Are You A Charlotte? - Peach of an Episode with Tamara Tunie… (S2 E6 "The Cheating Curve")

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

In New York City, the dedicated podcasters who investigate these iconic episodes are members of an elite squad known as Are You A Charlotte?Tamara Tunie has appeared in over 200 episodes of Law And Order:  SVU but today she’s talking about a very memorable episode of Sex and the City.  Tamara Tunie joins Kristin as they talk about it all, from peaches to the “P” word!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us, on the page and off. Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what happened at Chappaquiddick?

Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week, we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Everyone welcome. We have the amazing Tamara Tooney joining us. She plays one of Charlotte's power lesbians. And you will know her from Law and Order Special Victims Unit. She played the medical examiner. And she did 230 episodes.

Wow. She's also been on Broadway. She's a director, actor, an incredible person. Such a joy to have you. How are you doing? I'm fantastic and thank you for having me. It's my pleasure. I love that episode and I just love saying power lesbian.

I know, right? It's fun, isn't it? It's fun. It gives you a whole sense of like why Charlotte was interested in trying to pretend to be one. Yes. Still feels that way today. I love your hair. Can I just say? Thank you. Yes. Incredible.

I appreciate it. It's natural state, color and curl. And I'm just happy that I put away the dye bottles and go au naturel. I dream of that someday. Someday I will do it as well. Are you still playing that same character on all of those SUV and and what not Law and Order? No, no, no, no. I haven't done Law and Order for a few years now, a couple years now. I did 20, I did 23 seasons.

Unbelievable. I mean, as the same character, correct? As the same character, but however, the past two years I did pop over into Chris Maloney's version of SVU Organized Crime as Melinda Warner with my natural hair color. Yes. Love it. That's amazing. I mean how wonderful and rare and what a joy that you've gotten to span all of those different iterations of that show. Yes, absolutely.

I mean, and it's not unlike your show in that it's the gift that keeps on giving. And I am very, very grateful for that. Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that. I love the, you're kind of just the quintessential New York actor where you know, you've had these incredible opportunities on these incredibly New York shows Absolutely, and the beauty of being in New York also is while I was doing law and order SVU

I was also doing as the world turns back in the day and At one point appearing on Broadway and Julius Caesar all at the same time and only in New York City can an actor do that. Incredible. Wow. I mean it's just a that's just like a dream. It is. It is. It's a pinch yourself moment you know. Well I do know. I absolutely know and that's one of the things that we have loved so much about doing our show in New York. Not only is New York a character, as everyone always mentions, but you have access to these

incredible actors. Absolutely. And especially in the beginning of the show. You know, it was another show added because there were the soaps, the old fashioned, old standing soaps. Then there was a phase like in the late 80s, 90s of sitcoms. You remember there was like Michael J. Fox. I was gonna say, yes.

Cosby, of course, previously. But that was kind of would come and go. And I don't feel like sitcoms lasted. They moved more to Los Angeles for a while. And then, of course, Law and Order started, which started many versions and SVU, so many versions and so many actors employed there, which was wonderful. But we were a comedy that got to come in, single-camera comedy as opposed to the sitcom.

But the level of actor who's available to come onto the show was so high, so impressive. Absolutely. I mean, come on, it's New York City. It's the cream of the crop, right? And you know, those shows like Sex and the City, like Michael J. Fox's shows, and even the soap opera. I mean, most of us in New York City come for theater. And you know, theater just doesn't afford you the opportunity to, you know, pay for your lifestyle in New York City. Right? So then all the film and television, of course, was I always considered it like the subsidy in order for me to do my theater. Absolutely. Absolutely. And such a dream for any actor. Absolutely. Yeah. No question. What do you remember?

Before we actually recap the episode, what do you remember about coming on the show? Had you seen the show? Did you know the show at the time that you came on? OK, of course. Who didn't know the show, right? Well, because it was early days. It was early days.

It was season two, right? Yes. It was season two. And yes. And so of course, the show was a juggernaut. And everybody loved the show. and everybody knew about the show. And I just remember, I remember, you know, coming to read for the role. I remember distinctly coming to read for the role and sitting outside the casting

office and, um, Sarah Jessica kind of coming through to go on her way somewhere. And how she stopped and said hello to me and to whatever other actor was out there with me. There weren't a lot of us hanging out, you know. But she stopped and said hello, you know what I mean? And I just thought, yeah, that's classy. Nice. And that's what I do.

So I love that that's what she would do. So that was my first encounter, right? So then, you know, coming onto the set and then meeting you and the first scene was in that art gallery and, you know, that was on location somewhere down in SoHo, right? As I recall. And then meeting you and you with your charming sweet self,

you know, who, you know, just like Charlotte is just a dear. Thank you. Yeah, and you were so warm and welcoming. And, you know, we just had such a great time shooting it. So, and then, you know, I just loved the, I just loved the reveal of the power lesbians, right? And, you know, underlined by your voiceover

when you wear our backs or looking at some artwork and then we turn and we stretch. It's so good. Yeah. It means stretch, you know. It was incredible. It was cool. It was so good.

I had forgotten that part. I remember the episode for a few, obviously very odd reasons. One is that I got to wear flat shoes, which was like so exciting, okay? Crotolophers. That's right. Frada loafers, which I still have. Okay. And I was just like beyond excited. And Pat let me wear pants. That was also very unusual. So I was having just the most relaxed and best time hanging with the ladies. And then I loved the idea of the story.

And I think that, you know, people think of Charlotte, especially in the beginning, as being this prude. And I, of course, understand why compared to some of the other characters, but at the same time, she's so open, you know? And she's really wants to, like, she says numerous times during the episode, it's just so great to be surrounded by this energy

and not have to be worrying about men. Yes. I love that so much and I personally feel the same way. Absolutely, and I'm sure so many people can identify with that. So many women can identify with that. It's just a different vibe being around women, especially just all women.

