning, especially because I'm in LA, I'm coming back, I have my golden, remember, I would haul my golden retriever back and forth with me, Callie. And, you know, just trying to figure out where I'm going to live and what I'm going to do.

And how am I going to wear those shoes? Took her a whole season, at least, to get me into the shoes she wanted me to wear. You know? So funny. I know. I know. It's all so funny. It's also... I'll let you finish and then I just want to say something about your angst that you've talked about. So funny. I know. I know. It's all so funny. It's all so... I'll let you finish and then I just want to say something about your angst that you talked

about. Please tell me what you want to say now about my angst. I'm going to say that, you know, I think you're always really good about saying when you were nervous or worried, or even if something upset you. But I was very touched. I mean, I feel like I hope that you felt, if you shared that with us, that you were taken care of. Like I hope that when you felt nervous or literally angst and you would lie in bed and worry about a scene, your body, any of these things,

that the times in which you felt comfortable to share it, and I feel like we talked a decent amount about that, that you, nobody dismissed it as silliness. No. But I was like, wow, it really... It like stayed... It was like your constant companion for the entire first season, for sure.

Oh, for sure. And... I'm like, part of me is like, oh my gosh. But the other part of me is like, wow, look at her. Because everybody has a way of like, revealing or being demonstrative about the things that they're worried about. And some people are willing to share it

and some people just, it blurts out and in different directions. And you have to assume that it's because they're worried or they're insecure or nervous. Like it, it, it, that's our most human parts of ourselves. Absolutely. But I just don't, like you didn't really, it didn't really mess with you. Curiously.

I know. It didn't really mess with you. And that is a real testimony because I feel like we talked about being worried, upset, nervous, et cetera. And I think you saw the podcast the other day, Sarah Jessica Doesn't Cry Much, and I was like, I feel like, what? I feel like I am so sensitive, so overly worried.

Well, not crying much and being sensitive are two different things. Right, but I feel like in my head, I'm a mess, worried, nervous, et cetera, et cetera. But we have like a job to do when the camera rolls is to try to convince somebody at that time that you are Charlotte and you feel really strongly about this and you need to get from A to B

and then B to C. And then exit C is where you're going to, then the camera is gonna say cut. Right. Oh my God. Oh, she was so good at saying when she was upset, nervous. And then something like distracted you you or got in a thing, then it was like over and out and done.

Like you expelled it, but I didn't know that you actually weren't expelling all of it. Like you weren't ridding yourself of all of it. You actually were like, hanging on to a good amount. I did, I did, I did. And I think, I mean, really what you're saying, what I think you're saying is that I am, I don't have a lot of cover. You know, my, my, my, myself, if I

know you and I trust you, which I do obviously trust you, ever since the Krispy Kremes, I was like, I can talk to her. But I didn't, I didn't, I think it took a while for me to feel, because I'd been in these other TV situations where, you know, you did just kind of, you were in your own bubble and you had your own situation and you wouldn't want to burden the others or, you know, whatever it would be or necessarily share all of your thoughts. I wasn't in a safe situation previous to our show,

let's put it that way. So I think once we got to our show, it did take me some time because I thought all of you were so together and New York and tough, you know? And you are in a certain way, you know what I'm saying? That's so funny, I just don't... You're funny, but like you talk about the rain, there's nothing here.

I mean, for me, I have so many traumatic rain memories, okay? Like in my mind, like the sideways rain. I remember one time, do you remember that shiny Nokia? Yeah, the sideways rain. Remember that Nokia shiny phone I had that you always like, why do you have that phone? Do you remember this?

Oh, was it like a mirror reflected? Yes, it was like from the matrix or whatever. I could check my teeth in it, which is why I really love it. Wait, did it open and close? It slid. It slid. It slid. Yes.

And it was like a mirror. And I was checking my teeth. And he would laugh at me, laugh at me. I was on the shiny phone, which was like my prized possession, trying to walk to my Upper West Side apartment. Did you pull the antenna out? Yeah. No, that didn't happen.

Maybe we passed the antenna phase. I'm not sure. I'm shaking the flowers. That's how excited I am. The passed the met and tenant phase. Okay. I'm not sure. I'm shaking the flowers. That's how excited I am. The rain came and it came sideways and I was like, the phone! I was talking on the phone. I was like, oh my God, I've got to get into a door, stupid.