Yeah. So yeah, so it was really cool. And not concerned about men or talking about men, you know, I'm sure it was very refreshing for Charlotte. It was great. And then it's just kind of so sad when the super, super powerful, Okay.

our lesbian asks her if she eats, you know what? And she was like, no. And she goes, well, you know, then you're never gonna get to, what does she say? You're never gonna get to come to Vale or something like this, which is literally like, you can't hang with us. You know what I mean?

I mean, are we allowed to quote what she said? You can, you can. I am Charlotte, so it's hard for me to say. You can say whatever you want, Tamara. Because it was a total drop the mic line. I mean, and it was out of nowhere. And it like cut to the chase. And she said basically, because Charlotte was saying, Oh, you know, I just love being a wild woman. And it would be so great to come and hang

out with you on fail. And, you know, etc, etc. And basically, she said, Listen, if you don't eat pee, you're not a dyke. And away. That's right. That's right. That's right. I love that you can't say it either. It's so funny to me. I know, because you think you can. And I know that this is also how it is when you're acting, right? So many times, I would have some crazy line

of Charlotte when she's trying to say something to the girls that has happened. And I would just be like, bleh. I know you get that little stutter. Yeah, 25 years later, it's still true. And I had Megan Thee Stallion on and she doesn't say the P word. Right.

And I was like, but you have a whole song. And she said, but that's when I'm rapping. It's like a different personality. It's a persona. That's right. That's right. Isn't that interesting? Isn't that funny? Because if I were the character,

I would so easily, it would just flow off my tongue. But right now, myself, it's like, er. I know, me too, me too, me too, which is why it's great that I play Charlotte. But I mean, it is funny. It is interesting and funny. And someone said to me, I went on another podcast, we were talking about my podcast and rewatching. And one of the reasons that I wanted to rewatch is to see what was still true

in terms of the themes and the storylines was still true in 2025 versus when we did it in 1997 onward. And a lot of things are still true. And occasionally there's things that we got wrong or that aren't true anymore or whatever. Right. But there's so many things that are still true. And one of the things that are still true. And one of the things that someone said to me was, you know, thank goodness that the show came

along and freed women to speak more freely. And don't you don't you think that that's why women can speak more freely now? And what I said was, I do think that obviously we were a cultural thing. I get that. But I also feel in my gut that those old rules were ready to fall. Yeah, absolutely. And we were just at the right time. We were like speaking something that was already kind of happening. Yes, I agree, I totally agree.

Or it wouldn't have been such a big thing. I think it was a timing and that those rules are ridiculous. Yeah, because if the social climate wasn't right at that time, you all wouldn't have been able to get away with what you were able to get away with, right? Totally, yes. Yes. You know what I mean? I do. So, yeah, I totally agree with you. Absolutely.

And I do think it's interesting that still, here you and I are, many years later, can't say the P word. That's just because that's how my mama raised me. It's how my mama raised me too! I mean, yes! My mom would be like, shocked, you know, which was a stress in the beginning of the show because she'd be like, oh, am I gonna like this week? And I'd be like, yeah, no, mom, don't watch it.

Right, right, right. You know, but at the same time, my mother would tell you, I cuss like a sailor. So you know, we all live in complexity. Yes. We all live in. Well put. Well put. I also think it's, you know, what you're comfortable with.

Some things you might be comfortable with and some things you might not be and that's as it should be, right? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. That was fun. That was fun. I like that. All right, let's dive in. Let's dive in. Okay, so this episode is called The Cheating Curve and it is directed, I believe it's the first episode directed by John David Coles who ended up doing, I want to say five or six, maybe you guys could look that up for me. He did a

number of episodes and he was a really fun director. I don't know if you remember him so well. I do remember him. He did a number of episodes and he was a really fun director. I don't know if you remember him so well. I do remember him. He was wonderful. Yeah, and he does that incredible thing. I had forgotten that the show begins with the power of lesbians, which I love so much. And the scene that you were talking about, the reveal where, you know, you see this empty gallery and it looks a lot like the gallery we're using in and just like that. But I can't imagine that it is, but it looks very similar. And the gallery is filling up with art

and filling up with people slowly. And Sarah Jessica's giving the voiceover about Charlotte, doing an art opening and that this particular art opening surpasses a regular wine and cheesecracker thing, because it is a lesbian artist and the power lesbians are there at which point you guys turn into camera and as you said strut forward and it's just so powerful and fantastic.

Yes, yes. It was it was amazing. And you know what I also love? Because I'm a director as well. And what I really loved is, as you said, at the top, it was an empty gallery. And the way it was people were where people just started appearing. First, there was one person, then there was set five person, then there was one. And it wasn't like they walked in the room. You know, it was like the magic of, of, of, of, of filmmaking, you know, where

they just magically appeared. It was cool. It was really hot. appeared. It was cool. Visit BenMGM.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wage your Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connets Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge.

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So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's, Teddy escapes, blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you.

The story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week, we go behind the headlines

and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. American history is full of wise people. Well, women said something like, you know, 99.99% of war is diarrhea and 1% is glory.

Those founding fathers were gossipy AF, and they loved to cut each other down. I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, the show where you send us your questions about American history and I find the answers, including the nuggets of wisdom our history has to offer. Hamilton pauses and then he says, the greatest man that ever lived was Julius Caesar. And Jefferson writes in his diary, this proves that Hamilton is for a dictator based on corruption. My favorite line was what Neil Armstrong said, it would have been harder to fake it than

to do it. Listen to American history hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kelly Harnett spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. I'm 100% innocent. While behind bars, she learned the law from scratch. She goes, Oh God, Harnett, jailhouse lawyer. And as she fought for herself, she also became a lifeline for the women locked up alongside her. You're supposed to have faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her.

So many of these women had lived the same stories. I said, were you a victim of domestic violence? And she was like, yeah. But maybe Kelly could change the ending. I said, how many people have gotten other incarcerated individuals out of here? I'm going to be the first one to do that. This is the story of Kelly Harnett, a woman who spent 12 years fighting not just for her own freedom,

but her girlfriends too. I think I have a mission from God to save souls by getting people out of prison. The girlfriends, jailhouse lawyer. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, I think I have a mission from God to save souls by getting people out of prison. The Girlfriends, Jailhouse Lawyer. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's interesting because this, in my mind, our first season, nothing had aired, right? So we were just kind of working in a vacuum.

We didn't really know what we were doing exactly. We had a tiny budget, you know, compared to later on. Of course. And we didn't really have such strong directors in a way. Like we had a lot of kind of indie film directors. I remember them being like someone who had the hot movie at Sundance or whatever. And second season, we start to get other HBO directors like Alan Coulter, who had been the episode before he came from Sopranos, John David Coles, and he or friends. We started getting kind of more seasoned, not necessarily episodic TV directors either,

like a kind of cut above, you know, that HBO was kind of cultivating these relationships with these directors. And they really made a mark, each one, in the way they shot the show. Yes, in their style and approach. Absolutely. And you could see it. You could really see it. Definitely. Definitely. And I think it's so interesting because we don't always think of or talk about the directors. We talk about our writers so much. because obviously there are also our executive producers and very close to us and we're, you know, intimately involved in all of it. But our directors also, especially in the beginning,

really made a mark. And John David Cole's definitely one of them. And one of the things I love, which is out of order, but when I, so I go out afterwards to that bar and he films through like a keyhole? He filmed through a pee. No! It was, in this word I can say

because it is the proper word for it. It was like a vagina, right? No way! Yes, look at it. How did I not know? Look at it, it was pee and it was like a vagina. Oh my God! I'm so dense and so Charlotte like... Yeah, and you remember I'm dancing and I remember him

really having some very specific ideas about how I should dance because I was kind of going to do the kind of like Charlotte Goofy dance but he wanted me to do this kind of slow dreamy dance. And I feel like he shot it in slow-mo, which was very cool. Yeah, it was beautiful. And such a creative, very creative. And I remember any time way back then

that we had anything dancing related, even like tangentially dance-ish, Sarah Jessica would get our choreographer to come in because she was so nervous. Because it was like her Broadway self, right? Like she needed direction, like specifics, right? Yes, yes. Oh my god, I'm seeing a picture of this.

What are you seeing? I'm seeing a picture of what he filmed through. I totally see what you're saying. Oh my god. Yes. It's pinkish red, too. I don't know how I missed that. Yes it is. Good Lord, good Lord.

That's hysterical. Wow. Go date John David Coles. Really hysterically funny. Wow. Sometimes I'm very Charlotte. That's a very Charlotte moment that I didn't realize that. I'm sure I was so nervous about the dancing that I just wasn't even like paying attention. Well I don't even think we saw

it. I mean I didn't see it until it aired so I don't even know if we even saw what was being shot at that time. Cool I feel better I feel better. Yes yes because I was not aware. I was not aware for sure. But go him you know that's a great idea. I love it so much. It's very brilliant. Okay, I'm gonna get back to my paper and try to rewatch. Sometimes it's just more fun to talk. So we're at the art and then oh, then okay, it's really funny because they cut to Miranda, who's everyone's at my art opening. That's how the show starts, right? And Miranda's with this guy, Ethan Watson, who is a documentarian, which is going to go into some funny places.

And Samantha sees a guy from her gym there and wants to go pick him up, which she, of course, successfully picks him up. And Carrie wants to leave because she's going somewhere and she doesn't want to tell us where. And she is going to Big's house. And the thing that I love about this, when I rewatched first season, all my listeners know this,

I was kind of horrified by Big because he is so withholding to Carrie. And I hadn't remembered any of that. Also, it was the 90s. And I think we as women were just very used to this, you know, withholding men. It wasn't like something that we would necessarily think about. So from 2025, you look back and you're like, oh my gosh.

But what I love about second season is number one, I feel like he's much more out of his shell. They have broken up. They're kind of slightly getting back together now. I find him so charming and much more like giving in terms of just in the moment with Carrie. But also, I love the voiceover here because as she's sneaking out to go back to Biggs,

she's saying in her voiceover that she doesn't want to tell all of us because she feels bad about it because she knows it's a bad decision because he's a withholding man. And I'm like, yes, see, we just need to name it. I feel better now that it's just straight out. That's who he is. Let's just admit that's who he is. We know this is not smart. That doesn't mean she's not gonna do it.

We all do stupid things. Well, also we all, you know, it's kinda like, if you know what you're getting into and you choose to get into it, then you know, that's empowering too. You know what I mean? Yes. Because it's like, you can always choose not to.

Absolutely. I think that's why I like that she's naming it. Like it's not like she doesn't know. Right. She's saying, I know this is stupid. I know this man may not be able to give me what I want, but I'm going back because we have this incredible connection and I'm so drawn to him.

And whatever she says in her voiceover, it's of course more eloquently said than I just did. But I had such a sigh of relief. Yes, absolutely. I feel better now. Yeah. I can get behind this now in a way that first season I felt a lot of anxiety watching it. Mm-hmm. You know? But of course I know where it goes. But still, in the moment, I was feeling so excited. Yeah. And let's not forget that Big is incredibly handsome and sexy. So let's just not forget that part. 100%. And definitely now.