I have the phone! Yes. You know what I mean? And then one time I was shopping. Oh, this was a bad memory. I was shopping. I was wearing my bright pink puffer. Don't ask me why.

Oh, I remember that pink puffer. Do you remember? I mean, it was so my bright pink puffer. Don't ask me why. Do you remember that pink puffer? Do you remember? I mean, it was so bright and pink, but very warm. Cozy. Yeah, so cozy. You're the queen of cozy. I love to be cozy. I mean, I'm always cold.

If you're looking to feel good, travel well, pack right, among other things, this is your ladies. One of my specialties, this is true. So I'm wearing my pink puffer, I'd gone downtown to go shopping. This is where I lived, Upper West Side. I had shopped. I had multiple bags, you know, very New York City. I was, it was a day off. I had no makeup on. I'm sure my hair was a mess. Suddenly the rain comes and I'm like, no, I think I was wearing my boots and I'm not prepared for the rain.

It's cold too, right? Because I'm wearing the puffer and it got so wet that the bags gave out. Oh, things fall on the ground. That's really awful, yeah. Then I have to find the subway. I'm on the subway. I get on the subway. I'm holding the things. I'm like a wet rat, you know?

And these young high school kids get on, and they're a bunch of boys, and they're like, and I'm like, oh, God. And they look at me and they're like, that looks like that girl from The Sex and the City. And the other guy's like, that's not her. She's ugly. And I was like, okay, I. And they look at me and they're like, that looks like that girl from the Sex and the City. And the other guy's like, that's not her. She's ugly. And I was like, OK, I don't know if this is good or bad.

Better look like a white rat. I'm like, you know, it's probably a good thing. Whichever. Both. It's probably a good thing because they're not going to ask for my autograph or a picture right now. I don't think we were at picture time in history. Anyway, side note, I feel very much a wimp, you know, compared to you guys.

You and Cynthia, especially. I mean, Kim's definitely more, you know, of the sensitive nature and sometimes, you know, she and I would be like, we're cold. You know, and you would be like, you know, just take your coats off now. Get used to it. Get used to it. I know. I know. And that's actually really good advice.

But I always feel, and I felt at the time in the beginning especially, because the first season was so fast. You know, we shot in three months, I believe, the whole season. And I was just like, I gotta pretend like I'm cool, man. I wonder what month we started. I know, we are gonna get to the bottom of this.

I don't know. I bet I have my call sheets though. No. Oh yeah. From the beginning? Oh yeah.'t know. I bet I have my call sheets though. No. Oh yeah. From the beginning? Oh yeah. Wow. I'm sure I have my call sheets.

Incredible, incredible. Molly also has all the costume stuff. Molly's like a receptacle. She has like so much great stuff. Yeah. So back to me and the things I was holding close. I think for me, I felt so upset that they had tried to demote me during the pilot. You heard that story. And I didn't tell you guys because I felt so upset that they had tried to demote me during the pilot. You heard that

story. And I didn't tell you guys because I felt like that was like a weight. And like, also, I didn't want them to be like, yeah, she doesn't fit in. Like that was my insecurity in the beginning, right? I was like, yeah, she shouldn't fit in. Obviously. You know what I mean? Like in my mind, that was, that was like a possibility for a while it it went away you know and thank goodness and also I did have that core belief in Charlotte thank goodness and I feel like you guys did too you know I didn't feel like you were I had a core belief in everything all of it right like in in in the foursome I did it had to be this way, you know, that we all needed each other.

Yes. Even if you looked at it like, to survive. Absolutely. Like it was like... Well, we were very together. Because it wasn't personal yet. It was like more like, well, you have to have... She needs me, I need her.

We are sustaining, we are our life sustaining. Because these stories need to, these stories need to bounce off of each other in order to be, to have bigger relevance. To have bigger relevance and like touch on things. A bigger, because that's one of the things I love

and one of the reasons for the podcast is the themes, which we literally were supposed to talk about, but there's too much. Okay. I know. The themes are so great, right? And I just want to touch on this for a second at least, because when I'm watching you, first of all, also let me just say, everyone has better storylines in first season than I remember, including myself.

Really? So with Carrie, I just want to talk about Carrie for a second and Beg in particular, and the other men that are around Carrie, because, okay, oh my God, oh, I've been dying to ask you this. Okay, two things, oh my God, thank God I remembered. Number one, do you remember this insane sex tape episode? What? Okay, yes.