See, I think that was my other issue was when I looked back at the first season, I didn't really feel that because he's so pulled back that I was like, she's she's so giving and emotionally present. Yes. Yeah. I feel like he's not even sexy to me because he's so covered. You know? Well, you know, for me, I mean, for me, Tamara, you know, I wouldn't waste my time with that

kind of man. You know, I wouldn't waste my time. But, you know, for Carrie, it was what she needed for whatever reason she needed it. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I think for me at the time, and again, complicated by the fact that I was playing Charlotte and Charlotte was always pro big. So as an actor, you don't really give it a critical thought if your character is not

giving it a critical thought. You know, absolutely. Yeah. And you can't judge your character. You can't judge your character. No, you can't judge your character. Your character makes choices and you figure out as an actor how to support those choices.

But you can't stand in judgment, right? Definitely not. Definitely not. So I did not give any kind of critical thought to the big Carrie relationship. But I do love in this episode, when she does confess to us, Charlotte is like, what? I was like, oh, yay. Yay, I'm so glad.

Because a lot of this I don't remember. I remember some things and then some things I have no memory and I'm really just kind of genuinely getting to rewatch it again, which is so much fun because it's so good. So then we go back to the gallery and oh yes, yes, I'm talking about the power of lesbians. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

And I sell out the gallery, which I have never done in my whole life. So Charlotte is doing well at her job because of the ladies, which I love so much. Oh, and then I go back to the storage room and find my, you know, kind of eh date, making out with this young model, which is so ick. But I think that also fuels Charlotte's whole like,

I don't even want to deal with men. I'm just going to be around these powerful women. Exactly. Makes perfect sense. Perfect, perfect sense. Then we go to the flea market. This is a scene that I remember so vividly. And yes, tell me.

And this is the scene that I love. Oh, do you? You tell me what you love. Well, this is exactly where I was going because I love the conversation about what is cheating. Yeah, what I remember about it, I think it's a fantastically written scene. I loved every bit of it.

I love everyone's point of view. But the thing that I remember about it as an actor, this is also John David Cole's making his mark. It's a very complex scene. We're at a flea market. We're looking at things. We are always trying to be realistic, which is sometimes really hard as an actor.

Then we sit down on the bench and have the more in-depth conversation that's begun as we're looking at elements of the flea market. And he is able to shoot that conversation on the bench, which is not easy. But the hardest part was the flea market part, because I remember it was this very elaborate dance, where, you know, different ones of us

would move forward at different times. And Alan Coulter remembers kind of starting this trend with us of like, find the lens, which is hard when there's four of you and then extras, right? They're mixed and you're having to like, oh yeah, I have to move over here so that I'm ready to lean my head forward

when my line is ready and not slow down, right? Because Michael Patrick never wanted you to slow down because it kills the comedy. Right. I remember that being like, oh, can we do it? You know what I'm saying? Like when I look back, I'm like, oh, we're doing it. We're doing it. We're doing it. You know, but it was John David Cole's really kind of upping the game of how to block those scenes so that it's not boring. You know, and it's a dance. I mean, it's choreography, right, at the end of the day, right?

Yes, 100%. And so I love, then they sit down on the bench and then everyone has an excellent point to make, which is that cheating is a very subjective thing. And of course, Samantha, Samantha, everyone keeps reminding Samantha like, well, you think the cheating is fine because you cheat. And she can't really argue with that, which is interesting. She doesn't say a word. She just, she just, she just sips her lemonade. She does. She rips her glasses off at one point,

though, and says something which also I was interested because Carrie and Samantha keep their sunglasses on and Miranda and I don't have our sunglasses on, but I think it's because the sun is behind our head and they couldn't open their eyes looking at us. You know those days? Yes. Where you're just like, I can't open my eyes.

You're squinting into the sun, absolutely. Exactly. And then when she has some important line and she rips them off, you know, because they're large, like glamorous sunglasses. And I remember all of that a lot. But so we sit down and Samantha says men cheat the same reason why dogs lick their balls because they can. It's part of their biology,

which you know, I think that people do still kind of feel and I just feel like that is like such a cop-out. I agree. Wouldn't that be true for women too? Like why can't women cheat? Well, and of course women do. Of course. Yeah, like, like it's such a weird, like outmoded kind of a thing to say, I feel like. I mean, everyone can cheat and some people choose to and some people don't, but there's not really an excuse to say that. But also the line was funny.

It was funny. Of course. The line was no good point. Good point, good point, good point, good point. And then Carrie points out that women cheat too, of course, like we're saying. And then it's different because we aren't driven by testosterone. But I mean, testosterone to me is like a very lame reason

to cheat. I just feel like, do you have a brain? Do you have a brain? I think the answer is yes. Let's use the brain, you know? In a perfect world, that would be fantastic. So, so true. So, so true. And then, so we all have our different, you know, viewpoints on the cheating.

And of course, Charlotte is like, no, you know, it's not okay, which I agree it's not okay. But I mean, life is complicated, of course. And then Carrie says, someone's definition of what constitutes cheating is in direct proportion to how much they themselves want to cheat, which is pretty funny. Yes. And very relevant, I think, to the big conversation, because that's kind of part of her struggle with big.

You know, there was the scene in the first season where he tells her he has a work thing, and then she sees him out to dinner with the woman after she spent like eight days at home with him, which to me, I would just be done, I think. I mean, I don't really know, I guess, but you know what I'm saying? I mean, that seems a struggle. That seems a struggle to me.

That's part of why I didn't like big in the beginning, but it's okay. I'm working through it. And. Um. And. And. And. And. And. And.

And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And.

And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And.

And. And. And. And. And. And. writing in like a torn t-shirt and her underwear, like it's so quintessential. I feel like this is the phase of the show where we're really solidifying certain kind of elements of what will be known as iconic in the show. We don't really know that at the time, of course, but like, you know, we're, I think, feeling bolder about our choices, you know? Yeah.

She's sitting there, she's not glamorous, but she's also not totally clothed. It's very intimate. It's her thoughts, you know, I just, there's so many things that I love about it. Um, so she's sitting there writing and she's wondering, um, was Samantha Wright is cheating like the proverbial tree in the forest? Oh, this is so good. That if it doesn't exist, if there's no one around to catch you,

is it a gravity free world of anything goes and what constitutes cheating? Really good questions. Yes. And really hard to answer even still. Absolutely. I agree. What do you think?