It's possibly, it's with modelizers. With Garrett? With Gabriel Mocked playing the modelizer. So I remember him. I don't remember anything else. Wasn't he kind of a big deal? Did he become a big deal? Yes, he's on Suits, the original Suits,

and then he quit acting and moved to Europe with his family. Isn't that awesome? And now they pulled him back in by doing suits LA. Oh really? Only a little bit. Is he Canadian? I don't think so. Does anyone know? Is he Canadian? He's talking about toxic masculinity in the world. I love him. I'm passionately begging him to be on the podcast. Why would well, why could he say no? Why would he say no? Why would he say no? I think he's busy, but you know what? We need him because we need some clarity

on this one episode. Okay, tell me about it. Candace didn't really remember it, which I think is also interesting. So you don't think it's material from her book? I do think it's material from her book and I just haven't had time to look. Maybe she just didn't want to mention,

but you know how she was actually telling stories that she heard? She did say, I do think that was a story that was circulating. Got it. Got it. Got it. Of a real person. So basically, Gabriel Mocked, incredibly handsome.

He was an artist. You're with him at his art studio and he's like moving paint around a canvas. It's like a big open Soho-y space. Very much so, yes. I have vague recollections of that. Yes. And then he says, but I need to show you my real work of art. At which point he pulls you into a different room and you're like, cool, Carrie, you've

got your cigarette, you know, you're cool. And you go to this other room and there's all these old fashioned TVs set up in this weird tower. And then he presses play or turns them all on by hand maybe. And it's him having sex with different models unbeknownst to the models. And you sit there. You see him. One at a time.

One at a time, yes. Okay. He's all playing simultaneously. Yes. He's having sex with them one at a time. Wow, so this is his calling card. This is his work of art. Is that I'm going to sleep with you

and film it and not tell you. Yes. Wow. But he tells you, Carrie, because you're cool, right? And he can confide in you. You're like one of the guys sometimes in the beginning. I know! And you very gamely sit there, OK?

Do you remember this? No. No one remembers this. It's fascinating, OK? I bet I didn't have to watch it. I'm sure you didn't have to watch the real thing. Is there a shot that I am included in this imagery? I would have to go back and look.

I think there's a shot where you're included in the back of the TVs, but we can't see what's on the TV. So I bet I didn't have to see it. Because then at the end, you're like, oh, mm-hmm. Hmm. Oh. Hmm. And then your voiceover says something like, I recognize them all from the pages of Vogue.

Every major fragrance ad was represented on screen. It's horrifying, right? But then you're so calm and collected and then you're like, I need a cigarette. Can you believe it? No. It's so old school. You know what I'm saying?

Like in a bad way, right? And I'm dying to talk to Gabriel Mocton, what he thought and felt filming it. Maybe he doesn't want to talk about it. Maybe he doesn't! That might be why he's busy. Right, it might be why he's busy. So you didn't know. You didn't know what you were actually watching.

See, that's for sure. We had nothing. We had no clothing. We were being given nothing. Oh, no. When I talked to Molly, she... This is when Molly knew every corner of Century City. Sorry, Century 21. I would ask her, where are the belts? She lived down there. And I remember going with them to Century 21.

Like, we would have shopping days. That would be like, there's four dresses down here. Exactly. Come on your lunch break. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's a trip. And people on the on the social media. There's a great Vittadini down here. They were people on the they were like, what is Century 21? What are they talking about?

I know. I know. Sad. I know. Yeah. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast, Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife Caroline.

He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community. She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception.

Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else.

Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian, Dr. Randall Williams, and bestselling author and meat eater founder, Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here and I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday May 6th where we'll delve into

stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything I might've dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip hop. It's Black Music Month and we need to talk is tapping in.

I'm Nailah Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives. My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, cause I bring him on tour with me

and he's getting older now too. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is. And they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the goat. Like he's a legend. So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy

for your family? It means a lot to me, just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like that's what's really important and that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy or my family in general. Let's talk about the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy, or my family in general.

Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This Pride Month, we are not just celebrating, we're fighting back. I'm Georgian Johnson, and my book, All Boys Aren't Blue,

was just named the most banned book in America. If the culture wars have taught me anything, it's that pride is protest. And on my podcast, Fighting Words, we talk to people who use their voices to resist, disrupt, and make our community stronger. This year, we are showing up and showing out. You need people being like, no, you're not going to tell us what to do. This regime is coming down on us, and I don't want it to survive. I want to thrive.