I mean, does it matter if no one catches you? I think it matters. Well, I think it matters if you are someone with any kind of conscience. You know, and that doesn't mean you won't do it, but you know. But you'll feel bad. It'll be an issue for you. You'll carry it.

I mean, you'll carry it, you know. Whether you get caught or. It'll be an issue for you. You'll carry it I mean you carry it, you know whether you get caught or not whether you get caught or not. Yeah, absolutely I agree 100% so then we see Samantha. She goes to the gym She has this kind of adorable thing with this big beefy guy. Oh my gosh. Well, he was the trainer, right? He was the trainer and she was training with him and He's the trainer and she gets him to train her and it's kind of very, you know, sexually laden at the gym and then more happens later and it just made me laugh. Right. Because, man, I relate to all that stuff.

Don't get me started. They were back with me in the gallery the next morning and you guys come to get the painting, which is adorable and I find out that you're no longer a couple, but you're good friends, which I really like. And this is so true when you look at gay women, I think. And gay men too. Gay men too, that's right.

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I mean, it may not be always the case, but certainly I have friends who have remained friends with their exes and good friends with their exes. They socialize together. Yeah.

I love that so much. And what a perfect world that would be if we could all be like that. And that's when you guys ask me out for drinks. Oh, and this is when I go out all night and dance, I think. And I make wonderful new friends, which is really fun. And then Miranda's on this date with this guy, Ethan. Oh, my good lord. So they're, oh, I just love this scene.

They're walking down the beautiful village streets at night, and he's talking in depth about Shoa versus Schindler's List. Right. Right. And she has the absolute most serious face. And she is quiet absolute most serious face, and she is quiet for like an entire block,

which literally never happens with Miranda. Like she just has no expression on her face and nothing to say as this guy rattles on, rattles on, rattles on, but passionately rattling on. And then she just kisses him, which is so cute. Yes. And very innocent in a way. And then they end up back at his apartment,

they're making out, making out, and then he turned on the TV onto a porn tape, as she calls it. He, he, he, that, and he says, is this okay? And she's like, sure. And then come to find out that this is like a deal breaker for him that it must have porn. But yeah, I think this whole thing is funny

because at that point in time, I don't think that porn had kind of reached the, you know, kind of common ground that it is now where like porn, you're just like, oh yeah, porn. You know what I mean? Right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, it hadn't happened yet.

Like this guy had porn tapes that he had ready in his TV. And what he later says to her, which I think is kind of heartbreaking and sad, when she's like, no, I want you to be having sex with me, not these women on the television. And he goes, well, but I just met you and some of these women on the television I've had relationships with for years. Yeah. You just feel bad for that guy. Yeah. Yeah.

He has a porn addiction. He totally has a porn addiction. Yeah. You just feel bad for that guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He has a porn addiction. He totally has a porn addiction and it's kind of pathetic, but at the same time, there are so many people who have relationships that are, you know, virtual, if you will. Yeah. You know, on that level. You know what I mean? Yeah. I know. It was ahead of its time that episode, I think.

It really was. It really was. It really was. I mean, really, like so much so that you have to think back, like, oh, yeah, porn used to be shocking. Exactly. And you know what? I'm going to digress for a minute just to go back

to the cheating part. What I also loved about the exploration of cheating was that Carrie felt like she was cheating on her friends with Big, you know? And that's another, that was just another little nice nuance about. I know, I love that too. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think it's so good, the confession scene, which we're coming up on pretty soon. Well, first of all, we have Carrie at Biggs, which, oh my God, this scene, I love so much.

She's cooking for him, which is not her thing. And he's got that black turtleneck on. And this is like very, this is a theme that's gonna go on for quite some time with them. Like into the movies, where they cook and they dance at one point, do you remember this? Like it's so beautiful to see the first version of it. And they both look so great.

And you can tell because, you know, when you've broken up with someone and then you get back together, it's, like, so fantastic in the beginning. In the beginning. Just to look at them. You know, like, she just looking at him with just such passion and, you know,

but she's trying to keep a lid on it. But it's, like, so good. It just, I thought it was fantastic and so great to see them. And he also is just so much more fun than he used to be. Like he's so much more relaxed, you know? And so I was pleased for her. I feel like pleased for, for Carrie in the scene. But, but, oh yeah, they're all,

then we do quickly kind of get back to her trying to get him to say something, which of course he doesn't want to basically. Do you know what I mean? Which is kind of annoying. And I mean, I guess, like you said, she has chosen to go back. So it is, you know, she is more kind of aware of her choices and that she is going to get in here and try again. But I'm also like, oh, Lord, because the whole debate is,

should they go out in public? Should they tell their friends? And she says, should they make it official? She says, well, what are you gonna tell your friends? And he says, nothing, like she's an idiot, right? Because of course he's not gonna talk to his friends about her. And she goes, oh right, because you have no friends.

Which I thought was a very good comeback. And then he goes, well, what would you want me to tell them? Like it's all very familiar, I have to say, in terms of guys, you know? Ay, ay, ay. So then we have this scene walking. Oh, god! Oh, this is so good.

She's walking on the street after she was at Biggs, and she runs into Miranda at 7 in the morning. Oh, yes, the walk of shame. Yes, the walk of shame. And she fully lies to Miranda that whole scene. And I was like, wow, first of all, I can't believe Miranda fell for this. Well, that's what I was gonna say.

Right? And I was like, did she really buy that? Really? I know, I know, I know. I know, I felt the same way. I mean, I think it's because, I think it's because some time has passed, right, that Carrie has not been with Big. So we wouldn't be thinking like, oh, Big,

you know what I mean? And Miranda wouldn't be thinking, oh, Big. But I think Miranda would have been thinking like someone else. Like- Of course, you're coming from somebody's apartment. You're not coming from the dentist, like really? And you're not on your way to the dentist either.

No, like it's crazy, it's crazy, but it's kind of adorable also at the same time. And of course, Miranda has her porn addiction boyfriend on her mind. So she talks about that. Then we go to Samantha, this scene adorable. His name is Thor, the trainer. And the trainer basically says that he doesn't,

that he's never slept with a client before. This is a fantasy of his. And she's like, oh, fantastic. And then he says, you know, let's shower. Cause I think they've just come from the gym, right? So they go in the shower. He's washing her legs, which is quite fascinating. And then he says, are you a dirty girl?

And they cut to Kim and she has just the best look on her face. She just looks up. She's like, well, that depends how you define it, I guess. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then she says, oh, had I known

we were going to be doing this, I would have shaved my legs, something like that. And he goes, oh, well, you know, I can do that. Like, it seems very organic how it happens, you know? Right, right. So he's shaving her legs, which she seems to find sensual. Like, it seems very organic how it happens, you know? Right, right. So he's shaving her legs, which she seems to find sensual. I have never let a man shave my legs.

I was, I'd be scared they were going to cut me. I mean, I was like, wow, she's very trusting. Well, I never thought of it as foreplay, so I don't know. No, no, I never would think of it as foreplay or even just like something that I would be like, oh yes, go ahead. I don't think I would do that. I don't think I would do that. I don't think I would do that. I'd be very scared that I would have a lot of cuts on my legs and, uh, private

parts because as he goes up, he's like, right? Yes. I mean, geez, low waist. So he's going up her leg and he says something like, you know, I don't even know if he asked, he just keeps going and she looks like it's exciting, which I'm just like, ah, I'm scared. So he, we find out later, cuts a lightning bolt into her pubic hair.

And the thing that I love the most about this is that she then goes and talks to Miranda and Carrie about, I guess Carrie's in the bathroom at her apartment, but she's telling Miranda about it. And she says something to the effect of, you know, this is a big thing now. People are really, you know, changing how they take care of that area down there. And man, is that an understatement. Like, this was the beginning, okay, of that whole waxing situation

that we went through for quite some time. And then I thought it went away. And then it seems like it's back. I'm not really sure. I would love for some young ladies to tell me how they feel about it on the Instagram page. dealer or enjoy over 3000 games to choose from like cash eruption. UFC gold lifts, make instant deposits or same day withdrawals. Download the BenMGM Ontario app today. Visit BenMGM.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BenMGM operates pursuant to an operating

agreement with iGaming Ontario. The Extravision Podcast is your home for reactions, recaps, and round table debates on the biggest pop culture moments of the summer. We drop four episodes a week, and every Friday we're popping out the popcorn and breaking down that weekend's big box office draws, including Superman and Sinners.

Rosie Sinners, what an incredible cinema experience. I went in and I was expecting Coogler, I was expecting horror. What I didn't expect, there was just this unbelievable, sprawling cinematography. This is a movie that gets better the more you think about it. From Star Wars to Fantastic Four,

we're covering all the biggest movies, shows and stories in fandom, including interviews with none other than Superman and Lois Lane themselves, To Fantastic Four, we're covering all the biggest movies, shows, and stories in fandom, including interviews with none other than Superman and Lois Lane themselves, David Corrin Sweat and Rachel Brosnahan. We haven't seen the film yet. We haven't seen it. We're waiting to see it at the premiere because we want that full experience with the crowd

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And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's, Teddy escapes, blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you. The story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president?

Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. -♪ America history is full of wise people. Well, women said something like, you know, 99.99% of war is diarrhea and 1% is glory. Those founding fathers were gossipy AF and they loved to cut each other down.

I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, the show where you send us your questions about American history and I find the answers, including the nuggets of wisdom our history has to offer. Hamilton pauses and then he says, the greatest man that ever lived was Julius Caesar. And Jefferson writes in his diary, this proves that Hamilton is for a dictator based on corruption.

My favorite line was what Neil Armstrong said, it would have been harder to fake it than to do it. Listen to American History Hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kelly Harnett spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. I'm 100% innocent. While behind bars, she learned the law from scratch. 100% innocent. While behind bars, she learned the law from scratch.

Because, oh, God, her and that jailhouse lawyer. And as she fought for herself, she also became a lifeline for the women locked up alongside her. It's supposed to have been faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her. So many of these women had lived the same stories. I said, were you a victim of domestic violence? And she was like, yeah.

But maybe Kelly could change the ending. I said, how many people have gotten other incarcerated individuals out of here? I'm going to be the first one to do that. This is the story of Kelly Harnett, a woman who spent 12 years fighting not just for her own freedom, but her girlfriends too. I think I have a mission from God to save souls by getting people out of prison. The Girlfriends, Jailhouse Lawyer. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So she's telling they're in Carrie's apartment.

Oh God, I forgot about this scene. Carrie's in the bathroom. She's not coming out. Samantha and Miranda are discussing this shaving situation. And then I show up in my headband and also a weird tube top. I'm like, whoa, so 90s. Very rare, very rare. I have a coat over it, thank God. And at a certain point, Carrie has not come out of the bathroom. So they're like, what are you doing? Is everything okay in there?

And she says, no, actually not. You know, I have this new diaphragm and it stuck. I remember this so well because there was a lot of stress about this. There's a lot of conversation and stress. If this would ever happen in life, I believe that one of the writers did have a story that it was based on, which was always our thing that the writers had to have some personal experience or a friend with personal experience for it to be considered plausible and enough to be in the show.