You'll hear from trailblazers like Bob the Drag Queen. To freedom! Angelica Ross. We ready to fight? I'm ready to fight. And Gabrielle Yoon. Hi, George. And Gabrielle Yoon. Hi, George. And storytellers with wisdom to spare.

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a mult-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser, Inc. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes one, two, and three on May 21st, and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. So anyway, there are some things, some really like questionable things. Problematic. Problematic. But for us at the time, I don't, I remember thinking like, wow, this is racy for TV. Yeah. But I don't remember thinking this isn't true or anything like that. We were just used to it.

Yeah. Yeah. I think the difference between race and problematic might not have been even in our lexicon. We wouldn't necessarily have believed it was if the culture in which we were living kind of existed in a way and we were just carrying on. Exactly. Get on with your day, get on with your life. 100% and do the best you could do. Get that away somewhere else. And so today, of course, we'd be, it wouldn't be suggested as a plotline, but if for some crazy reason it were, like say a writer had dropped from a time machine and offered that up, all of us would say, you understand that Carrie can't, you can do this. But the response.

Carrie needs to then go call the police. Correct. There has to be an entirely different response. She can't be cavalier and internally objecting. Right. Which you do later tell Samantha not to go, but then Samantha goes because she wants to be filmed and then he tells her he's not going to film her because she's not a model and she says, do it anyway.

And it's all very interesting. But the bigger issue for me watching the first season is not these, you know, occasionally questionable and like about the 27 guys. You're definitely in like some very questionable locations. And you're just like, what? And you're like, I just needed to be kissed. Like, it's so, so very... I just love it.

It's very exciting and also like odd, you know, to remember back then. But the thing that, the through line that is hard to watch for me and shocking, really surprised me, is the complete wall that Big has up, just as a human, you know, not necessarily towards you, just in general. Like, you take him to a party, or he takes you to a party, and that guy who recurred,

I can't remember his name right now, it's his party. You know, he had a cigar, he always had a party, or he takes you to a party, and that guy who recurred, I can't remember his name right now, it's his party. He had a cigar, he always had a cigar, he was blonde guy. I can't remember his name. Yeah, the one whose crossword puzzle I'm... No, I think it's a different one than him, but in my mind they were also the same, but they were different blonde guys who were friends of Biggs. And you go to this party and this one girl comes up and like kisses him right in front of you and is like, you still have my passport. You're like, oh, international travel.

Like you're just so, you handle it, man. But inside you can see flitting across your face at all times, so many thoughts and feelings and thoughts and feelings. And then there's different times when you try to get Big to talk to you in all these different ways. And it's like infuriating to watch. I just want to shake Big. But I never thought about it at the time,

because first of all, we just read a script. I mean, I think that you were much more able to be objective and think about the overall arc and, you know, things from a storytelling perspective back then even than I was, but I was just like, it is what it is. I'm team big. I believe in love. No, no, no.

I didn't really... There was no critical thought or whatever. And also, and I talked to Candice a little bit about it, it was interesting to hear her point of view. That's what our lives were like then. We were used to that as women being alive in that time. Like, there weren't some guys who were expressive and some guys who weren't,

or some guys who were emotionally intelligent, some guys who weren't. They were just guys and they were shut off. And so your thing was like, like one time you'd have those couple drinks and you'd go over and then you'd try to get them to talk to you and you'd be like, Carrie, what's wrong with you? You'd be like, I'm just too much.

You know, you're so not too much, you're amazing. You are, you're so amazing, you're too good for big. You are, look, she's surprised. I mean, I've had so many guests also who are like, oh yeah, she's too good for big. And then I'm like, well. See, I tell us, I guess that made her happy. Like, I don't know that,

made her happy. Like, I don't know that... I don't know... that Carrie's... I know people have a lot of strong feelings about Carrie. I've come to understand that people have feelings about Carrie. And that's perfectly all right. And there's nothing you can do about it.

And... It just means they love the show. It just means something has... Connected. -... has gotten a little bit with them. And my feeling is that I believe Carrie is very smart. I believe Carrie is bright. And I believe that she sees this man they meet. He asks her this question in the pilot and it's like a harpoon. It's like this thing got into her that is interesting. And I don't know that Big is as bright as Carrie.