Yes. They were there advocating, yes, this could happen. So it is decided that Samantha will be the one to go into the bathroom and help her. All of us are like, oh, yeah, I have like a crazy look on my face. Then it's over, but it was really

something that people do seem to remember, and I think it's really funny and great. Yeah. I don't know if it's realistic or not, And I think it's really funny and great, you know? Yeah. I don't know if it's realistic or not, but I think it's funny and great. Well, it's like, you know, what will your friends do for you?

That's right. That's exactly right. That's right. And they should do whatever you need. And Samantha is there for her, you know? That's right. Yeah. So then we walked down the street and it's one of the first walk-in talks

that I remember with all four of us walking multiple blocks and having an important scene. And that came to be also a staple and so hard to do because everyone has to be perfect in the master. And that might take many, many blocks and you have to walk and then you have to stop and go back. Right. And do it again. And you have to hope that no one drives by and honks at you. Right.

And usually it's the wee hours, you know, that we're doing those, which is why there's like no one out. Especially in Times Square. Yep. Which is where that scene takes place. Exactly, exactly. And you couldn't generally,

I don't remember this particular time, but I remember later on, we filmed in Times Square and you couldn't start till 10 or 11 at night. They wouldn't give you a permit. So that's when you're beginning those scenes. That's right. So we would be there all night. All night.

All the night long. All the night long. All the night long, that was the job. So this is when she, Carrie, confesses to us that she was with Big and we all stop and we're just like, what? And we say all kinds of really funny, funny things. She tells him about Big, they get upset.

We say our opinions. He's an a**hole. I say that. I say, Carrie, he was such an a**hole to you. So I'm like, yes, Charlotte, yes, that's great. And then we say, you know, why are you sneaking around behind us? And then Carrie walks away because we're so upset. And then she goes back to her apartment and she says, the problem is my friends are right. And you see her walking back and forth kind of struggling inside herself

with the fact that she knows that we're right. But that doesn't mean that she doesn't want to do it, which I think is so relatable, obviously. We all do things that we are not 100% about, but we're still driven to do them. That's how life is. Then we go to Charlotte, going to that very, very fancy mansion with that crazy statue with all the lesbians.

Eee! Which I love so much. And I'm sure that this Patti Aston, who's supposed to be like the queen bee of the power lesbians, I'm sure she was based on someone but I don't know who Because I think Darren wrote this episode. I should check back. I'm pretty sure Darren wrote it and I love it I love everything about it that she's you know, so powerful and so rich and it's only women in this place Right. Love it. And then I finally meet

Patty and then oh tell you're right. It's not Veil It's tell you're right and they're like, oh her house and tell you're right. It's so amazing and I'm like, oh, tell your ride, it's not Veil, it's tell your ride. And they're like, oh, her house in Tell Your Ride is so amazing. And I'm like, oh, I'd love to go. Cause I'm just like, yeah, yeah, I wanna be a part of this group. And then Patty asks if I'm gay. That's a very funny way that my producers wrote this down.

And Charlotte says that I'm not. And then I say, you know, but I just love the company of all the women and it's so safe and warm. Which is I say, you know, but I just love the company of all the women and it's so safe and warm. Which is so true. It's so true. And then Patty's just like, no, if you don't eat the pee, you can't be in the group, basically.

And Charlotte looks really sad. Yes. Then, oh, poor Samantha goes to the steam room at the gym and there's a naked lady in there with a lightning bolt shaved into her private area. And the lady is all mad and she gets up and she says he's such an asshole or some such. And then, you know, Samantha realizes that, yeah, she, it was all an act on this trainer's part. He was just going through all the clients.

Right. Right. Never a good feeling, even for Samantha. Then Miranda is back at the porn guy and she's decided that she's had enough. She asks him to turn it off. This is when she says, it's either them on the TV or me. And he says, you know, the ladies on the TV I've had a relationship with for years. And it's just kind of sad.

And she leaves and he turns the TV back on. Yes, he does. Gosh, I wonder what happened to him. Then we cut to this beautiful scene with Carrie and Big, and they're dancing and I don't know where they're dancing. It's such a glorious old school. That's a supper club. That was such a staple in New York City. Absolutely. So great. So great

They're dancing beautifully. There's not many people there It's kind of intimate and there she's talking again about how you know, are they seeing each other again officially and He's like, what does it even mean? And then he says well Why don't you tell me why we broke up in the first place? And she says this great monologue that he doesn't hear, but we hear, the audience hears about how, you know, could he ever love her the way she wants to be loved? You know, it's really deep.

But then she says, but I took the easy way out and I said, I guess I was afraid. And I thought that was so good. And I feel like I have done that in life so many times. You're basically putting it on yourself. You know, what's actually questions you have about them, you're making it seem like it's your own, your own issue. Yeah, your own, you're responsible. Right, you're responsible for it. It's about your lack of strength or... Insecurities. Your fears, your insecurities, absolutely.

Which kind of hurt me to watch that. And then he says, but I did miss you a lot. And that seems to make her happy, you know? And then she says, did you cry? Which I love so much. And he says, no, but I did listen to a lot of Sinatra. Right, right, right, right, right, right.

Which is so him. And like, the thing that I think about is like, that is his way of answering. That's what he can do. You know what I'm saying? He can't cry and he certainly can't tell her that he cried. But he can tell her, I listen to a lot of Sinatra. That is who that man is.

Right? Right. And she wants to be there with him. Exactly. And I think that's good. So I love the episode so much. And I just think it's beautiful. And so there's such a kind of an innocence about it. And I just think it's beautiful.

And so, there's such a kind of an innocence about it, even though we're dealing with these topics, you know, this porn, this and that, and shaving public, public areas, whatever. Like things like this, but at the same time, there's like a sweetness about it that that I I love to see and it takes me back to kind of the the newness of it all as a show, you know. It's nice. It's a good one. I'm so happy that you were on it with me. I was so happy to do it. It was it was a pleasure. It was such a joy to do. So much fun. It was so much fun. I know. I wish Charlotte could have

just been a little bit bolder and stayed in that group a little longer do. So much fun. It was so much fun. I know. I wish Charlotte could have just been a little bit bolder and stayed in that group a little longer somehow. That's right. You know, one thing we miss, one of the friends asked her if she told the lesbian she was not a lesbian. And she was like, well, you know, no, it doesn't matter. Right? Yeah.