I actually don't think he's as facile and as, uh, complicated a human being as she is. Yes. It's like if you look at architecture that is beautiful and there is a kind of simplicity to it, you are admiring of its stability. You are admiring of its place that it it can stand in its simplicity, and people can look to it, and it can provide a kind of reliable shelter, and it can be a mark in a time in history. And I feel like Carrie looked at big, and she, you know, she had inexplicable feelings. It is the human being that can't explain to her friends why somebody that could be beneath

her, might be beneath her, is dictating the hunt. Yes! Well put. And I don't think that that is... I can't place any judgment on it. I can't say he's a bad guy or vacuous or shallow or not. He is what he is. And it wasn't as if there was an erosion, like water washed away like a whole shoreline

and finally he couldn't take it anymore. And he's like, all right, you know, like sure. I think he came to see what her absence in his life meant. And even if she wasn't the type, because I try to remember this, and this is a very long explanation for, or as Bridget Ever always likes to say, short story long. Sometimes you have to remember the age of the person, what year they were born, who raised them, and what year they were born. So look at Big. So in early 2000s, Big was how old? I don't know, 42?

So that means that he was born in 1960, right? Or 1958. Sure. I'm going to go with the 58. Okay. So he was born in 58. That means his dad was born in? Like 40.

No, 30. 30. 38? Sorry. Yeah. Right? Totally different time. Yeah.

Who raised him? Depression era people. Correct. He chose everything the conventional way. He went to college, he got a good job, he worked in finance, he bought this kind of apartment, he dresses like this, he goes for a cigar. Like, he is going to have to undo his entire cultural DNA to appreciate what Carrie is offering.

And that's a really big deal. That's true. So why did she want that so badly? Cause that's what she liked. That's what she loved. He is who she loved. She liked the way he smelled. She liked the way he looked.

She liked the way he owned the street. She liked the way he drove around the city. She liked the way he talked to her when they were good. She liked the way that she knew she was mysterious to him, that she was kind of like this, and I'm going to use the word exotic in the sense of it was unknown to him. It was like a, she was a source of total curiosity, but not what everybody else around him was doing. Yeah. And he did that two times. He did the other thing two times. Right. Two times he did the thing that his dad told him or would have told him to do. Yeah. She is from a

good family. Right. Her hair does this. She can look good in a shift. She's a brunette. She's this, she's this, she's this. Right, right. She won't embarrass us. She won't be colorful at the wrong time. She won't reach for the same cocktail that the men are reaching for. Whatever it is, culturally, that is. And so, I think Carrie pushed against that the whole time. Yeah. I think Carrie pushed against that the whole time. Like she was always trying to allow him the freedom to make the choice that he basically

said he wanted to make from the minute they met. You feel that? I feel he, the minute that they had that exchange, the minute that she sat in his car, the minute he said, have you ever been in love? And she said nine things with one word or four words. And then he said, abso-fucking-lutely. That's it. Yeah. It's like, I think it's being like, it doesn't mean that she didn't hate him, that he didn't disappoint her, that she didn't think he was a monster, that he was far less a man, that she endowed him with far too many good qualities, you know, when he disappointed her.

Yeah. But they did end up together. They did end up being married because he wanted to be with her. Right. It just took a while. Yeah, because he's, he was baked. You know, he was cooked, he was done, and he had to all be done. You know? Yes.

And she stuck around enough. It's not like she didn't go elsewhere. It's not like she didn't try. It's not like she made herself unavailable. Right. So... I like this. This is helpful. You can't be that devastated by the loss of a person if they were a mere version of who you always wish

they'd be. Like when he passed, spoil alert. I think everyone knows. I think everyone knows. I think everyone knows, but go ahead. When he passed away. Yes. It was pretty tough on her. Yeah, of course.

Oh, I'm not saying it wasn't real. No, I'm just saying that's because that was a really hard fought for love. I mean, no joke. You know? I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast, Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline.

He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community. She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done?

You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater podcast network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores,

and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and bestselling author and meat eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here and I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come

to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything I might've dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip hop. It's Black Music Month and we need to talk is tapping in. I'm Nailah Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture

that shaped the soundtrack of our lives. My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, cause I bring him on tour with me and he's getting older now too. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is and they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the GOAT. Like he's a legend. So he gets it.

What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? It means a lot to me, just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like that's what's really important and that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy, or my family in general.

Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. This Pride Month, we are not just celebrating. We're fighting back. I'm George M. Johnson, and my book, All Boys Aren't Blue,

was just named the most banned book in America. If the culture wars have taught me anything, it's that pride is protest. And on my podcast, Fighting Words, we talk to people who use their voices to resist, disrupt, and make our community stronger. This year, we are showing up and showing out. You need people being like, no, you're not going to tell us what to do. This regime is coming down on us. And I don't want it to survive. I want to thrive. You'll hear from trailblazers like Bob the Drag Queen.

To freedom! Angelica Ross. We ready to fight? I'm ready to fight. And Gabrielle Yoon. Hi, George. And storytellers with wisdom to spare. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your

gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. of Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes one, two, and three on May 21st,

and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th. Ad free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. ["I'm Not a Man"] I just have to say one more thing. Yes. I want to say this. Don't make me, don't do it, Kristin Davis. I know, I know.

I'm sorry. I won't. I'm just going to try to, I'll close my eyes. I want to say it is the biggest honor of my life to work with you. I love you so much. I could never, ever, ever have dreamt that we would do everything that we've done and you are the best friend and a joy. You are.

We have a... what did you write in a card? It was so great. You said it. In a card. Your bones. Yeah, I was so great. You said it in a card. Your bones. Yeah. My bones. I was like, wow. I know. It's so hard to explain what it all has meant.

And it's very special. It's the most special professional thing that's ever happened to us. And it's funny because I don't know that we would ever have found each other in a million years. Like if you had not done this and I had been in New York and you've been in Los Angeles working there

and I was working in New York. Like I was thinking about the other day when I was listening to the podcast and I was like, oh, we would never have found each other. So true, it's so true. You know, like our lives just would not have intersected and it's just, it's amazing to have colleagues that you feel such intensity for and about.

Yes. You know, like, such, like, very lively feelings. Absolutely. Like, very lively feelings. Like very lively feelings. And it's just amazing. And like your family, your parents, your kids, like the whole thing. Our lives, it's our whole lives.

Someone upsets you, someone said something wrong, you know, like you've been upset with me. Like I've been upset. You know, like over 30 years, yeah. So safe that like, I wouldn't even think about that though. Absolutely, absolutely. It's a really big deal and it's such,

it's such a, it's a privilege of a lifetime. It is a privilege of a lifetime. So proud of you. I'm so proud of you. I'm gonna show you this one thing before we go because it's very cool. Look at what I got at the airport. Do you know what these titles have in common?

Lord of the Flies, The Hate U Give, these are all banned books. Yep, look at this you guys. Don't you think this is fantastic that they're selling this at the airport? It's unbelievable. I'm going to give you that one. Wait, who?

No, you keep this. Give it to Gemma. She would love it. This was available at the airport at the kiosk. Yeah, isn't that great? At the Hudson Books. Wow. Right?

Yeah, that's incredible. Isn't that great? Next time you're here, we're gonna talk about- Did you hear what was banned at the Naval Library? The books that have just been banned at the Naval Library? Unbelievable. It's pretty disgusting. We're gonna talk about your-

We'll talk about books. Imprunture. We can talk about books on our set. Yes! Yeah. Yes! Yeah, that's always fun. There's so much. We can talk about books on our set. Yes! Yeah. Yes! Yeah, that's always fun. There's so much.

You've talked about that a little bit. I have. And I'd love to talk about it because you are just a multi-hive in it in so many beautiful ways. Not really. Not like you, baby. I mean, Sarah Jessica, a joy to have you. I'm not going to cry again.

Okay. But really, literally, we could talk to you for a year. I could have an entire podcast, just you and me. That's what happens at work too. I know. This is what happens at work. Action, action, action. We're like, wait, wait.

Hold on a second. But it is a joy and there's still memories that I know are hidden in there and I'm going to get them out. I'm going to get them out because you have memories, then I have memories. We can combine them. And thank you so much. Oh, it's been a total pleasure. I was so looking forward to this.

I know. We finally got you here. Until next time. Until next time. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a

future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and batter than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila. And we're the hosts of the Good Moms, Bad Choices podcast, brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Yeah, we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast, brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday.

Yeah, we're moms, but not your mommy. Historically, men talk too much. And women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your tribe. Listen to the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast. Every Wednesday. On the Black Effect Podcast Network, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you go to

find your podcast. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of 2B. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience

is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. podcast or ever you get your podcast. I always had to be so good, no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling, the limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars.

Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at tearthepapersceiling.org, brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.