I love that. I love that. No, I know. And they're so right where they're like, no, you need to tell them you're leading them along. And she looks like, what? I can actually be leading women along? And wait, also, doesn't Miranda have something really funny

where she says, like, when I was 14, I kissed this girl blah blah blah and it was really fun. I was like, oh my God, did we remember that? And just like that? I don't think we did. Because, yes, there was really fun. I was like, oh my God, did we remember that? And just like that, I don't think we did. Cause yes, there was something there. Should have taken Miranda to the power lesbians party. Little did we know where we would all be going.

Many years later. Many years later. So many years later, which is so fabulous. Congratulations to you all. Thank you. We're so lucky. Yeah. I mean, you never thought, when you first signed onto that show, that the legacy that is created. No, we never would have dreamt. Never. It's amazing. It is amazing. And we're so thankful to the fans, really, you know, because we could have gotten canceled. I mean, anything could have happened. You don't know. Yes, you know this business.

I mean, even if the show was popular, if new leadership comes into a company and they decide, well, that's not my baby. You know, I want to put something else there. You know, you're out. So it's really incredible. Many a leadership also. Yes. So it's really incredible. We've been through many a leadership also. Yes. So that's fantastic. It is, it is, it is. And also I just remember so many things about like,

like I remember there was a time where they said, the show's not gonna make a disindication probably because we were HBO, which didn't have a track record in this way. And partly because they said, you know, women-led shows don't travel. And then we became this huge international. Yes. Right?

Yes. So many rules, so-called rules, that we ended up breaking, thank God. Right. And then they very quickly forget, and then the next thing comes along and breaks them, and they're like, oh my God. And they're like, no, you guys, like, there's this,

and then there's this, and then there's this, like, Oh my God. And they're like, no, you guys, like there's this and then there's this and there's this, like, Oh my gosh. But it's hard to change things. It is, but something always comes along. I mean, when you say that, you know, I think about Black Panther and I think about the myth of how, you know, black led films, et cetera, don't do well internationally or whatever, you know, and then Black Panther comes along and just blows it out of the water. Yeah, and then look at Sinners. And now Sinners, and now Sinners,

and now Sinners, you know, which is just incredible. And then again, they're like, oh my God, and you're like, no, not oh my God. Like it's a surprise. You know, unfortunately, what we have and have had now is we don't need to necessarily rely on the marketing departments of the studios because that's where black-led things or women-led things get stuck because they don't put the finances behind marketing it, you know?

And so, now that we have social media and the word of mouth is now, you know, digital and all over the world, then, you know, they're not necessarily in control anymore how a film or a TV show is received because the audience really has the steering wheel. So I think that's amazing. I think that's a really good point. I think the thing that's still frustrating to me

is when you're pitching the things. They're like, hmm, hmm, hmm. And you're like, you guys, come on. And that boils down to leadership. Who's making the decisions, you know, and getting more women, more people of color in leadership positions who can green light stuff, as we know.

Totally. And also there is the thing now too, where you can also make your own thing. It may not be in such a huge way, right? But as a calling card, as a way to get your foot in the door, you can create your own content in one way or another. Absolutely. And people are doing it now with their cell phones.

So yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. All right. I like that happy note to end on. It's been so great having you. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure going down memory lane with you. It was a pleasure. I love to see you.

Sending love to you in New York. Continue on. I will be watching. Thank you. Actually, I'm in Atlanta because I'm shooting the new daytime drama Beyond the Gates. So that's what's keeping me here. Yes. Amazing.

Are you baking? Baking? Yes. It's keeping me here. Yes. Amazing. Are you baking? Baking? Is it hot? It's 1,000 degrees. Yeah, I'm from South Carolina. So my mom has been keeping me updated on the temperature. Well, the temperature is the same here as it is in New York right now. Oh, wow.

Yeah, it's like 100 degrees. It's 100 degrees in both places. Oh, my gosh. Well, I would never know you look fresh as a daisy. Thank you. That's because I'm inside in air conditioning. Love it, love it, love it, love it. Well, I would never know you look fresh as a daisy. Thank you. That's cause I'm inside and air conditioning. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Well, good luck on this job. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks for being with me. It's been a joy.

Oh, good. Good. Good. I look forward. Okay. Till next time. Yes. Bye. Bye-bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. with the heart of women's sports. In just one year, the network has launched 15 shows and built a community united by passion. Podcasts that amplify the voices of women in sports. Thank you for supporting I Heart Women's Sports

and our founding sponsors, Elf Beauty, Capital One, and Novartis. Just open the free I Heart app and search I Heart Women's Sports to listen now. This summer on the X-Ray Vision podcast, we're diving deep into the summer's biggest movies from Jurassic World Rebirth to Fantastic Four. Plus, we'll talk to the stars of Superman. Is there a part of the Lois Lane costume that helped you feel like you were really stepping into her?

It was the necklace for me. Nobody's really asked that before, so thank you. Listen to X-Ray Vision on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart radio app, search X-Ray Vision, and listen now. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me

this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy Machine took control. Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

Listen to United States of Kennedy's on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The Girlfriends is back with a new season, and this time I'm telling you the story of Kelly Harnett. Kelly spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. As she fought for her freedom, she taught herself the law. He goes, oh God, Harnett, jailhouse lawyer. And became a beacon of hope

for the women locked up alongside her. You're supposed to have faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her. I think I was put here to save souls by getting people out of prison. The Girlfriends, Jailhouse Lawyer. Listen on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.